ye can be no Prelate of the Garter beeing no Prelate at all that beeing a prerogatiue appropriate to the Prelate and B. of VVinchester Soft M. St. if ye be so playne blunt a man as ye pretrÌ„d ne sutor vltra crepâ—…da hew not tâ—… hye least chips fall in your eye blunder not so rudely with princes must the Q. Maiestie beare with you to bicause you must needs go bluntly to worke ye presume to determine what the Q. highnes may do She can make him â—… but she can not make him L. B. of VV. And why so M. St considering he is not Lorde but in respecte of some baronage and temporalties belonging and annexed to the See of VVinchester Ergâ—… then ye graunt him to be Lorde B. by your owne words to whom the Q. highnesse as you graunt she may in respect of the temporalties and baronies belonging therto hath graunted and giuen him them Wherby she hath made him Lord except ye wil denie that hir highnesse authoritie which euen al your popish bishops did receiue before at hir graces progenitors hands neither the baronies and temporalties onely wheâ—…by they were named Lords but their inuestiture also wherby they were Byshops at the Princes handes But see stil how bluntly ye go to worke against your self for hast to remoue this title of Lord from the B. of W. ye ouerturn the glory of your own prelats For if this your rule be true that he is not called Lord but in respect of some baronies temporalties belonging and annexed to the See how many Cardinals Bishops Suffraganes Abbots Priors euen in Italie that haue neither baronies nor muche temporalties should léese their title of Lorde honour thinke you all these will be pleased with this your rule We must beare with you there is no remedie and well may M. Feck of friendship the B. of pitie beare with you also the Quéenes maiestie of hir gracious clemencie beareth with your saucie bluntnesse But assure your selfe and ye were as blunt playne as euer were your Marcolphus those Italian prelates if ye stayne their honour will neuer beare with you one iot And I rede you beware this bluntnesse for they can do much with your holy father the Pope except ye be so blunt ye care not for him neither But deale with them as ye may ye are blunt inoughe in your owne conceite for the finest of them all Let vs sée what reasons moueth you to be so blunt with the B. He is not L. Byshop of VVin. nor Prelate of the Garter Why so bicause he is no B. or Prelate at all How proue ye that he is an vsurper he is an intruder he is called therto by no lawfull vocation nor canonicall consecration c. he is no true B. c. his vocation is direct contrarie to the canons and constitutions of the Churche and to the vniuersall custome and maner heretofore vsed and practised not onely in Englande but also in all other Catholike countreys and Churches deliuered to vs from hande to hande from age to age euen from the first graâ—…fing and planting of the fayth especially in Englande Here are many blunt playne words in déede M. St. and many great crakes but here is no proofe of any do not think ye muste still be thus borne withall your to muche presuming of eche mans pacience to beare with your rudenesse will hazarde your credite to farre excepte ye alledge some reason of your sayings Let vs heare therefore what proues ye bring For the which I referre me say you to all autentike and auncient â–ª recordes as well of Englande as of other Nations concerning the ordinary succession of Bishops namely in the foresayde Sea of VVinchester for there was not no not one in that Sea that did not acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome and that was not confirmed by the same vntil the late time of M. Poynet who otherwise also was an vsurper the true B. then liuing and by no lawfull or ecclesiasticall order remoued or depriued Ye are therefore the first B. of this sewt and race and so consequently no B. at al. As not able to shew to whom ye did ordinarily succede and any good or customable either vocation or coÌ„secration VVhich point being necessarily required in a B. and in your Apostles Luther and Caluin other lacking as I haue otherwhere sufficieÌ„tly proued though you by depesilence thinke it more wisdome vtterly to desâ—…emble than once to answere they being therwith pressed were so messhed and bewrapped therein that they coulde not in this worlde witte what to say thereto answearing this and that they wiste neare what nor at what poynt to holde them yea Beza was fayne at the last assemblie at Poysie with silence to confesse the inuincible truth Setting aside these vaine crakes manifest lying slaunders which I referre to your common places M. St. I will answeare onely to your inuincible argument Which standeth vpon your common bragge of succession Your argument is this ye succeede no Bishop of VVinchester Ergo ye are no Bishop of VVincester I answere First if he meane succession of the person in the roome your antecedent is euident false He succeded the persons of Popishe Bishops in the same roome And the consequent followeth not For then the first Bishop of that Sea was no B. bicause he succeded none but was the first therâ—…f And if the first was none then the second was none and so there was neuer any at all If ye meane sucession of the doctrine and the Apostles rules then neyther Bishoppe Gardiner whom ye call the true B. nor any popishe Bishops haue succession but digression and defection from them And our Bishoppes haue the true succession that is to say followe the doctrine and orders of the Apostles prescribed in the worde of god for a Bishops office But howe do ye proue your antecedent Of all the Bishops not onely in Englande but in other nations namely in the Sea of VVinchester From hand to hand from age to age euen from the first grafting and planting of the fayth in Englande not one of them all no not one that did not acknowledge the supremacie of the sea of Rome and that was not confirmed by the same But you do not acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome nor are confirmed by the same Ergo ye are the first Bishop of this sewt and race and so consequently no bishop at all as not able to shew to whome ye did ordinarily succeede or any good and customable eyther vocation or consecration This argument M. Stapleton is of a newe sewt and race it succedeth neither good nor customable moode or figure and therfore can make no good successe Howbeit lâ—…t vs sée the partes of it The minor we graunt as euident on the Bishops part For the maior we must put you to your proufe We affirme it to conteyne many euident falshoodes For proufe hereof
you say for the which I referre me to all autentike and auncient recordes as well of Englande as of other nations Ye say well herein master Stapleton and we take your offer And fiâ—…st let vs sée for other Nations Did Iames euen the first Bishop of Hierusalem acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome Was he confirmed by the same Sea when as yet the same Sea was not to be acknowledged or be confirmed by If as you say the B. can be no prelate of the Gaâ—…ter being no prelate at all how could that Sea be acknowledged that was not at all Moreouer do ye thinke that Timothie Bishoppe of Ephesus or Titus of Crâ—…ta and all other Bishoppes of Asia or Grece that Sainte Paule made acknowledged the supremacie of the Sea of Rome or were confirmed by the same when Sainte Paule that ordeyned them sayeth he receyued his authoritie of no man And when he came to Rome he neyther came to haue his Bishops confirmed of the Sea of Rome nor he founde anye Sea there nor sought Peter for the saide purpose else where nor thought himselfe any whitte inferiour to him much lesse thought he of any suche supremacie eyther of his Sea or him Nowe if the first and originall of all those Bishoprikes Eastwarde neyther acknovvledged anye supremacie of that Sea nor were confirmed by the same What plea can you make of theyr succession If they swarued from theyr predecessours and first founders your selfe confesse it is no good succession but a newe sewte and race And if it be good and lawfull succession that the Bishops of the East Churches succeded by then neyther acknowledged they anye supremacie of the Sea of Rome nor were confirmed by the same euen which not onelye the true autentyke and auncient recordes doe testifie howe they agréed although in sayth yet nothing lyke in disciplines rytes and orders to whiche the Romaine Sea doth sweare all those Bishoppes that are confyrmed by it and acknowledge obedience therevnto But also euen to this daye thoughe one or two Bishoppes nowe and then of late time for verye necessitie and hope of reliefe haue runne to the Sea of Rome yet by theyr ordinarie and customable succession euen from the Apostles times so long as they continued Christian neuer acknowledged they the supremacie of the Sea of Rome nor were confirmed by the same The like recordes for the Churches southward remaine not only of their beginnings from the other Apostles not from the Sea of Rome but also of their continuance howe they woulde not admitte anye supremacie of the same Sea ouer them and what contention they had thereabout As for their confirmations that they had them not from the sea of Rome but euen from the Emperour yea the Bishop of Rome himselfe and other from their princes the practise when we come thereto shall shewe And as east warde and southwarde so may we like wise reason of the Church westward where S. Paule after he had bene two yeare at Rome by the space of tenne yeares trauelled in Italie Spaine and Fraunce as witnesse Eusebius Epiphanius Ierome Euthalius Diaconus Nicephorus Beda Platina yea Frier Perionius that wrote the other daye de vitâ—…s Apostolorum that in Langue doâ—… he made a Bishoppe at Narbona who trauelled after with him in Spaine And if in all that space as it is most likely he made other Bishops shall we suppose they were not full Bishops till they had their Bulles from the Sea of Rome And if the first B. did not so your reason of succession fayleth So that your maior is false concerning other Nations Now let vs briefly sée howe it likewise fayles for England And as you say Namely in the foresayde Sea of VVinchester that from the first grafting and planting of the fayth in England there was not no not one in that Sea that did not acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome and was not confirmed by the same vntill the late time of master Poynet who otherwise also was but an vsurper the true Bishop then liuing by no lawful or ecclesiasticall order remoued or depriued The lawfull order and sufficient causes of B. Gardeners depriuation is extant and sette out in the booke of Monumentes Howe true a Bishop as ye call him he was if the acknowledging of obedience to the Sea of Rome bée an argument of a true Bishop his booke de vera obedientia of true obedience doth declare and almost all the time of his bishopriche he neuer acknowledged the supremacie to apperteine to the Sea of Rome but to the prince as the Bishop now doth there néede no recordes for the matter And as for olde recordes since the first grafting and planting of the faythe in Englande whiche is farre longer than eyther from your Apostle monke Augustine or from Birinus Bishop of Winchester the recordes do testifie howe the Christians whome your Augustine and his mates founde in thys Realme neyther kept the ceremonyes and rytes of the Romaine Churche nor admitted the Legantine authoritie of your sayde Apostle which argueth that theyr Bishoppes acknowledged not as you saye the supremacie of the Sea of Rome nor were confirmed by the same euen from Lucius till almost King Arthures tyme when the Heathen Sarons so preuayled in the west parts that euen in Winchester in King Arthures reigne Cerdicius erected a Temple of Heathen Idolles falsely called yet to this daye the Temple of Dagon as the olde recordes doe mention And therefore your maior is false for Englande also Now M. St. séeing the falsenesse of this argument of succession to be such that he dare not abide the triall of his recordes he flyeth from it and graunteth at the length the B. vocation to be good and sownd Yet hath he a stronger reason to disable him which is this No heretike ought to be admitted to a Byshops roome or if he be he forthwith ought to be remoued But for that yee are yoked or as ye pretende maryed ye are no doubt an Heretike Ergo were your vocation good and sounde yet haue you disabled your selfe to occupie that roome and eyther ought not to be admitted or forthwith ought ye to be remoued I aunswere the maior iâ—… true and if it were as truely executed none should better féele it than the popish prelates who confesse them selues not only for other Seas but euen for their hed and mother sea of Rome that diuers hereâ—…ikes haue bene B. thereof Who being so admitted I demaunde with Piers PlowmaÌ„ of you M. St. by this your maior who shall hang the Bell about the rattons necke who shall remoue an heretike Bishop of Rome I thinke it will belong or euer he remoue him selfe The minor of this argument is of the diuels sophisâ—…rie so S. Paule calleth it doctrinam daemoniorum and sayth let a B. be the husbande of one wife and so was Saint Peter who ye say was your first Bishoppe of Rome And yet neither was Saint
eyes to see eares to heare and handes to feele we can not choose but beholde it in the face 434. a. Ye had neede looke well to your selfe remember nowe among other things master Horne c. Take heede master Horne Thinke vpon this at your good laysure remember also howe ye stande c. VVherein I pray you resteth a great part of your newe clergie B. But in Butchers C. Cookes Catchpoles and Coblers D. Diers Daubers F. Fellons Fishermen G. Gunners H. Harpers I. Inkeepers M. Merchants and Mariners N. Netmakers P. Potters Poticaries and Porters of Belingsgate R. Ruffling Ruffians S. Sadlers Sheremen and Shepeheardes T. Tanners Tylers Tinkers Trumpetters VV. VVeauers VVherrymen 481. a. b. This and such other is his Rhetorik eyther flourishing with 〈◊〉 wordes running on a letter and nowe and then sifting the whole crosse rowe for them Or else doubling and trâ—…bling of 〈◊〉 phrases or multiplying of wordes with which euery sentence is in a maner farced For 〈◊〉 is not commonly content to expresse his minde with one worde be it 〈◊〉 so plaine except he vnderproppâ—… it with an other at the least as thus miserable and wretched peruerting and deprauing The full illustration and opening of whole and entyre matter Euidently and openly disciphered and disclosed espied and vnbuckled bewrayed and detected opened illustred and confirmed Which as it is most vaine babling so is it altogither vnworthy the noting except briefly to shew the reader what kinde of vanitie he hath puft vp this his Counterblast withall His sixt common place of impertinent discourses His ovvne obiection of the same LIke a wanton Spaniell hee runneth from his game at riot 243. Master Horne sayth he seeketh out bye matters leauing the principall as the Donatistes did 321. a. That thou mayest the better sée howe he obserueth this and kéepeth himselfe to his matter or no first beholde the issue and state of the question betwéene the Bishop and M. Fëckhenham which is this VVhether any Prince haue taken on them any such supreme gouernment as dothe the Q. Maiestie in ecclesiasticall causes Which issue to be resolued in Master Feckenham desireth the proufe by any of these foure wayes eyther by the Scriptures or by the Doctors or by the Councels or by the continuall practise in any one part of Christendome To the which issue by all these foure said wayes the Bishop directeth all his prooues and in this first booke he prooueth it by two of them the Scriptures and the Doctors Now whether Master Stapleton kéepe himself to this issue or to the proufes thereof or to the Bishops answere without playing the wanton Spaniell and the part of the Donâ—… iudge when thou hast read this his sixt common place And withall thou shalt sée what good plentie of bye matters he had in store when substantiall matter â—…ayled him In his first Preface taking on him to gather abriefe summe of such things as he thought specially he might deface the Bishop withall throughout all his Preface he neuer setteth 〈◊〉 the issue in controuersie but quarelleth about other things with the Bishops rashnesse follie Grammer Logike Rhetorike Arithmetike And where at the length he speaketh of king Henrie 1. his dealings in punishing Priestes whoredome to shewe â—…ow of purpose he séeketh out his quarelles he slinketh from the Princes dealing wherewith he is vrged and sayth this is not the thing we now seeke for but to know what kinde of whoredome it was that the Priestes shoulde be punished for Pag. 12. And Pag. 18. letting go the matter that he is in hande withall he discourseth agaynst the Bishop of Sarum about Sabellicus titles In the 2. Preface where he bindeth himselfe 〈◊〉 than in the. 1. to declare the whole pith of the question and course of the Bishops and his owne â—…ke he digresseth into a common quarell about diuersitie of fects and heresies which he ascribeth to the Protestants he câ—…eth into Greece Affrica Bohemia Hungarie Lifelande pag. 30 and so commeth home to Englande digressing from the question and issue to English bookes to forbidding of the Bible to be read to the iudgemeÌ„t of Lambert to burning to religious houses Pag. 31. to vowes to repealing lawes to setting forth a newe religion to mariage of Priestes to consecrating â–ª Bishops to the reall presence Pag. 32. Then runneth he to search out discorde in the Protestants and quarelling about wordes in the act and iniunction he maketh an exhortation to returne to the Romaine Church 33. 34. 35. In the aunswere to the Bishops Preface the first whole diuision fo 1. 2. a. b. A loâ—…g impertinent discourse to molliâ—…e master Feckenhams pretence for setting out his booke A number of bie matters falsely charging the Bishop with diuerse impertinent slaunders 2. b. 3. a. Pretending to direct the reader to the question here in trouersie for the nonce he setteth vp a number of newe markes that master Feckenham and the Bishop medleth not withall 3. b. Fol. 4. a. He quarelleth at the Bishop of Sarum for the 600. yeares and the Bishop of Winchester for alleaging testimonies of later yeares calling this vneuen dealing of the Protestants He quarelleth about precise wordes He maketh a new chalenge to the Bishop he chargeth the Bishop of a late bragge none of all these things belonging any whit to the matter 4. b. 5. a. In his first booke A long outrode whether the Bishop were well called by M. Feck the Lorde Bishop of VVinchester or no. 7. a. b. Whether he be Bishop or prelate of the Garter 7. b. succession of Bishops 8. a â–ª against the mariage of Bishops of flesh on Frydayes of a Pigge turned into a Pike That the Protestants be Heretikes euen by the Apologie of England 8. b. An inuectiue against the actes of Parliament of altering religion agaynst the will of the whole clergie that the Bishop can not defende himselfe to bee a Bishop by any lawe of the Realme About the reall presence transubstantiation and adoration 9. a. Deniall of free will the necessitie of baptising children vnlawfull mariage 9. b. A long inuectiue agaynst the disputation at VVestminster Anno. reginae 1. with a number of friuolous excuses whie they shranke from it 12. a. b. 13. a. A long digression almost of 13. leaues togither nothing to the question but discoursing into all countreys Boheme Germanie Denmarke Swethland Brabant Hollande Flaunders Lukelande Englande Fraunce Scotlande Saxonie Hessia VVestphalia besides many townes and Cities chiefly about the businesse in the lowe Countreys to deface the Gospell by the tumults there raysed as the worlde well séeth onely by the practises of the Papists Fol. 33. b. Hauing mentioned the plague he falleth into wicked ghessing that the procedings in that Parliament were the cause of the plague that reigned at London and once againe a â—…ing at the Bishops that they be no Church nor yet Parliament Bishops A long impertinent bibble babble about master Feckenhams ioly disputations begon at London and ended at
turne ye are to gredie man remember that qui cupit totum perdit totum But let vs sée your sixe demaundes whether they be reasonable and to be graunted yea or no. There are therefore say you many thinges to be considered first that Christ lefte one to rule his vvhole Churche in his steade from time to time vnto the ende of the vvorlde Is this your first request to be considered and graunted M. Stapleton now surely a reasonable demaund to be considered vpon And woorthie to haue that Salomon graunted to Adonias for asking of Abisaâ—…g to wife Wise king Salomon saw he might aswell haue asked the crowne from his head yea his head from his shoulders and who so vnwise that seeth not ye might aswell aske the whole controuersie to be graunted you and graunt ye this what néede ye propounde your other principles following How be it let vs sée what they be also Secondly we muste consider ye say that this one vvas S. Peter the Apostle and novv are the Bishops of Rome his successours Out of doubt ye had on some great considering câ—…ppe M. Stapleton when you considered that the Bishop should haue considered this He was much to blame he considered it not but M. Stapl. and ye were as wise as God might haue made you ye would haue better coÌ„sidered with your selfe than to thinke others haue so litle consideration as to graunt ye this your false and foolishe principle Thirdly say you that albeit the Bishop of Rome had no such vniuersall gouernment ouer the vvhole yet that he is and euer vvas the Patriarche of Englande and of the vvhole VVest Church and so hath as much to do here as any other Patriarche in his Patriarchshippe It is a signe M. Stap â–ª ye shrewdly doubte the former twains woulde neuer be graunted that so soone would be content to become a Patriarche of a piece from a Pope of the whole which though it sheweth lesse haughtinesse in you that would play small game rather than sit out yet perchance your Pope is of Alexanders spirite to whome Darius hauing offred halfe his dominions if I were Alexander ê™ Parmenio I would take it so would I ê™ Alexander if I were Parmenio And so perchance your Pope will say to you if I were Master Stapleton I would be content at least to be a Patriarche and perchance a worse rowme woulde serue But beyng the Bishop of Rome he will say Aut Papa aut nihil And therefore least ye get his curse before ye aske our consent the surest way were to know how he will like of this your limitation and when he shal be content then propose it to vs to consider thereon But I see ye like not greatly to stande hereon for fourthly say you Then all vvere it that he had nothing to intermedle vvith vs nor as Pope nor as Patriarche yet can not this supremacie of a ciuill Prince be iustified VVhereof he is not capable especially a vvoman but it must remayne in some spirituall man. Your must is very mustie M. Stapl. and smelleth of the pumpe of Romes ship Your Sequence is as badde the B. of Rome neyther as Pope nor as Patriarche is supreme gouernour in Ecclesiasticall causes in England Ergo No ciuill Prince man or woman is capable of it Againe There must be one spirituall man that must haue an vniuersall gouernment ouer the whole Churche Ergo â–ª A ciuill Prince may haue no particuler gouernement in his particuler Churche The antecedents in déede are true of bothe For neither hath the Pope as Pope or Patriarche or any otherwise any supreme gouernement ouer Englande as you presuppose he had none and yet the Prince both may haue and hath some supreme gouernement ouer vs For in déede all supreme gouernement suche as the Pope vsurped she neither hath nor may haue nor requireth nor belongs to any creature but is due to Christ alone He is that spirituall man that your other antecedent speaketh of if ye meane him it is true if you meane any other it is but your false presupposall though the consequentes whereon we stande followeth neither way neither doe ye laboure once to proue them But is here all things we muste consider no say you for fiftly Besides this the Catholikes say that as there vvas neuer any such president heretofore in the catholike Church so at this present there is no suche excepte in Englande neither among the Lutherans the Suinglians the Suenkfeldians or Anabaptists or any other secte that at this day raygneth or rageth in the vvorlde None of these I say agnyse their ciuill Prince as supreme gouernour in al causes spirituall and temporall Let goe these raging termes of sectes M. Sta. to their common places and I pray ye tell vs once agayne who sayth thus Who euen the Catholikes say so But whome meane you by the Catholiks The Papists Then gentle M. Stap. haue me commended to those your Papisticall Catholikes that ye say say so and aske them agayne if all be Gospell that they do say or no. Tushe man will M Stap. replie will ye not beléeue the Catholikes Why then sixtly and Laste of all I saye and M. Feck vvill also say that euen M. Horne him selfe in this his aunsvvere retreateth so farre back from his assertion of supreme gouernement in all causes spirituall and temporall vvhiche is the state and keye of the vvhole question that he plucketh from the Prince the chiefe and principall matters and causes ecclesiasticall as vve shall hereafter playnely shevve by his ovvne vvordes This geare goeth harde indéede The B. is nowe driuen to asore straight But syr might a man be so bolde to aske your mastership what are you and M. Feck are ye not Catholikes that when ye haue saide the catholikes say so ye come rushing in say Last of all I say and M. Feck vvill also say you make vs doubte least ye be no Catholikes and withall to suspect when ye cal your selfe and your client M. Feck to witnesse some partialitie in your sayings least the sole will holde with the shoe and that as two false witnesses came in agaynst our sauiour Christ with I say so and he vvill say so also so woulde you compact togither to slander the B. herein with I say so and M. Feck vvil say so also But by both your leaues may I be so bolde as to set your I say so and his I say so also asyde and desire ye to proue your so saying Why say you doubt ye of that we shall here after plainly shevve it by hys owne vvordes These are but vvords M. Stap. and ioly promises if ye can shevve it so playnly why shevve ye it not playnly here where ye say it so playnly or else haue shevved at the least where the B. doth thus which till ye shall playnely shewe this your â–ª bolde and playne saying may be suspected for a playne lye But M. Stap. shaking of the further
and therfore good reason that yours giue place to his senior the popish later base born religion of your Romish church to thâ—… first most auncient true religion of that Alpha Omega Iesus Christ himself Master Stap. hauing now set vp these two false markes like to one being out of his way that after he is once ouer his shooes in the myre careth not howe he benâ—…yre himselfe but running deeper through thicke and thinne cryeth this is the way to haue other to followe him so rusheth on master Stapleton still further from the issue and yet taketh euerye thing in his way to bée hys marke and directorie Setting vp the perticuler factes of those Princes that chalenge and take vppon them this supreme gouernement that the selfe same factes must be founde in the ensamples of the olde testament or else hée sayth the Bishop strayeth from the marke VVhat euidence haue ye brought forth sayth he to shew that in the olde lawe anye King exacted of the Clergie In verbo Sacerdotiâ—… that they shoulde make none Ecclesiasticall lawe without his consent as King Henrie did of the clergie of Englande Is this the marke master Stap. betwene the Bishop and master Feckenham to proue in their supreme gouerments euerye selfe same perticuler fact yea the circumstances about or concerning the fact to be all one in them that clayme this gouernment nowe and those that claymed it then since bothe the states the times yea all the ceremonies of religion of the Iewes then and ours nowe are nothing like and trow ye then the princes perticuler doings must be like and euen the same and euidence must be giuen out of the one for euery fact of the other or else their supreme authorities be not alike The issue betweene them is not so straight laced but requireth onely any such gouernment some such gouernment yea he it al suche gouernment to I meane not all suche actions in the gouernment but the supreme directing gouernance authoritie or powre are proued both alike in either princes estate so well ouer eccl. persons in all their functions then or now as ouer the temporall in theirs For by this rule wheras that most famous prince king Henry the eight did sweare also to his obedience all his temporall subiects in ciuill causes as other Princes likewise haue done and do it would be harde to alleâ—…ge an euidence thereof out of the old Testament and yet their supreme gouernments therin were not therefore vnlike As for the ministring of the othe is but a circumstance to confirme the matter and not the matter itselfe And if king Henry were by the obstinate and craftie malice of his popishe clergiâ—… then constrayned for his more assurance to take an othe or promise of them on the honestie of their priesthoode which God wâ—…t was but a small holde as it went then in the moste of them and that no king of those ancient yeres mentioned in the olde testament béeing not moued by the wickednesse or mistrust of his clergy tooke the like othe or promise of their priestes honestie or fayth of their priesthoodâ—… then what is this to or from the matter why their supreme authorities shoulde not be alike in bothe Do not you also say for your side that the highe Priest had suche supreme gouernment then as your Pope â—…othe chalenge now ouâ—…r all eccl. causes â—…nd dothe â—…ot your Pope nowe exacte of all his clergie in verbo â—…acerdotij by the worde of their priesthoode that they shall make no eccl. law without his consent May we not then returne your owne words on your selfe VVhat euidence can you bring foorth to shew that in the olde lawe any highe Priest exacted this of the clergie vnder him And if ye can not as ye can not dothe not then this your wyle reason and newe marke ouerturne the false clayme that your Pope claymeth of such supreme gouernment now as the high Priest had then But his clayme is false his gouernment nothing like For the high priest then tooke not vpon him to make eccl. lawes as doth now your Pope but only obserued such eccl. lawes as God had made to his hande till time of the Pharisies corruption who not content with Gods lawes had deuised besides many fond lawes of their own inuentions when there wanted amoÌ„g them this kingly authoritie To the which so long as it continued the high priest al other obeyed receyuing and obseruing such eccl. constitutions as their godly princes made vnto them So did Aaron first receiue the eccl. coÌ„stitutions of Moses So after him did alâ—…re residue admit the eccl. constitutions of Dauid the rest of the foresaid princes their priests made none of theÌ„ selues without the Princes consent But the princes ordâ—…ined diuers eccl. orders partly with the aduise and consent partly without yea agaynst the wil coÌ„sent of their clergy now then and yet those godly princes exacted of them euen as they were true priests as the stories of Iosaphat and Ezechias mention how they charged their priests euen in that they were the Lords priests which is all one with that you alleage in verbo sacerdotij that they should do suche things as they appoynted them to do And is not this good and authenticall euidence for king Henries doings but that the priests appoynted any suche ordinance without their princes consents will be harde for you to bring the like or any â—…uidence at all for your Popes exacting And if as ye conclude herevpon this exacting to make no eccl. law without his consent be to make the ciuil magistrate the supreme iudge for the final determinatioÌ„ of causes ecclesiasticall then your Pope hauing no such euidence for him by this your marke is no supreme iudge for suche finall determination but it â—…latly proueth agaynst you that the Princes should be the supreme iudges therein And if the exacting of consent importe suche supreme authoritie as héere ye confesse then whereas not onely these ancient kings but also the ancient christian Emperors in the confirming of your Pope exacted that none shoulde be a lawfull Pope to whome they gaue not their consent it argueth that those Emperours were the supreme Iudges for the finall determination of the Popes ecclesiasticall election Which afterwarde when ye come to the handling therof ye renie affirming that although his consent was necessarie to be required yet it argued no suche supreme iudgement in the matter And thus you care not may ye for the time shuffle out an answere howe falsly or how contrary ye counterblast your false The nexte marke is yet further wyde from the issue and more fonde than any of the other for abandoning his Pope and generall Councels VVhat can ye bring foorthe sayth he out of the olde Testament to aide and relieue your doings who haue abandoned not onely the Pope but generall Councels also and that by playne acte of Parliament And
vvere in times past the Leuitical priests yea rather sith the Apostle treating of the Ministers of the nevve Testament conferring them with the olde Leuites sayth that they ministred death and the letter that killed but these minister the spirit which quickneth and righteousnesse and therfore the ministers of the nevve Testament are more vvorthie than the olde Leuites vvhat maner of king shal vve thinke him to bee vvhiche contemning the ministers of the nevve Testamente calleth himselfe the supreme head of his Christian kingdome and that immediatly vnder Christ This comparison Maister Saunders of the ministers of the olde and nevve Testament rightly vnderstood wée acknowledge The nevve is more vvorthy than the olde but the vvorthinesse and glory of the nevv ministration that saint Paule speakes on is spirituall and not outvvard glory For although the ministers of the olde Testament had outwarde glory and some of them by especiall calling had the visible supreme and ciuill gouernement although seldome yet the ministers of the nue testament are by Christ as your owne selfe haue confessed flatly forbidden it Vos autem non sic but you shall not be so And therefore where ye woulde haue them of no lesse dignitie meaning of outvvard glory and gouernment or else your example holdes not they are of farre lesse dignitie therein notwithstanding in a spirituall and invvarde glory they are againe of a farre greater dignitie than the olde Which spirituall dignitie if any King shoulde contemne you might then well demaunde vvhat maner of king he were and we woulde answere you hée were a wicked King but as these are two distinct dignities the spirituall dignitie of the minister and the visible supremacie of the King so may they be and are with vs well and godly vsed both of them Where both the Prince hath the outward dignitie of supreme head or gouernour vnder Christ and yet the ministers spirituall dignitie is not onely no whit contemned but hath his honor yelded due vnto him And therefore we denie not that which followeth For if he acknowledge not the Ministers of Christe ouer him he can not be blessed of them VVherevpon neither can he be pertaker of the sanctifying spirite whose ministers they are We graunt Maister Saunders that the Prince humbly receiueth their blessing and is partaker of the holy spirite of God whose ministers they are in these actions Wherein the Prince acknowledgeth them to represent God and is vnder them But what hindreth this that in other respectes they againe are vnder him and he their supreme gouernour but Maister Saunders procéedeth saying Dauid cryeth and nowe ye kings vnderstande and be ye learned ye that iudge the earth apprehend discipline least the Lorde waxe wroth and ye perishe oute of the right waye But if kings must be learned then so farre forth they must be vnder For he that is learned is learned of some maister and is scholler to him of whome he is learned the disciple is not aboue his maister but in that thing that he learneth of his maister of necessitie he is inferior That kings ought to be learned we gladly confesse and are glad that you confesse it althoughe againste your wylls for ye would rather haue them altogither vnlearned whom ye haue so long detained in blindnesse But why woulde ye haue them nowe learned forsothe bicause you would onely be their maisters and so they shoulde be still your vnderlings not onely in learning suche ill lessons as you woulde teache them but vnder pretence of teachers to be their gouernours too True it is in that the teacher teacheth he is aboue and in that the learner learneth he is vnder â—…ut the teacher is not aboue nor the learner vnder in other things Thoughe Moyses learned of Iethro yet in gouernement Moyses was aboue him Thoughe Dauid learned of Nathan yet in gouernement he was aboue him Thoughe Ozias learned of Iudith yet in gouernement he was aboue hir And so all princes that are taughte of their schole maisters their scholemaister maye be the better in learning but he is the worser in authoritie And thoughe he be the maister in knowledge yet he makes euen his knowledge wherby he is maister to serue the Prince also Yea although the Prince be not his maister in learning yet in all causes of learning the Prince hath a generall supreme gouernement to sée by his lawes euery kinde of learning maintayned in his order to forbid naughtie artes to be learned to appoint such suche an order methode to be taught or learned as learned men enforme him is good and easie to the attaining of learning to appaynt scholes and learned scholemaisters for learning and to giue them lawes statutes and stipendes for the maintenance of learning all this may the Prince doe by his supreme authoritie ouer all learned persons and in all causes of learning althoughe he himselfe be altogether vnlearned and can not one letter on the booke Althoughe woulde to God all Princes were learned not as the Papistes woulde haue them but as Dauid was and exhorteth all Princes to bée And thus as thys sentence makes nothing in the worlde for him so hys example thereon makes verye muche againste him But for all thys argumente be thus simple he wyll loâ—…de vs with further proues saying Sithe therefore it is sayde to the Apostles Go teache ye all nations and sith vnder the names of nations the kings of them are comprehended and Byshops and Priests haue succeeded the Apostles in the office of teaching truely in the offyce of teachyng the Byshoppe is greater than his king so farre is it off that the king can be the Bishops hed in all things causes VVhich title notwithstanding is not onely of these men giuen to a king but also by publique decree of late in Englande giuâ—…n vnto a Queene To reason froÌ„ teaching to gouerning is no good teaching M. SauÌ„ders If ye teach this doctrine theÌ„ your Pope should haue little gouernment for God wot he teacheth little being often times vnlearned and alwayes to proud to teache If ye say he teacheth by others so caÌ„ a prince too And though he could himselfe teache and would also teach the truth and not suppresse it yet sith ye say he succedes the Apostles but in the office of teaching he is no furder superior than he teacheth by your owne reckoning Neither would this superioritie be denyed him of any that he ought to teache if he in dâ—…de succeded the Apostles But if the succession of the Apostles consist in teaching as here ye confesse then hath not the Pope to crake muche of succeeding Peter and Paule that teacheth not as Peter and Paule did as woulde to God he did and all priests or Bishops else Whiche if they did and taught truely this woulde augment and not diminishe the Princes supreme authoritie yea and the Quéenes too Maister Saunders for in gouernement before ye
of teÌ„poral kingâ—… None is so simple to moue such a fond obiectioÌ„ But the obiection is whether the one be coincident to the other Whether a Bishop to whoÌ„ properly by his Bishoply office 〈◊〉 kingdome belongeth not may take vpon him the gouernment of a kingdome that properly by his kingly office beloÌ„geth to a king This iâ—… the question And you say properly he can not I say muche 〈◊〉 vnproperly But properly or vnproperly Christ hath cleaâ—… debarred it Vos autem non 〈◊〉 But you shall not do so These words strike dead master Sand â–ª therfore your vnproper distinctioÌ„ may go pike him But say you when they subiected them to the Christian fayth the kings promised no longer to raygne the people promised to obey no power further than the christian fayth wil suffer therefore if the kings power or the peoples obedience swarue from this promise â–ª the king may be deposed and the people can choose no otherâ—… â—…ll good promises so 〈◊〉 as we may are to be kept inâ—…iolate master Saunders especially the promise made to Christ to kéepe his fayth and religion incorrupted And would to God all men did kéepe it chiefly the Popishe Byshops that haue in so many poyntes swarued from the fayth and corrupted Christes religion yet haue made their promise to keepe it so well as others And if they shoulde be deposed for breaking their promise your Pope should be deposed first to begin withal and all his Prelates Priestes should followe And althoughe it were to be wyshed they were in déede all deposed and those onely that repent them admitted and reformed to the true ministerie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet can not the like be wished for in Princes that they likewise breaking their promises shoulde be deposed by their Bishops For althoughe we haue in Gods worde an euident example for the Prince to depose the Bishoppe vpon his demerites as Salomon deposed Abiathar yet haue we not the like example for the Bishop to depose the Prince For in the authoritie of deposing the Prince is higher than the Bishop Although it is not to be wished the Princes should attempt without great and euident proofe to depose any As for the Bishop to take vpon him to depose his Prince béeing his sworne subiecte is bothe agaynst his owne fayth and homageâ—… and further than his authoritie reacheth The Bishops and Priests had great iniurie offred them of king Saule yet they neuer cursed him nor attempted to depose him No Dauid although he were him selfe also the Lords anoynted would neuer oppugne Saule or rebel agaynst him but only stode at his defence and when he had Saule in his daunger he would neither kill him nor take him nor depose him but let him go and committed his quarell to the Lorde bicause Saule was not onely likewise the Lordes annoynted but then in lawfull possession of the crowne And therefoâ—…e Dauid woulde neuer take it from him althoughe he had good title to it Muche lesse may the Bishops that haue no title to it attempte to pull downe their Prince They may yea they oughte to exhorte their Prince hauing broken his promise and rebukâ—… him and lay before him the terrible threates of God they may pray for him â–ª but they can not lay handes vpon him nor curse him nor reuile him nor take armes agaynst him nor inâ—…ite other to rebellion to forsake him and to set vpon him beeing their Liege and Soueraigne I am not ignoraunt that Princes haue bene deposed of their subiects in diuers couÌ„treys and diuers times in Englande And the like casualtie may chaunce in euery age and kingdome vnto princes But for those things by what title they were done God knoweth I will not descant nowe but this I affirme in generall that in respect of the people those things were more defâ—…cto than de â—…ure â–ª although in respecte of Gods iustice or of the Princes chastisement that â—…ad deserued before God so muche and more it was de â—…ure too But the subiects can neuer iustifie such deedes to be done howe euer they be borne out when they be done nor such extraordinary deedes past may be drawne to ordinarie examples of deedes to come but be spectacles for princes in beholding suche tragedies past to learne for the present to â—…umble them selues and to leuell their life to come the better And althâ—…gh many of these deposings of princes haue â—…ot come so 〈◊〉 by the vâ—…ce of their vnnatural subiects as by the practises of the Popish bishops as the ensamples of king Iohn in Englande of Childerike in Fraunce the Henries and other in Germanie and in other countreys do testifie yet were these dealings of thâ—…se Bishops not allowable but detestable yeâ—… though it were graunted that those princeâ—… haâ—… deserued them brokeÌ„ their faith and promise â–ª Which if it were a good faith promise was no doubt an euill breacâ—…e of it anâ—… God will take the vengeance of it it belongeth not is the people nor to the Bishops Vengeance is mine sayth God and I will render it He sayth not my Bishops shall but I will render it Yea but saytâ—… M. 〈◊〉 the Prince himselfe hathe made a promise to raigne no longer than the fayth and religion of Christ alloweth I aunswere if he maâ—… this prâ—…yse it is a good promyse and he is bouâ—… in conscience to stand therâ—… But what if â—…e wickedly breake his promise shall the Bishope rebell â–ª and breake their promise too is there no remedie but 〈◊〉 pellere to driue out one mischiefe with another â–ª Nay saith S. Paule â–ª Non faciamus malum vt inde eueniatbâ—…nuÌ„ Let vs not do euill that good may come of iâ—… â–ª Let vs notâ—…bell against the Prince that the Prince may be reformed Quorum damnatio iusta est If the Bishops do so they heape Iâ—…st damnation vpoÌ„ themselues Were the Prince in déede such a one as the Bishops pretend if it be not rather their malicious pretence as God hath giuen them no such violent meanes to reforme him which were to make him rather worse than better and to bring all in a broyle and themselues besides their sin in daunger â–ª so God hath giuen theÌ„ another meane if they could see it of preaching his word vnto the Prince which is another maner of sword and more fitte for them to fight withall than to pull the temporall sworde oute of the Princes hands In dede so did Cardinall Columne when the Pope said he woulde pull of his Cardinals hatte he soul the Pope word if he pulled off his Cardinals hatto he would put on a helmet and pull downe his triple Crowne These Prelates haue little skill of the spirituall swâ—…rde although they crake of it and of S. Petâ—…rs keyes but they neither know how to vse them nor what they be that thinke they consist in deposing Princes and fighting against them But M.
the sonnes of strangers shall build vp thy walles Kings shall serue thee And to this he addeth the other sentence in the same Chap. And the sonnes of them that afflicted thee shall come to thee humbly and shall bowe themselues euen to the plantes of thy feete eueÌ„ all they that dispised thee and call thee the citie of the Lorde Sion of the holy Israell Had you set the sentence downe thus farre you had marred al Maister Saunders â–ª For then you had bewrayed your wresting of this vnto the Bishops And had you set downe all the chapter you had shewed suche inconueniences in vnderstanding this glory of the Church and seruice of Princes in the literall sense and after a worldly fashion that you must néedes haue confessed all these things to haue other spirituall meanings Which the Iewes not marking in these and such like prophecies of the kingdome of the Messias and the glory of Sion but taking the same in the bare sense of the words as you doe were so sotted on a worldly glory kingdome that they quite dispised the pouertie of Christ and to this day dispise it looking for a Messias that as they sansie shall raigne in al worldly pompe and subdue all kingdomes and people to him and therefore they scrape vp money so fast to helpe him And so you Papists in these prophecies of the kingdom of Christ and the glory of his Church haue as grosse vnderstanding as the Iewes and dispising the simplicitie of the Gospell nor beholdyng the spirituall ornamentes of the spouse of Christ thinke the worship of God lyeth in suche outwarde glory And hearing of obedience seruice of Kings to Christ and to his Church thinke it consistes in this that Kings muste sweare to you to renounce their kingdomes and holde them of the Pope and be obedient to him and he his Prelats must florishe in all worldly pompe and ryches Is not this the Iewes error vp and downe howbeit in oppressing of Kings you are worse than the Iewes and in seâ—…ing 〈◊〉 honor here verie CerinthiaÌ„s and shall neuer haue it else where excepte you forsake your errors Your third sentence Luk. 10. he that dispiseth you dispiseth me as it maketh nothing for you being nothing suche as those were whoÌ„ Christ did sende so being vnderstood of those that are in deede sent of Christe is nothing to this purpose We graunt that no godly ministers ought to be dispised And if they be Christ their sender is dispised But as they ought not in their calling to be dispised of the Prince so no more ought the Prince to be dispised of them much lesse to be troden vnder their féete and their kingdomes to be taken from them as your Popes haue vsed them and you woulde haue theÌ„ here be spoiled Wherby it appéereth that you are not such as Christ doth sende but are of Sathans sending to bréede contempts seditioÌ„s treasons against Princes to maintain your pride and carnall pleasures of whome Saint Iude did prophecie that defiling your fleshe you despise authoritie râ—…yle on the Maiestie of your Soueraignes Your fourth sentence Mat. 16. of Christ saying to Peter Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke will I build my Churche and the gates of hell shall not preuaile againste it is altogether besides the matter It is your chiefe place wrested for your Popes vsurpatioÌ„ but I sée not how it is brought in here against the Princes authoritie except you will make a kings estate to be the gates of hell But as the Princes estate is the ordinaunce of God so I rather thinke the attempte to depose the Prince to be if not the gates of hell â–ª yet one of the readiest wayes to hell as we haue example of Core Dathan and Abiron that went not by the gate nor by the posterne but were swallowed vp and toombled in quicke to hell And although the rebellious Papists go not downe that wayes yet shall they be sure to come to hell and I thinke rebellion be one of the broadest gates that hell hath for Papists on a plompe to enter Nowe that M. Samders hath as he thinketh with thesâ—… texts confirmed the Bishops refusall of Baptising the king he will admitte the Bishop will Baptise him and see what inconuenience shall ensue For saith he if the Bishop will baptise him whom he heareth by name saying that he will not submit his Diademe to Christ or that is all one he not will make his kingdom subiect to the ministers of Christ euen in the cause of faith where is that obedience of faith which the Apostles were sent to procure in all nations is it meete that he which denounceth that he will not want his empire for no fault at all should notwithstanding be armed with the name of a Christian and with the sacramentes of Christ to lay the greater ambushments against his Church for who doubteth that there is greater daunger of the domesticall than of the foraigne enemie Surely M. Saunders I am of your opinioÌ„ in this last senteÌ„ce Out of doubt there is greater dauÌ„ger of the domesticall than of the foraigne enimie We sée the apparaÌ„t experience in your Pope that is so much the more perilous enimie to the ChristiaÌ„ faith as he preteÌ„deth to be the Uicar of Christ the seruant of the seruaÌ„ts of God a father of fathers in Christes Church for so his name Papa signifieth is in dede a robber of Christs glory a hider of Christs Gospell a setter vp of his owne decrees a spoyler of all kings and kingdomes a begniler of the people vnder a shew of holinesse an Angel of darknesse shyning like an Angell of light a rauening wolfe in a shéepes clothing a child of perdition himself and pretending to saue other from perdition the man of sin calling himself a god There is greater dauÌ„ger of such a puppet of the deuill thus disguised like a God than is of the heathen thaÌ„ is of the Iewes than is of Mahomet than is of the greate Turke than is of the Deuill hymselfe And the like greater daunger is of all dissemblyng Papistes in the Courtes and Realmes of protestant Princes than is of open Papists apparant enemies I beseech God they may be loked vnto remoued froÌ„ such places that there may be lesse danger of theÌ„ As for this Prince and Byshop that M. Saunders maketh his presupposals vpon there is farre greater daunger to the Church of God in this Byshop than in this Prince For first the Prince not of compulsion but of his owne voluntarie not of crafte or malice or any other sinister affection but of good hearte and méere deuotion for so king Lucius and Clodoueus did commeth to the Byshop to be baptized and humbly offereth to acknowledge the faithe of Christe What danger is here towarde the Church of Christ by this good Princes offer or not rather gret benefite to the Church
of Christe to haue so mightie a Realme as Englande or Fraunce to become Christian by this offer why is not this offer taken for sooth the B. refuseth it Is not here a great iniurie offered to Christs Church by this B but whie doth the B. thus bycause the Prince will not promise obedience to the Prelates and to renounce his kingdome if he swarue from his obedience to them Is this a sufficient cause for want of obedience to the Prieste to defeate Chryste of his obedience Nay say you he made an exception that he vvoulde not submit his Diademe to Christ. By your leaue M. Saunders there you say not true Loke on your own presupposall once again yea on the words you made the Prince to speake whiche althoughe they were of your owne deuising for you neuer I suppose heard or read of Prince desirous to be baptized that spake on that fashion you do but tell the Princes tale to your aduantage yet finde you no such wordes in the wordes that you speake for him yea he speaketh the contrarie in offering to acknowledge the faith of Christ. But say you he would not submit his Diademe make his kingdome subiecte in the cause of faithe to the Ministers of Christ and that is all one vvyth denying to submit his Diademe to Christ. Yea Master Sanders were it admitted ye were ministers of Christ is Christ you al one the submissioÌ„ to Christ to his ministers al one Backare M. Saâ—… there is a great difference And yet Chryst requireth no submission of Diademes or subiection of kingdoms in such sort vnto him that he wold haue kings resigne them vp to him and he woulde take them no he neuer vsed that practise He might haue had such kingdomes if he had list but he refused them as your selfe before haue confessed Althoughe your Pope will haue kings resigne their kingdomes vnto him and he will take them and ruffle in greater pompe than any king vseth to doe Whiche argueth playnely that he is not Christes minister And therefore the king hardyly may refuse his vnlawfull demaunde that he woulde in the name of Christ extort as Christes officer which his master Christe both refused himselfe and forbad in his ministers And therefore the Prince dothe Chryste no iniurie bycause he will not bring his kingdome thrall to a false Prieste pretending to be Christes Minister béeing indéede the Minister of the tempter that offereth worldly kingdomes But say you hee muste make his kingdome subiecte to them in the cause of faith As though the cause of faith were hindered if the King made not his kingdome subiecte to the Priestes where as this were the reddiest way bothe to destroye the kingdome and the faith No Master Saunders the faithe of Chryste was neuer more sincere than when the Ministers of Chryst were obedient subiectes to their kings And the cause of faythe was neuer more weakened and corrupted than sithe Priestes haue wrong themselues out of their kings subiections and that the Popes haue made the Kings sweare obedience vnto them But Maister Saunders whines at this crying out vvhere is the obedience of faith that Christ sent his Apostles to procure in all the vvorlde You do well Master Saunders to aske vvhere it is for surely it is not with you nor in all your Popishe kingdome except here and there lurking and dare not shewe hir head for feare your Popishe Inquisitors woulde gette hir by the polle The obedience of fayth was frée when Priests were subiectes and since Priestes became Princes they haue taken hir captiue and exiled hir and done all that they coulde to haue killed hir But she is escaped your hands and requicouereth that libertie that the Apostles procured in all nations for hir And she doth so much the better bicause she rereth not worldly subiection of Princes but letteth Princes kéepe the estate of their kingdomes and requireth not onely obedience to hir in a more spirituall submission Whiche the more Princes yelde vnto hir they bring not their kindomes into more slauerie but into more libertie renowne and honour So that I truste shortely they will bring the Pope and his proude Prelates to their olde obedience againe Whie saye you this is to arme Princes agaynste the Church Nay Master Saunders it is rather to strengthen the Church to let Princes haue that armor that is due vnto them What say you to lette them doe vvhat they vvill and for nothing they shall doe to saye they vvill not leaue their Empire No bodie Master Saunders giueth Princes authoritie to do what they will. The authoritie that is giuen them is onely to doe good Their vvill must not be what they will but what Lawe vvill It is not with them as it is wyth your Pope Sic volo sic Iubeo stet pro ratione voluntas Thus I vvill and thus I commaunde my vvyll shall stande in steade of reason The Law is not wyth them in scrinio pectoris in the cofer of the brest as your Pope sayth it is in his I graunt there are Princes that doe thus but that is not their dutie Neither do Princes make a profession as you say that for nothing they will giue ouer their authoritie nor it is required of them nor presupposed But their duetie in their officâ—… is required and it is presupposed they will continue therein Which if they do not but breake promise shall the subiectes depose them or the Byshops depriue them by whiche rule they may quickly set vpon the Prince for any enormitie in ciuil matters too for he promised to minister iustice to al meÌ„ but he promised to none to giue vp his crowne if he did not Yea though he had made them some suche expresse promise also and brake it yet coulde no Byshop nor any other priuate person attempte to depose him for the breach thereof but commit the vengeance to god But this Prince that here is presupposed offereth inough vnto the Bishop which if he refuse not the Prince but the Byshop endamageth the Church of Christ. Nowe Master Saunders presupposing in this supposall that he hath clearely euicted the case where the Byshop by expresse wordes maketh this condition with the king he will pursue his victorie that he thinketh he hath gotten and proue that the king hath promised and is bounde euen as muche where the Byshoppe at his baptisme saithe no suche wordes vnto him But if so be saith he all men vvill confesse that no Byshop can giue baptisme vvithout great sinne to that king vvhom he seeth so proude then truely although the Byshop by negligence or forgetfulnesse shall say nothing hereof vnto the king notvvithstanding suche is the obedience that the king himselfe giueth vnto the Gospell of Christe vvhen he maketh himselfe a member of him and desireth of him to be saued that vvill hee nill hee this promise is contained in that facte that he shall minister vnto Christ and to the