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A53381 A sober discourse of the honest cavalier with the popish couranter wherein the author of the Dialogue between the Pope and fanatick vindicates himself to be an hearty lover of his prince and countrey : to which is annexed, A serious epistle to Hodge / by a person of quality. Onslow, Richard Onslow, Baron, 1654-1717. 1680 (1680) Wing O350; ESTC R21447 17,153 26

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Succession of Bishops and Priests they retain a Liturgy they continue the Sign of the Cross and bow at the Name of Jesus and wear the Surplice and seeing in all these things they agree with the Church of Rome Therefore the Church of England are Papists Now from the same Systeme of Logick I thus argue The Turk agrees with the Protestants in their renouncing the Popes Infallibility Supremacy Indulgence Transubstantiation Adoration of Images c. Ergo the Turk is a Protestant Sir I think it just as far from Constantinople to Geneva as from Geneva to Constantinople and when your Cretain Disputers will quit their Sophistry and grant the Church of England to be no Papists then I will be so honest as to protest That the Turk is no Protestant but till then I will defend that the Argument does bene quadrare or in plain English 't is as long as 't is broad Pray Sir do not mistake me for I assure you I am so far from any Alliance to Popery that I dare adventure to converse with that nice Company of Mr. Oates I am sure he never saw me at a Popish Consult in his Life I have had the good Fortune never to know one Jesuite or Romish Priest in Europe but I confess I have no great Fondness for the Words Protestant● though I am resolved to live and die in that Religion as it is wisely established in the Church of England and because I am not of the Fanatick-Temper to cavil for nothing but Obstinacy and Humor I will ingenuously give you my Reasons why I have a singular Disgust against that Word Protestant I doubt not but you are so much Dutchified as to understand the Phrase Hogan-Mogan as well as I and to grant Protestant to be a High and Mighty Word in England but yet for all this I do not like it and for these Reasons First My last Intelligence from Adrianople assured me That the Grand Sultan and all his Musselmen are no way Popishly affected but are ready to take the Test against Popery and to renounce all Popish Doctrines and Superstitions with as much Devotion as any Presbyterian in England Now if the meer Protesting against the Pope must be the Essential Character of Christian Religion I confess I cannot tell how to avoid the Consequence but must conclude the Turk to be a Protestant and I think that Name ought not to be so passionately Courted by a Christian that will not distinguish him from a Turk Secondly The Established Church of England though the best Reformed Church in the World yet in great Wisdom does not assume this particular Characteristick of Protestant in all its Articles Canons and Liturgy and therefore I see no reason why I should be so privately enamoured of that Name which the Church never thought fit Publickly to espouse Thirdly The Word Protestant is above four and fifty Degrees of Northern Latitude and hath so large an Arch that it comprehends Quakerism Anabaptism Catabaptism Familism and all the Fanatick Colonies and New-found-Lands of Enthusiasm And though Sir such a Paper-Roguery as the Dialogue may call these men Fanaticks yet you know all sober and moderate men call them Protestants and I acknowledge I have no great kindness for that Word which does level a Cathedral to a Conventicle and makes no distinction betwixt an Archbishop and a Lay-Elder If I were cast upon Japan and some Commanding Japonese would have an Account of my Religion I suppose you would give me leave to answer I am a Christian which is a Sound intelligible to all Nations If I should tell him I was a Protestant he would Fancy that Name to be some particular Sect of Northern Paganism But suppose in my Return I should Land at Thoulon and there some Brisk Monsieurs should demand my Religion now if I should answer I was a Protestant they would run me through all the Compass of Protestant Religion ask me Whether I were a Protestant according to the North or according to the Points of the North and by East or the North North-East or the North-East and by North and so whirl me through more than two and thirty Points before I could come to State my true Position And since our Circumstances require that we must have some other Denomination besides that of Christian I confess I have most Veneration for the Title of Catholick which was of much Elder Date than the Papacy and hath been Confirmed and Conseerated by Three Creeds and Four General Councils and the constant Vsage of the Eastern and Western Churches and though the Ancient Church did in Councils and Publick Confessions protest against the Heresies of Arrius Novatus Eutyches Donatus c with as much Solemnity as ever any did against Popish Doctrines yet they thought it not Wisdom from this Accident to call themselves Protestants but did sacredly retain the old Title of Catholick and notwithstanding the general Signification of the Word Catholick yet I observe that particular Patriarchates and Provinces of the Christian Church did claim a share in this Title for I have seen Imperial and Conciliary Epistles to the Bishops of the Catholick Church of Alexandria Constantinople c. And this Sir before the first Date of your History of Popery I love no Stylo novo in Religion and therefore according to the Old Style I call my self a Member of the Reformed Catholick Church of England Now this Character will distinguish me from the Pope the Fanatick and the Turk that Fiery Triplicity of the World Fourthly I have a Perswasion That if the several Churches which reformed themselves from the Errors and Superstitions of Rome had continued a Succession of Bishops and Priests and had retained the Title of Catholick with some decent Reverence in publick Solemnities all modest Papists would have embraced the Communion of the Reformed Churches and the Pope would soon have been confined to St. Peter's Patrimony But leaving the Pope in possession of that Ancient Title of Catholick and assuming to our selves a New Style which the Church never knew for 1500 years was as mighty an advantage to Rome and as great a mischief to the Reformation as our Enemies themselves could have designed for this gave occasion for many to conclude That our Church had no Elder Epocha than the Augustan Confession and that our Religion was as new as the Title of it How many Proselytes this great Scandal though little Argument hath gained the Church of Rome I leave to unpassionate men to consider and whether the Jesuite have not used all his Arts to render this Word Protestant as Sacred and Venerable as he can is not unworthy of Suspition or Enquiry I know there are many good Men who never well thought of this Matter who with great Innocence glory as much in the Title of Protestant as the Ancient Martyrs in that of Christian and I openly declare without any Masquerade That I do as sincerely abhor all Papal Usurpations Innovations and Superstitions as
not wear a Surplice in Winter because it is too cold a Garment They would fancy themselves to be in Lapland and buried in Snow and to put it on in Summer looks like going into the Furnace of Babylon perhaps there may be two or three Critical Daies within the Calendar of Moderation when these Men will vouchsafe to be clothed in white but then they wear these Ornaments of the Church with more Regret than the Christian-Martyrs did the Bear-skins It is enjoyned by Rubrick and Statute-Law That the Offices of Morning and Evening Praier should be fully and exactly performed for this Service being devoted both by Church and State as the National Sacrifice to the Eternal God There is great reason that the God of Infinite Perfection should not be affronted with the sleight Oblation of half a Sacrifice but I know some whom the People will call sober and moderate Men who like the irregular Sons of Eli will chose and snatch at some peculiar parts of the Sacrifice which best please their nicer fancies and leave the rest as not worthy to be touched It is prescribed both by Authority of Church and Parliament that the Communion-Office to the end of the Catholick-Praier should upon all Sundays and Festivals be read at the Holy Table and this is so far from Innovation that the whole Christian World for about 1500 years never had such a thing as a Desk in their Houses of Praier but all their Devotions or Christian-Sacrifices which were immediately directed to the Almighty God were offered up at the holy Table which was therefore called the Altar and I have reason to believe that this Altar was railed in for I find the Council of Chalcedon which assembled in the Church of S. Euphemia were placed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is sitting before the Cancelli Rails or Steps of the holy Altar and yet I know men within the establisht Church who are more unwilling to go to the Altar than our Saviour was to go up to Mount Calvar men who never come at the Table but upon the necessity of a Sacrament and then too they will force the Table to come down to them It is required that he who Ministers should read the Publick Prayers with a distinct and audible voice I know some of these moderate men who read them with such cold and careless murmurings as if they thought that Sacrifice not worthy of the Calves of their lips but when they mount the Pulpit the Calm is changed into Thunder and Tempest It was the custome of the Ancient Church and the Command of our own to use the sign of the Cross within the Office of Baptisme and though that usage is carefully stated and expounded by the Sense of the Church to prevent mistake or superstition yet I know some who prefer the Chamber before the Church and the Possit-Bason before the Hallowed Font which have no more regard to this significant Ceremony than Jews or Mahometans who are declared Enemies to the Cross of Christ Indeed if there chance to be in the Parish a bold Cavaliering Gentleman who looks upon the Cross as the great Ensign of our Religion and Nation perhaps if such an one be concerned the moderate Curate may be frighted into observance and yet then if possible he will cheat the Congregation and give the Infant only a dash over the head like an Adverb but will avoid crossing the line for fear of raising Spirits or Storms Now in this matter I would humbly advise these scrupulous Gentlemen to construe and consider the modest Sentiment of Isaac Caesai●bon who was a man of as much learning and as little Popery as any moderation-man in England Scimus veterem Ecclesiam in vita communis usu in ritibus sacris multum usam esse venerabili illo signo sed ut pia ceremonia quae rationi addicta animos fidelium ad Christi crucem veheret non materiae alicui terrenae aut figurae aut gestui affigeret Hoc sensu Sanctissimi Prudentissimique illi Antistites qui Ecclesiae in Anglia reformandae negotio praefuerunt in publicis locis cruces passi sunt remanere in nonnullis etiam ritibus sacris retinuerunt ut in Baptismo And now truly Sir I am still of opinion that those Demi-canons whose mouths are turned into the Church do it more mischief than all the Fanatick Blunderbusses Cour. You call the Commons of England uneducated Cav This Cavil is so idle and so mistaken that it deserves not to be considered and therefore all I shall say to it is this that that part of the Commons who are indued with honesty and good education will have so much wit and loyalty as never to quarrel with the expression and for the rest they are at your service Cour. Nay but you dishonour the Gentlemen and say they are half-witted and easie to be imposed upon Cav I see malice is no good Commentator for the Text implies no more than that some of the Commons are uneducated and some of the Gentlemen half-witted and he that doth not believe this to be true must neither have wit nor education I call them half-witted Gentlemen who will suffer their private Animosities to become publick Quarrels against their Prince I think them half-witted Gentlemen who can be decoyed into the Tents of the Faction by that cajoling pretence that there is no method to keep out Popery but to bring in the Presbyterian Now these wheadled Gentlemen look to me like the Sheep in the Apologue who being informed that the ill-natured Curs had a plot upon the Flock were put into great hurries some of the wisest thought it their greatest security and interest to keep close to the conduct and protection of the Shepherd but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 appointed several Woollen Committees to consider of this grand Affair these Staple-Politicians voted in the Wolves as the most proper and stoutest Guardians against their implacable Enemies the bloody Dogs but no sooner were these Patrons admitted into the Fold but they devoured that Flock they were chosen to defend even so he that hath but one scruple of Wit will understand the Moral Shall not I think those Gentlemen easie to be imposed upon who can be brought to believe that those men who once overturned the Government are the fittest persons to be chosen to support it Cour. But there 's worse than all this yet for you scoffe at the Protestant Religion and call it a Hogan-Mogan Word nay you say the Turk may be taken into the Poll-Book of Protestants because he abhors the Popish Mass c. Cav I do not question but you have seen the Letter from Legorn Now I do think the Turk is full as much a Protestant as the Queen is a Mahometan and I will further maintain That the Turks are as much Protestants as the Church of England are Papists for thus your dear Friends dispute against us The Church of England continues a