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england_n book_n church_n religion_n 2,750 5 5.6458 4 false
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A27046 A third defence of the cause of peace proving 1. the need of our concord, 2. the impossibility of it, on the terms of the present impositions against the accusations and storms of, viz., Mr. John Hinckley, a nameless impleader, a nameless reflector, or Speculum, &c., Mr. John Cheny's second accusation, Mr. Roger L'Strange, justice, &c., the Dialogue between the Pope and a fanatic, J. Varney's phanatic Prophesie / by Richard Baxter. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1681 (1681) Wing B1419; ESTC R647 161,764 297

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its_o execution_n in_o order_n to_o the_o public_a good_a answ_n 1._o i_o have_v answer_v this_o to_o mr._n cheney_n there_o be_v a_o interpretation_n which_o give_v we_o the_o general_a oblige_a sense_n of_o the_o law_n which_o conscience_n must_v judge_v by_o if_o we_o will_v subscribe_v and_o this_o belong_v only_o to_o the_o lawgiver_n as_o i_o have_v prove_v and_o there_o be_v a_o interpretation_n which_o only_o direct_v the_o judicial_a sentence_n in_o this_o or_o that_o man_n particular_a case_n as_o whether_o he_o shall_v be_v punish_v as_o guilty_a or_o not_o and_o this_o be_v it_o that_o belong_v to_o the_o judge_n if_o the_o judge_n will_v put_v a_o false_a sense_n on_o the_o oath_n of_o allegiance_n and_o supremacy_n i_o may_v not_o take_v they_o in_o that_o sense_n their_o expository_n power_n must_v direct_v their_o own_o sentence_n and_o that_o the_o execution_n but_o if_o i_o be_v put_v to_o swear_v or_o subscribe_v myself_o to_o any_o impose_v word_n no_o judge_n can_v 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it_o a_o calumny_n that_o i_o say_v the_o liturgy_n be_v defective_a and_o disorderly_a answ_n i_o do_v in_o 1660._o draw_v up_o a_o catalogue_n of_o the_o mere_a defect_n and_o disorder_n but_o never_o offer_v it_o to_o avoid_v offend_v they_o he_o tell_v we_o 1._o of_o the_o disorder_n of_o the_o directory_n and_o have_v he_o prove_v it_o be_v that_o a_o justification_n of_o the_o liturgy_n 2._o and_o also_o he_o tell_v we_o of_o the_o defect_n and_o confusion_n which_o be_v in_o mr_n baxter_n eight_o day_n exploit_n our_o additional_n or_o reform_a liturgy_n 1661._o when_o as_o neither_o this_o accuser_n nor_o any_o of_o the_o bishop_n or_o dissenter_n than_o say_v one_o word_n of_o particular_a accusation_n against_o it_o nor_o any_o other_o that_o ever_o i_o know_v of_o to_o this_o day_n save_o a_o impertinent_a quarrel_n of_o mr._n roger_n le_fw-fr strange_n that_o we_o use_v not_o more_o impose_v word_n and_o such_o trifle_n §_o 35._o xvi_o next_o come_v the_o profession_n of_o the_o antiquity_n of_o three_o order_n in_o the_o preface_n of_o the_o book_n of_o ordination_n and_o elsewhere_o p._n 47._o and_o he_o cit_v i_o christ_n direct_v p._n 127._o as_o against_o myself_o false_o intimate_v that_o i_o assert_v three_o order_n because_o i_o be_o uncertain_a whether_o there_o be_v not_o divers_a degree_n in_o one_o order_n i_o cite_v out_o of_o spelnian_n the_o canon_n of_o aelfrike_n show_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n even_o in_o time_n of_o popery_n take_v bishop_n and_o presbyter_n to_o be_v the_o same_o order_n as_o many_o papists-schoolman_n do_v and_o the_o man_n shall_v have_v know_v that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o bishop_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n that_o i_o mention_v in_o my_o direct_a but_o only_o such_o as_o have_v the_o care_n of_o many_o bishop_n church_n §_o 36._o xvii_o he_o next_o defend_v the_o scenical_a call_n to_o the_o people_n to_o come_v forth_n and_o show_v reason_n why_o the_o person_n may_v not_o be_v ordain_v as_o if_o he_o know_v not_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n that_o be_v question_v but_o that_o this_o insignificant_a ceremony_n shall_v be_v set_v in_o the_o place_n of_o the_o ancient_a demand_n of_o their_o free_a consent_n over_o who_o the_o minister_n be_v set_v to_o seem_v as_o if_o they_o have_v still_o that_o liberty_n when_o it_o be_v no_o such_o matter_n nor_o do_v the_o people_n who_o soul_n he_o be_v to_o have_v the_o charge_n of_o know_v any_o thing_n usual_o of_o his_o ordination_n nor_o at_o his_o institution_n which_o set_v he_o over_o they_o have_v they_o any_o call_n nor_o be_v so_o much_o as_o these_o show_v use_v at_o the_o ordination_n of_o bishop_n which_o by_o the_o old_a canon_n be_v void_a without_o the_o people_n consent_n §_o 37._o xviii_o of_o the_o word_n receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n etc._n etc._n he_o say_v less_o than_o mr._n cheny_n who_o i_o have_v answer_v §_o 38._o xix_o so_o have_v i_o there_o answer_v p._n 11_o 12._o what_o he_o say_v for_o the_o oath_n of_o obedience_n to_o archbishop_n bishop_n chancellor_n etc._n etc._n 1._o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o obey_v they_o and_o another_o to_o assent_v to_o the_o oath_n of_o obedience_n 2._o and_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o swear_v obedience_n to_o they_o as_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n under_o the_o king_n and_o another_o thing_n as_o layman_n exercise_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church-key_n etc._n etc._n and_o i_o have_v elsewhere_o cite_v divers_a old_a canon_n that_o condemn_v such_o oath_n as_o dangerous_a §_o 39_o xx._n in_o the_o 20_o chap._n to_o mr._n cheny_n i_o have_v abundant_o answer_v what_o he_o say_v here_o about_o keep_v man_n from_o the_o sacrament_n and_o inform_v the_o ordinary_a these_o be_v the_o number_n of_o our_o exception_n which_o the_o impleader_n can_v find_v though_o the_o rest_n be_v as_o plain_o write_v §_o 40._o xxi_o as_o for_o our_o objection_n against_o the_o declaration_n and_o oath_n require_v by_o act_n of_o parliament_n because_o it_o be_v not_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o liturgy_n but_o of_o a_o act_n of_o parliament_n that_o we_o doubt_v of_o he_o refer_v we_o to_o the_o executioner_n of_o the_o law_n for_o our_o instruction_n their_o natural_a way_n of_o satisfaction_n the_o justice_n and_o jailor_n i_o suppose_v do_v these_o satisfy_v he_o to_o conform_v herein_o do_v he_o take_v such_o argument_n for_o unanswerable_a why_o do_v he_o pretend_v to_o defend_v the_o rest_n which_o be_v impose_v in_o the_o same_o act_n these_o be_v great_a matter_n than_o the_o ceremony_n and_o need_v as_o clear_v a_o justification_n §_o 41._o but_o that_o you_o may_v see_v the_o measure_n of_o his_o knowledge_n he_o can_v tell_v you_o that_o our_o mistake_n be_v wilful_a and_o a_o act_n of_o pure_a malice_n and_o revenge_n answ_n our_o rule_n oft_o mention_v be_v agree_v on_o by_o casuist_n viz._n to_o take_v such_o oath_n promise_n and_o profession_n in_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o impose_v maker_n of_o they_o if_o they_o be_v our_o ruler_n and_o unless_o they_o give_v we_o another_o sense_n we_o must_v take_v the_o ordinary_a sense_n that_o those_o word_n be_v use_v in_o to_o be_v they_o therefore_o we_o take_v on_o any_o pretence_n whatsoever_o and_o those_o commissioned_n by_o he_o and_o any_o alteration_n of_o government_n in_o the_o church_n and_o not_o at_o any_o time_n endeavour_v and_o no_o obligation_n on_o any_o other_o person_n as_o well_o as_o assent_v and_o consent_v to_o all_o thing_n contain_v and_o prescribe_v to_o have_v that_o meaning_n which_o not_o only_o our_o parent_n that_o teach_v we_o to_o speak_v and_o our_o master_n and_o dictionary_n and_o the_o use_n of_o such_o as_o we_o hear_v talk_v have_v teach_v we_o to_o take_v such_o word_n in_o but_o also_o in_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o lawyer_n and_o law-book_n which_o we_o be_v acquaint_v with_o unless_o any_o odd_a person_n differ_v from_o the_o rest_n and_o this_o sagacious_a man_n have_v find_v that_o this_o exposition_n be_v a_o wilful_a mistake_n in_o malice_n and_o revenge_n just_o as_o other_o of_o they_o can_v prove_v before_o god_n that_o it_o be_v through_o covetousness_n that_o we_o conform_v not_o viz._n two_o thousand_o minister_n england_n know_v of_o what_o sort_n though_o the_o accuser_n do_v not_o have_v forsake_v all_o church-maintenance_n and_o their_o ruler_n countenance_n and_o put_v themselves_o under_o a_o law_n that_o mulct_n they_o 40_o l._n a_o sermon_n banish_v they_o from_o city_n and_o corporation_n lay_v they_o in_o jail_n etc._n etc._n reproach_v they_o as_o seditious_a and_o all_o this_o in_o covetousness_n malice_n and_o revenge_n i_o have_v see_v a_o child_n throw_v away_o his_o meat_n in_o revenge_n but_o he_o return_v to_o it_o in_o less_o time_n than_o 18_o year_n i_o have_v hear_v of_o a_o woman_n that_o cut_v her_o throat_n and_o another_o that_o drown_v herself_o and_o child_n in_o a_o revengeful_a passion_n against_o her_o drunken_a cruel_a husband_n but_o sure_o if_o she_o have_v 18_o year_n deliberate_v it_o will_v have_v calm_v her_o passion_n but_o that_o 2000_o such_o minister_n shall_v choose_v ruine_v fine_n and_o poverty_n and_o jail_n and_o wilful_o damn_v their_o own_o soul_n by_o sin_n and_o all_o to_o be_v revenge_v on_o parliament_n or_o prelate_n be_v somewhat_o strange_a especial_o when_o it_o be_v that_o which_o that_o parliament_n and_o prelate_n themselves_o be_v please_v with_o who_o choose_v the_o term_n what_o kind_n of_o revenge_n have_v our_o malice_n find_v out_o which_o destroy_v ourselves_o and_o please_v our_o afflicter_n §_o 42._o and_o here_o p._n 55._o he_o fall_v with_o scorn_n on_o my_o book_n of_o concord_n and_o that_o his_o book_n may_v be_v conformable_a to_o itself_o describe_v my_o term_n of_o concord_n by_o downright_a fiction_n and_o falsehood_n as_o if_o he_o have_v think_v none_o will_v ever_o open_v the_o book_n to_o shame_v his_o calumny_n he_o tell_v you_o that_o the_o result_n of_o all_o be_v that_o every_o pastor_n be_v independent_a free_a from_o any_o superior_a to_o control_v he_o and_o have_v a_o arbitrary_a power_n and_o arbitrary_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n without_o appeal_n to_o have_v the_o power_n of_o ordain_v who_o they_o will_v the_o power_n of_o alter_v the_o law_n in_o church_n and_o state_n etc._n etc._n all_o which_o i_o have_v express_o write_v against_o at_o large_a beside_o what_o i_o have_v write_v 1._o for_o bishop_n in_o each_o church_n 2._o for_o archbishop_n or_o general_a overseer_n 3._o for_o synod_n 4._o have_v it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o what_o i_o have_v write_v for_o the_o magistrate_n govern_v of_o all_o pastor_n and_o church_n it_o will_v prove_v the_o falsehood_n of_o this_o man_n assertion_n yet_o that_o you_o
whether_o i_o be_v good_a or_o bad_a learned_a or_o unlearned_a let_v this_o be_v determine_v with_o he_o as_o he_o will_n i_o be_o so_o ignorant_a and_o bad_a that_o i_o will_v not_o now_o trouble_v he_o with_o much_o contradiction_n but_o the_o question_n be_v 1._o whether_o the_o two_o thousand_o minister_n be_v just_o silence_v 2._o and_o whether_o if_o they_o wilful_o though_o so_o silence_v desert_n the_o ministry_n to_o which_o they_o be_v devote_v and_o consecrate_a they_o will_v not_o be_v guilty_a of_o damnable_a sacrilege_n and_o perfidiousness_n if_o the_o man_n will_v speak_v to_o purpose_n to_o this_o question_n it_o be_v like_a that_o some_o one_o will_v confute_v his_o defence_n of_o so_o great_a a_o sin_n when_o i_o be_o pass_v this_o unpleasant_a military_a work_n a_o note_n on_o varney_n book_n against_o the_o dissenter_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n instead_o of_o confute_v it_o i_o commend_v the_o read_n of_o it_o to_o such_o as_o will_v see_v which_o side_n have_v fanatic_n it_o declare_v that_o j._n varney_n have_v by_o faith_n pull_v down_o the_o devil_n kingdom_n and_o that_o king_n charles_n 2._o shall_v be_v emperor_n of_o all_o nation_n by_o who_o christ_n will_v govern_v they_o great_a than_o turk_n pope_n or_o french_a and_o the_o way_n be_v the_o dissenter_n from_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n must_v be_v make_v hewer_n of_o wood_n and_o drawer_n of_o water_n and_o must_v pay_v all_o tax_n and_o payment_n of_o the_o land_n to_o maintain_v the_o force_n that_o shall_v preserve_v the_o land_n against_o they_o like_o decimation_n note_n on_o mr._n le_fw-fr strange_n be_v casuist_n uncase_v i_o have_v have_v some_o gentle_a touch_v from_o this_o musical_a band_n heretofore_o which_o i_o find_v not_o myself_o oblige_v to_o answer_v nor_o shall_v i_o now_o say_v any_o more_o than_o this_o i._o that_o he_o that_o fetch_v his_o chief_a sting_n and_o scorn_n from_o a_o book_n and_o the_o leaf_n of_o another_o book_n about_o twenty_o year_n or_o long_o at_o least_o revoke_v and_o obliterated_a show_v that_o if_o with_o austin_n we_o write_v retractation_n such_o man_n will_v turn_v all_o to_o reproach_n ii_o that_o i_o make_v not_o mr._n le_fw-fr strange_n be_v judgement_n the_o measure_n of_o my_o repentance_n or_o retractation_n iii_o that_o i_o have_v never_o have_v the_o school_n of_o he_o and_o so_o never_o teach_v he_o to_o understand_v my_o write_n and_o therefore_o undertake_v not_o that_o thing_n congruous_a shall_v not_o seem_v contradiction_n to_o he_o but_o i_o can_v reconcile_v more_o than_o he_o can_v for_o instance_n 1._o my_o disputation_n of_o scandal_n plea_n second_o reconcile_v what_o he_o dream_v be_v contradiction_n about_o impose_v thing_n evil_a by_o accident_n 2._o i_o can_v reconcile_v the_o king_n have_v power_n about_o the_o circumstance_n yea_o and_o substance_n of_o religion_n and_o yet_o that_o he_o have_v none_o but_o what_o he_o have_v from_o christ_n but_o i_o have_v not_o leisure_n for_o such_o work_n as_o this_o iu_o mr._n le_fw-fr strange_a quite_o mistake_v the_o nonconformist_n question_n as_o the_o reflecter_n do_v as_o if_o hiss_v and_o sting_a be_v dispute_v he_o seem_v to_o make_v the_o question_n to_o be_v whether_o i_o be_v not_o a_o giddy_a mutable_a self-contradicting_a fool_n and_o knave_n let_v he_o in_o that_o believe_v what_o please_v himself_o our_o question_n be_v whether_o silence_v fine_v imprison_v the_o nonconformist_n be_v the_o way_n of_o peace_n and_o of_o the_o desire_a concord_n of_o protestant_n yea_o whether_o concord_n be_v possible_a on_o those_o term_n and_o they_o will_v ever_o end_v our_o sad_a division_n note_n on_o a_o dialogue_n between_o the_o pope_n and_o a_o fanatic_a mr._n l._n strange_n dialogue_n mind_v i_o of_o this_o for_o it_o be_v a_o book_n not_o to_o be_v forget_v the_o scope_n of_o it_o be_v to_o show_v that_o the_o nonconformist_n be_v design_v to_o destroy_v the_o king_n that_o their_o principle_n be_v rebellious_a that_o they_o have_v so_o far_o prevail_v already_o that_o we_o must_v have_v no_o king_n or_o no_o parliament_n which_o yet_o be_v needful_a and_o the_o genius_n of_o the_o parliament_n thus_o corrupt_v the_o king_n must_v choose_v his_o own_o councillor_n and_o take_v the_o choice_n from_o the_o people_n to_o this_o sense_n and_o all_o the_o loyal_a subject_n must_v give_v their_o hand_n and_o list_v or_o engage_v themselves_o to_o defend_v the_o king_n against_o these_o conspirator_n just_o the_o meal-tub_n plot_n but_o my_o second_o plea_n be_v write_v to_o answer_v such_o as_o this_o and_o i_o leave_v the_o full_a answer_n to_o those_o that_o be_v more_o concern_v in_o it_o so_o much_o against_o this_o regiment_n of_o accuser_n turba_n gravis_fw-la paci_n placidaeque_fw-la inimica_fw-la qui●ti_fw-la finis_fw-la finis_fw-la alas_o then_o there_o be_v no_o remedy_n
and_o be_v hunt_v and_o lay_v in_o jayl_n with_o rogue_n 2._o can_v i_o expect_v that_o man_n that_o never_o be_v studious_a or_o bookish_a especial_o in_o matter_n of_o divinity_n and_o holiness_n but_o have_v be_v breed_v up_o in_o fullness_n and_o pleasure_n in_o courtship_n and_o converse_n with_o such_o as_o themselves_o who_o will_v take_v he_o for_o a_o fanatic_a that_o do_v but_o talk_n much_o and_o serious_o of_o heaven_n or_o scripture_n or_o thing_n divine_a that_o scarce_o ever_o hear_v what_o a_o nonconformist_n have_v to_o say_v for_o himself_o nor_o ever_o serious_o examine_v the_o cause_n or_o read_v a_o book_n which_o open_v their_o case_n in_o all_o their_o life_n i_o say_v can_v i_o expect_v that_o such_o shall_v be_v able_a or_o willing_a to_o understand_v we_o i_o mean_v not_o as_o if_o all_o be_v such_o but_o it_o have_v be_v my_o hard_a hap_n to_o meet_v with_o few_o person_n even_o of_o gentile_a education_n who_o ask_v i_o why_o do_v you_o not_o conform_v 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