Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	bishop_n	council_n	pope_n	2,529	5	6.4206	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A44852	The Puritan convert, not to prelatick Protestantism and yet to prelatick Protestantism, nor to popery and yet to popery, but absolutely and without reserve to apostolical Christianity ..., or, A discourse by way of a letter shewing that prelatick Protestants, if they will be true to their practises and principles, have all reason to turn papists in all things as to what papists indeed hold, but in nothing as to what papists are vulgarly believed to hold ... / by W. H.	W. H.; Hubert, William.	1676 (1676)	Wing H3246A; ESTC R41017	28,965	38

peradventure there can be no Real Presence of Christs Body The same remaining the same without any change must needs be the same But if there be any change made in Accidents its evident there 's none our Senses and all Popish Doctors confessing as much If therefore there be any change it must be in the substances of Bread and Wine and if so what can such a Change be more properly called than Transubstantiation or the change of the substances of Bread and Wine into the substance of our Blessed Saviours Body and Blood the accidents of figure tast and colour remaining unaltered The Prelatick Protestant wonders that the Puritan when he is going out of this World should find difficulty to make a particular Confession of his sins if any grievous matter lye upon his Conscience and humbly desire the Prelatick Priests Absolution saying over him after his special Confession By the Authority of Jesus Christ committed to me I Absolve thee from thy sins in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost The Puritan replies if Jesus Christ has Instituted any such Ordinance he sees not why every one should not frequent it every year or as often as he finds himself conscious of any heynous crime with the Papist But Jesus Christ having Instituted no such Right or Sacrament he wonders any dare be so bold to press it upon any Christian living or dying and indeed least of all dying when sure if ever we ought to have a care not to seek to please Almighty God by unprescribed Will-worship or Inventions of our own Moreover the Prelatick Protestant wonders at the Puritans Niceness that he can by no means be perswaded to Bow at the Sacred Name of Jesus when Nature teaches us a Relative Reverence to any thing that has a Relative Respect to a Person whom we Honour Every one without scruple standing bare in the Presence-Chamber nor does any one pass the Kings Chair of State without a Reverend Bow whether His Majesty be there or no. And the simple Puritan deems it as gross Idolatry to worship Sounds as Colours Names as Pictures and stranges that any one who does so superstitiously cringe and bow at the Name of Jesus should smile at a Papist for respectfully putting off his Hat when he passes by the Picture of the same Jesus The sound of the Name of Jesus being vanish'd and gone before the superstitious Worshipper can make his Mimical Congy whereas the Picture a far more lively Representation of the same Great Lord is permanent and remains to receive its Devout Reverers Relative Respect The Conformist wonders what there is in a decent White Surplice that should boggle the skewish Puritan And the Puritan admires how any one can think a Surplice should become a publick Minister of the Divine Worship and yet throw away as Babilonish Rags the Popish Girdle Stole and Casuble which add Splendor and Decency to the same unwritten superstitious Garb unless it be because they are more chargable The Conformist wonders at the Puritans scrupulosity that he cannot say Amen to that Prayer in the Burial of the Dead That we with this our Brother and all other departed in the true Faith of thy Holy Name may have our perfect Consummation and Bliss both in Body and Soul c. We must pray for the Dead says the Rector of St. Martins in Oxford in his Sermon called the Schismatical Puritan Thy Kingdom come O Lord raise the dead Prisoners in the Grave And herein we pray for their Souls and Bodies God be with them to comfort their Souls deprived of their Bodies And to the Puritan this seems plain Popery In fine the Prelatick Protestant wonders at the Puritans pride that he will not submit his Judgment in matters of Faith to the determination of a Council of all the Reverend Bishops of the Land His Majesty as supreme Head and Governor presiding And the Puritan is amazed that if we may pin our Faith upon another mans sleeve safely believe as a particular Church in England believes how it can be unsafe to submit ones judgment to the determination of a General Council of all the Learned Bishops of the Christian world his Holiness the Pope as supreme Pastor presiding believe as the Universal Church of Christ believes 'T is fitting says the Conformist that for order sake in Christs Church there should be in every Nation some supreme Governors to whose Directions in matters of Divine Worship all should submit else we shall have as many Christian Religions and ways of Worship as there are Parishes nay as there are private Families or particular Persons The Puritan replies if we must conclude our Lord Jesus governs his Church as our reason tells us it's fitting he should for Union Decency and Order govern it and not according to the infallible written Rule of the New Testament If the Case be this It seems to him as rational that he should for the same Reasons of conserving Union Decency and Order in his Church appoint one supreme Pastor over all Christians dispersed in all the Nations of the World whom all should obey in the vacancy of General Councils for fear forsooth otherwise there should be as many ways of Christian Worship as there are several Christian Kingdoms of Common-wealths I speak not this to revile the established Religion of the Nation but to excite the Professors of it to observe devoutly what they Christianly profess as to Holy-days Lent Fridays and other Fasting-days Confession of sins to a Priest and other Holy and Profitable Rites when Piously and Reverently performed and by which they are distinguished from Non-conformists And by this time I hope My Dearest Relations you understand what I mean by a Prelatick Protestant But what do I understand by Popery and a Papist Why what should I understand by a Papist but what the generality of people understand by a Papist Those things we call Stones which every body commonly speaking calls Stones and so I understand by Popery and a Papist what every body commonly speaking calls a Papist and Popery By a Papist then I understand one that worships Stocks and Stones Medals and Pictures of Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary and other Saints as Gods and consequently prays to them and puts his whole confidence in them as the ancient Heathens did in their dumb Idols of Jupiter Mars and Venus c. I say one that worships Pictures of Jesus Christ as Gods Not barely one that has such Pictures and for pious purposes also for that Prelatick Protestants have as well as they Protestants have Pictures of Jesus Christ and his Holy Mother not only in their private Houses and publick Churches but even their very Common-Prayer Books are full of them in the last Impression to excite in the Beholders mind a lively apprehension of our Blessed Saviours life and death Nor can I think they that are so ceremonious in devoutly Bowing when they hear the Holy Name

though go into all the Christian Countries of the world and you 'l not find one before Luther but say they have immemorially from the time of the Apostles abstained from Flesh upon it in memory of our Blessed Saviours bitter Death and Passion I fear me at the day of Judgment their pleading they found no such command in all the New Scripture will be no sufficient excuse If others fast not as they should do upon that day must I therefore think I am excus'd from fasting upon it as I should No more than I am excus'd from laying aside my worldly Affairs on Sunday and spending it in Holy Exercises because others profane it by drinking and disports But this by the way only As to the satisfaction of that considerable Question above How we should know what the Papists believe and practice better than themselves at least better than they will tell us what their belief and practice is as to praying to Images buying Pardons and Licences to commit sin c. I must tell you plainly I have lived above 20 years amongst them and I could never yet meet with so much as one single person that believ'd or practic'd any one of all those stupid absurdities I mentioned in my Description of a Papist and the truth is there is not one such Papist in England nor any where else but in Protestants Brains and false Imaginations Nor do I desire any one should credit me as to this particular nor the Adversaries of the Roman Church neither but let him ask the first Papist he meets whether he pray to Images or no believe the Pope can give him leave to commit fornication for a piece of Money or no c. And if the first Papist he meets with will acknowledge no such thing let him propose the same questions to the next he meets and so to others until he find one or if he can find none let him not for Phrases in printed Books which he mis-understands slander his innocent Neighbours We easily mis-understand one anothers writings but when we discourse together we explain our selves what we mean by such and such Expressions which at the first hearing cause a wrong understanding in us And I easily perswade my self would those of several Perswasions in our sadly divided Countrey familiarly and friendly converse together and ask an account of each others belief and practice we should soon if not be of one mind at least so far be of one Heart that it would be far from us from thinking of persecuting one another to death for our differences in points of Religion We suppose the Roman-Catholicks hold such and such absurdities and then here I can have you and there I can have you against the Wind-mills of our own Brains Would Dr. Stilling fleet or others who write against the Church of Rome when in some Catholick Author they meet with some Doctrine or Practice which shocks their understanding with its as it seems to them ridiculousness and absurdity but reflect that there are great numbers of persons of sound Judgment and Vertuous Lives who believe and justifie all Doctrines and Practices truly Catholick methinks they could not but suspect surely I either mis-understand this Author or else its only his private opinion and consequently he alone and not the whole Roman Church ought to have dirt cast in her face for it or or else they have some Reasons for such a belief or practice unknown to me and therefore before I write against it I 'le consult some Romanist of judgment and understanding about it who by word of mouth can more plainly declare the said Doctrine or Practice and their Reasons for it if it be indeed owned and justified by their Church Such candid sincere dealing as this would cut short many of our disputes and strangely conduce to a happy composure of all our differences And indeed had we a deep sense of one anothers Eternal Happiness and Misery and strong hearty desires of rightly informing one another in the direct paths to Eternal Beatitude we would do some such thing rather than misconstrue one anothers innocent sayings and lye at the catch to make picquant re-parties upon each other as we do But my dear Relations to give you an account of that strange and hardly credible and yet most certain truth viz. That you living amongst Papists and conversing daily with them nay and often discoursing with them about Religion too yet do quite mistake their Religion and do not at all understand what they either believe or practice as to their way of Worship but imagine a thousand fopperies and madnesses concerning them which they no less than your selves abhor and detest with their Hearts To give an account of this strange Paradox Should an Englishman tell a Turk at Constantinople Sir I come out of a Countrey where we are not all of one Religion and for this cause the supreme Magistrates persecute those of a different perswasion from them and all this meerly through a mistake because they mis-understand one another The persecuting party fancies that those whom they persecute hold the most stupid opinions in matters of Religion that ever were held by Men worship Stocks and Stones as Gods pray to them put their confidence in them c. think they can have leave from their Chief Priest whom they call their Pope to commit any sin for money c. that is all the absurdities I mentioned above and yet notwithstanding not one Man of all the discountenanced party holds so much as one of all the Absurdities with which he is charged but is ready by all that is Sacred to abjure them all in general and every one in particular What think you would a stranger imagine to whom such a Narration should be made would he not Reply Surely you do not speak all one and the same Language or else if you do you seldom or never discouse with one another about matters of Religion or else you are are a strange blockish people who cannot understand common sense or else the discountenanced party are Men of no Conseience and therefore when you demand an account of them concerning their Religion they make no scruple to believe in their Hearts one thing and to swear to you they believe quite contrary but then one would think they might abjure their whole Religion and conform Exteriorly to the Religion established and so avoid the penalties of the Laws in force against them or else the Ruling Power gains a considerable Revenue or some other notable advantage by discountencing dissenters from them in matters of Religion No. Pecuniary Mulcts as they are through the favour of a Gracious Prince exacted add nothing at all to the publick Treasury and the whole force of the Nation is far less formidable to Externs than otherwise it would be were it not for our dis-union amongst our selves What then is the true Reason you neither can nor will understand one another No body is malicious

against his Neighbour meerly because he will be so when he is not only no gainer by his malice but also prejudiced by it which notwithstanding if I understand you aright is the state of your Countrey What must we say in this case to satisfie a stranger to our Affairs Why I would tell him the plain truth That is About a hundred and fifty years ago we were all of the present discountenanced parties Religon but the Supreme Power thinking fit in many things to change or as they phrased it to reform the way of worship taught them by their Ancestors partly aggravated real abuses which stood in need of correction and partly calumniated with a thousand lies those who would not joyn with them in their pretended Reformation and those lyes have been propagated from Fathers to Sons ever since Moreover there is a Real and very Considerable difference as to divers points betwixt the Religion established by Law and the Religion of dissenting Papists as we call them Especially about Transubstantiation Invocation of Saints and Purgatory And now you know people of different perswasions are very apt to slander and mis-understand one another hoping thereby to make their own cause more plausible Besides those of the established Religion having the free use not only of the press to write whatsoever they please concerning the discountenanced party but also having the command of all the publick Pulpits in which every week they represent their Adversaries how they please to the whole people no body being permitted to gainsay or contradict them nor even to write any thing but by stealth and after all their Apologies for themselves come into the hands but of a very few And it being very unreasonable to persecute with loss of Estate or Life good and peacable Subjects purely for their Consciences in matters of Religion and this about some nice Points only the Ruling Party or rather the first Reformers to justifie their own severe Laws against dissenters are forced to slander them with a thousand lies before the vulgar Multitude who easily believe what is told them by their Ministers especially if they be such as they Reverence for their seeming learning and good life Nor do I by what I am a saying accuse the whole present Clergy of lying against their Consciences when they tell the people that Papists pray to Stocks and Stones as Gods can have pardon of sin past or leave to commit sin to come for Money No I believe many of them do really think so in their Hearts having been often told so from their Infancy and knowing little of Papists but from printed Books and these made by their Adversaries too But the first Reformers who had been educated in Popery could not but lye against their Consciences when they told the people such lies concerning Papists as I have made mention of above In like manner new Apostate Priests must needs have very bad Consciences when they accuse as they do Papists of such things as their own Consciences tell them themselves were not guilty of when they were Papists For Example the Author of that Scurrilous Pamphlet The Rates of sins in the Custom-house of the Church of Rome What Conscience could he have when he could not but fore see that the common people would thence be confirmed in their mis-belief concerning their Catholick Neighbours that they can have pardon and leave to commit any sin for Money which in his Conscience he knew to be most false And yet after all one that had a mind to vilifie the Church of England might with the like semblace of Truth Intitle a Book The Rates of sins in the Custom house of the Church of England and make good the Title by setting down the Pecuniary Mulcts which are exacted in Bishops Spiritual Courts for Adulteries Fornications Dispensations in Marriages c. as if in the Church of England you might have leave to commit Adultery for so much and Fornication for so much c. when all this while these are only Pecuniary Punishments by which the Ecclesiastical Power discountenances and endeavours to prevent sin and wickedness And yet what hurt do such Paltry Pamphlets the simple half-witted Multitude Jesus have Mercy on the Authors of them But I am giving an account of our mis-understanding one another in matters of Religion Add moreover that Papists do practice certain things which those that are either very ignorant or very malicious may easily make a bad construction of For Example they most commonly say their Prayers kneeling before some Picture of our Blessed Saviour or his Holy Mother or some other Saint hence half-witted people that have often heard that Papists worship Images as Gods do really think they pray to the Picture they kneel to God Almighty before When if you saw their Hearts or would believe their Tongues they are as far from adoring such a Picture as God as Socrates was from worshipping the Clouds as the common people imagin'd when they saw him bow his Body to the Creator of all in the open fields And do no more pray to Pictures than you do to the bare walls or Communion-Table set Altar-wise you kneel before when you are at your Prayers What you do to your Communion-Table or to the Name of Jesus that they do to the Picture of the same Jesus and no more And would you without passion and partiality converse with them you would find what I say to be most true To illustrate what I am a saying give me leave to insert a pleasant Story told me by a Protestant Lady It seems in a Church in Town certain Gentlewomen and these oftentimes but a quarter-pac'd Conformists as the Animadverter upon Naked Truth phrases it sit very near the Communion Table or half-pac'd Popish Altar now Thorough-pac'd Conforming Ladies entring the Church show their respect towards the Holy Table by making a low Reverential Court'sy the Gentlewomen that sit near the Superstitious Altar taking all that respect as done to themselves wonder much at it and whisper to one another Madam Is that Lady of your Acquaintance No. Nor of yours Madam No. Surely she either knows or thinks she knows some of us she so civily salutes us c. Madam you mistake 'T is not to you but to the Holy Eucharist which is wont to be dispensed from the Sacred Table you sit so near the Devout Lady gives all that respect Just so fares it with the Religious Papist who passing by the Image of his Dear Crucified Lord Reverently pulls off his Hat or Respectfully Bows his Head The half-witted Protestant having been told from his Cradle that Papists worship Stocks and Stones as Gods now believes the Papists to be Idolaters not because his Minister told him so but because he has as he thinks been an Eye-witness of their Idolatry when all this while the Devout Romanist shows all this respect not to the Carved Wood or Stone or painted Cloth or Paper he bows before but to his