doctrine is to be adiudged to come of lying as that which sauoureth against the truth of the Churches of the Apostles of Christ and of God Our doctrine proued to be true by the Successiō of the Apostolique Churche Now concerning our Churches it is euident that we agree with the original and mother Churches which were planted by the Apostles For we agree in faith with the Churche of Rome which was planted by the most blessed Apostles S. Peter and S. Paule and alwaies kepte her Succession til this present daie and therefore our doctrine is true But you agree in faith with no Churche at al now extant in the worlde which came from the Apostles and therefore your doctrine by the rule of Tertullian is false and lying Whiles he then disputed with Heretikes as we doo now with you he said either these Heretikes confesse that they beganne since the Apostles time and they are false teachers or if any of them dare intrude them selues into the Apostles age Edant origines Ecclesiarum suarum then let them bring forth the beginninges or shew the original euidences of their Churches let them vnfold the order of their Bishops so ronning along from the beginning by Succession that he who is the first Bishop had for his founder and predecessour one of the Apostles or of the Apostolike men who continued til the ende with the Apostles in the same faith Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae census suos deferunt For by this way the Apostolike churches do shew forth along their publike registers At length hauing brought forth the examples of the Churche of Smyrna and of the Churche of Rome and of other like Churches he concludeth thus confidenly Consingant tale aliquid Haeretic◠let the Heretiques feine some suche matter He bad them feme For he wel knewe in truth they coulde shew no suche Succession I haue then shewed that Tertullian spake not of Heretikes who lacked the pretense of Gods worde M. Ievvels Doctrine is proued by Tertulliā erroneus for lacke of Succession proued but of them who had no Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne age And one such Succession of Bishoppes in any one Church of al the worlde seing M. Iewel can not bring forth it remaineth that he is an Heretike and that his Doctrine is erroneus false and heretical Iewel Tertullian saith not vnto vs but vnto you and suche as you be let them shevv forth the Originals of their Churches Harding Is that al he saith M. Iewel Why went you not forth to the next wordes The Scrolles or rolles of Bishops names Let them vnfold the order of their Bishoppes He calleth it vnfolding bicause the Bishoppes names were vsed to be kept and written in order in long Rolles the whiche Rolles must be vnfolded when they are to be read He meant not therefore such Originals M. Iewel as you imagine to wit particular examples of this or that facte but he meant the Original copies or instrumentes and euidences of founding and planting of their Churche who it was that preached the Faith first vnto them and who was their first Bishop who the second who the third and so forth vntil the present time Iewel Euen so vve say vnto you shevv vs the Originals of your doctrine Harding You say not euen right so as Tertullian said For he called not for the Originals of Doctrine but of Churches Originals of Churches For by the Churches the Doctrine is knowen to be good or euil to be allowable or reproueable Iewel Shevv vs any one of the Apostles of Christe or of the learned Catholike Doctours of the Churche that euer said your priuate Masse Shevv one at the lest either Greeke or Latine Harding It was not that which Tertullian required He demaunded only for the Originals of Churches and for the order and Succession of Bishops But for that you durst not cal knowing that we could shew how S. Augustine conuerted vs being sent into England from S. Gregorie the Pope whiche Pope S. Gregorie succeded S. Peter in his Chaier Thus we can shew the Originals of our Churches bringing them from the Catholike Bishops whiche are yet aliue M. Ievvslyly diuerteth from the present matter to an other mater impertinent touching priuate Masse vpward vntil S. Peter But you are fallen away from the matter of Succession which only Tertullian presseth and are now come to demaunde of a particular facte whether any Apostle or olde Father euer said priuat Masse or no. I say al of them might haue said priuate Masse and that I proue by Tertullians reason and rule bicause the vse of saying priuate Masse came to vs time out of minde by Succession without any change or innouation noted therin by any storie or Chronicle And yet was ther neuer any strange or new thing receiued and vsed in the Churche but that great trouble came thereof as now there doth of your changing of Religion the whiche trouble of Churches and common Weales is at no time omitted in the stories of that age wherein it falleth But now seing the vse of saying priuat Masse came so peaseably to vs from hand to hand and no first author thereof can be shewed it is out of al controuersie that it was euer accompted a Godly and a lawful thing But what neede I now to repeate that I haue already written in that argument Answer that parte of my booke better to the purpose then yet ye haue donne whiche treateth of that point where many plaine euidences be brought forth of Sole Receiuing Sole Receiuing in the Primitiue Churche In my ansvvere Art 1. and likevvise in my first Reioindre Aug. Epi. 165. whiche Sole Receiuing is the onely thing for whiche you reproue priuate Masse as you cal it It is cleare that S. Chrysostom and certaine others said Masse and yet had no man to receiue with them as I haue other where declared I thinke not good now to fal into that Disputation againe and therefore here I wil cal you home to the present Argument of Succession Iewel Pag. 128. 129. S. Augustine saith of so many Bishops of Rome there could not one be found that had benne a Donatiste Euen so in like sorte say vve to you of al the same Bishops of Rome there can not be one found that euer agreed vvith M. Harding in saying Masse Or if there vvere any such shevv his name vvith other Circumstances vvhen and vvhere and vvho vvere vvitnesses of the doing Shevv vs your Originals M. Harding Confesse the Truth deceiue vs no longer It is a nevv deuise ye haue it only of your selues and not by Succession from the Apostles Harding You pretend to reason like S. Augustine as though he had reasoned vpon a particular facte and not vpon the Doctrine Euen so in like sorte say you and it is not euen so nor in like sorte S. Augustine concluded that the Donatistes were Heretikes S. Augustines
al to be folowed in your deedes For he that dissenteth from you Doctrine is either an Heretique or a Schismatique These wordes being wel and duely considered of I reporte me to thine indifferent iudgement discrete Reader what M. Iewel can seme to any wise man to haue wonne by Iohannes Sarisburiensis He accuseth the vices of the Romaine Clergie and of some Popes them selues We also accuse the same Their euil deedes be not to be folowed saith he We saie the same and praie God to amende them Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Church of Rome said the people in his time Were it true yet were they to be obeied touching doctrine and to be beleeued bicause they sate in the Chaire of Peter as Christ cōmaunded the Scribes and Pharisees of the Iewes to be obeied and thinges to be done and kepte whiche they said bicause they succeeded Moyses and sate in Moyses Chaire Howbeit what the people of Rome of Italie and of Germanie said of the Pope at that time it ought the lesse to be regarded bicause they spake vpon grudge conceiued against him the Romaines Platina in vita Hadriani ◠for that as Platina witnesseth he denied them their ernest request which was that they might liue freely vnder the gouernement of the Consulles and be exempted from their subiection to the Church the Italians and Germains for that they were muche vexed with warres by William the King of Sicilia and Frederike the firste Emperour from whiche vexation and troubles they saw they should haue benne deliuered if the Pope woulde haue benne content to suffer the Landes of the Churche to be inuaded and taken awaie by those Princes Euen so in these daies the Popes be the worse spoken of and finde the lesse good wil at many mennes handes in some partes of Christendome bicause they can not be induced to allow and confirme the possession of certaine ecclesiastical Landes which haue ben taken frō the Church by vnlawful meanes in such wise as they them selues would haue it allowed and confirmed To be short agree with vs M. Iewel vnto the doctrine which the Church of Rome teacheth where the Succession is certaine wherunto your owne doctor Ioannes Sarisburiensis leadeth you and we wil agree with you in reprouing the vices and faultes of that See the proufe of which for a great part of them for ought ye can shewe is vncertaine Would God ye would once consider how sclender and weake the Argumentes ye make against the catholique Faith are which alwaies ye deduce à moribus ad doctrinam that is from reproufe of manners to the reproufe of doctrine Iewel Pag. 132. This is M. Hardings holy succession though faith faile yet Succession must holde Harding Nay syr Succession doth holde that faith maye not faile For you haue not proued by any one example that faith did euer faile in the Churche of Rome In the Church I saye which consisteth of the Pope and of a college and an assemblie of graue Bishops and priestes professing them selues the faith and teaching it others In that open assemblie neuer was there false religiō decred or taught whereas so many heresies haue ben not fewer then a hundred and so many Archeheretikes of whom some haue ben in the other Patriarchal Sees but in Rome neuer was there an Archeheretike or any Pope who in Councel or Consistorie decreed or confirmed any heresie to be admitted To him that knoweth the ecclesiastical histories and conferreth the See of Rome with al other Churches it is such a miracle as therby God hath witnessed that Succession to be the Rocke of the faith In so much that the Bishops of the prouince of Tarracon in Spaine wrote thus vnto Pope Hilarius In Tom. 1. Concil epist 2. Ad fidem recurrimus Apostolico orè laudatam inde responsa quaerentes vnde nihil errore nihil praesumptione sed pontificali totum deliberatione praecipitur We resort vnto the faith praysed by the mouth of the Apostle seeking answers from thence whence nothing is commaunded by errour nothing by presumption but al by bishoply deliberation Iewel For vnto the succession God hath bound the holy Ghost Harding No but vnto the holy Ghost The holy Ghost causeth the Successiō to abide faithful God hath bound the Succession For he causeth the Succession to abide faithful bicause he causeth it to follow the inspiration of the holy Ghost that it may so be knowen for euer certainly true in the chiefe Apostles Chaire and in the fellowship abiding with him Christ saith he that heareth you Luc. 10. heareth me I am with you al dayes vntil the worldes ende Math. 28. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Luc. 22. and thou being once conuerted confirme thy brethern feede my sheepe Ioan. 21. feede my lambes I wil beseeche my father Ioan. 14. and he shal geue you an other conforter that he remaine with you for euer 16. the spirite of truth he shal teach you al thinges and al truth The Romaine faith is preached in the whole worlde Roma 1. Iewel For lacke of this Succession for that in our Sees in the Churches of England vve find not so many Idolatours Necromancers Heretikes Aduouterers Churcherobbers Periured persones Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisees as vve may easily finde in the Church of Rome therefore I trovve M. Harding saith vve haue no Succession vve are no Bishops vve haue no Church at al. Harding Your Church of England hath yet scant continued so many weekes as the Churche of Rome hath continued yeres But if it had passed ouer such times of persecution as Rome hath if it had ben so assaulted by al sortes of enemies as wel within as without as wel with prosperitie as aduersitie I trow your Church would haue had before this as many Idolatours Necromancers Heretiques Aduouterers and such others by you named as the Church of Rome hath had Bishops And certainely already it hath had mo sortes of Heretikes and that within these xx yeres then Rome hath had euen by your owne accompte euil men within these fiften hundred yeres Idolatrie annexed vnto Heresie For your beginning progresse and the whole profession of your life is nothing but heresie whereunto Idolatrie is euermore annexed For an heretike doth alwaies worship his owne conceit and phantasie for truth and whereas God is truth he worshippeth his phantasie for God which is Idolatrie If the pope committed any faulte by frailtie he defended it not as you mainteine in open pulpites the breache of laudable and godly vowes and the marriages of consecrated persons who haue absteined from marriage euer since the Apostles tyme whose marriages saith S. Hierome be not so much Aduouteries Aduersus Iouin li. 1. as Inceste But in the number of mo then two hundred Popes within fiften hundred yeres you haue falsely numbred sixe or seuen as Heretikes whereas you can not denie but there haue ben in the same
Succession aboue thirtie martyrs who died for Christes sake and as many confessours or moe whom al the good men in the Church haue accompted for holy and blessed men There was neuer general Coūcel holden by catholique Bishops which did not cōmunicate with that See and reioysed to be honoured and cōfirmed by it From S. Peters time to our age you cannot name any one daie or howre marcke wel M. Iewel you can not name one daie or howre I say in which any knowen Catholike Bishop in al the world did or might euer say with the approbation of good men I defie or I despise or I do not communicate with the Church of Rome how soeuer some one Pope might seeme not cōmendable yet the Church the faith the Doctrine the Succession was euer commended of al Catholike men To that See appealed and resorted as to the chiefe Light of the Church a Li. 3. c. 3. Irenaeus b De Praes Tertullian c Lib. 2. Optatus d Ad Siriciū ep 81 S. Ambrose e Ad. Damasum S. Hierome f Epi. 165. S. Augustine g De vocat gent. li. 2. c. 16. Prosper with al the fathers besides That See promoted the Gospel into the endes of the world into England Scotlād Ireland Denmarcke the low Countrie Germanie Polonia Lituania Prussia Liuonia Hungaria Bohemia Bulgaria and presently into the new founde Landes That See conquered al heresies cōfounded them and al their authours and mainteiners from Simon Magus to Martine Luther and Ihon Caluin who now beginneth to be brought very lowe and by Gods wil shal be brought lower shortely the follie and rebellious sprite which his Doctrine breedeth in his adherentes breaking out and shewing it selfe daily to the world more and more See M. Iewel you and your fellowes are as sore a fraid as euer was the gilty theefe of his iudge or the naughty boye of his maister But do I say trow you that ye therfore haue no Succession or that yee are no Bishops and haue no Church bicause in your Churches of England there are not to be founde so many Idolatours so many Necromācers so many Heretiques Aduouteres Churcherobbers Periured persons Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisees as many easily be founde in the Church of Rome Nay I trow M. Iewel you take your marke amisse For if I thought so as it pleaseth you to thinke of me I would not haue denied you neither Succession such as it is nor Bishops nor Churches or rather Congregations nor Ministers nor Minstrels neither for the better furnishing of them withal if these so many worthy qualities could worke so great an effecte For that I speake not here of Heretikes The clergie of these nevv cōgregatiōs vvherby Successiō is claimed and so cōsequently of Idolatours which faulte is common to you al what aduouterers whoremasters Incestuous persons Churche robbers Church breakers Periured persons Mankillers Renegates Abiured men Friers Apostates Lecherous Munkes Tapsters Hostlers Pedlers Tinckers Coblers Summoners Viceplayers Deuil Players Fellons Horse stealers Newgate menne briefly what vile and rascal rable want ye to fournish vp your Succession your bishoprikes your Synagogues and Ministring roumes withal Verely if this geare could make a Succession it shal soone be made good that ye haue also a Succession such as it is And ye neede not to mistrust any whit at al hauing so many of euery sorte as shal be more then inough for you Marie put these away out of your congregations I would cal them Churches were not that name to good for you I feare me you would leaue but a poore seely clergie behinde See hovv M. Ievvel vvil proue his so many Idolatours c. In the Church of Rome But how easy is it trow you M. Iewel to find so many Idolatours in the Churche of Rome as you beare vs in hande there may be founde Doth one poore facte of S. Marcellinus alone for the whiche he repented foorthwith and dyed a glorious Martyr of God make vp with you so many Idolatours I am wel assured that if you could haue found but one Pope more that had done the like you would not haue spared him your modestie is such but he should haue ben scored vp also to make vp your number of so many Idolatours Be it that Syluester was a Necromancer So many Necromācers and Hildebrand too who was of that crime as of many other vntruly sclaundered by his enemies that could not abide to heare of any correction for their enormous faultes and therefore spited that good Pope as you doo al the Popes wil yet those two make such a number of Necromancers in that See that it were a very easy matter to finde so many as you would gladly make your Readers beleeue there were Be it that Liberius Leo Coelestinus Honorius So many heretikes and Ihon the 22. holding priuate opinions without open maintenance of them had ben Heretikes as you most sclaunderously reporte them out of baudye Bale and braine-sicke Illyricus yet these fiue make not so great a number pardy that it should be an easy thing for you to finde so many Heretikes in the See of Rome as ful rhetorically you set the matter forth Now with what face pretende you vnto the worlde that it is an easy matter to finde so many Heretiques emong the Bishops of Rome whereas with long prying and pooring in al your brethrens bookes you could finde but fiue to whom you durst to impute that crime of whiche yet three are vniustly sclaundered and the other two only misliked for their priuate assertions and neuer denounced Heretikes for stubborne maintenance or making any open Decree touching that whereof once they erroneously iudged But yet you wil saie that among the Bishops of Rome there were many Aduouterers So many aduouterers c many Church Robbers many Periured persons many Mankillers many Renegates It is happy M. Iewel that your worde is no sclaunder But I pray you good sir how many can you truly name of al these For of so great a number as you speak of it is wel likely you can name some and your malice is such against the Popes that you wil spare none howe smal a surmise soeuer you haue inducing you to thinke so euil of any Pope Go to then M. Iewel of your so many name vs some one infamous in eche of these great crimes which indifferently you laye to the charge of the Bishops of Rome leauing an euil suspicion in your Readers head that for the most parte al the Bishoppes of Rome were giltie of the one or the other How many Aduoutrers then can you name to vs Pope Hildebrand saye you was an Aduouterer that is a starke sclaunderous lie But were it true how many mo can you name let vs heare them Is there no mo but Pope Hildebrand Is one now become many with you and many but one So many Churche robbers Perchaunce yet of your Churche
might receiue the blessed Sacramēt of the body of Christe except they were stubborne and would not obey the sentence But sometimes in the Canons to be deposed signifieth Dicto Can. Apost 25. to be depriued of Ecclesiastical liuinges or to be suspended from execution of holy orders for a time Howbeit it is not oft so takē but in the two significations aforesaid for depositiō frō holy Orders by sentēce or for Degradatiō And no marueile though the old Canōs of the Apostles and decrees of auncient Fathers did so greuously pounish the Clergie for fornicatiō theaft periurie and other mortal sins For in the primitiue Church whē the Sūne of Iustice was vp at mid day and deuotiō hote sin was so much abhorred and pounished that to the very laie people that were Christians seuen yeres penance was wonte to be enioined and decreed by the lawe for euery mortal sinne C. hoc ipsū 33. q. 2. c. praedicādum in Glosa 22. q. 1. Distin 34. C. fraternitatis Ita decretum est in Concilio Laodicēsi Item in Carthaginensi 3. in 8. synodo vt in Gratiano .c. his qui cum 4. ca. ibi sequēt 26. q. 7. c. mensurā de poenitē dist 1. C. prasbyter 82. dis But in processe of time as the Deuotion and heate of Christian zeale decreased and the multitude of sinnes and sinners increased so these streight pounishementes and penances were mitigated For as Pope Pelagius saith Quamuis multa sint quae obseruari Canonicae iubet sublimitatis authoritas tamen defectus nostri temporis quo non solùm merita sed corpora ipsa hominum defecerunt districtionis illius non patitur manere censuram Although there be many thinges whiche the high authoritie of the Canons commaundeth to be obserued yet the defecte of our time is suche in whiche not onely the merites but also the very bodies of men be decaied that it wil not beare the censure of that olde streightnes to continue in force Therefore al penance in secrete Confession was at length referred to the arbitriment and iudgement of the glostly Father who should consider the contrite harte of the sinner and his weaknes and other circunstances and so enioine him suche penance as he thought sufficient And also withal this open pounishement of deposition for the open sinne of fornication in a Clerke was in Concilio Grangrensi changed into ten yeres penance to be performed after a very streight and austere māner and forme as that Councel prescribeth Which is so streight that if it were obserued now adaies M. Iewel should haue no cause to cōplaine that the Canons did fauourably or to gently pounish fornication in the Clergie But though euery man ought to doo the best he can to doo satisfaction and to repente of his sinnes before God yet in the open gouernement and publike rule and policie of the world the lawe must be such and appoint such thinges as may be obteined and obserued of men and as the people and time beareth els it wil be quite contēned and trodden doune and be neuer a whit obserued The Ciuil lawe doth pounish adulterie with death L. Gracchus C. de adult but we see the cōtrarie now euery where Yea it can not be established now in many Countries such is the state of the time and people Toto tit de cohab cler et mulier extra Therfore if the later Canons doo not so seuerely pounish fornication in the Clergie as the old Canons did we must rather beare it and lament it then be offended with it and reprehend it For such is the state of the time and the worlde that you maie rather wishe then establish to any good effect the rigour of the olde lawes and statutes both in ciuil and ecclesiastical rule But you shal neuer proue that the Churche winked at fornication in the clergie or that it did not the best it could at al times and now doth to extirpate this vice in euery sorte and degree of menne and especially in the Clergie as farre as possiblie it maie be and no farther For suche gouernement as can not take place in common weales we wil leaue to M. Iewel and his companions who go about with double brasen Canons and not by ecclesiastical Canōs to reforme the world as now in Fraunce it appeareth Looke and consider Concil Tridēt Sessio 25. c. 14. in decret reformat what the Councel of Trent lately decreed against vicious and lewde Priestes that defile them selues with wemen and keepe concubines and you shal wel perceiue the Church doth al that maie be as the time now serueth to pounish and extirpate that foule faulte out of the Clergie which your Bishoppes and ministers in England maintaine openly keping in the face of the worlde their strompettes vnder the name of wiues contrarie to their othes vowes and solemne professions made to God and to the world and yet are they not ashamed to laie the mainteinance of this vice to the Catholiques charge Yea some of them be openly knowen that wil not sticke to come from vnlawful beddes yea from other mennes wiues and like sad prophetes steppe into the pulpites and there raile at the vnchaste life of Priestes and Votaries as they cal them M. Ievvel The Apologie parte 6. cap. 14. Diuis 1. The 10. vntruthe In the Councel of Chalcedon the Ciuile Magistrate condēned by sentence of his owne mouth three Bishoppes Dioscerus Iuuenalis and Thalassius for heretiques and gaue iudgement that they should be deposed That al these three saie I were condemned in that Councel we finde not Much lesse that they were condemned by any Ciuile Magistrate for Heresie doo we finde Confut. 315. b. Reade what foloweth in my Confutation To this M. Iewel maketh his Replie saying Concilij Chalcedō Actione 1. pag. 831. These be the wordes pronounced openly in the Councel Videtur nobis iustum esse eidem poenae Dioscorum Reuerendū Episcopum Alexandriae Iuuenalem reuerendum episcopum Hierosolymorum Thalassium reuerendum episcopum Caesariae Cappadociae subiacere a sancto Concilio secundùm regulas See the Defence pag. 683. ab episcopali dignitate fieri alienos That Dioscorus onely vvas condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon and that not by the Ciuile Magistrate but by the Bisshoppes This testimonie M. Iewel helpeth you nothing at al. Nay let it be truly englished and duely considered with the circumstance and it shal appeare to be quite against you and al together with vs. And therefore craftily in this place ye forbare to put it in English It semeth you sawe not the place in the Original but that you trusted your note booke For they were not only these three Bishops of whom it was thought iuste that they should be condēned but also three others for sixe there be spoken of by name For breuities sake Concil Chalcedō Actio 1. pag. 831. colum 2. certaine wordes of lesse weight without altering of
lib. coÌ„t 9. sectas In the booke in tituled Recta fides de Caena Domin nor by writinges nor by worde nor by deede as the Lord hath commaunded whether he be Zuenckfeldius or Zuinglius or what soeuer he be called And in an other place he condemneth by name Zuinglius Carolostadius and Oecolampadius with al their diuers and dissonant sacramentarie heresies Nicolaus Amsdorffius a famous Superindent in Germanie saith thus plainely Thirdely we condemne the Sacramentaries Zuinglius and his felowes The publike write of the princes of Mansfeld and of the yonger princes of Saxonie doth recken vp in the rolle of condemned Heretiques the Sacramentaries by name Ioachimus Westphalus saith No false doctrine is so farre spred none with such labour and hypocrisie is defended â—oâ—e hath more beguiled the worlde then this false doctrine of the blessed Sacrament meaning Caluines owne doctrine learned first of Berengarius of whom you haue no cause you saie to be ashamed If Heretiques of your own schoole can not make you ashamed of Berengarius and his doctrine what say you to the great General Councel holden at S. Iohn Laterane in Rome vnder Innocentius the third CouÌ„cel of Laterane thereof called Concilium Lateranense That Councel was an vniuersal assemblie out of al partes of Christendom Platina in InnoceÌ„tio tertio The great Assemblie of Laterane Councel as wel out of the Greeke Church as out of the Latine The Patriarkes of Constantinople and Hierusalem were there present Archebishoppes were there threescore and ten Bishoppes foure hundred and twelue Abbates and Priores more then eight hundred There were at that Councel the Ambassadours of both Emperours both of the West Churche and of the East also of the kinges of Hierusalem of Fraunce of Spaine of England and of Cyprus In this Councel so general and vniuersal the Heresie of Berengarius was condemned Concil Lateran Cap. 1. and the doctrine of Transubstantiation by occasion of his heresie exactly and fully discussed was by general consent of al plainely and clearely confirmed If the Sentence Consent and Accorde of the whole vniuersal Church can moue you M. Iewel then haue you good cause to be ashamed of Berengarius whose heresie was in so ful ample and General a Councel condemned as none in this worlde was euer greater If al this moue you not yet let Berengarius him selfe De Consecrat Dist 2. Ego BereÌ„garius whom you esteme so muche moue you to be ashamed of his doctrine of the whiche he him selfe was so muche ashamed at length and not onely in iudgement openlâ— recanted but also 〈◊〉 the houre of his Death ful bitterlâ— and hartily repented him selfe thereof as by sides otherâ— Guilelmus Malmesburiensis recordeth saying thus Guilelmus Malmesburiensis de gastis Anglorum lib. 3. Ipse Berengarius die Epiphaniorum moriens gâ—â—iâ—â—â— producto recordatus quot miseros quondam adolescenâ— primo errâ—ris â—alâ—tâ— secta infecerit bodie inquit in die Apparitionis suae apparabit mihi Dominus meus Iesus Christus vel propter poenitentiam vt spero ad gloriam vel propter alios vt timeâ— ad poenam Nos sanè credimus post benedictionem Ecclesiasticam illa Mysteria esse verum corpus sanguinem saluatoris adducti veteris Ecclesiae authoritate maltis noâ—iter ostensis miraculis Berengâ—rius himselfe as he laie dying vpon the Epiphanie daie whiche we cal Twelfth daie and with heauy be wailing called vnto remembrance how many miserable personnes he had infected with his heresie in youth at the firste heatâ— of the Sacramentarie Errour spake these wordes He alluded to the vvord Epiphanie vvhiche signifieth appearing or reuealiÌ„g This daie my Lorde Iesus Christe being the daie of his appearance shal appeare vnto me either to glorie as I truste bicause it repenteth me of my heresie or to pounishment as I feare me for the sake of others whom I haue seduced What so euer it shal please God to doe with me Truely I beleeue that after Consecration vsed in the Churche those Mysteries are the true Bodie and Bloude of our Sauiour being persuaded both by the authoritie of the auncient Churche and by many Miracles shewed of late yeres Thus ye maie see how so euer ye be not ashamed of Berengarius that yet Berengarius is ashamed of you Iewel Pag. 48. But as for your doctrine bicause it is only of your selues therefore it falleth daily and is novv forsaken the vvorlde through Harding Our doctrine is the doctrine of the Fathers not of our selues neither is the same forsaken The Catholique doctrine The .16 Chapt. The Fathers of the first 600. yeres reiected In institut Cap. 18. de coena Domi. Iacobus Acontius StratageÌ„ Sathan lib. 6. whiche you cal oures hath ben by your owne Confession welneare a thowsand yeres olde I cal your Confession your solemne prescription of the first .600 yeres For prescribing the one ye renounce the other It can not therefore seeme to be of vs that liue now whiche by your owne Confession hath ben so auncient Howbeit it is euident the first 600. yeres stande as fully for vs as doo the later Therefore Iohn Caluine accuseth the first 600. yeres of Iudaisme and of Iewish superstition namely in the matter of the blessed Sacrifice Therefore Iacobus Acontius one of your owne side in his booke dedicated to the Quenes Maiestie plainely misliketh and reproueth such as offer to be tried by the auncient Fathers calling it perniciosissimam omninoque fugiendam consuetudinem a most pernicious custome and altogether to be auoided Therefore M. Nowel as this Acontius calleth it a * Valde amplum spatium Novvel in the preface of his first booke large scope to trie matters by the Fathers And he that hath vttered so muche blasphemie against the Crosse of Christe for his parte also protesteth plainely In the booke against the Cross that he wil not be tried by the Fathers And why al this M. Iewel Mary thâ—y know â—ight wel that by the Fathers you are condemned and that our doctrine by them is clearely established Wâ— therefore haue learned of our Auncestours al that we teache We haue inuented nothing of our selues Your beginning is knowen and is yet in mannes memorie When Papistrie as you cal it beganne you can neuer 〈◊〉 for your life The Gospelleâ— I shal neuer be haÌ„ble to shevv vvhen Papistrie beganne otherwise then with the beginning of Christes gospel Shewe once M. Iewel when in what age in what place Countrie Citie or Churche of whom vnder what Pope Emperour or Prince Papistrie beganne and then saie hardely it is our Doctrine and only of our selues Except you shewe this your lie wil seme palpable If ye haue ought to shew for the worship of your cause bring it forth be it but one sentence or one halfe sentence The Catholique doctrine vntruly reported by M. Ievvel to be forsaken al the vvorld through In like manner a sensible and a palpable lie it
by decrees of any Synode but by the voice of our Sauiour Christe in his Gospel when he said to Peter Tu es Petrus thou art Peter c. Math. 16. Iewel pag. 115. And eche of them vvas limited and bounded vvithin it selfe Alexandria to haue the ouersight ouer Egipt and Pentapolis Antioche ouer Syria Hierusalem ouer Ievvrie Rome ouer Italie and other Churches of the vveast Harding If none els had Iurisdiction ouer Italie and other Churches of the Weast then is the Bishop of Rome your lawful Patriarke that dwel in England otherwise it wil fal out that England shal be no parte of the whole Body of Christendome if it be vnder the rule of no Patriarke If he be your Patriarke as he is by your owne confession why do not ye obey him Iewel Pag. 115. Copus dia. 1. 166. And herein vve haue the exposition of Theodorus Balsamon that liued fiue hundred yeres agoe and vvas Patriarke of Antioche and as some of M. Hardinges frendes haue thought a man of great learning Yet for as much as M. Harding here vtterly refuseth him not onely as a Schismaâ—tique but also as a man voide of learning and reason c. Harding That he swarued from learning and reason in the exposition of the .6 Canon of the Nicene Councel is my saying not that he was voide of learning and reason absolutely as you vntruely reporte to make some apparent contradiction betwixte me and M. Cope A man maie for the loue he beareth to his owne false opinion or schisme expounde a Canon contrarie to his owne learning as M. Iewel doth many times and yet in other respectes be a right wel learned man The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuis 7. The Bisshop of Rome except he do his duetie as he ought c. vve saie that he ought not of right once to be called a Bishop or so much as an Elder For a Bisshop as saith S. Augustine is a name of labour and not of honour Harding The Pope or any other Bisshop is Bisshop though he be negligent in doing his duetie The .37 Chapt. I said ynough to this in my Confutation whereof the chiefe pith M. Iewel in the Defence hath slyly least out that it might not in his owne booke appeare to the Reader howe fully the Apologie is in that place confuted Now I adde thereto this much more Can any man iustly blame the Pope that now is for the doing of his duetie Hath not he and other his Predecessours in our time assembled a general Councel and therein disclosed al your heresies with mature disputations examined confuted and condemned them Hath not he in so doing donne more good then M. Iewel if he should recant and become a true Catholique doo al the daies of his life though he were suffered to preache as many Sermons and doo otherwise as true Penance woulde require Yea suppose he had leaft at this vndonne neither had answered to his vocation in most duetiful wise were he therefore no Bishop at al As S. Augustine saith a Bisshop is a name of labour and not of honour So S. Hierom saith Hieron in epist ad EuagriuÌ„ that a Bishop is a name of honour and of dignitie Let M. Iewel make both these to agree together and graunt that a Bishop is both the name of labour and of honour Of labour bicause his chiefe office and merite standeth in the diligent and paineful doing of his duetie of honour bicause qui bene praesunt presbyteri duplici honore digni sunt 1. Tim. 5. maximè qui laborant in verbo doctrina Priestes that gouerne wel are worthy of double honour specially such as take paines in the worde and teaching But put the case the Pope doth not his duetie hath he lost by and by the order of Priestehood or Bishoply order M. Iewel saith yea but S. Chrysostome saith no Chrysost Homil. 2. in cap. 1. epist 2. ad Timoth. in whom we finde these wordes Sacra ipsa Oblatio sine illam Petrus siue illam Paulus siue cuiusuis meriti Sacerdos eam offerat eadem est quam dedit Christus ipse Discipulis quámque Sacerdotes modo conficiunt Nihil habet ista quám illa minus The holy Oblation it selfe be it Peter or be it Paule or of what so euer merite the Prieste be that offereth it it is the selfe same that Christe did geue to his Disciples the selfe same that Priestes at these daies also do consecrate Thus S. Chrysostome If a Prieste of what so euer merite or deserte he be good or euil doo offer vp the selfe same oblation that Christ gaue to his Disciples as S. Chrysostom saith seing he hath ful power be he good be he naught to consecrate and to offer vp the selfe same oblation that Christ gaue to his Disciples how shal M. Iewel not graunt but that he remaineth a Priest stil be he neuer so negligent or otherwise vnworthy of that dignitie Likewise a Bishop be he neuer so vnmindeful and carelesse touching his duetie it is not his negligence or euil life that bereueth him of his bishoply Order and Degree For proufe hereof if there were no other testimonie to be alleged this of S. Chrysostome might suffice But S. Augustine disputing with the Donatistes August de Baptis coÌ„tra Donatist lib. 1. cap. 1. whose heresie was of neare cousinage vnto that M. Iewel here holdeth hath so plaine a place that neither he nor al his felowes shal euer be hable to auoide And this it is Sacramentum Baptismi est quod habet qui baptizat Et Sacramentum dandi Baptismi est quod habet qui ordinatur Sicut autem baptizatus si ab vnitate recesserit Sacramentum Baptismi non amittit sic etiam Ordinatus si ab vnitate recesserit Sacramentum dandi Baptismum non amittit Nulli enim Sacramento iniuria facienda est si discedit à malis vtrumque discedit Si permanet in malis vtrumque permanet Et paulò post Redeuntes qui priusquà m recidereÌ„t ordinati sunt non vtique rursus ordinantur sed aut administrant quod administrabant si hoc Ecclesiae vtilitas postulat aut si non admistrant Sacramentum Ordinationis sua tamen gerunt ideo eis manus inter Laicos non imponitur It is the Sacrament of Baptisme that he hath whiche is baptized And it is the Sacrament of ministring Baptisme whiche he hath that is in Orders But as the baptized personne if he should departe from the Vnitie of the Churche doth not lose the Sacrament of Baptisme euen so he that is in holy Orders if he departe from the vnitie of the Churche doth not lose the Sacrament of geuing Baptisme For to no Sacrament may we doo wrong If the Sacramentes doo departe from such as are il both the Sacramentes of Baptisme and holy Orders doo departe If it abyde in such as are il both the Sacrament of Baptisme and of holy Orders doo abyde
accusations when there are two witnesses It is his part only to admit accusations against Priestes who is the iudge of Priestes and euery Iudge is aboue him ouer whom he sitteth in iudgement Therefore a Bishop by Gods lawe is aboue a priest whose iudge he is allowed to be Epiphanius har 75. Which argument Epiphanius bringeth against Aerius the heretike who said as now M. Iewel saith that Priestes and Bishops were equal Hieron ad EuagriuÌ„ Againe S. Hierome who defended that the names of Bishops and of Priestes were confounded in the beginning and that the order of priesthod in them was one both which thinges are true yet he made an euident difference betwen the power of them graunting that a Priest could doo al that a Bishop can Hieronymus aduersus Luciferianos excepta ordinatione the ordering or geuing of holy orders excepted In that point then he beleued a Bishop to be aboue a Priest Now say I such a Bishop as by Gods lawe is aboue a Priest as who may only make Priestes and geue them power to consecrate and in Christes person to make and offer vnto God his body and bloud such a Bishop or such a Priest you haue not in al your Church vnlesse they be Apostates and Renegates who being once made priestes with vs haue now denied the faith wherein they were Christened and are runne out of the Church vnto your false Congregations and scattered troupes Iewel Neiter doth the Church of England this daye depende of them vvhom you so often cal Apostates as if our Church vvere no Churche vvithout them Harding S. Hierome said no Priest no Church Aduersus Lucifer Epistola ad Heliodorum and by a priest he meant him that maketh Christes body with hâ—â— holy mouth and offereth the same For these are his own wordes but such a priest is made only of a Bishop who is by Gods law aboue him And such Priestes haue you none besides Apostates Therfore your Church either is none or dependeth of Apostates and Renegates Iewel Pag. 131. They are no Apostates M. Harding that is rather your ovvne name and of good right belongeth vnto you Harding He is an Apostata who forsaketh the good profession VVho are Apostates which he once had But the profession either of Monkes or of the Catholikes whom you cal Papistes is good and godly For concerning Monkes they are the men who after the counsel of our Sauiour Matt. 19. professe to geue awaie their goodes to the pore or forsake the hope of goodes whiche may be had in the world and follow Christe gelding them selues or making them selues Eunuches for the kingdom of heauen This must needes be a good profession And as for the Catholikes they are the onely true members of Christes Church and none other can be Catholiques beside those whom you cal Papistes Bicause none others haue benne alwaies in al places and al times sith Christes Ascension And we haue ben so as our predecessours and pastours in the See of Rome with al other pastours agreeing therewith doo euidently shew euen to the eye Therfore who so haue forsaken their profession and rule as Renegate monkes and Friers haue or our Churâ—h as those priestes haue who being rightly ordered in the catholique Churche communicate now with you they are Apostates and Renegates And wheras you say that to be my name and of good right to belong vnto me there can be no iuste cause to cal me an Apostata except it be for departing from you But ye are al Apostates your selues For it can be named but of what Catholike felowship ye are departed whom ye leafte behind you al Italie Fraunce and Spaine c. who went out with you a peece of Germanie Suitzerland England and Scotland and after whom ye went some after Luther some after Zuinglius some after Caluin Therefore ye are al Apostates Now when I departed from you with whom notwithstanding I neuer remained wholly I departed from Apostates and came to that fellowship which neuer forsooke their former faith nor went out nor leaft any behind them who might complaine of their departure nor had any peculiar Captaines but onely the Apostles and their Successours that folowed them lineally from age to age Therefore the name of Apostata belongeth not to me but to you and to your felowes If the Reader say that we doo but sclaunder one the other let him consider the reason and not the wordes An Apostata is one The Protestantes be Apostates who faileth and depareth from some certaine lawful head We departe from none but kepe God Christ and his Ministerial headdes Bishops Priestes Kinges and Magistrates But the Protestantes haue denied al the Bishops aliue in the whole earth who liued before and in Luthers time They haue and doo rebel in al countries for the pretence of Religion And so they forsake both the obedience of spiritual and temporal gouernours therefore they are by al meanes Apostates Iewel Pag. 131. They are for a great part learned and graue and godly men and are much ashamed to see your solies Harding There is no learning against faith What learning cal you it when a man learneth to denie this to be Christes body which he said to be his body Or to holde Matt. 26. that the Church is sometimes hid Matt. 5. which Christ said to be a Citie built vpon a hil that can not be hid What grauitie is this to be moued and caried out of the Church and to be tossed hither and thither with euery puffe of new doctrine Nowe to be a Hussite then a Lutheran now a Brentian afterward a Zuinglian and last of al a Caluinist Yea what grauitie is it to defende that al these sectes may be saued seing they teâ—â—â— contradictorie doctrine and wil come to no agreement Concerning our folies which you say they see they are folies to worldlynges and to men wise in their owne eyes as a man to shut vp him selfe in a Cloister to watch to fast to praye to liue chaste to bewaile his sinnes to geue awaye al his goods for Gods sake to honour Gods frendes with a due reuerence and worship to beleue Christ rather then our eyes and to trust the wit of our Predecessours rather then our owne These are in deede our folies in 〈…〉 we glorie through Gods grace leauing the pride oâ—â—oâ—… new traÌ„slations of the Scriptures your Sectes and wordly wisedom the breaking of vowes the liuing in incest and open filthinesse with impudent maintenance therof to your great learning grauitie holinesse and wisedom Iewel Pag. 131. NotvvithstaÌ„ding if there vvere not one neither of them nor of vs leaft aliue yet vvould not therfore the vvhole Church of EnglaÌ„d flee to Louain Harding Who euer said that the whole Church of England must flee or was fled to Louaine You kepe some parte of it fast inough from fleeing to Louaine or any whither els if the Tower the Fleete the Marshalsea the
matter lieth open to many accusations And therefore he would a Bishop to geue no occasion of euil to those that be vnder him * Thus Chrysostome Where with S. Paule first he putteth to silence the Cerdonistes Marcionistes Seuerians Tatians Manichees and al other Heretikes that condemned marriage and said it was an impure thing Secondly he alloweth matrimonie fo farre that he acknowledgeth a maried man may ascend to a Bishops seate Thirdly * Leaft out by M. Iev Bigâ—mie lauful rather then coÌ„mendable leafte out by M. Iev The Bigamie of the gospellers condeÌ„ned by Chrysostom and Paule-StroÌ„pets he putteth Bigamie that it to witte marying an other after the first or a widowe to be lawful rather then commendable * Nowe as wee doo not condemne marriage neither denie but that married menne in the Primitiue Churche and before the Ghospel was so generally receiued as it was at length were and might be called to the dignitie of Bishoprike when scarcetie and lacke of single menne worthy of that rome was founde * so we see the impure Bigamie of our holy gospellers condemned both by S. Chrysostom and S. Paule of whom many being Priestes and as they saye Bishops at lest presuming to occupie that holy seate for custodie of their chastitie after their former olde yokefellowes decease solace them selues with newe strompettes By a better name I would cal them if I wist I should not offend For what woman soeuer coupleth her selfe in such damnable yoking how can she appeare either to be honest or to haue care of her soule health As for the simple that be deceiued by the importunitie and craft of those lurdens as they are not to be borne withal so yet I thinke them to be pitied But if this Defender presse vs with Chrysostome we answer that though Chrysostom graunte that a married man may ascende to the holy seate yet he sayeth not that a man may descend from that holy seate to the Bride bedde For we denie vtterly After holy orders receiued mariage neuer coÌ„pted lauful amoÌ„g catholikes that any man after that he hath receiued holy orders maie marye Neither can it be shewed that the mariage of suche was euer accompted lawful in the catholike Church In deed we know that in Germanie and in EnglaÌ„d and certain other prouinces at dissolute times when the discipline of the Church was shaken of Priestes haue ben maried as we reade of the time in whiche Anselmus was Bishop of Cantorbury Priestes maryed in EnglaÌ„d in the time of Anselmus But that disorder was alwayes by due correction of bishops punished and redressed So that what soeuer Bale Poinet or any other of that filthy railing rable bring out of Huldrike of Auspurg Huntingdonensis Capgraue Chronica Chronicarum or such other obscure and barbarous stories for witnes of priestes marriages seing the same were by good rulers of the Churche at al times controlled and resisted as vnlauful and wicked it is of no force nor auctoritie How why and when maried men were admitted to be priestes and wher the profession of chastitie and absteining from companie of their wiues was required of them and many other poinctes touching the vnlawful mariages of priestes who so euer is desirous to be amply instructed the same I referre to a large treatise written hereof by a lerned man in our owne tonge I thinke not good here to recite the thinges that be so wel treated already Iewel Pag. 164. Here I graunte M. Harding is like to finde some good aduauntage as hauing vndoubtedly a great Number of the holy Fathers of his side c. That Priestes and Votaries maie not marrie The first Chapter Harding The Fathers be on our side by M. Iewels ovvne confessioÌ„ THEN vndoubtedly you haue not the holy Scriptures on your side For the holy Fathers haue neuer in great number determined or weighed against the Scriptures For the same Christ that gaue vs the holy Scriptures gaue vs also Pastours and Doctours as S. Paule teacheth to make perfite the Saintes that is the Christians by their ministerial working and to build vp the body of Christe whiche is his Churche Seing then M. Iewel confesseth that for this point we haue a great number of the Fathers on our side let him make his Moustre of Glosers Summistes al the Canonistes Schoolemen and of his other late petie Doctours whom when they serue vs he calleth the Blacke Garde neuer so great we wil content our selues with the great number of Ancient Fathers And if the Fathers be on our side what remaineth but that the Reader make his choise to whiche side to incline to the olde Fathers of the Auncient Churche of whose holinesse wee are wel assured or to these yong Fathers of this new Churche whose Children do geue vs better witnesse that they be fathers then doth their life that they be holy Wel how great number of holy Fathers so euer we haue on our side certaine it is that M. Iewel wil not yeelde Let it then be considered how he defendeth this point and what pith there is in al that number of the Doctours sayinges whiche he would seme to allege for his purpose As concerning the wordes of my confutation of the Apologie touching this point of the marriage of Priestes and Votaries bicause I knew these married Apostates doo charge vs as hauing an euil iudgement of Matrimonie directly answering the wordes of the Apologie first I commende Matrimonie Heb. 13. To marrie vnlauful in tvvo cases and approue the saying of S. Paule vttered in the Epistle to the Hebrewes in praise of it Neuerthelesse I say that to marrie it is vnlawful in two cases The one is if any person haue vowed continencie the other if any man haue taken holy Orders The first I proue by Scripture and the Fathers the second by the Ordinance of the Churche and also by testimonie of the Fathers Then I answer to the place alleged out of S. Chrysostom who saith that a married man may be promoted vnto the dignitie of a Bishop In discoursing whereupon I shew that the Bigamie of the married Apostates of our time is by sentence of S. Chrysostome vtterly condemned After this graunting that in the olde Church married men vpon good causes were made Bishops I denie that Bishoppes were euer made married men after they were Bishops The foure thinges that in this matter M. Ievvel hath to defende These then be the thinges that here M. Iewel hath to defende First that is is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie Secondly that it is lawful after the taking of holy Orders Thirdly that Bigamie or second marriage is lawful in Priestes Monckes Friers and Nonnes Fourthly that in olde time Bishoppes were married after they had once ben consecrate Bishops These foure if he doo not defende he perfourmeth nothing touching this point but sheweth him selfe to al menne ouercomme though his Doctours allegations besides the purpose be neuer so many VVhat
of the ministration of them I vtterly condemne That I saie Their Faith is no Faith it is the sixthe lye I confesse it to be a Faith touching the pointes wherein they agree with the catholique Churche In the other pointes I saie it is no Faith but errour and heresie Albeit Arius the heretique had a Faith Eunomius had a Faith Nestorius Euctyhes Sabellius Photinus Apollinaris briefly al Heretiques had their Faithes but al were false Faithes as much to say no Faithes but as the Latines cal it Perfidia M. Iewel for some shewe of vpright dealing hath filled his margent in this place with cotations as thicke as they maie stand one by an other directing the reader to my bookes If it shal please the reader diligently to peruse the places bothe in my Confutation and in my Reioinder he shal trie him to be as he is euery where a false and a shamelesse lyer As for the Quenes Lawes The Quenes Lavves and Parlamentes and Parlamentes for change of Religion and Faith what haue I to doo with them whether they be lawes and Parlamentes or no Be they as they be It is not my profession to discusse that matter If there be any that doubte thereof let the learned men of lawe be demaunded their opinion If they wil not or if they be loth to speake what they thinke let the questiō be differred vntil the time come that M. Iewel and I shal be placed where we shal no more contende about the authoritie of mannes lawes 2. Cor. 5. but shal ech of vs receiue according to that we haue done in our bodies that is to saie accordingly as we haue in our doctrine and life either kept or broken Goddes lawes The age to come perhappes shal be hable to saie more therein then this present time It is an olde said sawe Filia temporis Veritas Truth is the daughter of time Let vs not trouble our selues about this odious question M. Iewel I praie you but referre it ouer to the time to come Yet bicause in your pretensed Defence ye beare menne in hande that I seeme to saie Defence pag. 595. that the Parlament holden in the firste yere of the Quenes Maiesties reigne was no Parlament for that the Bishops refused to agree vnto the statute made for change of Religion I wil here truely laie forth my wordes in whiche you auouche I seeme so to saie that it maie appeare to al menne what a quareller you are These be my wordes Confut. fol. 276 a. Where haue ye treated of your matters That matter hath benne treated saie ye in open Parlament with long consultation and before a notable Synode and Conuocation First in what Parlament Meane ye the first of our Soueraine Lady Quene Elizabeth or any of those of king Edward the sixth his daies c. If ye meane as by reason you must the Parlamentes of these later daies the first of al did make most for you and yet how open was it for you Had ye any place at al in it Were ye admitted within the doores Or had ye any thing to doo in that assemblie Consider then with what Consultation your purposes were concluded Did they tarie manie monethes about it Had they Bishoppes Had they Diuines and the most learned to reason too and fro with al libertie Was the authoritie of the Vniuersal Churche of Christe and the doctrine of the Auncient Fathers considered Ye saie in Latine Plenis Comitijs that is in the ful and whole assemblie as though none at al had there resisted but euery man had yelded to your matters What saie ye then of the Spiritual Lordes a great parte of the Parlament and without al doubte the parte whiche must be chiefly and onely regarded when the Question is of Religion How many of them gaue their voice to your Gospel Yea whiche of them al did not resiste it c. As of the Spiritual Lordes ye had none at al so of the Temporal ye had not al and so had ye also in the lower house very many and wel learned that spake against you * These vvordes folowing M. Ievvel nipte avvaie in the Defence And mo would had conscience benne as free as auctoritie was dredful And yet cal ye this a ful Parlament and a Parlament whiche had al his partes wholy fauouring you * Vpon these wordes M. Iewel maketh muche a doo in the Defence as if I had denied that Parlament to be a Parlament for lacke of the Bishoppes consent But whether I said so or no let these mine owne wordes before rehersed be the trial Touching the matter it selfe he saith how truely I doubt that in the Parlamentes of England for any Statute to be lawfully enacted the consent of Archebishoppes and Bishoppes hath not ben thought necessarie Defence pag. 595. and that matters haue passed only by the more parte of voices yea although these be his very wordes al Archebishoppes Defence Ibidem and Bishops were neuer so earnestly bent against it And yet he saith further whereat I marueil that Statutes so passing onely by the voices of the Lordes Temporal though the Lordes Spiritual dissente neuer so muche haue neuerthelesse alwaies ben confirmed enacted and published vnder the names of the Lordes Spiritual and Temporal If it be so then I perceiue it faieth with the lordes Spiritual as it faieth with me For as M. Iewel hath published and said many thinges vnder my name that I neuer said nor meant to thintent to discredite me if any happily be so simple that wil beleeue him So by this tale lawes be published vnder the name of Archebishoppes and Bishoppes who are the Lordes Spiritual vnto whiche they neuer gaue their assent but contrary wise earnestly dissented What this is to be called in the Statutes of the Realme I knowe not but in the writinges of priuate menne suche as Maister Iewels and myne are this practise of fathering wordes and sayinges vpon a man whiche he neuer said nor wrote is accompted vnlawful and false and commonly is named forgerie falsifying and belying the chiefe flowers wherewith M. Iewel alwaies decketh his garland He referreth me for further proufe of this matter to the Recordes of a Parlament holden by king Edward the first at S. Edmundes Burie the Archebishoppes and Bishopes being as he saith quite shutte forthe Anno Domini 1296 where he telleth me it is written thus Habito Rex cum suis Baronibus Parlamento Clero excluso statutum est c. The king keeping the Parlament with his Barons the Clergie that is to saie the Archebishoppes and Bishoppes being shutte forth it was enacted c. Perhappes the inferiour Clergie was excluded who as I haue heard Lawiers saie in olde time came to the Parlamentes and had their place in the lower house But that the Archebishoppes and Bishoppes were excluded thereof I doubte Item saith he in the time of king Henrie the thirde a statute touching the legitimation of
you are to defend it what wise man seeth not Yet bicause you thinke your selfe shamed for euer excepte you stand to it stoutely ye proceede without regard of truth or modestie And nowe seing your selfe brought to this distresse that you must either yeelde with some shame or prosecute your Chalenge with more shame ye choose rather to seeme impudent in lying and to passe al measure in craking then any thing ouerseene in that you first tooke in hande And albeit bothe I and others haue made most euident proufe hereof and the thing it selfe speaketh so muche yea and your owne very frendes see it and be right sorfor it yet forsooth to cal M. Iewel a lyer a sclaunderer a craking Chalenger by verdite of M. Iewel him selfe it was vnmannerly and vnciuilly done But sir sith you require me to be so courteous in my writinges against you why did not you your selfe in yours against me vse more courtesie Is that commendable in you whiche is reproueable in me Or els what haue you a special dispensation to say what you liste and to require al others to adore you and say Aue Rabbi Shal it be lawful for you to crie out vpon vs tolle tolle crucifige and must we sing vnto you Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus Whiles ye barke and bite must we caste a disshe of fragmentes vnto you Whiles ye play the Beare with vs must we throw honny vnto you Whiles ye play the parte of Satan must we light a candle before you S. Paule the chosen vessel of Christe teaching Titus Tit. 1. how to demeane himselfe towardes such as you are said Increpa illos durè rebuke them sharpely But what soeuer you say or doo must we needes sothe you and smooth◠you Muste we stroke you and cooxe you as men doo curst boyes after they haue done shrewd turnes If you passe al men that euer wrote in number of lyes in vanitie of boasting in the common custom of scoffing as now it hath benne prooued against you shal we feare that we seeme not to lacke the ciuilitie you speake of to cal you a lyer a boaster a scoffer What is the matter that doing so il you require to be spoken of so wel By this or no vvaie els like it is we should please M. Ievvel PErhaps whereas the Rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie cause men al to belorde you your eares being of long tyme accustomed to suche honorable greetinges you looke to be honoured at our handes as you are of your poore hungry Craftesmen that hauing learned to reade Englishe pretily sue vnto you for Ministerships And then whereas you lye impudently folowing them we muste saie were it not that your good Lordship saith so verely we should haue thought otherwise And whereas you falsifie your testimonies we must put the fault in your Spectacles When you hew and mangle the Doctours so fowly that al the worlde may see it we must beare you in hande that when your Lordship wrote so the booke was not at hande When you serue vs with a point of Scurrilitie we muste saye O howe it becommeth your L. to be meary When you shoote at randon diuerting altogether from the special point that is to be answered vnto impertinent matter we must say your L. shooteth faire though somewhat wide of the marke When by no witte nor cunning you are hable to make good your Chalenge yet then we must say that your L. lacketh no woordes and hath geuen a good Push towardes it To be shorte for these be the special pointes for whiche you accuse my vtterance of vncourtesie when you speake big and Goliathlike vpbraid al the hoste of God to witte the whole Catholique Churche of these laste thousand yeres what must we doo but to shew token of feare 1. Reg. 17. as the Israelites vnder king Saul did and geue backe that you may boast and crake alone Truly touching your dignitie what accompte so euer you make of your selfe I take you but for M. Iewel Bacheler of Diuinitie sometime person of Sunningwel betwen Oxford and Abington And that is the greatest degree that euer I knewe you called vnto If the Quenes Highnes of her special fauour towardes you haue geuen you the rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie you are the more bounde to thanke her and to consider what accompte you haue to make of it It is not money that can set you one steppe higher in ecclesiastical degree A Bishop you are not I am right sure neither can al the Kinges and Quenes of the worlde nor al the Parlamentes of England by any their owne onely power and auctoritie make you a lawful and a true Bishop The same I tolde you in my Confutation of your Apologie whiche point you haue not sufficiently answered as it shal appeare Yet was it very behoofful for you to haue fully answered But I beare with you as therein not lacking good wil but habilitie Study for it so long as you wil you shal neuer be hable to make it good that you are yet a right Bishop Therefore in this respecte you ought to beare with my bolde vtterance the more taking you for no greater man in right then you were when you subscribed in Oxford to the Real Presence to the Sacrifice of the Masse and to those other pointes that now you impugne so busily In very deede this muche I confesse that in case you were a Bishop though an vnworthy Bishop yea a wicked Bishop yet for the dignitie of that Vocation and for the Orders sake I should and would reuerence you accordingly Act. 23. Whereas it was tolde S. Paule after he had reuiled Ananias that he was the high Bishop he reuoked his worde and submitted him selfe to that was written Thou shalt not curse the gouernour of thy people Exod. 22. Whereby he doth vs to vnderstande that had he knowen he had benne no Bishop at al he woulde not haue reuoked his worde that in your opinion is vnciuile and vncourteous but haue let it stand in force You being as il a man as euer Ananias was and hauing done muche more spite vnto the Churche of Christe and more dishonour vnto God then euer he did beare with me for speaking truly and ernestly without flatterie Act. 23. The example of S. Paule saying to Ananias Thou painted wal not knowing him to be the high Bishop and yet occupying a more honorable roome then you are yet called vnto leadeth me not greatly to repent of any of those wordes spoken of you or of your felowes the Sacramentaries and Protestantes of our time whiche to impaire my credite you haue culled out of my Bookes and laid together in one heape And what so euer I haue written or said that toucheth your person specially and irketh you I take God to record therein I respected not M. Iewel the priuate man but M. Iewel the publique enemie of Christes Churche the professed Impugner of the Truth and Catholique Religion
more reuerently of Peter then of Iesus Christe 593. The Popes Aduocates Abbates Bishoppes open enemies to the Gospel 618. Your Popes Retainers 695. They make decrees expressely against Gods worde 620. The Pope wil plucke from vs the Gospel and al the confidence we haue in Christ Iesu 723. The Pope hath blinded the whole worlde this many hundred yeres and no man maie condemne him though he carrie awaie with him a thousand soules into hell 729. Frantike gouernement of the Pope 733. The second Councel of Nice was vaine peeuish wicked blasphemous 502. Before the Scriptures they preferre their owne Dreames 70. Hicke Scorners eloquence 356. Hicke Scorners logique 270. Hypocritical eloquence 2â—0 They are very Churche robbers 228. These shewes sales and markettes of Masses carrying about and worshipping of bread other idolatrous and blasphemous fondnesse 290. Blockish and olde wiues tale 296. Haruest of Massemongers 302. Truth is with crueltie and tyrannie kepte vnder 334. They agree together as the Phariseis and Saduceis as Herode and Pilate c. 342. The very foes of the Gospel and enemies to Christes Crosse 354 Your faction 611. 615. Aduoutrie ribaudrie whoredome murthering of kinne inceste brothel houses flockes of Concubines heardes of harlot haunters beastly sensualitie abominable naughtinesse 384. Like Anabaptistes and Libertines 395. Naughty personnes and hypocrites 429. They abhorre and flee the worde of God as a theefe flieth the gallowes 464. Ye rent in peeces and burne the ancient Fathers 500. Ye condemne the Scriptures 505. Your Droues and heardes of Monckes 508. They let concubines to ferme to their Priestes 510. Their cursed paltrie Seruice 511. They mumble vp their Seruice in a Barbarous tongue 515. The Canonistes at this daie for their bellies sake c. 560. They haue choked vp the fonteine of lyuing water with durtâ— and mire 573. They haue forsaken Christe and the Apostles 576. VVith most notorious sacriledge they seuer the Sacramentes 584. They leane to ignorance and darkenes 590. They haue spoiled and disanulled the ordinances and doctrine of the Primitiue Churche 592. Your wilful ignorance 602. Blinde Balams wilful purpose 602. They make decrees expressely against Goddes worde 620. They take parte with Annas and Caiphas Ibidem Vnlearned Bishoppes slow bellies 623. Errour Idolatrie Superstition tyrannie Pompe 626. The Councel of Trident is a Conspiracie not a Councel 626. Princes Ambassadours be vsed as mocking stockes at the Councelles 631. VVith spite they leaue out Princes 635. O glorious Thraso 640. They set not a iote by any point of religion saue that whiche concernes their bellie and riotte 642. This is proude this is spiteful Ibidem Princes be despitefully scorned and abused by them 697. They harden their hartes against God and his Christe 715. They are menne farre more vngraceous and wicked then any diceplaiers be 728. Tyrannie of the Popes kingdome 732. They were fooles and madde menne 733. A very spiteful dealing 54. Content thy selfe good Reader with these few taken out of the whole heape To laie forthe al were to printe his Huge booke againe For of suche stuffe in manner and of vaine Scoffes the whole consisteth Nowe bicause M. Iewel hath laid together an other Heape of wordes culled out of my bookes which of his courtesie he would needes calle Scoffes and Scornes here to make an euen reckening with him I haue thought good to returne vnto him coine of the same stampe tolde out of his owne bagges though it be more cankred then mine is Scoffes and Scornes be vnseemely saith M. Iewel Defence pag. 8. Scoffes and Scornes against God his Churche and his Sainctes I trow ye would proue that God the Father made holy water and said Masse 496. Christe an Abbate 66. S. Peter said masse with a golden Cope and a triple Crowne 300. The Apostles had keies geuen them but no house to open 163. As if Christe and the Pope were ioined purchasers 608. If Christe were not Christe then S. Patrike should be Christe 231. Peter and Paule had neuer Papale Christianitie 674. Sir Clement Iacke of Andrew 536. The Romaine faith was heard of through out the whole worlde and so was the Capitole of Rome 437. So long as the Churche of Rome can speake for her selfe al is wel 715. The spirite of Rome 606. S. Augustines vnceasoned fantasies 370. Sacramentarie Scoffes VVho taught M. Harding that Christe hath change of diuers bodies 86. Your shoppes and gaineful boothes 333. meant of Aulters Came Christe to saue bread and wine 254. Came the Sonne of man from heauen to saue Accidentes 254. VVhere was Christes bodie euer promised to your Mouth 274 The poore Spiritual Fourmes and holy Accidentes are put to al the paines 261. The man in the moone newly Christened 37. How can a few droppes of cold water bring vs to the hope of resurrection 221. These be their keies of the kingdome of heauen 249. Scoffes against the Pope Bishoppes and Priestes One Principal Archangel Pope in heauen 100. The Emperour was the Popes Summoner 671. The Pope a special Maister Keie 160. The Pope hath the holy Ghoste I trow at his commaundement 724. The Pope a lorde Paramounte 161. The Popes owne Minions and Champions 468. Dame Ioane the Pope 374. This is one of the Cardinalle vertues of Rome to take tolle of Bawdrie 369. in marg Princehoode 〈◊〉 â—postolique ioily large wordes and carry great sounde â—â—â— VVhat if Christeâ— Vicare him selfe be Antichrist 433. In Margine Your Pope no more a Bishop then Annas your Priest no more a Priest then the Priest of Dagon or Baal 659. Maie Bishoppes 664. Blinde Sir Robert the Archebishop of Armache 597. Blinde Sir Robert of Scotland and M. Pates of England seely poore Bishoppes 714. The blessed Bishoppes of the Second Nicen Councel 502. These be the great VVorthies of the worlde 714. Scoffes particular and general M. Harding skippeth into Goddes chaire 23. M. Hardinges mystical Catholique eares 232. So coye and careful M. Harding is for holy Fourmes and his kingdom of Accidentes 248. M. Hardinges Almanake 22. How long hath M. Harding benne a wisard 209. M. Hardinges face died in Scarlet 183. M. Harding Proctor for the Stewes 370. M. Hardinges Dimi Communion 195. M. Hardinges yong vntiedy Argumentes 650. Albertus Pighius the stowtest Gallant of your Campe. 24. M. Harding wil trouble his Godfathers and cause them to geue him a new name 416. M. Hardinges mouthe no iuste measure 8. If you had not studied your Copia verborum you could neuer haue benne so copious 388. And do you know his harte by towting in his eare 157. In Margine Alas your poore Chickens would die for colde 28. No Haralde could lightly haue said more in the matter 496. Al the same is substantially proued by tâ—â—â—oâ—â—e and deliuerie of a horse 499. It is not a Fearnbushe Ergo it is a Foxe 255. It is concluded in Louaine in great solemne sadnesse c. M. Hardinges Beaupeeres of Louaine 492. Your innumerable Louain Vanities 537. Your Louanian diuinitie
it and hath placed it in sundry corners of his bookes verely in his laste most vaine Defence of the Apologie in very many places With suche starres he geueth light to the congregations of his sect If this be not impudencie what is impudencie M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 6. cap. 6. Diuis 1. The. â— Vntruth Some of them haue said The Pope is the lighte that is come into the worlde And who so is an il dooer fleeth that lighte M. Iewel falsifieth the Answere that I make vnto this obiection by cutting awaye those wordes wherein the answer consisteth Confutatio 287. a. as it may be sene in my Confutation Thus there I say and the same here I say againe we answer you on the behalfe of Cornelius the Bisshop of Bitontâ— in Italie Ioan. 1. that he neuer said The Pope is the lighte whiche should come into the worlde in that sense as it is spoken of Christe Neither is the Replie ye make directed vnto this answere For against the same ye haue in deede nothing to replie If that Bisshop in an Oration made at thâ— Câ—uncel of Trent spake vndiscreetely where it was lawful for al to speake freely what they thought good as it is or at least ought to be in our Parlamentes in England what is that to vs Neither are we bound to iustifie euery mannes priuate tale nor if any speake perhaps at a time vnaduisedly can that stand you in any steede for defence of wicked Schismes and Heresies with whiche ye are charged Howbeit Cornelius the Bishop of Bitonto there spake not altogether as you english his wordes and his saying being fauourably expounded in a conuenient sense as doubtelesse he meant it may be tolerated M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 4. Cap. 1. Diuis 1. The. 9. Vntruth They haue decreed that a Priest for Fornication ought not to be remoued from his Cure You haue fouly falsified my Answer hereunto M. Iewel And in your pretensed Defence ye haue cut of from my Confutation muche that maketh directly against you as ye haue done through your whole Booke Confut. fol. 158. a. See my Confutation who wil and he shal finde you proued a foule lier And who be they I praie you that haue thus decreed In your said Defence you are faine to flee to your commoÌ„ frende the Glose vpon the Decrees out of which ye serue your selfe of muche gay stuffe And what saith the Glose It saith thus Dicunt neminem c. Why M. Iewel dependeth your whole proufe vpon the Glosers dicunt that is vpon a They saie Ye tel vs they haue decreed and being required to shew it you send vs to the Glose and yet there ye haue no certaine Decree but an vncertaine dicunt Ye haue litle knowledge in your Canon lawe I perceiue as great a lawier as ye make your selfe and as great a lawier as he is to whom ye gaue the Archedeaconrie of Northwiltshire to thintent he among others mo shoulde helpe you in patching together the Aphorismes and peeces of your lying Bookes After this ye goo for proufe hereof from the Glose to the margent of the Glose It is pitie this manne hath not authoritie to make Gloses of his owne autheÌ„tical to proue his toies by and that the marginal notes maie not stand him in steede of substantial authoritie But at length there as also in your Replie in the view of your Vntruthes Panormitane is brought in and he a Gods name is my greatest Canoniste saie you whereas ye knowe wel ynough M. Iewel Extra De consangui affini NoÌ„ debet the Canon lawe is not my profession But what saith he Hodie ex simplici fornicatione Clericus non deponitur for simple fornication now a daies a Clerke is not deposed Why M. Iewel this speaketh but of the practise that theÌ„ was and your promise was to shew vs where it was decreed you forgete your selfe pardie Fornication pounished in the Clergie But sir vnderstand you what in the Canon Lawe is meant by depositioÌ„ Deposition what it is If ye think it is nothing els but a Priest to be remoued from his cure for so you take it you are deceiued For it is a farre more greuous pounishment Deposition by the definition of the Canonistes is a remouing of a Clerke from the ministerie of the Aulter for euer Panormitane by you alleged saith that now a daies a Clerke is not deposed for simple fornication as in olde time indistinctly he was deposed As you finde in cap. A multis Extra de aetate qualita ordinand Yea saith he in olde time euery mortal sinne was thought worthy of DepositioÌ„ Distinct 4 ca. erit auÌ„t lex By Panormitane a Priest coÌ„mitting simple fornication is pounished otherwise then by Deposition diuersly in diuers respectes For the whiche you are referred to the chapter At si Clerici Extra De iudic Where he treateth more fully of this mater and as it were of purpose There shal ye finde how he is to be pounished Canone Apost 25. C. Maximinianus 81. dist alijs capitibus eo tit Deposition of tvvo sortes And here to saie somewhat therof for the better instruction of the Reader In the Canons of the Apostles it is plaine and also in diuers other olde Canons that as for theafte periurie and other crimes so for fornication a Clerk of what order so euer he were should be deposed Deposition is of two sortes the one which is solemne and with terrour when not only by sentence a Clerke is depriued of his holy Orders though the character yet remaine but vnprofitable to the executioÌ„ of holy Orders but also in deede and actually his head is shauen his sacred ornamentes takeÌ„ away and then him selfe turned into laie apparel as Cranmar and Ridley were in Oxford This kind of Deposition is properly called Degradatio Degradatio which is not vsed but when the offenders faulte is so great that he is to be deliuered to the secular power to be pounished C. Nouimus ext de verb. signif c. 1. de haereticis libro 6. Depositio properly executed or to be walled vp for euer The other kinde of Deposition is which is done only by sentence without actual Degradation and that is called properly Depositio the whiche is here meant They that were thus by only senteÌ„ce though not actually deposed froÌ„ the Clergie for their notorious and outragious offences were greuously pounished First it was a great losse to lose their Orders and dignitie of the Clergie Then also they lost al their spiritual liuinges and offices and al priuileges of Clerkes Besides this they were without al hope to be restored againe to the ministerie C. 1. cum 11. capit seq dist 5â— And withal they were condemned to some streight Cloister there al their liues long to lamente and bewaile their offence and so to doo penance C. Sacerdos cum c. seq 81. dis But they
by your vulgare translations corrupted them that lamentable it is to consider And when we burned the same corrupt translations or any parte thereof or any of your heretical treatises we burned not the Scriptures no more then one doth the Apple tree that burneth the Caterpillers The Scriptures we honour and kepe most reuerently and diligently Therefore your comparing of vs with the wicked kinges Aza Antiochus Maximinus and Herode is false and sclaūderous Reade the reste that foloweth there good Reader and if thou wilt iudge as thou findest and saie as thou iudgest and write that thou maist truly saie M. Iewel shal be said to be a false sclaunderer and regestred in the booke of lying sclaunderers Iewel Pag. 10. As for Iohn VViclef Iohn Hus VValdo and the rest they vvere godly men their greatest heresie vvas this that they complained of the dissolute and vitious liues of the Clergie of vvorshipping of Images of feined miracles of the tyrannical pride of the Pope of Monkes Friers Pardons Pilgrimages and Purgatorie and other like deceiuing and mocking of the People and that they vvished a reformation of the Churche Harding That Wiclef mainteined sundrie hainous Heresies The. 3. Chapt. Beside these heresies whiche you accompte for none M. Iewel they had sundry other farre greater As for example Among the Articles of Wiclef condemned in the Councel of Constance Art 4. this was one That if a Bishop or a Priest be in deadly sinne he doth not order consecrate Lib. 1. cōtra Petilianū ca. 1. Art 6. Art 10. nor baptise This was the plaine heresie of the Donatistes as it appeareth by S. Augustine Item that God ought to obey the Deuil Item that it is against the Scripture that Ecclesiastical Ministers shoulde haue any temporal possessions If this be no greater heresie then the reste M. Iewel then allowe it as you allowe the reste But the gaine is to sweete you can not brooke it Item that no man is a temporal Lorde Art 15. no man is a Prelate no man is a Bishop whiles he is in mortal sinne If ye make this no Heresie then ye denie the Queene to be Queene of England when so euer she falleth into Mortal sinne And whereas by your doctrine ye make euery sinne mortal vtterly reiecting the distinction of venial sinnes the Quene as no man elles lyuing not without sinne What meane you by this doctrine to allowe her in this case for no Quene of England She is muche beholden vnto you Item by Wiclef the common people maie at their arbitriment correcte their Lordes when they doo amisse Art 17. If you and your fellowes wil allowe this for a true Doctrine and preache it in your Pulpites lustily ye shal like the people ioilily and wel and thereof doubtelesse wil followe suche order and obedience as becommeth your Gospel and as Satan the Authour of it shal be pleased withal Suche the like and worse were the Heresies of Huss and Waldo These Articles and many other were recorded both in the general Councel of Constance Cōcil Cōstant Sess 8. pag. 96. and in your felowe Fox in his booke of the Deuilles Martyrs But touching Iohn Hus sith ye make him so godly a man and so voide of al Errours and Heresies how wil you defend him for that so commonly he said Masse whereat ye enueigh and raile so muche Masse said by Hus. Looke in the Teutonical historie of the Councel of Constance written by one Huldrick Reichental Citizen of Constance and ye shal finde by him reported who liued at that very time and marked wel what happened 〈◊〉 those daies that Iohn Hus oftentimes said Masse in his hostes house during the time of his abode in Constance and that the people came much vnto it Itaque Dominica Oculi quae tertia est in Quadragesima In histor Teutonica de Concil Costātien vbi celebrasset Missam mane c. When he had said Masse saith he in the Sundaie named Oculi whiche is the third Sundaie in Lent And this did Hus not onely before he had read the Bookes of Wiklef by whiche he was carried awaie into an other Gospel but also at the ende of his life euen a litle before for his detestable heresies he was burnte as it is at large reported by the said Reichental and witnessed by Ioannes Cochlaeus lib. 2. De Historia Hussitarum The 4. chapt Pag. 11. In the matter of planting the faith among the Britaines and the English M. Iewel telleth vs againe a longe tale which he tolde vs before in his Replie the vntruthes whereof are already largely and specially confuted in the Returne of vnthruthes vpon his Replie M Ievvel dissēbleth al ansvvere made to his vntruthes Art 3. pag. 124. sequent Wherein he dissembleth vtterly al answer made thereunto though it be wel knowen that he hath seene the said Returne and that he had one with the first presented vnto him at Oxforde at what time the Quenes Matie was there in progresse In that page he belieth extremely Theodoritus S. Augustine the Apostle of the English nation sclaūdered by M. Ievvel vnder the name of Golfridus Monemuthensis Nicephorus and Galfridus of Mounmouth sclaundering immoderately vnder Golfridus name our blessed Apostle S Augustine See the Returne pag. 30. In the page following he belieth Beda twise first applying that to the English menne which he spake of the Britaines namely of 7. Bishoppes and one Archebishop c. For what soeuer he telleth vs of the Queene King Ethelbertes wife who being a Frenche woman liued in the exercise of her Religion that she was Christened in among the Christian people of Fraunce certaine it is that our English Nation of whom in my Answer to his Chalenge I spake and not of the Britaines were not Christiās before S. Augustine came sent by S. Gregorie frō Rome Secondly he belieth Beda in saying as out of his ecclesiastical storie that the Christians of our Countrie vtterly refused to receiue this newe Apostle with his religion For Bede speaketh only of the Britaine or welshe Bishoppes but nothing so muche as M. Iewel fableth They refused to obey him as their Archebishop they refused not his religion They were also in many pointes Schismatikes as Bede in the same place recordeth whom M. Iewel here so commendeth See Bede either in Latine or in English lib. 2. cap. 2. The matter is of right good importance and worthy to be tried Pag. 12. The 5. Chapt. The iudgement of Constantine the great in a cause Ecclesiastical betwen Cacilianus and Donatus à Casis nigris he reneweth againe M. Ievvel in the Defence repeteth againe the old stuffe of his Replie in many pointes as if the same were not ansvvered vtterly dissembling the Answer made thereunto in the Returne Art 4. pag. 105. sequēt Pag. 14. He bringeth in againe the commō obiections against the Real Presence out of Tertullian and S. Augustine dissembling vtterly
against Gods Truth I had thought M. Iewel that the doctrine whiche teacheth vs to obeye God more then menne were fulfilled rather by suffering the penaltie of mans lawe or wil being contrarie to Goddes Lawe and wil then by resisting man put in authoritie by God as S. Peter who wrote the foresaid wordes suffered scourging Act. 5. contumelies and emprisonment rather then he would obey the Magistrate commaunding him not to preache nor teache in the name of Iesus If the prince commaunde Heresie or Idolatrie the waie to obey both God and the Prince is to keepe thee from yelding to Heresie or committing of Idolatrie and for Goddes sake to susteine the pounishment what soeuer the Prince putteth vpon the breakers of his commaundement For it is two thinges and much different to obey the Prince in an vnlawful request and to take Armes against the Prince Round capped Ministers Both we God be praised for the Catholike faith and your Rounde capped Ministers for their Cappes and Hattes refuse to obey the Quenes Maiesties commaundement The Prīce not to be obeied by M. Iewels Diuinitie vvhen Gods cause is touched touching matters of conscience bicause we knowe right wel and they pretende to thinke also that by suche commaundement of the Prince Goddes glorie is touched In whiche case you saie M. Iewel the Prince is not to be obeyed Yet God be praised neither we nor they doo take Armes or attempte any force against our Prince as these Nobles of Scotland haue done We haue not so learned S. Peters lesson We haue not so learned to obeye God more then man But we doo rightly iudge and protest such demeanure to be an open disobediēce both to God and to man And yet saie you M. Iewel and that in your booke dedicated for a singular present vnto the Quenes most excellent Maiestie that these Nobles of Scotland had learned S. Peters lesson Tel vs in good sooth if the Catholike Nobilitie and Commons of England who take your heresies to be against Gods truthe as they are in deede shoulde deale with the Quenes Maiestie for matters of Religion whiche God forbid as the Nobles of Scotland haue dealte with their liege Soueraine would you defende their so doing by S. Peter and the prophete Dauid and saie that God is more to be obeyed then man I perceiue you are so selfe willed and so addicted to your faction that if you were a Papiste you would doo no lesse and be as ready to helpe suche a matter forwarde in England as Beza your good brother in Fraunce as the Gues here in the lowe Countries and as Knox in Scotland haue benne But we openly protest before God and the worlde that we condemne and defie al such attemptes I meane that any Subiecte or Subiectes what so euer of their owne priuate authoritie should take Armes against their Prince for matters of Religion This we doo teache to be plaine disobedience bothe to God and to the Prince This haue your Nobles of Scotland done more then once And therefore you haue done vntruely and lewdly I wil not saie traiterously to the preiudice of the Quenes Maiesties owne safetie in defending them and in calling their outragious attemptes suche obedience as S. Peter taught which was suche Treason and Rebellion as S. Paule condemneth Rom. 13. saying Let euery soule be subiecte to the higher powers c. The Doctours whom you allege make clearely against those Nobles Leo de passione Domini Serm. 10. whose rebellion you defende Leo saith To geue vnto Caesar that whiche is Caesars is not to rebel against Caesar but to helpe Caesar But your Nobles rebelled against their Prince Ergo they gaue not that to Caesar whiche was Caesars Againe the Christians of whom S. Ambrose speaketh Ambrosius lib. 5. Epist 33. said to the Emperour Rogamus Auguste non pugnamus we beseche thee Noble Emperour we fight not But your Nobles fought against their Prince they humbly besought not their Prince And yet ô extreme impudencie these places you allege to shewe the obedience of those Nobles After this as thoughe al the eares of Englande were stopped and their wittes bewitched you conclude in this wise Iewel pag. 17. To conclude the Queene of Scotland is stil in quiet possession of her estate Harding And what wil you sticke to saie or write M. Iewel whiche doo saie write and set out in printe suche a palpable and manifest falsehod Suche I saie as euen the very Tankerdbearers of London and al others of the basest sorte besides can witnesse against you What was not the Queene of Scotland of late imprisoned in her owne realme And had she not benne in prison long before your booke came forth And is a Prince cast in prison by his owne Subiectes stil in quiet possession of his estate What wil you make vs beleeue that the Reuerend Fathers the old and only true Bishoppes of our countrie are nowe stil in quiet possession of their Bishoprikes whom al England knoweth to haue susteined emprisonment these eight yeres and more for their constant profession Gods holy name be blessed of Gods Truthe Goe M. Iewel and tel this tale in the new founde Ilandes of India For not only al England but al Fraunce Spaine Germanie Italie yea as it maie be thought a good parte of Turkie it selfe can controlle you of this most infamous lye that the Queene of Scotland is stil in quiet possession of her estate God keepe you and your brethren in suche a quiet possession if ye wil teache the truthe no better then in this Princes daies ye haue taughte Yet you adde farther and saie of the Quene of Scotland Iewel Ibidem And shee is obeied of her subiectes as farre as is conuenient for godly people to obey their Prince Harding Lo a Quene being the right prince of a realme violently and besides al order of law by her subiectes thrust out of her roial estate is yet obeied of her subiectes so farre as is conuenient for godly people to obey their Prince Then by your doctrine M. Iewel it is conuenient for godly people violently to bereue their prince of princely estate if they like not his Religion and yet in so doing they obey Let vs suppose halfe a realme to be Catholiques whom ye cal Papistes halfe Protestantes Shal the Papistes depose their Protestant Prince shal the Protestant Subiectes depose their Papist Prince If ye teache not this what is that ye teache Are not you nowe one of them that teache Subiectes to take Armes against their Prince Thus muche and more whiche I omitte haue you said of the Quene of Scotland and yet how promised you that you woulde saie nothing Truely it had benne better for you and more for your honestie to haue said nothing in deede and to haue dissembled the whole matter as you haue done many other special matters and suche as be of greatest importance in my Confutation then thus to haue bewraied your traiterous
This declaration and determination you take to be a grosse and a palpable errour For you are not ashamed you saie of Berengarius doctrine But Sir if this were a grosse and a palpable Errour how say you then did al those Patriarkes Archebisshoppes Bishoppes Abbates Doctours and learned Priestes grossely and palpably erre Did the Emperours both of the Grecians and of the Latines the Kinges of Fraunce Spaine England Hierusalem Cyprus whose Ambassadours and Oratours were there representing the personnes of their Princes and people to them subiecte did al these also erre with al their people and subiectes grossely and palpably This question then I demaund of you M. Iewel At these daies and in that age where was the Churche of Christe By you al erred grossely and palpably Berengarius him selfe whose doctrine was there condemned had both recanted his Heresie that you holde now and was longe before that time dead and buried There was not a man liuing at that daie who was knowen in the vnitie of the Churche to maineteine that doctrine whiche that Councel condemned and whiche you now doo mainteine Only Almaricus Almaricus is noted of the Chronographers to haue liued about the time of that Councel and to haue holden the heresie of Berengarius Pantaleō Bernard Lutzenburg Gaguinus Lib. 6. Pag. 48. But M. Iewel hath plainely renounced this Almaricus He said before of Abailard and Almarike and certaine other we haue no skil They are none of ours Then as I said there was not so muche as one man knowen at that time in the vnitie of the Churche and allowed by your iudgement to haue holden the opinion by that General Councel condemned This being so either that Councel helde the vnitie of Christes Churche or elles at that time Christe had no Churche at al. But Christes Churche endureth for euer Pag. 32. you haue your felfe before confessed it therefore we must beleue that the said Councel helde the vnitie of Christes Church and the doctrine by the Fathers of the same approued is the true and Catholique doctrine of the Churche and your Sacramentarie opinion to the contrarye at this daie is a condemned heresie In like sorte by Induction we might discourse of the other General Councelles But this one for example maie suffice to proue that the same pointes of doctrine which you cal grosse and palpable Errours M. Ievvel acknovvlegeth al the partes of doctrine vvher in he varieth from vs to be approued by the Churche in General Councelles fully discussed and confirmed in Councelles are no Errours at al but Catholike verities and truthes tried and confirmed by the highest and most infallible Authoritie that is in earth And we haue al good cause to reioise M. Iewel that by the force of truthe ye are driuen so freely and so plainely to graunt vnto vs the confirmation and Approbation of Councelles for al such pointes of doctrine as we defende against you termed by you modestly I trowe and without heate or choler Grosse and palpable Errours He must needes be a great fauourer of your secte that vpon the warrant of your mouth only wil holde the general determinations of Councelles for grosse and palpable Errours And very grosse must he be that seeth not the proude Luciferly sprite breathing forth of you in such a malapert and sawcy controllement of them whom God ordeined in their time to gouerne his Church No no M. Iewel your mouth is no iuste measure your penne is no right square your verdite is very insufficient for a dew resolutiō thereof to be taken in matters of such importance Yet haue you forsooth an example for your so doing and that of no lesse man then S. Augustine him selfe For thus you inferre to iustifie your former asseuerations Iewel Ibidem August Contra Maximin lib. 3. c. 14. Therefore vve maie iustly saie to you as S. Augustine sometime said to Maximinus the Arian heretike Neither maie I laie to thee the Councel of Nice nor maiest thou laie to me the Councel of Ariminum either of vs thinking thereby to finde preiudice against the other But let vs laie matter to matter cause to cause and reason to reason by the Authoritie of the Scriptures Harding How litle this place of S. Augustine serueth M. Iewels purpose and how falsly by him it is alleged How your therefore foloweth M. Iewel I see not The .19 Chapt. excepte you wil reason thus The later Councelles haue confirmed grosse and palpable errours Therefore you wil not that we should laye them against you no more then S. Augustine would laye the Nicene Coūcel against Maximinus the Arian See you not howe vntowardly this your therefore foloweth For admit that we graunted you that the late Councelles were erroneous which we wil not ne may not in any wise graunt you yet you wil not I trowe saie that the Nicene Councel also was erroneous If the Nicene Coūcel were not erroneous but a most Autentike and Catholique Councel what deduction can you make from the one to the other If S. Augustine had refused the Nicene Councel as you refuse the late Councelles that is if he had condemned the Nicene Councel of grosse and palpable errours as you doo condemne the later Councelles then had the example of S. Augustine serued your turne this being presupposed that these later Councelles were suche as you sclaunder them to be Now S. Augustine doth not so put of the Nicene Councel either as an erroneous Councel or as an Authoritie insufficient whereby to controlle the Heretike but partely bicause the Heretike quarelled about the name of an other Councel at Ariminum which was no lawful Councel in deede but a schismatical and heretical conuenticle and yet were there at it 800. Bishoppes but for wante of Damasus the Popes confirmation Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 23. Theodor. lib. 2. cap. 21. as Sozomenus and Theodoritus doo write it was accompted for none partely also bicause he sawe him selfe sufficiently instructed otherwise with holy scriptures to confute the Arian For these two causes to cut of occasion of longer brabling and to drawe the sooner to an issue for it was in an open disputation before a multitude not in priuate writinges carried to and fro S Augustine was content to laie aside the aduantage that he had of the Nicene Councel vpon condition the Arian would brable no more of the Councel of Ariminum This did S. Augustine of Christian policie and by occasion then ministred and not as geuing example to others to shake of al Authoritie of Councelles as you doo M. Iewel of a great many Againe you require vs to presse you no more with the late general Councelles of Laterane of Constāce of Florence of Trent and such other as the Arian required not to be pressed with the Nicene but you haue not so much as the name of one Councel of your parte for the whiche we might by waie of composition yelde our Councelles that you also might yelde
yet this man had he ben in Italie and seene what is there continually donne howe the Exorcistes doo in deede cast forth Deuilles in manner weekely as diuers of our owne Contriemenne that haue ben present can reporte he would for very shame if any were in him haue kepte in that negatiue Verely I feare me he wil one daie procede further and vtterly denie the Order of Bisshops to be necessarie bicause he can franckely say that the Bishops preache not his lustly Caluinian Gospel Yet I trowe he wil be good maister to the Superintendentes of England that be of his owne profession of whom some preache not and some haue not the learning to preache nor yet to tel a wise tale The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuis 2. Pag. 98. Yet notvvithstanding vvee say that there neither is nor can be any one man vvhiche may haue the vvhole superioritie in this Vniuersal state for that Christe is euer presente to assiste his Churche and needeth not any man to supplie his roome as his onely heire to al his Substance and that there can be no one mortal creature vvhiche is hable to comprehende or conceiue in his minde the vniuersal Churche that is to vvit al the partes of the vvorlde muche lesse hable rightly and duely to put them in Order and to Gouerne them Iewel Pag. 98. M. Hardinges ansvvere hereto is too long and tedious Harding I dare wel saie it is too tedious to you and glad would you be to be rid of it if you wist whiche waie Acknowlege the truthe M. Iewel returne from your errour leaue of scoffing suppresse singularitie deliâ—e not in the vaine praises that your ignorant fauourers geue you feare God thinke you can not continue in in this Brauerie alwaies then shal you finde liking in my answere and thinke it nothing to tedious Certaine it is the mater is not so sclenderly to be answered Iewel Pag. 98. VVhere vve saie no one mortal man is hable to vvealde the burthen of the vvhole Churche of God M. Harding ansvvereth vvhere any thing is in deed there vvhether it maie be or not to discusse it is needelesse Therefore vvhether any one man can be superiour and Chiefe ouer the vvhole Church vve leaue to speake that so it is thus vve prooue Euery parishe hath his seueral vicare or person and euerie Diocesâ— his ovvne Bisshâ—ppe Ergo vvhat reason is it there be one Chiefe Gouernour of the vvhole Christen people c. His firste reason concludeth very vveakely Euerie Parishe is Gouerned by one Vicare or Personne and euerie Diocese is gouerned by one seueral Bishop Ergo there is one vniuersal Gouernour ouer the vvhole Churche of Christe Here is neither order in reason nor sequele in nature Therefore of any man vvould denie the argument M. Harding vvere â—â—uer hable to make it good Harding The iustification of this Argument The .10 Chapt. Yeas forsooth the Argument may be proued very wel by this axioma or dignitie in nature vpon the which the Argument is grounded That the whole ought to be gouerned by one general Head whose seueral partes can not be gouerned without seueral Heades If your leisure serue you you may nowe traine the Argument that I was neuer hable to make good as you say for lacke of order in reason and sequele in nature if ye altogether haue not forgotten your Logique whereof you set vs forth so often crakes into the very forme of a good and perfite Syllogisme If your courage then serue you to denie the Argument you shal but disgrace your selfe in denying the groundes of that arte wherein you haue placed a great parte of your glorie and put your selfe to paine to make vs some newe Logique of your owne that menne may trust too Searche diligently the cause without scoffing and wrangling why the seueral partes of the vniuersal Churche Parishes Dioceses prouinces are not hable to be kepte in any good order without seueral heades the selfe cause shal infourme you that the vniuersal Churche may muche lesse be kepte in order without one general Head Render what causes you can M. Iewel you shal neuer be hable to auoide it before any learned companie but that the one shal folowe of the selfe same causes as wel as the other Whereas you runne to disprooue myne argument by making the like of euerie kingdome ruled by one Prince inferring Ergo there ought to be one vniuersal Prince to rule ouer the whole worlde I see no such absurditie in the conclusion of this Argument the seueral rightes of Princes reserued vntouched but that if you should talke with Aristotle that great Philosopher you should see good cause to graunt it If there were but one good Monarke in the whole worlde would there not be fewer broilles and warres in the worlde then nowe we feele Perhappes when the matter is wel weighed it may seeme the worlde was neuer in better state then when it was gouerned by one good Emperour Let a iuste Viewe be taken of Constantines time the Great Yet it must be confessed there is great difference betwixt the Ciuile gouernemeÌ„t of Princes who maie be permitted to rule their seueral Dominions without one general Head bicause they haue to do but with thinges of the worlde as with earthly goodes landes and such other thinges which may receiue diuers kindes of rule without danger of Soules and the Ecclesiastical gouernment whose chiefe respect is to keepe vnitie of Faith in the bonde of peace which may not receiue any alteration without great danger to our Saluation Therefore there is greater cause to haue one general Head or Supreme gouernour without whom this vnitie can not be kepte any long time Hiero. aduersus Iouinianum lib. 1. as S. Hierome witnesseth to rule the whole Churche in matters of Saluation then to haue one Head to rule ouer the whole worlde in wordely matters To your other scorneful Argument of one general Shepehearde to be hadde ouer al the flockes of 〈◊〉 throughout the whole world I wil frame answere when you can prooue that God hath as great care to bring al the shepe in the worlde to the selfe same glorie of life euerlasting as he hath to bring menne or that he hath appointed them any one general ende the whiche they can not atteine without the hauing of one general shepeherd to gouerne the whole kinde But S. Paule putteth al suche fonde reasons to silence by this question where he asketh 1. Cor. 9. Nunquid de bobus cura est Deo Hath God any such special care of kine and Oxen as he hath of menne Put vp such shepeherdes pipes for shame M. Iewel and leaue to piper vs vp such trifles If you minde thus to continue euery ignorant Reader at length shal espie what litle good stuffe ye vtter I made not these reasons for that menne should take them for very precise Demonstrations or for that euery one of them alone had ful force to conclude as though the whole weight
proufe is nedelesse the thing is manifest * Harding Here treating of Succession as thou seest Reader I haue among other things brought forth TertulliaÌ„ demauÌ„ding of the Heretikes the Original of their Churches Tertul. lib. de praescription and the Register of their Bishops succeding one an an other from the beginning til his tyme. Againe I haue alleged S. Augustine naming 38. Popes of Rome in order August Epist 165 and thereof coÌ„cluded that bicause neuer a one of them was a Donatist the Donatists were al Heretikes Whereupon I also concluded that seing among al the Popes from S. Peter til this daie none was of M. Iewels opinion he and his felowes the Zuinglians and Caluinistes must by the rule S. of Augustine be taken for Heretiques For the true Churche is where the true ordinarie and manifest Succession is from the Apostles til these our dayes This only I require of thee gentle reader that thou woldest vouchesafe to reade this matter through and not to iudge before al be heard For in deede following M. Iewelles confuse order of writing I could not dispose my thinges in such Methode and Order as the weight of the matter requireth Bicause the matter is of importance I intend to leaue out no parte of M. Iewelles woordes whereby he maie seeme to impugne the Catholique doctrine And by the treatie of this one poynte it will appeare what huge bookes we should write if we should directe a ful answer to euerie parte of his idle talke in the pretensed Defence conteined Thus then he beginneth Iewel Pag. 127. Here hath M. Harding taken some paines more then ordinarie He thought if he could by any coloure make the vvorld beleeue vve haue neither Bisshoppes nor Priestes nor Deacons this daie in the Church of England he might the more easily claime the vvhole right vnto himselfe And in deede if it vvere certaine that the religion and truth of God passeth euermore orderly by Succession and none othervvise then vvere Succession vvhereof he hath tolde vs so long a tale a verie good substantial Argument of the Truth Harding Irenaeus saith it is a certaine Rule to knowe the Truth by For hauing reckened twelue Popes who in order succeded after S. Peter to wit Linus Anacletus Clemens Euaristus Alexander Sixtus Telesphorus Hyginus Pius Aniceâ—â— Soter and Eleutherius who then was the twelfth Bishop from the Apostles Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 3. immediatly he saith thus Hac ordinatione successione ea quae est ab Apostolis in Ecclesia Traditio veritatis praeconiatio peruenit vsque ad nos Et est pleâ—issima haec â—stensio vnim eandem viuificatricem fidem esse quae in Ecclesia ab Apostolis vsque nunc sit coÌ„seruata troditain veritate By this order and Succession the Tradition and preaching of the truth whiche is in the Churche from the Apostles time came euen to our daies And this is a most ful declaration that the faith whiche is kept in the Churche and deliuered in truth from the Apostles time euen til this present hower is the one selfe same faith which is the causer of life and of saluation He saith it is a most ful declaration of the true and liuely faith And you wil confesse I trow that where that faith is there is the true Churche of God Such a Succession of Bishoppes in diuers countries we haue and can shew it from the Apostles time til this daie As the rew and order of Popes in al Chronicles doth shew to the eie and witnesseth to the vnderstanding But such a Succession M. Iewel and his fellowes haue not therefore by his owne confession we haue a good substantial Argument of the Truth Iewel Pag. 127. But Christe saith In cathedra Moysi sederunt Scribae Pharisaei by order of succession the scribes Math. 22. and Pharisees sitte in Moyses chaier Harding Wel handled M. Iewel You bring these wordes as though Christe had spoken them in the reproche of Succession Whereas Christ in that place made an ArgumeÌ„t for Succession in this wise Super cathedram Moysi sederunt Scriba Pharisaei Math. 23. omnia ergo quaecunque dixerint vobis seruate facite Vpon the chaier of Moyses the Scribes and Pharisees haue sitten Therefore kepe ye and do ye what so euer they saie vnto you or commaund you to kepe Could you not see that Ergo M. Iewel whiche is to saie Therefore Could you not perceiue that Christ made a plaine argument why and why only the Scribes and Pharisees should be obeied The matter goeth as if in moe wordes it had ben thus said The Scribes and Pharisees be naughtie men their workes are not to be folowed they â—ie heauy and importable burdens laying them on mens shoulders Math. 23. but they themselues wil not so much as once mâ—â—â— them with their finger They do al their workes for a shew Thus Christ him selfe doth paint them forth al whiche notwithstanding for onely Successions sake bicause by order of Succession they sit in Moyses chaier which my father and I haue planted in respecte thereof doo ye and kepe what so euer they commaund you to doo and kepe Mark the vvord of keeping Marke that he bindeth the people to obeie the very Scribes for Successions sake and to obeye them in keeping and obseruing the former lawes and rites To keepe I saye Beware of that Bishop who not succeding but vsurping the Chaier of good men as M. Iewel doth hauing iustled him selfe into the Chaier of good S. Osmund and others mo in the Churche of Sarisburie doth yet commaund the people not to keepe thinges but to cast them away These nevv Bisshoppes vvil not the people to kepe their faith but to chaÌ„ge their faith There is no Bishop of this newe Religion that commaundeth the people to keepe their olde faith and law but alwaies he biddeth them to change it But Christe bad the people to doo that whiche the Pharisees commaunded them to keepe and not to folow their deedes The Pharisees killed Christe but by keeping their lawes and Orders they should neuer haue come thereto If euer place of holy Scripture made for any truth in the Gospel this place which M. Iewel bringeth against Succession maketh for it and so for it that it can neuer be auoided What Doctor euer wrote vpon the holy Scriptures who might not now be brought for a witnesse of this my assertion S. Augustine saith that Christe made the people secure concerning euil Rulers Ne propter illos doctrinae salutaris Cathedra descreretur August Epist 166. in qua coguntur etiam mali bona dicere Neque enim suae sunt quae dicunt sed Dei qui in cathedra Vnitatis doctrinam posuit veritatis Lest for their sakes the chaier of holesom Doctrine should be forsaken in the whiche yea wicked men are forced to saie that whiche is good For the thinges whiche they saie are not their owne but Gods who in
ad Antichristum velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent VVould God they vvere not al gonne by consent together from religion to superstition from saith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist These fevv vvordes considering either the speaker or the place vvhere they vvere spoken may seme sufficient Harding If you had considered either the speaker or the place so as you ought to haue donne you might haue benne ashamed to haue alleged the woordes of a Catholike Prelate for your purpose For what soeuer he meant by them you may be wel assured he meant not to say that the Catholique Churche was gonne from faith to infidelitie or from Christe to Antichrist Otherwise he him selfe would not haue stil continued in that Catholique Churche which had seemed to him to haue lacked faith Cornelius episcopus Bitōtinus and Christe But nowe the man is knowen in al Italie and is aliue to this daye who stil continueth in dayly preaching and in exhorting al men to flie from your heresies to the Catholike faith and to keepe them in the Churche so that his deedes do wel shewe what he meant by his wordes The whiche rule S. Augustine would haue kepte in the vnderstanding of what so euer Writers A lesson hovv to vnderstande mennes vvordes in matter of Religion Contra epist Parmen li. 3. cap. 4. and specially touching religion And who so euer doth not so vnderstand mennes wordes by their deedes vpon his blindnesse he cryeth out in this sorte Incredibilis est coecita hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tanta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorum factorúmque patesceret vsque adeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt commemorent sanctae Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis prophetarum quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarum It is an incredible blindnesse of menne and verely I knowe not howe it might be beleeued that there is suche frowardnesse in menne onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so fast closed that they allege the testimonies of holy scripture and do not consider by the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded And straight after where S. Augustine saith those wordes he sheweth by example what he meant Hieremie had written Hier. 2. what hath Chaffe to doo with the Wheate The Donatistes thereupon reasoned that the Catholikes were Chaffe and them selues Wheate but saith S. Augustine by waie of exposition there did Hieremie that said the Iewes were Chaffe forsake their Church and fellowship No verely How so euer then Hieremie the prophete meant we ought to vnderstand his wordes according to his deedes And seing as concerning his deedes he liued in one Temple and faith with them whom he called Chaffe we may be wel assured that by the name of Chaffe he meant not that the Iewes had not true Faith and Religion but only that they had not true Charitie and Obedience Euen so if M. Iewel would consider that the Bishop of Bitonto goeth not from Italie to Geneua nor to Germanie nor to England but both abideth stil in his Bisshoprike and hath so much preached against these present Heresies of Luther Zuinglius and Caluin that now three whole Volumes of his eloquent Italian Sermons are extant in print if he would haue considered this he might haue benne ashamed with such a great brauarie and so ofte to haue alleged a Catholike mannes woordes against Rome the mother Churche of al Catholikes S. Augustine calleth it an incredible blindnesse so to doo and suche as no man would beleeue except he saw it vsed But by whom Verely by Heretikes who hauing no truth for them doo stil make vaine bragges and shewes of woordes when the very deedes of them whose woordes they bring are against them Which thing I stand the longer vppon bicause M. Iewel hath vsed this practise aboue a thowsand times in his pretensed Defence M. Ievvel euery vvhere allegeth their vvordes for him vvhom by their deedes he vvel knoweth to be against him Aboue a thousand tymes I say he hathe alleged the woordes of Schoolemen Gloses Summistes and Canonistes for his purpose whereas he wel knoweth they beleeued al suche as he is to be detestable Heretiques and for suche condemned them Yet must they be brought in and that so often so seriouslie and with suche Preambles as though he woulde beare the worlde in hande they were cleare of his side Neither did Cornelius the Bisshoppe of Bitonto speake of the Bisshoppes of Rome specially as M. Iewel would beare the Readers in hande Bitōtinus in oratione habita in Concil Tridentino but generally of the Christians saying that they haue wandered like sheepe in hilles and feeldes and that the chiefe of them are turned from authoritie vnto Lordlynes from right vnto wronge and would God saith he they were not vtterly as it were with one consent bowed from Religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist Neither doth he say they are al gonne as M. Iewel englisheth the woordes Hovv M. Ievvel falsifieth his allegation The woorde al is not there Againe he saith not they are gonne by consent altogether but velut prorsus vnanimes as it were vtterly of one minde The worde velut as it were doth temper his woordes but M. Iewel hath leafte out velut and hath put in this worde al lest if the sentence of that Bishop should be thus tempered it should not seeme greuous inough His meaning was to complaine as euery good man dayly doth vppon the vices of menne who liue as if they had neither Faithe nor Religion And that woulde haue appeared most plaine if M. Iewel had not cutte of the later woordes of Cornelius vncourteously stopping him from telling out his whole tale For in the very same sentence it foloweth A Christo ad Antichristum quin à Deo ad Epicurum vel ad Pythagoram velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent Would God they had not as it were vtterly with one consent gonne a side from Christe to Antichriste yea rather from God to Epicure or to Pythagoras These last woordes whiche made al plaine were omitted by M. Iewel as his custome is and the authours tale is falsified and his woordes abused For any man woulde soone iudge that they goe not to Epicure or Pythagoras to the ende to mainteine the doctrine and opinions that those Philosophers helde Pardonne me good Reader if herein I seeme to long For at this tyme I doo but as it were geue thee a shewe what and howe muche might be said in euery other Article of the Booke if I thought it labour worthe to discusse them particularly For I assure thee in my conscience there is not any thing in this pretensed Defence whiche might not be wel and easily answered were not that it seemeth to me a thing both superfluous so to answere suche heapes of
Iewel that both I and M. Richard Dominike that Reuerend and vertuous Priest Prebendary also there whom in your visitation for the Quenes highnes ye appointed to be a prisoner as also my selfe in myne owne house at Sarisburie vtterly and with expresse wordes refused to geue our voices and consent to your pretésed Election Truly we accōpted it no lesse crime to haue chosen you Bishop of Sarisburie then to haue chosen Arius Eunomius Nestorius Eutyches Aerius Pelagius or any other the like Heretike Wherefore reuoke so manie Vntruthes you haue here vttered with one breath Your Election was neither free nor Canonical the whole Chapter was not present I was not one of that cōpanie I gaue not my consent Now that you haue so impudētly affirmed al this notwithstanding take heed that I may vse your owne wordes your owne breath blowe not against you al good and true men blowe not against you your owne conscience which is more to be feared blowe not against you and before God the true and iust Iudge blowe not you vpside downe Ievvel Pag. 130. As touching the impertinent tales of Ischyras and Zacchaeus they touch vs nothing they vvere none of ours vve knovv them not Our Bishops are made in fourme and order as they haue ben euer by free Electiō of the Chapter by Consecration of the Archbishop and other three Bishops Harding These true Histories not tales M. Iewel touch you in this behalfe bicause Priestes are not so consecrated with you that they may stand to offer the Sacrifice at the Aulter as it was reported of Ischyras that he had done As for breaking of a Chalice Athanas in Apolo 2. whiche was laid to Macarius charge Athanasius Priest who pulled Ischyras from the Aulter for that he tooke vpon him to celebrate the mysteries being made no Priest by laying on of handes of a Bishop with you this is a smal faulte For your felowes haue broken certaine hundredes of holy chalices in these low coūtries without making any cōscience therof at al. Moreouer Epiphanius writeth of Zacchaeus Contra haeret to 2. lib. 3. ludenter sancta Mysteria contrectabat sacrificia cùm laicus esset impudenter tractabat He boldly handled the holy Mysteries and whereas he was a Laye man he impudently handled the Sacrifices What Sacrifices I praie you hath your Religion which a Laye man may not handle as wel as a Priest But bicause you haue abandoned al external Sacrifice and Priesthood therefore you iudge the example of Zacchaeus belongeth nothing vnto you Certainely by those examples it is proued that ye are no Bishops and so farre they be not impertinent Your Bishoppes are made you saie in fourme and order What fourme and order meane you The fourme and order of these nevv Bishoppes Meane you the olde whiche was vsed in the firste fiue hundred yeres or the newe In the olde fourme after the Election notise was geuen to the Bishop of Rome and to al the Bishops of the Church that such a man was lawfully chosen Bishop within the Church and not schismatically And so al the other Bishops knew by the Communicatorie letters Cyprian li. 3. ep 13. to whom they should sende or of whom they should receiue such letters But so ye were not made Bishoppes If ye were shew vs to what Bishoppes out of England ye wrote any such letters After that the custome of those letters became to be out of vse the only Bishop of Romes Confirmation was in steede of the said notise and by him surely you were not confirmed And yet seing he is a Bishop if ye wil not graunt him the Confirmation ye ought at the lest to put him to knowledge of your Election that he may know you to be men with whom he may Communicate But for as much as you wrote not to him in that matter ye shewe that ye be no Catholike Bishops Fot neuer was there any Catholike Bishop in the Church which did not one waye or other shew him selfe to communicate with S. Peters Successour from the beginning til this daye Hovve vvas M. Ievv cōsecrate by an Archbishop and how the Archbishop him selfe But ye were made you saie by the Consecration of the Archebishop and other three Bishoppes And how I praie you was your Archebishop him selfe Consecrated What three Bishops in the Realme were there to laye handes vpon him You haue now vttered a worse case for your selues then was by me before named For your Metropolitane who should geue authoritie to al your Consecrations him selfe had no lawful Consecration If you had ben Consecrated after the forme and order which hath euer ben vsed ye might haue had Bishops out of Fraunce to haue consecrated you in case there had lacked in England But now there were auncient Bishops inough in Englād who either were not required or refused to consecrate you which is an euident signe that ye sought not such a Consecratiō as had ben euer vsed but such a one wherof al the former Bishops were ashamed Iewel Pag. 130. Our Bishops are made by the admission of the prince And in this sorte not long sithens the Pope him selfe vvas admitted Platina in Seuerino Papa and as Platina saith vvithout the Emperours letters patentes vvas no Pope as hereafter it shal be shevved more at large Therefore vve neither haue Bishops vvithout Church nor Churche vvithout Bishops Harding The admission of the Prince is not reproued of vs The admission of a man by the Prince to a Bishoprike when it is done in his place For it is conuenient that as in the old time beside the Clergie whiche of right did chose the bishop the people were called to see who was chosen and to shew whether they liked or misliked him so much more the Prince who beareth the peoples person should haue his place of assent and consent in naming the Bishop and in commending him to the ende he may gouerne his shepe with the more loue and quiet when no man withstandeth his Election And in that sorte it was in deede the custome that euery Bishop of Rome should expect the Emperours consent vntil the Emperours them selues partly being content to remitte that custome did commit al to the Clergie and partly leafte it by prescription Neither was it of late that this custome ceased but wel neare seuen hundred yeres ago In Hadriano 3. as it may be seene in Platina But seing your Bishops were neither consecrated by those who lineally succeded the Apostles nor haue by your owne confession more power by Gods law then a Priest you both haue false Bishops without the true Church and a false Churche without true Bishops For the true Church hath Bishops That a Bishop is aboue a Priest which by Gods lawe ought to be aboue Priestes bicause S. Paule writing to Timothee a Bishop 1. Timo. 5. biddeth him not to admit an accusatiō against Priestes without two witnesses licencing him to admit such
ye must go into the pit of Hel to fetch out Aêrius Pelagius Vigilantius Iouinian Heluidius Manichaeus and such others of condemned memorie to geue light vnto your Churche or els you can bring foorth none at al. For whereas al the Greekes Epiphan Haeres 75 as it may appeare by Epiphanius and al the Latines as it may appeare by S. Augustine condemned him for an heretike who said the prayers of the liue could not helpe the dead what catholike is it possible to bring foorth for the yere of our Lorde three hundred and fiftie or foure hundred who taught as ye now teache that it is not lawful nor profitable to praye for the dead Wel ye are not the light nor the daye Is your doctrine at the least the truth Nay that is the truth which is also the light For the true doctrine is taught in that Church which is built vpon an hil and can not be hid The truth is vniforme Math. 5. but emong you Luther and Zuinglius Caluine and Westphalus Bullinger and Brentius Illyricus and Beza and sundrie other couples and partes agree so wel that a man may easily know them to be false Prophetes For whereas they al disagree yet they are al without that Churche where vnitie is preserued in the perpetual Succession of many Bishops alwaies agreeing in one saith Therefore your doctrine is neither the light nor the daye nor the truth but darkenesse but night but errour Iewel 131. Novv for as much as ye haue thought it so good to examine the petite degree of Bishops of Sarisburie I trust you vvil not thinke it il if I a litle touch the lâ—ke in the Bishops of Rome that vve may thereby the better be hable to see some of the branches of your Succession Harding In dede they of whom you speake are but some of the branches of our Succession For you touch of two hundred and thirtye Bishops of Rome not thirteene and yet our Succession consisteth also of al the Bishops in Italie Spaine Fraunce Germanie Sicilie Polonia Hungarie Denmarke Suethen and England euen til king Henrie the eightes time But go too on Gods name touche whom you can I am wel assured you wil plaie the Spider to espie if any poison can be found any where Let vs see with what truth and honestie you blase their faultes The worst that can be said of al the Popes touching doctrine by the Protestantes is here gathered together and laid forth by M. Iewel and the same is truly answered Iewel Pag. 131. Therefore shortly to say you knovv that Pope Marcellinus committed Idolatrie Harding Of S. Marcellinus Martyr and Pope I know that after his Idolatrie whereto he yeelded for feare of death he repented and shed his bloud for Christe and dyed a glorious Martyr euen as S. Paule after that he had persecuted the Churche through grace repented and died for Christes name Who ought now to be more ashamed of S. Marcellinus you that chalenge him for an Idolatour or I that chalenge him for a Martyr The Idolatrie you speake of is gone and pardoned the Martyrdome whereof I speake is euerlastingly crowned in heauen The ende M. Iewel trieth al whereof you should haue taken your iudgement And yet this very Idolatoure bicause he was S. Peters Successour and sate in the first See was in case for the roume he occupied to be iudged of no man in the earth as tâ—e Councel of three hundred and thirtie Bishoppes assembled at Sinuessa pronounced aboue twelue hundred yeres past Tom 1. Concil Primasedes non iudicabitur à quoquaÌ„ The first seate shal not be iudged of any man What haue you wonne now by this example but that you do the world to vnderstand what malicious stomake ye beare against the Popes of Rome whose faultes ye are right glad to espie and blase abroade although they repented of them Verely it would haue becomme a sonne of the Churche to conceele suche actes of frailtie and not to see suche spottes that were with so abundant founteines of teares cleane washed awaie and with the bloude of so glorious Martyrdom quite blotted out Iewel 131. Pope Syluester the secoÌ„d vvas a Coniurer and gaue himselfe vvhole body and soule to the Deuil and by the Deuilles procurement vvas made Pope Harding That Syluester the second came to be Pope malis artibus by euil meanes it is not so cleare a matter as you make it Platina the chiefe author we haue for credite of that Storie vttereth it doubtefully by his Parenthesis vt aiunt as they saie Whereby he geueth vs to vnderstand that he was not hable to auouche it for a certaine truthe but referreth him selfe to the vulgare rumour of the people which most commonly bruteth abroad moe lies and vanities then truthes and certainties How beit Platina Platinae in vitis PontificuÌ„ Pope Syluester 2. his repentance at the ende who tolde you al this added also Poenitentia motus errorem suum coram populo fassus c. being moued with repentance and confessing his errour before the people he first exhorted them al that ambition and the deuilles deceites laide aside they should liue wel And afterward his body was miraculously drawen by horses to the chiefe Church of Rome and there was buried If you beleue the one you must beleue the other sithence it is but one Storie whereof you told the first parte and I the last Whereupon I attribute so much to that holy Succession that I doubte not as euil a man as he once was but God delte the more mercifully with him for his good predecessours sakes who I doubte not prayed for him that he might die penitently and be a saued soule Iewel 131. Pope Zosimus for ambition and claime of gouernment corrupted the holy Councel of Nice Harding You say it Pope Zosimus sclaundered by M. Ievv but neuer did any honest man say it from the beginning of the worlde til this time neither was the same yet euer proued For albeit he alleged such wordes of a certaine Canon as the other copies had not yet did no man lay to his charge that he had corrupted the CouÌ„cel For he alleged that which he found in his own copies I say to you M. Iewel there is nothing shewed by this your tale but that you are a man of il dispositioÌ„ who gladly reporte euil and besides that you finde reported of others inuent your selfe that which vtterly is false to diminish the estimation of a holy man that died eleueÌ„ hundred yeres past Marke the point I say if it be said of any man that euer wrote in the olde time that Pope Zosimus corrupted the Councel of Nice then you or your fellowes did not feine it but if no man said it but bawdy Bale or Illyricus and suche others the like then your part is with liers and sclaunderers and thereafter shal your iudgement be without you repente whiche God graunt you M. Stapleton in the
quenche heate that your Nonnes also if they beginne to be wanton shal take husbandes and so mortifie the lustes of their flesh For making the perfourmance of the Vow but a matter of reason and conuenience ye seeme easily to dispense with their marriages in case of hote and vrgent temptations For so men are wont to dispense with that which semeth reasonable and conuenient when a greater reason seemeth to moue them to the contrarie But let vs leaue your saying to your owne construction The Foūders and chiefe maisters of this nevv Gospel are iudged vnreasonable mē by M. I. him selfe By the same this much you graunte at the least that so many of your Gospel as haue broken their Vow of Chastitie and haue married haue don otherwise then was conuenient and agreable to reason Thus ye make the Founder of your Religion Frier Luther an vnreasonable man Such was Oecolampadius such was Bucer such was Peter Martyr such were in manner al the reste of your fleshly Prelates Teachers Preachers and Ministers who being Religious by taking Yokefelowes vnto them haue broken their Vow and promise to God I canne you thanke M. Iewel for graunting this muche althoughte it be too litle Mary to your companions I doubte not it seemeth too muche And litle thanke doubtelesse shal you haue at their handes for it For the breache of their Vowe being graunted to be against reason and a thing inconuenient how shal Gods people beleeue their doctrine to be reasonable and their liues to be conuenient Sure I am that neither Luther him selfe nor Bucer nor Peter Martyr nor any of the reste could euer be persuaded to acknowledge and confesse so much And were they now a liue they would be offended with you for so saying And how your good married brothers of England wil like you for it I doubte for asmuch at it is not for their profite the people should vnderstand that by your owne confession their Preachers and spiritual Gouernours specially such as were professed in any Religion for certaine it is that they be Votaries by taking wiues haue done the thing that is inconuenient and al together against reason What a hainous crime it is to contemne the vow of Chastitie and to breake promise with God it may be declared in an other place Here onely we take that you confesse your selfe that it is against reason and not conuenient As for the saying you allege out of the third booke of Cyrillus in Leuiticum Forgerie it can serue you to no purpose but to witnesse your forgerie and falshoode For there is no such saying in that booke If any man be moued to breake his vowe vpon warrant of those wordes you are gilty of the crime If the Priestes of England be no Votaries as you say yet what say you to the Priestes of other countries Is it lawful for them of Germanie Fraunce Italie Spaine and of other landes who haue made the vow of chastitie to marrie That it is not lawful I haue sufficiently proued in my Confutation For the Scriptures be plaine that a Vowe made to God is to be perfourmed Neither willed I that which I said in my Confutation to be vnderstanded of your felowes of England onely How excuse you then your brethren of other Countries VVhat hath M. Ievvel to say in defence of the votaries mariages in other lādes besides England that firste gaue the onset and aduentured to set your Gospel a broche What say you for Luther for Peter Martyr your owne good frende and Maister and for many such others who were not onely Priestes but also Religious menne and feared not to yoke them selues in pretensed marriage vnto Nonnes If they did wickedly therein as no man lyuing can excuse them how is not your Gospel builded vpon an euil foundation But this is too large a fielde at this present for vs to walke in I looke stil when you wil come to the point that requireth your direct Answer As for the Priestes of England what moueth you to say they be no Votaries What priuiledge haue they aboue al other Priestes of Christendome at least of the Latine That priestes of England be Votaties and West Churche Who euer said it Who euer wrote it Where euer found you it Or if any where it be found which I trow ye shal neuer be hable to shew in any authentical writer what reason hath the reporter for it O say you it is knowen and confessed But your word M. Iewel is no Gospel Your bare affirmation is of smal credite If ye haue no better proufe for it and ye wil doo by my reade in case you be a Priest be not ouer hasty to take a Yokefelow yet as your companions haue don For surely not withstanding your maruelous knowledge and bold confession you are like to proue deceiued Mary if you be no Priest as I can not tel what to make of you then go to it and God send you better lucke then some of your felowes haue had For proufe that Priestes of England are Votaries this is most certaine that the Vowe of Chastitie is annexed vnto holy Orders by statute of holy Churche and that with most conuenient reason the Church hath ordeined The vovv of chastitie annexed vnto holy Orders that al from a Bishop to a Subdeacon shal vowe Chastitie Which thing the Grecians also admitted though not vniuersally For although they marrie not after holy Orders receiued yet they vse matrimonie before holy Orders contracted Wherfore there is no doubte but euery man that taketh holy Orders be he of England or of what countrie soeuer in the west Church promiseth cōtinencie ipso facto that is to say by the very taking it selfe of Orders whether he expresse it in wordes or holde his peace That the vowe of Chastitie is required at the taking of holy Orders we haue these plaine wordes of S. Gregorie The vovve of Chastitie required at the taking of Subdeaconship by whose procurement our English nation was conuerted to the Faith and at whose handes the Church of England receiued al order and institution necessarie to Christian life Nullum Subdiaconum facere praesumant Episcopi nisi qui se victurum castè promiserit Let Bishops not presume to make any Subdeacon onlesse he promise to liue in chastitie Iustinian that Christian Emperour who liued within fiue hundred yeres after Christe Grego li. 1. epi. 42. gaue the like charge vnto Bishops Neither was it S. Gregorie that first made this Decree or statute Nouell 123. He did but commaund the auncient Order and Tradition of the Churche to be renewed and more exactly to be kepte as certaine others his after commers Bishops of Rome did when they sawe the olde discipline broken and austeritie of life in some parte of the clergie slaked The Fathers of the second Councel of Carthage which was holden aboue eleuen hundred yeres past Concil Carthag 2. Ca. 2. Leo epist 92. ca. 3.