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england_n bishop_n church_n year_n 4,537 5 4.8354 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A14614 The copies of certaine letters vvhich haue passed betweene Spaine and England in matter of religion Concerning the generall motiues to the Romane obedience. Betweene Master Iames Wadesworth, a late pensioner of the holy Inquisition in Siuill, and W. Bedell a minister of the Gospell of Iesus Christ in Suffolke. Wadsworth, James, 1572?-1623.; Bedell, William, 1571-1642. aut; Hall, Joseph, 1574-1656. 1624 (1624) STC 24925; ESTC S119341 112,807 174

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common_a prayer_n etc._n etc._n without_o any_o particular_a mention_n of_o the_o book_n or_o form_n of_o order_v minister_n and_o bishop_n hence_o grow_v one_o doubt_n whether_o ordination_n and_o consecration_n according_a to_o that_o form_n be_v good_a in_o law_n or_o no._n another_o be_v queen_n elizabeth_n in_o her_o letter_n patent_n touch_v such_o consecration_n ordination_n have_v not_o use_v as_o may_v seem_v beside_o other_o general_a word_n import_v the_o high_a authority_n in_o cause_n ecclesiastical_a the_o title_n of_o supreme_a head_n as_o king_n henry_n and_o king_n edward_z in_o their_o like_a letter_n patent_n be_v wont_n to_o d●_n &_o that_o notwithstanding_o the_o act_n of_o 35._o hen._n 8._o after_o the_o repeal_n of_o the_o former_a repeal_n may_v seem_v though_o never_o special_o revive_v this_o as_o i_o ghosse_n be_v another_o exception_n to_o those_o t●at_n by_o virtue_n of_o those_o patent_n be_v consecrate_a whereupon_o the_o parliament_n declare_v first_o 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without_o bishop_n wherein_o our_o parliament_n man_n will_v rectify_v his_o judgement_n f._n halywood_n be_v in_o this_o report_n twice_o deceive_v or_o will_v deceive_v his_o reader_n first_o that_o he_o will_v make_v that_o exception_n which_o boner_n lay_v against_o the_o first_o parliament_n in_o queen_n elizabeth_n time_n to_o be_v true_a of_o all_o the_o rest_n then_o that_o he_o account_v b._n boner_n to_o have_v except_v against_o this_o parliament_n because_o the_o bishop_n there_o be_v no_o bishop_n as_o not_o canonical_o ordain_v where_o it_o be_v because_o there_o be_v no_o bishop_n true_a or_o false_a there_o at_o all_o his_o last_o proof_n be_v that_o d._n bancroft_n be_v demand_v of_o m._n alabaster_n whence_o their_o first_o bishop_n receive_v their_o order_n answer_v that_o he_o hope_v a_o bishop_n may_v be_v ordain_v of_o a_o presbyter_n in_o time_n of_o necessity_n silent_o grant_v that_o they_o be_v not_o ordain_v by_o any_o bishop_n and_o therefore_o say_v he_o the_o parliamentary_a bishop_n be_v without_o order_n episcopal_a &_o their_o minister_n also_o no_o priest_n for_o priest_n be_v not_o make_v but_o of_o bishop_n whence_o hierome_n qu●d_fw-la facit_fw-la etc._n etc._n what_o do_v a_o bishop_n save_v ordination_n which_o a_o presbyter_n do_v not_o i_o have_v not_o the_o mean_n to_o demand_v of_o d._n alabaster_n whether_o this_o be_v true_a or_o not_o nor_o yet_o whether_o this_o be_v all_o the_o answer_n he_o have_v of_o d._n bancroft_n that_o i_o affirm_v that_o if_o it_o be_v yet_o it_o follow_v not_o that_o d._n bancroft_n silent_o grant_v they_o have_v no_o order_n of_o bishop_n unless_o he_o that_o in_o a_o false_a discourse_n both_o where_o proposition_n be_v untrue_a deny_v the_o mayor_n do_v silent_o grant_v the_o minor_n rather_o he_o jest_v at_o the_o futilitie_n of_o this_o argument_n which_o admit_v all_o this_o lie_a legend_n of_o the_o nagshead_n and_o more_o to_o suppose_v no_o ordination_n by_o any_o bishop_n have_v be_v ever_o effect_v notwithstanding_o show_v no_o sufficient_a reason_n why_o there_o may_v not_o be_v a_o true_a consecration_n and_o true_a minister_n make_v and_o consequent_o a_o true_a church_n in_o england_n for_o indeed_o necessity_n dispense_v with_o god_n own_o positive_a law_n 〈…〉_z as_o our_o saviour_n show_v in_o the_o gospel_n much_o more_o than_o with_o man_n and_o such_o by_o hieromes_n opinion_n be_v the_o law_n of_o the_o church_n touch_v the_o difference_n of_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n and_o consequent_o touch_v their_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n only_o whereof_o i_o have_v treat_v more_o at_o large_a in_o another_o place_n for_o the_o justification_n of_o other_o reform_a church_n albeit_o the_o church_n of_o england_n need_v it_o not_o to_o confirm_v this_o argument_n it_o please_v f._n halywood_n to_o add●_n that_o king_n edward_n the_o six_o take_v away_o the_o catholic_a rite_n of_o ordain_v and_o in_o stead_n of_o it_o substitute_v a_o few_o caluinisticall_a prayer_n who_o queen_n elizabeth_n follow_v etc._n etc._n and_o this_o be_v in_o effect_n the_o same_o thing_n which_o you_o say_v when_o you_o add_v that_o coverdale_n be_v make_v bishop_n of_o exeter_n in_o king_n edward_n time_n when_o all_o counsel_n and_o church_n canon_n be_v little_o observe_v it_o be_v very_o doubtful_a he_o be_v never_o himself_o canonical_o consecrate_v and_o so_o if_o he_o be_v no_o canonical_a bishop_n he_o can_v not_o make_v another_o canonical_a to_o f._n halywood_n i_o will_v answer_v that_o king_n edward_n take_v not_o away_o the_o catholic_a rite_n of_o ordain_v but_o purge_v it_o from_o a_o number_n of_o idle_a and_o superstitious_a rite_n prescribe_v by_o the_o popish_a pontifical_a and_o the_o prayer_n which_o he_o scoff_n at_o if_o they_o be_v caluinisticall_a sure_o it_o be_v by_o prophecy_n for_o calvin_n never_o see_v them●ill_o queen_n mary_n time_n when_o by_o certain_a of_o our_o english_a exile_n the_o book_n of_o common_a prayer_n be_v translate_v and_o show_v he_o if_o he_o see_v they_o then_o some_o of_o they_o as_o the_o let_v any_o and_o the_o hymn_n veni_fw-la creator_n etc._n etc._n i_o hope_v be_v none_o of_o caluin_n devise_v to_o you_o if_o you_o name_v what_o counsel_n and_o church_n canon_n you_o mean_v and_o make_v any_o certain_a exception_n either_o against_o bishop_n coverdale_n or_o any_o of_o the_o rest_n as_o not_o canonical_a bishop_n i_o will_v endeavour_v to_o satisfy_v you_o mean_a while_n remember_v i_o beseech_v you_o that_o both_o law_n and_o reason_n and_o religion_n shall_v induce_v you_o in_o doubtful_a thing_n to_o follow_v the_o most_o favourable_a sentence_n and_o not_o rash_o out_o of_o light_a surmise_n to_o pronounce_v against_o a_o public_a and_o solemn_a ordination_n against_o the_o order_n confer_v successive_o from_o it_o against_o a_o whole_a church_n wherein_o i_o can_v but_o commend_v doctor_n carrier_n modesty_n 7._o
insist_v for_o the_o present_a but_o admit_v it_o as_o true_a that_o wickedness_n of_o man_n person_n do_v not_o impeach_v the_o holiness_n of_o their_o function_n which_o they_o have_v receive_v of_o god_n nor_o make_v god_n ordinance_n as_o his_o word_n and_o sacrament_n of_o none_o effect_n but_o tell_v i_o for_o god_n love_n master_n waddesworth_n be_v it_o likely_a that_o this_o monarchy_n thus_o seek_v thus_o get_v thus_o keep_v thus_o exercise_v be_v of_o god_n be_v these_o man_n that_o whole_o forsake_v the_o feed_n of_o the_o flock_n of_o god_n dream_n of_o nothing_o now_o but_o crown_n and_o scepter●_n serve_v to_o the_o church_n to_o no_o use_n in_o the_o world_n unless_o it_o be_v to_o break_v the_o ancient_a canon_n and_o oppress_v with_o their_o power_n all_o that_o shall_v but_o utter_v a_o free_a word_n against_o their_o ambition_n and_o tyranny_n be_v they_o i_o will_v not_o say_v with_o you_o good_a head_n of_o god_n church_n but_o member_n of_o it_o and_o not_o 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zanchius_n and_o sundry_a german_a divine_n you_o may_v perceive_v yea_o and_o where_o these_o be_v not_o as_o in_o geneva_n and_o the_o french_a church_n yet_o there_o be_v say_v zanchius_n ●sually_o certain_a chief_a man_n that_o do_v in_o a_o manner_n bear_v all_o the_o sway_n as_o if_o order_n itself_o and_o necessity_n lead_v they_o to_o this_o course_n and_o what_o be_v these_o but_o bishop_n indeed_o unless_o we_o shall_v wrangle_v about_o name_n which_o for_o reason_n of_o state_n those_o church_n be_v to_o abstain_v from_o as_o for_o that_o you_o say_v lay_v man_n intermeddle_v there_o with_o the_o make_n of_o their_o minister_n if_o you_o mean_v the_o election_n of_o they_o they_o have_v reason_n for_o ancient_o the_o people_n have_v always_o a_o right_a therein_o as_o saint_n cyprian_n write_v to_o the_o church_n of_o leon_n and_o astorga_n there_o in_o spain_n plebs_fw-la ipsa_fw-la maxim_n habet_fw-la potestatem_fw-la vel_fw-la eligendi_fw-la dignos_fw-la sacerdotes_fw-la vel_fw-la indignos_fw-la recusandi_fw-la and_o in_o sundry_a place_n of_o italy_n this_o usage_n do_v continue_v to_o this_o day_n if_o you_o mean_v it_o in_o ordination_n you_o be_v deceive_v and_o wrong_v these_o church_n as_o bellarmine_n himself_o will_v teach_v you_o lib._n de_fw-fr cl●ricis_fw-la cap._n 3._o for_o among_o the_o lutheran_n and_o caluinist_n also_o say_v he_o which_o have_v take_v away_o almost_o all_o ecclesiastical_a rite_n they_o only_o lie_v on_o hand_n and_o make_v pastor_n and_o minister_n who_o though_o they_o be_v not_o pastor_n and_o bishop_n indeed_o will_v be_v so_o account_v and_o call_v in_o england_n you_o miss_v first_o the_o lesser_a order_n and_o say_v we_o be_v make_v minister_n per_fw-la saltum_fw-la as_o if_o all_o that_o be_v make_v priest_n among_o you_o be_v psalmist_n sexten_n reader_n exorcist_n torchbearer_n subdeacons_n and_o deacon_n before_o remember_v i_o pray_v what_o the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n say_v of_o deaconship_n and_o 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his_o mercy_n evermore_o help_v we_o and_o bring_v we_o to_o his_o ever_o last_a kingdom_n amen_n horningshearth_n octo._n 22._o 1620._o your_o very_a love_a brother_n w._n bedell_n the_o copy_n of_o certain_a letter_n etc._n etc._n salutem_fw-la in_o christo_fw-la jesu._n chap._n i._n of_o the_o preamble_n the_o title_n catholic_n papist_n traitor_n idolater_n sir_n i_o do_v first_o return_v you_o hearty_a thanks_n for_o the_o truth_n and_o constancy_n of_o your_o love_n and_o those_o best_a effect_n of_o it_o your_o wish_v i_o as_o well_o as_o to_o yourself_o and_o rejoice_v in_o my_o safe_a return_n out_o of_o italy_n for_o indeed_o further_o i_o be_v not_o though_o report_v to_o have_v be_v both_o at_o constantinople_n and_o jerusalem_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o nearness_n of_o my_o name_n to_o one_o master_n william_n bidulph_n the_o minister_n of_o our_o merchant_n at_o aleppo_n who_o visit_v both_o those_o place_n i_o thank_v you_o also_o that_o your_o ancient_a love_n towards_o i_o have_v to_o use_v that_o word_n of_o the_o apostle_n now_o flourish_v again_o in_o that_o after_o so_o many_o year_n you_o have_v find_v opportunity_n to_o accomplish_v your_o promise_n of_o write_v to_o i_o though_o not_o as_o you_o undertake_v of_o the_o state_n of_o religion_n there_o yet_o which_o i_o confess_v i_o no_o less_o desire_v the_o motive_n of_o the_o forsake_v that_o you_o have_v profess_v here_o whereof_o since_o it_o have_v please_v you_o as_o you_o write_v now_o to_o give_v i_o a_o account_n and_o by_o i_o to_o master_n doctor_n hall_n with_o some_o expectation_n also_o as_o it_o appear_v of_o reply_n from_o one_o of_o we_o i_o will_v use_v the_o liberty_n which_o you_o give_v i_o and_o as_o direct_o as_o i_o can_v for_o the_o matter_n and_o in_o christian_a term_n for_o the_o manner_n show_v you_o my_o opinion_n of_o they_o wherein_o i_o shall_v endeavour_v to_o observe_v that_o precept_n of_o the_o apostle_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d whether_o it_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v love_v sincere_o or_o seek_v truth_n love_o neither_o soothe_a untruth_n for_o the_o dearness_n of_o your_o person_n nor_o break_v charity_n for_o diversity_n of_o opinion_n with_o this_o entrance_n my_o love_a friend_n and_o if_o you_o refuse_v not_o that_o old_a catholic_a name_n my_o dear_a brother_n i_o come_v to_o your_o letter_n wherein_o though_o i_o may_v well_o let_v pass_v that_o part_n which_o concern_v your_o quarrel_n with_o master_n doctor_n hall_n with_o aetatem_fw-la habet_fw-la yet_o thus_o much_o out_o of_o the_o common_a presumption_n of_o charity_n which_o think_v not_o evil_a give_v i_o leave_v to_o say_v for_o he_o i_o be_o very_o persuade_v he_o never_o mean_v to_o charge_v you_o with_o apostasy_n in_o so_o horrible_a a_o sense_n as_o