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england_n bishop_n great_a time_n 2,730 5 3.1506 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A19149 A second manuduction, for Mr. Robinson. Or a confirmation of the former, in an ansvver to his manumission Ames, William, 1576-1633. 1615 (1615) STC 556; ESTC S115272 26,714 36

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possible_o stand_v 1._o all_o the_o minister_n be_v make_v &_o appoint_v by_o the_o bishop_n if_o therefore_o the_o bishop_n be_v take_v away_o how_o can_v the_o minister_n remain_v the_o same_o take_v away_o the_o correlative_a &_o relation_n cease_v trew_n the_o relation_n cease_v but_o be_v that_o external_a relation_n unto_o a_o efficient_a cause_n any_o part_n of_o the_o substance_n or_o essence_n of_o the_o ministry_n i_o have_v think_v that_o the_o substance_n &_o essence_n of_o a_o thing_n have_v consist_v in_o matter_n &_o form_n &_o not_o in_o such_o external_a relation_n marriage_n be_v also_o make_v as_o mr._n r._n affirm_v by_o bishop_n authority_n take_v away_o bishop_n therefore_o &_o by_o this_o reason_n the_o marriage_n shall_v not_o remain_v the_o same_o for_o substance_n which_o they_o be_v now_o licence_n for_o teach_v school_n &_o in_o many_o place_n for_o practise_v of_o physic_n be_v give_v by_o the_o bishop_n &_o their_o officer_n take_v away_o the_o bishop_n 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the_o law_n that_o bishop_n be_v the_o king_n spiritual_a judge_n their_o law_n his_o ecclesiastical_a law_n their_o jurisdiction_n so_o dependent_a on_o he_o that_o he_o may_v exempt_v any_o man_n from_o it_o &_o grant_v the_o same_o also_o to_o who_o he_o will_n for_o the_o which_o purpose_n he_o that_o desire_v may_v find_v plentiful_a proof_n in_o a_o book_n entitle_v a_o assertion_n for_o church_n policy_n now_o whereas_o m._n r._n aledge_v that_o the_o same_o jurisdiction_n ecclesiastical_a which_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o popery_n &_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o popish_a hierarchy_n be_v confirm_v primo_fw-la elizabethae_fw-la he_o have_v put_v another_o weapon_n in_o our_o hand_n for_o to_o wound_v his_o cause_n withal_o for_o the_o very_a title_n of_o that_o statute_n be_v a_o act_n restore_v to_o the_o crown_n the_o ancient_a jurisdiction_n over_o the_o state_n ecclesiastical_a and_o the_o whole_a house_n of_o commons_o have_v so_o interpret_v the_o meaning_n of_o that_o restauration_n which_o be_v therein_o make_v that_o by_o virtue_n thereof_o the_o king_n be_v enable_v to_o give_v power_n &_o jurisdiction_n ecclesiastical_a to_o any_o subject_n bear_v so_o if_o it_o please_v he_o all_o cause_n may_v be_v take_v from_o bishop_n &_o their_o officer_n &_o give_v unto_o other_o man_n in_o every_o parish_n of_o england_n this_o interpretation_n be_v find_v in_o the_o bill_n of_o greivance_n present_v to_o the_o king_n by_o those_o of_o the_o low_a house_n a_o 1610._o print_a in_o a_o book_n call_v a_o record_n of_o some_o worthy_a proceed_n &c._n &c._n that_o this_o or_o any_o other_o judgement_n of_o the_o law_n be_v not_o infallible_a i_o easy_o admit_v especial_o touch_v the_o quaestion_n of_o lawful_a or_o unlawful_a good_a or_o evil_n of_o which_o kind_n those_o instance_n be_v which_o mr._n r._n choose_v in_o this_o place_n to_o appose_v but_o 1._o see_v that_o when_o we_o allege_v the_o parish_n to_o be_v several_a church_n &_o to_o be_v consider_v as_o they_o subsist_v in_o their_o several_a condition_n and_o the_o call_n of_o minister_n in_o many_o assembly_n to_o be_v ground_v on_o the_o people_n choice_n etc._n etc._n we_o hear_v it_o still_o oppose_v with_o loud_a voice_n the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n allow_v no_o such_o thing_n they_o acknowledge_v no_o such_o matter_n etc._n etc._n be_v it_o not_o both_o fit_a &_o necessary_a then_o to_o declare_v the_o judgement_n of_o law_n or_o can_v he_o with_o honesty_n reject_v the_o sentence_n of_o law_n so_o ligt_o now_o who_o a_o little_a before_o build_v all_o upon_o it_o 2._o the_o quaestion_n be_v here_o of_o a_o matter_n of_o fact_n and_o the_o positive_a not_o moral_a nature_n of_o it_o whether_o this_o authority_n come_v from_o the_o king_n or_o no_o not_o whether_o it_o be_v every_o way_n good_a &_o laudable_a as_o be_v the_o controversy_n about_o cross_n syrplice_n &_o such_o like_a abuse_n which_o he_o mention_v and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n if_o the_o the_o law_n say_v yea_o and_o those_o that_o submit_v to_o they_o say_v also_o yea_o mr._n r._n must_v pardon_v we_o if_o his_o no_o be_v reject_v except_o his_o reason_n be_v pass_v strong_a his_o first_o reason_n why_o this_o power_n be_v not_o civil_a be_v because_o it_o be_v not_o coactive_a or_o bodily_a enforce_n but_o the_o bishop_n after_o excommunication_n can_v go_v no_o further_o except_o he_o procure_v a_o civil_a coactive_a process_n by_o writ_n out_o of_o another_o court_n i_o answer_v 1._o though_o it_o have_v no_o bodily_a enforce_n at_o all_o annex_v unto_o it_o yet_o it_o may_v be_v a_o civil_a power_n bodily_a enforce_v be_v but_o a_o penal_a sanction_n which_o come_v after_o the_o authority_n or_o power_n civil_a &_o may_v be_v separate_v from_o it_o 2._o it_o be_v therefore_o coactive_a or_o bodily_a enforce_n because_o it_o may_v direct_o require_v as_o due_a &_o by_o law_n belong_v unto_o it_o such_o coactive_a assistance_n by_o other_o officer_n as_o mr._n r._n himself_o speak_v of_o so_o many_o civil_a commission_n &_o letter_n patent_n be_v grant_v to_o man_n which_o have_v no_o authority_n seat_v in_o themselves_o for_o force_v of_o man_n unto_o obedience_n but_o have_v authority_n to_o charge_v the_o constable_n or_o justice_n that_o next_o be_v to_o aid_v they_o in_o their_o affair_n which_o authority_n of_o they_o notwithstanding_o be_v civil_a &_o in_o that_o respect_n coactive_a a_o second_o reason_n be_v take_v from_o the_o work_n of_o prelate_n jurisdiction_n which_o be_v for_o substance_n say_v he_o the_o make_n of_o minister_n &_o excommunicate_v of_o offender_n with_o their_o contrary_n &_o appurtenance_n which_o be_v not_o civil_a work_n neither_o can_v be_v perform_v by_o any_o civil_a magistrate_n where_o if_o by_o can_v or_o may_v he_o understand_v such_o right_a as_o man_n have_v for_o their_o deed_n by_o the_o law_n or_o word_n of_o god_n than_o i_o willing_o grant_v that_o no_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v by_o his_o civil_a office_n perform_v those_o work_n of_o ordination_n excommunication_n etc._n etc._n neither_o can_v the_o bishop_n so_o perform_v they_o herein_o consist_v that_o presumptuous_a usurpation_n whereof_o they_o be_v guilty_a before_o god_n &_o man_n but_o if_o he_o understand_v such_o right_a or_o power_n as_o man_n have_v for_o their_o deed_n by_o man_n law_n than_o i_o avouch_v out_o of_o the_o former_a ground_n &_o testimony_n of_o law_n that_o any_o other_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v receyve_v authority_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o those_o cause_n as_o well_o as_o prelate_n which_o experience_n confirm_v de_fw-fr facto_fw-la in_o the_o high_a commission_n &_o some_o other_o court_v whereby_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o though_o these_o work_n in_o their_o nature_n be_v spiritual_a yet_o through_o great_a abuse_n they_o be_v perform_v by_o civil_a authority_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o these_o work_n of_o ordination_n &_o excommunication_n with_o their_o contrary_n &_o appurtenance_n be_v not_o the_o substance_n or_o in_o effect_n the_o whole_a jurisdiction_n which_o bishop_n do_v exercise_n in_o their_o province_n &_o diocese_n though_o mr._n r._n affirm_v it_o again_o &_o again_o for_o 1._o the_o principal_a jurisdiction_n which_o prelate_n have_v be_v under_o the_o king_n to_o make_v certain_a rule_n canon_n or_o law_n for_o order_v of_o certain_a cause_n commit_v unto_o they_o 2._o those_o cause_n be_v for_o a_o great_a part_n of_o they_o mere_o civil_a such_o as_o by_o god_n law_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v power_n to_o order_n of_o which_o kind_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o matrimony_n of_o will_n or_o testament_n &_o many_o circumstance_n pertain_v to_o the_o several_a church_n within_o their_o precinct_n 3._o in_o the_o very_a business_n of_o ordination_n &_o excommunication_n it_o be_v of_o substance_n to_o see_v that_o worthy_a man_n be_v admit_v &_o unworthy_a exclude_v the_o form_n of_o ordination_n &_o excommunication_n usurp_v by_o they_o be_v corrupt_a appurtenance_n to_o those_o lawful_a action_n &_o not_o the_o substance_n whereto_o all_o the_o rest_n apperteyne_a neither_o do_v mr._n r._n agree_v with_o himself_o in_o make_v all_o the_o substance_n of_o spiritual_a government_n to_o consist_v in_o call_v of_o minister_n and_o exercise_v of_o censure_n or_o ordination_n &_o excommunication_n see_v his_o opinion_n be_v that_o all_o this_o may_v be_v do_z by_o the_o people_n &_o yet_o in_o his_o former_a book_n p._n 26._o affirm_v government_n not_o to_o belong_v to_o they_o wherein_o say_v he_o do_v the_o people_n govern_v as_o many_o please_v to_o reproach_v we_o the_o three_o argument_n be_v take_v from_o the_o form_n use_v in_o consecration_n of_o bishop_n wherein_o no_o mention_n be_v make_v of_o civil_a authority_n but_o only_o of_o spiritual_a whereunto_o i_o answer_v 1._o that_o their_o episcopal_a jurisdiction_n over_o a_o special_a diocese_n or_o province_n be_v not_o express_v in_o that_o consecration_n nor_o any_o thing_n of_o substance_n which_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o a_o parochial_a minister_n ordination_n which_o be_v a_o argument_n that_o the_o bishop_n receyve_v not_o that_o jurisdiction_n from_o he_o by_o who_o hand_n he_o be_v consecrate_v but_o from_o some_o other_o power_n &_o that_o be_v from_o the_o king_n 2._o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a that_o word_n &_o form_n of_o consecration_n shall_v agree_v in_o all_o point_n with_o the_o state_n of_o a_o bishop_n for_o a_o bishop_n in_o that_o state_n &_o proceed_v which_o now_o be_v in_o use_n be_v partly_o fish_n &_o partly_o flesh_n or_o such_o a_o compound_n as_o be_v the_o foot_n of_o nebuchadnetsars_n image_n 2._o that_o be_v part_n of_o iron_n &_o part_n of_o clay_n which_o do_v not_o cleave_v one_o to_o the_o other_o for_o so_o be_v he_o part_n of_o civil_a power_n which_o be_v of_o sound_a mettle_n or_o iron_n &_o part_n of_o
spiritual_a usurpation_n like_o miry_a clay_n the._n 4._o argument_n be_v vayn_o build_v upon_o a_o supposition_n which_o former_o be_v prove_v false_a viz_o that_o all_o the_o civil_a jurisdiction_n which_o prelate_n have_v consist_v in_o their_o be_v privy_a councillor_n high_a commissioner_n or_o justice_n of_o the_o peace_n this_o therefore_o need_v no_o further_a answer_n only_o let_v it_o be_v observe_v that_o mr._n r._n in_o defend_v of_o the_o separation_n as_o well_o as_o i_o in_o oppose_v it_o do_v justify_v some_o part_n of_o the_o authority_n which_o bishop_n exercise_v in_o england_n 5._o profess_v communion_n with_o it_o and_o submission_n unto_o it_o the_o only_a quaestion_n be_v how_o much_o of_o their_o authority_n be_v such_o let_v prejudicial_a insinuation_n &_o groundless_a imputation_n therefore_o be_v lay_v aside_o and_o that_o quaestion_v only_o discuss_v the_o last_o argument_n be_v raise_v from_o a_o form_n of_o word_n use_v by_o the-byshops_a in_o that_o they_o proceed_v in_o the_o name_n of_o god_n &_o not_o in_o the_o king_n name_n as_o all_o civil_a proceed_n do_v whereunto_o i_o answer_v 1._o that_o a_o sound_n &_o convince_a argument_n can_v be_v bring_v from_o word_n of_o form_n &_o office_n if_o they_o shall_v change_v their_o stile_n &_o begin_v their_o action_n in_o the_o king_n name_n i_o doubt_v whether_o mr._n r._n will_v allow_v of_o that_o as_o any_o strong_a reason_n for_o their_o civil_a authority_n 2._o many_o action_n be_v perform_v with_o the_o same_o word_n of_o form_n as_o all_o will_n or_o testament_n &c_n &c_n which_o yet_o be_v no_o spiritual_a but_o civil_a deed_n so_o henry_n the_o four_o king_n of_o england_n begin_v his_o claim_n to_o the_o crown_n in_o the_o name_n of_o god_n amen_n i_o henry_n of_o lanc._n &c_n &c_n as_o it_o be_v in_o mr._n fox_n p._n 474._o yet_o be_v not_o any_o other_o than_o a_o civil_a claim_n 3_o i_o affirm_v thatit_fw-la be_v a_o abuse_n against_o law_n that_o bishop_n in_o their_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v not_o use_v the_o king_n name_n and_o therefore_o howsoever_o that_o the_o formal_a word_n be_v want_v yet_o the_o thing_n itself_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v viz_o as_o sir_n ed._n cook_n have_v write_v that_o howsoever_o the_o form_n run_v in_o the_o bishops_n name_n yet_o the_o authority_n be_v no_o other_o but_o the_o king_n this_o i_o will_v show_v by_o a_o instance_n most_o pregnant_a bishop_n farrar_n in_o king_n edward_n day_n be_v trouble_v &_o vex_v by_o evil_a willershad_n amongst_o other_o these_o 2_o article_n object_v against_o he_o as_o deserve_a deprivation_n 1._o that_o he_o appoint_v his_o chancellor_n by_o his_o letter_n of_o commission_n omit_v the_o king_n majesty_n stile_n &_o authority_n etc._n etc._n 5._o item_n he_o have_v common_o make_v his_o collation_n &_o iustitution_n as_o he_o do_v his_o first_o commission_n in_o his_o own_o name_n &_o authority_n without_o express_v the_o king_n supremacy_n to_o the_o first_o the_o bishops_z answer_n be_v that_o what_o formality_n soever_o be_v want_v in_o his_o commission_n yet_o the_o king_n majesty_n stile_n &_o authority_n be_v full_o set_v forth_o in_o the_o same_o commission_n neither_o do_v the_o say_a chancellor_n offer_v to_o visit_v but_o in_o the_o king_n name_n &_o authority_n to_o the_o say_a bishop_n commit_v to_o the_o five_o he_o say_v that_o the_o say_a defendant_n make_v his_o collation_n &_o institution_n in_o his_o own_o name_n not_o by_o his_o own_o anuthoritie_n nor_o by_o any_o other_o fave_v only_a the_o king_n authority_n according_a as_o he_o have_v declare_v in_o his_o first_o article_n express_v in_o they_o the_o king_n supremacy_n with_o the_o bishop_n own_o name_n &_o seal_v of_o office_n as_o he_o ought_v to_o do_v according_a to_o the_o provision_n of_o the_o king_n statute_n in_o such_o a_o case_n see_v mr._n fox_n p._n 1405.1406_o in_o which_o one_o plea_n we_o have_v the_o authority_n of_o statute_n the_o sentence_n of_o lawyer_n &_o judge_n with_o the_o confession_n &_o practice_n of_o prelate_n themselves_o for_o the_o king_n name_n &_o authority_n to_o give_v life_n unto_o their_o proceed_n here_o it_o must_v be_v observe_v that_o this_o accusation_n &_o answer_n of_o b._n farrar_n be_v ground_v immediate_o on_o a_o statute_n make_v the_o first_o of_o edward_n 6._o wherein_o it_o be_v enact_v that_o the_o bishop_n shall_v make_v their_o process_n &_o write_n in_o the_o king_n name_n and_o that_o their_o seal_n shall_v be_v the_o king_n arm_n which_o act_n be_v but_o a_o appendix_n declare_v &_o add_v form_n to_o that_o statute_n of_o supremacy_n make_v in_o henry_n 8_o his_o day_n whereby_o ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n be_v annex_v to_o the_o crown_n so_o as_o all_o bishop_n be_v to_o fech_v it_o from_o thence_o now_o though_o that_o act_n of_o king_n edward_n be_v repeal_v in_o queer_v mary_n time_n and_o not_o since_o revive_v yet_o that_o do_v declare_v the_o meaning_n of_o the_o former_a statute_n of_o henry_n 8._o to_o be_v such_o as_o have_v be_v say_v which_o statute_n be_v now_o in_o force_n howsoever_o the_o bishop_n have_v undoubted_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o state_n which_o they_o have_v in_o the_o day_n of_o king_n edw._n if_o therefore_o they_o be_v they_o civil_a officer_n proceed_v by_o the_o king_n authority_n they_o be_v also_o now_o such_o viz_o of_o civil_a nature_n for_o their_o state_n derive_v their_o jurisdiction_n from_o the_o king_n though_o they_o proceed_v not_o in_o his_o name_n so_o formal_o as_o in_o king_n edward_n day_n they_o do_v &_o now_o in_o reason_n they_o shall_v thus_o much_o for_o that_o objection_n touch_v spiritual_a subjection_n 10._o concern_v which_o i_o find_v nothing_o further_o direct_o perteyn_a unto_o the_o purpose_n except_o one_o passage_n which_o i_o find_v p._n 30._o where_o these_o word_n be_v they_o who_o thus_o disclaym_v in_o word_n the_o bishops_n government_n confess_v themselves_o therein_o to_o be_v under_o no_o spiritual_a external_a government_n at_o all_o &_o so_o be_v lawless_n person_n &_o inordinate_a walker_n etc._n etc._n this_o because_o it_o sound_v as_o a_o dangerous_a &_o deep_a charge_n ensue_v upon_o that_o former_a defence_n which_o be_v make_v that_o good_a minister_n be_v no_o branch_n of_o the_o prelacy_n nor_o necessary_o dependent_a on_o they_o as_o spiritual_a officer_n i_o think_v it_o needful_a to_o give_v answer_n unto_o it_o my_o answer_n therefore_o do_v consist_v in_o these_o 3_o branch_n 1._o that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o want_n of_o spiritual_a government_n in_o the_o minister_n which_o govern_v themselves_o well_o as_o can_v be_v a_o just_a barrt_n against_o all_o communion_n with_o they_o see_v private_a man_n live_v in_o the_o same_o want_n may_v well_o be_v communicate_v with_o 2_o that_o they_o be_v subject_a unto_o some_o spiritual_a government_n and_o 3._o that_o for_o that_o want_n of_o government_n which_o they_o be_v in_o they_o be_v no_o more_o lawless_a walker_n or_o inordinate_a walker_n then_o mr._n r._n himself_o be_v who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o any_o other_o spiritual_a government_n than_o they_o be_v except_o he_o will_v say_v that_o the_o people_n govern_v he_o which_o he_o count_v to_o be_v a_o reproach_n now_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o reply_n he_o make_v 1._o he_o plead_v that_o he_o do_v not_o infer_v this_o exception_n upon_o the_o former_a ground_n but_o let_v that_o passage_n of_o his_o book_n be_v weigh_v p._n 29.30_o and_o it_o will_v be_v find_v that_o against_o his_o allegation_n of_o the_o parochial_a minister_n be_v a_o branch_n of_o the_o prelacy_n this_o be_v one_o defence_n that_o they_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o their_o government_n whereupon_o this_o inference_n follow_v that_o then_o they_o be_v inordinate_a walker_n &_o lawless_n person_n which_o be_v the_o very_a same_o order_n of_o inference_n that_o i_o observe_v 2._o he_o say_v it_o be_v not_o allege_v to_o prove_v communion_n unlawful_a with_o they_o but_o as_o a_o reproof_n etc._n etc._n but_o see_v the_o main_a reason_n be_v for_o unlawfulnesse_n of_o communion_n because_o of_o their_o branch_a out_o of_o prelacy_n and_o the_o allegation_n nothing_o but_o a_o establish_n of_o that_o reason_n by_o removal_n of_o one_o principal_a defence_n suppose_v to_o be_v bring_v for_o it_o it_o must_v of_o necessity_n tend_v unto_o the_o same_o end_n of_o bar_v from_o all_o communion_n and_o in_o deed_n if_o it_o be_v not_o a_o slander_n it_o be_v none_o of_o the_o weak_a argument_n which_o he_o have_v allege_v 3._o he_o affirm_v the_o 1._o and_o 2._o answer_v to_o be_v beside_o the_o purpose_n because_o they_o speak_v only_o of_o personal_a or_o civil_a or_o else_o a_o more_o general_a kind_n of_o government_n than_o he_o intend_v who_n speak_v only_o of_o outward_a guidance_n and_o
not_o unto_o those_o exercise_n of_o religion_n where_o none_o be_v present_v but_o of_o their_o voluntary_a mind_n he_o shall_v have_v give_v a_o mad_a answer_n that_o be_v desire_v to_o hear_v mr._n perkins_n shall_v have_v deny_v upon_o this_o ground_n because_o that_o parish_n church_n where_o he_o only_o teach_v for_o a_o member_n of_o it_o a_o long_a time_n he_o be_v not_o be_v gather_v by_o constreynt_a when_o none_o come_v to_o hear_v he_o by_o any_o constreynt_a &_o of_o that_o parish_n few_o or_o none_o to_o speak_v of_o be_v present_a by_o all_o which_o we_o see_v that_o this_o argument_n though_o frame_v thus_o as_o mr._n r._n will_v have_v it_o conclude_v nothing_o against_o all_o public_a communion_n in_o england_n 3._o for_o that_o which_o i_o by_o the_o way_n only_o remember_v that_o he_o himself_o be_v once_o at_o a_o sermon_n in_o that_o assembly_n since_o he_o profess_a separation_n as_o he_o have_v be_v at_o many_o of_o mr._n perkinses_n before_o he_o answer_v it_o be_v neither_o pertinent_o nor_o true_o object_v because_o at_o that_o time_n he_o dispute_v only_o for_o separation_n but_o have_v not_o profess_v it_o practise_a it_o in_o deed_n he_o have_v not_o in_o that_o settle_a manner_n which_o since_o he_o have_v but_o by_o report_n of_o some_o that_o have_v speech_n with_o he_o he_o declare_v then_o to_o one_o of_o his_o acquaintance_n that_o he_o have_v be_v amongst_o some_o company_n of_o the_o separation_n before_o his_o come_n to_o camb_n &_o exercise_v amongst_o they_o have_v renounce_v his_o former_a ministry_n that_o be_v enough_o for_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o be_v affirm_v the_o pertinencie_n of_o it_o consist_v in_o this_o that_o he_o have_v so_o often_o &_o so_o late_o be_v at_o that_o exercise_n of_o mr._n perkins_n &_o his_o successor_n can_v but_o know_v that_o there_o be_v no_o constreynt_a nor_o service-book_n that_o have_v any_o place_n or_o part_n in_o it_o it_o be_v pertinent_a also_o by_o the_o way_n to_o know_v whether_o mr._n r._n do_v repent_v he_o for_o hear_v mr._n perkins_n or_o whether_o he_o do_v reckon_v it_o among_o his_o offence_n against_o god_n the_o historical_a narration_n which_o upon_o this_o occasion_n he_o interpose_v i_o pass_v over_o as_o remote_a from_o the_o argument_n in_o hand_n 4._o he_o acknowledge_v that_o for_o the_o very_a use_n of_o a_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n he_o will_v not_o separate_v from_o a_o true_a church_n in_o thing_n lawful_a but_o many_o difference_n he_o find_v betwixt_o the_o set_a form_n of_o other_o church_n &_o that_o which_o be_v use_v in_o england_n even_o so_o many_o as_o make_v the_o service-book_n a_o hateful_a idol_n advance_v above_o all_o that_o be_v call_v god_n the_o temper_n of_o which_o speech_n i_o leave_v to_o be_v consider_v of_o himself_o &_o other_o my_o argument_n be_v grant_v viz_o that_o a_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n in_o itself_o be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a cause_n of_o denijng_v all_o public_a communion_n let_v the_o manner_n of_o impose_v be_v as_o hateful_a as_o mr._n r._n will_v make_v it_o yet_o in_o those_o action_n where_o it_o be_v not_o use_v nor_o yet_o impose_v as_o in_o that_o exercise_n of_o mr._n perkins_n with_o other_o like_a that_o infection_n be_v convey_v by_o it_o i_o can_v possible_o conceyve_v i_o desire_v a_o friend_n to_o hear_v with_o i_o a_o sermon_n preach_v by_o a_o godly_a man_n where_o he_o shall_v neither_o see_v nor_o hear_v any_o thing_n else_o beside_o the_o sermon_n &_o such_o prayer_n as_o belong_v unto_o it_o will_v any_o sense_n allow_v he_o to_o answer_v no_o i_o dare_v not_o there_o be_v a_o idol_n impose_v under_o the_o name_n of_o service_n sure_o i_o shall_v think_v he_o want_v sleep_v that_o will_v speak_v so_o idle_o 5._o for_o the_o state_n of_o geneva_n who_o law_n do_v require_v church_n communion_n of_o all_o the_o inhabitant_n of_o that_o city_n he_o seek_v as_o before_o to_o find_v some_o difference_n betwixt_o that_o &_o england_n but_o grant_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n that_o if_o a_o state_n for_o politic_a respect_n expel_v out_o of_o their_o territory_n such_o as_o will_v not_o ioign_v in_o church_n communion_n that_o kind_n of_o compulsion_n do_v not_o make_v their_o communion_n unlawful_a mere_a injunction_n of_o law_n therefore_o though_o it_o be_v general_a for_o all_o do_v not_o make_v all_o public_a communion_n unlawful_a especial_o in_o such_o action_n where_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o none_o do_v communicate_v but_o voluntary_o this_o be_v all_o that_o i_o maintain_v which_o be_v grant_v by_o mr._n r._n with_o some_o other_o of_o my_o demand_n and_o the_o rest_n oppose_v with_o so_o slender_a defence_n as_o we_o have_v now_o show_v i_o do_v not_o find_v fault_n with_o the_o title_n of_o his_o writing_n as_o he_o do_v with_o i_o but_o acknowledge_v it_o to_o be_v a_o true_a manumission_n that_o be_v a_o set_v free_a or_o a_o free_a grant_n of_o what_o be_v by_o i_o propound_v for_o other_o usual_a meaning_n of_o that_o title_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v now_o though_o i_o have_v not_o undertake_v to_o give_v answer_n unto_o every_o thing_n that_o mr._n r._n may_v object_v against_o the_o state_n of_o our_o assembly_n 12._o and_o therefore_o may_v without_o prejudice_n neglect_v that_o addition_n which_o he_o have_v annex_v unto_o his_o answer_n yet_o lest_o any_o shall_v think_v some_o unanswerable_a reason_n to_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o same_o maintenance_n of_o his_o separation_n i_o will_v brief_o &_o plain_o declare_v what_o i_o think_v in_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o it_o he_o undertake_v to_o set_v down_o what_o thing_n be_v of_o absolute_a necessity_n for_o a_o true_a ordinary_a church-officer_n &_o minister_n of_o christ_n reduce_v the_o same_o unto_o 4_o head_n a_o true_a visible_a church_n a_o fit_a person_n a_o lawful_a office_n and_o a_o right_a call_n about_o the_o foremost_a of_o these_o he_o move_v 4_o quaestion_n 1._o how_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n can_v be_v true_a minister_n not_o be_v make_v &_o ordain_v such_o in_o &_o to_o any_o particular_a church_n i_o ans_fw-fr make_v &_o ordain_v be_v two_o thing_n he_o may_v be_v a_o minister_n that_o be_v not_o formal_o ordain_v in_o the_o church_n there_o be_v a_o make_n of_o minister_n in_o &_o to_o particular_a church_n in_o england_n when_o they_o be_v call_v in_o &_o to_o such_o church_n 2._o how_o many_o &_o which_o of_o the_o parish_n church_n consist_v of_o a_o people_n separate_v out_o from_o the_o world_n how_o many_o such_o there_o be_v in_o england_n i_o can_v tell_v because_o i_o have_v no_o sufficient_a intelligence_n whereby_o to_o inform_v myself_o therein_o but_o divers_a assembly_n there_o be_v well_o know_v to_o such_o as_o be_v not_o wilful_o ignorant_a which_o be_v so_o far_o at_o the_o least_o separate_v from_o the_o world_n as_o be_v of_o absolute_a necessity_n to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o true_a church_n perfect_a separation_n be_v not_o of_o that_o nature_n as_o for_o the_o mixture_n in_o diocese_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v as_o former_o have_v be_v show_v a_o civil_a combination_n 3._o how_o the_o true_a form_n of_o a_o church_n can_v be_v find_v in_o any_o parish_n church_n of_o the_o land_n which_o be_v not_o any_o particular_a act_n disposition_n or_o relation_n but_o as_o he_o conceave_v a_o public_a orderly_a covenant_n &_o union_n of_o a_o particular_a assembly_n by_o which_o it_o have_v in_o itself_o entire_a right_n to_o christ_n &_o to_o all_o the_o mean_n of_o enjoy_v he_o wherein_o 1._o it_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o very_a easy_a thing_n to_o discern_v of_o this_o form_n of_o a_o church_n for_o this_o man_n that_o have_v labour_v so_o long_o about_o the_o search_n of_o it_o &_o that_o with_o more_o ability_n &_o help_n then_o ordinary_a christian_n can_v atteyne_v unto_o yet_o speak_v something_o doubtful_o or_o fearful_o concern_v the_o matter_n as_o i_o conceive_v it_o can_v be_v no_o other_o than_o this_o i_o think_v then_o that_o charity_n shall_v teach_v he_o &_o other_o more_o spare_o to_o censure_n &_o condemn_v those_o assembly_n which_o do_v not_o practice_v this_o form_n so_o orderly_o as_o they_o shall_v see_v difficulty_n of_o discern_v a_o duty_n do_v always_o lessen_v the_o fault_n of_o he_o that_o omit_v it_o 2._o that_o which_o now_o he_o give_v for_o his_o opinion_n concern_v this_o form_n have_v a_o manifest_a contradiction_n in_o it_o &_o therefore_o can_v be_v right_o he_o say_v that_o this_o form_n be_v no_o particular_a act_n disposition_n or_o relation_n &_o yet_o it_o be_v a_o public_a orderly_a covenant_n &_o union_n a_o covenant_n &_o union_n must_v be_v take_v either_o for_o the_o act_n of_o covenant_v &_o unite_n &_o then_o