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england_n book_n church_n rome_n 3,625 5 7.0618 4 false
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A00797 True relations of sundry conferences had between certaine Protestant doctours and a Iesuite called M. Fisher (then prisoner in London for the Catholique fayth:) togeather with defences of the same. In which is shewed, that there hath alwayes beene, since Christ, a visible church, and in it a visible succession of doctours & pastours, teaching the vnchanged doctrine of fayth, left by Christ and his apostles, in all points necessary to saluation and that not Protestants, but only Roman Catholiques haue had, and can shew such a visible church, and in it such a succesion of pastours and doctours, of whome men may securely learne what pointe of fayth are necessary to saluation. / By A.C. A. C.; Sweet, John, 1570-1632, attributed name.; Floyd, John, 1572-1649, attributed name.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641, attributed name. 1626 (1626) STC 10916.5; ESTC S118355 64,677 92

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desire_v the_o gentle_a reader_n to_o observe_v that_o m._n fisher_n ask_v two_o question_n 1._o why_o protestant_n make_v a_o schism_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n 2._o why_o protestant_n do_v persecute_v roman_a catholic_n to_o the_o first_o of_o these_o question_n be_v about_o schism_n d._n whyte_n answer_v not_o a_o word_n and_o yet_o this_o be_v the_o most_o important_a question_n sufficient_a to_o show_v protestant_n to_o be_v in_o a_o damnable_a state_n unless_o they_o repent_v and_o return_v to_o unity_n with_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o on_o the_o one_o side_n it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o that_o schism_n or_o separation_n of_o one_o self_n from_o church-vnity_n be_v a_o most_o damnable_a sin_n which_o can_v be_v make_v lawful_a for_o any_o cause_n nor_o can_v without_o repentance_n &_o return_v to_o unity_n be_v wash_v away_o even_o with_o martyrdom_n itself_o as_o the_o ancient_a father_n confess_v and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v evident_a &_o even_o confess_v 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formal_a reason_n in_o all_o and_o apply_v sufficient_o by_o the_o same_o mean_n to_o all_o will_v easy_o believe_v all_o but_o so_o long_o as_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v all_o in_o this_o sort_n but_o will_v as_o all_o heretic_n do_v make_v choice_n of_o what_o they_o will_v and_o what_o they_o will_v not_o believe_v without_o rely_v upon_o the_o infallible_a authority_n of_o the_o cath._n church_n they_o can_v have_v that_o one_o soule-saving_a faith_n which_o all_o good_a catholic_a christian_n have_v in_o any_o one_o article_n of_o faith_n for_o although_o they_o believe_v the_o same_o truth_n which_o other_o good_a catholic_n do_v in_o some_o article_n yet_o not_o believe_v they_o for_o the_o same_o formal_a reason_n of_o divine_a revelation_n sufficient_o apply_v by_o infallible_a church-authority_n but_o either_o for_o some_o other_o formal_a reason_n or_o at_o least_o not_o for_o this_o reason_n sufficient_o apply_v they_o can_v be_v say_v to_o have_v one_o and_o the_o same_o infallible_a divine_a faith_n which_o other_o good_a catholic_a christian_n have_v who_o do_v believe_v those_o article_n not_o for_o any_o other_o formal_a reason_n beside_o the_o divine_a revelation_n apply_v sufficient_o and_o make_v know_v to_o they_o not_o by_o their_o own_o fancy_n or_o the_o fallible_a authority_n of_o human_a deduction_n but_o by_o the_o infallible_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n that_o be_v of_o man_n infallible_o assist_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n as_o all_o lawful_o call_v continue_v and_o confirm_v general_n counsel_n be_v assist_v whence_o i_o gather_v that_o although_o every_o thing_n define_v to_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n in_o general_n counsel_n be_v not_o absolute_o necessary_a to_o be_v express_o know_v and_o actual_o believe_v as_o some_o other_o truth_n be_v by_o all_o sort_n yet_o no_o man_n may_v after_o knowledge_n that_o they_o be_v thus_o define_v doubt_v deliberate_o and_o much_o less_o obstinate_o deny_v the_o truth_n of_o any_o thing_n so_o define_v for_o every_o such_o doubt_n and_o denial_n be_v a_o breach_n from_o that_o one_o save_v faith_n which_o other_o good_a christian_n have_v in_o regard_n it_o take_v away_o infallible_a credit_n from_o the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o divine_a revelation_n be_v not_o by_o it_o sufficient_o apply_v it_o can_v according_o to_o the_o ordinary_a course_n of_o god_n providence_n breed_v infallible_a belief_n in_o we_o for_o as_o s._n paul_n rom._n 10._o say_v how_o shall_v they_o believe_v unless_o they_o hear_v how_o shall_v they_o hear_v without_o a_o preacher_n how_o shall_v they_o preach_v to_o wit_n infallible_o unless_o they_o be_v send_v to_o wit_n from_o god_n and_o infallible_o assist_v by_o his_o spirit_n and_o if_o a_o whole_a general_n council_n define_v what_o be_v divine_a truth_n be_v not_o believe_v to_o be_v send_v and_o assist_v by_o god_n spirit_n and_o consequent_o of_o infallible_a credit_n what_o man_n in_o the_o world_n can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v of_o infallible_a credit_n or_o if_o such_o a_o council_n lawful_o call_v continue_v and_o confirm_v may_v err_v in_o define_v any_o one_o divine_a truth_n how_o can_v we_o be_v infallible_o certain_a of_o any_o other_o truth_n define_v by_o it_o for_o if_o it_o may_v err_v in_o one_o why_o not_o in_o another_o and_o another_o and_o so_o in_o all_o or_o how_o can_v we_o according_a to_o the_o ordinary_a course_n be_v infallible_o assure_v that_o it_o err_v in_o one_o and_o not_o in_o another_o when_o it_o equal_o by_o one_o and_o the_o same_o authority_n define_v both_o to_o be_v divine_a truth_n for_o if_o we_o leave_v this_o to_o be_v examine_v by_o any_o private_a man_n this_o examination_n not_o be_v infallible_a have_v need_v to_o be_v examine_v by_o another_o and_o this_o by_o another_o without_o end_n or_o ever_o come_v to_o infallible_a certainty_n necessary_o require_v in_o that_o one_o faith_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o to_o that_o peace_n and_o unity_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o the_o church_n it_o be_v not_o therefore_o as_o the_o chaplain_n will_v persuade_v the_o fault_n of_o counsel_n definition_n but_o the_o pride_n of_o such_o as_o will_v prefer_v and_o not_o submit_v their_o private_a judgement_n that_o lose_v &_o continue_v the_o loss_n of_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o want_n of_o certainty_n in_o that_o one_o aforesaid_a soule-saving_a faith_n the_o which_o how_o far_o it_o do_v extend_v be_v indeed_o as_o the_o chaplain_n pag._n 73._o confess_v no_o work_n for_o his_o pen_n but_o be_v to_o be_v learn_v of_o that_o one_o holy_a catholic_a apostolic_a always_o visible_a and_o infallible_a roman_a church_n of_o which_o the_o lafoy_n once_o doubt_v rest_v now_o full_o satisfy_v that_o in_o it_o she_o may_v learn_v all_o truth_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o that_o out_o of_o it_o there_o be_v no_o ordinary_a mean_n sufficient_a to_o teach_v she_o the_o right_a way_n of_o salvation_n and_o therefore_o the_o jesuit_n may_v well_o say_v as_o he_o do_v in_o the_o relation_n that_o the_o la._n be_v by_o this_o &_o a_o former_a conference_n satisfy_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o roman_a religion_n religion_n the_o chaplain_n upon_o this_o last_o clause_n say_v that_o he_o be_v sure_a she_o will_v be_v better_a able_a to_o answer_v for_o her_o come_n to_o church_n they_o for_o her_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o england_n &_o follow_v the_o superstition_n and_o error_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o he_o neither_o prove_v nor_o can_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o one_o persuade_v especial_o as_o the_o lady_n be_v to_o go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n which_o be_v to_o halt_v on_o both_o side_n to_o serve_v two_o master_n to_o dissemble_v with_o god_n and_o the_o world_n to_o profess_v outward_o a_o religion_n in_o conscience_n know_v to_o be_v false_a neither_o do_v he_o or_o can_v he_o prove_v any_o superstition_n or_o error_n to_o be_v in_o roman_a religion_n but_o by_o presume_v with_o intolerable_a pride_n to_o make_v himself_o or_o some_o of_o his_o fellow_n judge_v of_o controversy_n and_o by_o take_v authority_n to_o censure_v all_o to_o be_v superstition_n and_o error_n which_o suit_v not_o with_o his_o fancy_n although_o it_o be_v general_o hold_v or_o practise_v by_o the_o universal_a church_n which_o in_o s._n augustin_n judgement_n be_v most_o insolent_a madness_n ephes._n 4._o 11._o matt._n 16._o 1●_n luc._n ●2_n 3●_n 〈◊〉_d ●0_n 18._o