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A34264
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The Conformists reasons for hearing and joining with the Nonconformists
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1691
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Wing C5805; ESTC R30271
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8,987
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ordained by meer Presbyters without a Bishop Answ God hath no where declared that there cannot be just and valid Ordination without a Bishop and therefore the contrary Doctrine must needs be erroneous Accordingly all true Protestants own and approve Ordination by Presbyters without a Bishop as is used in the Dutch Helvetian French and New-England-Churches to be just and valid and not defective in any thing absolutely necessary The Church of England doth not allow the Ordination of Presbyters by a Bishop only without the presence and concurrence of co-assistant Presbyters who do equally impose Hands with the Bishop And the Presbyterians do not allow Ordination by all Presbyters promiscuously but only by senior Presbyters such as for their Age Experience Gravity Wisdom ministerial Ability and Fidelity and exemplary Vertues are Heads and chief Men among them and a kind of Fathers to the younger Sort. The principal thing in a Minister of Christ is not external Ordination but ministerial Ability and Fidelity external Ordination is not principal but subservient And where is ministerial Ability and Fidelity with the consent and liking of the People and the protection and countenance or permission of the Magistrate with Imposition of Hands and Fasting and Prayer by senior Presbyters of known Wisdom Gravity Piety and exemplary Vertue and Ability either this is just and valid Ordination or there is no such thing as Ordination neither can it be declared what it is Now this is the Ordination in use among the Presbyterians And indeed able and faithful Presbyters are according to Scripture-phrase Bishops Acts 20. 17. 28. Phil. 1. 1. 1 Pet. 5. 1. Obj. 4. We who are conforming Ministers cannot hear and join with the Nonconformists without breach of our Oath of Canonical Obedience to the Ordinary Answ That Oath binds us but to obey the Ordinary in things lawful and honest And to hear and join with the Nonconformists as we have opportunity is neither against Law nor Honesty but rather laudable pleasing to God profitable to the Soul and the true way of Peace The Ordinary is not supream but an Officer appointed by the King and State touching Church-matters he is under God and to the King and State If he enjoin or forbid us any thing contrary to Law we owe him no Obedience Our Oath to him binds us to no new Duty but only binds us more strictly to do what we had been bound by the Law to do in case we had not taken that Oath The same supream Authority which makes the Ordinary and gives him limited Power over us doth declare in the Preamble of the late Act for Toleration that the Liberty now enjoyed by the Nonconformists may be an effectual means to unite their Majesties Protestant Subjects in Interest and Affection Now our hearing and joining with the Nonconformists is a countenancing of them and of their present Liberty and consequently it tendeth to the union of Protestants in Interest and Affection in the Judgment of the King and Queen and of both Houses of Parliament and consequently of the Ordinary himself for by the Ordinary is meant the Bishop of the Diocess who is one of the House of Lords and so hath a hand in making the Law How can we disobey the Bishop by hearing and joining with those Men unto whom the Bishop himself as a Member of the House of Lords doth by his consent to the Act of Parliament give free Liberty as an effectual means of uniting Protestants in Interest and Affection and exempteth them from all Penalties and from being prosecuted in any Ecclesistical Court for or by reason of nonconforming to the Church of England Obj. 5. The Nonconformists are against all Church-Government by Bishops and there can be no Church without a Bishop Answ The Nonconformists are not against all Church-Government by Bishops for they have long desired that famous Arch-bishop Vsher's Model of Church-Government by Bishops and Presbyters might be established among us But hitherto they could not obtain it for there are a party of Men in the Nation some Clergy and some Laity by Profession Protestants whom the Piety and moderation of such Bishops as Bishop Vsher and Bishop Hall doth greatly offend and can by no means please A limited Episcopacy the Nonconformists generally are not against try and see if they will not accept and willingly conform to Arch-bishop Vsher's Model That there may be a Church without a Bishop is plain from the Dutch Helvetian Protestant French Churches and those in new-New-England There is also the universal Church on Earth and yet no one universal Pastor and Bishop on Earth The Pope indeed claims to be so but for that he is by Protestants justly charged with Antichristian Pride and Ambition There is also the Church of England as comprizing all the Christian People in England but no one Man is universal Bishop to all the Christian People in England nor are all the Bishops put together Governours of the Church of England but they are subject to the King and Queen and governed by Laws made by the King and Parliament as hath been declared and therefore it is not true that there can be no Church without a Bishop The Church consisteth by Christian Faith Hope and Love not as exclusive of Pastors and Ministers but as supposing and including them as God's Instruments for begetting and finishing these heavenly Graces and nothing hinders but that able and faithful Presbyters may be instrumental in God's Hands for begetting and finishing these heavenly Graces in thousands of Souls yea and much better than some Bishops such as either cannot or will not labour in the Word and Doctrine Popish Bishops who are Idolaters and such other as seek themselves and not the things of God Obj. 6. The Nonconformists have no Ceremonies in their way of Worship Answ Yes but they have two Ceremonies of God's own ordaining Baptism and the Institution of Bread and Wine and if God had not thought these two enough he could easily have ordained more but he thought good to ordain no more and it must needs be a wise and safe way to keep to God's Ordinance Obj. 7. The Nonconformists have no publick Liturgy that is no stinted form of publick Prayer and Administration of Sacraments Answ You will give the Minister leave to chuse his Text and compose and methodize his Sermon why can you not also leave him to perform the other part of ministerial Office respecting Prayer Thanksgiving and the Sacraments by a stinted form or not as he himself is best able and thinks most meet If his Words be grave sound scriptural pious suited to common Edification though not to each ones Fancy your Duty is to mind your Heart to purify that from Pride and carnal Prejudice and evil Thoughts and affectionately to concur and join in all the Service and be thankful It is very desirable that all Ministers were of such Abilities and at all times so prompt and full as to need no stinted Form
The Conformists Reasons for hearing and joining with the Nonconformists 1. THE same Reasons which oblige Persons to hear and join with us oblige us also to take all Opportunities of hearing and joining with the Nonconformists they being Ministers of Christ having due Call and Authority from him to preach the Gospel The Church hath real need of their Labours their Ministry is hated by Satan and Saint-hating Men they are duly subject to the higher Powers and are protected by the Law of the Land in the course of their Ministry and are a considerable part of that same Church of England which their present Majesties under God are Supream Governours of according to the old Oath of Supremacy and the 37th Article of the Church of England 2. Those Words of our Saviour's take place here He that is not against us is on our part Mark 9. 40. The Nonconformists really are not against us therefore they are on our part The Scope and Drift of their Ministry is to win Souls not to this or that Sect but to Christ to teach them their Duty to God and to their present Majesties as sole Supream under God and the common Center of Catholick Unity in these Nations They are truly tender of our Ministry rejoice in our Labours and in the Gifts and Graces of able and faithful Conformists rebuke Backbiters and Vilifyers of our Ministry and as they have opportunity hear and join with us and our Churches 3. In the time of the late King James the Church of England did confess its Error in being severe to the Nonconformists This is plain from a certain Pamphlet published in the late King's Reign intituled A Letter to a Dissenter upon occasion of his Majesties late gracious Declaration of Indulgence The Words thereof pag. 8. are these following The Church of England convinced of its Error in being severe to you the Parliament whenever it meeteth will sure be gentle to you the next Heir bred in the Country which you have so often quoted for a Pattern of Indulgence A general Agreement of all thinking Men that we must no more cut our selves off from the Protestants abroad but rather inlarge the Foundations upon which we are to build our Defences against the common Enemy so that in truth all things seem to conspire to give you Ease and Satisfaction c. This is to be looked upon as the general sense of the conforming Nobility Gentry Commonalty and Clergy in the time of the late King's Reign for so really it was as is well known Now here the Church of England doth confess its Error towards the Dissenters and to have erred not in some slight and trivial Matters but in Matters touching the Foundation and sees a necessity of inlarging its Foundations and consequently of taking in the Nonconformists and making them constituent Parts of the Church with her self Either then the Nonconformists are upon one and the same Foundation with our selves or they deserve to be and it is through no fault of theirs that they are not being upon the same Foundation we cannot be against their Ministry and Meetings but we must needs be against our own and overthrow the Common Protestant Cause Religion and Interest in this Nation and consequently in all other Nations and Countries what in us lies and in being for their Ministry we are for our own 4. These Scriptures set together prove it a Duty viz. Hear and your Soul shall live Isa 55. 3. Where two or three are gathered together in my Name there am I in the midst of them Mat. 18. 20. I charge thee before God and the Lord Jesus Christ preach the Word be instant in season out of season 2 Tim. 4. 1 2. Though I be free from all Men yet have I made my self Servant unto all that I might gain the more And unto the Jews I became as a Jew that I might gain the Jews to them that are under the Law as under the Law that I might gain them that are under the Law to them that are without Law being not without Law to God but under the Law to Christ that I might gain them that are without Law To the Weak became I as weak that I might gain the Weak I am made all things to all Men that I might by all means save some And this I do for the Gospel's Sake 1 Cor. 9. 19 20 21 22 23. 5. The Communion of Saints is a principal Part of the Catechism and of the common Creed of Christendom it is a Fundamental in true Religion most frequently repeated in all Conforming Congregations Now we do not duly believe and practise this Fundamental unless we hear and join with the Nonconforming Brethren in the Word and Prayer and Sacraments as we have Call and Opportunity they being visible Saints and there being nothing in their way of Worship but what is either laudable or tolerable God doth own and approve their Ministry and Meetings and is graciously present with them Objections Answered Obj. 1. The Presbyterian Ministers refuse Subjection to the Governours of the Church of England and therefore it cannot be safe for us to hear and join with them Answ This is plainly not true for under God their present Majesties are sole Supream Governours of the Church of England ruling all Estates according to Laws enacted by common Consent in Parliament witness the old Oath of Supremacy and the 37th Article of the Church of England in these words The King's Majesty hath the chief Power in this Realm of England and other his Dominions Vnto whom the chief Government of all Estates of this Realm whether they be Ecclesiastical or Civil in all Causes doth appertain and is not nor ought to be subject to any foreign Jurisdiction The Presbyterians generally subscribe this Article and it is notorious that they are duly subject to their present Majesties pray heartily for them pay Taxes bear all legal Charges keep the stated monthly Fasts strictly and solemnly and are more upright and cordial to the present Government than many of the Conformists are If you deny their present Majesties to be chief Governours of the Church of England you then bring in the Papacy and unhinge the Government Obj. 2. Though the King be supream Governour by the Sword yet Bishops are supream Governours of the Church of England by the Word Answ Bishops have no Authority but what is ministerial and subordinate and therefore they cannot be supream Governours they are under Law to God and they are under Law to the King as God's Vicegerent If you suppose them supream Governours of the Church of England you suppose them Popes that is Antichristian Prelates exalting themselves above God and above the King his Vicegerent Abiathar the High-Priest was not superior to nor coordinate with King Solomon but his Subject and therefore for his Crime was justly deposed by him and Zadok put in his room Obj. 3. The Presbyterian Ministers have not just and valid Ordination as being