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A62456 Just weights and measures that is, the present state of religion weighed in the balance, and measured by the standard of the sanctuary / according to the opinion of Herbert Thorndike. Thorndike, Herbert, 1598-1672. 1662 (1662) Wing T1051; ESTC R19715 213,517 274

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is to bee understood Not because it can bee within the compass of common reason to imagine that the same Ceremonies have continued from the time that the Church was persecuted into holes and caves of the Earth to this time in which the question is of setling Christianity by the Law of this Kingdom It were want of common understanding to think that the same could serve But because so few and so innocent as wee use cannot bee condemned without condemning not only Gods whole Church but also Gods antient people who will evidently bee found in the same cause One thing hath been cast forth in barre to all this which wee must not swallow whole unless wee mean to impose upon our selves It is the pretense of complying with the Reformed Churches For it is evident that there are four forms of Reformation extant One according to Luther another according to Calvine the third is that of the Church of England and in the last place though first for time because least known and protected by no Sovereign I name that the Union in Bohemia For wee are to know that the followers of John Husse having sent Deputies to the Council of Basil they accorded to reunite the Nation upon four Articles The chief whereof was the Communion in both kinds They that stood to the accord are to this day called thereupon Calixtini or sub utraque in Latine But another part of those that were at distance thinking themselves betrayed by their Deputies in that accord proceeded to settle themselves in a form of Religion and the service of God by that which they held the pure truth of God in all points that had been disputed The Emperour Ferdinand 1. King of Bohemia having subdued his subjects there that rose with the Protestants in Germany cast a good part of these out of the Country who finding shelter in Polonia and Prussia there planted and propagated their form till the troubles of our time when by the Emperours victory in Bohemia and the late troubles in Poland they seem to bee at a low ebbe though they impute it to the decay of their first discipline They that would reform the Church of England professing already that Reformation which it found best will they not first show us reason why wee are to leave Luther for Calvine For if they mean his form when they talk of conforming us to the reformed Churches because of the Scots Presbyteries they must have better arguments then either the learning or the Christianity of the Scottish Presbyterians will yield to perswade us They say those that framed the Reformation in England being bred under Melancthon among the Lutherans followed them much an end in the order and form which they prescribed But is that any reason for any change before it appear which is in the right I freely profess I find Melancthon the better learned and the more Christian spirit But the Church of England which in divers points differeth from both why should it bee thought to follow either for any reason but as either agrees with the Catholick Church And for that I prefer the Unity of Bohemia before both For they had the rule of Vincentius given them to take their measure by the consent of the Catholick Church and those things which have always and every where been professed and practised in it And had they done nothing but what is justifiable by that Rule I should not blame them for that which I blame in them most But where they agree not with Luther and Calvine wherein do they not agree with the Church of England In particular they sent all over the World to inform themselves of a visible succession of Bishops whose profession was such that they might derive the Ordination of Bishops for their Churches from their hands They took the superstitions of the Greeks to bee such that they could not own it from them In that think they were in the wrong For I doubt not the Greeks would have granted them Ordination only under the profession of the Catholick Church and that had been enough But thinking themselves in a strait of necessity they chose twelve by lots And hearing that the Waldenses lived in Austria under Bishops deriving their succession from the time of Constantine and therefore from the Apostles they sent them thither to bee Ordained protesting against their weakness in going to Mass for fear The protestation was admitted and the persons ordained Bishops Now I take not upon me to maintain the truth of that information concerning the succession of these Bishops whereupon they proceeded But they being reasonably perswaded of it and not knowing how to proceed otherwise through a mistake or an exigent which they could not overcome and setling themselves upon an innocent presumption why should the effect of these Ordinations seem questionable For under these Bishops they have subsisted from that day to this And with what conscience is it demanded for conformity to the Reformation that wee acknowledge them Priests who are ordained against Bishops If wee do not wee shall condemn those Reformed Churches which have no Bishops Is it the fashion that a man quit his cloke because his fellow hath none Or is it any thing else to renounce a good Title because they cannot plead it There was a good expedient in the antient Church to refer things to God which could not bee decided without a breach in the Church Let their zeal against the abuses of the Church of Rome bee counted pardonable with God which caused them to think the Order of Bishops a support of Antichrist when as the Papacy is visibly raised upon the rights of Bishops which it ingrosseth Let the difficulty of procuring Ordinations and having Bishops render them excusable to God Those that are ordained by Presbyters against Bishops on purpose to set up Altar against Altar how can wee count them ordained refusing the concurrence of the Church to their Ordinations They that would tye us to comply with the Reformation are first to show us that the Unity of Bohemia is no part of it And that their Reformation is not to bee preferred either before that of Luther or that of Calvine For can wee acknowledge the Ordinations of Presbyters against their Bishops and not condemn them that sought all over the World for Bishops to ordain them Bishops that the Bishops so ordained might ordain them Presbyters But not only in this prime point of our differences but also in the difference of the Clergy from the people in the three Orders of Bishops Presbyters and Deacons in the mater of Justification and the Eucharist of Confirmation and Penance of the Festivals and Fasts of the Church and of divers Orders and institutions of less consequence their profession agreeth with the antient Church and the Church of England where it departeth from both Luther and Calvine In the mater of Penance though with much humility they tell the Lutherans roundly they have but one of the
succession of persons is of less consideration being subordinate to the succession of Faith and Laws as the means to the end And then I say that supposing a necessity of Ordaining because they who refused the Reformation would not Ordain to that purpose And supposing the Reformation to bee that which God requireth There is cause to presume that the intent which those that agree in it declare supplies by Gods goodness that nullitie which the want of Power to Ordain would otherwise infer For those mistakes of less consequence which humane weakness must needs commit in a work of such weight as it were malice in man to justifie so it may well bee thought mercy in God to excuse This presumption there is that the Churches thus constituted are true Churches And the Offices ministred by persons thus qualified effectual to convey the Grace of God to Christian people But wee suppose in our case that Presbyterian Ordinations tend no more to the exercise of true Christianity then of that which the Church of England hitherto professeth And wee see with our eyes that the authority that maketh them destroyeth it self by destroying the authority of their Bishops from whom it claimeth And therefore to imagine that an Assembly of Divines by being lawfully Ordained to the office of Priests or Deacons according to the Laws of the Church of England can by Commission from the Secular Power make Ordinations which the Laws under which they were Ordained forbid is to imagine that God can inable man to sin or that a Sovereign Power can authorize the Subject to rebell against it self And therefore though the qualities of persons to bee sent you for Pastors may bee otherwise limited by Acts which Parliaments may make yet these qualities not being derived from the authority of the Apostles founding the Church by any act of the Church but from Secular Power and Commission issued from it make them no more Ministers of the Church that are made by Assemblies of Divines and Presbyteries then those that are made by Commission of Triers and for ejecting scandalous Ministers That is both of them being by their creation Schismaticks and their profession not clearing them of misprision of Haeresie they can no more bee acknowledged by those that pretend to adhere to the Church of England then Belial by Christ or darkness by light Hereby then you may conclude how to receive those whom the Presbyterians may send you for Pastors by any change in the Secular Power For I charge not them that they do not believe the Church which they would bee themselves I acknowledge that they secure you from all Sects but themselves But in as much as they maintain Predestination to life onely in consideration of what Christ hath already done or suffered for the Elect in so much I say that they do not nor can Baptize into the Cross of Christ that is to say into the hope of Salvation in consideration of the Covenant of Baptisme For that which is absolutely due as salvation is due to the elect by the gift of Gods Predestination cannot bee burthened with any condition of Christianity afterwards Nor can hee who is once sure to bee saved without that condition which Baptism inacteth bee bound to fight against the flesh the world and the Devil for the keeping of Gods Commandments under the profession of the Christian Faith for the obtaining of that which hee is sure of before And therefore their Baptisme is no effectual Baptisme before God if Baptisme received in the Church of England bee such that is to say it is no Baptisme but by Equivocation of words in as much as the obligation of a mans Christianity is not declared or understood to take hold of him by virtue of it For seeing the hope of salvation which Christians have by their Baptisme is grounded upon the condition of their Christianity that Baptisme which promiseth salvation without providing for this condition is no Baptisme but by equivocation of words I say further that the change which they call Reformation visibly tends to introduce that monstrous imposture of two Sermons every Sabbath in stead of the daily and ordinary service of God together with the more solemn service of God upon Festivals and Lords days and other extraordinary occasions which the Church of England with the whole Church of God from the beginning hath maintained so far as there was means to maintain it I will not here insist upon the order of Bishops and their chief power in their Dioceses as of Divine Right that is instituted and introduced by the Apostles Let the Presbyterians think themselves privileged to erect Altar against Altar upon so desperate a Plea as now they insist upon that the Presbyteries are rather of divine right then the chief Power of Bishops in their Dioceses I insist now only that this Power of the Bishops was not against Gods Law which every man must grant me that acknowledges a Church in England from the Reformation till now In this case they who to introduce this Christianity and this publick exercise of it transgressing that authority to which they were called by the visible act of the Church of England take upon them to share that Power from which they had their authority among themselves and to execute it by consent among themselves in their several precincts cannot bee said to constitute a Church by virtue of any act of the Apostles or any authority derived from such act but by virtue of their own act as all Apostates and usurpers do That is to say that they do not constitute such a Church by being a member whereof a man may reasonably assure himself of salvation upon any principle of Christianity but such a Church as is indeed no Church unless it bee by equivocation of terms but a conventicle of Schismaticks with the misprision of the Haeresie aforesaid And therefore their Priesthood is no Priesthood their Eucharist is no Eucharist unless it bee by equivocation of words but Sacrilege against Gods Ordinance Besides that what is requisite to the consecration of the Eucharist or wherein it consists they seem to bee as secure of and as little to regard as the most ignorant of those Sects into which the once common name of Puritans stands divided at this time Neither is it in any Secular Power though never so unquestionable to cure these nullities and incapacities in the pretense upon which they take upon them to bee a Church Though for the present they are not so much as authorized to the world by any privilege or penalty enacted by any Secular Power but only protected by that which now possesseth Whereby the world may see that there is nothing but their own usurpation and the consent of those whom they have debauched to their Schisme for them to subsist by under the pretense of a Church And that they will by virtue of their Original bee as malignant to any Secular Power that shall not maintain and
correspondent to the primitive forme tending to the Unity of the Whole But let no man think that for the love of such a correspondence I have any itch to call in question the Unity of the Whole The alteration is great and must needs produce a great motion to ingraffe it into the Laws of the Kingdom And therefore I am not of opinion to change the Law for hope of amendment with so much appearance of danger to the being of the Whole But I am of opinion that it would bee easie to erect Presbyteries that is Colleges of Presbyters in all Shire Towns which have no Cathedral Churches for the Ecclesiastical Government of the respective Counties with and under the Bishops And that so the Rule of the Church would bee set on work to the best effect and purpose For those Towns have commonly Churches altogether unprovided of means through the horrible sacrileges that have passed and yet in common reason agreeing with the wisdom of Gods Spirit from whence the Rule of Episcopacy issued ought to bee Nurseries of Christianity to the respective Counties And that intent cannot so well bee brought to effect as by planting the wisest and those that have most of the Clergy in their lives in the most eminent places with authority next to the Chief over their respective bounds By the ministery of such persons the Offices of Gods service might so bee performed in the chief places as might be a patern for their Country Churches to follow These Presbyters might grow up by education in that discipline of the Clergy which I have recommended upon the experience of the whole Church They might live a Collegiate life in common exercising a care and inspection over Inferiours together with the charge of instructing or seeing them instructed in the Scriptures The Canon of the whole Church confining all degrees of the Clergy to their respective Churches might bee revived by their means The superseding whereof being certainly one of the irregularities of the Papacy hath conduced much to the dissolution of Discipline in the Church For in conscience how can hee that is obliged to any Church give account of himself to another to which the first is not subordinate And therefore though the Presbyteries which I propose bee not Churches yet may they take account of their respective Clergy and render it to their Bishops The promotion of inferiour Orders belonging unto their account may procced upon the account which they give The censures that are requisite to pass in foro exteriori may pass them in the first instance and from them being transmitted to the Bishop bee either inacted or voided Always with right of appeal to the Synod of the Province in cases of weight and in the intervals thereof to their Deputies To which purpose and in which nature the High Commission ought to bee revived For as it is by no means to bee allowed that the Bishops negative bee any way questioned So is it no way fit that the consent of Bishop and Presbyters both bee concluded in one and the same instance As for those Dioceses which are concluded within only one County there I suppose I need not say that the Chapter of the Cathedral are by inheritance this Presbytery Now these Colleges of Presbyters consisting of those only that shall have run the whole course of their lives in the education and discipline of the Clergy is there any possible pretense of burthen upon them if the condition of single life should bee required to qualifie them for their places For this were not to tye any man to single life seeing who will may go forth and bee provided of a Country Church But it were to maintain the discipline of the Clergy in the most eminent places wherein there is a course proposed to them who imbrace it of ending their days in it And the course of a Collegiate life which I propose seemeth a sufficient means and advantage to overcome those temptations which in these days may seem too difficult for all the Clergy to undergo As for the means of supporting these Presbyteries wherein the Gure of all Parishes within the Shire Towns is provided for and included It is no difficulty to him that considers with conscience that originally the indowment of the Diocese was the Patrimony of the Mother Church and afterwards appropriated to Parish Churches by abating the right of the Mother Church upon particular contracts appearing to bee for the good of the parts For if the Mother Church have abated so much of her common right when it was for the good of the Parishes Is it not necessary that the Parishes now abate of their property in their respective indowments by Pensions to these Colleges now they appear to bee for the good of t●e Diocese And this I am now bold to profess though Superiors do not go before in it because I am confident that by this position I abate not a hair of that Power which the Bishops in England now use But I adde much to the strictness of discipline that is in effect of Christianity by requiring all Ordinations all acts of Jurisdiction in foro exteriori to pass both the Presbyters and the Bishop in several instances And further then this I extend not the opinion of a Divine to particulars but leave the rest intire to the wisdom of Superiors And this may serve to show that there is no cause why the difference on foot concerning the Government of the Church may not settle into a change conducing to the advancement of the common Christianity Which will hold till stronger in the other concerning the Service if men take their measures by the common interest of Christianity not by their particular prejudices For I conceive I may well suppose that the Sectaries pretense of praying by the Spirit is content to bee buried in oblivion and silence considering that the excesses are evident and horrible which that pretense hath brought forth Besides that no man now stands to that dangerous position That the Offices of Gods service are of no effect when they are ministred by such as are not in the state of Grace For I presume it is not nor can bee supposed on any hand that all whom the Church must imploy are indowed with Gods spirit that is are in the state of Grace I suppose further as not questioned on any hand that the publick service of God is to consist of the praises of God by the Psalms of David and other Hymns of Gods Church of the reading of the Scriptures of the instruction of Gods people out of them in fine of the Prayers of the Church and in the chief place of the Sacrament of the Eucharist and those prayers which it is to bee celebrated with Some of our Sects have been bold to pretend that the Psalter or Psalms of David are impertinent to the Devotions of Christians as concerning the particular condition of David and composed with regard to it Whereby they