Common Prayer c. without any particular mention of the booke or forme of ordering Ministers and Bishops Hence grew one doubt whether ordinations and consecrations according to that forme were good in Law or no. Another was Queene Elizabeth in her Letters Patents touching such Consecrations Ordinations had not vsed as may seeme besides other generall words importing the highest authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall the title of Supreame Head as King Henry and King Edward in their like Letters Patents were wont to dâ— that notwithstanding the Act of 35. Hen. 8. after the repeale of the former repeale might seeme though neuer specially reuiued This as I ghosse was another exception to those tâ—at by vertue of those Patents were Consecrated Whereupon the Parliament declares First that the Booke of Common Prayer and such order and formâ— for consecrating of Archbishops andâ— Bishops c. as was set forth in the time of King Edward the Sixth and added thereto and authorised by Parliament shall stand in force and be obserued Secondly That all Acts done by any person about any consecration confirmation oâ— inâ—esting of any elect to the Office or Dignitie of Arch-bishop or Bishop by vertue of the Queenes Letters Patents or Commission since the beginning of her reigne bee goodâ— Thirdly That all that haue beene ordered or consecrated Archbishops Bishops Priests c. after the said forme and order be rightly made ordered and consecrated any Statute Law Canon or other thing to the contrary notwithstanding These were the reasons of that Act which as you see doth not make good the Nags-head-ordination as F. Halywood pretends vnlesse the same were according to the forme in Edward the Sixth dayes His next proofe is that Boâ—er Bishop of London while hee liued alwayes set light by the Statutes of the Parliaments of Queene Elizaboth alleadging that there wanted Bishops without whose consent by the Lawes of the Realme there can no firme Statuee bee made That Boner despised and set not a straw by the Acts of Parliament in Queene Elizabeths time I hold it not impossible and yet there is no other proofe thereof but his bare word and the ancient Confessors tradition of which we heard before Admitting this for certaine there might bee other reasons thereof besides the ordination at the Nags-head The stiffenesse of that man was no lesse in King Edwards time then Queene Elizabeths And indeed the want also of Bishops might be the cause why he little regarded the Acts of her first Parliament For both much about the time of Queene Maries death dyed also Cardinall Poole and sundry other Bishops and of the rest some for their contemptuous behauiour in denying to performe their dutie in the Coronation of the Queene were committed to prison others absented themselues willingly So as it is commonly reported to this day there was none or very few there For as for Doctor Parker and the rest they were not ordained till December 1559. the Parliament was dissolued in the May before So not to stand now to refute Boners conceit that according to our Lawes there could bee no Statutes made in Parliament without Bishops wherein our Parliament men wil rectifie his iudgement F. Halywood was in this report twice deceiued or would deceiue his Reader First that he would make that exception which Boner laid against the first Parliament in Queen Elizabeths time to be true of all the rest Then that he accounts B. Boner to haue excepted against this Parliament because the Bishops there were no Bishops as not canonically ordained where it was because there was no Bishops true or false there at all His last proofe is That D. Bancroft being demanded of M. Alâ—blaster whence their first Bishops receiued their orders answered that hee hoped a Bishop might bee ordained of a Presbyter in time of necessity Silently granting that they were not ordained by any Bishop and therefore saith he the Parliamentary Bishops are without order Episcopall their Ministers also no Priests For Priests are not made but of Bishops whence Hierome Quâ—d facit c. What doth a Bishop sauing ordination which a Presbyter doth not I haue not the meanes to demand of D. Alablaster whether this be true or not Nor yet whether this be all the answere he had of D. Bancroft That I affirme that if it were yet it followes not that D. Bancroft silently granted they had no orders of bishops Vnlesse he that in a false discourse both where propositions be vntrue denies the Maior doth silently grant the Minor Rather he iested at the futilitie of this Argument which admitting all this lying Legend of the Nags-head and more to suppose no ordination by any Bishops had beene euer effected notwithstanding shewes no sufficient reason why there might not be a true consecration and true Ministers made and consequently a true Church in England For indeed necessitie dispences with Gods owne positiue Lawes as our Sauiour shewes in the Gospel much more then with mans and such by Hieromes opinion are the Lawes of the Church touching the difference of Bishops and Presbyters and consequently touching their ordination by Bishops onely Whereof I haue treated more at large in another place for the iustification of other reformed Churches albeit the Church of England needs it not To confirme this Argument it pleaseth F. Halywood to addâ— That King Edward the Sixth tooke away the Catholike rite of ordaining and in stead of it substituted a few Caluinisticall prayers Whom Queene Elizabeth followed c. And this is in effect the same thing which you say when you adde that Couerdale being made Bishop of Exceter in King Edwards time when all Councells and Church Canons were little obserued it is very doubtfull hee was neuer himselfe canonically consecrated and so if hee were no canonicall Bishop hee could not make another canonicall To F. Halywood I would answere that King Edward tooke not away the Catholike rite of ordaining but purged it from a number of idle and superstitious rites prescribed by the Popish Pontifical And the praiers which he scoffes at if they were Caluinisticall sure it was by prophecie for Caluin neuer saw themâ—ill Queene Maries time when by certaine of our English exiles the Booke of Common Prayer was translated and shewed him if he saw them then Some of them as the Let any and the Hymne Veni Creator c. I hope were none of Caluins deuising To you if you name what Councells and Church Canons you meane and make any certaine exception either against Bishop Couerdale or any of the rest as not canonicall Bishops I will endeauour to satisfie you Meane while remember I beseech you that both Law and reason and Religion should induce you in doubtfull things to follow the most fauourable sentence and not rashly out of light surmises to pronounce against a publike and solemne ordination against the Orders conferred successiuely from it against a whole Church Wherein I cannot but commend Doctor Carriers modestie
Protestants Church not the true Church Againe by that saying Haereses ad originem reuocasse est refutasse and so considering Luthers first rancour against the Dominicans his disobedience and contempt of his former Superiours his vowe breaking and violent courses euen causing rebellion against the Emperour whom he reuiles and other Princes most shamefully surely such arrogant disobedience scisme and rebellions had no warrant nor vocation of God to plant his Church but of the Deuill to begin a scisme and a sect So likewise for Caluin to say nothing of all that D. Bolsecus brings against him I doe vrge onely what Master Hooker Doctor Bancroft and Sarauia doe proue against him for his vnquietnesse and ambition reuoluing the Common-wealth and so vniuâ—tly expelling and depriuing the Bishop of Geneua and other temporall Lords of their due obedience and ancient inheritance Moreouer I referre you to the stirres broiles sedition and murders which Knoxe and the Geneua Gospellers caused in Scotland against their lawfull Gouernours against their Queene and against our King euen in his Mothers belly Nor will I insist vpon the passions which first moued King Henrie violently to diuorce himselfe from his lawfull wife to fall out with the Pope his friend to marrie the Lady Anne Bullen and soone after to behead her to disinherite Queene Mary and enable Queene Elizabeth and presently to diâ—inherit Queene Elizabeth and to restore Queene Mary to hang Catholiques for traitors and to burne Protestants for heretiques to destroy Monasteries and to pill Churches were these fit beginnings for the Gospell of Christ I pray was this man a good head of Gods Church for my part I beseech our Lord blesse me from being a member of such a head or such a Church I come to France and Holland where you know by the Hugenots and Geuses all Caluinistes what ciuill wars they haue raised how much bloud they haue shed what rebellion rapine and desolations they haue occasioned principally for their new Religion founded in bloud like Draecos lawes But I would gladly know whether you can approue such bloudy broiles for Religion or no I know Protestants de facto doe iustifie the ciuill warres of France and Holland for good against their Kings but I could neuer vnderstand of them quo lure if the Hollanders be Rebels as they are why did we support themâ— if they be no rebels because they fight for the pretended liberty of their ancient priuiledges and for their new Religion we see it is an easie matter to pretend liberties and also why may not others as as well reuolt for their old Religion Or I beseech you why is that accounted treason against the State in Catholiques which is called reason of State in Protestants I reduce this argument to few words That Church which is founded and begun in maâ—ice disobedience passion bloud and rebellion cannot be the true Church but it is euident to the world that the Protestant Churches in Germanie Francâ— Holland Geneua c. were so founded and in Geneua and Holland are still continued in rebellion ergo they are not true Churches Furthermore where is not Succession both of true Pastors and of true Doctrine there is no true Church But among Protestants is no succession of true Pastors for I omit here to treate of Doctrine ergo no true Church I prooue the minor where is no consecration nor ordination of Bishops and Priests according to the due forme and right intention required necessarily by the Church and ancient Councels there is no succession of true Pastors but among Protestants the said due forme and right intention are not obserued ergo no succession of true Pastors The said due forme and right intention are not obserued among Protestants in France Holland nor Germanie where they haue no Bishops and where Lay men doe intermeddle in the making of their Ministers And for England whereas the Councels require the ordines minores of Subdeacon and the rest to goe before Priesthood your Ministers are made per saltum without euer being Subdeacons And whereas the Councels require three Bishops to assist at the consecration of a Bishop it is certaine that at the Nags-head in Cheap-side where consecration of your first Bishops was attempted but not effected whereabout I remember the controuersie you had with one there was but one Bishop and I am sure there was such a matter and although I know and haue seene the Records themselues that afterward there was a consecration of Doctor Parker at Lambeth and three Bishops named viz. Miles Couerdall of Exceter one Hodgeskin Suffragan of Bedford and another whose name I haue forgotten yet it is very doubtfull that Couerdall being made Bishop of Exceter in King Edwards time when all Councels and Church Canons were little obserued he was neuer himselfe Canonically consecrated and so if he were no Canonicall Bishop he could not make another Canonicall and the third vnnamed as I remember but am not sure was onely a Bishop Elect and not consecrated and so was not sufficient But hereof I am sure that they did consecrate Parker by vertue of a Breue from the Queene as Head of the Church who indeed being no true Head and a Woman I cannot see how they could make a true consecration grounded on her authoritie Furthermore making your Ministers you keepe not the right intention for neither doe the Orderer nor the Ordered giue nor receiue the Orders as a Sacrament nor with any intention of Sacrificing Also they want the matter and forme with which according to the Councels and Canons of the Church holy Orders should be giuen namely for the matter Priesthood is giuen by the deliuerie of the Patena with bread and of the Chalice with wine Deaconship by the deliuerie of the booke of the Gospels and Subdeaconship by the deliuerie of the Patena alone and of the Chaliâ—e emptie And in the substantiall forme of Priesthood you doe faile most of all which forme consists in these wordes Accipe potestatem offerendi sacrificium in Ecclesia pro viuis mortuis which are neither said noâ— done by you and therefore well may you bee called Ministers as also Lay men are but you are no Priests Wherefore I conclude wanting Subdeaconship wanting vndoubted Canonicall Bishops wanting right intention wanting matter and due forme and deriuing euen that you seeme to haue from a Woman the Head of your Church therefore you haue no true Pastors and consequently no true Church And so to conclude and not to wearie my selfe and you too much being resolued in my vnderstanding by these and many other Arguments that the Church of England was not the true Church but that the Church of Rome was and is the onely true Church because it alone is Ancient Catholique and Apostolique hauing Succession Vnitie and Visibilitie in all ages and places yet what agonies I passed with my will here I will ouer-passe Onely I cannot pretermit to tell you that at last hauing also mastered and
THE COPIES OF CERTAINE LETTERS WHICH HAVE passed betweene SPAINE and ENGLAND in matter of RELIGION Concerning the generall Motiues to the Romane obedience Betweene Master IAMES WADESWORTH a late Pensioner of the Holy Inquisition in Siuill and W. BEDELL a Minister of the Gospell of Iesus Christ in SVFFOLKE LONDON Printed by William Stansby for William Barret and Robert Milbourne 1624. TO THE MOST HIGH AND EXCELLENT PRINCE PRINCE CHARLES I Should labour much in my excuse euen to mine owne iudgement of the highest boldnesse in daring to present these Papers to your Highnes if there were not some releeuing circumstances that giue mee hope it shall not be disagreeable to your higher goodnesse There is nothing can see the light which hath the name of Spaine in it which seemes not now properly yours euer since it pleased you to honor that Countrie with your presence And those very Motiues to the Romane obedience which had beene represented vnto you there in case you had giuen way to the propounding them are in these Letters charitably and calmly examined Betweene a couple of friends bred in the same Colledge that of the foundation of Sir WALTER MILDMAY of blessed memorie whom with honor and thankfulnesse I name chosen his Schollers at the same election lodged in the same Chamber after Ministers in the same Diocesse And that they might bee matchable abroad as well as at home attendants in the same ranke as Chaplaines on two Honorable Ambassadors of the Majestie of the King your Father in forraine parts the one in Italie the other in Spaine Where one of them hauing changed his profession and receiued a pension out of the holy Inquisition house and drawne his wife and children thither was lately often in the eyes of your Highnesse very ioyfull I suppose to see you there not more I am sure then the other was solicitous to misse you here These passages betweene vs I haue hitherto forborn to divulge out of the hope of further answer from Master Wadesworth according to his promise though since the receipt of my last being silent to my selfe he excused him in sundrie his Letters to others by his lack of health Nor should I haue changed my resolution but that I vnderstand that presently after your Highnesse departure from Spaine hee departed this life Which newes though it grieue me as it ought in respect of the losse of my friend yet it somewhat contenteth me not to haue beene lacking in my endeauour to the vndeceiuing a well-meaning man touching the state of our differences in Religion nor as I hope to haue scandalized him in the manner of handling them And conceiuing these Copies may be of some publike vse the more being liâ—ted vp aboue their owne meannesse by so high patronage I haue aduentured to prefixe your Highnesse name before them Humbly beseeching the same that if these reasons be too weake to beare vp the presumption of this Dedication it may bee charged vpon the strong desire some way to expresse the vnspeakeable joy for your Highnesse happy returne into England of one amongst many thousands Of your Highnesse most humble and deuoted seruants W. BEDELL THE CONTENTS 1. A Letter of Master Wadesworth contayning his Motiues to the Romane obedience Dated at Seuill in Spaine April 1. 1615. printed as all the rest out of his owne hand-writing pag. 1. 2. Another Letter from him requiring answere to the former from Madrid in Spaine April 14. 1619. pag. 16. 3. The answere to the last Letter Dated Aug. 5. 1619. pag. 17. 4. A Letter from Master Wadesworth vpon the receipt of the former From Madrid Dated Oct. 28. 1619. receiued May 23. 1620. pag. 23. 5. The answere to the last Letter Iune 15. 1620. pag. 25. 6. A Letter from Master Wadesworth from Madrid Iune 8. 1620. pag. 29. 7. A Letter of Master Doctor Halls sent to Master Wadesworth and returned into England with his marginall notes pag. 30. 8. A Letter returning it inclosed to Master Doctor Hall pag. 36. 9. A Letter sent to Master Wadesworth together with the Examination of his Motiues Octob. 22. 1620. pag. 36. 10. The Examination of the Motiues in the first Letter pag. 39. The heads of the Motiues reduced vnto twelue Chapters answering vnto the like figures in the Margint of the first of Master WADESWORTHS Letters Chap. I. OF the Preamble The Titles Catholike Papist Traytor Idolater The vniformitie of Faith in Protestant Religion pag. 39. Chap. II. Of the contrarietie of Sects pretended to be amongst Reformers Their differences how matters â—f Faith Of each pretending Scripture and the holy Ghost pag. 44. Chap. III. Of the want of a humane externall infallible Iudge and Interpreter The obiections answered First that Scriptures are oft matter of controuersie Secondly that they are the Law and Rule Thirdly that Princes are no Iudges Fourthly nor a whole Councell of Reformers The Popes being the Iudge and Interpreter ouerthrown by reasons And by his palpable misse-interpreting the Scriptures in his Decretals The style of his Court His Breues about the Oath of allegeance p. 50. Chap. IIII. Of the state of the Church of England and whether it may be reconciled with Rome Whether the Pope be Antichrist PAVLO V. VICE-DEO OVR LORD GOD THE POPE the Relation de moderandis titulis with the issue of it pag. 72. Chap. V. Of the safenesse to ioyne to the Romane being confessed a true Church by her Opposites Master P. Wottons peruersion printed at Venice The badge of Christs sheepe pag. 82. Chap. VI. Of fraud and corruption in alledging Councels Fathers and Doctors The falsifications imputed to Morney Bishop Iewell Master Fox Tyndals Testament Parsons foure falshoods in seuen lines A taste of the forâ—eries of the Papacy In the ancient Popes Epistles Constantines Donation Gratian The Schoolemen and Breuiaries by the complaint of the Venettan Diuines The Father 's not vntoucht Nor the Hebrew Text. pag. 91. Chap. VII Of the Armies of euident witnesses for the Romanists Whence it seemes so to the vnexpert Souldier The censure of the Centurists touching the Doctrine of the Ancients Danaeus of Saint Augustines opinion touching Purgatorie An instance or two of Imposture in wresting Tertullian Cyprian Augustine p. 108. Chap. VIII Of the inuisibilitie of the Church said to bee an eâ—asion of Protestants The promises made to the Church and her glorious Titles how they are verified out of Saint Augustine falsly applied to the whole visible Church or representatiue or the Pope pag. 118. Chap. IX Of lack of vniformitie in matters of Faith in all ages and places What matters of Faith the Church holds vniformely and so the 〈◊〉 Of Wicliffe and Hus c. whether they were martyrs p. 12â— Chap. X. Of the originall of Reformation in Luther Câ—luin Scotland England Whether King Henrie the eight were a good head of the Church Of the Reformers in France and Holland The originall growth and supporting of the Popes Monarchie considered pag. 122. Chap. XI Of
lacke of Succession Bishops true Ordinations Orders Priesthood The fabulous Ordination at the Nags-head examined The Statute 8. Elizabeth Boners sleighting the first Parliament and Doctor Bancrofts answere to Master Alablaster The forme of Priesthood inquired of pag. 139. Chap. XII Of the Conclusion Master Wadesworths agonies and protestation The protestation and resolution of the Author and conceipt of Master Wadesworth and his accompt pag. 158. The Copies of certaine Letters which haue passed betweene Spaine and England in matter of RELIGION Salutem in Crucifiâ—o To the Worshipfull my good friend Mr. WILLIAM BEDEâ—â— c. Master Bedell MY very louing friend After the old plaine fashion I salute you heartily without any new fine complements or affected phrases And by my inquirie vnderstanding of this Bearer that after your being at 〈◊〉 you had passed to Conâ—tantinopâ—e and were returned to Saint 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 and with health I was exceeding glad thereof for I wish you well as to my selfe and hee telling mee further that to morrow God willing he was to depart from hence to imbarke for England and offering me to deliuer my Letters if I would write vnto you I could not omit by these hastie scribled lines to signifie vnto you the continuance of my sincere loue neuer to be blotted out of my brest if you kill it not with vnkindnesse like Master Ioseph Hall neither by distance of place nor successe of time nor difference of Religion For contrarie to the slanders raysed against all because of the offences committed by some wee are not taught by our Catholike Religion either to diminish our naturall obligation to our natiue Countrie or to alter our morall affection to our former friends And although for my change becomming Catholique I did expect of some Reuilers to be termed rather then prooued an Apostata yet I neuer looked for such termes from Master Hall whom I esteemed either my friend or a modester man whose flanting Epistle I haue not answered because I would not foile my hands with a Poeticall Rayler more full with froth of Wordes then substance of Matter and of whom according to his beginning I could not expect any sound Arguments but vaine Flourishes and so much I pray let him know from me if you please Vnto your selfe my good friend who doe vnderstand better then Master Hall what the Doctors in Schooles doe account Apostasie and how it is more and worse then Heresie I doe referre both him and my selfe whether I might not more probably call him Heretike then he terme me at the first dash Apostata but I would abstaine from such biting Satyres And if he or any other will needes fasten vpon me such bitter termes let them first prooue that in all points of faith I haue fallen totally from Christian Religion as did Iulian the Apostata For so is Apostasie described and differenced from Heresie Apostasia est error hâ—minis baptizati contrarius fidei Catholicae ex toto and Haeresis est error pertinax hominis baptizati contrarius â—idei Catholicae ex parte So that hee should haue shewed first my errors in matters of Faith not any error in other Questions but in decreed matters of Faith as Protestants vse to say necessarie vnto saluation Secondly that such errors were maintayned with obstinate pertinâ—cy and pertinacy is where such errors are defended against the consent and determination of the Catholik Church and also knowing that the whole Church teacheth the contrarie to such opinions yet will persist in them and yet further if there bee any doubt he must manifest vnto me which is the Catholique Church Thirdly to make it full Apostasie he should haue conuinced mee to haue swarued and back-slidden as you know the Greeke word signifies like Iulian renouncing his baptisme and forsaken totally all Christian Religion a horrible imputation though false nor so easily prooued as declaymed But I thanke God daily that I am become Catholique as all our Ancestors were till of late yeeres and as the most of Christendome still be at this present day with whom I had rather bee mis-called a Papist a Traytor an Apostata or Idolater or what he will then to remayne a Protestant with them still For in Protestant Religion I could neuer finde vniformitie of a settled faith and â—o no quietnesse of conscience especially for three or foure yeeres before my comming away although by reading studying praying and confeâ—ring I did most carefully and diligently labour to finde it among them But your contrarietie of Sects and opinions of 〈◊〉 Zwinglians Caluinists Protestants 〈◊〉 Cartwrightists and Brownists some of them damning each other many of them auouching their Positions to be matters of Faith for if they made them but Schoole questions of opinion onely they should not so much haue disquieted mee and all these being so contrarie yet euery one pretending Scriptures and arrogating the Holy Ghost in his fauor And aboue all which did most of all trouble me about the deciding of these and all other Controuersies which might arise I could not finde among all these Sects any certaine humane externall Iudge so infallibly to interpret Scriptures and by them and by the assistance of the Holy Ghost so vndoubtedly to define questions of Faith that I could assure my selfe and my soule This Iudge is infallible and to him thou oughtest in conscience to obey and yeeld thy vnderstanding in all his determinations of Faith for he cannot erre in those points And note that I speake now of an externall humane infallible Iudge For I know the Holy Ghost is the Diuine internall and principall Iudge and the Scriptures be the Law or Rule by which that humane externall Iudge must proceede But the Holy Scriptures being often the Matter of Controuersie and somtime questioned which be Scriptures and which bee not they alone of themselues cannot be Iudges and for the Holy Ghost likewise euery one pretending him to bee his Patron how should â— certainly know by whom he speaketh or not For to Men we must goe to learne and not to Angels nor to God himselfe immediately The Head of your Church was the Queene an excellent notable Prince but â— Woman not to speake much lesse to be Iudge in the Church and since a learned King like King Henrie the eight who was the first temporall Prince that euer made himselfe Ex Regio jure Head of the Church in spirâ—tuall matters a new strange Doctrine and therefore iustly condemned by Caluin for monstrous But suppose hee were such a Head yet you all confesse that hee may erre in matters of Faith And so you acknowledge may your Archbishops and Bishops and your whole Clergie in their Conuocation-house euen making Articles and Decrees yea though a Councell of all your Lutherans Calâ—â—â—nists Protestants c. of Germanie France Engiana c. were all ioyned together and should agree all which they neuer will doe to compound and determine the differences among themselues yet by your ordinarie Doctrine of
insist for the present but admitting it as true that wickednesse of mens persons doth not impeach the holinesse of their functions which they haue receiued of God nor make Gods ordinances as his Word and Sacraments of none effect But tell me for Gods loue Master Waddesworth is it likely that this Monarchie thus sought thus gotten thus kept thus exercised is of God Are these men that wholly forsaking the feeding of the flocke of God dreame of nothing now but Crowns and Scepterâ— serue to the Church to no vse in the world vnlesse it be to breake the ancient Canons and oppresse with their power all that shall but vtter a free word against their ambition and tyrannie are they I will not say with you good heads of Gods Church but members of it and not rather limbes of Satan Consider those Texts My Kingdome is not of this world Vos autem non sic Consider the charge which Saint Peter giues to his fellow Presbyters 1. Pet. 5. 2 3 4. Now I beseech our Lord deliuer his Church from this tyrannie and blesse you from being a member of such a Head CHAP. XI Of lacke of succession Bishops true Ordinations Ordâ—rs Priesthood I Come now to your motiue from succession Where I maruell first that leauing the succession of Doctrine which is farre more proper and intrinsecall to the Churches being you stand vpon that of Persons and Offices Yea and about them too immediately passe from that which is of Essence to the externall formalities in consecration and ordination according to the ancient Councels Haue you forgotten what you said right now that matters of ceremonie and gouernment are changeable Yea but in France Holland and Germanie they haue no Bishops First what if I should defend they haue because a Bishop and a Presbyter are all one as Saint Ierome maintaines and prooues out of holy Scripture and the vse of Antiquitie Of which iudgement as Medina confesseth are sundrie of the ancient Fathers both Greeke and Latineâ— Saint Ambrose Augustine Seduliuâ— Primasius Chrysostome Theodorit Oecumenius and Theophylact which point I haue largely treated of in another place against him that vndertooke Master Alablasters quarrell Besides those Churches in Germanie haue those whom they call Superintendents and generall Superintendents as out of Doctor Bancroft by the testimonie of Zanchius and sundrie Germane Diuines you might perceiue Yea and where these are not as in Geneua and the French Churches yet there are saith Zanchius â—sually certaine chiefe men that doe in a manner beare all the sway as if order it selfe and necessitie led them to this course And what are these but Bishops indeede vnlesse wee shall wrangle about names which for reason of State those Churches were to abstaine from As for that you say Lay men intermedâ—le there with the making of their Ministers if you meane the election of them they haue reason for anciently the people had alwayes a right therein as Saint Cyprian writes to the Churches of Leon and Astorga there in Spaine Plebs ipsa maxime habet potestatem vel eligendi dignos Sacerdotes vel indignos recusandi and in sundrie places of Italie this vsage doth continue to this day If yee meane it in Ordination yee are deceiued and wrong these Churches as Bellarmine himselfe will teach you lib. De Clâ—ricis cap. 3. For amongst the Lutherans and Caluinists also saith hee which haue taken away almost all Ecclesiasticall rites they onely lay on hands and make Pastors and Ministers who though they be not Pastors and Bishops indeede would be so accounted and called In England you misse first the lesser orders and say we are made Ministers per saltum as if all that are made Priests among you were Psalmists Sextens Readers Exâ—rcists Torch-bearers Subdeacons and Deacons before Remember I pray what the Master of the Sentences saith of Deaconship and Priesthood Hos solos primitiuâ— Ecclesia legitur habuisse de his solis praeceptum Apostoli habemus Hee meanes in the Epistles to Tâ—â—othy and Titus Againe Subdiaeonos vere Acolythos precedeâ—te tempore Ecclesia sibi constituit What and were the Primitiue and Apostolike Churches no true Churches or neede wee to bee ashamed to bee like them Besides those Councels that yee speake of it should seeme were of no great either antiquitie or authoritie when not onely Presbyters without passing through any order but Bishops without being so much as baptized were ordayned As Nectarius of Constantinople Synesius of Cyrene Ambrose of Millaine Constantine II. of Rome it selfe This therefore is a very sleight exception Your next is well worse touching the Ordination at the Nags-head where the Consecration of our first Bishops as you say was attempted but not effected It is certaine you say and you are sure there was such a matter although you know and haue seene the records themselues that afterward there was a Consecration of Doctor Parker at Lambeth Alas Master Wadesworth if you bee resolued to beleeue lies not onely against publike Acts and your owne eye-sight but against all probabilitie who can helpe it I had well hoped to haue found that ingenuitie in you that I might haue vsed your testimony vnto others of that side touching the vanitie of this fable as hauing shewed you the Copie of the record of Doctor Parkers consecration which I had procured to bee transcribed out of the Acts which your selfe also at your returne from London told mee you saw in a blacke Booke Now I perceiue by your perplexed writing and enterlining in this part of your Letter you would faine discharge your conscience and yet vphold this lie perhaps as loth to offend that side where you now are and therefore you haue deuised this temper that the one was attempted the other effected But it will not bee For first of all if that at the Nags-head were but attempted what is that to the purpose of our Ordinations which are not deriued from it but from the other which as you say was effected at Lambeth And are you sure there was such a matter How are you sure Were you present there in person or haue you heard it of those that were present Neither of both I suppose but if it were so that some bodie pretending to haue beene there present told you so much how are you sure that hee lied not in saying so much more when you haue it but at the third or fourth hand perhaps the thirtieth or fortieth But consider a little is it probable that men of that sort in an action of that importance and at the beginning of the Queenes reigne when especially it concerned both them and her to prouide that all things should bee done with reputation would bee so hastie and heedlesse as to take a Tauerne for a Church Why might they not haue gone to the next Church as well They thought to make the old Catholike Bishop drunken Thus the Wisbich and Framyngham Priests were wont to tell the tale Is it likely that