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england_n bishop_n church_n time_n 6,871 5 3.7848 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A59095 Table-talk, being discourses of John Seldon, Esq or his sense of various matters of weight and high consequence, relating especially to religion and state. Selden, John, 1584-1654. 1696 (1696) Wing S2438; ESTC R3639 74,052 204

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it_o be_v not_o the_o eat_n nor_o it_o be_v not_o the_o drink_v that_o be_v to_o be_v blame_v but_o the_o excess_n so_o in_o pride_n idolatry_n 1._o idolatry_n be_v in_o a_o man_n be_v own_o thought_n not_o in_o the_o opinion_n of_o another_o put_v case_n i_o bow_v to_o the_o altar_n why_o be_o i_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n because_o a_o slander_n by_o think_v so_o i_o be_o sure_a i_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o altar_n to_o be_v god_n and_o the_o god_n i_o worship_n may_v be_v bow_v to_o in_o all_o place_n and_o at_o all_o time_n jew_n 1._o god_n at_o the_o first_o give_v law_n to_o all_o mank_n but_o afterward_o he_o give_v peculiar_a law_n to_o the_o jew_n which_o they_o be_v only_o to_o observe_v just_o as_o we_o have_v the_o common_a law_n for_o all_o england_n and_o yet_o you_o have_v some_o corporation_n that_o beside_o that_o have_v peculiar_a law_n and_o privilege_n to_o themselves_o 2._o talk_v what_o you_o will_v of_o the_o jew_n that_o they_o be_v curse_v they_o thrive_v 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scaliger_n grotius_n salmansius_fw-la heinsius_n etc._n etc._n 7._o if_o you_o ask_v which_o of_o erasmus_n beza_n or_o grotius_n do_v best_o upon_o the_o new_a testament_n it_o be_v a_o idle_a question_n for_o they_o all_o do_v well_o in_o their_o way_n erasmus_n break_v down_o the_o first_o brick_n beza_n add_v many_o thing_n and_o grotius_n add_v much_o to_o he_o in_o who_o we_o have_v either_o something_o new_a or_o something_o heighten_v that_o be_v say_v before_o and_o so_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o have_v they_o all_o three_o 8._o the_o text_n serve_v only_o to_o guess_v by_o we_o must_v satisfy_v ourselves_o full_o out_o of_o the_o author_n that_o live_v about_o those_o time_n 9_o in_o interpret_n the_o scripture_n many_o do_v as_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v see_v one_o have_v ten_o pound_n which_o he_o reckon_v by_o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10._o meaning_n four_o be_v but_o four_o unite_v and_o five_o sive_fw-la unite_v etc._n etc._n and_o that_o he_o have_v in_o all_o 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wife_n 3._o the_o condition_n of_o the_o clergy_n towards_o their_o prince_n and_o the_o condition_n of_o the_o physician_n be_v all_o one_o the_o physician_n tell_v the_o prince_n they_o have_v agaric_a and_o rhubarb_n good_a for_o he_o and_o good_a for_o his_o subject_n body_n upon_o this_o he_o give_v they_o leave_v to_o use_v it_o but_o if_o it_o prove_v naught_o then_o away_o with_o it_o they_o shall_v use_v it_o no_o more_o so_o the_o clergy_n tell_v the_o prince_n they_o have_v physic_n good_a for_o his_o soul_n and_o good_a for_o the_o soul_n of_o his_o people_n upon_o that_o he_o admit_v they_o but_o when_o he_o find_v by_o experience_n they_o both_o trouble_v he_o and_o his_o people_n he_o will_v have_v no_o more_o to_o do_v with_o they_o what_o be_v that_o to_o they_o or_o any_o body_n else_o if_o a_o king_n will_v not_o go_v to_o heaven_n 4._o a_o clergyman_n go_v not_o a_o dram_n further_o than_o this_o you_o ought_v to_o obey_v your_o prince_n in_o general_a if_o he_o 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prin_fw-mi burton_n and_o bastwick_n when_o there_o be_v but_o two_o there_o and_o one_o speak_v not_o in_o his_o own_o cause_n house_n of_o commons_o 1._o there_o be_v but_o two_o erroneous_a opinion_n in_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o that_o the_o lord_n sit_v only_o for_o themselves_o when_o the_o truth_n be_v they_o sit_v as_o well_o for_o the_o commonwealth_n the_o knight_n and_o burgess_n sit_v for_o themselves_o and_o other_o some_o for_o more_o some_o for_o few_o and_o what_o be_v the_o reason_n because_o the_o room_n will_v not_o hold_v all_o the_o lord_n be_v few_o they_o all_o come_v and_o imagine_v the_o room_n able_a to_o hold_v all_o the_o commons_o of_o england_n than_o the_o lord_n and_o burgess_n will_v sit_v no_o otherwise_o than_o the_o lord_n do_v the_o second_o error_n be_v that_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o be_v to_o begin_v to_o give_v subsidy_n yet_o if_o the_o lord_n dissent_v they_o can_v give_v no_o money_n 2._o the_o house_n of_o commons_o be_v call_v the_o 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to_o command_v that_o be_v where_o he_o must_v be_v obey_v so_o be_v every_o supreme_a power_n and_o prince_n they_o that_o stretch_v his_o infallibility_n further_o do_v they_o know_v not_o what_o 5._o when_o a_o protestant_n and_o a_o papish_a dispute_n they_o talk_v like_o two_o madman_n because_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v upon_o their_o principle_n the_o one_o way_n be_v to_o destroy_v the_o pope_n power_n for_o if_o he_o have_v power_n to_o command_v i_o it_o be_v not_o my_o allege_v reason_n to_o the_o contrary_n can_v keep_v i_o from_o obey_v for_o example_n if_o a_o constable_n command_v i_o to_o wear_v a_o green_a suit_n to_o morrow_n and_o have_v power_n to_o make_v i_o it_o be_v not_o my_o allege_v a_o hundred_o reason_n of_o the_o folly_n of_o it_o can_v excuse_v i_o from_o do_v it_o 6._o there_o be_v a_o time_n when_o the_o pope_n have_v power_n here_o in_o england_n and_o there_o be_v excellent_a use_v make_v of_o it_o for_o it_o be_v only_a to_o serve_v turn_v as_o might_n be_v manifest_v out_o of_o the_o record_n of_o the_o kingdom_n which_o divine_n know_v little_a of_o if_o the_o king_n do_v not_o like_o what_o the_o pope_n will_v have_v he_o will_v forbid_v the_o pope_n legate_n to_o land_n upon_o his_o ground_n so_o that_o the_o power_n be_v true_o then_o in_o the_o king_n though_o suffer_v in_o the_o pope_n but_o now_o the_o temporal_a and_o the_o spiritual_a power_n spiritual_a so_o call_v because_o ordain_v to_o a_o spiritual_a end_n spring_n both_o from_o one_o fountain_n they_o be_v like_a to_o twist_v that_o 7._o the_o protestant_n in_o france_n bear_v office_n in_o the_o state_n because_o though_o their_o religion_n be_v different_a yet_o they_o acknowledge_v no_o other_o king_n but_o the_o king_n of_o france_n the_o papist_n in_o england_n they_o must_v have_v a_o king_n of_o their_o own_o a_o pope_n that_o must_v do_v something_o in_o our_o kingdom_n therefore_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n they_o shall_v enjoy_v the_o same_o 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the_o people_n have_v make_v nero_n emperor_n they_o agree_v he_o to_o command_v they_o to_o obey_v then_o god_n come_v in_o and_o cast_v a_o hook_n upon_o they_o keep_v your_o faith_n then_o come_v in_o all_o power_n be_v of_o god_n never_o king_n drop_v out_o of_o the_o cloud_n god_n do_v not_o make_v a_o new_a emperor_n as_o the_o king_n make_v a_o justice_n of_o peace_n 5._o christ_n himself_o be_v a_o great_a observer_n of_o the_o civil_a power_n and_o do_v many_o thing_n only_o justifiable_a because_o the_o state_n require_v it_o which_o be_v thing_n mere_o temporary_a for_o the_o time_n that_o state_n stand_v but_o divine_v make_v use_n of_o they_o to_o gain_v power_n to_o themselves_o as_o for_o example_n that_o of_o die_fw-fr ecclesiae_fw-la tell_v the_o church_n there_o be_v then_o a_o sanhedrim_n a_o court_n to_o tell_v it_o to_o and_o therefore_o they_o will_v have_v it_o so_o now_o 6._o divine_n ought_v to_o do_v no_o more_o than_o what_o the_o state_n permit_v before_o 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natura_fw-la of_o a_o servile_a base_a spirit_n and_o the_o subject_n liberi_fw-la free_a and_o ingenuous_a ofttimes_o they_o depose_v their_o prince_n and_o govern_v themselves_o on_o the_o contrary_a if_o the_o people_n be_v servi_n natura_n and_o some_o one_o among_o they_o of_o a_o free_a and_o ingenuous_a spirit_n he_o make_v himself_o king_n of_o the_o rest_n and_o this_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o all_o change_n in_o state_n commonwealth_n into_o monarchy_n and_o monarchy_n into_o commonwealth_n 10._o in_o a_o trouble_a state_n we_o must_v do_v as_o in_o foul_a wether_n upon_o the_o thames_n not_o think_v to_o cut_v direct_o through_o so_o the_o boat_n may_v be_v quick_o full_a of_o water_n but_o rise_v and_o fall_v as_o the_o wave_n do_v give_v as_o much_o as_o convenient_o we_o can_v
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therefore_o be_v take_v away_o if_o the_o pope_n give_v i_o a_o jewel_n will_v you_o therefore_o take_v it_o away_o from_o i_o 4._o abraham_n pay_v tithe_n to_o melchizedeck_v what_o then_o it_o be_v very_o well_o do_v of_o he_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v therefore_o that_o i_o must_v pay_v tithe_n no_o more_o than_o i_o be_o bind_v to_o imitate_v any_o other_o action_n of_o abraham_n 5._o it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o say_v the_o tithe_n be_v god_n part_n and_o therefore_o the_o clergy_n must_v have_v they_o why_o so_o they_o be_v if_o the_o layman_n have_v they_o it_o be_v as_o if_o one_o of_o my_o lady_n kent_n maid_n shall_v be_v sweep_v this_o room_n and_o another_o of_o they_o shall_v come_v and_o take_v away_o the_o broom_n and_o tell_v for_o a_o reason_n why_o she_o shall_v part_v with_o it_o it_o be_v my_o lady_n broom_n as_o if_o it_o be_v not_o my_o lady_n broom_n which_o of_o they_o soever_o have_v it_o 6._o they_o consult_v in_o oxford_n where_o they_o may_v find_v the_o 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some_o five_o hundred_o year_n ago_o which_o be_v excommunicate_v by_o stephen_n bishop_n of_o paris_n by_o that_o very_a name_n excommunicate_v because_o that_o kind_n of_o learn_v puzzle_v and_o trouble_v their_o divinity_n but_o find_v themselves_o at_o a_o loss_n some_o forty_o year_n after_o which_o be_v much_o about_o the_o time_n since_o i_o write_v my_o history_n they_o be_v call_v in_o again_o and_o so_o have_v continue_v ever_o since_o trade_n 1._o there_o be_v no_o prince_n in_o christendom_n but_o be_v direct_o a_o tradesman_n though_o in_o another_o way_n than_o a_o ordinary_a tradesman_n for_o the_o purpose_n i_o have_v a_o man_n i_o bid_v he_o lay_v out_o twenty_o shilling_n in_o such_o commodity_n but_o i_o tell_v he_o for_o every_o shilling_n he_o lay_v out_o i_o will_v have_v a_o penny_n i_o trade_n as_o well_o as_o he_o this_o every_o prince_n do_v in_o his_o custom_n 2._o that_o which_o a_o man_n be_v breed_v up_o in_o he_o think_v no_o cheat_v as_o your_o 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to_o speak_v rhetorical_o bring_v up_o transubstantiation_n as_o if_o because_o it_o be_v common_o say_v amicus_fw-la est_fw-la alter_fw-la idem_fw-la one_o shall_v go_v about_o to_o prove_v a_o man_n and_o his_o friend_n be_v all_o one_o that_o opinion_n be_v only_a rhetoric_n turn_v into_o logic_n 2._o there_o be_v no_o great_a argument_n though_o not_o use_v against_o transubstantiation_n than_o the_o apostle_n at_o their_o first_o council_n forbid_v blood_n and_o suffocation_n will_v they_o forbid_v blood_n and_o yet_o enjoin_v the_o eat_n of_o blood_n too_o 3._o the_o best_a way_n for_o a_o pious_a man_n be_v to_o address_v himself_o to_o the_o sacrament_n with_o that_o reverence_n and_o devotion_n as_o if_o christ_n be_v real_o there_o present_a traitor_n 1._o it_o be_v not_o seasonable_a to_o call_v a_o man_n traitor_n that_o have_v a_o army_n at_o his_o heel_n one_o with_o a_o army_n be_v a_o gallant_a man_n my_o lady_n cotten_n be_v in_o the_o right_n when_o she_o laugh_v at_o 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court_n he_o must_v conform_v to_o the_o place_n uow_n 1._o suppose_v a_o man_n find_v by_o his_o own_o inclination_n he_o have_v no_o mind_n to_o marry_v may_v he_o not_o then_o vow_v chastity_n answ._n if_o he_o do_v what_o a_o fine_a thing_n have_v he_o do_v it_o be_v as_o if_o a_o man_n do_v not_o love_v chief_a and_o then_o he_o will_v vow_v to_o god_n almighty_n never_o to_o eat_v cheese_n he_o that_o vow_n can_v mean_v no_o more_o in_o sense_n than_o this_o to_o do_v his_o utmost_a endeavour_n to_o keep_v his_o vow_n usury_n 1._o the_o jew_n be_v forbid_v to_o take_v use_v one_o of_o another_o but_o they_o be_v not_o forbid_v to_o take_v it_o of_o other_o nation_n that_o be_v so_o i_o