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england_n book_n church_n minister_n 2,564 5 6.5894 4 false
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A41335 Weighty questions discussed I. Whether imposition of hands in separating a person to the work of the ministry be necessry?, II. Whether it be essential to the right constitution of a particular church, that the teaching elders and the members meet alwayes in one place? : whereunto is added a prediction of Mr. Daniel Rogers, minister in Essex, long before the beheading King Charles I and Arch-Bishop Laud, foretelling that they should not dye a natural death / by Giles Firmin ... Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.; D. R. (Daniel Rogers), 1573-1652. 1692 (1692) Wing F969; ESTC R31512 41,078 37

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weighty_a question_n discuss_v i._o whether_o imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o separate_v a_o person_n to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n be_v necessary_a ii_o whether_o it_o be_v essential_a to_o the_o right_a constitution_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n that_o the_o teach_v elder_n and_o the_o member_n meet_v always_o in_o one_o place_n whereunto_o be_v add_v a_o prediction_n of_o mr._n daniel_n rogers_n minister_n in_o essex_n long_o before_o the_o behead_n king_n charles_n i._n and_o archbishop_n laud_n foretell_v that_o they_o shall_v not_o die_v a_o natural_a death_n by_o giles_n firmin_n author_n of_o the_o real_a christian_a what_o thing_n soever_o i_o command_v you_o observe_v to_o do_v it_o thou_o shall_v not_o add_v thereto_o nor_o diminish_v from_o it_o deut._n 13.32_o london_n print_v for_o the_o author_n 1692._o to_o the_o reader_n that_o unity_n among_o christian_a brethren_n be_v a_o thing_n not_o only_o beautiful_a in_o itself_o but_o also_o a_o duty_n great_o 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〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 131._o 〈◊〉_d the_o precedent_n with_o the_o presbytery_n so_o beza_n and_o raynoldus_n anglorum_fw-la eruditissimus_fw-la etc._n etc._n say_v didocla_n alta._n damas_n p._n 131._o the_o light_n of_o nature_n direct_v to_o this_o i_o will_v willing_o have_v but_o one_o instance_n give_v where_o this_o government_n be_v ever_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o church_n more_o i_o can_v say_v i_o only_o mention_v this_o that_o though_o in_o these_o point_n i_o may_v differ_v from_o my_o brethren_n beside_o what_o be_v mention_v in_o the_o agreement_n yet_o it_o hinder_v not_o my_o union_n with_o they_o what_o this_o due_a ordination_n be_v our_o brethren_n as_o i_o say_v have_v not_o tell_v we_o hence_o the_o discuss_n of_o this_o question_n fall_v not_o under_o that_o prohibition_n p._n 3._o that_o we_o must_v not_o dispute_v those_o different_a sentiment_n for_o our_o sentiment_n do_v all_o agree_v it_o must_v be_v due_a ordination_n which_o if_o it_o be_v not_o 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ethis_n l._n 4._o cap._n 14._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d ephis_n 5.4_o aristotle_n tell_v we_o how_o the_o word_n be_v first_o use_v and_o who_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d a_o man_n that_o be_v facetious_a pleasant_a witty_a but_o withal_o clean_o in_o his_o discourse_n but_o afterward_o in_o his_o time_n if_o a_o man_n do_v seem_v to_o be_v witty_a though_o scurrilous_a and_o base_a he_o now_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d divers_a such_o word_n we_o have_v in_o the_o latin_a and_o english_a tongue_n philo_z and_o paul_n be_v contemporary_n paul_n philo_z flourish_v in_o caligula_n be_v time_n and_o write_v before_o paul_n and_o how_o philo_n use_v the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d dr._n hammond_n have_v give_v we_o a_o account_n out_o of_o his_o work_n likewise_o out_o of_o lucian_n and_o maximus_n tyrius_n where_o the_o word_n be_v use_v of_o single_a person_n so_o that_o the_o word_n do_v not_o in_o those_o time_n signify_v the_o suffrage_n of_o the_o 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it_o govern_v a_o accusative_a case_n as_o it_o do_v in_o this_o place_n th●n_v the_o sense_n run_v smooth_a paul_n and_o barnabas_n do_v constitute_v or_o ordain_v they_o i._n e._n the_o disciple_n in_o the_o former_a verse_n elder_n in_o every_o church_n etc._n etc._n 4thly_a it_o be_v certain_a the_o greek_a father_n do_v use_v their_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d for_o ordination_n sure_o they_o understand_v their_o own_o mother_n tongue_n as_o well_o as_o we_o i_o have_v observe_v chrysostem_fw-la in_o all_o those_o text_n where_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v mention_v he_o use_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d gerhard_n confess_v that_o chrysostom_n and_o other_o ecclesiastical_a writer_n do_v so_o use_v it_o and_o though_o he_o stick_v to_o the_o etymology_n of_o the_o word_n to_o maintain_v the_o people_n right_a of_o election_n yet_o ordination_n he_o say_v must_v be_v with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n therefore_o he_o say_v in_o the_o next_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d demum_fw-la sit_fw-la mentio_fw-la in_o their_o pray_n they_o impose_v hand_n thus_o he_o as_o to_o these_o father_n who_o thus_o use_v the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d have_v they_o be_v against_o the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n than_o i_o shall_v have_v suspect_v their_o integrity_n in_o their_o use_n of_o the_o word_n but_o the_o people_n then_o have_v their_o election_n of_o their_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n and_o one_o thing_n i_o take_v notice_n of_o in_o the_o 5_o century_n i_o read_v of_o one_o syn●si●s_n a_o man_n of_o very_o good_a part_n who_o be_v to_o be_v ordain_v bishop_n of_o siren_n but_o when_o he_o shall_v be_v ordain_v he_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o resurrection_n of_o the_o body_n yet_o the_o people_n who_o have_v elect_v he_o be_v so_o earnest_a to_o have_v he_o ordain_v that_o theophilus_n alexand._n do_v ordain_v he_o hope_v he_o may_v believe_v it_o afterward_o as_o he_o do_v when_o i_o read_v it_o i_o think_v what_o a_o difference_n there_o be_v between_o those_o time_n and_o we_o they_o can_v ordain_v a_o bishop_n who_o do_v not_o believe_v one_o of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n as_o it_o be_v call_v but_o the_o church_n of_o england_n can_v cast_v out_o about_o eighteen_o hundred_o minister_n but_o for_o what_o be_v it_o because_o they_o do_v not_o assent_v to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o hear_v mr._n harmar_n shall_v tell_v bishop_n reynolds_n if_o you_o can_v maintain_v the_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n the_o dissenter_n must_v maintain_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v it_o because_o they_o be_v scandalous_a in_o their_o conversation_n be_v it_o because_o they_o be_v idle_a and_o lazy_a be_v it_o because_o they_o do_v not_o worship_n god_n according_a to_o his_o word_n bless_a be_v god_n they_o can_v charge_v we_o with_o none_o of_o these_o thing_n for_o what_o then_o let_v they_o answer_v that_o when_o they_o come_v to_o appear_v before_o their_o and_o our_o judge_n they_o be_v churchman_n and_o bishop_n that_o make_v that_o act_n against_o we_o sect_n iii_o now_o to_o your_o reason_n why_o you_o ordain_v without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n that_o which_o you_o chie●●y_v insist_v upon_o be_v this_o there_o be_v neither_o scripture_n precept_n no●_n precedent_n for_o ordinary_a officer_n of_o one_o church_n to_o impose_v hand_n in_o the_o ordination_n of_o a_o officer_n in_o another_o church_n answ_n first_o what_o need_v of_o such_o precedent_n while_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n be_v live_v second_o this_o argument_n of_o you_o plain_o imply_v that_o there_o be_v scripture_n precept_n and_o precedent_n to_o ordain_v in_o another_o church_n so_o it_o be_v without_o imposition_n of_o
hand_n it_o lie_v upon_o you_o to_o show_v where_o that_o precept_n or_o precedent_n be_v i_o know_v no_o such_o text_n you_o act_v do_v you_o act_n in_o faith_n that_o you_o act_v according_a to_o god_n and_o be_v well-pleasing_a to_o god_n in_o your_o ordain_v without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n then_o show_v we_o that_o divine_a testimony_n upon_o which_o your_o faith_n for_o so_o act_v be_v ground_v you_o never_o give_v i_o one_o as_o yet_o and_o if_o you_o can_v do_v it_o your_o faith_n in_o this_o act_n be_v but_o vain_a if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n i_o do_v in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n for_o which_o i_o can_v give_v either_o precept_n precedent_n necessary_a consequence_n from_o scripture_n or_o light_n of_o nature_n i_o will_v lay_v by_o that_o act_n i_o will_v not_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n nor_o hinder_v union_n with_o my_o brethren_n by_o keep_v up_o such_o practice_n three_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o constitute_v church_n as_o you_o do_v with_o one_o single_a pastor_n etc._n etc._n in_o nine_o church_n we_o find_v several_a teacher_n but_o not_o one_o with_o a_o single_a teacher_n in_o a_o young_a church_n at_o antioch_n act._n 13.2_o 3._o there_o be_v three_o teacher_n to_o separate_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n there_o be_v a_o error_n then_o in_o your_o constitution_n and_o that_o do_v not_o justify_v your_o error_n in_o ordination_n four_o give_v i_o a_o precedent_n where_o the_o pastor_n of_o one_o church_n do_v so_o much_o as_o preach_v or_o pray_v in_o another_o church_n if_o you_o can_v than_o we_o must_v not_o so_o much_o as_o preach_v or_o pray_v in_o another_o church_n but_o you_o have_v call_v i_o and_o other_o to_o preach_v in_o your_o church_n to_o this_o you_o answer_v i_o you_o can_v well_o do_v that_o from_o matth._n 28.19_o go_v teach_v all_o nation_n if_o so_o then_o in_o other_o church_n answ_n first_o set_a by_o precedent_n then_o it_o seem_v you_o can_v find_v none_o second_o i_o may_v deny_v your_o consequence_n at_o ●●ast_n according_a to_o some_o independent_a principle_n unless_o i_o preach_v as_o a_o gift_a brother_n to_o preach_v to_o the_o nation_n who_o be_v heathen_n and_o to_o preach_v in_o a_o independent_a church_n differ_v i_o may_v preach_v to_o heathen_a as_o a_o minister_n of_o christ_n but_o in_o a_o independent_a church_n as_o a_o gi●ted_a brother_n i_o wish_v we_o know_v the_o first_o author_n of_o this_o distinction_n that_o we_o may_v scratch_v his_o cranium_fw-la for_o so_o witty_a a_o invention_n what_o your_o judgement_n be_v as_o to_o this_o distinction_n 101._o lib._n 2._o p._n 101._o i_o can_v tell_v but_o i_o be_o of_o dr._n owen_n mind_n if_o i_o do_v not_o think_v myself_o bo●nd_a say_v he_o to_o preach_v as_o a_o minister_n and_o as_o a_o minister_n authorize_v in_o all_o place_n and_o on_o all_o occasion_n whe●_n i_o be_o call_v thereunto_o i_o think_v i_o shall_v never_o preach_v much_o more_o in_o this_o world_n fisth_o if_o that_o text_n will_v warrant_v i_o to_o preach_v in_o another_o church_n it_o will_v warrant_v i_o to_o baptise_v in_o another_o church_n if_o there_o be_v need_n and_o i_o be_o call_v to_o it_o they_o be_v join_v together_o and_o if_o i_o may_v put_v forth_o two_o act_n of_o authority_n i_o may_v also_o put_v forth_o a_o three_o if_o there_o want_v a_o pastor_n and_o i_o be_o call_v to_o join_v with_o other_o to_o separate_v he_o to_o his_o office_n we_o will_v do_v it_o according_a to_o the_o word_n with_o fast_v prayer_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n without_o which_o it_o be_v not_o ordination_n we_o do_v not_o give_v he_o the_o deficition_n six_o since_o than_o we_o be_v come_v to_o consequence_n from_o scripture_n i_o give_v you_o a_o scripture_n 1_o cor._n 12.12_o the_o body_n be_v one_o and_o have_v many_o member_n etc._n etc._n he_o do_v not_o mean_a that_o particular_a church_n of_o corinth_n be_v that_o one_o body_n he_o add_v so_o be_v christ_n v._o 13._o jew_n and_o gentile_n make_v up_o that_o one_o body_n v._o 25._o the_o member_n of_o this_o one_o body_n must_v have_v the_o same_o care_n one_o of_o another_o do_v the_o apostle_n tie_v up_o his_o discourse_n to_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n that_o the_o member_n of_o that_o church_n shall_v have_v care_n one_o of_o another_o and_o if_o one_o of_o their_o member_n do_v ●●●●er_o v._o 26._o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o member_n of_o corinth_n suffer_v with_o they_o but_o for_o other_o church_n take_v no_o care_n of_o they_o if_o they_o suffer_v you_o need_v not_o suffer_v with_o they_o certain_o this_o be_v not_o the_o apostle_n meaning_n i_o look_v upon_o all_o particular_a church_n to_o be_v member_n of_o that_o one_o body_n it_o be_v such_o a_o church_n in_o which_o christ_n have_v set_v apostle_n prophet_n etc._n etc._n v._n 28._o it_o be_v such_o a_o church_n where_o some_o be_v as_o eye_n other_o as_o ear_n some_o as_o foot_n some_o as_o hand_n verses_z 15_o 16._o therefore_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n if_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n how_o many_o body_n shall_v christ_n have_v but_o he_o have_v but_o one_o body_n as_o the_o 12_o verse_n and_o ephes_n 4.4_o 12._o tell_v we_o since_o th●n_v all_o particular_a church_n be_v but_o member_n of_o that_o one_o body_n and_o the_o lord_n have_v command_v the_o member_n to_o have_v care_n one_o of_o another_o sure_o the_o lord_n have_v not_o confine_v the_o ministerial_a power_n of_o a_o pastor_n to_o his_o own_o particular_a church_n so_o that_o if_o a_o neighbour-church_n have_v no_o pastor_n that_o the_o pastor_n near_o to_o this_o church_n may_v not_o help_v that_o church_n to_o a_o pastor_n and_o in_o that_o way_n which_o his_o word_n have_v declare_v your_o practice_n testify_v it_o for_o you_o will_v make_v the_o person_n to_o be_v ordain_v and_o other_o believe_v you_o ordain_v in_o another_o church_n and_o this_o be_v a_o act_n of_o authority_n but_o not_o as_o you_o perform_v it_o nor_o according_a to_o god_n word_n and_o so_o it_o be_v no_o ordination_n there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o a_o minister_n help_v another_o church_n destitute_a of_o a_o officer_n in_o seed_v they_o with_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n a_o join_n with_o other_o in_o the_o ordination_n of_o a_o pastor_n to_o they_o and_o exercise_v discipline_n in_o that_o church_n in_o case_n of_o scandal_n the_o church_n have_v some_o power_n to_o help_v itself_o in_o this_o case_n though_o no_o pastor_n for_o instance_n a_o pastor_n of_o a_o church_n not_o far_o from_o we_o in_o the_o time_n of_o persecution_n leave_v england_n go_v beyond-sea_n many_o mile_n this_o church_n have_v none_o to_o seed_v they_o they_o desire_v help_v of_o their_o neighbour_n minister_n who_o according_o do_v afford_v they_o help_v some_o preach_v some_o baptize_v their_o infant_n and_o other_o administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o they_o one_o of_o the_o church_n fall_v very_o foul_o be_v seduce_v by_o another_o professor_n the_o scandal_n very_o great_a so_o that_o the_o heart_n of_o good_a people_n very_o sad_a but_o our_o enemy_n rejoice_v it_o make_v such_o a_o noise_n in_o the_o country_n many_o mile_n about_o we_o that_o the_o like_v i_o believe_v have_v not_o be_v know_v in_o these_o part_n i_o be_v desire_v to_o preach_v there_o when_o i_o have_v do_v my_o sermon_n a_o write_v be_v deliver_v to_o i_o wherein_o the_o church_n desire_v i_o to_o declare_v to_o the_o congregation_n which_o be_v then_o very_o great_a be_v no_o sermon_n in_o the_o public_a place_n their_o abhorrency_n of_o such_o act_n and_o withal_o desire_v i_o to_o inform_v they_o what_o be_v their_o duty_n what_o they_o ought_v to_o do_v in_o such_o a_o case_n as_o this_o i_o give_v they_o my_o thought_n thus_o you_o be_v but_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n and_o so_o have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v that_o be_v a_o act_n of_o authority_n nor_o have_v i_o any_o power_n to_o call_v the_o person_n to_o a_o account_n and_o excommunicate_v but_o yet_o this_o you_o may_v do_v since_o the_o person_n be_v admit_v into_o church-fellowship_n and_o communion_n with_o your_o consent_n she_o have_v fall_v so_o foul_o dishonour_v god_n so_o great_o and_o open_v the_o mouth_n of_o man_n against_o godliness_n you_o shall_v first_o meet_v together_o and_o humble_a your_o soul_n before_o god_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v such_o dishonour_v bring_v to_o his_o name_n by_o one_o of_o your_o church_n then_o first_o you_o have_v the_o lord_n supper_n administer_v sometime_o among_o you_o there_o you_o may_v deny_v communion_n with_o she_o second_o you_o have_v time_n when_o your_o church_n only_o meet_v together_o for_o prayer_n mutual_a conference_n etc._n etc._n you_o
m●_n quick_v sermo_n a●_n mr._n faldo_n be_v funeral_n p._n 22._o what_o mr._n q●ick_n write_v i_o be_o both_o a_o eye_n and_o earwitness_n to_o about_o fitty_a sour_a year_n since_o he_o preach_v on_o mar._n 2.5_o in_o boston_n in_o new-england_n and_o do_v think-the_a peterman_n have_v faith_n because_o christ_n tell_v he_o his_o sin_n be_v forgive_v but_o no_o forgiveness_n without_o faith_n up_o rise_v one_o first_o forsooth_o he_o be_v not_o satisfy_v than_o another_o after_o he_o than_o mr._n cotton_n our_o teacher_n he_o take_v up_o our_o pastor_n case_n and_o defend_v it_o and_o ten_o one_o after_o another_o fall_v upon_o he_o though_o the_o text_n do_v not_o say_v when_o jesus_n see_v his_o but_o their_o faith_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v but_o the_o palsie-man_n may_v be_v include_v in_o the_o word_n their_o and_o his_o faith_n put_v they_o on_o both_o the_o bearer_n and_o palsie-man_n have_v faith_n this_o be_v too_o common_a in_o that_o church_n though_o the_o most_o public_a where_o seaman_n and_o all_o stranger_n come_v sir_n henry_n vane_n be_v the_o man_n that_o do_v embolden_v they_o when_o minister_n have_v do_v preach_v he_o will_v find_v question_n to_o put_v to_o they_o though_o they_o be_v stranger_n second_o question_n areverend_a author_n out_o of_o a_o book_n compose_v as_o he_o tell_v we_o by_o several_a bishop_n and_o great_a doctor_n and_o approve_v by_o authority_n in_o king_n henry_n the_o eighth_n day_n have_v collect_v these_o proposition_n first_o that_o a_o parochial_a or_o congregational-church_n government_n be_v accordint_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n jure_fw-la divino_fw-la second_o that_o the_o diocesan_n or_o national_a government_n be_v jure_fw-la hamano_n three_o that_o protestant_n except_o some_o obscure_a writer_n assert_v particular_a church_n to_o be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o church-government_n among_o who_o say_v he_o there_o be_v these_o difference_n 1._o the_o episcopal_a and_o presbyterian_a differ_v from_o the_o congregational_a about_o the_o extent_n of_o particular_a church_n i._n e._n the_o congregational_a conclude_v there_o must_v be_v no_o more_o than_o be_v capable_a of_o personal_a communion_n the_o former_a make_v a_o great_a extent_n and_o give_v too_o great_a advantage_n to_o papacy_n 2._o they_o differ_v concern_v the_o nature_n of_o discipline_n the_o congregational_a be_v esteem_v a_o espouser_n of_o a_o democracy_n the_o presbyterian_a of_o a_o aristocracy_n the_o episcopal_a of_o monarchy_n but_o maccovius_fw-la 161._o maccovius_fw-la theol._n polem_n p._n 161._o keckerman_n 3._o keckerman_n sy_v theol._n p._n 3._o mention_v another_o aristo_n democratical_a and_o dr._n ames_n 20._o ames_n medul_a theol._n p._n 1._o c._n 33._o thes_n 20._o seem_v to_o be_v of_o the_o same_o judgement_n four_o all_o protestant_n agree_v in_o affert_v the_o independency_n of_o particular_a church_n thus_o far_o my_o author_n that_o we_o may_v understand_v one_o another_o clear_o suppose_v we_o then_o that_o all_o the_o christian_n in_o england_n that_o dwell_v in_o their_o several_a parish_n be_v such_o as_o deserve_v the_o name_n of_o visible_a saint_n these_o meet_v every_o lordsday_n in_o their_o parish-church_n as_o they_o call_v it_o to_o worship_n god_n where_o there_o be_v but_o one_o pastor_n lecturer_n and_o reader_n be_v but_o in_o few_o parish_n in_o the_o country_n nor_o have_v they_o any_o power_n in_o church-government_n 1._o be_v these_o the_o particular_a church_n you_o mean_v by_o the_o word_n parochial_a and_o congregational_a i_o suppose_v my_o brother_n mean_v so_o 2._o be_v every_o such_o particular_a church_n the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n 3._o be_v all_o these_o independert_fw-ge my_o brother_n have_v say_v it_o first_o i_o desire_v my_o brother_n will_v name_v one_o such_o church_n which_o the_o apostle_n do_v constitute_v but_o with_o one_o teach_v elder_a or_o paster_n second_o how_o you_o may_v persuade_v the_o pastor_n to_o admit_v the_o people_n to_o be_v ruler_n with_o they_o i_o can_v tell_v but_o i_o doubt_v we_o shall_v have_v a_o monarclical-government_n set_v up_o in_o every_o parish_n in_o england_n which_o you_o say_v the_o bishop_n espouse_v mr._n norton_n as_o acute_a and_o learned_a divine_a as_o new-england_n have_v be_v at_o a_o meeting_n of_o about_o forty_o elder_n one_o that_o be_v new_o come_v into_o the_o country_n be_v read_v to_o the_o elder_n what_o his_o judgement_n be_v about_o church-government_n he_o will_v have_v it_o to_o be_v democratical_a quote_v morellus_n several_a time_n what_o have_v we_o to_o do_v with_o mor●llus_n say_fw-la mr._n norton_n to_o i_o if_o i_o can_v prove_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v presbyterial_a i_o will_v give_v up_o our_o cause_n three_o if_o all_o these_o particular_a church_n be_v independent_a i_o fear_v we_o shall_v have_v wild_a do_n experience_n have_v prove_v it_o already_o it_o at_o this_o day_n we_o see_v woeful_a effect_n of_o it_o if_o there_o be_v one_o or_o two_o gentleman_n of_o purse_n piety_n and_o part_n that_o stick_v close_o to_o the_o minister_n and_o awe_v the_o people_n thing_n may_v go_v on_o quiet_o else_o if_o there_o be_v but_o two_o self-conceited_a pragmatical_a fellow_n as_o i_o have_v know_v you_o shall_v soon_o see_v what_o will_v become_v of_o your_o parochial-government_n four_o suppose_v the_o pastor_n be_v foul_o scandalize_v by_o some_o of_o his_o church_n one_o or_o more_o how_o shall_v the_o government_n be_v carry_v on_o shall_v he_o be_v plaintiff_n and_o judge_n in_o his_o own_o case_n i_o have_v know_v a_o case_n where_o a_o pastor_n have_v great_a offence_n give_v i_o propound_v the_o case_n to_o dr._n owen_n faldo_n owen_n and_o mr._n faldo_n whether_o that_o pastor_n shall_v proceed_v according_a to_o matth._n 18.15_o 16_o he_o tell_v i_o by_o no_o mean_n when_o he_o hear_v my_o reason_n we_o shall_v meet_v with_o hard_a case_n if_o we_o come_v to_o set_v to_o government_n indeed_o five_o suppose_v the_o pastor_n himself_o grow_v scandalous_a how_o shall_v government_n be_v carry_v on_o now_o six_o good_a man_n and_o minister_n be_v subject_a to_o passion_n and_o infirmity_n whence_o it_o be_v not_o fit_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v commit_v to_o one_o alone_a seven_o to_o govern_v will_n be_v a_o gist_n by_o itself_o a_o man_n may_v be_v a_o good_a preacher_n but_o no_o good_a governor_n eight_o when_o our_o lord_n send_v out_o the_o apostle_n and_o the_o seventy_o only_o to_o pre●●●_n he_o send_v they_o out_o by_o two_o and_o two_o mar._n 6.7_o l●k_n 10.1_o now_o a_o single_a paster_n undertake_v all_o nine_o the_o jewish_a synagogue_n bid_v several_a elder_n to_o carry_v on_o the_o government_n in_o one_o of_o their_o synagogue_n and_o we_o but_o one_o 〈◊〉_d vident_fw-la o●●li_fw-la quam_fw-la o●ul●s_fw-la it_o be_v true_a our_o pastor_n with_o his_o people_n may_v true_o be_v call_v a_o church_n as_o that_o woman_n who_o have_v no_o arm_n but_o hold_v be_v pen_n between_o her_o toe_n and_o so_o write_v 〈◊〉_d have_v see_v of_o she_o write_v 〈◊〉_d may_v well_o be_v say_v to_o be_v animal_n rationale_fw-la a_o r●●io●●●_n creature_n but_o have_v god_n make_v the_o w●●an_n so_o at_o first_o the_o woman_n have_v not_o be_v a_o 〈…〉_o to_o man_n so_o here_o be_v a_o company_n of_o v●●ible_a stint_n one_o pa●●or_n here_o be_v preach_v prayer_n administration_n of_o sacrament_n and_o in_o some_o case_n excresse_n of_o discipline_n so_o that_o it_o be_v a_o true_a church_n but_o not_o such_o a_o church_n as_o the_o aposlle_v send_v by_o christ_n do_v constitute_v 〈◊〉_d to_o answer_v all_o end_n of_o a_o church_n it_o be_v imperfect_a defective_a and_o our_o duty_n be_v to_o write_v after_o that_o copy_n the_o apostle_n of_o christ_n have_v set_v we_o dr._n owen_n have_v prove_v there_o aught_o to_o be_v many_o elder_n in_o every_o church_n 138._o 2d_o part_v of_o the_o church_n p._n 138._o by_o scripture_n and_o reason_n i_o think_v sufficient_o soon_o after_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n mr._n clarkson_n in_o his_o discourse_n against_o diocesan_n church_n his_o first_o book_n p._n 5.21_o have_v show_v there_o be_v more_o presbyter_n in_o every_o church_n than_o be_v necessary_a in_o those_o virgin_n church_n in_o the_o valley_n of_o piedmont_n which_o be_v never_o desile_v with_o popery_n but_o keep_v pure_a from_o the_o apostle_n day_n where_n i_o find_v ordination_n be_v with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n contrary_a to_o our_o man_n i_o read_v in_o their_o low_a condition_n seven_o elder_n make_v a_o classis_fw-la they_o carry_v on_o their_o government_n by_o joint_a council_n they_o have_v their_o consistory_n and_o 140_o pastor_n heretofore_o in_o a_o synod_n whence_o this_o one_o teach_v elder_a or_o a_o single_a pastor_n in_o a_o church_n be_v a_o
there_o be_v a_o uniform_a order_n touch_v ordination_n of_o minister_n throughout_o the_o whole_a realm_n and_o that_o with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o thus_o it_o hold_v to_o this_o day_n mr._n 424._o an._n 1598._o pag._n 424._o bruce_n have_v preach_v many_o year_n will_v admit_v of_o imposition_n of_o band_n for_o confirmation_n but_o not_o for_o ordination_n several_a deny_v he_o to_o be_v their_o lawful_a pastor_n for_o want_n of_o imposition_n but_o other_o own_a he_o mr._n bruce_n accept_v of_o imposition_n for_o confirmation_n and_o mr._n pont_n impose_v hand_n upon_o he_o first_o as_o for_o imposition_n of_o hand_n for_o confirmation_n as_o it_o be_v use_v in_o england_n after_o baptism_n i_o find_v not_o one_o word_n of_o it_o in_o all_o the_o history_n nor_o do_v the_o church_n of_o scotland_n own_v it_o that_o i_o find_v there_o second_o all_o this_o while_n there_o be_v not_o one_o scripture_n bring_v by_o those_o who_o oppose_v imposition_n yet_o they_o have_v take_v the_o word_n of_o god_n for_o their_o only_a rule_n which_o be_v so_o express_v for_o imposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o make_v i_o wonder_v at_o mr._n bruce_n so_o holy_a a_o man._n but_o if_o they_o have_v no_o scripture_n have_v they_o no_o reason_n yes_o they_o have_v one_o and_o but_o one_o and_o that_o a_o pityful_a one_o too_o thus_o it_o be_v lay_v as_o a_o ground_n 425._o pag._n 425._o that_o none_o can_v receive_v ordination_n to_o the_o ministry_n without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o that_o the_o ceremony_n be_v proper_a to_o bishop_n it_o behove_v to_o follow_v that_o none_o can_v enter_v into_o the_o ministry_n without_o the_o imposition_n of_o the_o hand_n of_o bishop_n this_o be_v all_o very_a strange_a that_o mr._n bruce_n shall_v admit_v of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n for_o confirmation_n when_o the_o bishop_n do_v appropriate_a that_o to_o themselves_o as_o well_o as_o in_o ordination_n how_o many_o thing_n may_v be_v say_v to_o this_o to_o show_v the_o weakness_n of_o this_o ground_n any_o understand_a man_n may_v easy_o see_v but_o i_o forbear_v the_o representation_n of_o presbyterian_a government_n and_o put_v out_o the_o year_n 1690._o when_o bishop_n be_v turn_v out_o tell_v we_o in_o the_o sixteenth_o section_n that_o man_n come_v into_o the_o ministry_n by_o election_n and_o ordination_n by_o lay_v on_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o bresbytery_n which_o be_v a_o mean_a of_o communicate_v authority_n to_o he_o then_o it_o seem_v the_o church_n of_o scotland_n where_o this_o stir_n be_v can_v impose_v hand_n in_o ordination_n without_o bishop_n by_o read_v this_o history_n i_o find_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n from_o the_o first_o beginning_n of_o reformation_n be_v presbyterian_a wherefore_o it_o be_v no_o small_a injury_n to_o impose_v upon_o they_o prelatical_a bishop_n unless_o they_o have_v be_v of_o christ_n institution_n which_o we_o be_v sure_o they_o be_v not_o and_o that_o our_o first_o reformer_n in_o king_n henry_n the_o eight_o and_o in_o king_n edward_n the_o sixth_n do_v declare_v that_o episcopacy_n be_v no_o distinct_a order_n from_o bresbytery_n by_o divine_a right_n but_o only_o a_o prudent_a constitution_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n for_o the_o better_a government_n of_o the_o church_n sect_n ii_o the_o definition_n of_o ordination_n as_o to_o the_o word_n ordination_n i_o think_v greg_n de_fw-fr valen._n speak_v right_a 1._o tom._n 4._o dis_n 9_o q._n 1._o p._n 1._o the_o word_n be_v take_v from_o the_o effect_n of_o that_o ordinance_n quia_fw-la per_fw-la ordinationem_fw-la aliquis_fw-la in_o gradu_fw-la quodam_fw-la atque_fw-la ordine_fw-la certo_fw-la ecclestasticae_fw-la dignitatis_fw-la constituit●r_fw-la some_o be_v pastor_n some_o be_v teacher_n some_o a●e_n rule_v elder_n some_o be_v deacon_n they_o be_v set_v or_o place_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 1_o cor._n 1.28_o in_o such_o a_o order_n in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n by_o ordination_n thus_o it_o have_v pass_v for_o currant_n many_o hundred_o year_n in_o the_o church_n till_o yesterday_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n and_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n i_o desire_v my_o brethren_n but_o to_o give_v i_o that_o adjunct_n according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o we_o shall_v unite_v though_o we_o differ_v in_o our_o logical_a notion_n what_o shall_v he_o do_v where_o ordination_n can_v be_v have_v something_o i_o have_v to_o say_v to_o it_o but_o be_v none_o of_o our_o question_n i_o let_v it_o alone_o it_o be_v more_o material_a to_o know_v what_o ordination_n be_v and_o be_v it_o be_v essential_a to_o our_o discourse_n i_o will_v give_v the_o definition_n of_o it_o this_o be_v a_o sure_a truth_n that_o they_o who_o do_v not_o give_v the_o definition_n they_o do_v but_o mock_v the_o person_n to_o be_v ordain_v and_o abuse_v the_o ordinance_n for_o he_o be_v not_o ordain_v cui_fw-la convenit_fw-la definitio_fw-la eidem_fw-la quoque_fw-la convenit_fw-la definitum_fw-la &_o è_fw-la contra_fw-la etc._n etc._n ordination_n then_o be_v the_o separation_n of_o a_o person_n right_o qualify_v to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o teach_v elder_n with_o fast_v prayer_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n something_o i_o have_v think_v to_o have_v speak_v about_o the_o qualification_n wherein_o i_o see_v these_o man_n practice_n with_o no_o content_n their_o way_n be_v to_o debase_v the_o ministry_n but_o the_o stress_n lie_v most_o in_o the_o ordiners_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n i_o shall_v speak_v to_o these_o two_o head_n that_o it_o belong_v to_o teach_v elder_n act._n 13.3_o tim._n 1.4.14_o i_o prove_v it_o here_o the_o people_n rise_v up_o and_o claim_v a_o right_n by_o virtue_n of_o their_o be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n and_o i_o have_v see_v it_o practise_v two_o private_a person_n impose_v their_o hand_n upon_o a_o ancient_a grave_n divine_a who_o be_v ordain_v i_o believe_v near_o 40_o year_n before_o in_o england_n etc._n etc._n they_o give_v he_o the_o essence_n in_o give_v he_o a_o call_v and_o so_o they_o give_v he_o the_o adjunct_n and_o this_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o these_o man_n here_o ay_o preser_fw-ge their_o ordination_n with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o will_v own_v he_o for_o a_o gospel_n minister_n before_o they_o who_o you_o ordain_v as_o you_o suppose_v without_o imposition_n and_o if_o ordination_n be_v no_o more_o than_o prayer_n and_o fast_v what_o need_v of_o you_o according_a to_o the_o principle_n of_o independency_n in_o another_o church_n it_o be_v not_o prayer_n preach_v and_o fast_v though_o i_o grant_v preach_v be_v very_o comely_a at_o such_o a_o ordinance_n yet_o preach_v be_v not_o ingredient_n into_o the_o ordination_n the_o people_n can_v fast_o and_o pray_v as_o well_o as_o you_o i_o observe_v while_o the_o hand_n of_o these_o private_a person_n be_v upon_o the_o head_n of_o their_o pastor_n one_o of_o they_o make_v such_o a_o prayer_n as_o may_v become_v any_o minister_n it_o be_v so_o apposite_a to_o the_o business_n in_o hand_n that_o i_o can_v but_o wonder_v at_o it_o and_o i_o believe_v it_o be_v his_o own_o compose_v whether_o the_o fraternity_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n sure_a mr._n nath._n ward_n use_v to_o say_v they_o be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key-clog_n not_o the_o key_n so_o they_o have_v prove_v in_o many_o church_n i_o be_o sure_a i_o have_v speak_v to_o it_o several_a year_n since_o in_o another_o tract_n i_o add_v but_o a_o few_o word_n now_o in_o the_o common_a wealth_n the_o people_n be_v before_o the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o church_n the_o ministry_n be_v before_o the_o people_n thus_o it_o begin_v with_o the_o apostle_n they_o be_v first_o and_o after_o they_o by_o a_o continual_a succession_n of_o the_o ministry_n the_o church_n be_v continue_v the_o ministry_n be_v the_o instrument_n in_o god_n hand_n which_o he_o use_v common_o or_o chief_o for_o the_o bring_n in_o and_o build_v up_o of_o his_o church_n 2_o cor._n 6.1_o ephes_n 4.11_o 12._o the_o principal_a cause_n and_o the_o instrument_n work_v together_o to_o the_o produce_v of_o the_o effect_n that_o then_o the_o effect_n of_o a_o power_n shall_v be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o that_o power_n of_o which_o it_o be_v a_o effect_n be_v new_a logic_n to_o i_o dr._n owen_n say_v the_o church_n be_v before_o ordinary_a minister_n answ_n first_o but_o be_v it_o before_o the_o ministry_n else_o it_o be_v nothing_o second_o the_o proposition_n be_v not_o true_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o faithful_a and_o laborious_a servant_n of_o christ_n mr._n eliot_n who_o i_o know_v and_o honour_n mr._n mahew_n mr._n leverick_n with_o great_a labour_n and_o industry_n get_v the_o indian_a language_n and_o preach_v to_o the_o indian_n they_o be_v