together with their answers layes them downe in his 2. book Of the first Argument I have spoken in another place The 2. is that if Christs ministeriall power be by succession to the Pope Bishops or Praesbytery then the Ministery of Rome is a true Ministery Mr Bern answer is that he meanes true succession which is both personall and hath with it a true office true doctrine true sacraments and prayer about which Christs true ministers are exercised but for the Romish Ministery it is idolatry and superstition and the men appointed there to ordeyned sacrifising Preists This answer of yours Mr B. puts me in mind of a practise of children who when they have a long while busyed themselves in drawing the best formes and figures they can in dust and ashes do at the last with one dash of their hand deface all vndo what they haue formerly done And that this childish dealing you use no reader that considers the quaestion in hand can be ignorant of The quaestion then between him me is not of such a succession personall as hath joyned with it successiō in a true office true doctrine true sacraments prayer wherin the minister is in any measure faithfully exercised but generally whether succession of persons be of such absolute necessity as that no minister can in any case be made but by a minister more specially whither the first ministers of the reformed Ch or of such as come out of the confusiō of Antichrist must of necessity be ordeyned by the Pope his Bishops or minister by vertue of their ordinatiō so received And that this succession by from the Romish ministery is that Mr Ber pleads for his writings manifest as first that as in all the Apostles time the Ministery was by succession ministers as it were begetting Ministers by ordination so after their tyme the like succession hath been kept frō tyme to tyme Bishop after Bishop and Ministers ordeyned by them which the Catalogue of thē stories of tymes on which we must rely where the script cease to make further relation do witnesse for the continuation of which succession to the worlds end he alledgeth Math. 28. 20. odiously perverting to the Pope and his shavelings the promise which Christ there made to be with his Apostles other faithfull ministers teaching the things which he had commanded and dispensing his other ordinances accordingly Answerable vnto which is his other saying in which his termes and meaning do well suit that Church-men ever ordeyned Ministers not the lay people To this also let his inferēce be added in another place pag. 311. that if we receive and hold our baptism from Rome why not our ordination also And in his former book most clearly condemning our Ministers for being made by such as are no Ministers contrary to the constant practise of the Church of God from the dayes of Adam hitherto And agayn that this custome of ordeyning Ministers did continue in the times following the Apostles tymes as before it had done in all the Churches of Christendom as ecclesiasticall wryters do make mention and so through pure impure Churches and that God in the last reformation of his Church would not break this order but choose men who were Bishops ordeyned even in the Popish Church so that they might ordeyn fit persons afterwards And this he tels the Reader he speaks of the Church of England as in deed he may wel for other Ch departed frō Rome would be loath to joyn in his plea. And lastly he chargeth vs with great praesumption for daring to break this order of God continued five thowsand and six hundred years Novv what can be more vayne The very poynt which MR. BERNARD is to prove and from which he brings his historicall narration from Adam to this day is that God hath continued the course of succession in the Romish Ministery and that from and by it successively the Ministery in England hath been and is at this day continued And yet in his answer to Mr Smyth he is driven to affirm that he hath no referēce at all to the Romish Ministery which he accounts Idolatry and superstition but meanes such a personal succession as hath ioyned with it a true office true doctrine and the like He will haue succession continued from the dayes of Adam hitherto and this to haue been the order of God for five thowsand and six hundred yeres and that he chose Bishops ordeyned in the Popish Church to ordeyn fit persons in the Church of England and yet Mr Smith is to know he speaks not at all of the succession in the Romish Ministery which is idolatry and superstition Now that the more simple reader may not loose himself in this mans maze and that he may the better know the state of the quaestion and judge of it I will here interpose some few thinges touching succession and ordination accordingly First then wee acknowledge that in the right and orderly state of things no Ministers are to be ordeyned but by Ministers the latter by the former in the Churches where they are and over which the holy Ghost hath set them And so the Apostles being generall and extraordinary men vnto whom the Evangelists also were joyned for assistance to water where they planted and to finish the works by them begun as they had the care of all the Churches committed vnto them and were charged with them so were they also to ordeyn the Elders and Bishops in them and the people bound to wayt theyr comming for that purpose as Mr Ber. truly affirmeth as were also these Bishops or Elders to ordeyn others in the Churches over which they were set so others after them in the order appoynted by Christ in his Apostles with whō also he promised to be alwayes till the worlds end in this and the like their holy ministrations But is the consequence good that bycause the Apostles and Evangelists were to ordeyn Elders in the Churches by Cōmission from Christ and that the people converted from Indaism or Paganism were to wayt till they came to ordeyn them theyr ministers therefore the Pope and Prelates vnder him have cōmission from Christ to ordeyn his priests and that the people converted from Antichristianism are to wayt 〈◊〉 they come to ordeyn them their Ministers or till they send them such as they have alwayes in store ordeyned to their hands or that bycause the Apostles and Evangelists had Christs promise to be with them alwayes that therefore the Pope Cardinalls Lord Bishops and Lord Suffragans have interest in the same promise It might asvvell be concluded that as the Lords people were bound to obey and submit vnto the former in their times so are they now to submit vnto and obey the Pope and his vnderlings And yet is this the very mark Mr Bernard aymes at in his long drawn historicall narration this is the force of his argument and his
ministeriall power from the Cardinals cannot give it to them and so to the rest of the Clergy in Rome and England neyther can it descend from Christ through the Apostles and so through him to the other inferiour ministers but as in a chayn if the highest link be broken the rest which hang vpon it must needs fall So if there be a breach of this chayn of succession from the Apostles to the ministery of Rome and of England which descends of it lineally in the higest link the Pope all the rest of the chayn that hangs vpon it except it be otherwise vpheld must needs fall flat vpon the ground It is true which Mr Ber answers that election and succession by ordination may stand together in the ministery but in this case it cannot except the Pope should by the election of the Cardinalls or others ordeyn his succession whilest himselfe survived Now in this last answer Mr B challengeth his adversary to be wilde in wandering and to have lost his quaestion in concluding that the doctrine of succession is a false doctrine where he should prove that Christs power is not given to the principall members But this challenge is both vnjust vnadvised Vnjust bycause succession from the popish Church and Clergy is made by M Ber in his former book the foundation of the ministery of England and so of the Church the Church by his affirmation being made by the ministers and the Ministers by such Bishops as were ordeyned in the popish Church Vnadvised bycause these two poynts do depend ech vpon other necessarily For if Christs power be tyed to the officers whether principall or inferiour then must it come to the ministery and Church of England by succession if it come not by succession from or by the Pope and his Clergy then must it come by the same successioÌ„ of fayth doctrine vnto the children of Abraham two or three or more faithfull persons joyned together in the covenant and fellowship of the gospel And for the quaestion in Mr Bernards own words remitting the Reader to such places as prove that a company of faythfull people in the covenant of the gospell though without officers are a visible Church that they haue immediate right to the holy things of God and that the keyes for bynding and loosing were given to Peters confession I will adde onely one Argument and so proceed It hath been sundry tymes observed and proved by the scriptures that the officers of the Church are the servants of the Ch and their office a service of the Lord and of his Church Wherevpon it followeth necessarily that what power the officers have the body of the Church hath first and before them the very light of nature coÌ„mon sense teaching it that what power or authority soever the the servants of any body or persons have the body or persons whose servants they are must have it first and they by theÌ„ And for this purpose let it be further observed that no power at all came vnto the Church of the Iewes by the Levites not the vse of the sacrament of circumcision no nor of the very sacrifices which were offered by the first born in the family and that even after the peoples comming out of Egypt vnder the hand of Moses till Levi was called to the Preisthood Ex. 13. 2. 24. â— I proceed If the Ministery of the reformed Churches must be by succession or ordination by Popish Bishops then must the same office of Ministery be continued from the one Church to the other as indeed it was withall the Ministers of the Church of England at the first who without any new eyther calling or ordination which depends vpon it continued their office and place formerly received there being onely a reformation of some of the grossest evills like the healing of Iobs soars as Mr B. speaketh as the office of Iustice-ship or the like in the common wealth may be continued the same in the same persons individually though by edict of Parliament or other superiour power there be a surceasing of some mayn act of it Further to ty the Ministery thus to succession is to ty the Lords sheep to submit to no other sheepheards but such as the wolves haue appointed And if a company of Gods people in Rome or Spayn should come out of Babylon and no consecrated Preist amongst them they must by this doctrine enjoy no Ministers but such as the Romish wolves will ordeyn do according to their Popish prophane order To these things I might also adde that look what power any of the Popes Clergy receive from him the same he takes from them deprives them of where they withdrew their obedience or separate from that Church as also that the ordinations in Rome by their own Canons are very nulliâ—yes and many the the like exceptions pleaded by learned protestants against the Romish preisthood and this Romish doctrine of succession but that which hath been spoken is sufficient in the generall and I hasten to the third and last meanes of the three by which Gods people after Antichrists defection are to injoy the ministery and other of Christs ordinances And for our better proceeding herein I will first consider what ordination is and 2. how far the brethren may goe by the scriptures and the necessary consequences drawn from them in this and the like cases in the first planting of Churches or in the reducing of them into order in or after some generall confusion The Prelates and those which levell by their lyne do highly advance ordination and far above the administration of the word sacraments and prayer making it and the power of excommunication the two incoÌ„municable prerogatives of a Bishop in their vnderstanding above an ordinary minister But surely herein these cheif ministers do not succeed the cheif ministers the Apostles except as darknes succeeds light and Antichrists confusion Christs order Where the Apostles were sent out by Christ there was no mention of ordination their charge was to go teach all nations and baptize them and that the Apostles accounted preaching their principall work and after it baptism prayer the scriptures manifest And if ordination had been in those dayes so pryme a work surely Paul would rather haue tarryed in Crete himself to have ordeyned Elders there and haue sent Titus an inferiour officer about that inferiour work of preaching then haue gone himself about that leaving Titus for the other But bycause Mr Bernard with whom I deal when he writes most advisedly preferrs preaching to the first place and the administration of the sacraments and prayer to the next passing by ordination as not worthy the naming amongst these principall works I wil therefore leave it to be honoured by them whom it most honoureth and for whose ease and profit it best serveth and will consider in what place he setteth it He then pleading that as well the ordination as the
over Gods heritage as you would make them controuling all but to be controuled by none much lesse essentiall vnto the Church as though it could not be without them least of all the Church it self as you and others expound Math. 18 But we hold the Eldership as other ordinances given vnto the Church for her service and so the Elders or officers the servants and ministers of the Church the wife vnder Christ her husband aâ— the scriptures expresly affirm Of which more hereafter And where further you advise the reader to take from the Iay other birds feathers that is as you expound your self to set vs before him as we differ from all other Churches Therein you make a most inconsiderate and vnreasonable motion If a man should set the Church of England before his eyes as it differeth but from the reformed Churches it would be no very beautiful bird Yea what could it in that colour afforde but Egyptian bondage Babylonish confusion carnal pomp and a company of Iewish Heathenish and Popish ceremonies Whatsoever truth is in the world it is from God and from him we have it by what hand soever it be reached vnto vs Came the word of God unto you onely vnto it we have good right as the Israel of God unto whom he hath committed his oracles Rom. 3. 2. Towards the end of the Preface you do render two reasons vpon which you do adventure to deal against vs as you do the one coÌ„fidence in your cause the other the spirituall injury which some of late have done you in taking away part of the seale of the Ministery Touching the first as it is to vs that know you wel no new thing to see you confident in all enterprises so doth it much behoove you to consider how long and by what meanes you have been possessed of this your confident perswasion I could name the person of good credite and note to whom vpon occasion you confessed and that since you spake the same things which here you write as confidently as now you write them that you had much a doe to keep a good conscience in dealing against this cause as you did But a speach of your own vttered to my self ever to be remeÌ„bred with fear and trembling can not I forget when after the conference passing betwixt Mr H. and me you vttered these wordes Wel I wil returne home preach as I have done and I must say as Naaman did the Lord be merciful unto me in this thing and therevpon you further promised with out any provocation by me or any other that you would never deale against this cause nor with-hold any froÌ„it though the very next Lords day or next but one you taught publikliâ— against it and so broke your vâ—w the Lord graunt not you conscience And for the seale of your Ministerie deceive not yourself and others if you had not a more authentick seal in your black box to shew for your Ministery at your Bishops visitation then the converting of men to God which is the seal you meane this seale would stand you in as little stead as it doth many others which can shew as â—â—â—re this way as you and yet are put from their Ministerie notwithstanding And wil you charge your Bishops Church representative to deale so trecherously with the Lord as to put downe his Ministers and Officers which have his broad seal to shew for their Office and Ministerie What greater contumely do these vipers these schismaticall Brownists lay vpon your Church then you doe herein The Church of England acknowledgeth no such seale as this is The Bishops ordination and license conformitie vnto their ceremonies subscription to their articles devout singing and saying their service-book is that which will beare a man out though he be far enough eyther from converting or from preaching conversion vnto any And here I desire the reader to observe this one thing with me When the ministers are called in quaestion by the Bishops they alledge vnto them their former subscription conformity in some measure at least their peaceable cariage in their places but when they would iustify their ministerie against vs then their vsuall plea is they haue converted men to God herein acknowledging to let passe their vnsound dealing that we respect the work of Gods grace in any at which they know the Bishops and their substitutes if they should plead the same with them would make a mock for the most part I do most freely acknowledge the singular blessing of God vpon many truthes taught by many in the Land and do and alwayes shal so far honour those persons as the Lord hath honoured them herein But that the simple conversion of sinners yea though the most perfect that ever was wrought should argue a true office of Ministerie the scriptures no where teach neyther shall I ever beleeve without them This scripture 1 Cor. 9. 1. 2. is most frequently alledged for this purpose But as vnsoundly as commonly For if simple conversion should argue an Apostleship then should a common effect argue a proper cause an ordinarie work an extraordinarie office for the conversion of men is a work common to extraordinarie and to ordinarie officers yea to true and false officers yea to such as are in no office at all as hereafter shall appeare And what could be more weakly alledged by Paul to prove himself no ordinarie but an extraordinary officer an Apostle which was the thing he intended then that which is common to ordinary officers with him Might not the Corinthians easily have replyed Nay Paul it followes not that you are an Apostle immediately called and sent by Christ because you haue begotten vs to the Lord have been the instrument of our coÌ„versioÌ„ for ordinary Ministers Pastors Teachers called by men do beget to the Lord as wel as you The bare conversion of the Corinthians then is not the seal Paul speakes of but together with it their establishment into a true visible Church and that with such power and authority Apostolicall as wherewith Paul was furnished by the Lord. Of which more hereafter But the father of these childreÌ„ you say you are which thus vnnaturally fly from you and whereof we so injuriously have deprived you in which respect also you make this your hue cry after vs and them for through the gospel you have begotten them And have you begotten them vnto the faith as Paul did the Corinthians and are you their father as Paul was the father of the Corinthians then it must needs follow that before you preached the gospel vnto them and thereby begot them to the Lord they were in the same estate wherein the Corinthians were before Paul preached vnto them that is unbeleevers and without faith and so were to be reputed And how then true matter of the Church for which you so much contend Besides these your begotten children were baptised long before you saw their faces some twenty
reformed Churches are one whereas the wayes of the Church of England wherein we forsake her do directly and ex diametro crosse and thwart the wayes of the reformed Churches as appeares in these three mayne heads 1. The reformed Churches are gathered of a free people ioyned together by voluntary profession without compulsion of humane lawes On the contrary the Church of England consists of a people forced together violently by the lawes of men into their Provinciall Diocesan and Parishionall Churches as their houses staÌ„d be they never so vnwilling or unfit 2. The reformed Churches do renounce the Ministery of the Church of Engl as she doth theirs not admitting of any by vertue of it to charge of soules as they speak where on the coÌ„trary all the masse-preists made in Queen Maryes dayes which would say their book-service in English were coÌ„tinued Ministers by the same ordination which they received from the Popish Prelates 3. The government by Archbishops Lord Bishops and their substitutes in the Church of England is abhorâ—ed and disclaymed in the reformed Churches as Antichristian as is on the contrary the Presbyterian government in use there by the Church of England refused as Anabaptisticall and seditious Now if Mr B. can at once walk in so many so contrary wayes he had need have as many feet as the Polypus hath Secondly understanding by his Churches way such doctrines ordinances as wherein we oppose it it is an empty boast to affirm that the same is spread into other nations Which are the nations or what may be their names which eyther do reteyn or have received the Prelacy Ministery service book canons and confused coÌ„mixture of all sorts now in vse in the Church of England But Mr B. having as he boasts God Angels and men on his side proceeds in the next place to plead agaynst vs Gods iudgments who seemeth as he sayth from the first beginning to be offended with our course And intending principally in this whol discourse to oppresse vs with contumelyes by them to alienate all mens affections froÌ„ vs he raâ—eth together into this place as into a dung-hil of slaâ—der and misreport whatsoever he thinks may make vs and our cause stink in the nostrels of the reader And so forging some things in his own brayne and enforcing other things true in themselves with most odious aggrevations he presents vs to the view of the world with such personall infirmities and humayn fraylties written in our foreheads as the Lord hath leâ—t vpon the sonnes of men for their humbling And the world wanting spirituall eyes beholding the Church of Christ with the eyes of flesh blood seing it compassed about with so many infirmities falling into so many manyfold tryals and temptations is greatly offended passeth vnrighteous judgement vpon the servants of God and blasphemeth their most holy profession But let all men learn not to behould the Church of Christ with carnall eyes which like fearfull spyes will discourage the people but with the eyes of fayth and good conscience which like Ioshua and Caleb will speak good of the promised Land the spirituall Canaan the Church of God But to the poynt That Mr B. may make sure work he strikes at the head and whetteth his toung like a sword and shooteth bitter words like arrowes at such principall men as God hath raysed vp in this cause whereof some have persevered and stood fast vnto death others have fallen away in the day of temptation whose end hath been worse â—hen theyr beginning The first person in whome he instanceth is one Boulton touching whoÌ„ he wryteth thus that he being the first broacher of this way came to as fearefull an end as Iudas did adding therevpon that God suffereth not his speciall instruments called forth otherwise then after a common course to come to such ends To this I do first answer that neither this man was nor any other of vs is called forth by the Lord otherwise then after a coÌ„mon course even that which is common to all Gods people which is to come out of Babylon and to bring theyr best gifts to Syon for the buylding of the Lords temple there It is true that Boulton was though not the first in this way an Elder of a separated Church in the beginning of Queen Elizabeths dayes and falling away from his holy profession recanted the same at Pauls Crosse afterwards hung himself as Iudas did And what marvayl if he which had betrayed Christ in his truth as Iudas did in his person came to the same fearefull end which Iudas did Nay rather the patience and long suffering of God is to be mervayled at that others also who eyther have embraced this truth and after faln from it or refused to submit vnto it when they have both seen and approved it have not been pursued by the same revengefull hand of God And for the promise of Gods presence with his Gen. 12. 3. Math. 28. 20. Ios. 1. 9. it must ever be taken conditionally viz. whylest they are with him and do his work faythfully as they ought and no further Now touching Browne it is true which Mr B. affirmeth that as he forsook the Lord so the Lord forsook him in his way and so he did his owne people Israel many a tyme. And if the Lord had not forsaken him he had never so returned back into Egypt as he did to live of the spoyles of it as is sayd he speaketh And for the wicked things which Mr B. affirmeth he did in this way it may well be as he sayth and the more wicked things he committed in this course the â—esse like he was to continue long in it and the more like to returne againe to his proper centre the Church of England where he should be sure to find companions ynough in any wickednes as it came to passe Lastly to let passe the vniversall Apostasy of all the Bishops Ministers students in the Vniversityes yea and of the whole Church of England in Queen Maryes tyme a handfull onely excepted in comparison which the Papists might more colourably vrg against Mr B. theÌ„ he some few instaÌ„ces against vs the fall of Iudas an Apostle of Nicholas one of the first 7 DeacoÌ„s of Demas one of Pauls speciall companions in the Ministery do sufficiently teach vs that there is no cause so holy nor calling so excellent which is not subject to the invasion of paynted and deceiptfull hyppocrites whose service the Lord notwithstanding may vse for a tyme till theyr whyting be worne of then leave them to their own deceavable â—usts which will work theyr most wofull downfall thereby warning his people not to repose too much vpon any mortall man in whome there is no stedfastnes but to cast theyr eyes vpon him aâ—one and vpon his truth which chaungeth not Of Mr Barrow and Mr Greenwoods spirit of rayling as this man rayleth against them in another
our selves our witnes is not true but if the word of God beare witnes with vs and against you it must stand And for the advauntage which you suppose you have gayned at vs where we acknowledge our differences to be onely your corruptions it will nothing at all enrich you or better your Church For there are corruptions essentiall and in the very causes constitutive matter forme aswell as els where there are corruptions which eat out the very heart of a thing as well as such as hinder the working onely or steyn the work And we may truely say of all the abhominable doctrines and devises in Rome that they are but so many corruptions of those pure truthes holy ordinances which that Church at the first received from Christ the Lord. And for your similitude of a man whom you say corruptions make not a false man but a corrupt man you are deceived in it whether you consider a man naturally or morally Naturally what is death but the corruption of the man as generatio corruptio are opposed And what is rottennes but the corruption of the body Now these do more then make a corrupt man or corrupt body they do destroy the very being But consider a man morally as in the case of religion he must be considered then morall corruptions vices do eyther make a false man or els a traytor a theif a cousener is a true man which patronage I hope Mr B. will not vndertake The second rank of reasons which Mr B. brings against us are certayne greivous sinns wherewith he sayth all in our way are polluted for which according to our own principle no man may ioyn himselfe vnto vs. The sins he nameth are a renunciation of Gods mercy and of all good things and men with them vnthankfulnes to God and the Church spirituall vncharitablenes audacious censuring a desire to hinder yea to extinguish all the spirituall good they publiquely enioy and a wish of destruction vnto the people and the like Greivous accusations certaynly but if to accuse be to convince who shal be innocent not the Lord Iesus himselfe nor his holy Apostles whose examples in vndergoing the like reproches and in patient bearing of the same at the hands of wicked men if we had not before our eyes eyther our harts would break in vs for sorrow or we should be provoked to render reproach for reproach so sin against God Our first supposed sin is that wofull entrance before named for which I refer the reader to that which hath been before answered But they in England sayth Mr B. enter by baptisme renouncing the Divill and sin So do the Papists as loud as they and with as many godfathers and godmothers crossing and blessing themselves against the Divill and all his works as much as they do And for the renunciation of Gods mercy and all good men and good things in them in the Church of England because we refuse communion there it is a foule charge layd vpon vs but to which we are no more lyable then were the Levites when they forsook Ieroboams Church and repayred to Ierusalem the place which the Lord had chosen For in Israell which they forsook were to be found both good persons and things 1 King 14. 13. and 19. 18. Now where in the last place Mr B. chargeth vs not to make vnclean what God hath cleansed Act. 10. 1â— we on the contrary advise him not to account that clean which sinn and Antichrist doth defyle Let him or any other man on earth shew vnto vs by the word of God that a Church gathered and consisting of persons for the most part defyled with all manner of impiety is clensed by God or that the dayly sacrifice the service book is as a lamb without spot or that the spirituall courts so miscalled are sanctified of God for the government of his kingdome on earth or that the Court keepers the Archflamins and Flamins the Provinciall and Diocesan Bishops with theyr Chauncelers Commissaryes Archdeacons and other officers are his holy ones vpon whome he hath put his Vrim and Thummim and then let vs beare our rebuke if we do not returne to the Church of England and humble ourselves vnder her hand as Hagar did her selfe vnder the hand of her mistresse Gen. 16. 9. The second sinn wherewith Mr B. chargeth vs is our great vnthankfulnes 1. to God that begat vs by his word eyther by denying our conversion â—r els accounting it a false conversion 2. towards the Church of England our mother whom we desire to make a whore before Christ her husband condemn â—â—r c. And this accusation he shutteth vp with most bitter execrations against vs as vnworthy to breath in the ayre For the thankfulnes of our harts vnto the Lord our God for his vnspeakeable mercies we leave it vnto him that knowes the hart and for the manifestation of it vnto men we referr them to our entyre though weak obedience to the whol revealed wil of God and ordinances of Christ Iesus which we take to be the most acceptable sacrifice of thankfulnes which by man can be offered to the Lord. And for our personall conversion in the Church of England we deny it not but do and alwayes have so done iudge and professe it true there and so was Luthers conversion true in the Church of Rome els could not his separation from Rome have been of faith or accepted of God The same may be sayd of all the persons and Churches in the world which have forsaken Rome Our third imagined sinn is spirituall vncharitablenes appearing in our deep censures vpon all at least not inclinable vnto vs condemning such as know not our way as blinded by the God of this world the Divell such as seâ— it yeeld not vnto it as worldlings fearefull convinced in conscience going on in presumptuous sin such as forsake it having formerly enclyned vnto it Apostates and if they oppose it godles persequuters hunters after soules such as shall certainly grow worse worse so as men shall say God is revenged on them c. If any one man have thus peremptorily defined eyther in word or writing as Mr B. witnesseth it was that one mans fault and is not to be imputed to the rest of vs more then Mr B. most malicious hateful accusatioÌ„s in this book to all the Ministers people in the Church of Engl. wherof I doubt not but thowsaÌ„ds are ashamed and to which they would be more vnwilling to subscribe then he to the Bishops canons I for mine own part onely exhort all men in all places as they look to be approved at that day when the secrets of all hearts shal be disclosed that they deale faithfully in the Lords busines take heed they neyther forbeare through partiall praejudice or fleshly feare to inquire after the truth nor with hould it in vnrighteousnes if they have found it
at large by others I do answer that as it was vnlawfull to communicate with Corah or with Vzziah though they burnt true incense or with Ieroboams Preists though they offered true sacrifices so is it vnlawfull to communicate with a devised ministery what truth soever is taught in it Secondly the Lord hath promised no blessing to his word but in his own ordinance though by his superaboundant mercy he oft tymes vouchsafe that which no man can chalendg by any ordinary promise Thirdly no man may partake in other mens sinns but every Ministery eyther devised or vsurped is the sinn of him which exerciseth it And as no good subiect would assist or coÌ„municate with any person in the administration of civil iustice to the Kings subiects no not though hâ— administred the same never so equally and indifferrently except the same person had commission from the King so to do so neyther ought the subiects of the kingdome of Christ to partake with any person whomsoever in the dispensation of any spirituall thing though in it self never so holy without sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and sovereigne King of his Church Christ Iesus And where Mr B. speaks of hearing the true word of God onely preached he intimates therin that if we would heare him preach it would satisfy him wel and so teacheth vs with himselfe and others to make a schisme in the Church in vsing one ordinance and not another It is all one whether a man communicate with the Minister in his pulpit or with the Chauncelor in his consistory both of them minister by the same power of the Bishop The Chauncelor may iudge iustly who knowes whither or no the Minister will teach truely And if he do not but speak the vision of his owne heart what remedy hath the Church or what can they that hear him do May they rebuke him openly according to his sin and so bring him to repentance or must they not beare his errors yea his heresyes also during the pleasure of the Bishops even their Lord his And would you Mr B. be content your people should heare a masse Preist or Iesuite though he professed as loud as you do that he would teach the true word of God And think not scorne of the match for you have the selfe same office with a masse Preist though refyned If he be ordayned by a Bishop though it be the Bishop of Rome he may minister in any Church of England by vertue of that ordination And besides masse Preists preach some and those the mayne truthes and the Ministers in England neither do nor daâ—e preach all no nor some which it may be the others do Is it not better then for the servaÌ„ts of the L. Iesus to exercise aedify themselves according to the model of grace receaved though in weaker measure then to be so simple as to come to your feasts though you cry never so loud vnto them thinking that because your stoln waters are sweet and your hidden bread pleasant that they have no power to passe by but must needs become your guests Lastly Mr B. even to make vp the measure of his mallice as he formerly reproached vs by the oppositioÌ„s dissentioÌ„s which he hath heard of amongst vs so doth he here by the vnity and love which himselfe hath seen in vs comparing it page 64. to the love of Familists and Papists and other wretched and graceles companions So that belike whither we love or hate whither we agree or disagree this man wil be sure to fynd matter of reproch vnto vs and of stumbling to himselfe as the Iewes did both from Iohns austerity and from Christs more sociable course of life Math. 11. 18. 19. Our fourth sin is abusing the word of which all are guilty by misalledging and wresting places of Scripture c and this Mr B. proves because some have accused some of the principall of vs with it If accusation be conviction Mr B. needs not speak of some or any other he himselfe hath most mightily coÌ„vinced vs for he hath most hatefully accused vs of any man a live The fifth sin supposed is our wilfull persisting in our schism lightly regarding reverend mens labours and sinfully despising weaker meanes c. It is well knowne that Mr B. how earnestly soever he pleads with vs for the contrary doth himselfe as much neglect save for his owne purposes the iudgment of other men as any other neyther is there one minister in the land I am verily perswaded with whoÌ„ he suiteth but a right Ismael is he lesse or more having his hand against every man and every mans against him Well I deny our separation to be schism as we take the word much lesse do we persist wilfully in it And for the iudgment of other men as we despise not the meanest so neyther do we pin our faith vpon the sleeves of the most learned The other exceptions of shifting and evading the scriptures of perversnes of spirit in conference I pretermit as being both frivolous despitefull onely something must be answered before we passe this poynt to the charge layd vpon vs Pag 98. touching corruptions in the Churches Apostolicall and reformed And first obiect to them sayth he the corruptions of the Churches Apostolicall and theyr answer is eyther that we mayntayn our corruptioÌ„s by the sinnes of other Churches or els they were in a true constitution And how can you with modesty reiect this answer you say we misconstrue your intendement which is that corruption make not a false Church We grant it except they be essentiall but this is that we say that what Church soever alledgeth the corruptions of other Churches with a purpose to coÌ„tinue in the like theÌ„selves which is your estate that Church maintaynes her corruptions by the sinns of other Churches And for the second poynt I do affirme that merely by vertue of a constitution there may be a true Church of God though abounding for the present in sinne and iniquity yet another assembly not rightly constituted or gathered into covenant with God no true Church though lesse impieties be to be found in it The Prophet Ieremy complaines that the iniquity of the daughter of his people namely Ierusalem was become greater then the sinn of Sodom and the Prophet Ezekiâ—l affirmes that Ierusalem was more corrupt by half then Sodom and Samaria And yet was Ierusalem the true Church of God which neyther Samaria nor Sodom were no nor yet any other place in the world where not halfe the wickednes was wrought that was to be found in the better of them This poynt I will further examplify by a symilitude A woman free and separated from all other men and ioyned in civill covenant to a man is his wyfe yea though shee prove very stubborn and disobedient yea and dishonest also till the bill of divorcement be given her but
froÌ„ all other nations to be his people and that he might be their God And as one of the Lords ordinances suits with an other and depends vpon an other so from this nationall Church doth necessarily arise a representative Church For where communion together in the holy things of God is an act and operation of the Church for the mutuall aedification of the parts and that it was impossible that the whole body of a nation should in the intire simple proper or personall parts members communicate togeither the Lord so ordered and disposed that that communion should be had and exercised after a manner and in a sort and that was by way of representation And to this end the Lord made choise of one speciall place in the land which he gave his people to possesse at the first alterable but afterwards constant and vnchangeable where he would haue his tabernacle pitched and his temple built where he would put his name and dwell and which he would honour above all places with his glory and presence There was also one onely tabernacle or temple one high Preist one altar vnto which the whole nationall Church had reference thither must they bring all their sacrifices tithes and offrings thither were causes hard and difficult to be brought that the people might be shewed the sentence of iudgement informed and taught the law by the Preists of the Levites There was the dayly sacrifice offred for the whole nationall Church morning and evening continually there the Lord appointed with the children of Israel sanctifying the place with his glory binding himself by his promise to dwell amongst them and to be their God There was the high Preist to cary graven vpon two onix stones as the stones of remembrance of the children of Israel put vpon the shoulders of the Ephâ—d the names of the children of Israel according to their tribes for a remembrance and againe the names of the children of Israel according to their twelve tribes iâ— twelve stones set vpon the breast plate of iudgement vpon his heart for a remembrance continually before the Lord. There was also set vpon the pure table of Shittim wood in the tabernacle twelve loaves of shew bread continually before the Lord according to the twelve tribes of Israel for a remembrance Now all these were ordinances representative in a Church representative and other Church representative amongst the Iewes I neyther know not acknowledge And the ground of this representation was the necessary absence of the people represented Necessary I call it whether we respect the ordinance of God inhibiting the peoples entrance into the place where the most of these representations were made or whether wee respect the impossibility of the whole nations ordinarie assembling and communicating together And herevpon it comes to passe that all other Churches since so framed and of such qualitie as that they cannot ordinarily assemble together keep communion haue also as their images or shadowes their Churches representative The catholik visible Ch of Rome hath her visible Ch representative the Popes CoÌ„sistory or Colledge of Cardinalls or the generall Council gathered by his authority The nationall Church of Engl hath her nationall Church representative the Convocation house as have also the Provinciall and Diocesan Churches their representations the Archbishops Bishops Consistories But as the bodyes of these Churches are monstrous devises of mens braynes there being no other Churches vnder the new testament but particular assemblies so are their shadowes the Churches representative mere devises of devises And to apply this nearer the purpose Since the Church now consisteth not of one nation severed from all other nations but of particular assemblies of faithfull people separated from all other assemblies which like so many distinct flockes do ordinarily heard together and so communicate in the word prayer sacraments censures and that where the Church grew sometimes greater by the suddayne and extraordinary conversion of more then could well so assemble then was there presently a dispersion of the former and a multiplication of more particular assemblies Act. 2. 41. 42. 8. 4. 5. 6. 9. 31. 14. 23. 27. 15. 22. 30. Rev. 1. 4. 11. this rases the foundation of all representative Churches as eyther politick devises or at the best praeposterous imitations of the Iewish Church and polity For as I have formerly sayd and common sense teacheth it the foundation of representation is the necessary absence of that which is represented whether person or thing And so since there is no necessity that the body of a particular Church should be absent but on the contrary a necessity that the same be present at and in all the publick administrations and actions of communion in the Churches holy things we do therefore disclaym as supersluous and feyned all representative Churches whatsoever Secondly if the outward form of Church government now be fetched from the Iewish Church then as in that representative Ch there was an high Preist set over the rest in whose person and administration the representation of the whole Church was most eminent so must there now be also in this representative Church one officer over the rest and as it were their high Preist And so the catholik representative Church of Rome hath an vniversall Bishop the Pope over it the Nationall Provinciall and Diocesan Churches representative Nationall Provinciall and Diocesan Bishops over them And so in all equitie should the Synodes and Praesbyteries accounting themselves properly Churches or bodies Ecclesiasticall have their Officers over them and so there should alwayes be one or more Ministers over the Church of Ministers and whose charge these Synodes and Presbyteries should be to be fed by them And the truth is this reason fetcht from the Iewish Church as it far better fitts the Praelates in England then the CoÌ„sistorians so fitts it the Papists better then eyther of them both for there is one Bishop over the catholick visible Church as they speak as there was one high Preist over the whole visible Ch then Adde vnto this that if the representative Church at Ierusalem be a pattern for a representative Church vnto vs then as there not onely hard causes were opened declared according to the law but also the sacrifices offred and most solemne services performed day by day without the presence of the body of the Church so now in this our representative Church consisting of the officers onely there must be not onely the vse of the keyes for admonitioÌ„ and excommunication but there must also be the preaching of the word and ministring of the sacraments which are our most solemn services whether the people be present or no. And to imagine a power of Christ in the Church of the officers for the vse of one solemne ordinance out of the communion of the body not for an other hath no ground from the Iewish Church Lastly to fetch the form of
Barnabas coÌ„ming among them is not said to have ioyned theÌ„ vnto the Lord but to have exhorted them which were ioyned to coÌ„tinue with the Lord. vers 23. and to have perswaded others to ioyn themselues unto the Lord also vers 24. but that this course ordinary set by Christ should be held in the replanting of Churches after the vniversall apostasie of Antichrist is a thing impossible There were then no Ministers but popish Priests and are they the Lords meanes Mr Bernard Shall the man of sin be consumed by himself or by the breath of the Lords mouth Are false Ministers the Lords ordinary means of planting Churches Or are popish massepreists or the popish Bishops from whom they have their authority and so the Pope himself from whom they have theirs true Ministers And is the Church of Rome a true visible Church For it is not possible there should be a true Ministery in a false Church These are the inconveniences and discommodities Mr Bernard speaks of by which he sayth we would wring the truth from him But it is certayn they are such playne demonstrations as do evince his pretended truthes of popish and popular errours And for the gathering of a Church M. B. I do tell you that in what place soever by what means soever whether by preaching the gospell by a true Minister by a false minister by no minister or by reading conference or any other meanes of publishing it two or three faithfull people do arise separating themselves froÌ„ the world into the fellowship of the gospell and covenant of Abraham they are a Church truely gathered though never so weak a house and temple of God rightly founded vpon the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Christ himsef being the corner stone against which the gates of hell shall not prevayl nor your disgracefull invectives neyther Indeed * the Pharisees thought bycause they had Abraham for their father and did descend of him by ordinary succession were the formall Teachers of the Church that therefore God could not possibly cast them off or have a Church without them even so it is with the Pharisaicall formall clergy in Rome and England they think that Christ hath so tyed his power and presence vnto their ceremony of succession that without them he knowes not how to do for a Church but must needs have it passe through their fingers But as Iohn Baptist told the old Pharisees that God was able of the stones to raise vp children vnto Abraham though they all every one of them like vnfruitfull trees should be cut downe and cast into the fâ—râ— so say I vnto their children the Pharisees of our â—yme that though the Lord reject them and every one of them for their apostacy and rebellion yet can he by the seed of the word cast with what hand soever rayse vp vnto Abraham children vnto himself a Church They that are of the faith of Abraham they are the children and seed of Abraham and within the covenaunt of Abraham though but two or three and so of the same Church with him by that covenaunt Your last argument to prove the officers the Church Math. 18. and directly to disprove our supposed popularity is that it is against the dignity and office of the Ministers who represent Christs person vnto the Congregation 1 Cor. 4. 1. having authority from him to preach administer the sacraments vse the censures which none but such as represent him can give them which the body of the people do not by office nor take from them c. This indeed is the thing the dignity of Preisthood is it which goes nearest you and that you keep last as Iacob did Beniamin whom of all his sonnes he was loathest to part with Gen. 42. 4. 43. 14. But first if your meaning be that the Ministers by their office represent Christ in his office it is little lesse then blasphemy for Christ is the husband and mediatour of his Church by his office and herein not to be represented by any other man or angel The ministers in publishing the gospell and word of reconciliation are in Christs stead and therein to be obeyed as himself but what if they speak the vision of their own hart and publish heresy false doctrine or lead a scandalous and prophane life their office is no dispensation for them neyther are they now any longer in the stead of Christ but of the Divel whom they resemble as children their father and are so to be reputed Besides there is no force in your argument bycause the body of the Church represents not Christ by office as the Ministers do therefore it is no way equall with the Ministers nor may medle with them but the contrary May not a man as well argue thus Bycause the wife no way represents her housband in office for she is in no office the same may be sayd of the children aâ— the steward and the bayliffe doe therefore the wife is no way superiour vnto them she may not reprove or displace them in her husbandâ— absence what evil soever they doe in their office or persons but on the contrary they may rebuke her and turne her out of doores and her children with her if there be cause For they represent the maister in office she not Now wee know well the Church is the wife and spouse of Christ the Ministers stewards Thus having cleared the way of such obiections as wherewith Mr Bernard would stumble the reader I come in the next place as I have formerly ordered my course to declare that the Church Math. 18. 17. is not the officers but the whole body meeting together for the publique worship of God and that 1 Cor. 5. proves the same by practise which is in the former place enjoyned by rule Onely I must needs by the way make a step into his 2. book amongst his score of reasons there against popularity and so remove as it were with my foot such of them as are tumbled in by him to make rough the playn wayes of the Lord. And they are as the authour numbers them the 7. 12. 13. 17. 18. The 7. Reason is that if a sort of persons professing Christ together without officers haue the power of such officers in themselves they may do all the officers may do Wee say not that the Church hath the power of the officers but the power of Christ as is expresly affirmed 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. and 2. it followes not that bycause the Church hath the power of Christ for all things therefore it can injoy all things without officers The power is one thing which is inseparable from the body the vse of the power an other thing which in many cases it may want Civil corporations have the Kings power and charter as well without as with officers and yet it may be there are liberties in their charter they cannot enjoy without officers they
of he is inferiour to the teaching Elders and deserves lesse honour then they For so the Apostle orders things RoÌ„ 12. 7. 8. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Now in making your Bishops Pastours Doctours you are double forgetfull of your self and double injurious vnto them and which is worse then both the rest you sin against the Lord his truth For the first in your former book you made your Bishops cheif officers in the Church and the successours of the Apostles and Evangelists and here you make them Pastours and Teachers which are the lowest orders of officers that Christ gave for the work of the ministery Ephe. 4. 11. 2. if your Bishops be Pastours and Teachers by their office what are you and the rest of your rank You and they have not the same office but you an office vnder them and so Pastours and Teachers being the lowest order that Christ hath left in his Church your order must needs be something vnder the lowest and of an others leavings then Christs 3. in making your Bishops the Pastours Teachers of the Church of England or the particular Churches in it you lay to their charge an accusation which they will never be able to answer at the day of the Lord which is their not feeding of so many thowsand sheep committed vnto them to be fedd and taught by them Lastly nothing is more vntrue and disagreable to the word of God then that your Provinciall and Diocesan Bishops are the Pastours and Teachers given by Christ to his Church There were no other ordinary officers left or appointed by the Apostles in the Churches but such as were fixed to particular congregations ordinarily called Bishops or Elders Act. 14. 23. 20. 17. 28. Phil. 1. 1. And if it can be shewed that by the word of God any other officers were left or appointed in the Church after the extraordinary officers Apostles Prophets Evangelists whose gifts and places vvere extraordinary besides such Bishops and Elders as vvere limited to particular Churches I vvill yeeld this vvhole cause in the point of the Ministery and so professe The other of Mr B. answer I mynd is about the power of Christ against sin Sathan Antichrist the want whereof Mr Ainsw and that truely objecteth against the English assemblyes Mr B. defence summarily is that there is in the Church of England the preaching of the word which is the power of Christ Rom. 1. 18. as also excommunication though not in every parrish yet in the Church of England in which is comprehended all parrishes and all superiour power over them For which let the Reader observe these particulars First a national Church since Christs death and the dissolution of the Iewish Church is amonstrous compound and savours of Iudaism Secondly if the mayn part of the power of Christ be to be administred in a particular congregation by the ordinary officers thereof namely the preaching of the gospell why not the inferiour part the censures also save that the Byshops to Lord it over all will keep this rod in their own hands Thirdly the Ministers whose judgments reasons you avouch both say and prove in the latter end of your book that this power is given to a particular congregation of faithful people Fourthly you your self lay it down as a mayn ground against popularity and withal sundry scriptures to prove it that Christ hath appoynted the same sorts of men in his Church for preaching administration of the sacraments and government Lastly it is apparant that the particular Church of Corinth gathered together in the name of the Lord Iesus had the power of the Lord Iesus for excommunication and so hath every other faythful assembly in the world as they had which since your assemblyes are not they may want this power without any great wrong the evil onely is that it resteth in a worse place then the worst parrish assembly the Bishops court or consistory I proceed Onely my desire is that the things which I have noted touching Christs kingly office be the more carefully observed by all the people of God and servants of Iesus in respect of that most direct opposition which in those latter dayes is made against it and the administration thereof For as in the first tymes after Christs comming in the flesh his prophetical office was directly impugned by Iewes and heathens so as it was †not lawful to speak in his name since that his preisthood by the masse-preisthood sacrifices in the popish Church so now in the last place doth Sathan in his instruments bend his force most directly against and with might and mayn oppose the sovereignty and crown of our Lord Iesus that he may not rule in his Church by his own officers and lawes The matter you say is not false and to shew this you note a difference between true matter false matter and no matter As you speak that which neyther any other nor yet your selfe can vnderstand of false matter so you call them no matter which make no profession of Christ at all â—â— Iewes Turkâ—s Pagans and all them true matter to wit visible which openly professe this â—â—yn truth that Iesus the sonne of Mery is the sonne of 〈…〉 Christ the Lord by whom onely and 〈…〉 they shal be saved Many greivous errours are bound vp 〈…〉 invective of Mr Bernards but for prophanenes this one surmounts them all For what can be spoken more prejudicial to the glorie of God or deragotory to the body of Christ hâ—â— that any person but pronouncing so many words how fil 〈…〉 ious soever he be in his life or what errours soever he mingle with this truth is notwithstanding true visible matter of the Church or a true member of Christs body visibly or so far as men can iudg and so must be received acknowledged Against this odious and prophane errour I wil first deal by some clear Arguments proving the contrary and then come to the allegations he makes for his vngodly purpose If all that professe this mayn truth Iesus the son of Mary c. be true matter of the Church then are most notable haeretiques true matter of the Church The Apellites Câ—rdoâ—â—ans and Marcioâ—â—â—es holding two contrary beginnings or Gods the one good the other evil the Macedonians denying the Holy Ghost to be God the Cerâ—â—â—hyans holding that Christ is not yet risen from the dead the Paternians affirming the inferiour parts of the body of man to be created of the Divill the Patricâ—â—â—â— holding so of the whole body the Novatians and Cathari denying repentance to them that sin the Nicholaitans holding community of all things the Swenk seldians and Enthusiasts denying the outward ministery wayting vpon the revelation of the spirit alone and with these many others as ill or worse then they professing notwithstanding this mayn truth as the most of them did and do Then are excommunicates true matter of the
dishonour of God profanation of his ordinances You speak much of the reformation of your Church after Popery There was indeed a great reformation of things in your Church but very little of the Church to speak truely and properly The people as I haue sayd are the Church and to make a reformed Church there must be first a reformed people and so there should haue been with you by the preaching of repentance from dead works and faith in Christ that the people as the Lord should haue vouchsafed grace being first fitted for made capable of the sacraments and other ordinances might afterwards have communicated in the pure vse of them for want of which in stead of a pure vse there hath been and is at this day a most prophane abuse of them to the great dishonour of Christ and his gospell and to the hardening of thowsands in their impenitencie Others also indeavouring yet a further reformation have sued and do sue to Kings and Queens and Parliaments for the rooting out of the Prelacy and with it of such other evill fruits as grow from that bitter root and on the contrary to have the Ministery government and discipline of Christ set over the Parishes as they stand the first fruit of which reformation if it were obteyned would be the further profanation of the more of Gods ordinances vpon such as to whom they apperteyned not and so the further provocation of his great Majesty vnto anger and indignation against all such as so practised or consented therevnto Is it not strange that men in the reforming of a Church should almost or altogether forget the Church which is the people or that they should labor to crown Christ a King over a people whose Prophet he hath not first been or to set him to rule by his lawâ—s officers over the professed subjects of Antichrist the Divel or is it possible that ever they should submit to the discipline of Christ which have not first been prepared in some measure by his holy doctrine taught with meekâ—es to stoop vnto his yoke Both you Mr B they of the other sort do tel vs oft of the reformed Churches and of your agreement with them I wish to God from my very hart that both you and they would compare your selves with them in this principall point vnto which all other are but as accessaries They after the abolition of Popery were established at the first whether by a new plantation new wee mean in respect of the present estate of Rome or by reformation onely as you will haue it and are still continued and increased by the free voluntary and personall profession of faith and confession of sinnes of such men and women as are by the word of God and the publishing of it perswaded and in some measure fore-fitted to joyn vnto them and walk with them and all this without any compulsion with the fear of Iosiahs sword or Hezechiahs proclamation by which you confesse your Church to have been in the persons of King Edward Queen Elizabeth brought back from Antichrist to the reformation wherin now you staÌ„d for which you peremptorily professe there is not required any profession of the name of Christ. Let it then be considered of and judged by all indifferent men how it can possibly be that both the reformed Churches abroad and the vnreformed Church of England can be truely gathered after the apostasie of Antichrist the former being separated from Popety into covenant with the Lord in the particular members by voluntary profession of faith without compulsion and the latter by compulsion without profession of faith Howsoever government freedom or voluntarynes be not contrary according to your most ignorant affirmation yet compulsion and voluntarines are and contraries cannot stand together and be made true no not by God himself My hope was that the argument of compulsion once ended I might with good leave have returned to the former book but see after so many provings and professings of Rome a true Church still in covenant with God that the Churches now separating from her were not to be gathered of such voluntaries as in the first plantation nor needed the preaching of the word to go before for their conversioÌ„ but that the Magistrate might compel them by fear and that so the reformation of the Church of England was wrought Mr B. now tels vs a cleane contrary tale and that their reformation was voluntary and not constreyned and how that came about First to let passe the succession of the Church he pleads from King Etheldred King of Kent of which I haue spoken so lately as the reader may bear mine answer in mind that the Queens Maiesty with many others began a voluntary reformation and that the supream power as he calls it being gathered made proclamatioÌ„ of her godly intent which was a kind of teaching to which the people yeelded voluntarily for any thing that any man can say to the contrary and pag. 245. adioyned themselves vnto them and that the act of the cheif doing it voluntarily is to be accounted the act of all though the inferiours come not to consent for proof of which he quoteth three scriptures Ex. 19. 3. 7. 8. Iosh. 4. 2. 8. 2 Chr. 14. 2. A solide proof bycause the Queen did voluntarily imbrace the truth in a measure therfore the whole body of the land whom she vrged by proclamation and other inforcements did voluntarily professe and imbrace the same For touching the supream power gathered that is the Counsell Nobles when she came to the crown they were such as had imediately before both enacted and exequuted most bloody statutes against such as voluntarily professed the truth and where you and the Ministers with you pag. 187. affirm that the body of the land did in Queen Elizabeths tyme adioyn themselves vnto that company which had stood out in Queen Maries dayes it is clean otherwise for they that so stood out adioyned themselves to the rest in the severall Parishes where their houses stood and occasions lay vnder the formerly masse-preists then for the most part ignorant and prophane preists with their English reformed masse-book In adding further that the Queens proclamation was a kind of teaching you trifle notably the quaestion is of such a teaching as was effectuall to make a whole nation of Antichristians the week before true Christians and a true Church It was in deed the onely effectuall means the people had generally and if the Queen had proclaymed the contrary the next week it would haue been as effectual to haue turned them to their former vomit again Your presumption that no man can say to the contrary but that the people yeelded voluntarily to the truth vpon the Queens proclamation is vayn considering what the voluntary yeeling or submission vnto the Gospel of Christ is which the scriptures commend vnto vs in the establishing of Churches The gospel
manner of arguing If this lyne hold from Peter to the Pope and from the Pope to his clergy and so successively to the Ministery of England then it stands vpright if it break then doth the ministery of England which as Mr Bernard truely honestly confesseth is thus raysed fall flat to the ground as indeed it doth according to the foretelling of the Angel it is fallen it is fallen Babylon the great City But here it wil be demaunded of me how the Lords people comming out of Babylon separating from Rome are to obteyn and enjoy Ministers Surely one of these three wayes Eyther by the extaordinary immediate or miraculous designation of God or by succession or by the same peoples choise or appointment to which they are to minister To expect ministers by the first meanes were fancy and presumption so that by one of the two other wayes they must come necessarily The power of the holy things of God so specially of erecting the minstery is eyther tyed to the order of office so to the order of to the Popeship Praelacy under it or els to the faith of the people of God forsaking BabyloÌ„ joyning together in the covenant of AbrahaÌ„ fellowship of the gospel The former of these though Mr B be driveÌ„ to plead it in the proof of succession yet in the defence of it he is forced to disclaym disavow yeelding the Romish Ministery to be Idolatry and superstition and that he speaks of such a succession as requires with it a true office true doctrine true sacraments and prayer pag. 188. and agayn that he meanes by succession a continuance of Gods ordinance by persons elected thereto from tyme to tyme being of spirituall kindred by the fayth of doctrine by which the ordinance is vpheld and true succession mainteyned pag 190. With which graunt of his I might rest as indeed wherein he yeeldeth the whole cause and cutts off as it were with his own hands the cord of true succession in the Ch of Rome making it to fayl when the truth of doctrine and of election fayled in the same Ch But bycause it is so common a thing with him to say and vnsay and to say agayn the same things eyther forgetting himself or thinking others forgets or bycause he would say something to every thing though never so contrary both to the truth and himself in another place I will presse Mr Smythes other Arguments The third of which is that by the doctrine of succession men are bound absolutely to sin in joyning to the sinns of the Minister This is sayth Mr B to take vnproved a principle of Brownism to overthrow a truth namely that a man cannot receive the holy things of God but he must needs sin with others And is it so indeed Doe not the scriptures every where teach men to avoyd reiect and hold accursed false teachers haeretiques and idolaters and not to partake in the sinne of others eyther by practising them or giving consent or countenance vnto them Wherevpon it followeth that the doctrine which binds the Ministery and other holy things of God vnto succession and thereby to partake with haeretiques and false teachers or at least with such in their ministration as have received the power and authority by which they minister froÌ„ the Pope and his Praelacy bynds men to sinne in joyning with the sinns of the Ministers Of the Iewish Church Preisthood which Mr Berâ—here objects I haue spoken formerly and do now adde that as no man is now so tyed to any Church or Ministery in the world as was every faythfull person in the world then to that one temple and Preisthood at Ierusalem so neyther could any man then without sinn communicate with an â—aereticall or idolatrous Preist especially ministring in a false office and by the like calling and coÌ„mission which the Ministers both in Rome and England doe In the 4. Argument Mr Ber deales dishonestly Mr Smiths inference vpon the doctrine of succession is that then the Lord hath made the Ministers Lords over the Church so that the Church cannot have or enjoy any of the Lords ordinances or holy things except they will consent vnto them for the holy things are in their power Now Mr Ber. onely trifles about the word Lord and passeth by the substance of the inference which is most sound vpon the doctrine For if the Lords ordinances and holy things be tyed to the Ministers then without their consent there can be no vse of them And so where Ministers eyther are not or not willing to coÌ„municate them there can be no Church no electioÌ„ of Ministers no keyes of the kingdom and so no salvation as I have formerly manifested vpon Math. 16. 19. The sum of Mr Smithes 5. Argument is that then the Pope may excommunicate the whole Church vniversall the Bishops their whole Dioceses and Provinces and the Praesbytery the particular Church whereof it is Your answer Mr Bernard is that this were to do the Pope a great favour to prove him to have an vniversall power c. and 2. that by this sequell of Mr Smythes this absurdity would follow that the Bishop might cast out the Church out of the Church It is you that do the Pope this great favour though you would not own it For if the Ministery make the Church and that Rome be a true Church then must the ministery of Rome be true specially of the Pope from which the other is derived as from the head Agayn if the ordinatioÌ„ by the Bishops in the impure Church of Rome be the Lords order as you expresly affirm p. 145. of your former book then must the Popes vniversall power by which the Bishops doe vniversally ordeyn be the power of the Lord which from him he hath received for that purpose They which hold that the power of the keyes was given first immediately to the Apostle Peter so to the Popes of Rome his successours they hold that the Pope may excommunicate the whole Church so they which hold the Bishop or his substitute to be meant where Christ sayth tell the Church they must necessarily hold that the Bishop or his substitute may excommunicate his whole Province or Dioces and so of them which hold the Praesbytery to be the Ch there spoken of for the particular assembly over which it is The Church there meant may excoÌ„municate any brother or brethren whom or how many soever that refuse to hear her as the Church of Corinth to whoÌ„ Paul writ might judge all them which were within and not without vnder the Lords iudgement The substance of the seventh last objection is for the 6. hath no weight in it that the doctrine of succession overthrowes it self and the Reason is bycause one POPE doth not make another by ordination whyles he lives but the Cardinals do by Election make the new Pope after the death of the former So that the Pope receiving his
in the same story when Deacons were wanting in the Ch at Ierusalem the twelve calling the multitude of the disciples together put them in mind of their liberty and informed them in their duety for the chusing of so many as were needfull so furnished as is there noted The same course did Paul and Barnabas afterwards direct the Churches amongst the Gentiles for the chusing of Elders in every City where they came Now if all things which are written before be written for our learning and for the learning of all the Churches and people of God why are not the people and Churches of God in all places to learne from hence their liberty and duty for the chusing of officers where they are wanting having men therevnto fitted by the Lord. And what hindereth but that the Church the multitude the Disciples call them as you wil in the fellowship and covenant of the gospell may be as clearely informed in their duety and as effectually exhorted to the vse of their liberty by the writings of the Prophets and Apostles as by their speaches The Apostle wryting to the Church of Corinth about the censuring of the incestuous man though he were absent in body yet was present in spirit which was in effect all one and as avaylable to that purpose as his bodily presence should have been so though Moses and Peter and Paul be bodily absent yet are they in their wrytings present in spirit after a sort nay God himself in spirit is present in them with his Churches people both for their warrant direction and comfort Though it be true then which M B sayth that the people wayted till the Apostles came and that they did not elect officers but vpon their exhortation yet must it also be considered that Apostles do now come in their writings as there they did in corporall presence and that they exhort as fully in them now as they did in speach then Besides there are now no Apostles vpon earth nor other Church officers having the care of all the Churches in the world as the Apostles had nor that are extraordinarily and miraculously endewed with all giftes especially with the gift of all tongues as the Apostles were nor that have the like generall commision to teach all nations as they had The ordinary officers which the Apostles and Evangelists left in the Churches and for the choyse of whom they left order to the worlds end were such Elders or Byshops as were assigned and fixed to such particular flockes as they were to feed vnder that cheif sheepheard and great Bishop Iesus Christ. Besides if the Churches or people should wayt now as M Ber. would have them till the Bishops of Rome or England came to them as the Apostles did to the Churches in their time to exhort them to chuse officers and to ordeyn them for them they might languish vnder a wan hope wayt till their eyes fayled in their heads Wherevpon then I do conclude that if the Church without officers may elect it may also ordeyn officers if it have the power and commission of Christ for the one and that the greater it hath it also for the other which is the lesse If it haue officers it must vse them as hands to put the persons by ordination into that office to which they haue right by election but if it want officers it may and must vse other the fittest instruments it hath as in the naturall body if men want hands or be deprived of the vse of them they do for their present necessity vse their teeth or feet or other fittest parts of the body for the busynes possible to be done by them Lastly if the Lord should rayse vp in America or the like place a company of faythfull men and women which of stones should become children to Abraham by the reading of the scriptures or by some godly mens writings or which is most like by the holy instructions and exhortations of some merchants or travaylers how or by what meanes should they come by Ministers Must they be sent out of Europe unto theÌ„ And if they were they would be barbariâ—ns ech to others neyther vnderstanding others language But what to do hath the Pope of Rome or the Bishops in England or the Praesbytery in Germany or France to appoynt them in America Ministers It is evident that such an assembly as I speak of having received the gospel haue received the keyes of the kingdome and the power of Christ and being joyned in this fellowship of the gospell haue the joynt vse of the keyes power of Christ being within the covenaunt of Abraham are the Ch of God so haue power to choose and appoynt their own Ministers froÌ„ within themselves Now because these things wil be better taken at other mens haÌ„ds then at ours yea it may be with many through praejudice their very authority wil sway more then our Arguments though never so rightly grounded vpoÌ„ the scriptures coÌ„mon reason I wil therefore here crave leave to bring in a few men of singular note both at home abroad to shew their judgments in the case in hand And I will first bring in one of our own nation of great account and that worthily with al that fear God how ever he were against vs in our practise The man is Mr Perkins He then writing about ordination succession in his CoÌ„mentary vpon the Epistle to Gal ch 1. ver 11. gives this testimony that if in Turky or America or elswhere the gospel should be received of men by the counsel perswasion of private persons they should not need to send into Europe for consecrated Ministers but had power to choose their own Ministers from within themselves the Reasons of this he renders in the same place bycause where God gives the word he gives the power also And I do desire especially his ReasoÌ„ may be observed which is that where God gives the word there he gives the power also Wherevpon it followes that any other asseÌ„bly whether in America or Europe separating themselves froÌ„ Idolatry whether Heathenish or Antichristian receiving the gospell of Christ do with the gospel receive the power also so may choose their ministers within themselves need not send to any other place no not to the next parish for consecrated Ministers In the 2. place I wil alledg one of greater note and more ancient and that is Philip Melancton who in his Answer to the ministers in Bohemia which taught the incorrupt doctrine of the gospell refutes the praetext of ordination to be taken from the Bishops with that of Paul if any teach another gospell let him be an Athema adding also that onely the assembly where true doctrine soundeth is the Church and that in it is the ministery of the gospell in it are the keyes of the kingdom of heaveÌ„ Wherefore in that very assembly in eo ipso coetu
heaven do yet see the wounds and blood of Christ that a sinner need not confesse his life bycause God knowes all things that he needs not repeat what he would have bycause God knowes it before he askes that the scripture declares there was no drop of blood in Christ which he shed not for sinners that the spirit of Christ did after his buriall descend into the lower parts to them that long were in darknes the true light of their hearts that the sun in the firmament the heavens the earth the sea and all therein yea the spirits beneath were made for man to rule them But these things I passe over and come to Mr B second row of errours imputed to vs which he judgeth sufficiently confuted in the former as also to be so absurd and false as that the reading of them is sufficient to make them to be reiected The first of them is that their congregations as they stand are all and every one of them vncapable before God to chuse them Ministers though they desire the meanes of salvation First let it here be noted that Mr B in this same book pag 136 compared with pag. 138. makes it a rule for the Churches making a Minister which must be kept and from which she may not â—werve that the guides and governours of the Church do choose one from amongst others for the Ministery If the guides and governours must choose how then apperteyns this to your congregations or how are they capable of this liberty 2. If they be capable of this liberty why do they not vse it There is no congregation in the Land which as a Church chooseth their Minister the Patron and Bishop have seazed this liberty at their courtesie doth the congregation stand to receive eyther a preacher or dumb preist eyther a man of some conscience or without all â—oar of God or coÌ„mon honesty whom they may not refuse And if some parishes choose it is not as Churches but as Patrons They have purchased the right of patronage with their money and so vse it But what is this to that spirituall liberty and charter of Christs spirituall kingdome the Church 3. I deny that any congregation in the Land desires the means of salvation I speak of the congregation which is the whole consisting of the parts joyntly considered The best parish hath too many in it that love darknes rather then light because their deeds are evill This you find true in your own Mr B. which you deem one of the best And what right hath such an assembly to chuse a Minister which hath no right to his ministrations of the sacraments other holy things Because the Lord Iesus hath given his power and charter to his subjects for the choise of their officers whether many or few doth it therefore follow that the subjects of sinne Satan professed traytours vnto his Majesty have the same liberty or can his subjects combine with them that are and allwayes have been such in the vse or rather in the vsurpation of that divine priviledge These things Mr B you extenuate bycause you want them but the Churches of Christ accounts them pretious things which they therefore labour to preserve pure Of your false worship something hath been before more shal be hereafter spoken and you do idely make it a distinct errour from the tenth That baptism is not administred into the fayth of Christ simply but into the fayth of Bishops Church of England which you make our 3. errour do we not affirm but leave it to him for justification which not content with that in England received hath found out since a 2. or 3. as he supposeth better then that was ¶ Wee are to consider baptism first and principally in relation from GOD to vs and as a seal of the covenant of grace into which he hath received vs and secondarily in relation from vs to God as we restipulate or promise agayn vnto him In the first respect it is effectuall vpon the very infants of the faithfull though for the present wanting fayth in the 2. both may be is vpon such as erre in many great poynts of fayth otherwise the baptism ministred by Iohn into the fayth of Christ which came after him could not have been true vnto many which received it being ignorant a long tyme after of the very kingdoÌ„ office of Christ. To conclude then since the essential form of institution is reteyned in the baptism in Engl the doctrine of the Trinity sincerely held into whose name all persons are baptized indefinitely the particular errours in that Church touching the manner of worshiping God or touching the vses or ends of baptism which are not of the essence cannot make the baptism in it self cease to be indefinite Of the 4. Errour imputed vnto vs namely that we hould your fayth and repentance false I say as of the third and doubt not but the personall fayth and repentance of very many men and women there according to the measure of knowledge and grace received is true and sincere before God yea and so visibly declared and manifested to be before men in respect of their persoÌ„s notwithstanding all the evilles in their Church Communion and ordinances Your 5. exception viz that your ministers convert men not as Pastours but as teachers is neyther our errour nor assertion but your owne misconstruction This we hould that the conversion of men with you is no way to be ascribed to your office which it justifieth not but to the truthes of God taught amoÌ„gst you by the special blessing of God vpon them notwithstanding the other evills wherewith they are mingled inseparably amongst you To your demand what idoll you worship bycause we affirm your Church to stand in an adulterous estate I do answer that you may stand in an adulterous estate though you worship the true God onely if you do it after a devised maner as in deed you do in your government ministery service-book and ceremonyes which being all properly matters of religion and not commanded by the Lord are devises of your own against the 2. commaundement which forbids nothing but idolatry Your 7. insimulation against vs is that wee cannot say certeynly by any warrant of Gods word that any of you have eyther fayth or feare of God Wherein you consure vs as having lost the feeling of former grace and all true charity Mr Smyth in his Parallels shewes your fraud evil dealing with him in this case whom you name in your margent And I further adde that I do not onely in the generall beleeve there are many such but am so perswaded in the particular of many I know Yet so to say certainly of any of you I caÌ„not nor of our selves neyther by the word of God A man can say this onely of himself certaynly bycause he onely knowes his
196. 197. 198. 199. 200. 201. 202. 203. 204. 205. 206. 207. 208. 209. 210. 211. 212. 213. 214. 222. 223. 224. 225. 226. 227. 228 229. 230. 231. 232. 223. 234. 238. 229. 240. 241. 242. 243. 244. 245. Of popish ceremonies conformity vnto them p. 25. 27 65. Of circumstances p. 21. 2â— 33 37. and the manner of doeing things pa. 369 370. The communion in the Church most entyre p. 233. 234. Great care to be taken that it be holy and lawfull pag 133. 254. 255. Of Compulsion to religion how it hurts it pag 275. 298. 299. 300. 301. 302. 459. The Ch of Engl so therefore not rightly gathered after the Romish Apostacy pag 292. 300 301. 302. 303 304. Of Collections and Consequences p. 32. 45. Contentions alwayes in the Clâ—â— pag 55. 56. E Of the power of the Lord Iesus for excoÌ„munication the reformation of abuses pa 32 â—3 Given to every true particular Church pag 267. An essentiall property pag 347. 348. 349. 350. 351. Persons not vnder it with out p. 100. 101 Difference between it and separation p 124. F Fayth and repentance not to be stinted pa. 23. 24. All things must be done in fayth pag. 18. 28. and in things doubtfull suspend pa 19 34. Of Fundamentall truthes such as are necessary to salvation pa 31. 32. 376. 448 449. 450. 451. G The difference betwixt civil and ecclesiastical government and governours p 135. 136 137. 164 165. 166. 168. See Christs kingdom Church-government a mere Church-service p. 217. 137. 225. I. How wâ—e the Iewes one pa 196. 211. Their extraordinary priveledges p 248. No separation from that Church p. 250. Their government no pattern for ours p 174. 194. 195. 196. 197. 198. Their Synagogues not as our Churches now pa 427. Excommunication or dissynagogueing amongst them no divine spirituall and distinct ordinance p 187. 188. 189. 190. Of things indifferent p. 25. 27. their vnseasonable vse p. 36. 37. K. Keyes of the kingdome of heaven given to the whole Ch pag. 146. 147. 148. 149. 150. 152 153. in what order 399. 400. â—â—5 L. Lawes ecclesiasticall in Engl pag. 20. 21. binde and loose the conscience pag 264. 265. 39. M. Ministery left by Christ p. 192. 356. Vnlawfull Ministers not to be coÌ„municated with what truths soever they teach pa 17. 79. 80. 162. 163. Difference in the administring of doctrine and disciplyne pa 165. 151. 234. 238. The Ministery of Engl disproved and the Reasons for it answered pag 162. 163. 173. 174. 175. 265. 266. 346. 356. 357. 358. 359. 360. 361. 362 363. 364. 370. 377. 378. 379. 385. 386. 389. 390. True ordinary Ministers tyed to a particular assembly pa 393. 394. 395. True Ministers cannot be in a false Church pa 360. 361. Conversion of men to God no note of a true Minister pa 10 11 51. 69. 379. 380. 381. 382. 383. 384. 385. The Ministers in Engl all of the same constitutioÌ„ pa 351. 352. Theires and the Romish Ministery the same in respect of the office power to administer it and most of the works pa 358. 359. 411. Preaching of the gospel no part or property of the Ministery in Engl but a thing casuall p. 353. 354. 355. Of the calling of Ministers wherin the peoples right is pro ved Mr B objections answered p. 144. 145 146. 360. 361. 365. 367. 371 376. Ministers by their office not to celebrate mariage nor buâ—y the dead p. 438. 439. Their maintenance p. 439. 440. O. Of offence p. 18. 19. 37. 39. Officers not simply necessary for the publique administratioÌ„s in the Church pag 137. 138. 139 144. 165. 166. 167. The brethren out of office not mere private persons p 423. 424. Of the officers vsurpation p. 367. 368. 367. 132. 133. Ordination may in cases be performed by such as are no officers pa. 400. 401. 402 423. Ordination Baptism vnâ—â—tly compared p 413. See Baptism P Praetence of peace pa 13. 14. 15. Of pollution by other menns â—â—nns and how it comes pag. 244. 245. 249 254 256 259. Of preaching or publishing the gospel pa 70. 71. 72. 73. The true Church gathered by it onely See Church How a note of the Church See word The coÌ„stitutioÌ„ of the Church it deceitfully opposed p. 37. See Church Of profession of fayth prosessours p. 7. Profession makes not a Church pag. 452. The profession of fayth required by the scriptures p 90. 91. 270 271. 272. 274. That in Engl compared with it p. 58. 91. 274. 275. 316. 450. 451. Of prophesying out of office p. 235 238. R Reformation to begin at our selves so to passe to others p. 24. 133. Praeposterous reformation in Engl made and desired pa 300. 301. The people interessed in the reformation of publique scandalls in their Church in their places as well as the officers p. 142. 143. 164. 165 170. 242. 343. as also in other Church affayres p. 190. 200 201 204. See OrdinatioÌ„ Mat. 18. 17. exp S. Sacraments do not constitute a Church but presuppose a Ch constituted pa 91. 283. 284. how notes of the Church p. 317. 342. 343. 344. not given by the Lord to any parish Ch in Engl p. 319. 320 Of their Ministration in England p. 91. 92. 93. 425. Of Saints saintship p. 107. 108 1. 1. Of succession see Ordination T Of the Temples by Mr Bern called their Churches p. 440. 441. 442 443. 445. 446. W. How the Word of God makes notes out the Church p. 89 315. 447. Of the Worship in the Church of Engl p. 424 425. 426. 427. 429. 430. The vse of their devised leitourgy is not the true manner of worshipping God neyther can Mr. Ber or the Ministers justify it pa 425. 426. 428. 429. 466. to the end Errata  pag. l. For contradictions read contraries pag. 42. l. 20. For approbation read exprobration 62. 15. for svvord read head 89. 21. read with Zerubbabel 94. 29. for discharged read dischurched 107. 6. for discharging read dischurching 128. 19. for Ioseph r Pharaoh 175. 17 for of read or 176. 27. for quality r quantity 195. 36. for endeavours r endeavourers 209. last line for false read true 359. 1. for Eph r Epist 422. 25. r be in the 433. 16. for the read your 435. 9. r would not allow 435. 16. for praeservation r prevention 443. 14 r would know the 446. 26. for converted r vnconverted 457. 34. for Papists r popish 465. 12. The Printer to the Reader I Gentle Reader Sundry other faults in the printing are escaped in words letters poynts wherof some shal be amended to thy hands the rest in the reading help thy self by the sense or otherwise Impute not the Printers faults to the Authour but recken the most and greatest myne and the least and smallest his Rev. 3. 16. †Levit. 9. 24. 1 King 18. 38. †◠Thes. 5. â—1 I. II. * Ier. 24. â— 2. 3. two baskets III. †Prov. 24. 23. * â—â—m 2.
that can be brought but because they are yours which notwithstanding I am perswaded neyther you nor any other can satisfie And if Mr B. himselfe thus wryte and speak in private why blames he vs for our publique testimony Now if the Bishops be Antichristian and so the spirit of Divils Rev. 16. 14. why might not Mr Barrow affirm theyr Ministery and ministration to be of and by the Divill and what are they but eyther the tayl or some other lim of the beast And for theyr excommunications by name it is evident by this they are not of God for that the most religious in the kingdome make least account of them For theyr Luciferian pryde whereof Mr Barrow accuseth them it is apparant they burden the earth threaten the heavens with it for their hateful Symony both in giving and receiving they are so notorious as the best service Mr B. can do them in this case is to turn mens thoughts from those evils which every ey sees every heart abhorrs Towching the Ghost the Bishop gives in his blasphomous imitation of Christ Ioh. 20. 22. except contrary to the rule in nature nihil dâ—â— quod non habet he can give that he hath not it is not very likely he should give the Holy Ghost why then might not Mr Barrow call it an vnholy Ghost And for the Bible in the Bishops hands which he gives his Preists in ordination Mr Barrow calls it the libell not in contempt of the book but in reproof of the ceremony that iustly since the Lord never appointed the scriptures for any such vse nor any such ceremony in the ordination of his Ministers Christ and the Apostles would have such Ministers ordeyned as have the Bibles in their hearts the Bishops of England to supply this want give it into the hands of their Preists which they think sufficient though in truth the most of them are more vsed to handle a paire of cardes vpon an alebench then the holy bible Your Patrons Mr Barrow calles great Baals Lord Patrons and iustly in respect of that Lordly power they vse in obtruding their Clerks vpon the Parish assemblies your ministers yea all and every one of them Preists which is their proper name given them both in your book of ordination and coÌ„mon prayer your Deacons half-preists according to the nature of their office betwixt which the Deacons office in the new testament Act. 6. 1. 2. 3. 4. there is no consimilitude For the other more harsh termes wherewith he enterteynes such persons and things in the Church as carry with them most appearance of holynes they are to be interpreted according to his meaning and a distinction vsed by Mr B. in another place is here to be applyed Which is that Mr Barrow speaks not of these persons and things simply but in a respect so so considered so no one terme given by Mr Barrow to my knowledg but may at the least be tolerated The Ministers as they receive the wages of vnrighteousnes oâ— counsayl to spiritual fornication are Bâ—lâ—â—mites in respect of thâ—ir office vowed to destruction Cananites as they plead for confusion Babylonish divines as they endeavour to stay Gods people in Egypt spiritually so called Egyptian inchaunters as they are members of the Hierarchy 〈◊〉 of the Divel by vertue whereof he bear great sway as the reformists amongst you have expresly testifyed And for your very divine exerciseâ— of prayer preaching sacrâ—â—â—tâ— suâ—ging of psalâ—s howsoever they be good holy in theÌ„selves or at leasâ— have much good in them yet in respect of the vnhallowed coÌ„munion forgâ—d ministâ—ry and superstitious order wherein these and all other things with you are ministred and exercised they are lyable to the heaviest censure Mr Barrow hath put vpon them And for the most forward preachers in the kingdom considering their vnsound and broken courses in denying that in deed and practise which in wâ—rd and writing they profâ—sse to be the revealâ—d will oâ— God and inviolable testament of Christ binding his Church for ever yea and practising the contrary in the face of the sâ—nne commiâ—tâ—â—g two evils forsaking the Lord the fountayne of lâ—ving water to dig themselves broken pitâ—s which will hold no water yea not onely refusing themselves to enter into the kingdome of God the Church but also hindering them that would persecuting them that do and lastly considering them in their vnconscionable defence for their own standings and practises as that onely the godly in the parish are of the Church with them that they hold and vse their ministery by the acceptation of the people and not by the Bishops that they obey the Bishops in their citations suspensions excommunications and absolutions aâ— they are civil magistrates and â—he like they do deserve a sharper medicine then happily they are willing to endure Yea the very personall graces of knowledge zeale pâ—â—ience the like manifested in many both ministers and people are most vniustly perverted and misused to the obduration and hardening both of the persons themselves others in most deceivable wayes wherein the deepest mistery of iniquity and most effectuall delusion of Satan that can be worketh as is by Mr Barrow and others clearly discovered But that Mr Barrow should say that the preaching of Gods word â—â—e spirits effectuall working should make men the children of hell and two fold â—orse then bâ—fore is a great slaunder and could not possibly enter into his or any other godly mans heart And so I leave these and the like more vnsavoury-seeming speaches of Mâ— Barrow to the wise and Christian readers charitable interpretation The last rank of Mr B. reasons followeth which respect the matter of our sepâ—â—â—tion by him called schisme which how materiall they are shall appeare in their place Our first errour according to his reckoning is They hold that the constitution of our Church is a falsâ— constitution And let vs see how strongly your answer forces vs from this our hold 1. Arg. They cannot prove this simply by any playne doctrine of scripture and that which they would prove is but onely respectively and so may any thing and their Church also be condemned 2. Arg. It is against the evidence of the scriptures which maketh the word externall profession and sacraments the visible constitution c. That you then affirm in the first place is that wee cannot prove this simply by any playne doctrine wherein you do half confesse that wee do it by iust consequence though not by playne doctrine wholly that respectively and so so considered as you speak your coÌ„stitution is false And thus you say any thing may be condemned But first it is not true that any thing may be condemned after this sort The constitutioÌ„ of the Ch Apostolike could in no coÌ„sideration be condemned neyther could ours to our knowledge being according to that pattern how weakly soever we walk in it Secondly
worship of God and being neyther the preaching of the word nor the sacraments nor prayer must needs be the true word of God so you must prove theÌ„ or els the truth of your assertioÌ„ is disproved Touching your discourse of the order of Gods worship before in and after the Apostles tyme I observe to let passe other particulars your errour in making the particular Synagogues of the Iewes as the particular Churches are now The Synagogues were not entyre Churches of themselves but partes or members of the nationall Ch neyther could they haue vse of the most solemn parts of Gods worship as were then the sacrifices neyther could the cheif Ministers in the Church execute their office in them but as they depended vpon the temple in Ierusalem so were the people to cary their offerings thither and there to enjoy these ministrations But particular congregations now do stand in no such dependancy they may enjoy within themselves the word sacraments and prayer which are the most solemn services in the Ch now and so by consequence all the rest In deed it is with your parrish assemblyes somewhat as it was with the Synagogues they cannot enjoy the Ministers by and from within themselves nor have the vse of ecclesiasticall government but must depend vpon their Ierusalems the Bishops Chappels and Consistories for these their most solemn and peculiar administrations Mr B in his 2. book to prove their worship true worship pretends 3 distinct ArgumeÌ„ts The first bycause it is according to the word of God 2. bycause it is not forbidden in the scripture 3. bycause it is after the manner of the worship of the true Churches of God set downe in the word An other man would have comprehended these three reasons in one and so might Mr Ber. have done well enough considering his confirmation of them wherein he brings not so much as one scripture or reason from scripture to prove their prescript leyturgy by man devised and imposed of which our mayn quaest on is to be according to the word of God c. onely in the 3. Argument he toucheth an obiection which he calles a conceyt of ours viz that it quencheth the spirit to which he gives a double answer First that it is agaynst known experience 2. that it is the groundwork of Mr Smith casting of reading the scriptures in the assembly Other things he speaks are not worth the insisting vpon let vs consider of his answers To the former of them touching known experience I do reply two things first that the experience of supposed good in a course or by meanes not warrantable by the written word of God is of all godly wise men to be suspected 2 though the experience of good be certayn yet must men take heed they honour not one thing for an other as the means of that good but they must put difference between that which is good and that which is evill in the same compound action Many do avouch they have wrought in them much hatred of murder treason and the like evils by a stage-play others that their devotion is much furthered by organ musick and the chaunting of quiresters yea by the prayers in a tongue they vnderstand not all these will alledge their knâ—wn experience But to leave these things The Apostle Paul 1 Cor. 14. testifyeth that a man speaking a strange language may â—diâ—y himself though not the Church and though he pray in a strange tongue without the vnderstanding or benefit of the Church yet that his spiâ—â—t may pray Might such a man therefore alledge his known experience for prayer in a strange tongue contrary to the Apostles expresse inhibition neyther is it any justification of the service book in the vse we speak of that people do in the reading of it find by experience their affectioÌ„s furthered God may doth therein honor the simple honest affectioÌ„s of his people so far as to receive the request of their heart which he seeth in secret covering in mercy the outward manner of putting vp the same wherein they of ignorance or infirmity fayl And that these stinted and devised forms do quench the spirit of prayer appears in that they deprive the Church minister of that liberty of the spirit of prayer which God would haue the vse stinting the Minister yea all the Ministers in the kingdom to the same measure of the spirit not onely one with an other but all of them with him that is dead and rotteÌ„ and so stinting the spirit which the Lord gives his Ministers for his Church and that so strictly as till the stint be out it may not suggest one thought or word otherwise or when it is out one more then is praescribed The manifestation of the spirit sayth the Apostle is given to every man to profit withall But in the reading of a praescript forme of prayer there is not the manifestation of the spirit of the minister given him to profit the Church withall but the manifestation of of the spirit of him that devised and penned the service book Now for M Ber 2 Answ namely that this conceipt of ours saying that set prayer quencheth the spirit is the groundwork of Mr Smithes casting of reading the scriptures in the assemblyes first he wrongeth M. Smyth who doth not deny the reading of the scriptures in the assembly but that the reading of them is properly a part of Gods worship 2. Not our conceipt but his own ill collection is the groundwork of his errour Let the indifferent reader iudge whither this consequence be good or no. Bycause the reading of the Apocrypha Prayers of the Bishops of Rome or of England or their Chapleyns for prayer quencheth the spirit or is not the true manner of prayer which Christ hath left therefore the reading of the Canonicall scriptures penned by the Prophets and Apostles for reading quencheth the spirit and is no part of Gods worship Other observations M Ber hath in his Answer some nothing to the purpose and others against himself as for example The Iewes in the ould Testament did meet together at set times commaunded by the Lord so did the Churches of Christ in the new or the first day of the week Ergo the Church of England doth wel in meeting at set times yea holy times not commaunded by the LORD and that farre more solemnly then on the first or LORDS day 2. The Iewes had preaching every Lords day in every Synagogueâ— therefore the Church of Engl is in good estate where there is no preaching or as good as none in one parish of ten on the Lords day or at other tymes 3. The Iewish Church had singing of the Psalmes of David and of other propheticall men and Christ himself did vse the same therefore the Church of England doth coÌ„mmendably in singing besides them the Apocrypha songs of men ful of errours and vanities as that the Saints and Angels in
that the people of Iudah were Gods true Church before the tyme of that oth and Covenant it is true and agaynst you And I would demaund of you whether your people were Gods true Church when Popery reigned Your answer is so may our people bee You dare not say they were for then you should acknowledge the Romish Synagogue the true Church of GOD and that you had sinfully schismed from it as Mr Bern. proves agaynst you and himselfe you will not say they were not for that would make against you in the poynt in hand and would manifest as in deed it doth that the course taken with Iudah being the true Church for her reformation cannot agree with Rome or Engl as a member of the Romish Church for her reformation To that which is added in the 3. place of Coventry Northampton and some other congregations my reply is first that this is not likely to have been the deed of the congregations but of some two or three forward ministers a few of the people it may be approving of it which their successours were as like to reverse 2. They did not repent of their publique idolatry nor purpose to obey the truth in sincerity of their prophane mixture Romish hierarchy and ministery popish leyturgy and constitutions according to which all things are administred amongst them they repented not and besides they knew right well many truthes which they purposed not to imbrace 3. graunt it were as they pretend with these few parishes what must be sayd of the rest which did not so practise with whom they make and alwayes have done one entyre nationall Church or what is this to the publique and formall state of the Church of England agaynst which we deale The truth is these men thus practising were reputed and truely schismatiques in the formall constitution of the Church and by which this their dealing hath no warrant at all If we should object vnto you the Papists doctrines and practises of two or three ministers amongst you not warrantable by law you would not admit of our exception agaynst the formall established estate of your Church so neyther may we admit of yours for the practise of two or three disliking the present state of things and seeking for reformation of them Lastly wee see indeed that those Ministers doubt not to affirme that the whole land Papists and Atheists and all did in the first Parliament of the Queen enter a solemn covenant for renouncing of Popery and receiving the gospel but we would see first how all these swarmes of wicked Atheists and most flagitious persons were by the revealed will of God capable of the covenant of the new testament and the seales and other rites and priviledges of it Otherwise this haling them into covenant with the Lord agaynst his expresse will was a prophane presumptuous enterprise in it self though I doubt not arising from a godly intent in the Queen her cheif connsellers being mislead by them whom they too much trusted 2. We would see what warrant there is in the new testament for this nationall covenant or that all the people in a Land since the Land of Canaan was prophaned should unite into a nationall Church vnder a nationall government and ministery 3. That which wee answered in the 2. place to the former branch of this exception must here agayn be remembred 4. this vndoubted affirmation of the ministers touching the whole lands covenanting in the Parliament first inferreth that the enacting of civil lawes and penall statutes by Kings and States doth gather CHVRCHES for none other covenant was there in the Parliament 2. It confirmeth the popish doctrine of implicite fayth that men may receive and professe a fayth whereof they are ignorant yea which they dislike and hate so farre as they know it for so was it with the body of your nation the greatest part by farr being mere naturall men and so not knowing the gospel yea evil doers which hate the light Our 2. objection touching the outward worship wherein the Ch of England communicateth comes now to be enforced In the clearing of which the Ministers do to speak on insist onely vpon their stinted set formes of prayer for the justification of which they bring sundry scriptures as Numb 6. 2. 3. 24. Deut. 26. 3. 15. Psal. 22. 1. 92. Luk. 11. 2. Now for our more orderly proceeding I will reduce the things they say to three generall heads vnder which I will consider of the particulars shewing how in all and every of them they are mistaken First in that they do confound and make all one ordinance Blessings Psalmes and Prayers 2. In misinterpreting the scriptures they bring to prove a set and stinted form of words to be imposed in prayer 3. In concluding as they do that if Moses and Christ might appoynt and impose a certayn form of words to be vsed for prayer that then the Bishops in England or others may vse the same power and appoint an other form of words so to be vsed Of these three in order And first it is evident that howsoever some kinde of blessing and prayer be all one and so may be confounded yet that solemn kinde of blessing spoken of Numb 6. and which the PATRIARKS and PREISTS did vse in their places was cleane of an other nature In prayer the MINISTER stands in place of the PEOPLE and in their name offers vp petitions and thanksgiving to GOD But in blessing the Minister stands in the place of God and in his name pronounceth a blessing or mercy vpon the people 2. Whereas this duety of prayer may be performed by one equall to another by an inferiour to a superiour yea by a mā to himself that other of blessing is alwayes from the greater to the lesser and therefore the Apostle to the Hebrews to shew that the Preisthood of Melchi-sedek was more excellent then that of Levi proves it by this that Melchisedec blessed Abraham taking this for granted without all contradiction that the lesse is blessed of the greater 3. Mr Ber himself in this book makes prayer one thing and the blessing pronounced vpon the people when they departed another thing as he also makes singing of psalmes a third distinct thing from them both as there is cause he should For first the Apostle writing to the Corinthians of the divers giftes and administrations in the Church speaketh thus I wil pray with the spirit but I will pray with the vnderstanding also I will sing with the spirit but I will sing with the vnderstanding also Answerable vnto which is that in Iames Is any among you afflicted let him pray is any merry let him sing both the one and other Apostle making singing and praying distinct exercises Ad vnto this that whereas in praying we are to speak onely vnto God it is otherwise in singing where we are taught to speak vnto