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england_n bishop_n king_n parliament_n 5,693 5 6.5815 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A86467 The grand question concerning the judicature of the House of Peers, stated and argued And the case of Thomas Skinner merchant, complaining of the East India Company, with the proceedings thereupon, which gave occasion to that question, faithfully related. By a true well-wisher to the peace and good government of the kingdom, and to the dignity and authority of parliaments. Holles, Denzil Holles, Baron, 1599-1680. 1669 (1669) Wing H2459; ESTC R202445 76,537 221

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house_n your_o petitioner_n do_v therefore_o most_o humble_o pray_v that_o your_o honour_n will_v be_v please_v to_o take_v the_o premise_n into_o your_o grave_a consideration_n and_o to_o interpose_v with_o their_o lordship_n for_o your_o petitioner_n relief_n therein_o in_o such_o way_n and_o manner_n as_o to_o your_o great_a wisdom_n shall_v seem_v meet_a and_o your_o petitioner_n as_o in_o duty_n bind_v shall_v pray_v etc._n etc._n sign_v by_o the_o order_n and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o say_a governor_n and_o company_n robert_n blackborne_n secr._n copy_n of_o this_o fly_v about_o be_v in_o every_o man_n pocket_n and_o in_o every_o man_n mouth_n that_o the_o lord_n be_v even_o force_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o it_o yet_o scarce_o can_v believe_v the_o house_n of_o commons_o will_v receive_v such_o a_o petition_n against_o they_o so_o scandalous_a and_o so_o false_a nor_o do_v they_o in_o the_o whole_a debate_n so_o much_o as_o mention_v the_o house_n of_o commons_o but_o 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at_o present_a and_o of_o ill_a consequence_n hereafter_o to_o all_o the_o commons_o of_o england_n can_v the_o tongue_n of_o man_n utter_v more_o reproachful_a and_o stab_a word_n against_o any_o man_n or_o society_n of_o man_n if_o this_o be_v true_a do_v they_o deserve_v to_o live_v who_o be_v guilty_a of_o such_o thing_n to_o continue_v so_o much_o as_o member_n of_o any_o state_n or_o commonwealth_n much_o less_o to_o have_v power_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o it_o certain_o to_o revile_v in_o this_o manner_n and_o throw_v dirt_n upon_o the_o high_a judicatory_a of_o the_o kingdom_n be_v a_o most_o transcendent_a presumption_n and_o of_o a_o most_o dangerous_a consequence_n to_o the_o whole_a nation_n even_o to_o those_o commons_o of_o england_n who_o these_o petitioner_n pretend_v for_o so_o much_o make_v themselves_o as_o it_o be_v their_o patron_n and_o protector_n tribune_n of_o the_o people_n and_o withal_o endeavour_v to_o bring_v a_o odium_n upon_o the_o whole_a peerage_n what_o be_v this_o but_o sow_a sedition_n between_o the_o two_o house_n of_o parliament_n and_o between_o the_o peer_n and_o the_o commons_o of_o england_n and_o what_o can_v it_o tend_v to_o but_o to_o the_o very_a dissolution_n of_o the_o frame_n of_o government_n the_o scripture_n say_v thou_o shall_v not_o speak_v evil_a of_o the_o ruler_n of_o thy_o people_n and_o elihu_n in_o job_n move_v this_o question_n be_v it_o fit_a to_o say_v to_o a_o king_n thou_o be_v wicked_a and_o to_o prince_n you_o be_v ungodly_a yet_o these_o rabshakeh_n dare_v heap_v up_o reproach_n against_o the_o lord_n of_o parliament_n and_o bring_v rail_a accusation_n against_o the_o high_a order_n of_o magistracy_n under_o the_o king_n in_o the_o kingdom_n and_o how_o little_a cause_n be_v give_v they_o for_o this_o the_o precede_a narrative_n of_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o lord_n be_v i_o think_v a_o evident_a demonstration_n their_o lordship_n have_v proceed_v with_o all_o the_o tenderness_n imaginable_a 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committee_n they_o themselves_o in_o their_o answer_n to_o the_o lord_n referree_v appoint_v by_o his_o majesty_n in_o counsel_n have_v offer_v to_o pay_v unto_o skinner_n for_o nutmeg_n white_a pepper_n and_o some_o other_o thing_n which_o have_v be_v unjust_o take_v from_o he_o by_o their_o factor_n and_o have_v be_v bring_v to_o their_o account_n 3160_o dollar_n and_o 1521_o dollar_n more_o they_o offer_v for_o so_o many_o take_v from_o he_o in_o specie_fw-la and_o by_o this_o they_o confess_v they_o have_v do_v he_o wrong_n and_o be_v willing_a to_o give_v he_o some_o reparation_n so_o without_o condemn_v themselves_o they_o can_v not_o say_v the_o lord_n have_v as_o yet_o do_v amiss_o and_o notwithstanding_o all_o this_o moderation_n and_o circumspection_n that_o opprobrious_a rail_a petition_n be_v prefer_v against_o they_o and_o which_o beside_o be_v full_a of_o untruth_n for_o the_o main_a matter_n in_o it_o and_o which_o in_o truth_n have_v carry_v a_o show_n of_o injustice_n 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multitude_n of_o witness_n be_v produce_v by_o they_o and_o all_o full_o hear_v with_o patience_n and_o enough_o acknowledge_v even_o by_o their_o own_o witness_n and_o more_o by_o their_o own_o offer_n former_o mention_v of_o give_v skinner_n so_o many_o thousand_o dollar_n reparation_n which_o they_o have_v then_o declare_v which_o be_v only_o that_o skinner_n shall_v be_v relieve_v a_o second_o untruth_n be_v that_o they_o say_v all_o the_o matter_n complain_v of_o be_v clear_o determinable_a in_o the_o ordinary_a court_n of_o justice_n except_v what_o concern_v the_o island_n whereas_o it_o appear_v there_o be_v likewise_o a_o dwell_a house_n at_o jamby_n and_o a_o warehouse_n by_o the_o riverside_n of_o which_o they_o dispossess_v he_o which_o be_v not_o so_o determinable_a even_o by_o the_o report_n of_o the_o judge_n in_o their_o opinion_n but_o in_o truth_n one_o may_v say_v no_o part_n of_o the_o complaint_n be_v so_o determinable_a they_o say_v untrue_o then_o in_o say_v 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only_o whereas_o the_o lord_n berckley_n of_o berckley_n a_o member_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n be_v likewise_o of_o that_o company_n which_o entitle_v yet_o more_o particular_o that_o house_n to_o the_o cognizance_n of_o the_o whole_a business_n upon_o point_n of_o privilege_n one_o of_o their_o member_n be_v a_o party_n all_o these_o untruth_n be_v in_o matter_n of_o fact_n then_o for_o their_o inference_n upon_o they_o the_o judgement_n they_o give_v against_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n their_o censure_n of_o their_o proceed_n to_o be_v against_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o the_o custom_n of_o parliament_n to_o be_v unusual_a and_o extraordinary_a to_o be_v a_o precedent_n of_o ill_a consequence_n to_o all_o the_o commons_o of_o england_n now_o and_o hereafter_o this_o i_o hope_v no_o man_n will_v say_v to_o have_v truth_n in_o it_o but_o to_o be_v a_o false_a imputation_n and_o a_o slander_n or_o as_o the_o lord_n themselves_o tern_a it_o a_o scandalous_a libel_n against_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n and_o as_o untrue_a it_o be_v what_o they_o say_v in_o the_o close_a of_o their_o petition_n and_o withal_o most_o injurious_a to_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n viz._n that_o the_o petitioner_n have_v no_o way_n of_o relief_n in_o this_o case_n otherwise_o then_o by_o make_v their_o humble_a address_n to_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o whereas_o ever_o since_o parliament_n have_v be_v in_o england_n the_o constant_a practice_n have_v be_v and_o multitude_n of_o precedent_n there_o be_v of_o it_o of_o appeal_n to_o the_o next_o parliament_n from_o any_o judgement_n give_v by_o a_o former_a parliament_n which_o be_v grievous_a and_o unjust_a and_o never_o in_o this_o world_n before_o be_v there_o any_o appeal_n to_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o from_o a_o judgement_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n much_o less_o to_o take_v a_o business_n out_o of_o their_o hand_n or_o give_v a_o stop_n to_o their_o proceed_n before_o they_o be_v come_v to_o a_o 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two_o thousand_o pound_n in_o three_o month_n after_o and_o two_o thousand_o pound_n more_o in_o three_o month_n after_o that_o and_o they_o refer_v to_o the_o committee_n for_o privilege_n to_o examine_v who_o be_v the_o publisher_n and_o disperser_n of_o that_o scandalous_a paper_n or_o petition_n which_o they_o have_v vote_v a_o scandalous_a libel_n and_o to_o make_v report_n thereof_o to_o the_o house_n in_o the_o disquisition_n of_o this_o business_n which_o hold_v many_o day_n at_o the_o committee_n and_o in_o the_o house_n and_o where_o the_o lord_n find_v much_o shuffle_n in_o the_o person_n they_o examine_v who_o be_v servant_n and_o officer_n to_o the_o company_n it_o appear_v at_o last_o that_o the_o petition_n have_v real_o be_v present_v to_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o and_o well_o receive_v by_o that_o house_n that_o it_o have_v be_v prepare_v by_o a_o committee_n of_o the_o company_n that_o sir_n samuel_n barnardiston_n deputy_n governor_n of_o the_o company_n sir_n andrew_n riccard_n mr_n rowland_n winn_n and_o mr._n christopher_n boone_n be_v of_o that_o committee_n and_o actor_n in_o it_o but_o especial_o sir_n samuel_n barnardiston_n the_o most_o active_a man_n who_o give_v no_o satisfaction_n to_o their_o lordship_n in_o his_o answer_n which_o the_o other_o do_v and_o by_o their_o submission_n obtain_v favour_n but_o the_o lord_n adjudge_v he_o guilty_a of_o contrive_v that_o scandalous_a paper_n and_o fine_v he_o 300_o l._n to_o the_o king_n and_o to_o remain_v a_o prisoner_n in_o the_o custody_n of_o the_o black-rod_n till_o he_o pay_v his_o fine_a and_o now_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o own_v the_o cause_n and_o seem_v not_o only_o to_o justify_v these_o act_n of_o the_o east-india_n company_n but_o to_o lay_v blame_n upon_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n and_o pass_v certain_a vote_n to_o that_o purpose_n which_o they_o bring_v up_o to_o the_o lord_n and_o deliver_v at_o a_o conference_n and_o begin_v with_o tell_v the_o lord_n that_o they_o 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say_a governor_n and_o company_n the_o say_a cause_n come_v before_o that_o house_n original_o only_o upon_o the_o complaint_n of_o the_o say_v skinner_n and_o be_v a_o common_a plea_n be_v not_o agreeable_a to_o the_o law_n of_o this_o land_n and_o tend_v to_o deprive_v the_o subject_a of_o his_o right_n ease_n and_o benefit_n due_a to_o he_o by_o the_o say_a law_n 2._o that_o the_o lord_n take_v cognizano_n of_o the_o right_n and_o title_n of_o the_o island_n in_o the_o petition_n mention_v and_o give_v damage_n thereupon_o against_o the_o say_a governor_n and_o company_n be_v not_o war_n ant_v by_o the_o say_a law_n of_o this_o land_n the_o lord_n be_v much_o surprise_v with_o these_o vote_n which_o give_v they_o cause_n to_o make_v a_o serious_a reflection_n upon_o what_o have_v pass_v in_o the_o business_n of_o skinner_n and_o to_o take_v a_o due_a examination_n of_o all_o circumstance_n the_o way_n that_o it_o come_v unto_o they_o at_o first_o upon_o the_o king_n recommendation_n their_o own_o right_a to_o take_v cognizance_n of_o judge_n and_o determine_v and_o give_v redress_n in_o cause_n of_o that_o nature_n then_o the_o merit_n of_o this_o particular_a cause_n a_o poor_a man_n oppress_v by_o great_a one_o very_o unable_a to_o contest_v with_o they_o at_o law_n and_o so_o very_o unlikely_a there_o to_o receive_v relief_n and_o have_v any_o reparation_n from_o they_o admit_v it_o have_v be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o law_n to_o have_v help_v he_o which_o it_o be_v not_o and_o the_o manner_n of_o their_o proceed_v in_o the_o hear_n examine_v and_o determine_v of_o it_o in_o which_o they_o have_v use_v all_o the_o moderation_n imaginable_a go_v by_o step_n and_o dgree_n take_v first_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o judge_n to_o know_v if_o the_o man_n be_v relievable_a else_o where_o who_o say_v he_o be_v but_o in_o part_n and_o not_o for_o all_o relievable_a in_o westminster-hall_n which_o make_v they_o undertake_v it_o then_o give_v way_n to_o and_o bear_v with_o many_o delay_n of_o the_o east-india_n company_n suffer_v the_o business_n upon_o several_a pretence_n and_o excuse_n of_o they_o to_o be_v put_v off_o many_o day_n when_o their_o lordship_n be_v prepare_v to_o hear_v it_o and_o have_v lay_v aside_o other_o business_n for_o it_o by_o which_o mean_v a_o whole_a session_n be_v lose_v to_o the_o poor_a man_n and_o when_o at_o the_o next_o meeting_n of_o the_o parliament_n it_o be_v hear_v in_o which_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o time_n and_o very_o many_o day_n be_v spend_v yet_o not_o present_o to_o come_v to_o a_o resolution_n but_o appoint_v a_o day_n for_o the_o debate_n of_o it_o and_o when_o that_o day_n come_v not_o to_o give_v a_o full_a judgement_n but_o only_o pass_v a_o previous_a vote_n that_o some_o relief_n be_v fit_a to_o be_v give_v and_o take_v long_o time_n to_o consider_v
3._o n._n 96._o it_o be_v there_o specify_v how_o in_o the_o parliament_n before_o one_o hugh_z staffolk_n have_v be_v accuse_v of_o divers_a extortion_n and_o that_o a_o commission_n be_v then_o grant_v to_o the_o earl_n of_o suffolk_n and_o sir_n john_n cavendish_n to_o inquire_v into_o it_o who_o so_o have_v do_v and_o have_v find_v he_o guiltless_a by_o 18_o inquest_n which_o sir_n john_n cavendish_n do_v in_o that_o present_a parliament_n witness_v to_o be_v true_a by_o all_o this_o it_o appear_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n end_v not_o with_o the_o parliament_n but_o their_o judgement_n still_o continue_v in_o full_a force_n and_o power_n and_o they_o may_v appoint_v person_n to_o see_v they_o execute_v if_o they_o please_v and_o whereas_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o do_v not_o deny_v they_o a_o power_n of_o judicature_n upon_o writ_n of_o error_n and_o upon_o appeal_v will_v not_o the_o same_o objection_n lie_v as_o well_o against_o their_o judgement_n in_o those_o case_n for_o seldom_o that_o they_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n before_o the_o parliament_n rise_v so_o it_o take_v away_o their_o whole_a judicature_n as_o in_o truth_n all_o the_o other_o objection_n will_v do_v can_v they_o be_v make_v good_a and_o whereas_o it_o be_v say_v that_o none_o of_o the_o king_n court_n can_v give_v remedy_n where_o the_o king_n writ_n can_v not_o run_v and_o where_o his_o majesty_n sovereignty_n do_v not_o come_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o peer_n can_v have_v no_o place_n it_o be_v answer_v that_o there_o chief_o the_o power_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n be_v to_o give_v remedy_n because_o it_o only_o can_v as_o for_o treason_n till_o the_o statute_n of_o 26_o h._n 8._o c._n 13.32_o h._n 8._o c._n 2._o and_o 5_o e._n 6._o c._n 11._o which_o have_v make_v they_o tryable_a within_o the_o realm_n and_o all_o misdemeanour_n commit_v in_o foreign_a part_n which_o never_o be_v nor_o yet_o be_v tryable_a at_o the_o common_a law_n of_o this_o there_o be_v multitude_n of_o precedent_n gomeniz_n weston_n segrave_n hall_n richill_n etc._n etc._n and_o here_o within_o the_o kingdom_n the_o the_o king_n writ_n do_v not_o original_o run_v in_o all_o place_n as_o for_o example_n in_o the_o counties_n palatine_n yet_o no_o man_n will_v deny_v the_o authotity_n of_o the_o lord_n in_o parliament_n take_v place_n there_o 9_o r._n 2._o n._n 13._o the_o duke_n of_o lancaster_n complain_v of_o sir_n john_n stanley_n for_o not_o sue_v out_o his_o livery_n for_o the_o manor_n of_o latham_n in_o the_o duke_n court_n of_o chancery_n and_o yet_o enter_v upon_o it_o they_o declare_v his_o entry_n unlawful_a and_o order_v he_o to_o sue_v out_o his_o livery_n in_o the_o duke_n court._n the_o king_n writ_n do_v not_o run_v there_o but_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o lord_n do_v another_o objection_n be_v that_o all_o proceed_n ought_v to_o be_v in_o latin_a and_o n●_n record_v to_o be_v in_o english_a but_o the_o lord_n have_v think_v that_o none_o have_v ever_o yet_o doubt_v but_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n have_v be_v a_o court_n of_o record_n where_o all_o the_o proceed_n &_o order_n &_o judgement_n have_v be_v in_o english_a ever_o since_o h._n 6●…_n time_n all_o act_n of_o parliament_n in_o english_a all_o impeachment_n even_o those_o bring_v up_o by_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o the_o proceed_n and_o the_o sentence_n all_o in_o english_a the_o ancient_a record_n be_v in_o french_a and_o the_o plead_n likewise_o till_o the_o statute_n of_o 36_o e._n 3._o which_o appoint_v plead_n to_o be_v in_o english_a and_o to_o be_v enter_v and_o enroll_v in_o latin_a so_o the_o print_n say_v but_o in_o sir_n robert_n cotton_v abridgement_n of_o the_o record_v it_o be_v observe_v that_o the_o record_n itself_o warrant_v no_o such_o thing_n then_o the_o chancery_n proceed_n be_v all_o in_o english_a the_o plead_n order_n and_o decree_n yet_o it_o will_v not_o be_v deny_v but_o that_o be_v a_o court_n of_o record_n sir_n edward_n coke_n who_o alone_o be_v of_o a_o other_o opinion_n concern_v the_o chancery_n and_o upon_o that_o ground_n because_o the_o proceed_v be_v in_o english_a yet_o make_v the_o house_n of_o commons_o itself_o a_o court_n of_o record_n where_o every_o body_n know_v all_o be_v in_o english_a jnst_n 4._o part_n p._n 23._o so_o he_o do_v not_o sibi_fw-la constare_fw-la the_o last_o objection_n and_o indeed_o the_o the_o chief_a one_o if_o true_a be_v that_o it_o deprive_v the_o subject_a of_o the_o benefit_n of_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la which_o will_v have_v all_o man_n to_o be_v try_v by_o their_o peer_n or_o by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o the_o 25_o of_o ed._n 3._o c._n 4._o that_o none_o shall_v be_v apprehend_v upon_o petition_n to_o the_o king_n or_o counsel_n and_o counsel_n here_o they_o interpret_v to_o be_v the_o house_n of_o lord_n but_o upon_o indictment_n or_o presentment_n or_o by_o writ_n original_a and_o the_o 42._o of_o e._n 3._o which_o be_v to_o the_o same_o purpose_n it_o be_v urge_v further_a that_o no_o writ_n be_v ever_o make_v returnable_a coram_fw-la dominis_n spiritualibus_fw-la et_fw-la temporalibus_fw-la and_o it_o be_v say_v in_o regard_n of_o the_o island_n be_v in_o a_o foreign_a prince_n jurisdiction_n that_o it_o ought_v to_o have_v be_v do_v by_o act_n of_o parliament_n for_o that_o no_o court_n of_o his_o majesty_n can_v give_v remedy_n where_o his_o majesty_n writ_n can_v not_o run_v nor_o can_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n have_v place_n there_o a_o other_o observation_n they_o have_v upon_o lex_fw-la terrae_fw-la in_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la that_o in_o the_o argument_n of_o the_o king_n learned_a counsel_n 3_o car._n they_o make_v lex_fw-la terrae_fw-la to_o be_v the_o pleasure_n of_o the_o king_n and_o the_o lord_n be_v desire_v to_o consider_v upon_o this_o if_o by_o argue_v that_o the_o proceed_n of_o their_o house_n be_v maintain_v to_o be_v secundum_fw-la legem_fw-la terrae_fw-la it_o may_v not_o as_o well_o be_v say_v that_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la will_v have_v man_n to_o be_v try_v per_fw-la judicium_fw-la parium_n aut_fw-la per_fw-la legem_fw-la terrae_fw-la that_o be_v by_o the_o will_n of_o the_o lord_n this_o be_v the_o substance_n of_o what_o be_v most_o material_o urge_v against_o the_o lord_n at_o that_o conference_n some_o other_o thing_n be_v say_v rather_o to_o entertain_v the_o bystander_n then_o for_o any_o thing_n else_o as_o the_o question_n ask_v how_o the_o lord_n shall_v see_v further_o beyond_o sea_n then_o other_o man_n indeed_o the_o lord_n think_v they_o may_v see_v as_o far_o as_o other_o man_n and_o as_o far_o as_o the_o court_n of_o chancery_n or_o any_o other_o court_n but_o never_o undertake_v to_o see_v further_o but_o they_o think_v if_o some_o may_v have_v their_o will_n they_o may_v be_v lay_v so_o low_a that_o they_o shall_v then_o see_v but_o a_o very_a little_a way_n but_o that_o be_v not_o yet_o and_o another_o pretty_a dilemma_n be_v make_v which_o be_v this_o be_v the_o lord_n bind_v to_o receive_v all_o petition_n or_o not_o if_o bind_v they_o may_v refuse_v none_o for_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la say_v nulli_fw-la negabimus_fw-la and_o the_o king_n be_v debtor_n justitiae_fw-la to_o all_o his_o subject_n if_o they_o be_v not_o bind_v than_o they_o must_v be_v partial_a to_o receive_v some_o and_o dismiss_v other_o but_o this_o argumentum_fw-la bicorne_n hurt_v with_o neither_o horn_n for_o the_o lord_n in_o these_o very_a precedent_n bring_v by_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o in_o ed._n 1._o ed._n 2._o time_n do_v not_o deny_v justice_n when_o they_o send_v the_o petitioner_n unto_o those_o several_a court_n where_o they_o shall_v receive_v it_o one_o to_o the_o chancery_n a_o other_o to_o the_o common_a law_n and_o direct_v one_o to_o bring_v such_o a_o action_n another_o a_o differ_v one_o according_a to_o their_o several_a case_n and_o in_o those_o multitude_n of_o precedent_n bring_v by_o the_o lord_n where_o cause_n have_v be_v retain_v and_o determine_v in_o that_o house_n they_o can_v not_o just_o be_v charge_v with_o partiality_n when_o they_o be_v move_v thereunto_o by_o some_o thing_n extraordinary_a in_o those_o case_n which_o require_v their_o relief_n and_o that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v have_v else_o where_o and_o a_o question_n may_v be_v put_v on_o the_o other_o side_n whither_o it_o can_v be_v believe_v that_o partiality_n be_v impute_v to_o all_o the_o parliament_n heretofore_o which_o at_o their_o first_o sit_v appoint_v committee_n tryer_n of_o petition_n for_o england_n for_o ireland_n for_o gascony_n nay_o for_o flanders_n where_o the_o king_n have_v no_o dominion_n and_o sometime_o in_o general_n for_o all_o place_n beyond_o the_o sea_n to_o examine_v which_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v receive_v
of_o their_o not_o judge_v commoner_n be_v apparent_o prove_v by_o the_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n in_o all_o succeed_a time_n and_o one_o thing_n more_o will_v be_v take_v notice_n of_o in_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n at_o that_o time_n after_o their_o precipitate_a and_o illegal_a condemnation_n of_o those_o person_n without_o ever_o call_v they_o to_o answer_v the_o earl_n of_o march_n a_o peer_n of_o the_o realm_n be_v condemn_v and_o execute_v as_o well_o as_o the_o commoner_n and_o this_o be_v look_v upon_o as_o a_o precedent_n of_o ill_a consequence_n for_o the_o peerage_n and_o therefore_o they_o will_v have_v a_o law_n to_o prevent_v it_o and_o that_o the_o noble_n of_o the_o land_n shall_v not_o be_v put_v to_o answer_v but_o in_o open_a parliament_n by_o their_o peer_n which_o they_o long_o endeavour_v before_o they_o can_v obtain_v it_o so_o as_o in_o 15._o ed._n 3._o n._n 6._o they_o adjourn_v the_o parliament_n several_a day_n upon_o that_o point_n and_o at_o last_o appoint_v four_o earl_n four_z bishop_n four_o baron_n to_o draw_v it_o up_o into_o form_n and_o get_v it_o pass_v into_o a_o act_n but_o two_o year_n after_o the_o king_n get_v that_o act_n to_o be_v repeal_v and_o so_o far_o they_o likewise_o take_v care_n of_o commoner_n in_o that_o parliament_n of_o 15._o ed._n 3._o as_o to_o have_v it_o enact_v also_o that_o no_o man_n shall_v be_v impeach_v by_o commandment_n without_o process_n of_o law_n these_o be_v act_n of_o parliament_n and_o law_n which_o do_v bind_v but_o the_o other_o of_o their_o judge_a none_n but_o peer_n be_v a_o mere_a particular_a order_n of_o the_o house_n a_o agreement_n betwixt_o the_o king_n &_o they_o which_o be_v no_o way_n bind_v to_o posterity_n and_o alterable_a still_o at_o pleasure_n by_o the_o same_o house_n that_o make_v it_o another_o battery_n raise_v by_o that_o author_n against_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n be_v from_o the_o statute_n of_o appeal_n 1_o h._n 4._o c._n 14._o and_o with_o that_o he_o will_v overthrow_v the_o force_n of_o that_o precedent_n of_o john_n hall_n condemn_v by_o the_o lord_n in_o that_o first_o year_n of_o h._n 4._o for_o the_o death_n of_o the_o duke_n of_o gloucester_n in_o the_o 21_o of_o r._n 2._o as_o if_o that_o power_n be_v now_o take_v from_o they_o by_o that_o act_n and_o that_o the_o commons_o by_o it_o have_v take_v care_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v so_o do_v by_o they_o any_o more_o for_o so_o he_o say_v p._n 23._o which_o by_o his_o leave_n concern_v nothing_o the_o proceed_n against_o hall_n and_o will_v less_o i_o may_v say_v concern_v the_o present_a question_n of_o the_o proceed_n of_o this_o house_n of_o lord_n in_o the_o case_n of_o skinner_n for_o that_o statute_n provide_v only_o for_o trial_n of_o appeal_n where_o a_o private_a person_n next_o of_o kin_n be_v or_o shall_v be_v prosecutor_n which_o be_v not_o in_o hall_n case_n the_o prosecution_n be_v in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n at_o the_o king_n suit_n it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o 21_o of_o r._n 2._o a_o horrible_a abuse_n have_v be_v in_o point_n of_o appeal_n certain_a lord_n not_o by_o law_n capable_a of_o it_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o be_v appellant_n and_o in_o their_o own_o name_n acouse_v in_o parliament_n several_a person_n peer_n of_o the_o realm_n and_o commoner_n of_o divers_a treason_n and_o murder_n make_v themselves_o judge_n and_o party_n and_o condemn_v they_o to_o die_v without_z nay_o against_o all_o form_n of_o law_n &_o rule_v of_o justice_n by_z which_o mean_v many_o innocent_a man_n lose_v both_o life_n and_o estate_n this_o it_o be_v that_o be_v provide_v for_o by_o that_o statute_n and_o care_v take_v it_o shall_v be_v so_o no_o more_o not_o the_o ordinary_a prosecution_n of_o offender_n in_o the_o king_n name_n as_o hall_n be_v though_o one_o particular_a in_o that_o trial_n be_v confess_v to_o have_v be_v most_o irregular_a and_o illegal_a which_o be_v examine_v he_o against_o himself_o upon_o oath_n but_o that_o be_v not_o material_a to_o the_o point_n in_o question_n which_o be_v whether_o the_o statute_n of_o appeal_n forbid_v such_o trial_n as_o assure_o it_o do_v not_o nor_o any_o of_o those_o former_o instance_a in_o to_o have_v pass_v in_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n and_o least_o of_o all_o can_v it_o concern_v the_o late_a proceed_n in_o the_o business_n of_o skinner_n and_o the_o east_n india_n company_n in_o which_o there_o be_v no_o charge_n either_o of_o treason_n or_o felony_n where_o a_o appeal_n only_o can_v take_v place_n to_o bring_v it_o within_o that_o statute_n in_o the_o same_o 23d_o page_n a_o other_o argument_n be_v use_v against_o this_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o peer_n in_o which_o that_o author_n have_v certain_o miss_v his_o mark_n for_o nothing_o can_v be_v produce_v that_o make_v more_o for_o that_o jurisdiction_n he_o say_v that_o the_o subject_a of_o england_n have_v moderate_v parliament_n and_o by_o express_a word_n determine_v that_o some_o thing_n can_v be_v do_v in_o parliament_n as_o that_o any_o shall_v be_v impeach_v there_o of_o that_o concern_v his_o francktenement_n or_o hereditament_n and_o vouch_v for_o his_o authority_n rot._n parl._n 10._o h._n 6._o n._n 35._o where_o indeed_o there_o be_v such_o a_o desire_n of_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o that_o none_o shall_v be_v compel_v to_o answer_v in_o parliament_n concern_v his_o francktenement_n but_o let_v he_o tell_v we_o how_o they_o speed_v with_o their_o desire_n if_o their_o petition_n be_v grant_v to_o make_v it_o a_o law_n and_o bind_v far_o from_o it_o the_o answer_n be_v le_fw-fr roy_fw-fr saduisera_fw-la the_o king_n will_v advise_v which_o in_o parliamentary_a language_n be_v a_o flat_a denial_n so_o than_o no_o alteration_n be_v make_v of_o what_o be_v former_o the_o usage_n and_o power_n of_o parliament_n but_o all_o continue_a as_o it_o be_v before_o and_o that_o before_o they_o do_v in_o parliament_n try_v and_o judge_v such_o matter_n be_v apparent_a by_o the_o desire_n of_o the_o commons_o that_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v so_o hereafter_o for_o if_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v their_o desire_n it_o shall_v be_v no_o more_o so_o be_v ridiculous_a but_o it_o be_v so_o it_o seem_v and_o their_o desire_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v alter_v be_v reject_v leave_v it_o in_o the_o same_o state_n it_o be_v that_o the_o parliament_n may_v continue_v still_o to_o do_v it_o and_o by_o the_o parliament_n in_o these_o case_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v only_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n for_o there_o single_o lie_v the_o judicial_a power_n as_o be_v confess_v and_o acknowledge_v by_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o themselves_o 1._o h._n 4._o n._n 79._o so_o it_o be_v in_o the_o record_n but_o in_o the_o exact_a abridgement_n it_o be_v n._n 80._o that_o all_o judgement_n appertain_v to_o the_o king_n and_o lord_n and_o not_o to_o they_o but_o when_o out_o of_o especial_a grace_n some_o be_v communicate_v unto_o they_o and_o therefore_o they_o there_o desire_v that_o the_o record_n may_v be_v so_o enter_v as_o they_o may_v not_o be_v make_v party_n to_o they_o so_o careful_a they_o be_v then_o not_o to_o seem_v to_o encroach_v upon_o that_o power_n and_o whereas_o the_o author_n of_o that_o pamphlet_n will_v make_v a_o difference_n upon_o the_o personal_a presence_n of_o the_o king_n in_o those_o time_n in_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n that_o though_o they_o may_v do_v it_o then_o in_o some_o case_n it_o follow_v not_o the_o lord_n may_v do_v it_o alone_o the_o king_n not_o there_o it_o be_v but_o a_o fancy_n of_o he_o make_v a_o difference_n where_o in_o truth_n there_o be_v none_o i_o have_v prove_v it_o before_o that_o the_o court_n be_v the_o same_o be_v the_o king_n present_a or_o absent_a the_o king_n in_o person_n can_v judge_v no_o man_n nor_o dispose_v of_o no_o man_n life_n or_o estate_n therefore_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n that_o the_o king_n can_v do_v no_o wrong_n the_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o of_o himself_o and_o by_o his_o own_o particular_a and_o personal_a authority_n can_v give_v away_o no_o man_n right_n no_o not_o any_o one_o pretend_v right_a where_o a_o man_n have_v only_o a_o possession_n though_o without_o right_n the_o king_n alone_o in_o propria_fw-la persona_fw-la can_v give_v no_o rule_n in_o it_o but_o it_o must_v be_v try_v in_o one_o of_o his_o court_n and_o his_o judge_n and_o minister_n who_o he_o entrust_v with_o his_o regal_a power_n that_o with_o which_o he_o be_v himself_o invest_v in_o his_o politic_a capacity_n and_o which_o he_o convey_v to_o they_o make_v they_o thereby_o the_o dispenser_n of_o his_o royal_a justice_n unto_o all_o his_o subject_n they_o must_v be_v
which_o not_o and_o those_o parliament_n that_o the_o modus_fw-la parliamenti_fw-la speak_v of_o when_o a_o little_a before_o the_o rise_n of_o the_o parliament_n proclamation_n be_v make_v in_o public_a place_n to_o know_v if_o any_o have_v business_n to_o the_o parliament_n if_o any_o have_v petition_v the_o parliament_n &_o their_o petition_n have_v not_o be_v answer_v certain_o those_o parliament_n than_o do_v not_o apprehend_v to_o be_v reproach_v either_o with_o partiality_n or_o denial_n of_o justice_n and_o i_o will_v ask_v this_o further_a if_o they_o can_v think_v that_o such_o a_o committee_n of_o tryer_n will_v have_v reject_v skinner_n petition_n and_o have_v say_v the_o lord_n can_v take_v no_o cognizance_n of_o your_o business_n because_o it_o be_v concern_v thing_n do_v beyond_o sea_n when_o themselves_o be_v a_o committee_n appoint_v only_o for_o such_o business_n but_o to_o let_v these_o sarcasme_n pass_v and_o see_v rather_o what_o be_v say_v and_o may_v be_v say_v to_o the_o more_o solid_a objection_n concern_v magna_fw-la charta_fw-la and_o those_o other_o statute_n which_o they_o will_v have_v to_o condemn_v the_o proceed_n of_o the_o lord_n first_o it_o may_v be_v observe_v as_o a_o thing_n very_o strange_a that_o in_o above_o 400_o year_n since_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la be_v first_o make_v a_o law_n it_o be_v never_o till_o now_o find_v out_o that_o the_o lord_n have_v break_v that_o law_n by_o the_o exercise_n of_o this_o jurisdiction_n nor_o be_v they_o ever_o charge_v with_o it_o before_o but_o beside_o do_v they_o by_o this_o any_o more_o break_v it_o than_o the_o court_n of_o chancery_n which_o by_o a_o decree_n dispose_v of_o a_o man_n land_n or_o the_o court_n of_o the_o constable_n and_o martial_n which_o take_v away_o a_o man_n life_n or_o any_o other_o court_n where_o the_o judge_n for_o a_o contempt_n present_o send_v a_o man_n to_o prison_n or_o clap_v a_o fine_a on_o his_o head_n so_o take_v both_o person_n and_o estate_n or_o the_o same_o house_n of_o lord_n when_o it_o commit_v a_o man_n upon_o a_o impeachment_n of_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o judges_z and_o condemn_v he_o here_o be_v no_o judicium_fw-la parium_n that_o be_v most_o certain_a nor_o lex_fw-la terrae_fw-la if_o you_o take_v it_o for_o a_o original_a writ_n and_o yet_o no_o man_n will_v say_v any_o of_o this_o be_v contrary_n to_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la why_o then_o may_v not_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n when_o it_o punish_v a_o man_n for_o rob_v and_o assault_v his_o fellow_n subject_n in_o as_o strange_a country_n which_o put_v the_o business_n out_o of_o the_o cognizance_n of_o the_o ordinary_a court_n of_o justice_n receive_v as_o favourable_a a_o construction_n it_o can_v not_o be_v say_v that_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o by_o their_o take_a cognizance_n of_o a_o fact_n &_o by_o their_o previous_a examination_n of_o it_o and_o declaration_n upon_o it_o give_v it_o the_o denomination_n of_o treason_n or_o of_o any_o other_o lesser_a crime_n can_v create_v a_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n which_o it_o have_v not_o before_o and_o give_v it_o new_a power_n and_o authority_n to_o pass_v a_o condemnation_n upon_o the_o guilty_a person_n yet_o be_v it_o the_o ordinary_a practice_n of_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o who_o have_v a_o grand_a committee_n of_o grievance_n for_o that_o purpose_n to_o impeach_v man_n so_o before_o the_o lord_n they_o can_v receive_v not_o long_o since_o a_o petition_n of_o one_o tailor_n complain_v against_o the_o lord_n mordant_n for_o oppression_n and_o falss_o imprisonment_n and_o the_o injurious_a take_v away_o of_o a_o office_n from_o he_o at_o windsor_n all_o which_o be_v proper_o tryable_a in_o westminster-hall_n yet_o they_o can_v bring_v this_o up_o to_o the_o lord_n and_o crave_v reparation_n and_o damage_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o commons_o of_o england_n and_o the_o lord_n must_v not_o though_o at_o the_o king_n recommendation_n receive_v a_o petition_n from_o skinner_n and_o give_v he_o relief_n for_o his_o whole_a estate_n by_o violence_n and_o with_o a_o strong_a hand_n take_v from_o he_o part_n at_o sea_n part_n upon_o land_n in_o a_o strange_a country_n in_o neither_o of_o which_o the_o court_n of_o westminister_n can_v afford_v he_o any_o help_n for_o this_o must_v be_v against_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la so_o rather_o than_o the_o lord_n shall_v do_v it_o this_o must_v be_v a_o failer_z of_o justice_n in_o the_o land_n the_o king_n shall_v not_o be_v able_a to_o protect_v his_o subject_n the_o oppressor_n shall_v go_v free_a and_o the_o cry_n of_o the_o oppress_a shall_v go_v up_o to_o heaven_n for_o judgement_n upon_o the_o land_n because_o he_o find_v not_o justice_n in_o it_o for_o his_o relief_n but_o i_o remember_v what_o the_o gentleman_n of_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o say_v at_o the_o conference_n that_o therefore_o the_o lord_n shall_v not_o have_v give_v relief_n in_o this_o case_n because_o there_o be_v no_o remedy_n at_o all_o at_o law_n this_o objection_n have_v be_v already_o answer_v therefore_o i_o shall_v not_o repeat_v it_o here_o only_o use_v one_o argument_n more_o ad_fw-la hominum_fw-la that_o they_o forget_v what_o themselves_o have_v do_v this_o very_a parliament_n entertain_v a_o complaint_n of_o one_o farmer_n against_o the_o lord_n willoughby_n who_o be_v since_o dead_a for_o dispossess_v he_o of_o his_o estate_n and_o other_o wrong_n do_v he_o in_o the_o barbados_n which_o can_v not_o be_v try_v in_o westminster-hall_n which_o yet_o they_o be_v prepare_v to_o bring_v up_o to_o the_o lord_n by_o way_n of_o impeachment_n if_o the_o lord_n willoughby_n have_v not_o dye_v and_o there_o be_v reason_n to_o believe_v that_o if_o skinner_n have_v in_o the_o like_a manner_n apply_v himself_o to_o they_o there_o have_v be_v no_o breach_n of_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la nor_o no_o exception_n take_v at_o the_o great_a charge_n of_o the_o subject_a appeal_n to_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o and_o prosecution_n there_o though_o the_o charge_n be_v every_o whit_n as_o great_a and_o become_v much_o great_a to_o the_o party_n that_o prosecute_v for_o when_o he_o have_v do_v there_o than_o he_o must_v begin_v again_o in_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n so_o the_o charge_n be_v double_a and_o the_o judgement_n when_o it_o come_v be_v never_o a_o whit_n more_o in_o latin_a to_o make_v it_o a_o record_n then_o if_o the_o business_n have_v begin_v first_o in_o the_o lord_n house_n &_o as_o much_o be_v it_o without_o jury_n or_o appeal_n and_o no_o less_o danger_n of_o the_o non-execution_n of_o the_o judgement_n after_o the_o rise_n of_o the_o parliament_n in_o fine_a all_o that_o be_v say_v against_o the_o lord_n proceed_n now_o may_v as_o well_o be_v say_v against_o they_o then_o and_o to_o say_v the_o truth_n if_o it_o be_v well_o consider_v it_o will_v be_v find_v that_o the_o consequence_n of_o this_o opposition_n shall_v it_o work_v its_o effect_n and_o prevail_v will_v be_v the_o overturning_a of_o the_o very_a foundation_n of_o all_o authority_n of_o parliament_n that_o it_o may_v then_o well_o be_v say_v of_o the_o whole_a parliament_n that_o it_o do_v sit_v only_o to_o make_v law_n and_o give_v subsidy_n but_o all_o this_o prove_v not_o the_o exercise_n of_o the_o lord_n judicature_n to_o be_v warrant_v by_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la it_o only_o say_v that_o other_o court_n and_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o itself_o do_v as_o bad_a which_o be_v no_o justification_n of_o the_o lord_n for_o to_o err_v with_o company_n be_v not_o to_o be_v free_a from_o fault_n let_v we_o then_o see_v what_o may_v be_v say_v to_o clear_v they_o all_o but_o principal_o and_o chief_o this_o judicature_n of_o the_o house_n of_o peer_n which_o be_v the_o mark_n shoot_v at_o and_o to_o do_v this_o we_o must_v examine_v the_o disjunctive_a proposition_n in_o magna_fw-la charta_fw-la which_o say_v that_o every_o man_n shall_v be_v try_v per_fw-la legale_fw-la judicium_fw-la parium_n suorum_fw-la vel_fw-la per_fw-la legem_fw-la terrae_fw-la for_o if_o the_o lord_n judge_v by_o either_o of_o these_o they_o be_v well_o enough_o and_o sir_n ed._n coke_n shall_v determine_v the_o question_n who_o no_o man_n can_v suspect_v of_o partiality_n for_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n he_o tell_v we_o in_o his_o 2._o inst_z f._n 51._o that_o lex_fw-la terrae_fw-la be_v lex_fw-la angliae_fw-la not_o voluntas_fw-la regis_fw-la as_o the_o commons_o say_v the_o king_n counsel_n will_v have_v it_o to_o be_v 3_o car._n and_o less_o voluntas_fw-la dominorum_fw-la fot_o it_o be_v not_o in_o a_o arbitrary_a way_n the_o lord_n proceed_v but_o according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n to_o punish_v nothing_o but_o what_o the_o law_n make_v punishable_a and_o judge_v every_o thing_n according_a to_o right_n secundum_fw-la aequum_fw-la et_fw-la bonum_fw-la so_o