at his Ordination the Minister formally covenanteth and voweth by Gods grace to performe Which being so there can no scruple remaine in any impartiall man but that the second Reason of the House of Commons is true solid and concluding against the Bishops Votes in Parliament quod erat demonstrandum 2. ANS to the second REASON The Bishop hopes they will give themselves wholely to that and not to any other Trade or Vocation EXAMEN And hope so hee cannot if Bishops may still vote in Parliament Because they cannot doe that with profit or safety to the Common wealth without giving their mindes not to some one other single trade or vocation only but to every trade and course of life so farre as to make them complete Satesmen as hath beene shewed before For what Trade or Vocation is there to be found which sometime or other makes not businesse for the Parliament And how shall hee give a Vote in it with judgement that hath not a good insight into all the Mysteries of it If it should as possibly it may bee objected that by this strict rule many of the Nobility should bee excluded I answere that if they bee not throughly qualified and furnished for that worke the more the pity because the more the Common wealth suffers by their insufficiency Howbeit the ingenuousnesse of their nature and education will make them lesse forward in speaking and more diligent in hearing their ancients and men of more gravitie and experience Nor is it fit that for such insufficiencies they should be turned out but rather remaine there as in a Schoole as wee see some of the sonnes of the Noblemen doe to traine them up to doe service there to the King and Kingdome it being an honour to which they were borne whereas Bishops sit there but Precario and are out of their Callings all the while But is that all that the Bishop hopes namely that the persons to bee ordained will not take another Trade or Vocation upon them Then belike if a Minister doe not professe the Trade of a Taylor hee may yet spend part of his time in Tayloring Hee may sometimes give himself to Brewing so he set not up a Brewhouse c. But surely our Law is so strict in such cases that it forbids Ministers to have so much as a Brew-house or Tan-house although managed by others further than for the necessaries of house keeping nor otherwise to take to Farme or Lease any Lands or Tenements albeit the same bee occupied by some other persons if it bee to the Ministers use 21. Hen. 8 13. And why so Is it because the Lawes doe envie the wealth of Spirituall persons That were an uncharitable surmise The end was that Ministers might have no occasions of a vocation from their Studies and Ministeriall Function but have more opportunity to bestow themselves wholely thereupon according to what they promised and undertooke at their Ordination for the more quiet and vertuous increase and maintenance of Divine Service and preaching and teaching of the Word of God c. as the entrance into that Statute doth expresse it So then if we consider Bishops according to what the Common wealth expecteth from them in her Lawes as well as what the Church bindeth them unto in their Ordination as Ministers of the Church of England they may not regularly give themselves not onely wholly to any Trade but not at all to any imployment but the Ministery and to that which is necessarily required to fit them for it and support them in it 3. ANS to the second REASON Wholely in a Morall and not in a Mathematicall sense that will admit no Latitude els there might the same exception bee taken against their just care of provision for their houshold affaires EXAMEN If they by their Ordination bee bounded Morally the House of Commons will never I presume trouble themselves about the Mathematicality of the Vow Nor will I be so bold to say of this distinction of the words of the Exhortation in question as the Author of the Holy Table Name and Thing doth of a like subtile interpretation of a Rubrick newly minted by his Antagonist praying him to remember Page 54. that the Rubrick was written for the use of the English not of the Gypsies or Egyptians Yet this I suppose I may freely and truly say that neither Learned and Pious Martin Bucer nor the plaine meaning Church of England which borrowed that Exhortation from Bucer ever so much as dreamt of the Mathematickes or of that distinction here given in those words of the Exhortation but meant honestly and plainly to let all Ministers know that without distinctions or tricks they are to bind themselves wholly and absolutely Mathematically aswell as Morally to that Vocation of the Ministery further than the necessity of livelyhood enforceth them to spend some time to supply the wants and necessary occasions of them and theirs And to this I may I hope without offence make bold to adde because I have learnt it from the same Author of the Holy Table c. page 52. as hee out of Aristotle Anal. Post Lib. 1. Cap. 12 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 You must not dispute in termes of Geometry with those that verse not in Geometry otherwise you will shew your selfe but a foule and sophisticall disputant as that Author hath it But let the distinction bee as it will thus much is clearely gotten by it that the Answerer hereby yeeldeth that Morally Bishops cannot vote in Parliament without crossing the expectation of and condition propounded by the Church in admitting them to Holy Orders and that they vote there and imploy themselves in secular affaires Mathematically only Surely if their voting there for that wee know is the thing to bee asserted by him in his Answers because that is it which is opposed in the Reasons of the House of Commons consist not with the Rules of Morality it is no great credit for them to retaine that honour nor will it at length bring in much comfort to them when they must yeeld up their accounts to God that they were never forbidden it according to the strict Lawes of the Mathematickes although indeed Morally they were bound from it And what must they needs bee debarred from the just care of provision of their houshold affaires if denyed votes in Parliament and liberty unto secular imployments to enable them so to vote Nay God himselfe not only allowes but imposeth upon all men a care of their family-businesse and government Prov. 27.23 and he that is negligent herein is pronounced worse than an Infidell 1 Tim. 5.8 God hath not divided this from any Calling in ordinary course And what hee hath joyned no man may separate Therefore both the Church in her Ordination as appeared by the larger expression thereof before out of Bucer and the Kingdome in her Lawes as is also manifest in the Statute before alledged excepteth this care of provision for their housholds when
in 25. Edward 3. for Bishops intermedling in Civill Affaires because it is there said That the holy Church of England was founded in the estate of Prelacy within the Realme of England by the Kings Ancestors and other of the Nobility to inform them and the People of the Law of God and to make hospitalities almes and other works of Charity in the places where the Churches were founded c. and for this end their Lands revenues c. were assigned by the said founders to the Prelates c. And the said Kings in times past were wont to have the greatest part of their Councel for the safeguard of the Realme when they had need of such Prelates and Clerks so advanced c. This last Clause doth only prove de facto that so it was used but doth not legitimate the use all stories of those times being full of complaints against the mischiefes which arose out of it And that very Statute declares the prime end of advancing the Clergy into an Hierarchy was to counsell the Kings and others in the Law of God not in Civill and Martiall matters And so far is such intermedling in Secularibus from being countenanced by the Lawes of this Kingdome that by the common Law which is the most fundamentall Law of the Realme all in holy Orders are so carefully exempted from such incumbrances that if any Clergy man happen to be put into a temporall Office he must upon the pleading of his Orders have a Writ awarded him out of the Chauncery to discharge him Regist 187.6 Therefore it was farre from the intention of the first Founders of our Hierarchie to imploy them in Civilibus but only to make use of their counsell in Spirituals There is yet one thing more much insisted upon by some of the Prelates to prove the lawfulnesse of their intermedling in Secular Matters And it is a passage of Saint Augustine De opere Monachor Cap. 29. where hee saith It were farre more profitable for him to spend his time in reading and praying Quà m tumultuosissimas perplexitates causarum alienarum pati de negotiis secularibus vel judicando dirimendis vel interveniendo praecidendis 1 Cor. 6. quibus nos molestiis idem afflixit Apostolus non utique suo sed ejus qui in eo loquebatur arbitrio Ergo say some Bishops they have warrant so to doe yea a command from the Apostle and from the Spirit of God himselfe To this it may be answered 1. That in that very place St. Austin doth bemoane this as being Ecclesiarum quibus servit consuetudo the custome of those Churches and the practice began after Constantine made a law to warrant it for S Aust there saith that Paul never submitted to it nay rather he gave order to make them Iudges that were meanest and had least to doe And albeit St. Austin there addes that this toyle he undertooke non sine consolatione Domini in spe vitae aeternae ut fructum feramus cum tolerantia Yet this was not spoken as rejoycing in the imployment but as bearing it with more cheerefulnesse in hope of eternall life after it 2. As for the imployment it selfe he complaines violenter irruptum est non permitter ad quod volo vacare ante meridiem post meridiem occupationibus hominum teneor Epist 110. Possidon in vit Augustini ca. 19. and Possidonius that lived with him many yeares beares him witnes that hanc suam a melioribus rebus occupationem tanquā angariam deputabat Therefore it was that in Ep. 110. he desired the people that they would suffer him to put over all those businesses to Eradius whom he had chosen to be his successor in his Bishoprick which when the people had granted the good old Father presently unburdened himselfe Ergo fratres quicquid est quod ad me perferebatur ad illum perferatur ubi necessarium habuerit consilium meum non negabo auxilium 3. If this be not enough let me answer Bishops Treat Of Christian Subjection and Antichristian Rebellion par 3. by a Bishop viz by Bishop Bilson who being pressed with that place of Saint Austin de opere Mon by the Popish crue under the name of Philander a Iesuite returnes this answer under the veile of Theophilus an Orthodoxe Divine a Truth it is the Bishops of the Primitive Church were greatly troubled with those matters * And I have shewed before upon what occasion Prefat in Dial. not as ordinary Iudges of these causes but as Arbiters elected by consent of both parties And I could requite you with Gregories own words of the same matter in the same place quod certum est nos non debere which it is certaine we ought not to doe But yet I thinke so long as it did not hinder their Vocation and Function though it were troublesome unto them they might neither in charity nor in duty refuse it because it tended to the preserving of peace and love amongst men And the Apostle had licensed all men to choose whom they would for their Iudges no doubt meaning that they which were chosen should take the paines to heare the cause and make an end of the strife But it is one thing to make peace betweene brethren as they did by hearing their griefes with consent of both sides and another to claime a judiciall interest in those causes in spite of mens hearts Thus he and how home this comes to our Bishops that will needs still contest and strugle to retaine their Votes in Parliament in all civill causes whatsoever undervaluing all the Reasons of the House of Commons and contrary to the just desires of the whole body of the Kingdome I need not use more words to declare To finish this point All that hath beene said against the Clergies intermedling with Civill and Temporall affaires other than for necessary and comfortable provisions for Lively hood drives to this Conclusion that if it be so great an hinderance to the exercise of the Ministerial Function to be imployed in temporall matters which are but ordinarie it must needs be a farre greater hinderance to that holy calling for Bishops to Vote in Parliament because they cannot doe it as it ought to bee done without so much skill and dexterity in secular affaires of all sorts that possibly can come within the debate and resolution of a Parliament as must needs take up the greatest part if not the whole of a mans time study strength and abilities bee they never so great and many to fit him for that great service altogether beside I might adde inconsistent with his Calling of the Ministery 2. ANSWER to the first REASON It is propter majus bonum Ecclesiae EXAMEN Cujus contrarium c. What good they have done in Parliament for the Church unlesse to uphold the Synagogue of Rome let all Histories speake that have taken any notice of the acting and carriage of matters of Religion debated and Voted in
for their owne lives and surely I beleeve it will be very hard for the Answerer to give so much as any one instance of an Almesman that hath beene allowed to Vote in Parliament Not that my purpose is hereby to disparage any of that Order in reference to their function or present honours but only to speake of them as the Law it selfe doth meerely and only for bolting out of the strength of this branch of the Answer to the Reasons of the House of Commons against the continuance of the Bishops place and Votes as Peeres in Parliament 3. ANSVVER to the fifth REASON The Knights Citizens and Burgesses are chosen for one Parliament only and yet use their Legislative power Nor will their being elected difference their Cause for the Lords use that power in a greater eminence who are not elected EXAMEN The Knights Citizens and Burgesses sit not there as single men but as the representative body of all the Commons of England each of them give their Votes with reference to all those from whom they are sent Besides they are by the fundamentall Lawes of the Kingdome to be there qua tales however the Election of the particular persons bee arbitrary and contingent And although those very persons may never perhaps serve again yet the right and inheritance of the Commons of England whence every member of that House deriveth never dyes so long as the Kingdome lives Therefore who ever for the time hath the honour to bee a Member of that society Voteth in right of the Kingdome not of a particular man As for the LORDS although they neither bee elected nor doe Vote for any but for themselves and their owne posterity yet they have this priviledge from an higher Originall than the Bishops can prove themselves to be descended from namely as wee said before not precario from Grace and favour but from the fundamentall Lawes and Constitutions of the Kingdome Besides their bloud breeding interest in the publike and care for their posteritie borne to so high places must needs assure us more of their wise carefull and zealous managing of their Votes in Parliament than can by any prudentiall or morall grounds be hoped from the Prelates 4. ANSWER to the fifth REASON A Burgesse that hath a Freehold but for terme of life only may Vote and assent to a Law in Parliament EXAMEN Cokus in Littâ— Instit Sect. 133. The Free hold of a Burgesse is not by the tenure of Frank almoigne of which the present debate is for no Lay-man can hold any Land in that tenure Hee is therefore in that regard somewhat more capable But however this may bee yet that which was but a little before said to the next precedent Answer will serve here also A Burgesse doth not Vote in the House of Commons as a Free-Holder although haply none but Free-Holders or Free-men be eligible but as a person chosen by and for a Burrough which hath right to send Burgesses to Parliament and being there he Votes by the fundamentall Laws of the Realme Therefore it is not materiall whether his Free-hold bee for life or for longer time When Bishops shew the like warrant and Commission or the like fundamentall constitutions of the Kingdome for their Voting in Parliament then this Answer may be welcome to the House of Commons 5. ANS to the fifth REASON No such exception was ever heard of in the Diets of Germany the Corteses of Spaine or the three Estates of France where the Prelates Vote in all these points with the Nobility and the Commons EXAMEN What exception hath beene taken to Bishops in other Kingdomes is unknowne to me and perhaps to the Answerer also Unlesse he have seene all the Records and Journals of all those Kingdomes Nor doe I believe that the House of Commons had any Reference to other Nations nor doe intend to bee presidented by them As if because Bishops have this priviledge elsewhere therefore this must bee a Reason sufficient for the continuing their possession of it here Nay every Nation hath its proper Lawes and Customes and though it be no shame to borrow any thing that is better than our owne for the publike Weale yet it is no Answer to a Reason drawne from experienced inconveniency at home to say that this Reason was never heard of in forraigne States But yet I thinke if the matter were throughly examined it will appeare that in those Kingdomes Bishops have a kind of Soveraignty over their severall Territories and are Temporall Governours as well as spirituall Pastors And by the fundamentall Constitutions of those several Empires or Kingdomes those Bishops doe make one of the Estates of the Kingdome without which a Law cannot passe Sure I am it is so in Germany and I beleeve so or the rest although with some difference for they may make a third Estate and yet not bee secular or soveraigne Governors over their severall Ditions Now all know that it is farre otherwise with the Bishops of England and therefore this plea will not be of any force to breake the strength of this Reason of the House of Commons till the Prelates can translate our Lawes and Government into that of those Kingdomes from whence these presidents are impertinently borrowed 6. REASON of the House of Commons BEcause of Bishops dependency and expectancy of Translations to places of greater profit I. ANSVVER This Argument supposeth all Kings and all Bishops to be very faulty if they take the tune of their Votes in Parliament from these dependencies and expectances EXAMEN This Argument taxeth not Kings but medles only with Bishops It is true Kings bring them in and can be wise enough to serve themselves if they meet with men that will put themselves to sale for preferment And to speake plainely the receding from the ancient way of Electing Bishops by the Church is no small occasion and meanes to byas them and to engage them still to goe that way which they perceive him that hath the power of electing and of advancing them higher to bee inclined so that if a King should desire to draw them into a wrong course they scarce know how to deny him nor would many of them sticke much at it for they being men and sometimes none of the best are not onely subject to like temptations and failings that others be but more ready and officious to serve turnes than many times Princes do require And although the House of Commons doe not alwayes take the tune of Bishops Votes in every Parliament from these dependances and expectances yet when they see how much Bishops that have but meane Bishopricks doe continually labour to obtaine greater and to get up higher and then compare these ambitious practices with the tunes of their Votes in most things which concern the more perfect Reformation of Religion and the Clergy and the promoting of the power of Godlinesse c. they cannot but find to their griefe that Bishops Votes in Parliament
for a monument to the eternall infamie of the Composers of it and factors in it Now the Bishops do or ought Nulli sacerdoti liceat Canones ignorare dist 38 cap. Nulli to know that if a Iudge be once taken tardy and guiltie of corruption and wicked judgement hee is for ever presumed to bee corrupt and therefore unmeet to bee trusted in another Court any more For it is in Maxime both in the Civill and Canon Lawes which holds in all Lawes Reg. juris 8. Semel malus semper praesumitur esse malus And this presumption is not onely praesumptio hominis or praesumptio facti but praesumptio juris too quia jus sic praesumit ex facto saith the Glosse upon that rule So that if Bishops have thus encroached upon the consciences and properties of the Subject in Convocation as t is now declared they have they are unmeet and unworthy to bee trusted any more with Votes in Parliament where they may doe as much again or more if opportunity bee offered and therefore this Reason of the House of Commons is invincible But have they not done as much in Parliament also What meant the Statute of 2. H. 4.15 against the Lollards procured by Thomas Arondel Arch-Bishop of Canterbury and the rest of the Prelates against diverse of the Nobilitie for they are not at all mentioned in that Act What meant their struggling for the sixe Articles in 31. H. 8. 14. first concluded in their Holy Synod in spite of CRANMERS teeth What meant their Conspiracy to pull downe Religion in 1. Mar. after it had happily in great part beene reformed in King Edward the sixth his time What need we any further proofe Habemus confitentem this Answerer himselfe hath confessed as much in the close of his Answer to the next Reason following where he roundly acknowledgeth the opposition of all the Bishops to the Reformation of Religion in 1. Eliz. But I must on to the rest of the Answer ANSWER Nor yet at the Votes of such Bishops there as are not guilty of that offence That is of passing such Canons in Convocation EXAMEN This Exception may save the Credits of those men who were present and protested legally against such illegall and wicked proceedings so as they may have peace within and without too if after by post-fact they contracted not the guilt of Accessories by administring those Canons But yet in the account of Law and in the estimate of Law-makers before whom such lewd Canons bee arraigned the Bishops doe know that it is another Maxime and Rule in Law Refertur ad universos quod publice fit per majorem partem That is justly imputed to all that was publikely done by the Major part If they who dissented not did not protest in due forme of Law or absented themselves because they disliked the businesse but had not the courage and fidelity to oppose it as became their duty they are justly involved within the number of the guilty at least so far as to be held unworthy to be any further trusted to Vote either in that place or in an higher much more because through negligence incogitancy cowardise and the like they did not their utmost to helpe the Lord against the mighty and to oppose those wicked Canons with all their might I passe on to the next branch of the Answer ANSVVER Nor need the Subject to be discouraged in complaiing against the like grievances though twentie sixe of that Order continue Iudges For they shall not Vote as Iudges in their own Cause when they are legally charged EXAMEN What encouragement shall one or some few private subjects hope to finde when the whole House of Commons by the labouring of some Prelates lesse in number than twenty sixe cannot get passage for a necessary Bill grounded upon so many solid and weighty Reasons against the Votes of Bishops in Parliament And who can be assured that hereafter they shall not vote as Iudges in their owne Cause when even now de facto they have already done it Perhaps there is a secret in that clause When they are legally charged which I cannot discover But surely I thinke the meaning of it to be that the Bill came not home to a legall charge that might exclude them from votcing in it because the House of Commons would needs be so civill towards the present Bishops as not to name them in the Bill whereby not their persons but their Order onely was charged And if this were the error upon which the first Bill miscarried the House of Commons are wise enough to make use of this close wipe of the Answerer and to finde out a way to avoyd the like fault in the next The Answerer goes on ANSVVER And if they should vote what were that to the purpose when the Lay-Peeres are still foure to one EXAMEN If the Lay-Peeres as he termeth them were tenne to one yet if but a few of those twentie sixe Bishops have a mind to be active which in their own cause is not unlikely they know wayes enough how to draw over to their party Noble and ingenuous natures apt to be more taken with reverence of their function and gravity than willing to suspect their ends or to dispute their grounds how often so ever themselves or their Ancestors have beene circumvented and misguided by them But he will give you instances to the contrary which may put all out of feare ANSVVER The Bishops assisted with a double number of Mitred Abbots and Priors could not hinder the Lawes made gainst the Cou t of Rome the Alien Cardinals and Prelates the Prov sors the Suitors to the Popes Consistory under Edw. 3. Ric. 2. and Hen. 4. much more may those emergent exorbitancies of the Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction be soon curbed redressed in this inequality of votes betweene the Temporall and Spirituall Lords EXAMEN The Bishops so assisted could not hinder Nay rather they could not hinder the Lawes made against the Pope Strangers For the more the Pope encroached the more our Bishops smarted under those Vsurpations and groaned under the many continuall heavy taxes whereby all the Clergy of England were impoverished in their Estates and the Bishops much curbed in their Iurisdictions He should shew himselfe an egregious Ignaro to the Stories of those times that should require Instances hereof there being so many much elder than Edward the third Matthew Paris and sundry other Historians abound herein Therefore I will content my selfe with only one instance in the reigne of Hen 3. In his time the exactions pollings of the Clergy and Kingdome were found to be yearly 60000 Antiq Britan. ex Mat. Paris in Bonifac. Markes which at that time exceeded the Kings owne Revenues No benefice or dignity belonging to the Nobility Clergy or Gentry not many pertaining to the King himselfe could bee void but the Popes Provisors were ready to seize on it instantly for some of his Creatures Italians and other
forraigners The Bishops fretted but durst not complaine When the King saw their timorousnes and the whole Kingdome heightned up to such a degre of discontent that they threatned to cast off their obedience to the King if he tooke not order to case them The letters Articles are set downe at large in Math. Paris in Hen. 3. pag 927. c. edit Lond. Anno. 1571. a Parliament was called the King the Nobility Prelates Commons all complained of the unsupportablenesse of the burden drew up their greivances into seaven severall Articles foure letters were conceived and sent with these greivances to the Pope one from the Bishops a second from the Abbots a third from the Nobility and Commons and the fourth from the King himselfe but to little purpose The Pope still went on although sometimes more favourably and other times more violently as the times would suffer No marvell then if Bishops and Abbots in Parliament were so willing to be over-borne by the votes of the temporall Lords in passing the Statute of Provisors of benefices in 25. Edw. 3. and against suitors to the Popes Consistory and receiving of Citations from Rome in 38. Ed. 3 And against the farming of any Benefices enjoyed by Aliens by the Popes Collation or conveing of mony to them 3. Ric. 2 3. And against Going out of the Realme to procure a Benefice in this Realme in 12 Ric. 2.15 And for confirmation of the Statute de provisoribus among the Statutes called Other Statutes made at Westminster in 13. Ric. 2. ca. 2. The like may be said of the Statute of Provision in 2. Hen 4.4 of first fruites to Rome more than usuall 6 H. 4.1 Of moneys carryed to Rome and confirmation of all Statutes against Provisors c. 9. Hen. 4 8. To say nothing of that famous Statute in 26. Hen. 8.21 which gave the Pope a deeper wound than all the Acts that had been before Now alas poore Bishops that they were so over-voted that they could not hinder such Lawes as those made in their favour and for the rescuing of them from the Italian horse-leeches No doubt the Bishops laboured stoutly to withstand these Acts and therefore no marvaile that they be so carefully instanced in or pointed unto by the Answerer to shew how easily Bishops may bee over-voted in Parliament and how soon emergent exorbitancies of their Iurisdiction may be there curbed redressed Or rather indeed to shew how unable Bishops bee to withstand the passing of a bill which they desire with all their hearts may bee enacted or which they know the King wil have to be enacted But otherwise I cannot understand his reason in vouching of them unlesse he meant to make his Readers some mirth See now how hee winds up this long Answere ANSVVER So as this Argument doth not so much hurt the votes as it quells the courage of the Bishops who may justly feare by this and the next Argument that the taking away of their Votes is but a kind of fore-runner to the abolishing of their Iurisdiction EXAMEN Indeed if we take the scantling of the hurt done to their Votes by the instances produced in this Answer the hurt is so little that the adventure will not bee great if they meet with other Bills in Parliament of like nature wherin the Temporall Lords shall happen to over-vote them In those Statutes before mentioned I doe not finde the Clergy so much as named It is probable they durst not appeare for those Acts for feare of the Pope but rather suffered them to passe by the Temporall votes that they might the better excuse it at Rome and enjoy the benefit with more security at home when the Temporalty alone were so ready to doe it to their hands Iust so it was in Henry the thirds time when the Pope had compelled the Bishops to ratifie all the Grants of payments to Rome made by K. Iohn whereby the Bishops were so cast betweene the mil-stones as to be ready to be ground to powder yet durst not appeare against their oppressor they Good men were forced by the King and Parliament much against their wills Si placet to be rescued out of his hands without any labour of their owne when first the King professed se contra infirmos illos et timidos Episcopos pro Regni libertate staturum Antiq. Britan. in Bonif. nec censum deinceps ullum Romanae curiae praestiturum And afterward when the whole Parliament ordered the Bishops and Abbots to write to his Holinesse that which with all their hearts they would if they durst have done of themselves for obtaining ease of the burthens that lay upon them as hath been touched before So that now this Argument doth little quell their courage if they meet with no greater discouragements than by the answerer hath been set forth Rather the Answere teacheth them the way how to prevaile by being overcome and to bring about their owne ends and yet sit still or seeme to be the greatest opposers of that which in secret they most desire and underhand doe most labour for But truly it is to me no lesse than a riddle that there should be any just cause of feare unlesse unto them who are apt to feare wher no feare is that there is any thing in this Argument tending to the Abolishing of Episcopal Iurisdiction when the Reason expresly supposeth no more but a Bill to passe for the Regulation of their power upon any emergent inconvenience by it Verily there is more cause of feare on the other side that if the mention of a bill for regulating the power of Bishops shall be interpreted a plot to ruine their Iurisdiction which now is so exorbitant their Case comes very neere to that of old Rome Liv. Hist Dec. 1. which as Livy observes could noe longer stand under the vices committed in it nor endure the remedies applied to it 8. REASON of the House of Commons Because the whole number of them is interessed to maintaine the jurisdiction of Bishops which hath beene found so greivous to the three Kingdomes that Scotland hath utterly abolished it multitudes in England and Ireland have petitioned against it ANSVVER This Argument is not against the Votes of Bishops but against Episcopacy it selfe which must bee removed because Scotland hath done so and some in England and Ireland would have it so And yet peradventure ten times as great a somme as these desire the contrary Against this a 2 fold Answer is offered EXAMEN This Argument is expresly against their votes for maintaining their Iurisdiction to which by their Order they are all bound as all other societies bee to maintaine their Priviledges and it is not bent against Episcopacy it selfe And yet this suggestion is a witty invention both to winde out of the strength of this Reason and to cast a blurre upon it at the farewell The House of Commons could not but see even an impossibility of reforming by bill the
excesses and intolerable exorbitancies of the present tyranny of many Bishops who dishonestly cal it by the honest name of Iurisdiction so long as the Bishops be suffered to vote in Parliament For the Bishops bee themselves the greatest Offenders therin either acting in it or else as Galba wittingly permitting those to usurpe whom they ought to bridle or willingly ignorant of what they ought to know Therefore it was desired that their Votes in Parliament might be taken away to make passage for another Bill that might regulate their Iurisdiction as in the former Reason was plainely intimated But the Answerer was willing to slide over that which was the life of the present Reason viz. the engagement of Bishops to maintaine their jurisdiction id est as now it standeth and Lap-wing like to carry his Readers from the nest to gaize upon the destruction of Episcopacy it selfe which on my conscience was not then intended by the House of Commons had that first Bill been quietly yeelded by the Bishops in the House of Peeres Nor did the House of Commons I presume by the instance of Scotland and of those in England and Ireland intend in this Reason a purpose of Abolition of the Calling but onely made use of it as an Argument a majore ad minus to this effect That if the Iurisdiction of Bishops as now they terme it be found so greivous that in Scotland they would endure Episcopacy it selfe no longer and many in England and Ireland have petitioned for the abolishing of it in these other Kingdomes it cannot be thought unreasonable and immodest for the House of Commons to passe a Bill for a lesser matter to witt for taking away the Votes of Bishops in Parliament without which there is little or no hope that the Bishops will ever suffer an other Bill to bee enacted for the thorough Reformation and regulating of their Iurisdiction so as to give ease of the many Greivances that still ly upon the subjects of both Kingdomes of England and Ireland and to satisfie the Petitioners with Reason worthy of such a Parliament at such a time of generall discontent cheifly caused by the usurpations of sundry Bishops and of their domineering party What is in the Answer with shew of modesty said that peradventure ten times as many desire the continuance of Episcopacy as there be Petitioners against it It might peradventure be so before the Bishops procured that first bill grounded upon these Reasons to be rejected above and before the world was made acquainted with that Abstract of the Answers given to them But I dare say that now without all peradventure if we may judge of mens desires by their expressions there is scarce one of ten who before were for Episcopacy reformed but are now against it the reason is because they see there is no hope that ever the Bishops will cheerfully yeeld to a perfect Reformation of themselves and their Order and that if hereafter the Prelates should happen against their will to bee over ruled in it such a forced Reformation will never doe good nor secure the Kingdome against the Evills too long sustained under them if the Calling it selfe be continued And verily no one thing hath more alienated exasperated the hearts of all sorts than the apprehended insufficiencies of these printed Answers to the Reasons of the House of Commons So that if Episcopacy happen to miscarry I am perswaded the Bishops will find Cause to ascribe the opening of so speedy a way to their destruction not to any thing so much as to the unhappy Answers given to these Reasons of the House of Commons if those Answers offered to the House of Lords were no other or better than they are presented to publike view in that more unhappy Abstract most unhappily printed 2. ANSVVER to the eighth REASON There wil be found Peeres enough in the Vpper House to reforme any thing amisse in the Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction although the 26. Prelates should bee so wicked as to oppose it As there were found Peeres enough in that Noble House to curb the Court of Rome and the Revenues of the Cardinals under Edw. 3. To meet with the Provisors under Rich. 2. To put all the Clergie into a Premunire under Hen. 8. And to reforme the Religion 1 Eliz. notwithstanding the opposition of all the Bishops EXAMEN Mark here his Plea in Barre against the Bill There were Peeres enough to curb the Court of Rome in Edw. 3. and Rich. 2. when none were more glad of the curbing of that Court than our Bishops themselves Ergo there will ever be found Peeres enough to reforme the Bishops jurisdiction I will not say of this putting our Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction and the Court of Rome so neere together Pares cum parihas facillime congregantur But it will perhaps make sport to some to finde them in this Abstract so close one by another yet can it not secure wise men that because the Peeres curbed the Pope Ergo there will ever be enough to curb our Bishops unlesse the Bishops will yeeld themselves to hold of the Pope or to be of the same stamp and resolve to rise and fall with him As for those Cole-worts in Edw. 3. and Rich. 2. now a second time heated I referre the Reader who desires a fresh taste of them to the Examination of the former Answer In the case of Premunire in Hen. 8. who knowes not that if any such had passed in Parliament the Clergie were not so much overborn by the Nobility as overawed by that stern and stout King with whom the proudest Prelate durst not to contest But when wil it be proved that this passed in Parliament Surely Holinshed others tell me that the Bishops were called into the Kings Bench about it but before their day of appearance there was a Convocation wherein it was concluded that the Clergie of the Province of Canterbury should offer 100000. pound for composition which was accepted and a pardon promised to passe in Parliament to free them of the Premunire So in 7. Hen. 8. the Convocation incurred a Premunire for citing one Standish to appeare before the Convocation when they had not jurisdiction which yet was compounded and no Act of Parliament passed on it Nor needed there an Act for it for the Bishops themselves confessed the thing and so it could not come to a contest in the Parliament This is all that I know of this matter And if the case be thus this instance is not to the purpose But the last is of all other the most impertinent and scandalous Impertinent because all the world knowes that the Reformation of Religion was the designe of the Queene whom the Prelates might not crosse such as did thwart were duely rewarded for their paines as hath beene formerly touched Therefore untill it can bee found that the Bishops were over Voted in a Cause wherein the PRINCE went with them or expected their assistance to Vote for him the force of