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A34082 The right of tythes asserted & proved, from divine institution, primitive practice, voluntary donations, and positive laws with a just vindication of that sacred maintenance from the cavils of Thomas Elwood, in his pretended answer to the friendly conference. Comber, Thomas, 1645-1699. 1677 (1677) Wing C5488; ESTC R39378 85,062 252

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all_o the_o scatter_a law_n about_o tithe_n and_o confirm_v they_o for_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n of_o england_n till_o he_o who_o be_v the_o first_o hereditary_a monarch_n of_o the_o saxon_a blood_n he_o therefore_o guide_v by_o these_o foreign_a authority_n and_o example_n and_o lead_v by_o the_o custom_n canon_n and_o law_n of_o the_o several_a petty_a kingdom_n and_o king_n do_v now_o make_v this_o most_o famous_a charter_n to_o oblige_v the_o whole_a kingdom_n to_o this_o religious_a payment_n who_o rise_n and_o original_n we_o have_v thus_o far_o see_v §_o 14._o 2_o as_o to_o the_o donation_n itself_o the_o immediate_a occasion_n of_o it_o be_v the_o compassion_n of_o this_o religious_a and_o mild_a prince_n towards_o his_o subject_n sore_o infest_a and_o harrassed_a with_o the_o danish_a invasion_n whereupon_o he_o summon_v a_o general_n council_n of_o all_o england_n at_z winchester_z anno_fw-la 855._o wherein_o be_v present_a beorred_a king_n of_o mercia_n and_o edmund_n king_n of_o the_o east-angle_n his_o tributary_n with_o the_o arch-bishop_n of_o canterbury_n and_o york_n and_o all_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o noble_n of_o england_n with_o who_o king_n ethelwolph_n consult_v by_o what_o mean_v they_o may_v best_o avert_v the_o anger_n of_o god_n and_o obtain_v a_o removal_n of_o the_o sore_a judgement_n with_o which_o the_o nation_n be_v scourge_v at_o that_o time_n whereupon_o it_o be_v by_o general_a consent_n there_o determine_v that_o the_o tithe_n throughout_o all_o england_n shall_v be_v grant_v to_o god_n and_o the_o church_n as_o this_o charter_n of_o k._n ethelwolph_n yet_o extant_a in_o ancient_a historian_n do_v testify_v which_o be_v subscribe_v by_o the_o two_o tributary_n king_n the_o bishop_n abbot_n duke_n earl_n and_o nobleman_n and_o consent_v unto_o by_o a_o infinite_a multitude_n of_o other_o faithful_a people_n say_v ingulphus_n §_o 15._o 3_o but_o lest_o there_o shall_v be_v any_o defect_n in_o this_o charter_n we_o will_v show_v how_o it_o have_v be_v confirm_v since_o in_o all_o age_n first_o it_o be_v confirm_v in_o that_o famous_a league_n between_o the_o dane_n and_o saxon_n by_o alfred_n or_o alured_n the_o great_a son_n of_o ethelwolph_n and_o guthum_n the_o first_o baptise_a king_n of_o the_o dane_n an._n 887._o and_o a_o penalty_n add_v for_o such_o as_o shall_v detain_v their_o tithe_n 9_o tithe_n leg_n eccles_n alured_n &_o guth_n c._n 9_o and_o again_o by_o edward_n the_o elder_a who_o be_v son_n of_o alured_n an._n 906._o and_o again_o by_o athelstan_n son_n of_o the_o say_v edward_n in_o the_o council_n of_o gratelane_n an._n 928._o tithe_n also_o by_o the_o name_n of_o decimas_fw-la seminum_fw-la primitias_fw-la be_v again_o enjoin_v by_o edmund_n brother_n of_o athelstane_n in_o a_o great_a council_n of_o the_o clergy_n and_o laity_n at_o london_n an._n 944._o king_n edgar_z in_o open_a senate_n renew_v the_o law_n for_o tithe_n and_o make_v it_o a_o forfeiture_n of_o nine_o part_n to_o detain_v the_o ten_o an._n 967._o and_o in_o his_o canon_n he_o call_v tithe_n thing_n which_o by_o right_o be_v to_o be_v pay_v to_o god_n as_o they_o be_v also_o by_o ethelred_n the_o right_n due_a to_o god_n when_o he_o confirm_v the_o donation_n of_o tithe_n in_o the_o general_n council_n at_o aenham_n an._n 1009._o the_o same_o ratify_v also_o by_o canutus_n and_o king_n edgar_n penalty_n revive_v an._n 1032._o and_o last_o by_o king_n edward_n the_o confessor_n in_o those_o law_n of_o he_o which_o be_v collect_v and_o confirm_v by_o king_n william_n the_o conqueror_n at_o his_o enter_v upon_o the_o english_a crown_n as_o all_o other_o king_n of_o england_n since_o have_v do_v the_o particular_n be_v too_o many_o to_o mention_v and_o the_o thing_n be_v sufficient_o know_v wherefore_o we_o will_v only_o add_v that_o the_o very_o first_o word_n of_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la the_o foundation_n of_o the_o english_a liberty_n confirm_v all_o that_o have_v be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n and_o sir_n hen._n spelman_n affirm_v these_o grant_n have_v be_v ratify_v in_o thirty_o nine_o several_a great_a council_n and_o parliament_n before_o the_o reformation_n and_o we_o all_o know_v that_o our_o protestant_a prince_n have_v confirm_v the_o right_n of_o tithe_n as_o full_o as_o any_o of_o their_o predecessor_n and_o with_o their_o protestant_a parliament_n have_v give_v great_a strength_n and_o security_n to_o the_o clergy_n in_o possession_n of_o they_o than_o ever_o they_o have_v before_o and_o make_v better_a law_n for_o punish_v those_o who_o do_v detain_v they_o now_o if_o all_o this_o add_v to_o the_o antecedent_n divine_a right_n will_v not_o amount_v to_o make_v a_o valid_a deed_n of_o gift_n than_o no_o man_n can_v secure_v any_o thing_n to_o his_o posterity_n for_o this_o donation_n have_v be_v advise_v by_o father_n enjoin_v by_o council_n practise_v by_o foreign_a prince_n solemny_n make_v by_o the_o general_a consent_n of_o the_o three_o estate_n with_o the_o king_n frequent_o confirm_v by_o as_o general_a consent_n in_o every_o age_n and_o the_o benefit_n thereof_o enjoy_v for_o 800_o year_n by_o those_o to_o who_o the_o donation_n be_v make_v and_o thus_o the_o clergy_n have_v a_o second_o title_n to_o the_o tithe_n they_o be_v original_o due_a to_o god_n and_o afterward_o free_o give_v by_o the_o right_a owner_n and_o that_o gift_n confirm_v by_o their_o posterity_n due_a by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n due_a by_o the_o gift_n of_o the_o owner_n and_o allow_v by_o the_o law_n of_o man_n which_o be_v thus_o far_o prove_v i_o hope_v our_o quaker_n trifle_a objection_n will_v now_o easy_o be_v dispel_v §_o 16._o three_o general_a exception_n t._n e._n take_v at_o this_o charter_n first_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o author_n of_o it_o pag._n 289._o and_o here_o he_o affirm_v king_n ethelwolph_n be_v a_o papist_n if_o t._n e._n have_v know_v what_o give_v a_o man_n the_o just_a denomination_n of_o a_o papist_n he_o will_v not_o have_v discourse_v so_o absurd_o for_o it_o be_v not_o every_o one_o that_o agree_v in_o some_o opinion_n with_o the_o roman_a church_n who_o be_v a_o papist_n since_o then_o all_o christian_n in_o the_o world_n will_v be_v papist_n but_o he_o be_v a_o papist_n who_o profess_v himself_o a_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o acknowledge_v the_o pope_n supremacy_n believe_v all_o the_o article_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n faith_n now_o k._n ethelwolph_n do_v never_o profess_v himself_o a_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o he_o and_o his_o successor_n be_v vicarios_fw-la christi_fw-la 8._o christi_fw-la leg._n hyden_n cap._n 8._o own_v no_o supreme_a in_o their_o kingdom_n but_o christ_n as_o be_v learned_o make_v out_o against_o the_o papist_n in_o dr._n basire_n liberty_n of_o the_o britain_n church_n and_o sir_n roger_n twisden_n histor_n vindication_n and_o we_o shall_v full_o prove_v on_o pag._n 300._o that_o he_o do_v not_o hold_v all_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o therefore_o be_v no_o papist_n but_o if_o we_o shall_v grant_v so_o much_o to_o the_o quaker_n that_o ethelwolph_n be_v a_o papist_n yet_o neither_o will_v that_o make_v his_o donation_n of_o tithe_n void_a for_o a_o erroneous_a opinion_n in_o the_o person_n who_o do_v a_o thing_n good_a in_o itself_o as_o we_o have_v prove_v tithe_n to_o be_v do_v not_o make_v the_o act_n void_a and_o if_o all_o the_o good_a act_n of_o papist_n in_o the_o true_a sense_n and_o all_o their_o charter_n and_o donation_n be_v void_a mere_o because_o make_v and_o do_v by_o papist_n then_o all_o the_o charter_n of_o our_o king_n all_o the_o endowment_n of_o hospital_n and_o school_n magna_fw-la charta_fw-la and_o all_o public_a act_n for_o some_o hundred_o of_o year_n before_o k._n henry_n viii_o will_v be_v void_a which_o principle_n will_v destroy_v the_o maintenance_n of_o the_o poor_a the_o privilege_n of_o city_n and_o the_o freedom_n of_o all_o english_a subject_n but_o this_o quaker_n must_v be_v more_o wary_a than_o thus_o to_o unhinge_v all_o establishment_n and_o let_v he_o note_v that_o if_o ethelwolph_n have_v be_v a_o papist_n in_o other_o thing_n yet_o in_o this_o act_n he_o be_v none_o unless_o abraham_n be_v a_o papist_n before_o christ_n time_n and_o origen_n with_o the_o father_n afterward_o yea_o unless_o our_o protestant_a prince_n and_o parliament_n be_v papist_n also_o §_o 17._o second_o he_o object_n p._n 290._o that_o tithe_n be_v give_v to_o maintain_v the_o popish_a clergy_n this_o be_v a_o mistake_n also_o for_o ingulphus_n say_v vniversam_fw-la dotaverat_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la anglicanam_fw-la it_o be_v for_o the_o maintenance_n of_o the_o english_a clergy_n who_o have_v a_o patriarch_n of_o their_o own_o in_o those_o day_n and_o be_v a_o church_n of_o themselves_o not_o hold_v all_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n nor_o
ethelwolph_n do_v this_o alone_a since_o he_o confess_v pag._n 285._o that_o his_o noble_n consent_v to_o the_o gift_n and_o if_o he_o have_v read_v the_o charter_n as_o he_o pretend_v he_o must_v know_v that_o ingulph_n say_v it_o be_v make_v all_o the_o arch-bishop_n and_o bishop_n of_o england_n be_v present_a and_o subscribe_v to_o it_o as_o also_o beorred_a king_n of_o mercia_n and_o edmund_n king_n of_o the_o east-angle_n before_o the_o abbot_n abbess_n duke_n earls_z and_o noble_n of_o the_o whole_a land_n and_o a_o infinite_a multitude_n of_o other_o faithful_a people_n who_o all_o consent_v to_o the_o king_n charter_n and_o the_o man_n of_o dignity_n subscribe_v their_o name_n 350._o name_n ingulph_n apud_fw-la spelm._n p._n 350._o we_o have_v also_o note_v before_o how_o often_o this_o donation_n have_v be_v confirm_v by_o the_o whole_a nation_n representative_a since_o that_o time_n which_o t._n e._n can_v not_o be_v ignorant_a of_o but_o to_o serve_v his_o end_n he_o conceal_v all_o this_o mere_o to_o get_v a_o occasion_n to_o indite_v good_a king_n ethelwolph_n of_o invade_v his_o subject_n property_n §_o 30._o but_o his_o conscience_n accuse_v he_o for_o this_o slander_n in_o pag._n 323._o he_o suppose_v that_o ethelwolph_n do_v it_o by_o general_a consent_n and_o then_o say_v if_o it_o be_v so_o yet_o neither_o can_v he_o single_a nor_o they_o all_o conjoin_v give_v any_o more_o than_o belong_v to_o themselves_o viz_o the_o ten_o part_n of_o their_o land_n or_o of_o the_o yearly_o profit_v for_o their_o own_o life_n but_o to_o make_v a_o grant_n of_o the_o ten_o part_n of_o the_o profit_n of_o the_o land_n for_o ever_o be_v to_o my_o understanding_n say_v he_o utter_o repugnant_a to_o reason_n it_o may_v be_v repugnant_a to_o his_o understanding_n so_o sad_o corrupt_v by_o prejudice_n but_o it_o be_v agreeable_a enough_o to_o the_o reason_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o all_o other_o man_n for_o the_o lord_n in_o fee_n to_o give_v what_o part_n of_o the_o profit_n of_o their_o estate_n they_o please_v for_o ever_o be_v it_o not_o usual_a for_o such_o as_o settle_v their_o estate_n to_o oblige_v their_o heir_n for_o ever_o to_o pay_v out_o of_o it_o a_o six_o eighth_n or_o ten_o part_n of_o the_o rent_n of_o that_o estate_n which_o the_o heir_n many_o hundred_o year_n after_o be_v oblige_v to_o pay_v to_o the_o use_v appoint_v by_o the_o first_o donor_n be_v not_o all_o perpetual_a rent-charge_n and_o grant_n with_o reservation_n of_o free-rent_n with_o many_o donation_n of_o certain_a yearly_a sum_n to_o college_n school_n and_o hospital_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o these_o grant_n of_o such_o a_o part_n of_o the_o profit_n of_o a_o man_n estate_n for_o ever_o the_o lawyer_n will_v deride_v t._n be_v understanding_n in_o the_o law_n as_o much_o as_o we_o do_v his_o skill_n in_o the_o gospel_n and_o they_o will_v inform_v he_o that_o a_o man_n be_v not_o absolute_a master_n of_o his_o estate_n unless_o he_o can_v make_v such_o grant_n as_o these_o but_o that_o which_o stumble_v t.e._n be_v that_o in_o the_o profit_n of_o the_o land_n right_o compute_v the_o labour_n sweat_v care_n charge_v skill_n industry_n diligence_n etc._n etc._n of_o the_o husbandman_n be_v include_v and_o that_o inseparable_o for_o these_o be_v the_o instrumental_a cause_n of_o production_n to_o admit_v then_o a_o power_n in_o any_o man_n to_o give_v the_o tithe_n of_o the_o profit_n beyond_o his_o own_o life_n be_v to_o suppose_v a_o power_n in_o that_o man_n to_o give_v away_o the_o labour_n care_n skill_n charge_n diligence_n and_o industry_n of_o another_o which_o reason_n gainsay_v and_o a_o little_a after_o it_o be_v most_o ridiculous_a this_o be_v his_o main_a argument_n which_o he_o glory_v in_o much_o and_o repeat_v often_o but_o there_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o in_o it_o but_o mistake_v falsehood_n and_o impiety_n for_o if_o t._n e._n will_v grant_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o a_o lord_n to_o lay_v a_o perpetual_a rent-charge_n upon_o his_o estate_n to_o be_v pay_v in_o money_n than_o which_o nothing_o be_v more_o common_a or_o more_o legal_a he_o must_v grant_v it_o be_v as_o lawful_a for_o this_o lord_n to_o charge_v his_o estate_n with_o pay_v the_o ten_o part_n of_o the_o profit_n in_o specie_fw-la for_o do_v not_o the_o raise_v the_o sum_n of_o money_n settle_v by_o rent-charge_n suppose_v 10_o l._n or_o 20_o l._n per_fw-la annum_fw-la include_v the_o labour_n sweat_v care_n charge_v skill_n and_o industry_n of_o the_o husbandman_n as_o well_o as_o the_o prepare_v the_o tithe_n nay_o the_o pay_v a_o rent-charge_n in_o money_n require_v more_o labour_n charge_v and_o pain_n than_o pay_v tithe_n in_o specie_fw-la for_o the_o husbandman_n must_v not_o only_o get_v his_o profit_n together_o but_o carry_v suppose_v his_o corn_n into_o the_o barn_n thresh_v it_o winnow_v it_o and_o carry_v it_o out_o again_o and_o sell_v it_o and_o after_o all_o this_o he_o must_v pay_v this_o money_n for_o which_o such_o a_o proportion_n of_o his_o profit_n be_v sell_v whereas_o tithe_n be_v pay_v in_o specie_fw-la needs_o only_o be_v get_v together_o and_o the_o husbandman_n have_v no_o more_o charge_n nor_o trouble_v with_o it_o and_o beside_o tithe_n be_v a_o more_o equitable_a payment_n by_o far_o than_o a_o certain_a sum_n of_o money_n settle_v by_o rent-charge_n for_o if_o the_o land_n yield_v little_a profit_n the_o priest_n have_v but_o little_a tithe_n but_o rent-charge_n must_v be_v pay_v in_o full_a even_o when_o the_o worst_a year_n come_v without_o any_o consideration_n if_o the_o whole_a profit_n of_o the_o land_n do_v not_o yield_v twice_o as_o much_o the_o utmost_a farthing_n of_o the_o rent-charge_n must_v be_v pay_v now_o let_v any_o rational_a man_n judge_n whether_o the_o grant_n of_o a_o perpetual_a rent-charge_n be_v not_o to_o give_v away_o the_o labour_n charge_v and_o industry_n of_o another_o as_o well_o as_o the_o grant_n of_o tithe_n and_o yet_o i_o think_v t._n e._n be_v not_o so_o bereave_v of_o all_o sense_n that_o he_o will_v say_v such_o rent-charge_n be_v ridiculous_a or_o unreasonable_a beside_o we_o see_v that_o all_o landlord_n who_o let_v long_a lease_n and_o settle_v the_o rent_n on_o their_o young_a child_n or_o more_o distant_a relation_n do_v give_v away_o the_o profit_n of_o the_o husbandman_n labour_n charge_v and_o industry_n not_o only_o the_o ten_o but_o the_o three_o part_n of_o they_o at_o least_o but_o t._n e._n will_v reply_n a_o man_n may_v charge_v his_o tenant_n successive_o with_o such_o a_o payment_n of_o the_o part_n of_o the_o profit_n of_o their_o labour_n because_o he_o afford_v they_o land_n to_o work_v upon_o but_o he_o can_v charge_v his_o heir_n successive_o i_o answer_v that_o the_o lord_n also_o do_v afford_v his_o heir_n land_n to_o raise_v this_o payment_n out_o of_o pray_v how_o come_v this_o present_a possessor_n to_o have_v any_o right_n to_o this_o land_n do_v he_o not_o derive_v his_o right_n from_o his_o forefather_n t._n e._n grant_v they_o may_v have_v sell_v off_o what_o part_n of_o the_o land_n they_o please_v and_o since_o they_o transmit_v it_o entire_a may_v they_o not_o leave_v a_o charge_n upon_o it_o and_o if_o the_o heir_n will_v not_o pay_v the_o charge_n he_o must_v renounce_v the_o land_n also_o for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n in_o all_o law_n that_o the_o burden_n descend_v with_o the_o inheritance_n and_o he_o that_o will_v not_o have_v the_o encumbrance_n must_v not_o have_v the_o benefit_n and_o in_o point_n of_o reason_n why_o have_v not_o the_o father_n as_o good_a right_n to_o oblige_v his_o posterity_n as_o they_o have_v to_o possess_v his_o land_n why_o shall_v not_o the_o father_n be_v obey_v by_o the_o son_n as_o well_o as_o the_o son_n provide_v for_o by_o the_o father_n he_o may_v have_v charge_v his_o posterity_n with_o the_o ten_o part_n of_o the_o best_a year_n profit_v in_o money_n but_o now_o the_o charge_n be_v only_o the_o bare_a ten_o of_o the_o year_n profit_n be_v it_o less_o or_o more_o which_o all_o man_n but_o quaker_n will_v grant_v be_v a_o easy_a charge_n if_o t._n e._n shall_v say_v the_o land_n have_v go_v through_o many_o hand_n since_o i_o answer_v whoever_o buy_v this_o land_n or_o howsoever_o it_o be_v convey_v no_o follow_a owner_n can_v sell_v that_o part_n of_o the_o profit_n which_o he_o never_o have_v convey_v to_o he_o of_o which_o more_o hereafter_o at_o present_v it_o shall_v suffice_v to_o note_v this_o argument_n of_o the_o quaker_n be_v protestatio_fw-la contra_fw-la factum_fw-la and_o so_o signify_v nothing_o at_o all_o it_o be_v a_o attempt_n to_o prove_v that_o can_v be_v do_v which_o be_v do_v as_o well_o in_o this_o as_o in_o other_o like_a case_n and_o that_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v