Weighty Questions DISCUSSED I. Whether Imposition of Hands in Separating a Person to the Work of the Ministry be Necessary II. Whether it be Essential to the right Constitution of a particular Church that the Teaching Elders and the Members meet alwayes in One Place Whereunto is added A Prediction of Mr. Daniel Rogers Minister in Essex long before the Beheading King Charles I. and Arch-Bishop Laud foretelling that they should not dye a Natural Death By GILES FIRMIN Author of the Real Christian What thing soever I Command you observe to do it thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it Deut. 13.32 LONDON Printed for the Author 1692. To the READER THat Unity among Christian Brethren is a thing not only beautifull in it self but also a Duty greatly incumbent upon them who profess that blessed Name of Christ none that read the Holy Scripture can be ignorant of it yea a Duty so greatly incumbent that they who do not all they can to promote it provided the Authority of the Scriptures be preserved taking care that they neither profess nor practise any thing in the House of God but what is according to the Holy Scriptures lest that Vnity should be hindered they neither shew that respect to the Command of Christ to us nor to the Prayer he made to his Father for this End as become Christians I thought I might have said At that Holy Table where we being many are one bread 1 Cor. 10.17 I do admit Independents Presbyterians Anabaptists Members of the Church of England that are and walk as Christians tho' we differ in Opinion and here Ecclesiastical Vnion is chiefly seen that both in former times and in these dayes I had been as desirous of this Vnity as some other Men. Glad I was when I heard some Brethren of the Independant and Presbyterial Perswasion in London did attempt it their Names were very dear unto me when I heard who they were that laboured in it tho' I knew none of them more glad I was when about four Years since a Copy of the Agreement was sent me to which my Brethren in the Countrey and my self readily consented We expected the same should have been Published but we find another much different from it In particular in the former Ordination was to be performed with Imposition of Hands but in this the Words are left out and these words put in The Person that is Chosen shall be Duely Ordained not expressing what that Due Ordination is However as it is worded I Consent to this and whatever be the different Sentiments I have from others in several things mentioned and more than are mentioned in the Agreement yet I have willingly Subscribed to it and Profess my self a Vnited Brother with all that are Duely Ordained In a small Treatise which some few Years since I published I took Notice of the Apostolical Churches how they were Constituted I named Nine Churches all that I could find in which were several Elders I find not one Church in the Gospel where was but One Pastor Since that Dr. Owen hath taken Notice of it and hath proved by several Scriptures and Reasons that there ought to be many Elders in every particular Church There were three Teaching Elders besides other Officers in his Church this was like a Gospel Church To have but one Pastor to govern is a Novel Opinion he saith and what he adds is true It is difficult if not impossible on supposition of one Elder only in a Church to preserve the Rule of the Church from being Prelatical or Popular As there ought to be many Elders in one Church so I doubt not but the true Primitive Church-Government was by a President with the Presbytery Not a President over more Churches but only one particular Church Not a President superiour in Power over the Presbytery but only Ordinis gratiâ Revel 2.18 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (a) The President 24. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (b) The President with the Presbytery So Beza and Raynoldus Anglorum Eruditissimus c. saith Didocla Alta. Damas p. 131. the light of Nature directs to this I would willingly have but one Instance given where this Government was ever prejudicial to the Church More I could say I only mention this that tho' in these Points I may differ from my Brethren besides what are mentioned in the Agreement yet it hinders not my Vnion with them What this Due Ordination is our Brethren as I said have not told us Hence the Discussing of this Question falls not under that Prohibition p. 3. that we must not Dispute those different Sentiments For our Sentiments do all agree it must be Due Ordination which if it be not declared what it is we agree and Subscribe to we know not what Before I Subscribed I asked the Brethren whether the Subscribing to this Agreement did debar us from an amicable discussing the Questions wherein we differ they All Answered No. We were not hindered by it We know the different Sentiments before we Subscribe the Agreement and tho' we Dispute them yet our Vnion holds as well as if we did not dispute them The Apostle exhorts 1 Cor. 1.10 and Phil. 2.2 that we be all of one Mind of one Judgment If we must not labour after it to what purpose is the Exhortation Is not the discussing Controverted Questions in a Christian amicable way seeking Light from God and setting up his Ends not our own one way to come to be of one mind which the Apostle exhorts to I am sure it is and could give good proof of it from experience in the Question now disputed If we may not do this then it is as much as to say There are different Sentiments amongst us and shall be so for still I say the End of the Agreement which is Union is preserved As to the Question of Ruling Elders which have continued in the Virgin Churches of the Vaudois from the Apostles dayes and in the Churches of Bohemia The Apostle mentioning only Bishops and Deacons 1 Tim. 3. troubles me where their Work is laid open with much more satisfaction to me than in any Book I have yet seen in England I shall be thankfull to any Brother who will dispute the Question Pro or Con it shall not hinder Vnion As to this Question about Ordination it is to my Knowledge a great hinderance of our Vnion The thing is so clear in several Texts of Scripture how it should be performed and the Practice of the best if not all the Churches since the Apostles times have been accordingly with Imposition of Hands that I have wondered any Man should scruple it I heard of an Ordination in our County of an illiterate Person and that without Imposition of Hands after it was past hearing of another who is a Scholar to be Ordained by the same Persons I wrote to him to desire the Elders that were to Ordain him to give me the Scriptures which did Warrant
but ordinary Ministers God blesseth their Preaching The Indians some of them are converted gathered into a Church Were they a Church before these Ministers And were they the first Subjects of the Power of the Keys before these Ministers preached to them Let the Scriptures in the Languages that the Spirit of God inspired his Pen-men to write them be sent to a People who never saw them nor heard of them Let this People understand them believe them embrace them give themselves up to them without any Ministry to translate to interpret and to help them to understand and believe I will allow this People to be the Subjectum Primum Secundum Tertium of all the Power of the Keys but rot else Secondly There are others who lay claim to this and impropriate it to themselves as belonging to them only i. e. Bishops as being of a Superior Order above Teaching Elders Thus Bishop Gawden told me it was out of Courtesie that the Bishop admitted Presbyters to impose Hands with them in Ordination Thanks to this Courteous Bishop I thought they had followed the fourth Council of Cartbage But if Presbyters do impose Hands with the Bishop then the Superiority of the Bishop above the Presbyter in Ordination is gone For Imposition of Hands is the Principal thing in Ordination as I will prove anon because one prays at the Imposition that argues no Superiority of Power in him All Bishops were not of this Bishop Gawden's mind not that Bishop of Peterborough who when he ordained many at one time but then take notice That he did ordain them as Presbyter He spoke not without Reason for no Ministerial Acts in the Church are valid but such Acts as are performed by Ministers of Christ's Institution They who are Officers in the Church by Civil or Ecclesiastical Constitution all their Acts as such signifie nothing But his being a Bishop and so superior to a Presbyter was by no Institution of Christ had only jus Humanum to Warrant his Authority and therefore he did not ordain as such a Bishop but as Presbyter Two I know Mr. Statham as I heard and Mr. Samuel Smith who were then Ordained Mr. Smith spake of it often what the Bishop said to them and â—â—d them take notice of it Had Mr. Smith lived till now he had been about 78 years of Age suppose him to be Ordained about 25 years of Age some by this may guess what the Name of that Bishop was about 58 years past I have often thought of this the meanest Officers in the Common-Wealth be they Rum-bailiffs Ale-Founders yet they must have Law for their Office to Warrant their Actings But that in the House of God there should be such as look upon themselves as the Chiefest Officers in the Church and yet can shew no Law from the Lord of the House to Warrant their Office this is strange what hath jus Humanum to do in the House of God Is not the Wisdom of the Great God Sufficient to know what Officers to appoint in his House but sinful Man must set up Officers and supream Officers too without him Thus Bishop Gawden told me The Bishop is the Supream Officer He should have said the Arch-Bishop in the Church you Presbyters are but the Pipe-staves the Bishop is the Hoop that holds you together An excellent similitude I desired him to tell me who should be the Cooper to knock on this Hoop I doubt I told him the Pope would swear by his Keys that he must and will be the Cooper And Bellarmin will maintain it by his Argument a Simili c. De Romano Pontif. mibi 204. He told me moreover you Presbyters are no more able to manage the Government of the Church of England than David was able to wield ' Saul's Armour The Government of the Church of England is a hard word there needs an Interpreter We poor Presbyters look only to the Government of our particular Flocks whom we feed with the Word and Sacraments over whom God hath made us Bishops Acts 20.17 28. If all the particular Congregations in England supposing them to be visible Saints were so govern'd then by an Induction of particulars it might be so call'd We do not indeed in our Government use Writs de Excommunicato Capiendo Prisons Fines Cutting off Ears these are Saul's Armour but none of Paul's spiritual Weapons 2 Cor. 10.4 with which we are content If it be well examined it will be found that the Zeal of his Government hath been carried out against Consciencious Men who for Doctrin Worship Discipline stick close to the Word of God without admitting any Humane Inventions to justle with him I say the Zeal has been carried out against those far more than against Whore-mongers Drunkards prophane Swearers Dam'mees c. I can but take notice of Dr. Lightfoot 1 Vol. p. 787 788. that learned Man and Son of the Church of England living in the times of our Persecution who denys Bishops to be Successors to the Apostles And that it is an improbable and unconstant Inference that because there was Subordination between the Apostles and Philip. in Acts 8. that therefore the like is to be reputed betwixt Bishops and other Ministers I have done with this I only aimed at this Teaching Elders may Ordain and we have Divine Authority for it in the Texts before mentioned These we are sure are Officers in the Church by Christs Institution The Lutherans have Bishops yet they deny any inequality jure Divino between Bishops and Presbyters quoad Potestatem Jurisdictionis Therefore Gerrard answering Bellarmin appropriating Ordination to Bishops saith De Minist Eccles p. 261. there is not one tittle in all God's Book that Ordination by Bishops should be valid but by Presbyters should be Null The next thing is it must be performed with Imposition of Hands I named five Scriptures for this before What Dr. Owen saith Ordination of Ministers is one thing Imposition of hands is another differing as the whole and the part I yield it by this whole he must mean totum integrale it cannot be totum universale but we say in Logick suolata qualibet parte tollitur perfectio Integri sed sublata parte principali tollitur integrum Then I say where there is not Imposition of hands there is no Ordination for this Imposition is the principal part and so tollitur Integrum That it is the principal part I prove and this shall be my first Argument 1st The Spirit in the Apostles sets forth the whole Ordinance of Ordination only by Imposition of Hands but never by Fasting and Prayer 1 Tim. 4.14 the laying on of the Hands of the Presbytery 1 Tim. 5.22 Lay Hands on no Man suddenly That in those Texts Ordination is meant and not Confirmation nor reception of Penitents nor the Sick I have proved in another Tract so that I insist not upon them Heb. 6.2 This my Brother with whom I now deal denyes to be Ordination but it is meant
Man will believe it Why then is this Text abused For my part I am for the Peoples Election provided it be carried on regularly and look upon this Imposing of Ministers by Patrons upon the People against their Consent as cursed Tyranny But for my own part giving honour to these worthy Men far more learned than my self I am not satisfyed that this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this Text whatever the Etymology of the word was at first must necessarily note the Act of the People listing up their Hands in Election of their Officers I rather consider how the word is used in that Age or Time when Men write 'T is well known that words in time do vary in their signification from what they did at first Among divers others we have one in Scripture Ethis l. 4. Cap. 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ephis 5.4 Aristotle tells us how the Word was first used and who was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Man that was facetious pleasant Witty but withal cleanly in his Discourse But afterwards in his time if a Man did seem to be Witty tho' Scurrilous and base he now was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Divers such words we have in the Latin and English Tongue Philo and Paul were Contemporaries Philo flourished in Caligula 's Time and wrote before Paul and how Philo useth the Word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Dr. Hammond has given us an account out of his Works Likewise out of Lucian and Maximus Tyrius Where the word is used of single persons so that the word did not in those times signifie the suffrages of the People and the Word in Holy Writ Acts 10.41 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being given to God Plainly carry it that the Word doth not always intend or force the Peoples Suffrage whatever the Etymology of the Word signifles upon which Gerbard lays his stress I have not seen that piece of Mr. Selden but Mr. Ranew told me he had made it clear that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 had lost that signification these contend for many years before Christ 2dly That Rule which Henry Stephens gives us concerning 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I take to be very true When this word governs an Accusative Case then it signisies but to create Ordain Thus he Now in this Text Acts 14.23 it doth so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But in Cor. 2.8.19 which these Men urge to confirm their Opinion there is no accusative Case but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He was chosen of the Churches Let me add to this the Syrryack Version I doubt not but that Translator did understand the Etymology of the word as well as any of us now in this verse he renders the word they â—id Constitute or Ordain (a) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the very same Syriac word which is used in Tit. 1.5 Ordain Elders But in the 2 Cor. 8.19 there he uses another word to chase (b) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and doubles the Verb as the Hebrews do which the Latin Translation gives thus deligendo delectus sit So the vulgar Translation Constituissent 3dly The Gramatical Construction is more to me than a Criticism when Paul and Barnabas returned to Antioch v. 22. they returned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Confirming the Souls c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eâ—horting them to continue c. These two were Paul and Barâ—abas's Acts then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Paul and Barnabas lifted up their hands if the word must signifie so from the Etymology of the word this was as much their Act as the â—ormer Let any School-Boy construe it tho' the Boy can tell you the Etymology of the word Then we shall have a new â—aâ—hion of ordaining by Ministers fasting praying and listing up their haâ—ds â—esides for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 how will that agree with the Peoples listing up their hands what â—air sense shall we make of it But if we take the word as we see it was used in that time and as H. Stephens saith if it governs an accusative case as it doth in this place thâ—n the Sense runs smooth Paul and Barnabas did Constitute or ordain them i. e. the Disciples in the sormer verse Elders in every Church c. 4thly It is certain the Greek Fathers did use their word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for Ordination Surely they understood their own Mother tongue as well as we I have observed Chrysostem in all those Texts where Imposition of hands is mentioned he useth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gerhard confesseth that Chrysostom and other Ecclesiastical Writers do so use it And tho he stick to the Etymology of the word to maintain the Peoples right of Election yet Ordination he saith must be with Imposition of hands therefore he saith in the next word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 demum sit mentio in their praying they Imposed hands Thus he As to these Fathers who thus use the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 had they been against the Election of the People then I should have suspected their Integrity in their use of the Word but the People then had their Election of their Bishops and Presbyters And one thing I took notice of in the 5th Century I read of one Synâ—siâ—s a Man of very good parts who was to be Ordained Bishop of Syrene But when he should be Ordained he did not believe the Resâ—rrection of the Body yet the People who had elected him were so earnest to have him Ordained that Theophilus Alexand. did Ordain him hoping he might believe it afterwards as he did When I read it I thought what a difference there was between those times and ours they could Ordain a Bishop who did not believe one of the Articles of the Apostles Creed as it is called but the Church of England could cast out about eighteen hundred Ministers but for what was it because they did not assent to the Doctrine of the Church of England I heard Mr. Harmar should tell Bishop Reynolds if you can maintain the Discipline of the Church the Dissenters must maintain the Doctrine of the Church of England was it because they were scandalous in their Conversation was it because they were Idle and lazy was it because they did not worship God according to His Word Blessed be God they could charge us with none of these things for what then Let them answer that when they come to appear before their and our Judges They were Church-Men and Bishops that made that Act against us SECT III. NOw to your Reason why you Ordain without Imposition of Hands that which you chieâ—â—y insist upon is this There is neither Scripture Precept noâ— President for ordinary Officers of one Church to impose Hands in the Ordination of an Officer in another Church Answ First What need of such Presidents while Apostles and Evangelists were living Secondly This Argument of yours plainly implies that there is Scripture Precept and President to ordain in another Church so it be without Imposition of
Mâ— Quick's Sermo aâ— Mr. Faldo 's Funâ—ral p. 22. What Mr. Qâ—ick writes I am both an Eye and Ear-witness to About fitty sour Years since he Preached on Mar. 2.5 in Boston in New-England and did think-the Pâ—â—â—â—-man had Faith because Christ tells him his Sins were forgiven but no Forgiveness without Faith up rose one first forsooth he was not satisfied then another after him then Mr. Cotton our Teacher he took up our Pastor's Case and defended it and ten one after another fell upon him Tho' the Text does not say when Jesus saw his but their Faith it doth not follow but the Palsie-man might be included in the word their and his Faith put them on both the Bearers and Palsie-man had Faith This was too common in that Church though the most publick where Seamen and all Strangers came Sir Henry Vane was the Man that did embolden them when Ministers had done Preaching he would find Questions to put to them though they were Strangers Second Question AReverend Author out of a Book composed as he tells us by several Bishops and great Doctors and approved by Authority in King Henry the Eighth's dayes hath Collected these Propositions First That a Parochial or congregational-Congregational-Church Government is accordint to the Church of England jure Divino Secondly That the Diocesan or National Government is jure Hamano Thirdly That Protestants except some obscure Writer assert Particular Churches to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Church-Government Among whom saith he there are these differences 1. The Episcopal and Presbyterian differ from the Congregational about the Extent of particular Churches i. e. the Congregational concludes there must be no more than are capable of Personal Communion The former make a greater extent and give too great advantage to Papacy 2. They differ concerning the Nature of Discipline the Congregational being esteemed an Espouser of a Democracy the Presbyterian of an Aristocracy the Episcopal of Monarchy But Maccovius a Theol. Polem p. 161. Keckerman b Syst Theol. p. 3. mention another Aristo Democratical and Dr. Ames c Medul Theol. p. 1. c. 33. thes 20. seems to be of the same judgment Fourthly All Protestants agree in afferting the Independency of particular Churches Thus far my Author That we may understand one another clearly Suppose we then that all the Christians in England that dwell in their several Parishes were such as deserved the Name of Visible Saints these meet every Lords-Day in their Parish-Church as they call it to Worship God where there is but one Pastor Lecturers and Readers are but in few Parishes in the Countrey nor have they any Power in Church-Government 1. Are these the particular Churches you mean by the words Parochial and Congregational I suppose my Brother means so 2. Is every such particular Church the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Power of the Keys 3. Are all these Independert my Brother hath said it First I desire my Brother would Name one such Church which the Apostles did Constitute but with one Teaching Elder or Paster Secondly How you may perswade the Pastor to admit the People to be Rulers with them I cannot tell but I doubt we should have a Monarclical-Government set up in every Parish in England which you say the Bishops espouse Mr. Norton as acute and Learned Divine as new-New-England had being at a Meeting of about forty Elders one that was newly come into the Countrey was reading to the Elders what his Judgment was about Church-Government He would have it to be Democratical quoting Morellus several times What have we to do with Morâ—llus said Mr. Norton to me if I cannot prove the Government of the Church to be Presbyterial I will give up our Cause Thirdly If all these particular Churches be Independent I fear we should have wild doings Experience have proved it already At this day we see woful effects of it If there be one or two Gentlemen of Purse Piety and Parts that stick close to the Minister and awe the People things may go on quietly else if there be but two Self-conceited pragmatical Fellows as I have known you should soon see what will become of your Parochial-government Fourthly Suppose the Pastor be foully scandalized by some of his Church one or more how shall the Government be carryed on shall he be Plaintiff and Judge in his own Case I have known a Case where a Pastor had great Offence given I propounded the Case to Dr. Owen * And Mr. Faldo whether that Pastor should proceed according to Matth. 18.15 16 he told me by no means when he heard my Reason We shall meet with hard Cases if we come to set to Government indeed Fifthly Suppose the Pastor himself grow scandalous how shall Government be carried on now Sixthly Good Men and Ministers are subject to Passions and Infirmities whence it is not fit the Government of the Church should be Committed to One alone Seventhly To Govern will is a Gist by it self a Man may be a good Preacher but no good Governoâ—r Eighthly When our Lord sent out the Apostles and the Seventy only to Preâ—â—â— he sent them out by two and two Mar. 6.7 Lâ—k 10.1 Now a single Paster undertakes all Ninthly The Jewish Synagogues bad several Elders to carry on the Government in one of their Synagogues and we but one 〈◊〉 vident Oâ—â—li quam Oâ—ulâ—s It is true our Pastor with his People may truely be called a Church as that Woman who had no Arms but held bee Pen between her Toes and so wrote 〈◊〉 have seen of her Writing 〈◊〉 may well be said to be Animal rationale a râ—â—ioâ—â—â— Creature but had God made the Wâ—â—an so at first the Woman had not been a 〈…〉 to Man So here is a Company of Vâ—â—ible Stints one Paâ—â—or here is Preaching Prayer Administration of Sacraments and in some Cases Excresse of Discipline so that it is a true Church but not such a Church as the Aposlles sent by Christ did Conâ—â—itute 〈◊〉 to answer all ends of a Church 't is imperfect defective and our Duty is to write after that Copy the Apostles of Christ have set us Dr. Owen hath proved there ought to be many Elders in every Church 2d Part of the Church p. 138. by Scriptures and Reasons I think sufficiently Soon after the Apostles in the Primitive Churches Mr. Clarkson in his Discourse against Diocesan Churches his first Book p. 5.21 hath shown there were more Presbyters in every Church than were necessary In those Virgin Churches in the Valleys of Piedmont which were never desiled with Popery but kept pure from the Apostles dayes where I find Ordination was with Imposition of Hands contrary to our Men I read in their low Condition seven Elders made a Classis they carryed on their Government by joint Councils they had their Consistories and 140 Pastors heretofore in a Synod Whence this one Teaching Elder or a single Pastor in a Church is a
Puritans and gave his Question accordingly Great Expectation there was in the University Mr. Rogers being Fellow of Christs-Colledge came up Opponent the first Argument he used was so strong and he followed it so close that he Crampt the Respondent down fell the Ceremonial Champion the Under-graduates observing it went to Mr. Rogers took him out of his Place and carried him out of the Schools upon their Shoulders when he was in the Schools yard a Fellow of St. Johns comes behind him and gives him a Clap on the Back as he was on their Shoulders with these Words Rogers go home and Hang thy self thou wilt never dye with more Honour This is the Man with whom after he had Preached on his Lecture-day I walked to his House As we were in the way he asked me where the King was I told him He looks upon me and said If that King dyes the ordinary Death of Men then God never spake by me I was amazed to hear such words come from so grave and eminent a Divine O Sir said I to him What do you mean to speak such Words concerning the King I beseech you give me your Reasons why you speak thus He fixed his Eyes upon me and gave me only this Answer Say you no more to me but do you observe what I say to you I was much troubled at these words A few dayes after I met with two of his intimate Acquaintance excellent Christians and told them I was much troubled at what I heard Mr. Rogers speak concerning the King they asked me what he said Note this I told them they Answered me That might very well be for before the Wars began while the Kingdom was in Peace he told us If this King Charles and this Prelate Laud dye the ordinary death of Men then God never spake by me Bishop Laud's Head was off before I came into England I asked them if he spake of any more they said No only those two I thought tho' he were a very heavenly Man and one much with God in Prayer yet I did not take him to be immediately inspired by God as the Prophets were and so the Thoughts went off Afterwards when the High Court of Justice as they called it sate upon the King I did not mind his words for I did not think they had any intention to take away the King's Life When I understood they were in earnest I went to Church on the Fast-day with a purpose to stir up the People to Pray for the King's Life but before I came there one overtakes me upon the Road and told me the King was dead It was the Fast-day on which Mr. Rogers alwayes Preached in the Forenoon In the Afternoon which he never did before but once as I remember he comes to our Church I suppose to observe how I resented the King's Death After I had done Mr. Rogers goes home with me and discoursing about the King's Death he recalled a Passage I had in my Prayer concerning it Thou saidst true said he to me and there this Old Prophet I may call him so leaning upon my Table bemoaned the Death of King Charles being much affected with it Let others judge of this as they please yet this I dare say No Prophet immediately inspir'd by God did with more Confidence speak concerning Thing or Person as he was inspired than Mr. Rogers did confidently foretell that King should not dye the ordinary Death of Men. That he should have any hand in the King's Death no rational Man that knew him would think so 1. For he never came among Parliament or Army Men but an old Man lived retired at home 2. So many Years as I lived by him I do not remember that ever I heard him speak against the King 3. The Words were spoken before the Wars began to others thô after they were begun to me 4. He bemoaned the King's Death 5. Thô he was a very gracious Man yet he was exercised too much with God's Hidings of himself from him to have any Hand in such Acts. What Use to make of this I leave to Wise Men. A Weighty Question DISCUSSED Whether Imposition of Hands in the Separation of a Person to the Work of the Ministry be necessary BEfore I come to the Question give me leave to premise a few things First Tho' Gifts are Essential to a Minister they must be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 2.2 to whom Timothy must commit the things he had heard c. Yet Gifts do not make a Minister I have known several Gentlemen they were Scholars indeed who as to Gifts were as fit for the Ministry as most Ministers at this day in England yet these worthy Men did not invade the Office of the Ministry as many illiterate inferiour and too many erroneous Mechanicks do now to the disgrace of that Function Had they been grave experienced Christians as I have known some called forth tryed and ordained by Learned Divines to Places suitable I should not have opposed but encouraged and preferred before many who are called Schollars but irreligious and ignorant in Soul-Works Secondly Persons may be instrumental to the Conversion of others and yet not fit for the Ministry I have known such That Parents even Mothers by their godly Education of their Children may be instrumental to the Conversion of their Children Who will deny it A notable instance I could give of a dying Mother speaking to a wicked rebellious Son she had other Children godly God blessed her Words that he became a gracious Man Thirdly The Election of the People does not make a Minister Dr. Owen hath spoken enough to this Lib. 2. p. 83. 85. 139. Vnto Officers of the Church are required saith he Election of the People submitting themselves unto them in the Lord and the solemn setting them apart by Imposition of Hands And after that he writes that Church Order is defective that wants the Symbol of Authoritative Ordination viz. Imposition of Hands And in his Exposition of the Hebr. l. 3. p. 33. Imposition of Hands is a Right of standing use in the Church and that wherein Church Order is much concerned In his Second Book of the Church mentioned before p. 136. he proves there ought to be many Elders in one particular Church This he proves 1st from Scripture 2dly by Reasons one of which he fetches from Imposition of Hands Is saith he there be but one Elder only in a Church upon his Death or Removal this Imposition of Hands must either be left unto the People or be supplyed by the Elders of other Churches or be wholly omitted all which are Irregular He did acknowledge the Ordination he had without Imposition of Hands when he turned Independant was defective Whether Dr. Owen had his hand in drawing up the Savoy Confession I know not But we see upon mature thoughts when he is leaving the World he gives his Judgment according to the Holy Scriptures which should be the only Guide and
there be an Uniform Order touching Ordination of Ministers throughout the whole Realm and that with Imposition of Hands and thus it holds to this day Mr. An. 1598. pag. 424. Bruce having preached many Years would admit of Imposition of bands for Confirmation but not for Ordination Several denyed him to be their lawful Pastor for want of Imposition but others own'd him Mr. Bruce accepts of Imposition for Confirmation and Mr. Pont imposes hands upon him First As for Imposition of Hands for Confirmation as it is used in England after Baptism I find not one word of it in all the History nor did the Church of Scotland own it that I find there Secondly All this while there is not one Scripture brought by those who opposed Imposition Yet they had taken the Word of God for their only Rule which is so express for Imposition c. which makes me wonder at Mr. Bruce so holy a Man But if they had no Scripture had they no Reasons Yes they had one and but one and that a pityful one too Thus It being laid as a ground pag. 425. that none can receive Ordination to the Ministry without Imposition of Hands and that the Ceremony is proper to Bishops it behoved to follow that none could enter into the Ministry without the Imposition of the Hands of Bishops This is all very strange that Mr. Bruce should admit of Imposition of Hands for Confirmation when the Bishops do appropriate that to themselves as well as in Ordination How many things may be said to this to shew the weakness of this ground Any understanding man may easily see but I forbear The Representation of Presbyterian Government and put out the Year 1690. when Bishops are turn'd out tell us in the sixteenth Section That Men come into the Ministry by Election and Ordination by laying on of the Hands of the Bresbytery which is a mean of Communicating Authority to him Then it seems the Church of Scotland where this stir was can impose Hands in Ordination without Bishops By reading this History I find the Government of the Church of Scotland from the first beginning of Reformation was Presbyterian wherefore it was no small injury to impose upon them Prelatical Bishops unless they had been of Christs Institution which we are sure they are not And that our first Reformers in King Henry the Eights and in King Edward the Sixth's did declare That Episcopacy was no distinct Order from Bresbytery by Divine Right but only a prudent Constitution of the Civil Magistrate for the better Government of the Church SECT II. The Definition of Ordination AS to the word Ordination I think Greg de Valen. speaks right Tom. 4. Dis 9. Q. 1. p. 1. the word is taken from the Effect of that Ordinance Quia per Ordinationem aliquis in gradu quodam atque Ordine certo Ecclestasticae Dignitatis Constituitâ—r Some are Pastors some are Teachers some aâ—e Ruling Elders some are Deacons they are set or placed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Cor. 1.28 in such an Order in the House of God by Ordination Thus it hath passed for Currant many hundred Years in the Church till yesterday Election gave the Essence and Ordination was but an Adjunct I desire my Brethren but to give me that Adjunct according to the Word of God and we shall unite tho' we differ in our Logical Notions What should he done where Ordination cannot be had Something I had to say to it but being none of our Question I let it alone It is more material to know what Ordination is and being it is Essential to our Discourse I will give the Definition of it This being a sure Truth That they who do not give the Definition they do but mock the Person to be ordained and abuse the Ordinance for he is not ordained Cui convenit Definitio eidem quoque Convenit Definitum è Contra c. Ordination then is the Separation of a Person rightly qualified to the work of the Ministry by teaching Elders with Fasting Prayer and Imposition of Hands Something I had thought to have spoken about the Qualification wherein I see these mens Practices with no content their way being to debase the Ministry but the stress lying most in the Ordiners and Impositions of Hands I shall speak to these two Heads That it belongs to Teaching Elders Act. 13.3 Tim. 1.4.14 I prove it Here the People rise up and claim a Right by Virtue of their being the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Power of the Keys And I have seen it practised Two Private Persons imposed their Hands upon an Ancient grave Divine who was ordained I believe near 40 Years before in England c. They gave him the Essence in giving him a Call and so they gave him the Adjunct And this being the Opinion of these men here I preser their Ordination with Imposition of Hands and would own him for a Gospel Minister before them whom you ordain as you suppose without Imposition And if Ordination be no more than Prayer and Fasting what need of you according to the Principles of Independency in another Church It is not Prayer Preaching and Fasting Tho' I grant Preaching is very comely at such an Ordinance yet Preaching is not Ingredient into the Ordination The People can Fast and Pray as well as you I observed while the hands of these private Persons were upon the Head of their Pastor one of them made such a Prayer as might become any Minister it was so apposite to the business in hand that I could but wonder at it and I believe it was his own Composing Whether the Fraternity be the first Subject of the Power of the Keys Mr. Nath. Ward use to say They were the first Subject of the Key-Clog not the Keys So they have proved in many Churches I am sure I have spoken to it several Years since in another Tract I add but a few word now In the Common Wealth the People are before the Magistrate In the Church the Ministry is before the People Thus it began with the Apostles they were first and after them by a continual Succession of the Ministry the Church is continued The Ministry is the Instrument in God's Hand which he useth commonly or chiefly for the bringing in and building up of his Church 2 Cor. 6.1 Ephes 4.11 12. The principal Cause and the Instrument work together to the producing of the Effect that then the effect of a Power should be the first Subject of that Power of which 't is an Effect is new Logick to me Dr. Owen saith The Church is before Ordinary Ministers Answ First But is it before the Ministry Else 't is nothing Secondly The Proposition is not true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that faithful and laborious Servant of Christ Mr. Eliot whom I know and honour Mr. Mahew Mr. Leverick with great Labour and Industry get the Indian Language and preach'd to the Indians they were
may there deny her Communion also but when you meet publickly with others there you should not deny but she may be present at Prayer being it is natural Worship tho she were actually excommunicated and rendred as a Heathen I have seen the Indians present with us at Prayer and Preaching tho' as yet they had not embraced Christianity Thirdly As for the Civil Familiarity you had with her before you ought to suspend that too 2 Thess 3.14 and verse 6. yet having a care of her being in a poor condition that she do not perish Fourthly You may choose three or sour of your chief Members and send them to her to make her know the Determination of the Church and that the Church doth this in the Name of the Lord Jesus The Church did so the effects of it was the clamours of the People ceased the Mouths of them who before were opened against us were silent and now they rather sound sault with me that I was too sharp upon the Person offending the effect was a relenting and humbling of her self before God in the publick Congregation to the satisfaction of the Church she is now dead but the Church having then their Pastor absolved her before she died and it was a comfort to her her Absolntion was without money By this I see were this Ordinance of Church Discipline carried on according to the word of God which hath been so fearfully abused we should need no Writ de Excommunicato capiendo I did but add a sew words what the case of such a person was under this Sentence and it struck an awe in the hearts of Carnal People To return to my Brother To what I have said from the one body in the Corinth 12. That the Pastors of Churches may help other Churches where there are none and they call to help them you answer me This is all you have to say and there is little in it Answ No not all Brother I gave you your own Text whereby you proved that Pastors of other Churches may joyn with you in days of Fasting and Prayer and preaching and if so then in Ordaining 2dly I gave you the Texts of Scripture whereby the Synod of N. England proved they might ordain in another Church with Imposition of hands You tell me you deny a Political-visible Catholick Church Answ So do I. If I said but little I am sure you say too much How doth it follow Because we may help neighbour Churches when they call us to help them with Pastors in a Gospel way Therefore I must own a Political visible Catholick Church I gave you instance before how Churches may help to purge themselves from seandalous persons tho they have no Officers If there be a Family by us where are several Children Parents both dead and there is none that takes care of them to help them to food It is one thing for me to go to the House and help them with food another thing to cast one of the Children out of the House if it be cross refractory and will not be reclaimed by counsel Thecase is the same here twenty or forty Elders may meet to give Counsel in a Case leaving the Execution to the Church whence the Case depends You tell me Ministers are not set over the whole Church their Power may be refused in other Congregations Answ But they do not refuse their Power when they Call for it and desire to help them in their want I limit the Power of Elders to other Churches to the Call of those Churches being in want They are not therefore set over the whole Church When you with the two other Ministers they go for such did separate that illiterate Person to the Work of the Ministry did you Act as Officers or as private Brethren If you acted as private Brethren then I am sure he is no Minister the Brethren of the same Society had more right than you If you acted as Officers then it seems you could not put forth Official Power in another Church To separate to an Office is an Act of Authority Whom we may appaint not the People Act. 6.3 You tell me the 13 Acts 3. is no Platform for us unless we have an immediate Command from God to Ordain Men. Answ The immediate Command was in the separating Paul and Barnabas to the Work of their Apostleship The Command was not to Teach them how they should separate the Lord saith only Separate c. they knew how they should separate before The Synod of new-New-England and Dr. Owen were much mistaken who quote this Text for Ordination by Impostion of Hands But to this Text I have spoken before As to what you say That Gifts were then Conserred with the Imposition of Hands Answ The end when the Lord first Commanded it was not to Conferr Giâ—ts but to separate Numb 8.10 14. so Acts 13.3 Separate we Paul c. 2. The Savoy Consession is against you if there be Elders in the same Church it calls for Imposition of Hands 3. Paul and Barnabas were Gifted before as I named the Texts 4. The Deacons were Gifted before their Ordination Acts 6.3 5. Paul then needed not to have given that Caution to Timothy 2 Tim. 2.2 that they be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to whom he Committed the Gospel-Doctrine for Timothy by the Imposing Hands might Conferr Gifts and make them able or fit Men for the Work 6. As to what you gather from 1 Tim. 4.14 for your Proof that Text you know admits of Controversie As whether Timothy was not first Ordained a Presbyter and asterwards an Evangelist Whether Paul's Imposition and the Presbyters were both at the same time c. but this is certain laying the 1 Tim. 1.18 and 2 Tim. 1.6 together with this Text there was something extraordinary as to Timothy's Gifts in which the Presâ—â—teries Imposition had no share the Propositions differ it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the putting on of my Hands See Didoclavius Altare Damos p. 161. Thus Gillospy Misc p. 101. but 't is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the laâ—ine oâ— of the Hands of toâ— Presbitery after Prophecy So that when Paul and the Presbytery did both impose Hands the Gift was conveyed as Paul saith by my Hands But as to â—â—s Office to a Potestative Authoritative Mission the Imposition of the Hands of the Presbytery did concâ—rr with Paâ—â—'s You tell me I must own Succission and those polluted Hands c. Answ Your Argument speaks thus If you will have no Ordination without Imposition of Hands according to Scripture then you must own Succession So I will Was Imposition of Hands in Ordination an Invention of Rome or an Institution of God the Papists can prove their Act in this Point by Scripture so cannot you 2. Mr. Robinson Mr. Johnson tho' rigid old Separates yet worthy Men made light of this Argument because it was God's own Appoinement 3. You had best throw away Baptism because their polluted Hands do