scornefully and boldly call pretâ—nded shall be really accounted Generall by the best and noblest part of the world the Catholique Church when all other pretended Churches Councells and their Canons their Bishops Deanes and Chapters shall haue no being nor memory but of dishonour You further say according to your manner without proofe that this Councell vas not Generall for want of the personall presence of two of the Patriarchs wherein you are much mistaken for otherwise the first fower commonly stiled Generall and for such acknowledged by very many Protestants cannot be truly such because the Chiefe Patriarch the Bishop of Rome was not present in any of them but by his Legats Vnlesse you will say that though two may not be absent yet one may especially when that one is the Pope a man whoÌ„ you I know can very well spare not only out of the Councell but out of the world And yet I wonder that you that haue had the fortune to be the pretended Deane of S. Peters Borough and the pretended Master of S. Peters house should yet be such an enemy to S. Peters chayre But if you desire to know what makes a Councell generall and what are the insufficiencies thereof which you ought to haue expressed and proued before you had shot your hasty bolt of condemnation against this Councell reade Turrecremata and Canus vpon this subiect You at last conclude thus Howsoeuer nihil ibi actum quod quidem constet and so was it neither any generall Councell nor so much as any Councell at all Wherein first your proposition is false and hath no authority that I know of but the worst in the world your owne Yet you set it downe in Latin as if they were the words of some author but neither expresse the place nor so much as his name and therfore I take it for yours and reiect it Secondly if it were true that nothing as done there yet your inference from thence is incoÌ„sequent to wit that therfore it was neither any generall Councell nor so much as any Councell at all concerning the nullities of a Councell or of the generality therof I need say no more than I haue done seeing it rests on you to proue that doing nothing is one And for your affirmation that nothing was done I haue fully disproued it through this whole discourse I will therfore only adde the testimony of Matth. Paris who though he were no friend to this Pope as I haue shewed before yet speaking of this Councell in the place aboue cited saith thus His omnibus congregatis in suo loco praefato iuxta morem Conciliorum Generalium in suis ordinibus singulis collocatis facto prius ab ipso Papa exhortationis sermone recitata sunt in pleno Concilio capitula 60. Wherein is a mistake in the figure it should be 70. quae aliis placabilia aliis videbantur onerosa Tandem de negotio Crucifixi subiectione terrae sanctae verbum praedicationis exorsus subiunxit dicens Ad haec ne quid in negotio Iesu Christi de contingentibus omittatatur volumus mandamus c. And so repeats at large the substance of the Decree of the Expedition for the recouery of the Holy land So that it is manifest by this and that which hath beene sayd before that there were many things done in this Councell yea all that are affirmed to bee And it is called a Councell and a generall Councell by Vrspergensis Paris Platina Grantzius Nauclerus BeluaceÌ„sis and all that I can finde that haue any way written therof except your vncontrowlable selfe Besides it hath the allowance of the Holy Catholique Church the awfull spouse of Christ more true more wise more vigilant and infinitly more reuerend then all the sects Synagogues of Schismatiques Heretiques therfore their obiectioÌ„s against her whom they ought to belieue and reuerence aboue all things on the earth especially when they are propounded peremptorily as these are are fitter to be reiected than to be answered I conclude with the words of Surius a Nemo sanae mentis ambigere potest hanc quae sequitur Synodum Lateranensem cum primis insignem vere oecumenicam fuisse quippe in qua de negotiis religionis summa Latinae Graecae Ecclesiae concordiâ tractatum est cuique interfuere Patriarcha Constantinopolitanus Hierosolymitanus Archiepiscopi tum Lani tum Graeci 70. Episcopi 412. Abbates Priores plus 800. simul omnes Praelati 1215. aut eo plures Nec defuere Legati Graeci Romani Imperatoris Regum Hierusalem Galliae Hispaniae Angliae aliorum Quodsi verò ea cuiquam propterea minus ponderis habere videatur quod recentior sit ille certè Christum mendacem facere velle videtur qui perennem praesentiam suam promisit Ecclesiae suae Spiritum sanctum suum Spiritum veritatis qui cum illa maneat in aeternum Manet sua semper Catholicae Ecclesiae authoritas quam quisquis contemnere ausus est non ille efficit vt ea minor sit sed se dignum reddit qui eius pondere penitus opprimatur No man well in his wits can doubt that this Councell of Lateran was very famous and truly generall because therein were handled the matters of ReligioÌ„ with very great agreement of the Greeke and Latine Churches wherin were present the Patriarch of Constantinople and Ierusalem and 70. Archbishops Greeke and Latin Bishops 412. Abbots and Priors aboue 800. all the Prelats together were one thousand two hundred and fifteene or more Neither were there absent the Ambassadours of the Greeke and Roman Emperours of the kings of Ierusalem France Spayne England and others But if this Councell seeme to any to haue lesse weight because it is later hee truly seemes to be willing to make Christ a lyar who hath promised his perpetuall presence to his Church and his Holy Spirit the Spirit of truth which remayneth with her for euer The authority of the Catholique Church doth alwayes abide here which who soeuer presumes to despise he doth not lessen her but renders himselfe worthy to be crusshed to pieces with her weight And now insteed of your prouing the Catholique writers lyars and forgers and the Catholique Church credulous negligent and ignorant which you endeauoured you haue proued your selfe vnwise vnlearned and audacious and I belieue will loose all credit and reputation of integrity or capacity in the iudgement of all prudent men of what religion soeuer they be that shall reade these your vnworthy workes But suppose the thing it selfe were true that you haue laboured for abstracting the authority to the contrary to wit that there had beene no Canons made in this Councell yea suppose there had neuer beene any such thing as this Councell what is it to your purpose What article of our Catholique Faith is therby cancelled how is your inuisible Church of England or your Chappell in France where God hath his Church defended
pardonable in other questions which are not yet maturely digested De verbis Apost Serm. 14. nor confirmed by the full authoritie of the Church their errour is to be borne with but it must not aduance so farre as to endeauour to shake the verie foundation of the Church Of the Popes supremacie Against the Popes supremacie Mr Cosen 's vsed 4. or fiue arguments which I will put downe as they past The first Cos S. Gregorie being demanded certaine questiōs of Augustine Achb. of Canterburie answered him that he was to learne of neighbour Churches how he was to behaue himselfe seeming thereby to say in effect why doest thou aske me who haue noe such authoritie learne of the neerest Churches c. Carre To this it was answered that this obiection was nothing to the purpose because S. Augustins demaund was in matter of ceremonie not of Faith of particular obseruance of a small part of the Church not of the generall gouernment of the whole wherein the Popes supreme power is especially and properly exercised and knowne For these are the words of his third demaund Why there being but one faith are the customes of Churches so diuers And there is one custome of Masses in the Romane Church and another is obserued in the Churches of France So that it appeares euidently that saint Augustins demand to saint Gregorie was onely about the diuers customes of saying Masse the verie word will hardly now be welcome and was indeed like to that of Ianuarius to the great saint Augustine Doctor of the Church Epist 209. and saint Gregories answer againe entirely consonant to the great S. Augustines speaking of an indifferent no necessarie obseruation Le ts heare them both Saint Gregory Your brotherhood is acquainted with the custome of the Church wherein you will remember you were bred But it pleaseth me that if you haue found any thing either in the holy Romane Church that of France or in what other soeuer which may be more agreeable to Almightie God you carefully make choyce of it and powre out by speciall institution in the English Church which is as yet young in faith the choycest things which you can cull out of diuers Churches for the things ought not to be loued in respect of the places but the places by reason of good things Cull therfore what is religious pious and right out of what Church soeuer and hauing gathered them as it were into a bundle settle them as a custome in the heart of the English Saint Augustine vpon the like occasion But other things which are diuersified in diuers places and regions as is that that some fast saturday some not some dayly communicate the body and bloud of our Lord others receiue certaine dayes onely in some place no day is omitted wherein it is not offered in others on saturday and sunday onely in others againe on sunday alone or what euer may be obserued of this nature the whole kind of them haue free obseruances nor can a graue and prudent Christian obserue any better rule or discipline herein then to behaue himselfe according to the Church where he chanceth for the time to light for what is neither enioyned against faith nor good manners may be indifferently obserued and may be kept for their societie amongst whom we liue Now how out of these premises of Saint Gregorie this conclusion which was in question Ergo saint Gregorie did not acknowledge himselfe the Head of the Church can be inferred I confesse I am not able to diuine It will belong to him who made vse of it to make it appeare or els to cease with his to bragge of a victorie when the weakest may discouer he falls so farre short of all shew of a proofe and consequenly as was replyed in his presence that passage alleadged made nothing at all to the purpose pretended which was to conclude against the Popes supremacie For the rest how truly saint Gregorie did acknowledge vindicate and exercise the supreme authoritie of the Church of Rome shall be made manifestly and plentifully appeare vpon occasions of answer to Mr Doctors other obiections as they occurre Though the same might be partly obserued too euen out of his said replyes to saint Augustins questions as when he saith to the 9th quest We giue thee no authoritie ouer the Bishops of France because the Bishop of Arles receiued the Pall from ancient tymes of my predecessours whom we ought not to depriue of the authoritie receiued Againe in the same place But we committ the care of all the Brittain Bishops to thy brotherhood that the vnlearned may be taught the infirme strengthened by persuasion the peruerse corrected by authoritie Againe in the answer to the 8. quest We will haue thy Brotherhood so to order Bishops in England c. OBSERVATION Marke how he giues him authoritie ouer the Bishops of Britanie denyes him authoritie ouer the Bishops of France as hauing formerly receiued authoritie from the same sea by the gift of a pall which is practised by the Romane Church till this day finally how he expresses himselfe by Volumus we will c. all which are the words of a master and speake his power to the life at least if we make him the iudge of the Controuersie as Mr Cosens his argument will haue it Cos Againe the same saint Gregorie cryed out against Iohn Patriar of Constantinople for proudly assuming to himselfe the pompous name of vniuersall Bishop c. ergo he did not allow the supremacie of Rome Carre This was his seconde medium and I confesse it were specious enough had it neuer before bene heard of but being too obuious and euen worne thread-bare with euery ones frequent handling it is transparent to vulgar eyes and he walkes but in a nett who makes vse of it for a cloke To this my answer was that therfore saint Gregorie exclaimed against the proud and pompous title of VNIVERSALL BISHOP vhich Iohn Patriarke of Constantinople assumed to himselfe because he apprchended that thereby all the office or dignitie of Bishop was absorpt or exhausted so as none should be Bishop but himselfe Now whether this apprehension was true we labour not it is sufficiēt to shew that saint Gregorie at least made such a conceipt or feared so much Which is euident by these passages drawen out of his owne Epistles 1. l. 4. Epist 32. If therfore saith he that name of vniuersall Bishop be assumed by any to himselfe in that Church c. the vniuersall Church therfore which God forbid doth fall from its state when he falls which is called vniuersall But may that name of blasphemy be farre from the hearts of Christians wherein the honour of all priests is taken away while one doth madly arrogate it wholly to himselfe 2. And it is very hard to be patiently endured in so much as despising all Epist 34. l. 4. Indict 13. my said Brother fellow Bishop should only endeauour to be called The Bishop
obserued where he exclaimes against that pompous title of vniuersall saying It is euident to all who know the Gospell that the care of the whole Church is committed by our Lords voyce to S. Peter the Apostle the Prince of all the Apostles for to him it was said Peter doest thou loue me feede my sheepe c. beholde he receiues the keyes of the kingdome of heauen the power of binding ad loosing is giuen to him the care and principalitie principatus soueraigntie or dominion of the whole Church is committed to him and yet he is not called vniuersall Apostle OBSERVATION Receiue from saint Gregories owne mouth then that the Sea Apostolique is the head of all the Churches That all Bishops found in fault are subiect to it That Peter was placed ouer all the Churches That the Roman Church is the head of all the Churches That it is knowne to all that know the Gospell that the Care of the whole Church is committed by our Lord himselfe to Peter the Prince of all the Apostles and that yet he is not called vniuersall Apostle What other thing is this I pray then to crye out with a lowde voyce and to make open demonstration to all the world that while he exclaymes against the title of vniuersall Bishop he refuses not the headship of all the Churches but professeth to haue iurisdiction and superintendencie ouer all the other Bishops Archbishops and Patriarkes as doth partly appeare by what I haue alreadie cited out of him and more fully shall yet appeare in my ensuing discourse THE II. TITLE WHEREBY saint Gregorie makes good the supremacie is The exercice of such power all ouer the Christian world FIRST ouer the Bishops of Europe l. 12. Ep. 15. to s. Aug. in particular ouer the Bishops of England Let the Bishop of Yorke order 12. Bishops and enioy the honour of a Metropolitane but let all the Bishops of England be subiect to thy brotherhood Secondly l. 7. Ep. 112. ouer the Bishops of France Granting the vse of the Pall to the Bishop of Auston he saith And withall we perceiued we were to grant that the Church of the cittie of Auston should be after the Church of Lions and to challenge to it selfe this place and rancke by the fauour indulgentia of our Authoritie Thirdly ouer the Bishops of Spayne saying Let him who presumed while the innocent Bishop was yet aliue to be ordered in his Church against the Canons being depriued of priesthood be cast out of all Church-ministerie and withall let him be kept in safe custodie or els be sent vnto vs. Let the Bishops who ordered him being depriued of the Communion of the body and bloud of our Lord for the space of six monthes be appointed to doe pennance in a Monasterie Fourthly l. 7. Ep. 32. Ouer the Bishops of Africa In particular thus to the Bishop of Carthage By louing the Sea Apostolique you baue recourse to the source of your office or dignitie knowing whence priestly ordination had its beginning in Africa Againe l. 10. Ep. 2. Writing to Columbus a Bishop of Numidie c. he saith You are diligently to examine all the contents of his Petition to witt Donadeus Deacon degraded by Victor a Bishop of Numidie and if his complaint be accompanied with truth let canonicall rigour be vsed against his Bishop Victor Fiftly l. 2. Ep. 6. Ouer the Bishops of Greece In particular ouer Iohn Bishop of Iustiniana prima in these words As for the present hauing first disannulled and made of no effect the Decrees of thy sentence we decree by the authoritie of Blessed Peter Prince of the Apostles that for thirtie dayes space thou shalt be depriued of the holy Communion that with verie great pennance and teares thou mayst preuayle with Almightie God to pardon thy so great an excesse And if we shall come to perceiue that thou doest coldly performe our sentence know that then not barely thy iniustice but the contumacie also of thy brotherhood shall be more seuerely punished Againe l. 5. Ep. 7. Writing to the Bishops of Epirus he saith Know that we haue sent a Pall to Andrew our brother and fellow-Bishop and haue graunted or confirmed him all the priuiledges which our predecessours conferred vpon his Againe Writing to Iohn Bishop of Corinth l. 4. Ep. 51. touching Secūdinus a Bishop whom he had deputed to examine and depose one Anastasius Bishop quam causam ei examinandam iniunximus he saith And because in that sentence whereby it is euident that the fore named Anastasius was iustly condemned and deposed our fore-mentioned brother and fellow Bishop so punished certaine persons that he reserued them to our arbitrimēet And a litle after speaking of another we pardō him this fault and we appoint that he should be receiued in his rancke and place Againe We will haue them to witt Euphemius and Thomas to remayne deposed as they are and we decree that they shall neuer more be receiued into holy orders vnder what pretext of excuse soeuer Sixtly l. 5. Ep. 14. Writing to Marinianus Bishop of Rauenna vpō the difference which was betweene his Church and Claudius the Abbot he saith And doe not you your selfe know that in the cause which was agitated by Iohn Priest against Iohn of Constantinople our brother and fellow Bishop recourse was made to the Sea Apostolique following the Canons and the cause was ended definita by our Sentence And thence saint Gregorie frames an argument a fortiori in these words which immediatly follow If therfore the cause be deuolued to our knowledge euen from the Cittie where the Prince to witt the Emperour resides how much more is the busines which is against you to be determined or iudged here the trueth being knowne The like speeches bearing a face of authoritie with them are all his Epistles so full of as may with ease be seene in Dr. Sander's visible Monarchie that who would take the paines could hardly light vpon an Epistle where he should not meete with thē If he should looke vpon the 11. booke and 10. Epistle he would finde him instile the kings his sonnes saying according to the writing of our sonnes the most excellent kings c. And in the end of the same Ep. And we command that all these things shall be obserued for euer which are contayned in this our Decree as well by thy selfe he speakes to a certaine Abbot as by all those who shall succeede in thy place and rancke or whom it may otherwise concerne And if any king Priest Iudge or secular person hauing knowledge of this our Constitution shall offer to oppose it let him be depriued of his honour and dignitie and acknowledge that he stands guiltie of the iniquitie committed in the sight of the diuine iudgement And vnlesse he doe either restore the things which he wickedly tooke away or expiate his iniquitie with the teares of worthy repentance let him be kept from the most sacred body
and bloud of our Lord God Iesus Christ our Redeemer and be lyable to a strict punishment at the day of Doome If vpon the 4. booke 34. Chap. there he excommunicates or suspends from Masse the Bishop of Salonitane who was made without his knowledge against custome as he complaynes The Bishop of the Cittie of Salonitane was ordered without my owne or my Nuncius his knowledge wherein a thing was done which neuer happened vnder the reigne of any the preceeding Princes And concludes with a couered reflection or reprehension against the Emperours themselues And saith he if the causes of Bishops who are committed to me are carried with my most pious Lords by syding and the supportation of others what doe I vnhappie man in this Church But I giue thankes to God and impute it to myne owne sinnes that my Bishops should contemne me and flie to secular Iudges for refuge against me In conclusion fearing to trespasse vpon the patience of my gentle Reader I omitt a number of other cleare passages and appeale to euery Christian heart whether it be not euen industriously to endeauour ones owne losse to dwell vpon the words of an Authour which manifestly contayne some doubtfull and odious sense and thence force the conclusion to what our passion aymes at without going on with the same Authour to heare him out and to take along with vs what he plainely positiuely and frequently deliuers vpon the same subiect It is true sainct Gregorie cryes out against the proud title of vniuersall Bishop yet speakes he not in a limited sense and points he not particularly at what he feares in it saying Least all priests should be thereby depriued of due honour Least he should endeauour to be called Bishop alone c. as I haue intimated from himselfe aboue pag. 123. But is it not also true that he more then any such is God's prouidence preaches proclaimes practises the power of supreme Head of the vniuersall Church Tearming the Sea of Rome THE HEAD OF ALL THE CHVRCHES NOT KNOWING WHAT BISHOP IS NOT SVBIECT TO IT WHERE PETER WAS APPOINTED BY ALMIGHTY GOD TO BE OVER ALL THE CHVRCH THAT NO COMMVNION IS LAWFVLL WHICH THAT CHVRCH ADMITTS NOT. THAT IT IS THE MOTHER CHVRCH THAT THEY ARE PERVERSE MEN WHO WILL NOT BE SVBIECT TO IT Will you heare these propositions secōded and confirmed by his publique practices which suffer no glosse Is it not he who gouernes and giues lawes to Europe Afrique and Asia Doth he not order all the Bishops of England to be vnder saint Augustine Doth he not sende the Pall to Auston in France and by the fauour of his authoritie rancke it next to Lions Doth he not in Spayne depriue a Bishop ordered against the Canons of Priesthoode and all Ecclesiasticall ministerie depriuing the Bishops too who consecrated him of the body and blood of Christ c. Doth he not in Afrique command Columbus to vse canonicall rigour against Bishop Victor if Donadeus Deacon whom he Victor had degraded had right on his side Doth he not in Greece by the authoritie of Blessed Peter prince of the Apostles disannulle what the Bishop of Iustiniana Prima had done and depriue him of the holy Communion for thirtie dayes Doth he not professe openly that the cause of the Patriarch of Constantinople though the Emperour resided there was according to the Canons deuolued to the Sea of Rome and was ended by his SENTENCE If we will then heare Gregorie le ts heare him throughly If we fly to his authoritie let vs stand to his verdict Let not his word be taken where it pleases you and reiected where it displeases you for so I shall haue cause to make vse of a passage of saint Augustine against the Manichees in in Ep. Fundam and say Doe you conceiue me a foole in such a measure that without giuing any reason at all I should beleeue what you please and what you please not I should not beleeue Noe that were not to deale fairely and ingenuously If Gregorie must be our vmpire LET ROME BE TEARMED THE HEAD OF ALL THE CHVRCHES as he stiles it and exercise iurisdiction ouer all the Churches as we haue seene him practise and let not VNIVERSALL BISHOP which we cannot or will not vnderstand aright stand betwixt vs as a wall of diuision a seed-plott of irreconcileable discorde The fortunes of Greece depend not vpon it nor Christian Beatitude If it signifie head or chiefe-bishop of the VNIVERSALL CHVRCH it is but ROMES DVE if it would entayle the whole right power and dignitie of Bishop vpon Rome alone Rome reiects it as sacrilegious and blasphemous and so doe we Mr Cosens his third Mediū or argument was that appeales to Rome were prohibited in the Mileuitane and 6th Carthaginean Councell and that vnder paine of excommunication Ergo the Africans did not acknowledge the Supremacie of Rome Carre My answer was that for minor or lesser persons or minor and lesser causes appeales were prohibited I granted it That Appeales were forbidden for Maior or greater persons at least in maior or greater Causes I denyed it And consequently I denyed the Conclusion intended to witt Ergo the Africans did not acknowledge the Supremacie of Rome And the reason is because the Supremacie of Rome is discerned and exercised in greater causes as in matter of faith or the generall gouernment of the vniuersall Church For such they precisely are which Rome did alwayes challenge as properly belonging to her owne iurisdiction Heare in confirmation of this what saint Gregorie writes to the Bishop of Iustiniana prima l. 2. ep 46. If any cause of faith or crime or Money-matter be commenced against our fellow-Bishop Adrian Bishop of Thebes if it be a thing of little importance let it be iudged by our Nuncio'es Responsales who are or shall be in the Royall Cittie Constantinople but if it be a matter of weight let it be referred hither to the Sea Apostolique And such Africa neuer denyed to Rome to witt aknowledgment of iurisdiction and subiection in GREATER CAVSES but contrarily had frequent recourse to the Popes of Rome with due submission and aknowledgment Yea the verie Fathers to the nūber of 61. of the Mileuitane Councell wrote to Pope Innocētius in these tearmes Wheras God by his speciall grace hath placed thee in the Sea Apostolique and hath giuen vs thee such an one talē one so qualified or so good in our dayes that it would rather be imputed to our negligence if we should conceale from thy veneration what we iudge ought to be represented for the Churches aduantage then that we neede to apprehend that thou wouldst esteeme it importune or otherwise slight the same we beseech thee daigne to employe thy pastorall care in the great dangers of the infirme members of Christ for a new and most pernicious heresie c. Againe in the same place while we intimate these things to thy Apostolicall heart we neede not vse many words to exaggerate so great
excommunication by the Bishops and after a yeeres contempt of making satisfaction and then there is added this reseruation also Saluo iure Domini principalis c. sauing the right of the principall Lord so that he giue no obstacle hereunto nor oppose any impâ—diment Now this power of the Pope whatsoeuer it be is farre from that which your confused words insinuate which to your weaker readers I suppose will sound as if the Pope had power to absolue the subiects of any kings from their fidelity and dispose of their kingdomes when to whom and for what cause so euer they pleas'd which is nothing so Yet if this power of the Popes were so vast as you belieue it or would haue others to belieue it why should it trouble you And why should you be more tender of the interest of Princes than they themselues and all their courts about them who either receiued this Canon immediatly from the Councell as I haue sayd and proued or else suffered it to be coseningly thrust vpon them as you haue sayd but not proued And I wonder that you a Protestant should fasten vpon this decree of deposing of Princes by the Pope to make the decrees of this Councell odious and incredible when as it is well knowne that the Popes in sixteene hundred yeeres haue not deposed so many as Protestants in one hundred for almost whersoere the gangrene of that heresy hath spread it selfe they haue either actually deposed and expelled their Princes as in Swede Denmarke Scotland Netherlands Geneua or diuers times atteÌ„pted by violence to doe it as in France often in Bohemia in Poland and now it is feared in England And if you say that though these Puritane Protestants haue both taught and done these things yet the true Protestant of the Church of England he neuer taught such doctrine he caÌ„not thinke such a thought without horror surely wee haue nothing but your bare and often broken word for our security For what experience hath the king or his few predecessors of your religion had that in case they should haue depriued you of your desires as they denyed to graunt the desires of the Puritanes if they should haue turned you out of your Bishoppricks and Deaneries taken from you the Church vsurped Liuings set vp a religion that would not haue endured wiuing preachers what experience haue they had that in these or the like cases your Protestants of the Church of England would not attempt their destruction and if they were able lay the axe on their necks as your Supreme Gouuernour of your Church of England Queene Elizabeth and her instruments did on the necke of the renowned Mary Queene of Scotland and Dowager of France Can you then thinke much that the Pope a person of an other quality and more dis-interessed than the subiects of Princes should haue some kinde of power by all conuenient wayes to reduce and correct hereticall Princes Especially seeing the Emperours Kings and Princes gaue their votes vnto this Decree and were for so much as concerned themselues the makers thereof But you will not belieue that this decree was made in the Councell but thinke that you haue proued the contrary My aduice then is that you acquaint the Kings and Princes on this side the seas with this strange cheat that is put vpon them it is like to be a matter of high acceptation to them of great reproach to their vnfaithfull seruants that would not discouer that which you haue done and of great prayse and preferment to your selfe You further obiect against the Act of the expedition for the recouery of the Holy Land which you call the 71. Canon but no body else doth so that I know because it runnes say you in a Popes stile not in the stile of à Councell By which I perceiue that though you are one of the Court yet you are none of the Councell for you are not skild in the stiles of Popes and Councells Otherwise you would haue knowne that it is the manner in those Councells where the Pope himselfe is present to decree things in his name with this addition sacro approbante Concilio as in the Councell of Florence inlueris vnionis euen as Acts of Parliament of England are made in the kings name with the aduice or consent of the two houses You say moreouer that Card. Bella mine and Eudaemon Cidonius doe confesse out of Platina that there was no such decree made Your Eudaemon Cidonius I cannot meet with heere nor is it much materiall for that answer which serues your quotation of Bell will serue him also seeing as you say it is both their confessions out of Platina For the finding of your citatioÌ„s out of Bell you vse vs very ill giuing vs no direction but a booke of perhaps twenty leaues in folio to finde out tweÌ„ty words which wheÌ„ wee haue found to recoÌ„pence our paynes we finde your mistake and falshood For Bellarm. doth not speake directly of the particular chapter of the expedition whether that were made in the Councell or no but of the buisinesse of the Holy Warre in generall de hoc articulo cuÌ„ multa disputata fuissent nihil certi definiri potuit and there is a difference sure betwixt nihil certi and nihil omnino nothing certaine and nothing at all as you would haue it And I suppose this nihil certi is meant in regard of the further and more particular managing of the warre from which they were hindred by the present warre in ChristeÌ„dome and which is no denyall of the Decree of the expedition which consists of a few generall heads concerning the raysing of contributions to this great worke from the clergy wherein the Pope himselfe gaue a great example of punishments on those that hindred it and indulgence to them that aduanced it with the like All which though they were vndoubtedly decreed yet it may be sayd with Bell out of Platina that after much disputation there was nothing certaine defined in regard of the neerer and more particular articles for the managing of the warre being put froÌ„ it by the present warre in Christendo me Yea it might be sayd nihil certi in regard of this decree it selfe not of the letter and intention of it but of the wars at home yea rather the contrary was certaine namely that it was not executed And if Platina or Bellarmine out of him had intended to exclude this Decree of the expedition which is all that wee affirme to be done in that kinde why did they expresse it with these reseruations of apertè and certi and not say directly and without limitation nihil as you doe which had beene more plaine and agreeable to the grauity of those writers Therfore by these reseruations they must needs intend some thing which as I conceiue is that which I haue expressed Howsoeuer certaine wee are that this Decree was made in the Councell by all that proofe whereby wee haue proued the whole Councell
that you may againe fall into the fault of which you falsely accuse others you are out in your computation of the yeeres of the holding of the Councell of Florence but this I doe not mention as a matter of moment it being brought in but on the by But I cannot omitt a weighty passage that you haue a little before where you say that betweene the seuenth and the eighth generall Councell you trow there cannot come another if it were so great and so generall as this is sayd to be Wherby you intimate that the greatnesse of this Councell was the hinderāce that it could not come betweene the seuenth and the eighth and by consequence that if it had beene a little one it might haue come betweene which is a very new and pretty fancy A little generall Councell it seemes might haue crowded in betweene the seuenth and the eighth as an appendix to the former or otherwise haue found place and vnion with it vnder the same name and number of the seuenth but this being so great and so generall could not possibly finde a roome betwixt them but that it must make two eights as you say rather than an eighth and a ninth which ninth if it had beene so in this case might yet haue beene called the eighth in some other respect as I haue shewed But I had thought that Councells in regard of number being of discrete quantity did not require any place by reason of their greatnesse as if they were in this regard of continued quantity also more than if they had beene little the abstract number of eight I trow can no more come in betweene seuen and eight in a small subiect thā in a great and therfore the greatnesse of this Councell was no more hinderance to its coming in betweene the seuenth and the eighth without chāging the name and order of the number than if it had beene neuer so little You tell vs also that in the last session of the Councell of Florence it is expressely set downe Finis octaui Concilij generalis c. yet the words more expressely than you haue set thē downe are Finis generalis octauae Synodi which though not different in substance yet the difference of the words Concilium and Synodus if you had vnderstood the reason thereof had beene enough to preuent your obiection For it appeares hy an epistle of Bartholomaeus Abramus to the Archbishop of Rauenna set downe by Crab at the beginning of this Councell and by Binius at the end that the Latin Originall of this Councell was lost and that this that is now extant was translated by the sayd Abramus out of the Greeke for which reason he vseth the word Synodus according to the Greeke not Concilium and it is called octaua because it was so in the greeke which hee translated and the Greekes set it downe so because as I sayd before they accounted no Councells generall but where they themselues were present and which they did receiue of which this was indeed the eighth But this account is for very good reasons reiected by a Praefat. huic Synod Surius and b Notis in Concil Florent Binius and by all Catholiques And Crab though hee haue no caueat vppon this place yet that you may see he spake according to the letter of the greeke coppy and not his owne minde he calleth all the Councells betwixt the 2. of Nice and Florence Generall Councells all that the Church accounteth so and particularly of this Councell of Lateran he sayth Instituta generalis Concilij Lateranensis tempore Innocentij Papae tertij In the end of this section you make this notable conclusion So that vnlesse they will make two eight generall Councells this of Lateran could be none which out of your discourse may as iustly be inferred thus so that vnlesse they will make two or nine eight generall Councells that of Constantinople the fourth the fower of Lateran the two of Lions that of Vienne that of Pisa that of Florence or some one of these could be none Could be none is a false consequence could not be the eighth is true nor is that of Florence or Lateran numbred for the eighth by any Catholiques at this day but this is reckoned the twelfth that most commonly the sixteenth But that the number of eight which you so hunt heere may come in because nos numeri sumus he that first made this obiection which I belieue was not you shall by my consent be reckoned Sapientum octauus the eighth wise man which he shall be without a riuall there shall not be two of them especially if he that next aspires to it be a great one for then I trow he cannot interueene in the order of number betweene the eighth and the ninth as you haue taught vs for our learning C. Besides if it were a generall Councell how came it to passe that the Canons of it were neuer generally receiued as amongst vs in the Church and kingdome of England they were not and as without doubt they would haue beene had the Councell in those dayes beene accounted generall and the Decrees of it vnder that stile and title sent abroad into the world But with vs in England euer since that time and contrary to the 46. pretended Canon of it subsidies haue beene payd to the king inconsulto Pontifice and against the 41. Canon with vs Currit praescriptio though oftentimes ex bona fide ortum non habeat and yet againe contrary to the third Canon there with vs Clericorum bona qui de haeresi conuicti sunt they goe not to the vse of the Church but are alwayes brought into the kings Exchequer ANSWER The generality of this Councell you further goe about to disproue because the Canons thereof were not as you say generally receiued and this you proue because they were not receiued in England but that they were not receiued in England you doe not proue but by three instances which you doe not proue and if you had they had proued nothing For it is not properly the generall receiuing that makes a Councell to be generall but the generall calling thereof from all parts of the Christian world and such was this Otherwise no Councell could be stiled generall in the calling of it or while it was sitting or when it was concluded vntill it did appeare that all the world had receiued it which is a condition that neuer happened to any Councell because some or other heretiques against whom all generall Councells haue beene commonly called or perhaps all did refuse to receiue it So that by this your character of a generall Councell you haue plainly casheired all the generall Councells that euer were for euen the first fower which you seeme to magnifie and grant them the title of Generall were the Canons of them generally receiued It is manifest that they were not but were reiected by all those sorts of heretiques who were the occasion of
their calling Moreouer your reason to proue that the canons of this Councell of Lateran were not generally receiued to wit because they were not receiued in England if it were true yet it is inconsequent and your deceipt or mistake lyeth in the indistinction of the word Canons whereof some be of faith some of manners and discipline Now that a Councell be accounted to be generally receiued it is not required that the Canons of discipline and practise be receiued in all kingdomes but it is sufficient that the Canons concerning matters of faith be generally receiued to stile the reception generall and the Councell generall for so much as the generality of reception can contribute to the title of its being generall As for example the kingdome of France doth not receiue the decrees of the Councell of Trent concerning gouernment but of faith it doth as doe all other Catholique Countries for which reason euen this kingdome which denies to receiue the Councell of Trent in matters of gouernment doth notwithstanding acknowledge it generall By which it appeares that you are not so well versed in Generall Councells and their reception as to know distinctly the meaning of the words according to their Catholique vse Now there is no doubt that the kingdome of England did receiue this Councell for the matters of faith otherwise it would haue beene noted hereticall as now it is and for it s not receiuing the Canons of discipline and gouernment you proue not but by your owne bare word which I may most iustly deny yet I haue other proofes against you But first I will take notice of your mistake if not vnfaithfullnesse in your description of the 46. pretended Canon as you call it contrary to which you say subsidies haue beene payd to the king inconsulto Pontifice as if that Canon had sayd that no subsidies at all should be payd to the king but by the aduice of the Pope whereas the Canon speakes only of the subsidies of the Clergy as requiring the Popes aduice As for the practise of England contrary to these three Canons you mention if it be true which I doe not belieue because I haue heard good lawyers in England say the contrary in one which concernes prescription yet it doth not proue that these Canons were not receiued for these crossings of the Canons may happen either through indulgence of the Pope granted to the kings or the kings vsurpation contrary to the Canōs receiued or in your instāce of prescription through the headstrong impiety of the people who will not obserue the good lawes they receiue being contrary to their euill customes If England had obserued all the Canōs they haue heeretofore receiued when they were as wise as learned as pious as iudicious at the least as now they are you and I I belieue should not haue beene at this bay that now we are Now contrary to your proofelesse assertion I proue that the Canons of this Councell were receiued in England as well those of manners as of faith first by the testimony of Linwood and the municipall lawes of the land as they are affirmed by Franciscus à sancta Clara in his article of transubstantiation Secōdly by the Councell of Oxford before cited held by the then Arch-Bishop of Canterbury but seuen yeeres after this of Lateran which was the very first Councell in the world that was held after this where it is sayd a Binij tom 7. part 2. pag. 233. That all things may be concluded wich a good end wee enioyne that the Lateran Councell celebrated vnder Pope Innocent of holy memory in the paying of tithes and in the other chapters be obserued By which it appeares how much you are deceiued in saying that in England the Canons of this Councell were not receiued as you also are in saying C. Lastly I belieue no good story can be shewed to confirme the pretended title of this Councell that the Patriarch of Ierusalem and Constantinople were present at it and 70. Metropolitans besides though that will not make it generall neither for want of the two other Patriarchs of Antioche and Alexandria who are not mentioned to haue beene among them Howsoeuer nihil ibi actum quod quidem constet and so was it neither any Generall Councell nor so much as any Councell at all ANSWER What you belieue imports not for I know you belieue many heresies and errors amongst which errors this is one That no good story can be shewed that the Patriarchs of Ierusalem and Constantinople were present at this Councell c. One is sayd to be present either in person or by deputy that those two Patriarchs which you first mention were there in person is affirmed by Platina Paris and Vrspergensis and that the other two were there by their deputies with aboue 70. Metropolitanes besides a very great number of Archbishops Bishops Abbots and Priors some in person and some by Proxy and with these the Legats and deputies of the two Emperours of all or almost all the Kings Princes citties and other places of the Christian world is recorded by Paris and Vrspergensis And I suppose you will not deny any of them to be good historians especially Paris and Platina whom you called in in the beginning of this your worke as witnesses as you thought against the Canons of this Councell a Matth. Paris hist mai p. 188. i.e. Paris and Vrspergēsis speake almost in the same words b Vrspergens Chronic p. 320. thus Anno ab Incarnatione Verbi 1215. celebrataest sancta vniuersalis Synodus Romae in Ecclesia Saluatoris quae Constantiniana vocatur mense Nouembri praesidente Domino Innocentio Papa tertio Pontificatus eius anno 18. in quo fuerunt Episcopi 412. inter quos extiterunt de praecipuis Patriarchis duo videlicet Constant Hierosol Antiochenus autem graui languore detentus venire non potuit sed mifit pro se Vicarium Anthedarensem Episcopum Alexandrinus vero sub Saracenorum dominio constitutus fecit quod potuit mittens prose Diaconum suum Germanum Primates autem Metropolitani 71. Caeterùm Abbates Priores vltra octingentos Archiepiscoporum vero Episcoporum Abbatum Priorum Capitulorum absentium Procuratorum non fuit certus numerus comprehensus Legatorum vero Regis Siciliae in Romanorum Imperatorem electi Imperatoris Constantinopolitani Regis Franciae Regis Angliae Regis Vngariae Regis Hierosolymitani Regis Cypri Regis Arragoniae necnon aliorum Principum Magnatum ciuitatum aliorumque locorum ingēs fuit multitudo Heere is your erroneous beliefe plainly and amply confuted I wonder what histories you haue read concerning this Councell that these should escape you especially Paris the Popes deare friend and Platina the Popes owne Secretary I haue therfore reason to belieue that you tooke vp these obiections vpon trust and of men that were not faithfull who haue greatly deceiued you And therfore the title of this Councell which you againe so