Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	bishop_n	church_n	ordination_n	3,829	5	10.8464	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88157	An answer to nine arguments. Written by T. B. Wherein is plainly from the scriptures shewed, the weaknesse of his arguments, whereby he undertakes to prove both the Church and Ministry of England true; as likewise describing the nature and properties of a true Church and Ministry. Written long since by that faithfull servant of God and his countrey, John Lilburne Lieftenant [sic] Collonell: and now published for further good, by a well-willer to him and the truth.	Lilburne, John, 1614?-1657.	1645 (1645)	Wing L2081; Thomason E25_7; ESTC R212845	46,842	48

of England Antichristian And when you or any other doe by the Authority of the unerring and pure Word of God sufficiently confute what I have writ against it I doe promise you I will be a member of the Church of England againe but if that be not done I will by the strength of the Lord of Hosts for ever separate from Church Ministery and worship in England as all and every one of them Antichristean and false yet thus much I say and doe acknowledge and the Scripture proves it that God hath a people or an elect number in spirituall Babylon yea in the Kingdome of Antichrist part of which the ch of England is and none of them shall perish but ●e eternally saved yet I say it is the duty of all Gods Elect chosen ones that as yet in the whorish ●os●… of the ch of Engl. or in any part of Antichrists regiment i● separate away from it and come out of it least God plague them for their staying there 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 forward 51.6.9.11 2 Cor. 6.16.17 Rev. 14.9.10 18.4 Now from all that which hath been said I frame these Arguments First that every lawfull Pastor Bishop Minister or Officer in the visible Church of Christ ought to have a lawfull call and be lawfully chosen into his Office before he can be a true Officer in the Church of Christ Acts 1.24.25 26. 24.23 Gal. c 11. Heb. 5.4 But the Ministers and Officers in the Church of England have not a lawfull call neither are lawfully chosen to be Officers in the Church of Christ see the Booke of Ordination of Bishops Preists and Deacons compared with the Scripture Therefore all your Ministers are false and Antichristian Officers Rev. 9.3 2. Secondly The doing of those actions that belong to the execution of an office doth not prove a man to be a lawfull officer but a lawfull power instating him into his office Acts 8.4 11.28.24 18.24.26 But all the Ministers in the church of England have nothing to prove the lawfulnes of their standing in their Ministery but the actions of a Minister and are not able to prove that they are instated into their Ministery by vertue of a lawfull power and authority Therefore they are not true Ministers of Christ but false and Antichristian Ministers of Antichrist 3. Againe in the third place upon your own grounds I frame this Argument Those that by their Ministery doe not accomplish the same ends that the Ministery of the Apostles did are no true ministers But the ministers of the church of England doe not accomplish the same ends by their ministery that the ministery of the Apostles did 1 Cor. 12.2 Therefore your ministers are no true ministers So you see I have overthrown your second Argument and that in your own way and deny that which I have said and prove against it if you be able 3. Againe your 3. Arg. to prove your scratched and deformed mother a true visible church is this Whatsoever people doe enjoy outwardly submit themselves to the true worship of God they are a true visible ch of Christ But the people of Eng. d●e outwardly enjoy and submit themselves to the true worship of God Ergo the people of England are a true visible Church Answ 3. And for the proofe of your Arg. you say that the Separation grant and teach the proposition but the assupmtion they stifly deny as well they may do but you will stifly maintaine and prove it to their shame But first of all I will prove your Arg. false to your shame and then I will examine your proofe of it Therefore I deny your proposition assumption and conclusion And first you say the Separation teach where there is true worship there is a true Church what they teach I doe not very well know for I never heard any of their Sermons but only one neither have I read but very few either of their Books or writings but yet I say your Major is not found for true worship doth not prove a company of people to be a true visible church of Christ for they must be a true visible church before they tender and offer up any publike worship to him therefore true worship doth not prov● a true church but rather a true church proves true worship for the cause must ever goe before the effect which it produceth but a true Church produceth true worship and not true worship a true Church Now to the makeing of a true Church there must not only be true matter but also a true forme 1 Cor. 15.13 Col. 2.5 or an entrance into that heavenly state or spirituall city called the New Jerusalem which comes downe from heaven and which is in the last end described in the Word of God and so becoming a politike Kingdome or Body that makes them a true church or an vniting joyning or combining of a company of Beleivers together amongst themselves and so unto Christ their only and alone head and King promising perfect obedience to all his Lawes and to walke in all his wayes that gives them the denomination of a true visible church of Christ by virtue of which they come to have Christs power to execute all the Lawes that Jesus Christ hath left and bequeathed in his last will to his welbeloved Spouse and to administer all his administrations which out of this state cannot lawfully be administred as I have already proved at large in my Answer to W. G. an eminent Profess●… in your Church but yet an earnest pleader for Antichrists Kingdome and dominion as well as your selfe and therefore for this particular I referre you to that And as for your Minor and Assumption which is that you in the Church of England doe enjoy and outwardly submit your selves to the true worship of God It is most false and a notorious lie and untruth and as well might wicked Faux and the rest of the Gun-pouder plotters say that they submitted unto noble King James Lawes and Septer when they went about to blow up the Parliament House that so they might destroy him and all his for you doe not only oppose and justle out the true worship of God and throw downe and trample upon the Septer of Jesus Christ his Son but also you set up a false and Antichristian worship the inventer of which is the Divel and the man of Sin his eldest and most obedient Son Therefore I am ashamed to heare you who boast your selfe to be such a mighty champion as you ●ay you are having as I heare you have said that you have confuted many of the Separation to reason so shallowly and ungroundedly and against the knowne and confessed truth and therefore you are but like Goliah the Philistins great champion who exceedingly reviled as you doe the Hoast of the Lord and kept a mighty challinging of them as though none of Gods people had been able to encounter and graple with him when as poore David that yongue

that passed Censure upon that Worthy man Dr. Bastwicke at his Censure in the High-Commission Court who there Blasphemously affirmed that the Scripture is the Refuge of all Heretiques and Sismatiques as you may read at large in the Tenth and Eleventh Page of his Answeare to Sr. John Bankes his Information and I beleeve your Friend that gave you these Arguments thinkes so too or else he would have proved that which he had undertaken by the Authority of the Sacred Word of God But Antichrists Owles love and desire Darknesse and cannot endure to bring their sayings and actions to the unerring Touch-stone of the Holy Scripture and there to try them whether they be drosse or Gold for he that doth or saith evill hateth Divells Institution and Invention with which the Limbs of the Beasts Kingdome have for many hundred yeares together and still doe fight against the trueth of God and the Kingdome and Scepter of the Lord Jesus Christ And therefore I exhort you and all those that desire to feare God and walke in his wais and love the Salvation of their owne Souls to take heed of such an Erronious Sophister as your supposed Freind is that gave you these Arguments But because I heare he doth bragge and boast that none of the Seperation dare come to particulars but only run upon generals therefore to prove him a falsifier of the knowne trueth and also a lyar I leave my generall speech to you and come to the unfolding and ripping up every particular in all his Arguments Therefore to my Opposite I direct my speech And in the first place you say You have sent her your Friend those Arguments which doe prove your Mother the Church of England to be a true Mother To which I answear she is a true Whorish Mother and you are one of her Base-begotten and Bastardly Children for you know a Whore is a woman as truly as a true wife and she may have Children as proportionable as the Children of a true wife yet this doth not prove her Children which are Base-begotten are true-begotten Children because they have all the parts and Limbs of Children that are begotten in a true married Estate and condition even so say I the Church of England neither is nor never was truly married joyned or united to Jesus Christ in that Espousall bond which his true Churches are and ought to be but is one of Antichrists Nationall Whorish Churches or Cities spoken of Rev. 16.19 united joyned knit to the Pope of Lambeth as Head and Husband thereof being substitute to the Pope of Rome from whom he hath received his Arch-Episcopall Power and Authority as you may read in the beginning of Godwins Catalogue of Bishops and in the last Page of Francis Masons Epistle Dedicatory to George Abbot William Lauds Predicessour in his booke of Bishops Priests Deacons Againe you confesse the Church of England is a Scratched and Deformed Mother in some respects which you could wish were reformed and removed from her To which I reply she is a Whorish Mother and that is Deformity inough for though a Whore be never so personable and Compleat a Woman in all outward respects yet if she be a Whore there is Deformity inough in that alone to spoyle all her personall Comlinesse and parts But it is much you will confesse your Mother is Scratched and deformed in some respects seing in your ensuing Arguments you say you have the true matter of a Church and true Forme true Salvation true Religion and true Worship but if you have all these it is a wonder to me wherein her Deformity can be therefore I pray you the next time nominate and particular your Mothers Deformities that I may know them by your owne confession But put the case I should deny as justly I may that you have neither true matter true Forme of a visible Church nor true Religion nor true Worship I doubt I should so perplex you to prove it that all your Sophisticall decievable Logisticall Philosophicall Arguments would be to scant to make it good but I let it alone in this place and referre it to the ensuing discourse where it will come in more pertinent But if you could wish your Mothers Deformities were removed then why doe you not tell her of them and labour to discover them unto her that so her Deformed Face may be made strait and Comly truly in my judgement you are but a very unnaturall and unloving sonne that sees your Mothers Deformities and wishes they were removed from her and yet will not strive to your utmost as is your duty to purge her from them that she may be instead of a deformed Mother a wholl and beutiful Mother Againe in the Third place you say That your Labour may be effectuall to your Friend you would have her to observe these five things 1 Rightly to apprehend the trueth of your Arguments 2 To hold her thoughts largely upon them 3 To strive to beleeve them 4 That she should strive to remember the danger that will follow the neglect of them 5 That she should goe to God by Prayer to make them effectuall to her for her good For the answearing of which in the first place You would have her rightly to apprehend the trueth of your Arguments But how can she apprehend trueth in those Arguments that have nothing but falsity in them as by Gods assistance I shall make it appeare in my ensuing discource and if she should apprehend the trueth of them indeed she may justly say thus much of them that they are all Sophistry and ungrounded Arguments being destitute of any Authority from the holy Scriptures 2. In the Second place You would have her hold her thoughts largly upon them Truly if she should doe so she should exceedingly wrong her owne Soull for will you have her put Confidence in the broken Reeds of Egipt which will pierce and runne into her hand when she most trusts to them but such are all your Arguments being no better then Bulrushes which the Two-edged Sword of Gods Word at one blow will cut them all in pieces and if she have no better Weapons to defend her felfe with then these she may come to beundon by them by being more strenghtened confirmed in Errour and so lie open and liable unto Gods heavy Judgments Plagues and Vengence which he hath threatned to pour downe in aboundance upon all those that worship the Beast Rev. 14.9.10 and this is the Beast that she shall get by keeping her thoughts largely upon them and therefore her safest course is to compare them with the infallible Word of God by which she shall see it is her duty to keepe her thoughts upon them as litle as she can least she pay too deere for her so doing Rev. 19.20 3. In the third place You would have her to beleeve them I pray tell me whether you have the Spirit of God infallibly that you cannot erre in that which you say that you

stripling with his sheepheards staffe and a company of smooth stones flung out of a slinge overcame and destroyed that mighty Giant who thought none so stronge as himselfe 1 Sam. 15. and justifieth an one are you and will prove to be for you fight for the spirituall Philistims the enemies of the Lord namely for Antichrist and his Kingdome and you send forth great bragges boastes against the truth of God amongst your ignorant acquaintance but indeed they are nothing but wind and chaffe not able to stand before the breath of Gods sacred truth which his weake servants for their conquering weapons make use of as I have already and shall more fully by the strength of God make it appeare in my following lines and therefore to confute your Argument and lay it even with the ground I will bring your owne Writers weapons who were members in the Church of England who doe not plead for Separation but for Reformation therein read but the Lincolne-shire Ministers Abridgment and Mr. Cartwrights Defence against Bishop Whiteguift sometime Pope of Lambeth and Dr. Ames his Fresh Suite against Humaine Ceremonies and you shall see your worship proved to be Antichristian and none of Christs but of the Divels invention Also read the Scots Dispute printed in Holland the last Summer and you shall see the greatest part of your worship and all your humaine Ceremonies with which you serve God proved to be Idols as your holy garments and your invented gestures of bowing and cringing and your kneling at the act of receiving the Sacrament c. Also read a litle Booke of Mr. Damfords sometime Minister of Colmanstreet in London against the Service And noble Dr. Bastwickes book called The Vanity and Impiety of the old Letany and you shall see the Wickednes Sinfulnes and Vngodlines of it set forth to the utmost for there it is proved to be an Idoll which as he there faith sends more soules to Hell in a yeare then all the prophanenesse deboystnesse wickednesse and ungodlynes in the Kingdome doth besides and that nothing could have been invented either by the Divell or the Pope for a greater meanes to pull downe the Kingdome of Christ and for the maintaining and building up the Kingdome of Antichrist and therefore I put you upon it to Answer their writings and confute the Arguments of your own Authors which have fully proved that your worship is no divine but humane worship and therefore not a true but a false worship Now if you should deny that your humaine invented diabollicall Booke of Common prayer and your sacred Ceremonies as your Lords and masters the Bishops cals them are not the worship with which you in the Church of England worship and serve God the Booke of Common prayer it selfe will confute you for there in the Preface before that Booke of devised Service and wicked mans invention they ascribe to the dumbe Ceremonies a Sacramentall naature and the very Office and worke of the spirit of God the doing of which makes them all to become Idols and all those Idolaters that use them or partake with them that doe it for there they say they are apt to stirre up the dull mind of man to the remembrance of his duty to God by some notable and speaciall signification whereby he might be edefied Also in the act of vniformity they themselves doe confesse that they are but of mans Invention and device and to worship God with mans devices and Inventions is odious and detestable unto him as before I have fully proved and therefore you in England have not the true Worship of God and so by your owne confession are not a true Church of Christ But now to answer your Argument which you bring to prove your Assumption which is this You have had those that have lived and dyed in the same Worship which you still have and have beene saved in it therefore it must needes be a true Worship This you say but doe not prove it in the least but still take that for granted which I deny which is that it doth not therefore follow because some in the Church of England have been saved that have used your Worship that therfore it is true Worship for then it would follow that the Worship in the Papistry which in some respects is more grosser then yours is a true Worship for you dare not deny it which if you doe you are not able to prove it that in the Papistry there hath not beene many people that have lived and died therein that have been saved for the Scripture doth declare that God hath a people there which he calls uppon to come out thence Rev. 18.4 for he ownes his Elect even in Spirituall Babilon yet for all this it doth not follow that their Worship is or ever was a true Worship though the Riches of the Grace and unfathomable Goodnes of the Kindnes and Love of God doth reach and extend so far as to save some that live and dy in that Worship as well as in the Worship of England yet I say it is as extraordinary a worke as the manifestation of Gods love to the Thiefe upon the Crosse was but for all that I will maintaine it that none of those that yeild and submit themselves unto your or their Worship cannot by the Scripture prove himselfe to be a visible Christian or a true beleever if they should be put by Gods people to prove it Joh. 14.21.23.24 15.8.14 Col. 15.19 to the end Eph 5.8 Col. 1.21 Tit. 1.16 2.14 1 Pet. 2 9. Heb 9.14 Jam. 2.17 18. 1 Joh. 3.8 2 Joh. 9. Rev. 13.8 14.1.4.9.10 19.20 Now from that which I have said I frame these Arguments 1 That Worship which is of the Divells and Antichrists Invention Institution setting up is no true divine Worship But the Worship of the Church of England is of the Divells Antichrists Invention Institution setting up as the forenamed Authors and the 13. Chap of the Rev. doth fully prove Ergo. The Worship in the Church of England is no true Morship 2. That Worship which is a main meanes cause of pulling downe the Kingdome of Jesus Christ establishing maintaining upholding of the Kingdome of the Devell Antichrist sends more Soules to Hell then all the wickednesse Impietie ungodlinesse in the Kingdome doth besides is no true Worship of God● but ought to be detested and abhorred of all his people But such is the Worship of the Church of England as worthy Dr. Bastwicke in the third part of his Letany doth prove Ergo. It is no true Worship but ought to be detested separated from by all Gods faithfull ones And thus much for the answering of your third fourth Arguments which you say are so strong and true that you say you need spend no more time in the proofe of them but indeed you are exceedingly mistaken for you have not in the least proved either of them as I have

the King as Head thereof and have placed it upon the Bishops of Canterbury as you may read at large in the 10. and 11. p. of his Answer to sir John Bankes if Canterbury be her Head as Mason and others affirme then sure I am that Christ is none of her head for his body is no monster to have two heads Therefore the Church of England is a whorish and Antichristian Church and none of Christs having nothing to doe with Jesus Christ nor any of his Lawes Worship Offices Ordinances or Administrations but in the next place you bring an Argument to prove the Religion in the Church of England to be true and you thus lay it downe That Religion which will lead men on into the true way of salvation that must needs be the true Religion But the Religion which we professe leads into the true way of salvation for men to looke for salvation in Gods free mercy in Jesus Christ Therefore say you your Argument must needs be true I answer that if it were granted which in the least I doe not that your Religion is true yet this alone were not sufficient to prove your Church true But I absolutely deny your Argument and affirme that your Religion neither is the true Religion nor that it leads men the true way to salvation for I have already proved it to be a false Religion and that it leads men the true way to Rebellion against God and his Son Jesus Christ But you will say how comes it to passe that some are saved which professe our Religion which you affirme to be false I answer in Moses words hidden things belongs to God but revealed things to us and our Children Devt 29.29 but yet when I seriously consider of it and with a deliberate eye looke into the holy Scripture the revealed will of God it makes me thinke say and cry out with Paul Rom. 11.33 O the depthes of the riches both of the wisedome and knowledge of God how unspeakeable are his judgments and his wayes past finding out who can save his People those elect ones even in the bosome of Antichrist his cursed Kingdome of darknesse contrary to all grounded reason that the wit of man is able to give or render from his revealed will but only must say it is alone his meer mercy and gratious and omnipotent pleasure so to doe who is tyed to no meanes place or person but can worke and bring to passe his owne ends and purposes without meanes yea and beyond all outward meanes 1 Kin. 19.10.17 Ezec. 57. for the holy one of Israel is not limited But to prove this Argument you lay downe an other after this manner If men professing the same way to salvation that we doe have lived and dyed in the profession of it and been saved then is the Religion and way to salvation that we professe a true Religion and way to salvation But men that professe our Religion have been saved Ergo it is true what childish reasoning is here to beg things after this manner and to judge the cause by the effect contrary to the whole currant of the Scripture for it doth largly shew that a bad and wicked cause or action may produce and bring forth a good and glorious effect and this is just as they said in Pauls time let us doe evill that good may come of it but saith he such mens damnation is just Rom. 3.8 and if you have read the Scripture which it appeares you have not very often you may know that the Midwives and Harlot Rahabs lying saved the Israelites children and the Spies lives Exod. 1. Josh 2. for which act of mercy they are commended in the Word of God and also it produced good effects to them for the Lord caused the Midwives to prosper and saved Rahab alive yet for all this they sinned in lying and doe you not know that the Word of God saith wee must not doe the least evill that the greatest good may come of it but yet by your reasoning a man may which to affirme is the height of wickednes and impiety and also by your reasoning a man may defend and justifie all the sinnes and sayings of Gods people and others recorded in the Booke of God out of which that God that is able to bring light out of darkenes and good out of evill hath brought much glory to himselfe as out of Pharaohs hard heartednesse and blood thirsty cruelty that he exercised upon Gods people it produced good to them by working their deliverance and glory to God by manifesting his power and goodnes yet for all this Pharaohs sin was never the lesse And also according to your reasoning Judas his treason might be excused for that sin of his brought a world of glory unto God and salvation and eternall glory to his elect and chosen ones yet though his betraying of Christ did produce such a good and glorious effect it did nothing at all excuse his sin Againe your Arg. is nothing to the purpose to prove that which you have undertaken for we are not reasoning of the way and meanes of salvation which is only and alone by faith in the Lord Christ which is possible may be had in a false Ch. yea also in no Ch. but the thing we are about is to prove see whether the Ch. of Eng. be a true Ch. of Christ or a false Ch. of Antichr But yet more fully to Answer your Argument what though it be confessed that many of God Elect have been saved that have professed your false and Antichr Rel. it will not therefore follow that your Religion is a true Religion nor your church a true church because some have been saved that have professed it I hope you will not so conclude which if you doe then I say by your owne grounds that the chruch of Rome is a true church the Religion there a true Religion for many therein have lost their lives for the maintaining of some truths which have yet adheared to the Church of Rome of many of their eternall happines as good grounds may be given as the most of the martyrs of the ch of Eng. yea and I verily beleive that God hath had and still hath a people there which belongs to his Election of grace which both hath and will save and so by your owne grounds their church and Religion are both true because it is possible that some that professe have been and still may be saved But if you will maintaine this then you contradict your owne writers which have plentifully proved the Religion in Rome and the church thereof to be false and yet have granted that some have been saved there therefore for you to goe about to prove rhe church of Engl. true and the worship therein true because some of the members thereof that have professed the Religion therin have been saved is an erronious unsound ground for by this ground it will follow that the Crosse upon