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A02848 An ansvver to the first part of a certaine conference, concerning succession, published not long since vnder the name of R. Dolman Hayward, John, Sir, 1564?-1627. 1603 (1603) STC 12988; ESTC S103906 98,388 178

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not bene so foolishly eyther suspitious or fonde that when King Richard sent for him they refused to commit him into his Vncles hands But after the death of king Richard his brother Iohn seized vpon his treasure in Normandie came ouer into England and in an assembly onely of the Nobilitie was crowned king Of these many he wonne with such liberall protestations and promises as men carelesse of their word are wont to bestowe others were abused by the perswasions of Hubert Archbishop of Canterburie and a fewe others saith Polydore not well aduised Nic. Triuet saith that Iohn pretended for his title not the election of the people but propinquitie of bloud and the testament of king Richard The same also is affirmed by Walsingham And this is the question betweene the Vncle and the Nephewe of which I shall haue occasion to speake hereafter But Polydore saith that diuers noble men did account this to be a fraudulent iniustice and therevpon did ominate those euils which afterward did ensue And when the Archbishop was charged that vnder colour of reason partly subborned and partly weake he had bene the occasion of all those mischiefes Polydore saith that he was both grieued and ashamed at nothing more Rog. Wenden affirmeth that he excused himselfe that he did it vpon oracles and by the gift of prophesie King Iohn hauing locked himselfe into the saddle of state made one wrong which he had done to be the cause of a greater wrong by murthering his Nephew Arthur Duke of Britane whose inheritāce he did vniustly vsurpe For this fact the French king depriued him of all the landes which he helde in fee of the crowne of France prosecuted the sentence to effect After this as men are easily imboldened against an vsurper when once he declineth eyther in reputation or in state diuers of the Nobilitie especially they of the North confederated against him but being neither able to endure his warre nor willing to repose trust in his peace they cōtracted with Lewis the French kings sonne to take vpon him to be their king And so it often happeneth in ciuill contentions that they who are weakest do runne with a naturall rashnesse to call in a third Lewes being arriued vpon the coast of Kent the Nobilitie of that faction came and sware alleageance vnto him The Londoners also many vpon an ordinarie desire to haue new kings others for feare and ●ome for company ioyned to the reuolt Hereof a lamentable presence of all miseries did arise whereby as well the libertie as the dignitie of the Realme were brought to a neare and narrowe iumpe The poore people naked both of helpe and hope stood at the curtesie and pleasure of the men of armes the libertie of warre making all things lawfull to the furie of the strongest The Nobilitie feeling much and fearing more the insolencie of the French Natiō who as Vicount Melin a noble mā of France confessed at his death had sworne the extirpation of all the noble bloud in the Realme began to deuise how they might returne into the alleageance of king Iohn in so much as a litle before his death Letters were b●ought vnto him from certaine of his Barons to the number of fortie who desired to be receiued againe into his peace But after his death which happily did happen within fiue moneths after the arriuall of the French both their hatred and their feare being at an ende they were all as readie to cast out Lewes as they had bene rash to call him in This History you corrupt with verie many odious vntruthes which are more harsh to a well tuned eare then the crashing of teeth or the grating of copper As namely in affirming that Arthur was excluded and Iohn crowned King by the states of the Realme that God did more defend this act of the Common-wealth then the iust title of Arthur that by the same states king Iohn was reiected Prince Hēry his sonne depriued and Lewes of France chosen to be king that the same states recalled their sentence against Prince Henry disanulling their oathe and alleageance made vnto Lewes A shamelesse tongue gouerned by a deceitfull minde can easily call faction the Common wealth rebellion a iust and iudiciall proceeding open an often periurie an orderly reuoking of a sentence Gods secret iudgement in permitting iniustice to preuaile a plain defence and allowance thereof Of the diuision of the houses of Lancastar and Yorke it is but little that you write whereto I haue fully answered before you do wisely to giue a light touch to this example it is so hotte that it will scalde your throate King Henry the fourth more caried by cursed ambition then either by necessitie or right laide an vniust gripe vpon the Realme which afterward he did beautifie with the counterfeit titles of conquest and election So violent are the desires of Princes to imbrace streined titles by whiche they may disturbe the states of other not remembring that right may be troaden downe but not troaden out hauing her secret both meanes to support and seasons to reuiue her For although the lawfull successor did warily strike saile to the tempest because neither the time running nor the opportunitie present which are the guiders of actions did consent as then to enter into enterprise Yet so soone as one heare of occasion was offered his progenie did set vp a most doubtfull warre wherein thirteene battailes were executed by English-men only and aboue fourescore Princes of the royall blood slaine Loe now the smiling successe of these vsurpations loe what a deare purchase of repentance they did cause Were it not that passion doth blind men not only in desire but in hope they might suffice to make vs aduised to keepe rather the knowne beaten way with safetie then vpon euery giddie and brainlesse warrant to engulphe our selues in those passages wherein so many haue perished before vs. It belongeth to wise men to auoide mischies and it is the reward of fooles to lament them Goe too then conclude if you please that the people are not bound to admit him to the Crowne who is the next successor by propinquitie of blood but rather to weigh whether it is like that hee will performe his charge or no. Conclude this I say to be your opinion and that it seemeth to you to be conforme to all reason lawe religion pietie wisedome and policie and to the custome of all Common wealthes in the world and I wil assuredly conclude against you that you prate without either warrant or weight To the ninth Chapter which beareth title VVhat are the principall points which a Common-wealth ought to respect in admitting or excluding any Prince wherein is handled largely also of the diuersitie of religions and other such causes IN this passage you handle what cause is sufficient either to keepe in or to cast the next in blood out of state In which question you determine that God doth
sort to excuse them They are the best that your starued both cause and conceipt can possibly affoord and you haue also some fellowes in your folly Heliogabalus did solemnely ioyne the statues of the Sunne and of the Moone in mariage together Nero was maried to a man and tooke also a man to his wife The Venetians doe yearely vpon Ascention day by a ring and other ceremonies contract mariage with the sea But now in earnest men do dye whensoeuer it pleaseth God to call them but it is a Maxime in the common law of England Rex nunquam moritur The king is alwaies actually in life In Fraunce also the same custome hath bene obserued and for more assurance it was expresly enacted vnder Charles the fifth That after the death of any king his eldest sonne should incontinently succeede For which cause the Parliamēt court of Paris doth accompanie the funeral obsequies of those that haue bene their kings not in mourning attire but in scarlet the true ensigne of the neuer-dying Maiestie of the Crowne In regard of this certaine and incontinent succession the Glossographer vpon the Decrees noteth That the sonne of a king may be called King during the life of his father as wanting nothing but administration wherein he is followed with great applause by Baldus Panormitane Iason Carol. Ruinus Andreas Iserna Martinus Card. Alexander Albericus Fed. Barbatius Philip Decius Ant. Corsetta Fra. Luca Matthe Afflict And the same also doth Sernius note out of Virgil where he saith of Ascanius Regemque requirunt his father Aeneas being yet aliue But so soone as the king departeth out of life the royaltie is presently transferred to the next successor according to the lawes and customes of our Realme All Writs go foorth in his name all course of iustice is exercised all Offices are held by his authoritie all states all persons are bound to beare to him alleageance not vnder supposall of approbation when hee shall be crowned according to your dull and drowsie coniecture but as being the true Soueraigne king of the Realme He that knoweth not this may in regard of the affaires of our state ioyne himself to S. Anthony in glorying in his ignorance professing that he knoweth nothing Queene Mary raigned three mon●ths before she was crowned in which space the Duke of Northumberland and others were condemned and executed for treason for treason I say which they had committed before she was proclaimed Queene King Edward the first was in Palestina when his father dyed in which his absence the Nobilitie and Prelates of the Realme assembled at London and did acknowledge him for their king In his returne homeward he did homage to the French king for the lands which he held of him in France He also repressed certaine rebels of Gascoine amongst whom Gasco of Bierne appealed to the court of the king of Fraunce where king Edward had iudgement that Gasco had committed treason and therupon he was deliuered to the pleasure of king Edward And this hapned before his coronation which was a yeare and nine mon●ths after he began to raigne King Henry the sixth was crowned in the eighth yeare of his raigne and in the meane space not onely his subiectes did both professe and beare alleageance but the King of Scottes also did sweare homage vnto him What neede I giue any more either instance or argument in that which is the cleare lawe the vncontroulled custome of the Realme Against which notwithstanding your weather-beatē forehead doth not blush to oppose a blind opinion that heires apparant are not true kings although their titles be iust and their predecessors dead This you labour to prooue by a few drye coniectures but especially and aboue all others you say because the Realme is asked three times at euery coronation whether they will haue such a man to be their king or no. First wee haue good reason to require better proofe of this question then your bare word secondly although we admit it to be true yet seeing the aunswer is not made by the estates of the Realme assembled in parliament but by a confused concurse necessarie Officers excepted of all sorts both of age and sexe it is for ceremonie only not of force either to giue or to increase any right Another of your arguments is for that the Prince doth first sweare to gouerne well and iustly before the subiects take their oath of alleageance which argueth that before they were not bound And further you affirme that it happened onely to king Henry the fifth among his predecessors to haue fealtie done vnto him before hee was crowned and had taken his oath I confesse indeed that Polydore and St●w haue written so but you might easily haue found that they write not true the one of them being a meere straunger in our state the other a man more to be commended for indeuour then for art King Iohn being in Normandie when his brother dyed sent into England Hubert Archbishop of Canterburie VVilliam Marshall Earle of Strigvile and Geoffrie Fitzpeter Lord chiefe ●ustice who assembled the States of the Realme at Northhampton and tooke of them an oath of obedience to the new king Also king Henry the third caused the Citizens of London the Guardians of the Cinque-ports and diuers others to sweare fealtie to Prince Edward his sonne who being in Palestina when his father died the Nobilitie and Prelates of the Realme assembled in the new temple at London and did acknowledge him for their king And in like manner king Edward the third tooke an oath of all the Nobilitie of the Realme of faith after his death to Richard Prince of Wales and so did king Henry the first for his daughter Mawde and her yong sonne Henry After the death of king Henry the fifth that subiects did often sweare alleageance before the coronation and oath of the king you had neither countenance nor conscience to deny but it was neither of these two which did restraine you it proceeded onely from the force of truth which will manifest it selfe whatsoeuer art we vse to disguise it For otherwise what countenance what conscience had you to affirme that it is expresly noted by our English Historiographers That no alleageance is due vnto kings before they bee crowned Who are these Historiographers where doe they so write you that search euery dustie corner of your braines for a fewe ragged reasons to vphold your heresie should not either haue mentioned or omitted such pregnant proofes for in that you affirme and do not expresse them you condemne your selfe by your owne silence If you meane that which you alleadge out of Polydore and Stowe That an oath of fealtie was neuer made before coronation vntill the time of king Henry the fifth it is neither true nor to any such sence If you meane that of Polydore in tearming Henry the fift Prince and not King before he
of France a law was made that bastards should not succeed in the Crowne and yet other bastards of great houses were stil aduowed the French being then of the same opinion with Peleus in Euripides 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Oftentimes many bastardes excell those that are lawfully borne which is verified by Hercules Alexander the great Romulus Timotheus Themistocles Homer Demosthenes Brutus Bion Bartolus Gratian Peter Lombard Peter Comesior Io. Andreas and diuers other of most flourishing name Your examples of Lewes the 6. and Lewes the 11. are not worth a word in answere In the beginning of their raigne you affirme that they had like to haue beene disinherited by the state for the offences of their Father You beare a minde charged with thoughtes vaine busie and bolde without any restreint either of honestie or of discretion For how else could you here also affirme that King Henry the third of England was condemned by his Barons to be disinherited for the fault of his Father It is vsuall with you in all your reports either plainely to breake beyond the boundes of all truth or grossely for I cannot now say artificially to disguise it with many false and deceiueable termes But to conclude for the state of France which is also to exclude whatsoeuer you haue said vnder the raigne of Charles the fift for the better establishment of this right and for cutting of those calamities which accompanie vsurpatiō there was a lawe made that after the death of any King the eldest sonne should incontinently succeede We are now come to our English examples of which you might haue omitted those of the Saxon kings as well for that there could be no setled forme of gouernment in those tumultuous times as also for that our Histories of that age are very imperfect not leading vs in the circumstances either of the maner or occasion of particular actions they declare in grosse what things were done without further opening either how or wherefore But both these doe make for your aduantage for who seeth not that your exāples are chiefly bred in tempestuous times and the obscuritie of Histories will serue for a shadowe to darken your deceit Well let vs take both the times and Histories as they are How will you maintaine that Egbert was not next successour to Briticus by propinquitie of blood Briticus left no children and Egbert was descended of the blood royall as Polydore affirmeth William Malmesbury saith that he was the only man aliue of the royall blood being descended of Inegild the brother of King Ina. How then is it true which you say that Britricus was the last of the roial descēt and if it had beene so indeede the right of election should then haue bene in the state And thus you stumble at euery step you entangle your selfe without truth or ende You snatch at the words of Polydore where he saith He is created king by consent of all which doe imply no other sense but that which a little after he saith That he was saluted king by all So we finde also that the like improper speech was vsed at the coronatiō of Philip the second king of France whereby the Archbishop of Reimes did challenge power in the right of his Sea to make election of the king That Adelstane was illegitimate you follow Polydore a man of no great either industrie or iudgement William Malmesbury accounted Egwina the mother of Adelstane to be the first wife of king Edward his father he termeth her also a noble woman contrary to that which Polydore fableth Henry Huntington Roger Houeden and others write no otherwise of him but as of one that was lawfully borne And in that you english these words of Polydore Rex dicitur Rex a populo salutatur Hee was made king by the people In that you affirme also that for the opinion of his valure hee was preferred before his brethren which were lawfully borne whome you acknowledge to be men of most excellent both expectation and proofe you doe plainly shewe that vse hath made you too open in straining of truth Eldred did first take vpon him but as Protector because of the minoritie of the sonnes of Edmund his elder brother and afterward entred into ful possession of the Crowne But that his nephewes were put backe by the Realme it is your owne idle inuention it was no more the act of the realme then was the vsurpation of King Richard the third That Edwin was deposed from his estate it is inexcusably vntrue Polydore writeth that the Northumbrians and Mercians not fully setled in subiection made a reuolt Malmesburie saith that hee was maimed of a great part of his kingdome by the stroke of which iniurie he ended his life And whereas you write in commendation of King Edgar his next successor that he kept a Nauie of 6600. shippes for defence of the Realme you discouer your defectiue iudgement in embracing such reports for true In that you say that many good men of the Realme were of opinion not to admit the succession of Etheldred after the death of his brother I dare confidently affirme that you doe not only tel but make an vntruth hauing no author either to excuse or countenance the same In that you write also that betweene the death of Edmund Ironside and the raigne of William Conquerour it did plainly appeare what interest the Common-wealth hath to alter titles of succession it doth plainly appeare that both your reason and your conscience is become slauish to your violent desire For what either libertie or power had the Common-wealth vnder the barbarous rage and oppression of the Danes when Canutus had spread the winges of his fortune ouer the whole Realme none hauing either heart or power to oppose against him what choise was then left vnto the people what roome for right what man not banished from sobrietie of sence woulde euer haue saide that hee was admitted king by the whole Parliament and consent of the Realme It is true that after he had both violently and vniustly obtained full possession of the Realme slaine the brother of Edmund Ironside and conueied his children into Sueden he assembled the Nobilitie and caused himselfe to be crowned king but neither the forme nor name of a Parliament was then knowne in Englande and if coronation were sufficient to make a title no king should be accounted to vsurpe Of Harold the first the naturall sonne of Canutus our Histories doe verie differently report Saxo Grammaticus writeth that he was neuer king but that he died before his Father Henry of Huntington reporteth that he was appointed but as Regent for his brother Hardicanutus Others write that apprehending the opportunitie of his brothers absence he inuaded Northumberland and Mercia by force of the Danes who were in Englande wherevpon the Realme was diuided one part holding for Harolde and another for Hardicanutus who was in Denmarke But because hee
kingdome of Persia was setled in succession when Darius the King had foure sonnes Artaxerxes the eldest Cyrus the next and two other Parysatis his wife hauing a desire that Cyrus should succeede in the kingdome pressed in his behalfe the same reason wherewith Xerxes had preuailed before affirming that shee had brought forth Artaxerxes to Darius when hee was a priuate man but Cyrus when he was a king Yet Plutarch writeth that the reason which shee vsed was nothing probable and that the eldest was designed to be King Howsoeuer the right stoode betweene Robert Duke of Normandie and his younger brothers the facte did not stande eyther with the quiet or safetie of the Realme For during the raigne of VVilliam Rufus it was often infested vpon this quarell both with forren armes and ciuill seditions which possessed all places with disorder and many also with fire rapine and bloud the principall effects of a li●entious warre These mischiefes not onely continued but encreased in the raigne of King Henry vntill Robert the eldest brother was taken prisoner in the fielde which put a period to all his attempts So dangerous it is vpon any pretence to put bye the next in succession to the crowne This Henry the first left but one daughter and by her a young sonne named Henry to whom hee appoynted the succession of the Realme and tooke an oath of all the Bishops and likewise of the Nobilitie to remaine faithfull vnto them after his decease Yet you write that because Stephen sonne of Adela sister to King Henry was thought by the states more fit to gouerne he was by them admitted to the Crowne In which assertion you cannot be deceiued you do not erre but your passion doth pull you from your owne knowledge and iudgement Polydore writeth that hee possessed the kingdome contrary to his oath for which cause the mindes of all men were exceedingly mooued some did abhorre and detest the impietie others and those very fewe vnmindefull of periurie did more boldely then honestly allowe it and followed his part Further he saith that he was crowned at Westminster in an assembly of those noble men who were his friendes Nubrigensis affirmeth that violating his oath hee inuaded the kingdome William Malmesburie who liued in King Stephens time saith that he was the first of all lay men next the King of Scots who had made oath to the Empresse Mawde and that he was crowned three Bishops being present of whom one was his brother no Abbot and a very fewe of the Nobilitie Henry Huntington who liued also in the same time saith that by force and impudencie tempting God he inuaded the Crowne Afterward he reporteth that being desirous to haue his sonne Eustace crowned king with him the Bishops withstood it vpon commaundement from the Pope because hee tooke vpō him the kingdom against his oath Roger Houeden writeth that he inuaded the Crowne in manner of a tempest This is the report of those writers who came nearest both to the time and truth of this action whom other Authors do likewise follow Polydore and after him Hollingshead do write that he tooke vpon him the Crowne partly vpon confidence in the power of Theobald his brother Earle of Blois and partly by the aid of Hen. his other brother Bishop of Winchester Walsinghame addeth that Hugh Bigot who had bene King Henries Steward tooke an oath before the Archbishoppe of Canterburie that King Henry at his death appointed Stephen to be his successour Wherevpon the Archbishop and a fewe others were ouer-lightly ledde like men blinded with securitie and of little foresight neuer considering of daungers vntill the meanes of remedie were past You write that they thought they might haue d●ne this with a good conscience for the good of the Realme But what good conscience could they haue in defiling their faith such consciences you endeuour to frame in all men to breake an oathe with as great facilitie as a Squirrell can cracke a Nut. What good also did ensue vnto the Realme The Nobilitie were set into factions the common people into diuision and disorder and as in warres where discipline is at large there insolencies are infinite so in this confusion of the state there was no action which tended not to the ruine thereof the liues and goods of men remaining in continuall pillage Polydore saith Matrons were violated virgins rauished Churches spoiled Townes and Villages rased much cattle destroied innumerable men slaine Into this miserable face of extremities the Realme did fall into the same againe you striue to reduce it But you say that for the ending of these mischiefes the States in a Parliament at Wallingford made an agreement that Stephen should be King during his life and that Henry and his offspring should succeede after his death A man would thinke you had a mint of fables there is no historie which you handle but you defile it with apish vntruthes All our histories agree that king Stephen vnable to range things into better forme did adopt Henry to be his successor The second Huntington faith that this agreement was mediated by the Archb. of Cant. and the Bishop of Winchester who repented him of the furtherance he gaue to the aduancement of king Stephen when he sawe what miseries did therevpon ensue The like doth Houeden report and Holingshead setteth downe the forme of the charter o● agreement betweene them whereby it is euident that it was a transaction betweene them two and no compulsorie act or authoritie of the State I denie not but some Authors affirme that the King assembled the Nobilitie but neyther were they the States of the Realme neither were they assembled to any other ende but to sweare fealtie vnto Henry sauing the kings honour so long as hee should liue After the death of King Richard the first you affirme that the succession was againe broken for that Iohn brother to King Richard was admitted by the States and Arthur Duke of Britaine sonne to Geoffrye elder brother vnto Iohn was against the ordinarie course of succession excluded Well sir I arrest your worde remember this I pray you for I will put you in minde thereof in an other place That which here you affirme to be against the ordinarie course of succession you bring in an other place for proofe that the Vncle hath right before the Nephewe You do wildely wauer in varietie of opinion speaking flatte contraries according as the ague of your passion is eyther in fitte or intermission The Historie of King Iohn standeth thus King Richard the first dying without issue left behinde him a brother named Iohn and a Nephewe called Arthur sonne of Geoffrye who was elder brother vnto Iohn This Arthur was appointed by King Richard to succeede in his estate as Polydore writeth Nubrigensis saith that he should haue bene established by consent of the Nobilitie if the Britaine 's had