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A54528
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Heresiography, or, A discription of the hereticks and sectaries of these latter times by E. Pagitt.
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Pagitt, Ephraim, 1574 or 5-1647.
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1645
(1645)
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Wing P175; ESTC R2783
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113,990
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184
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The prophâ—nenesse of their Sect. THis fault they finde with the Protestants of our Congregations but how they have avoyded this in their own Conventicles Mr. White Mr. Iohnson and Mr. Smith and many others will tell you whose plentifull reports of their known uncleanenesse smothered mischiefs malicious proceedings corrupt preachings communicating with known offenders bolstering of sins and willing coâ—nivences as they are shamefull to relate so they might well have stopt their mouthes from excepting against our communion with the prophane To use some of Mr. Whites words These that pretend such sincerity of Religion doe abound above others with all kinde of debate malice adulteries cozenage uncleannesse so that saith he that W. C. complained that hee had thought that they had been â—ll Saints but I see they are all devills These are the Assemblies to which they carry the poore soules whom they doe seduce Extracted out of a Letter of Master Whites the 20th of July I desire God to keep all people from such a Congregation where Adulteries Cozenages and Thefts are in such abundance as in the English Congregation of Amsterdam that I speak not of Brokerage of whores and other filthinesse too too bad This is true there is no Sect in Amcterdam though many in such contempt for filthy life as the English are viz. the Brownists c. The author of this Letter Master White was sued for slander by Francis Iohnson Henrie Aainsworth Francis Blakewell Daniel Studley Christopher Bowman Iane Nicolas Iudith Holder William Barbons and Thomas Bishop But after Master White had brought in witnesses before the Burgomasters who did testifie upon their Oathes and depositions confirme what Master White had written he was discharged and had charges given him by the Magistrates A briefe discovery under the hand of the Secretary and seale of the City of Amsterdam 1. Of some of the abhominations dayly practised and increased amongst the English company of the separation remaining for the present at Amsterdam in Holland 2. That they abouâ—d above all others with all kinde of debate malice adulteries cozenages and such other like enormities c. The testimony of the Dutch Church concerning the Brownists when as they sent their Messengers with some questions to their Eldership they received this answer from them That they did not acknowledge theirs to be an Ecclesiasticall Assembly or a laâ—full Church The testimony of the Magistrates of Amsterdam concerninâ— the Brownists both of old in their suit against Master White and now in their late suit for their meeting-house when they sought to lay their Action in the name of a Church they were repelled by the Magistrates that are members of the Dutch Church they would not receive complaint from them in the name of a Church or in the name of an Elder or a Deacon but from private men The Magistrates told them that they held them not as a Church but as a Sect. 13. Their Equivocaâ—ing I Might here set down theirâ—â—quivocaâ—ing and palliating their wickednesse as one Geoffry Whâ—â—acres of Master Iohnsons Congregation being found in bed with one Iudith Holder another mans wife for which matter he affirmeâ— that he did it not to satisfie his lust but to comfort Iudith being â—ickly and to keep her warme as though hee had sought to performe a Christian duty of love and not an action of uncleannesse Again when Mr. Studley a chieâ—e Prophet of Mr. Iohnsons Congregation was found hidden behind a Baskeâ— in Iudiths house he had this holy pretence that he hid himselfe to see the behavioâ—â— of G. P. who caâ— thither after him he being an Elder would be a watchfull Over-seer Again M. â— being in a whore-â—â—use and creeping out at a window the Elder D. S. excused â—im alledging in his defâ—nce the example of St. Paul Aâ—ts 9. 25. Who was by the Disciples let down over the wal â—n a Basket Mr. Iohnson sought to cleare the uncleannesse of a man found a bed with another mans wife to diminiâ—h the sin distinguished between lying with a woman and in a woman And old Father Brown being reproved for beating his old wife distinguished that he did not beate her as his wife but as a curst old woman Also Daâ—iel Studley went about to palliate his filtinesse with his Wives Daughter ungodlily alledging the Holy Scripture Let it not be offensive to the good Reader to see a childe to vindicate the foule aspersions cast upon his Mother from whom he had his soules spirituall birth and breeding by setting forth by what manner of men his Mother-Church is scandalized 14. Blame the Conversation of our Ministers AGaine although in the Visible Church the evill ever mingled with the good and sometime the evill have chief Authority in administration of the Word and Sacraments yet forasmuch as they doe not the same in their owne name but in Christs and doe administer by his Commission and outhority we may use their Ministery both in hearing the Word of God and receiving the Sacraments neither is the effect of Christs Ordinance taken away by their wickednesse nor the grace of Gods gifts diminished from such as by faith rightly doe receive the Sacraments administred unto them The Scribes and Pharisees saith our Lord sit in Moses chaire all therefore what they bid you observe doe you but not after their works for they say and doe not 15. Except against our Ordination THey except against our Ministers because they receive their Ordination from Bishops To which I answer wee have our Ordination from Christ by Bishops and Clergie-men and for this kinde of Ordination by Bishops and Presbyâ—ers we have the universall consâ—nt the Primitive Church by St. Paul Timothy and Titus were ordained And this has been the practice of all the Christian Churche of the Universe untill the time that Anabaptists crept into the world But they will alledge that we have been ordained by Antichristian Bishops and therefore they conclude every action done by our Ministers to be Antichristian 1. To which I answer why is not the Ordination that our Fore-fathers had from Antichristian Bishops as effectuall as the Bapâ—isme that was administred by them to our Fore-fathers Dâ—d ever any Reformed Church re-baptize them that were baptized by them And why should our Ministers be re-ordained moâ—e then re-baptized 2. Indeed our Ministers being ordained by Bishops and that by Protestant Bishops such as Cranmer Latimer and Ridley who were holy Martyrs who renounced all Superstition what exceptions can be taken against them Neither can they find any shelter under that â—oted Teâ—t neglect not the gift that is in thee by the imposition of the hands of the Presbyter which learned Mr. Calvin expounds nâ—t of the men but of the Office following Herein Hierome Anselmâ— Haâ—mo Lyra referring it to the gift given him and to the Bishops Preâ—byters which hath been the practice of the Church of England and all
Christian Churches in the world untill the Anabaptists To conclude let the Brownists confesse our Bâ—shops to be but Christians which they cannot deny and the Ordination of our Ministers will be lawfull by their owne rules for if the Ordination of their Ministers by Plâ—beian Artificers be lawfull how much more is the Ordination of our Ministers by Bishops and learned Ministers qualified with learning and wisedome and set apart to doe the same 16. Brownists Ordination BUT let them shew who devised their Ordination of Ministers I dare say not Christ nor his Apostles nor their Successors What Church in the whole world can be produced unlesse in case of necessity whose conspiring multitudes made them Ministers at pleasure What rule of the Church prescribeth it What Reformed Church ever did it or doth practise it What example warrants it where have the inâ—eriours presumed to lay their hands upon their Superiours It is an old policy of the faulty to complain first certainly there was never Popish Legend a more errand device of man then some parts of this Ministery of theirs so much gloried in for sincere correspondency with the first Institution 17. For their Singing FOR their singing of Psalmes it is almost left among them for in Master Iohnsons Assembly they had new râ—ymes but in so harsh and hard a phrase that the people knew not what they meant so that they could not sing with understanding 2. These being in use and the coppies being kept from the people by that means singing of Psalmes was kept from the people and shâ—t out of private houses 3. Againe by reason of the uncouth and strange translation and Meetre used in them the Congregation was made a laughing-stock unto strangers Master Daniel Studley pleaded for the continuance of those rhimes the Congregation complaining of them For saith my Author he had a good veine in making thimes especially filthy and obscene ones which he taught unto little children his Schollers and to Mistris May who used in her house to sing such songs being more fit for a common Bawde then for a person professing the pure separation They object against all the Churches in Amsterdam that they have Organs to modulate their voices in singing Sure I am the Separatists also had need of somewhat as a Bag-pipe or somewhat never used by Antichrist to tune them singing in their Conventicles like hogs against raine Here I might aske some questions viz. why singing set Psalmes doth not confine the spirit we being commanded to sing with the spirit as much as saying set Prayers and why the brethren inspired with the spirit doe not every day sing a new song as make a new Prayer which are set prayers to the People and why the people may not pray together with the Minister as it was the custome of al Christian Churches as sing together And lastly why Lay-men doe not pray in the Church aswel as preach or prophesie in the Church Do they not in forbidding the people to pray with the Minister as the Papists do in depriving the people of the Cup in the Sacrament and that for the honour of the Priest-hood 18. Of their prophecying AS the illuminated Anabaptists are called Preachers so the fanatick Brownists take upon them to be Prophets and to preach the word of God with all authority publikely in their Congregations St Panlasketh how they can preach except they be sent And this standeth to good reason every true Preacher standeth in Gods roome being the Lords Embassador to doe his will who dares doe this unsent These come not from the Schooles of the Prophers but from Mechanick trades set them down in Moses Chaire as Embassadors of Jesus Christ as Heralds of the most high God These take upon them to reveale the secrets of the Almighty to open shut heaven to save soules But to hear these fellowes discourse of the holy Trinity of Gods eternal Decree other deep poynts of Divinity you may hear the Mad-men in Bedlam prare as wisely as they May not Almighty God say to these mad Prophets what hast thou to doe to take my Word in thy mought c. Of their confused preaching or rather prating heare Mr. Simpson complaine and especially of the Prophets in Master Ainsworths Church For our manner saith he of meeting upon the Lords day it is with such a confusion and contradiction with one another that our profession of Separation may be overthrowne by it For example Thomas Cochi in his prophesie witnessing against England their Ministery is Anti-christian and being so cannot beget true faith and where there is no true faith there is no true salvation a fearefull sentence in my judgemnt Again our beloved Mr. de Cluse in his prophesie laboured to prove separation from a true Church for any corruption obstinately stood in this Doctrine was by another in prophecying there shewed to be absolutely contrary to the place Rev. 2. 24. which how unsoundly it was concluded by our Teacher was â—â—en observed by many Also it was since by another delivered in the way aâ— prophesie that even among our selves did reigne in my 〈◊〉 as namely fulnesse of bread pride and idlenesse 〈…〉 in that they were not satisfied with neither temporall nor â—pirituall food pride in that many did strive to goe beyond their calling idlenesse in that many were negligent in their callings If these things be so and be not redressed by the 〈◊〉 of this proâ—hesie we must according to Mr. deâ—Cluse his Doctrine make a new sâ—paration How oft doe the Brâ—threâ— except one against anothers prophecying by which much heart-burning and strife is â—indlâ—d between them Thâ—se thiâ—gs being well considered I pray you well to minde whether this new way of prophecying on the Lords day can be â—or the edification of the Church or not For this new propâ—â—ying of the Lay people read a Treatise newly set forth by 〈◊〉 Apolâ—nij 19. They will use no set Formes of Prayer THey finde fault with set Formes of Prayers and this also they learne of the Anabaptists who having burnt all the Books in Munster and in the Dominions of King Iohn of Zâ—â—on except the Bible were compelled either to pray without book which they call Praying with the spirit or not at all moreover the Anabaptists were so ignorant as Lambertus Hortensiâ—â— reporteth that among the numerous multitude of them 〈◊〉 was not one found as it was credibly reported that could read So they being not able to pray within book but all without book They have with the Brownists invented divers arguments against set Prayers They pretend set Prayers to be a device of man a muzling of the spirit a nurse of idlenesse and a meanes to neglect the graâ—es of God that are in them whereas they pretend extemporary prayers to be the work of the spirit whereas rather thereby they â—â—zzell the spirit of the people being tyed to the ex tempoâ—e and 〈◊〉 prayers of the Ministers