godly and yet vnperfect as wee our selues and all our actions and offices are Though our Bretheren boast too much of puritie and perfection wee rather tend to it than that wee are as yet able to apprehend it For as the Apostle sayth 1. Cor. 13. vers 9 10. wee knowe in parte and wee prophecie in parte but when that which is perfect is come then that which is in parte shal be abolished Would God both for our Bretheren and for vs wee were in the better parte for our ministerie and more neere to perfection all of vs both in that and in all things els than we be And for our partes wee are readie to abide all due and true reformation But as for such reformations as these are that these our learned Bretheren which call themselues all the faythfull Ministers doe desire or rather doe not desire but prescribe vnto us for the discipline and reformation of the Church of England they are so farre off from any neernes to perfection that forsooth and forsooth they would rather deforme vs altogether than any whit reforme vs or amend vs. Fourthly saye they if you will see how well the authoritie which they claime and practise is vsed of them that onely haue the choyce and admission of ministers looke ouer the whole Realme of England what a multitude of vnfit pastors shall you finde in euery place so that Ieroboam neuer made worse priestes of the refuse of the people to serue his golden Calues than they haue ordeyned ministers to feede the flocke of Christ which hee hath purchased with his owne blood It is good to see how well or ill the authoritie claymed is practised or vsed so wee see it with an intentiue and yet a single eye discerning euermore betweene the authoritie it selfe and the practise and in the practise betweene the vse and the abuse thereof Now if wee shall thus looke ouer the whole Realme of England which GOD bee praysed is a large circuite and conteyneth a very great number of Pastors it is lesse maruell if there bée many not in all things so good as their office and order doth require Saint Paule findeth fault in the Church of Corinthus euen with all the prophetes there being though not all of them yet many the ordinarie ministers and teachers of the worde for their great disorders And how much more especially in this our more corrupt age is it lesse woonder if wee should see a multitude of vnfit pastors in looking ouer a whole Realme and that such a Realme as Englande is maior est orbis vrbe sayth Saint Ierome And yet in the Citie where hee was at Rome the multitude of the euill Priestes or ministers and their enuie made him forsake Rome and goe to Bethelem Yea for the enuie of the Priestes and ministers long before him Tertullian from growing in malecontentment with the dissolute life of the ministers fell so farre from them that in the ende hee became a Montaniste And the too much disliking of the corrupt liues of the Bishops the Clergie and the Ministers in the auncient Churche hath made many too austere Ministers otherwise excellent learned men and streight liuers become Scismatikes as many of the precise nouatians and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Puritanes were But now if wee shall looke ouer the whole Realme of England what a multitude say our Bretheren of vnfit Pastors shall you finde in euery place And indeede what a multitude I graunt moe than wee woulde there were or than there should bee For in duetie there ought none at all to bee vnfit But if wee shall viewe the number well without sinister affection I trust wee shall not stude considering the whole Realme so great a multitude as our Bretherens exclamation grounded on ill will to the state of all the Ministers and to their Ministerie it selfe would make the worlde beleeue that there is vnfitnesse in so many that euen in euery place wee should finde a multitude of them Whereas contrarywise though there bee not a multitude of fitte Pastors in euery place yet there is some and some good multitude in many places God bee praysed for it and encrease the multitude of them But they finde fault not onely with the multitude of vnfitte Pastors in euery place but that also they bee so vnfitte that they spare not to saye so that Ieroboam neuer made worse Priestes of the refuse of the people to serue his golden Calues then they haue ordeyned Ministers c. Where here they speake not of so odde particular euill persons either degenerating from their order or vnworthie to haue bene at alâ— ordeyned or perchaunce crept into the number by subornation and counterfeiting to bée ministers and are not as in a whole Realme such naughtie persons may bee found but speake it generally and of a great multitude in euery place These bitter speeches seeme rather to arise from the froth of some sharpe choler if not very melancholie comprehending in generall the good and the bad to compare not onely the poore ministers that to their habilities feede the flocke of Christ which he hath purchased with his owne blood to the Idolatrous Priestes that Ieroboam made of the refuse of the people to serue his golden Calues but also with like generalitie of all the Bishoppes without discerning who hath made any vnfit ministers and who not that the fault being personall might light vpon the persons offending they charge them all alike that they haue all done as did that execrable Apostata and Idolatrous tyrant Ieroboam who being though a Prince yet a mere laye man tooke vppon him to make Priestes and ministers of the rascalles and refuse of the people whereas in déede neither hee had he bene otherwise neuer so good coulde make any Priestes at all nor they had they bene neuer so â—â—tte learned or godly could bée made Priestes being not of the stocke of Aaron and so in deede were no true Priestes at all But what doe I goe about to repell this so manifest a sclaunder the indignitie whereof deserueth chastisement rather than answere saue that our Bretheren vâ—â— a little poynt of cunning herein from which they should the rather shunne because as ill men as was Ieroboam euen many auncient Hereticks vsed the same comparison And at this daye it is the common practise of the Papistes when they would breede a misliking of all our doctrine and our ministerie to vndermyne it by finding fault with the ministers vnfitnesse in their liues and learning And because they dare not openly condemne all which is their meaning they make a shewe to bee offended with the multitude of the vnfittest ministers I wisse if wee should thus rigge into the vnfitnesse and that of ministers which are greate fauourites and vegers of these deuises and reformations wee could finde if not a multitude in euery place which God forbid yet some
Who sayth hereon Lib. 4. Instit. cap. 10. sect 29. in these wordes Of the former kind that is to say of those ceremoniall constitutions that are for comelines Paule hath examples as that no prophane banquetes be mixed together with the holy supper of the Lord. That women except they couer their heads come not forth into a publike place and many other thinges are had in 〈◊〉 vse That wee pray kneeling and bare headed that wee administer the Sacramentes of the Lorde not vncleanely but with some dignitie that in burying the dead wee giue thereto a certaine honestie and such other thinges as pertayne thereto In the other kinde that is to say for order there are houres designed to the publike prayers to the sermons and to the mysticall actions In the sermons themselues there is quiet and silence and places appoynted thereunto the tunes or singing together of the hymnes and daies prefixed for celebrating of the L. supper that which Paule forbiddeth that women teach not in the Church and if there be any such like thinges But chiefely those that conserue discipline as the Catechizing the Eccl. Censures excommunication fastes the thinges that may be referred to that cataloge Thus may we referre all the Eccl. constitutions which we receaue for good and wholesome vnto two heads for the one sort of them haue respect to rites and ceremonies the other to discipline and peace Howebeit because here is daunger least of the one parte the false Bishops shoulde snatch a pretence hereupon to excuse their wicked and tyrannicall lawes he speaketh of those Popish Bishops whome he before described and on the other part least there should be anie too much fearefull which being warned by the former euils would leaue no place at all to lawes bee they neuer so holy it is a thing woorth the labour here to testifie that to conclude I doe allowe those humane constitutions which are founded on the authoritie of God and which are taken out of the scripture and so are wholly diuine Let the example be in the kneeling which is made while the solemne praiers are had The question is whether it be an humane tradition that is lawefull for euerie one to refuse or neglect I saye it is suche an humane tradition as that with all it is a diuine tradition It is of God in respect it is a part of that comelinesse the care and conseruation whereof is commended vnto vs by the Apostle But it is of man in respect that it designeth out in specialtie that which generally was ordeined rather than expounded By this one example wee may esteeme what wee ought to thinke of this whole kinde to witte because the Lorde hath faythfully comprehended with his holie eyes and clearely declared both the whole summe of true righteousnesse and all the partes of the worship of his godhead and whatsoeuer was necessarie to saluation in these he onely is our Master that must be heard but because in externall Discipline and Ceremonies he would not particularly prescribe what we should followe neither iudged he one forme to be conuenient for all ages of the worlde we must here flee vnto the generall rules that he gaue that what thinges so euer the necessitie of the Churche shal require to be commaunded for order and comelinesse may be driuen to them Thus among other these ceremoniall constitutions writeth Caluine of kneeling at the times of solemne prayers which are then most requisite while wee are participating the heauenly mysteries of the Lordes supper And therefore kneeling though it be not necessarie with any simple necessitie in it selfe yet as it is a reuerent and diuine ceremonie it is necessarie as conuenient at the times of solemne prayer and thankesgiuing and of consequence at the communion both for order and comelinesse of the bodies gesture and for testification and edification also of the mindes deuotion But least a surplusse here should be left out that a surplusse say they in common prayer is more necessarie than a deuoute minde I do not thinke that any man is or euer was of that opinion For were he neuer so blinde a Papist yet till he chiefely stoode on his blinde deuotion And I appeale euen to our Brethrens consciences whether they thinke indéede as I beleeue they doe not that any man is of that minde But what shall the reader and and all the people thinke of this that the surplusse being here one of the ceremonies brought in for instance to admitte varietie as times persons and occasions serue to bee diuerse and so of consequence may well be vsed yea and by the correlation of this rule should be vsed ordinarily though it admitte sometimes such occasion of leauing it off And this also is become one of the desires in this Learned Discourse of all the faithfull ministers that seeke the reformation of the Church of Englande that the surplusse may be accounted but as a ceremonie that admitteth such varietie And yet we sée there are many amongst them so deuoted against a surplusse that rather than they will weare it at any time they will forsake all the ministerie and make great sturre and trouble about it notwithstanding the iudgement of all the reuerende and learned men that haue testified as euen heere their selues also are faine to doe the indifference of it and of the vse thereof But our Brethren not thinking of this contradiction betwéene their owne writing and their doing but thinking if at least wise they so thinke indeed that there be but what number they tell not that thinke these ceremonies are more necessarie than they be let vs nowe see what reason moueth our Brethren to thinke that there be such as do thinke so And great occasion say they offered to the ignorant so to thinke when they see them that preach most diligently praye most feruently and minister the Sacraments most reuerently according to Christes institution to bee displaced of all ministerie for a crosse or a font or a surplusse or some such other trifle Euery thing here that misliketh our Brethr. is but a trifle with them And thus they pretende vnto the world that they be displaced but for trifles But what soeuer these are is all the communion booke and publike prescribed forme of diuine seruice but a trifle too And is the ciuill Christian Magistrates authoritie and so the Queenes Maiesties supreme gouernement in all Ecclesiasticall causes so well as temporall and of consequence in all these and other causes in controuersie betweene vs but a trifle with our Brethren too and is all the superior authoritie of the Bishops all the controuersies about Discipline and the Ecclesiasticall Regiment of their tetrarchie for Doctors Pastors Gouernors and Deacons offices which they contende for and all the other particular matters in question both in this Learned Discourse and in all their other treatises which they still set foorth nothing but trifles For these
God So be it Blessed are the peace makers for they shall be called the children of God Math. 5.9 AA A DEFENCE OF THE GOVERNEMENT ESTABLISHED IN THE CHVRCH OF ENGLAND FOR ECCLESIASTICALL MATTERS The Preface of the learned discourse vnto the Christian Reader THE holie Prophets hauing oftentimes but searched when and at what time the foreseeing spirit of God declared vnto them the manifold afflictions and troubles of the Church to come haue therevpon entred into great lamentations for the same and haue not only wept and fasted themselues but haue compiled for the Churche whole bookes of Lamentations therein instructing them what waye to take for appeasing the wrath of God breaking out against them The Defence c. IN this applying the great lamentations weepings and fastings of the holy Prophets for the manifolde afflictions and troubles of the Church to come either in their daies or the timeâ— succeeding wherof they prophecie◠〈◊〉 the semblable manner of weeping â—asting compiling like bookes of Lamentations by the fore-seeing Spirit of God reuealing vnto these our brethren â—â—e liâ—e manifolde afflictions now to inâ—â—â— vpon the church for the like offences our brethren héere in 〈◊〉 both too much abuse the fore-seeing spirit of God and take too farre vpon them 〈◊〉 be such Prophets and offer too great an iniury to Gods Church 〈◊〉 time God be praised héere in England both in threatning vs 〈◊〉 like calamities and in burdening vs with the like causes 〈◊〉 â—hey can shew in them selues the like warrant of the fore-seeing 〈◊〉 and shew also that we prouoke the â—ierce wrath of God in like offâ—nces But what speake I of their abussingthus the applicationof tâ—â—se holâ— Prophetes when they dare also abuse the Apostle S. Peters words and his application of those Prophetes and of the for-seeing Spirite of God in them Doth Peter applie it to any such manifolde afflictions and troubles of the Church to come to prouoke any to enter into great lamentations for the same to weepe and faste and to compile for the church whole bookes of lamentations and not rather in that place heere quoted cite onely the Prophets fore-telling of our saluation and of the comming of Christ and although withall of his sufferings yet of his glorye c. to confirme our faith in him whose wordes are these 1. Pet. 1.9 c. Receiuing the ende or rewarde of your faith euen the saluation of your soules of which saluation the Prophets haue inquired and searched which prophecied of the grace that should come vnto you searching when or what time the spirite which testified before of Christ which was in them should declare the sufferings that should come vnto Christ and the glory that should follow vnto whome it was reuealed that not vnto themselues but vnto vs they shoulde minister the thinges that are nowe shewed vnto you by them which haue preached vnto you the Gospell by the holye Ghoste sente downe from heauen the which thinges the Angels desire to beholde What is héere in this application of S. Peter that is not cleane contrary to that wherto our brethren do applie it This therefore is too foule a wresting of the Scripture and that in the veryâ— first entrie into the matter to stumble vpon such an vntruth or rather so to enforce it to discourage the people and to slaunder al the state of the Church thereby I note not this that we on the other side should instifle our selues as though we were not sinners or as though our sinnes were not manifold and grieuous sinnes or as though we wouldflatter any in their sinnes or lay pillowes vnder their armes lull them in the sleepe of security with singing vnto them Peace Peace No howsoeuer they burthen vs vntruly with that poynt we do by the grace of God as much acknowledge our manifold wickednesse and heauie prouocation of Gods wrath as doe our brethren though in other respectes then they doe For that which they impute to the lawes orders established in our Churche we sée not any iust cause so to diuerte the faulte from vs but rather to acknowledge in repentaunce the disorders to bee in our selues in not submitting our selues as we ought to doo in the duetie of our obedience to the lawes and orders For when we consider the sincerity of our faith whiâ—h God hath giuen vs grace by his Gospel to professe and beholde the â—â—â—uelous light of his kingdome into the which out of the power of darknâ—sse and shadow of death wherein we sat he hath translated vs the vnâ—â—ekeable ioy and consolation of the spirit of God that we receiue héereby doth recomfort and confirme vs against the feare of our sinnes and terrour of the wrath of God But when againe we consider how we walke not in this light that shineth to vs but professe to be the children of light and commit the works of darkenes how our laws be good and our liues be euill this is a great touche vnto our conscience which rebating our ioy bringeth feare least the kingdome should be taken from vs and giuen to a nation that shall bring foorth better fruits thereof When we see how these three capitall vices of the world whereof S. Iohn complaineth The lust of the flesh the lust of the eies the pride of life doth so mightily cary away the greatest parte this we crie out vpon and bewaile the euent whereof indeede wee feare and giue warning of it as much we hope to our powers as any of our brethren do at least we confesse this is our duty offer to ioyne with our brethren in the earnest reprehension of these and al other vices and in denouncing Gods righteous iudgements on all those that continue vnrepentant in their sinnes and we reioyce with them that reioice and mourn with them that thus do mourn wishing to god herein that they also would ioine with vs. But their mourning is not for such grieuances nor their thretnings for such vices For we sée many that are great fauorites of their plotformes both dwell swel in these vices and nothing by our brethreÌ„ said vnto them yea they are of theÌ„ to all apparaunce not a little esteemed as of whom they are most maintained and vpholden But our brethrens chiefest mourning is a grudging repining at their brethren preachers as themselues are professors of the Gospel with theÌ„ and the chiefest spirituall fathers in our Church be they neuer so learned godly yet are they grieued at their superior dignitie better mayntenance and greater authority Yea they maligne and burden the lawes orders and gouernment it selfe not the abuses onely Yea they spare not the authority that is giuen to the Prince their most gratious Soueraigne but are offended therewith that they cannot thereby haue the entry which they séeke for into those lawes orders authority offices and discipline which they would bring in and wherof they haue
vdder of his Cow more milke vnto my Neighbour yeeldes Our neighbours haue this our neighbours haue that and wee wantâ— these things Fie brethren for shame what neede this emulation of our neighbours and murmuring against our owne state And yet it is not altogether so neither for them the more is the pitie if it otherwise pleased God Neither for vs thanks be giuen to God for it and for that plentifull measure of the encrease and glory of the kingdome oâ— Christ in this our reformed Church of England and for the suppression of the tyrannie of Sathan and Anti-christe and of his Ministers and confederates Wee haue great cause highly to magnifie God for the woÌ„derfull and gratious works he hath wrought for vs aboue all our neighbours round about vs yea aboue all the particuler Churches néere or farre dispersed in the world at this day euen in this estate of Ecclesiasticall Gouernement established And all our neighbours where GOD hath anie Churche neuer so muche reformed doe I hope reioyce together with vs therefore yea not the beste of them but bee it spoken to the glorye of God and without vpbraiding to others haue found no small comfortable benefite at our handes and doe all most thankfully reacknowledge the same without condemning reprouing or grudging at our state of Ecclesiasticall gouernement established what other kinde of reformation soeuer in their Ecclesiasticall Gouernement they bee directed by Onelie we our selues murmur and grudge condemne and slaunder both among our selues and to all our neighbours our owne state which is so euill that woulde God were itaccording to his acceptable good pleasure the kingdome and glory of Christe and the suppression of Sathan and Antichriste though I had rather wish it did no lesse did but halfe as faste encrease and prosper then God bee glorified for it in our state it doeth And yet God graunt both in ours and in our neighbours states and all other parts of Gods true Church according as we al say in the Lordes Prayer Thy kingdome come these blessings of God may daily more and more encrease and prosper And so by Gods grace it shoulde still doe better and better Maugre Sathan and Antichriste if our owne brethren would not hindervs and all reformed Churches shoulde doe well inough notwithstanding we differ from them and they from vs Yea though both of vs differ from the state of the Primitiue and pure Church not in truthe of Faith and vnitie of Doctrine But in matter or manner of Orders Offices Rites and Ceremonies concerning Ecclesiasticall regiment so farre as they are not prescribed by any perpetuall rule other then for the time and state or for order and comelinesse For the difference of these thinges is not â—irectlye materiall to saluation neither ought to breake the bonde of peace and Chrystian concorde But they may thinke and wishe well to vs and wee in the name of the Lorde thinke well and wishe good lucke to them Yea to wishe that they had no better state then we haue on condition they had no worse and might alwayes haue as good I thinke all our neighbours reformed Churches woulde bee soone entreated to say AMEN For in what hard case God help them good neighbours they be their selues feele or feare it daily and we heare of it and cease not daily to pray for them and as we may put to our helping hands vnto them Yea our brethren their-selues vpon better aduisement since in their last supplication made to her gratious Maiestie to the high Court of Parliament assembled 1587. pag. 8. do confesse it saying The Churches of God rounde about vs goe to wracke in Fraunce Belgia and a great part of highe Dutche I woulde Scotland had continued in her first loue and that the hands of the builders were strengthened among you But in conclusion neither their state or ours howsoeuer they stande are bound to any perpetuall forme of all the orders and offices of Ecclesiasticall regiment Theirs may perhaps be better for them their aflicted state standing as it doth ours all things in our established state of Gouernment considered is best for vs. Away therefore good brethren with these disordered tearmes This disordred state of ours for they are not spéeches beséeming thankfull and faithfull ministers to God nor louing and obedient subiects to our Prince and Superiours so disorderlie cast forth on the state of Eccle. regiment Which toucheth not onely Eccl. persons against whome perhaps our brethren will make no seruple of coÌ„science though their mouthes runne ouer be they neuer so much their brethren their Pastors their betters their superiours their Bish or Arch. to whome their selues peraduenture haue sworne Canonicam obedientiam But these disordred speeches of theirs touch the Magistrate yea their Soueraigne very néere and therefore they are not onely disordred but daungerous speeches Neither ought our brethren to vpbraid our labours vnto vs that weâ— haue so long laboured with so little profit to discourage the painefull laborer in the Lords vine-yard and to make our handes weake beecause our worke prospereth not so fast in our hands as we would wishe it did And yet it prospereth God be praysed with more profit then either we see or our brethren like But profit or not profit let vs still labour and thankes be to God then we labour All are not so idle loyterers as afterwarde our brethren complaine wee labour notâ— and héere they finde fault with our labours But labour we or loyter we they must still labour infinding fault or else they should loyter for lack of matter in discoursing But howsoeuer they esteeme of our labours the Laborer saith the Lord Luc. 10. is worthie his rewarde And as their-selues afterwarde do note out of S. Paule 1. Timoth. â— The elders that rule well are worthie double honor especially they which labour in the worde and doctrine But they tell vs that sentence maketh for their gouerning and not teaching elders whether it doth so or no we shall God willing at large examine on their allegation of the same but admitting it had included any such Elders at that time were their labours to be honoured that ruled well among them and yet perhaps with as little profit And is the laborer in the word and doctrine to be despised and his labour to be left beecause we haue so long laboured with so little profit But for all this discouragement of our brethren let vs not be weary of wel-dooing and commit the euent profit to the Lorde and hearken rather to the Apostles exhortation 1. Cor. 16. Therefore my beloued brethren be ye stedfast vnmouâ—able aboundant alwayes in the worke of the Lord forasmuch as ye know that your labor is not in vaine in the lorde And this is our comfort against this perswasion of our brethren to leaue that state of ours wherein we haue so long laboured with so little profit And yet we hope we haue not all bene
speaking of the state thereof in the Apostles times that the Church of God was perfect in all her Regiment before there was anie Christian Prince For that might yet haue béene restrayned to that time considering the speciall prerogatiues of that age to haue supplied the want of Christian Princes Notwithstanding it was not euen then so perfect but that S. Paule wished the Regiment thereof to haue béene better And that better euen by christian Princes Else had hee neuer had such troubles nor néeded to haue wished that Agrippa Festus Bernice c. had béene Christians nor haue appealed vnto Nero nor haue had such hinderaunces in his function But when these our bretheren thinking to haue carried this cleare awaye will nowe make a generall rule thereon that the Churche may stande perfecte still in all her Regiment and that in most blessed state with-out anie Christian Princes then GOD helpe poore Christian Princes For being suche poore helpes vnto the Regiment of the Church they may bee as well spared or wished â—way which the Anabaptists wish them as to be wished for which S. Paul did wish them saue for the Princes saluation of their owne soules in which respect they are not Christian Princes Nay if this were true whie may they not as well with the verie Anabaptistes set downe this rule to that the Churche of God may stande and doth stand better without them For howsoeuer they séeme here to allure the reader with these godly titles of the Churche of God of perfection in all her regiment and that she standeth at this day in most blessed estate where Christian Princes are not at all and the ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers yet dare we not ascribe these titles of perfection in all her Regiment and of most blessed state vnto the Church of God being militant and trauelling still vnder imperfection But we acknowledge as S. Paule sayeth 1. Cor. 13. that we knowe imperfectly and we teache imperfectly but when that which is perfect shall come then that which is imperfect shall be done away And then shall come indéede the most blessed estate of the Churches perfection in all her regiment But if it be nowe alreadie and that where no Christian Princes are or where the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers then whereto serue the Christian Princes and the Ciuill Magistrates to fauour the Gospel but rather to hinder the perfection of the Church in all regiment and to cause it not to be in most blessed estate For where any Christian Princes are yea the greatest fauourers of the Church of God that euer were it could neuer yet aspire heereto But where they were not and are not there these Learned discoursers tell vs that the Church of God was perfect in all her Regiment and standes in such estate as is most blessed But where was this perfectioÌ„ in all the Regiment of it before Christian Princes And where standeth yet at this day in most blessed estate where the ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers May not the places be named that we might view theÌ„ Must we runne to Vtopia for to séeke them out Where was this in Sodome and Gomorra vnder Chedor-laomer where the ciuill Magistrates nor al the people were any great fauourers of the Church of god Where Lot being righteous and dwelling among theÌ„ in seeing hearing theÌ„ they vexed his righteous soule froÌ„ day to day with their vnlawfull deedes Was he his family in most or more blessed estate or the Church of God there better gouerned then in SaleÌ„ vnder Melchizedeck or then in the Pilgrimage it made vnder Abraham Was the Church of God better vnder Pharao then vnder Moses vnder the tyrants that oppressed theÌ„ then vnder the Iudges that deliuered theÌ„ Was the Churches gouernment better vnder Saul then vnder Dauid vnder Ieroboam Achab Manasses other Idolatrous Princes then vnder SalomoÌ„ Iosaphat Iosias Ezechias other godly Princes is it more perfect in all her regiment and standeth in more blessed estate at this day vnder the great Turke in Europe vnder the Sophie in Asia vnder the great Chan in India where also great partes of the Church are dispersed then vnder godly Christian Princes in Englande Germanie Scotlande Denmarke Suecia Polonia Hungarie and all other places where Christianitie is openly professed at this day Is the regiment of the Church of God better in more blessed estate in Italie vnder the Popes tyrannie or in France in Spaine in Flaunders c. where the Christian Princes are not the greatest fauourers of the light of the Gospell then here in England where her Maiestie fauoureth the same so tenderly and hath ventered her state life so often for it O vnthankefulnesse O blind what should I call it Malice No but selfe willed opinion the to deface the good estate of the Church of God wherin we are vnder such a right Defender of the faith defended sheilded from all our enemies in a farre more blessed estate then we deserue will make such an odious comparison as this is But as the old saying is itch and ease can no man please But if the Church be so imperfect in all her regiment vnder our most gratious and true Christian Prince here in England if our estate be so disordered and so little blessed in comparison of theirs at this day where the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers why do not these Learned discoursers take their course thether where the Church is so perfect in all her regiment euen as they would haue it in most blessed estate that they can wish it If this be a matter of such moment necessitie as they would beare vs in hande why go they not thether where they say it is euen at this day they may goe thether when they will No I warrant you they wil none of it on that price but will tarrie here stil trouble their brethren though they haue it not No no whatsoeuer is pretended to get that they would haue if they can-not haue it they haue learned this or they may easily doe if they trie experience that it is good kéeping themselues wel when they are well And welfare a good Christian Prince that fauors the Church of God and the Gospell of Iesus Christ when all is done But what meane they by these glaunces that the Church of God doth stande at this day in most blessed estate where the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers Do they meane by ciuill Magistrates as they did before where they sayd Whatsoeuer it please the Ciuill Magistrate to call or account indifferent c. Referring this terme to our most gracious Prince Soueraigne But I thinke they do not meane so for as they speak more at large saying Where the ciuil Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers noting many or more then one some other estates which they coÌ„pare with ours so
It woulde then manifestly appeare that they are not so plentifully furnished and that they neuer had in all their Ciuill warres any such great numbers of Learned Pastors and so much the fewer for that many of their small many haue bene either so slaine and martyred at home or dispersed abroad fled into other nations that I suppose if al the remnants of them were assembled and viewed they shoulde be founde not halfe a quarter able except God as he is able who spake the worde and great was the multitude of the preachers raise vp a great multitude of moe learned Pastors to furnishe that great populous realme al the seueral congregations in the same And yet nowe as they are in these troublesome times of persecution it may be that in some few places of safest refuge there may well be in respect of their assemblies some congregations among them in Fraunce in England in Germany and in other places whether they are fledd for refuge as to a Sanctuarye whiche God in exile hath prouided for them as God be praysed England is for many nations in which they may easily haue plentifull furniture of godly and learned Pastors Which as it procéedeth from the gratious prouidence of God to confirme his afflicted people in such times of greater triall and necessity so though it lamente our heartes to see their daungers we pray for them with all our harts that they might enioy also such rest of body peace of conscience with the free preaching of the Gospell as we enioy in the meane time it not a little reioiceth our hearts to behold such surniture of learned Pastors as god of his great goodnes hath giuen vnto them for their strengthening And yet should both they we all Christian harts redouble our reioycing if they might enioy these blessings of peace rest with the free preaching of the gospel as we do though as many seueral cōgregatiōs in France were no better furnished with learned though otherwise godly Pastors than are among vs and I thinke they would not repent them of such a bargen But as for those say our brethren that acknowledge no defect in our Church through the great multitude of ignorant Pastors we had rather at this time pray to God to lighten their blindenesse then by any long discourse to discouer their palpable darknesse For such great multitude of ignoraunt pastors vnderstanding them as is before described I hope there be not That there is no defect in the Church through those ignorant pastors that be I knowe of none but do acknowledge it with great griefe and many godly Praelates and other in authority employ their great diligence to the helpe and redresse therof so farre as by any lawfull meenes they may And if any doe otherwise we pray God also with our brethren to lighten their blindnesse and to chaunge their hearts and a Gods name euen by as long discourse as our Brethren will do though they say they will not discouer their palpable darknesse Discouering the same or any other defect in them not as Cham did when he sawe his Fathers nakednes but so far foorth as they alwayes remember that Charitas operit multitudinem peccatorum Charity couereth a multitude of sinnes Which if they would indéede performe they would not make the matter worse than it is and amplifie it by so great multitudes and aggrauate it by calling such multitudes not onelie ignorant persons but Idiotes Idols and a great many fouler and vnfitter tearmes and not onelie bestow such tearmes on them but as many if not worse on the best learned and chiefest in authoritie vnder her Maiestie the Fathers Bishops and Archbishops in the Cleargie and must all these be condemned of blindesse and papable darknesse And when thus they haue poured foorth all that they can imagine and a great deale more than they canne proue or though they could proue were conuenient and it were but for their owne modestitie to haue discouered and to discouer it in such a gybing and scornfull manner and in such eagre moodes and vnreuerent tearmes and to defile with such spéeches not onelie that that might be wished better but withall that that is not onelie tollerable but also commendable in them then to come in with their frumpe and saie they wil rather praie for them than discouer them me thinkes their praier would be more effectuall if their long or short discoursing though it were lesse learned were more temperate But now that our Brethren rather list to pray to God they make their petition saying Woulde to God there were not more difficultye in reforming them that maintaine such inconueniences as except they be taken away we shall neuer be disburdened of the cankers of the Church those vnlearned ministers For while Non-residentes and pluralities be retayned we shall neuer want vnlearned Curates that for small stipendes wil supply the absence of Pluralities and Non-residentes which grosse corruptiōs of pastorall office as they may haue some honest pretence so can they haue no better pretēce neyther are they reteyned with a better conscience then the Priestes in our sauiour Christes time suffered the exchaūgers of money Grasiers and Pulterers to make a burse or shambles and a poultrie yea a denne of theeues of the temple of God which was appointed to be a house of prayer to all nations Mat. 21.12 Mark 11.15 Ioan. 2.14 This prayer expresseth more feruour than knowledge or at leaste their acknowledging of that duetifull obedience and charity that were rather to be wished our brethren had alayed the intemperance of their zeale withall As not onely in wishing them reformed but that there were not more difficulty in reforming them that maintaine such or any other inconueniences in the Church It is an olde saying and of great consideration Better to suffer a mischiefe than an inconuenience and worse is it to maintaine it than to suffer it And how much the more so much the worse If then such thinges as héere be noted are such inconueniences how is not this too vnaduisedly cast foorth in forme of a prayer to God that they muste bee reformed and yet cannot but with more difficultye bee reformed that maintaine them Doth not this too néere touch principally her Maiesty whom in the page before more duetifully they acknowledged to be our most gratious Queene and many ciuill Magistrates besids those Ecclesiasticall Praelates that haue to do in these matters yea the statute and whole state that do maintaine them Besides that euery poore Curate which liueth vnder any Pastor if hee be not himselfe so learned as the Pastor is he is héere called by this mylde tearme a cankre of the Church If a cankred Papist or a cankred haeritike for the Apostle saith so of haerisie false doctrine that it eateth like a cankre had so called our protestant Ministers I woulde haue saide he had spoken like himselfe But it
other debility doth so weaken him that he cannot so lowde so cleane reddily reade as a childe or a woman may do But the holy auncient Fathers did not therfore contemne the office of Readers No they considered the person whome for their calling and office they represented and permitted neither childe woman nor any man neuer so prompt a Reader in such publike and autentike manner to reade these thinges but onely those men that were lawfullye called and authorized thereunto and did greatly reuerence and estéeme this office of Readers although they were not yet made Pastors but were Readers only And shall we now contemne them condemne them when these Readers are Pastors also and say that such a Pastor reading doeth the thinges which a childe of ten yeeres olde may do as well as he And yet it followes not if there were some such Pastors whome a childe didde excell that if any such vpoÌ„ some especiall consideration were born withall we shall neuer lacke vnlearned Pastors ignorant and vngodly people simonicall and sacrilegious Patrones c. Whereas mée thinkes and I speake it bonafide and I hope bona cum venia that rather of the twaine if these our brethrens deuises should take place we should haue more coÌ„teÌ„pt of learning and greater number of vnlearned Pastors and so more ignorant and vngodly and contentious people more simonicall and sacrilegious patrones if any patrones at all should be allowed more slow forwardnesse of the building of Gods church beside other many moe new superstitious fantasies which for shortnes we omit to speake of than eyther now there is or euer was or euer would be by any direct occasion of reading a prescript number of psalmes and chapters of the Scriptures with other appointed formes of prayer as now we haue But our brethren supposing they haue héere so full confuted this publike reading of prescribed formes of prayer psalmes and chapters that wee our selues would séeke to haue it yet for a while at least to be tollerated they would cut of this also and say What though some say formall reading might be borne withall for â— time vntill the Church might be prouided of sufficient pastors which yet is not graunted shall it therfore continue alwayes to the perpetuall decay of knowledge and hurte of the Church of God Who are those some that so say that formall reading might bee borne withal for a time vntil c And what is héere meant by formal reading If it be a comelie and reuerent forme of reading a prescript number of Psalmes Chapters of the Scriptures with other appointed formes of prayer before mentioned Why shoulde anie saie it might bee borne withall for a time vntill the Church might be prouided of sufficient pastors as though the reading of these thinges should no longer be suffered but that afterward those that shoulde be thought to be sufficient pastors should haue no appointed formes of Prayer at all nor any number at all of Psalmes or chapters of the scriptures prescribed vnto them but that euery sufficient pastor might be free to vary in his formes of prayer and number of Psalmes and chapters of the scripture at his pleasure What sufficiency shall be appointed for such Pastors is not here set downe For my part I thinke there is no sufficiency in a Pastor to be counted a sufficient priuiledge so clearely to acquite him but that although he may now and then leaue out or adde or alter some part of the prescribed and appointed forme vpon occasion at his discretion yet were it not conuenient were he neuer so sufficient learned that there shoulde be no forme at all appointed For wee must not onely consider the sufficiency of the Pastor but withall the sufficiency or insufficiency of the people and the order and comlinesse of the Church Which is best obserued especially in these licentious and perillous times full of errors and corruptions not when wee are moste at libertye but when Orders appointed doe restraiue vs. But these our Brethren the Learned discoursers reiecte all suche formes of prayer and say What though some saye formall reading might be borne withall for a time vntill the Church might be prouided of sufficient Pastors which is not yet granted No is who are they that haue of late set forth this Pamphlet intituled A booke of the forme of common prayer and ministration of the sacramentes c. agreable to Gods word and the vse of the reformed Churches Is not formal reading and numbers of Psalmes and chapters of the scripture héere prescribed And if this booke of the forme of common prayer be agreable to Gods word and the vse of the reformed Churches howe is this our brethrens Learned Discourse which they call a breefe and playne declaration concerning the desires of all those faithful ministers that haue and doe seeke for the reformation of the Church of Englande agreeable to Gods word and to the vse of the reformed Churches and how do these our Brethren heere affirme that if this formall reading shoulde continue alwayes it shoulde redounde to the perpetuall decay of knowledge and hurt of the Church of God which as Bucer sayth is to the great encrease of knowledge and manifolde benefite of the Churche of God God What greater discouragement is there vnto Studentes then to see the rewardes of learning bestowed as commonly vpon the ignoraunt as vpon the Learned What encouragement is it to idlenesse and slouthfulnesse in them that be already in that vocation to beâ—old them that take no paine to liue in wealth and ease without punishment of their negligence And with what necessary consequence doth this hang vpon the continuance of an appointed forme of prayer Psalmes and Chapters May not the rewardes of learning be bestowed vpon Studentes and yet formall reading of these thinges still continue yea may not Students imploy their time more continually in their studies and haue the more leasure to study better about the expositioÌ„ of the Scriptures when the publike forme of prayer is already appointed and prescribed vnto them True it is that this is a great discouragement vnto Studentes to see the rewardes of Learning as commonlye bestowed vpon the ignoraunt as vpon the learned But woulde not euill Patrones doe so more then they doe except the superior authority of the Bishoppes did not restraine them and if it were so that all were equall and the bestowing of the rewardes of Learning lay in the election of the vnlearned and vulgar people woulde not the same discouragement as commonlye or more commonly fall out then And is this the waye to encourage Studentes vnder pretence that the rewardes of learning are not so well bestowed to spoyle and pull downe Bishoprikes Colleages Cathedrall Churches Glebes and Tythes c. And to take all this cleane away both from the vnlearned and learned too And are these men nowe so carefull of the greate discouragement of
alwayes but because of the people that stande by I said it that they may beleeue that thou hast sent me Moreouer when he rode vnto the Temple with a great assemblie of people about him that certaine Grecians desired to see him anon after Iohn 12. ver 27. he prayed sayth Now is my soule troubled and what shall I say Father saue me from this houre but therefore came I vnto this houre Father glorifie thy name Yea the whole 17. Chapter following what is it else but that seuerall and most singuler prayer that Christe maketh vnto his father in the assemblie of his Disciples partely for himselfe though most especially for them and all his elected Last of all his seuerall prayer euen on the crosse not only praying for his enemies Father forgiue theÌ„ they knowe not what they doe Luke 23.34 but also when he cried with a loud voyce saying Eli Eli Lama sabachthani that is my God my God why had thou forsaken me Mat. 27.46 and Luke 23.46 when also he cryed with a loud voice and sayde Father into thy handes I commende my spirit And as Stephen did consummate his Martyrdom imitating his Master Christ with the like seuerall prayer so the Apostles frequented the Temple the synagogues and other places where the people were assembled to make these their seuerall publike prayers and to heare the law read taking often occasion thereby to preach the gospell vnto them And by S. Paules often protestations of making his prayers Rom. 1. ver 9. God is my witnesse whom I serue in spirite in the Gospell of his sonne that without ceasing I make mention of you alwayes in my prayers c. and to the Phil. cap. 1.3 I thanke my God hauing you in perfecte memorye alwayes in my prayers for all you praying with gladnesse and to the Colloss cap. 1. ver 3. We giue thankes to God euen the father of our L. Iesus Christ alwayes praying for you and to the Thess. 1. Epist. cap. 1. ver 2. We giue God thankes alwayes for you making mention â—f you in our prayers without ceasing c. Now S. Paul frequenting wheresoeuer he came the publike assemblies of the faithfull it argueth that eyther in all places he made some solemne mention of all these seuerall Churches which hath no likelihoode or else that in those publike assemblies of publike prayers he made some secrete and seuerall prayers in his mind or memorie for them Eusebius out of Clements sermons recordeth of Iames the brother of the Lorde that he gaue himselfe to such continuall prayer in the Temple that his knees with kneeling grew to be as harde as Camels knees Eccl. Hist. Lib. 2. cap. 23. which were it true it plainely argueth that for all the often and publike assemblies there made he ceased not as before we hearde of the holy widdowe Anna to continue often his seuerall prayers in the publike assemblies All which premisses well considered wee can not iustlie call it confusion and vncomelinesse if seuerall prayers bee nowe and then made of some though not of euerie man in the time and place of the publike assemblies If our Brethren hadde sayde that they may not bee made at or during the time of vttering the publique prayers by all those that may well heare them this saying had béene allowable And yet to make no short and earnest secrete and seuerall prayers petitions or wishes of the heart or thankes giuing to God at all while pawses fall out betwéene the making open confessions the powring foorth publike prayers the reading of the Psalmes the hearing of the Lessons the rendring of thankes and prayses the marking of the sermons and the celebrating of the sacramentes that betwéene these distincte actions the people may make no seuerall prayers nor any priuate motions of their heartes secretely to God all onely because of the publike assemblie then present were to binde the peoples conscience too too strictly without any prohibition of the Lorde yea rather hauing all these examples as a warrant in such cases to the contrarie where neither the publike prayers nor the publike hearing of the worde nor the publike assemblies nor any mans seuerall or publike edification is disturbed any wayes or hindred These thrée points being thus farre forth and not otherwise to be graunted vnto our Brethren let vs now procéede to the other matters that they finde fault withall Wherin say they there is great abuse in our Churches For as though it were not inough to keepe out preaching by long prescribed formes of prayers these prayers are so pronounced by the Minister that a great number and some not of the worst disposed people thinke it pertayneth not to them to giue eare or consent of minde vnto them Wee speake not heere of such insensible readers whose voyce eyther can not be heard or else can not be vnderstoode whereof there be great numbers nor of the vnfitte place prescribed for the Ministers standing at prayers in the east ende of the house when the simple people shall stand often times 40. or 50. yeardes off in the west ende or of the confusion of voyces whilest all speake at once besides screenes of Roode loftes Organ loftes Idoll cages otherwise called Chauntrie chappelles and high pewes betweene them Which although they doe manifestly hinder edification yet may they not be remoued in many places for defacing the beautie of the materiall houses whereas S. Paule so much esteemeth the building of Gods spirituall house that he commaundeth the glorious gifts of the holy Ghost to cease in the congregation when they doe not help to edification But we speake of this that a great multitude thinke they haue well serued God if they haue beene present at coÌ„mon prayers or any part of them as they were woont to thinke in Poperie although they be neuer so vainely occupied in the Church some in walking some in talking in gathering of money not onely for the poore but for other contributions c. And they that thinke they do best are occupied in their priuate prayers or in reading of bookes while their minister pronounceth publike prayers Our Brethren doe here sharpely chalenge the Churche of Englande for many great abuses by reason of our diuine seruice and publ prayers Howbeit thankes be to God first and in generall for all these great abuses here reckoned vp we may safely affirme that there is no not one of them which can iustly and directly be ascribed to the order in the communion booke for the forme of publik prayer prescribed but may wel inough be helped and redressed both the Eccl. state of gouernement and the appointed order of the diuine seruice remaining still in force anie thing here founde fault with to the contrarie notwithstanding They pretende first that we keepe out preaching by long prescribed formes of prayer For the auowing of prescribing formes of prayer
the publique Prayers also the forme and manner of things with what authority then do our brethren take vpon them to traÌ„spose in the Church of England that which the Church of England hath disposed with what authority can they abrogate or alter the dayes and times of preaching administring the sacraments that the Church of Engl. in like maner by her authority hath disposed with what authority can they dispose assemblies commâ—â—gs together of the people to bee made in other places than to that purpose are disposed with what authority can they controul or disobey the form manner of the publike praiers vsing those thingâ— in the ordinary seruice that the church of Eng. hath disposed to be vsed yet they wil not only refuse to vse thosethings the form manner of publike prayers nor only deface reuile them as naught but set forth oppose against that which by the churches autority is disposed another forme maner of publike prayers of their own disposing Yea if wee were disposed to examine better their owne positions how standeth this with their prayer on the other side of the leafe pag. 69. saying God graunt therfore that in steed of ordinary formes of praier we may haue preaching in all places If the church haue authority to dispose for publike prayer the form manner so that al things be done comely agreeable to order but especially that in all thinges principal regard be had to edification then not only a forme of publike praiers hindreth no whit but furthereth comlines order edificatioÌ„ but also the church vsing her authority in disposing of an ordinary form of publike praiers so well as in disposing the daies times places for preaching it cannot be that preaching in all places shoulde bee had in steed of publike praiers but that both of them should stil continue in their dayes and times places forme and manner by the Churches authority disposed And what followeth hereupon but that either our brethren must denie the Church of England to be the Church and so not to haue authority of their disposing of these things or els granting it to be the Church that is to say a particuler Church for I think they wil not say that they mean this only of the vniuersal church nor yet of euerie seueral congregation for so our Bre. assertion were not true but speaking heere indefinitely that the church hath authority to dispose these thinges they mean euery whole state of any true particular Church in Christendome As the Church of England in Engl. the Scottish Church in Scotl. the Heluetian the Geneuian the French and the Dutch Church in their owne states Which being confessed our Brethren beeing neither the Church vniuersall nor the whole state of the particular Church of England but priuate members in the Church of England and though some numbers of them heere and there collected may make some seuerall congregations yet are they not of sufficient authority no not so to collect themselues or haue any autority of making any assemblings or commings together at all in any place being but priuate persons without the disposing of them that haue autoritie in the Church or of the whole estate of the church of England therunto then must they néedes confesse withall that they doe greatly offende in going about to gaine-say and ouerthrowe this authority of the whole Church of England which hath by her authority so much as in her lies disposed ordeined and established these thinges as touching the circumstaunces for order and comelinesse sake but cheefely for edification as the dayes and times of preaching and administring the sacramentes the places meete for the same and for publike prayers also for the form and manner of vsing those things that all thinges be done comely and agreeable to order but especially that in all things principal regard bee had to aedification Nowe when the Church of Englande hath by her authority and by the authority of the supreme gouernor of her vnder Christe and of all the gouernors ecclesiasticall or politicall of her whole estate thus disposed these thinges Is it lawfull for any priuate persons bee they learned or vnleâ—rned be they few or many in the same Church to resist this autority whether this be to resist euen God or no and whether that which Saint Paule wrot to the Romaines Chapter 13. charging them beeing Christians to obey their Ciuill Magistrates though euil and Heathen in ciuill and indifferent matters do not much more binde euery particular priuate Christian all Christian subiects to obey their Christian Magistrates and all good Christian both Ecclâ—siastical and politike gouernors the whol particular estate autority of their own church wherof they are but priuate members I refer it to euery indifferent readers iudgement to our Bre. own answere on better aduisement of these thinges If our Bre. deny that they haue euer done or yet doe resist the Church of Englands authoritie in disposing these things what was all this that was last spoken of against the ordinary form of publike praier diuine seruice besides the authority it selfe of the ecclesiasticall gouernors and many other things of circumstances for dayes times places and administrations of Sacraments that they so vehemently impugne If they say that herein yet they doe not resist nor speake against the Church of Engl. for her authority to dispose these things but resist and speak against her onely for this that the she hath abused her authority and that she hath encroched further than shee hath lawfull authority to warrant her doing for that her authority as touching these circumstaunces is but for order and comelinesse sake and cheefely for edification and that it is to bée restrained with this limittation So that all thinges bee done comely and agreeable to order but especially that in all thinges principall regarde bee had to edification which S. Paule so often and so precisely vrgeth in the 14. Chapter of the Cor. Neither do we desire to haue the Churches authoritie in these circumstances to bee enlarged one inche further And euen so God bee praysed hath the Church of Englande had and especiall consideration of al these 3. points of comlinesse of order and of edification If they thinke not so acknowledging her to bee a true Church except they can proue it better than hitherto they haue done and yet should they prooue the same also if they coulde with more modesty and humility than they attempt to doe they both offer too great an iniury to their true and louing Mother the Church of England whose Children if any children of the Church they be and bewray too great a partiality to their owne opion And more séemely of the twain it might be thought to all good men that as they confesse their Mother hath authoritie giuen vnto her by their Faâ—her of disposing these circumstances to these ends and
Scripture Which is not ascribed so much to any other starres although they bée bigger farre than the moone is These vaine and friuolous arguments hath this French Bishop which yet both in this point and in all the French antiquities is one of the moste industrious of them all and straineth all his wits to recommend and set out this Salike Lawe wresting and writhing of the scriptures How much better in my opinion and with farre more modesty though otherwise he be also a great fauourer of the French estate aboue England doth Iacobus Meyer the Chronicler of Flaunders write of this matter Lib. 12. fol. 136 saying In the yeare of our Lorde 1335. Easter day being the 16. of Aprill the English warre began which of all other continued longest and was moste cruell And which helde out with truces betweene whiles aboue 100. yeares Which might rather be called a Domesticall sedition than a Warre The Christian common-weale is one kingdome and one house Whatsoeuer warres are made therein are made with great blemish Neither if we shoulde say the trueth they are Warres but most reprochfull seditions King Edward opposed to the Salike Law of the French the diuine Bibles which call the woman to inheritance in defect of the issue male Certaine there were in Fraunce that misliked not those argumentes of Edward Which men being put to death Edward determined to pursue his right although with long and hard warre and with most mightie force of armes to extinguish that Heathenish custome of the French The Salij are sayde while they yet liued among the Scithians to haue ordrined and kept that lawe These Salikes in the time of the decay of the Romane Empire got to themselues the surname of Frankes and began to be called Salij Francici Salike Frankons As also the Frisian Frankes the Saxon Frankes that is to saie the free Frisons the free Saxons to wit those that could bee no longer compelled to paie tributes These Salik Frāks after that they pierced first vnto the riuer of the Rhen and after that euen to the riuer of Sequana or Seine albeit that they also became Christian yet renued they and tooth and naile euen to this daie they haue held that lawe But that this is not so wee haue alreadie shewed euen by Caenalis the chiefest vrger of it Howbeit not without great detrimēt of Christian piety as me thinks And here he noteth in the margine The Lawe Salike hurtfull to the Christian common weale For if these laying aside their hatred and the superstition of that Lawe had nowe ioyned to themselues the riches of Englande thē had the French the English the Scots the Flemmish and the Burgundians growen together into one kingdome and with so mightie a power had easilie destroied that barbarousnesse of Mahomet which continued in Spaine euen almost vntill our times But after that I knowe not by what euill spirit of the French the French haue alwaies attempted to beare rule among other men all things haue bene troubled all things haue beene full of discomfort all things lamentable all thinges seditious Wee haue since that time seene peace no where no where quietnesse England was seene to offer the occasion that was most to be wished for but that Frēch blockishnesse and infelicitie could not take hold thereon being sotted by that Salike lawe And againe Fol. 148. lamenting the greate slaughter at the battaile of Chertsey where hee telleth how the French King called King Edward a Marchant of wooll and King Edward called him the Marchant and author of the Salike Lawe hee sayth The Frenth men alleadge certaine fonde causes of so great a slaughter But I thinke there ought none other to bee alleadged than wee haue before mencioned that is to witte the frinolous right of the French men which is full of controuersie vncertaine and that I may not saie false verilie most farre vnworthie of so great bloudshed I suppresse herein his vnreuerent tearmes of Queene Isabel by whom the right of this title came Onelie I note his iudgement of this pretended Salike Lawe Which sith that all the French writers so earnestlie vrge to stoppe there with the title of the Kings and Queenes of England not one-onelie then in the time of ignoraunce and superstition raigning but that also in this cléere light of the Gospell and manifestation of Gods Lawe euen these notable and excellent learned professours of the Gospell in the French refourmed Churches Caluine and Danaeus sauour yet so much of this French faction that vpon the occasion of womens publike speaking in the congregation they cannot refraine themselues from this humour of their Countrie but must also most vnnecessarilie cast forth these intemperate spéeches and disputations against the right and title of womens publike regiment and that some also among our selues snatching at their arguments with more gréedie newfanglednesse than with aduised confideration haue likewise to disturbe and indaunger our state attempted the like inuectiues I therefore thought it not amisse both for the playner manifestation of the right of that title which I haue heard many desire to bee discussed further than any yet hath done although I meddle not here with titles anie farther than defensiuely for womens right of gouernment to iustifie against all slanders the right of our Princes title for euery mans fuller satisfaction in these questiōs upon these foresaid occasions to be somwhat the larger though withal crauing pardon I confesse to be som what also the more tedious in this long processe herevpō But tedious or not the more pains was mine and they that haue lust and leasure to reade it may or may not at their owne liking I regarding chieflie the satisfying of the curious in these daies at least the staying of the simple from this curiousnesse am driuen my selfe to be rather ouer curious than ouer negligent in slubbering ouer a slight slender answere To returne nowe therefore to Danaeus further argument Of which matter also saith Danaeus procéeding on the proues of his foresayd question in his treatie on 1. Tim. 2 verse 12. folio 84. the examples are extant in Semiramis the Queene of the Assyrians Candace of the Aethiopians Act. 8. verse 27. Cleopatra of the Aegyptians vnder Augustus and Zenobia a most valyant woman vnder Adrian the Emperour To the Empire of which Zenobia many Christian Churches also did obey This argument séemeth to tende to the confirmation of that hée spake before that in Spaine England Scotland and diuerse other regions it was a right and honest matter for a woman to haue the chiefe gouernment ouer men But Danaeus dooth it so coldlie and brings out onelie héere these foure examples of Heathen women and those not of the choisest neither which among the Heathen women hee might haue founde that hée rather séemeth in so slender defending it to oppugne it But let vs take the view of these his examples that hee alleadgeth And first for Semiramis
tyrants such wilfull and vnskilful rulers such childish and effeminate persons of all theÌ„ infidels heauy plagues curses and scourges both to Gods people and to all the romaine Monarchie were the supreme gouernors why shoulde it not take place when the supreme gouernors are not Women or children in such vitious senses but onely in nature without all these vices and all other infirmities sufficiently prouided for and supplied but if these wordes of God by the Prophet Esay are to be vnderstood literally then did God performe the same vnto them literally And then it followeth of necessity that the people of God had not onely men but children nor children onely but Women also to be their lawful princes which is the thing that Danaeus before denied If nowe againe this that was threatned héere as a token of a curse do not debarre the right and lawfulnesse of their estate what shall we say then to those where God of his surpassing might and goodnesse so prouideth for these infirmities of nature that he turneth all this dreadfull token of a curse into the comfortable féeling of a blessing for dare Danaeus make a perpetual rule of this sentence that it shall alwayes stande for a token of Gods curse vnto the people where children or Women are their Princes No he dare not But streight way correctes his former saying and sayth Howbeit that same is not perpetuall for oftentimes Kinges beeing children also as for example Solomon and Josias haue moste holily and moste happily reigned and the empire of them was enriched of God withall kinde of good thinges The same may be sayde of certain Women and of their Empire whome the Lord hath in maruellous manner blessed as appeareth out of diuerse histories Ha goe too then this is another manner of matter For recompence of our former tokens of cursing and misery heere are better effectes of happinesse and blessing in the gouernment both of Children and of women neither as a rare but as an often experience put in practise and that among the Lords people But what is this to the lawfulnesse of these parties gouernment No is In-déede as Christe saith Math. 5.45 God maketh his Sunne to arise on the euill on the good sendeth reignÄ— on the iust vniust the wicked many times prosper reigne in that which the worlde estéemeth happines But when as Danaeus so placeth it héeré that holines goeth before happinesse commeth after when their Empire is enriched of God with al kind of good things with the spiritual riches of Gods kingdome if al this may truly be said of childrens gouerment and the same may be sayde also of womens gouernement doth not this importe that their gouernment must néedes be lawfull And as for childrens gouernement these two here by Danaeus alleaged are notable examples For God himselfe giuing him his name appointed Salomon both before his brethren that were his elders who otherwise by nature should haue had the kingdome before him but that God beyonde all their expectations and aspiring aduaunced him vnto it when he was but about 17. yeares of age and did God all this and was it not lawefull And as for Iosias he was but 8. yeares old when he began to reign And yet was his raigne in that age so acceptable to God that he was prophecied vpon by name almost 200. yeare before he was borne 1. Reg. 13. ver 2. And Ioas was yet younger thaÌ„ was Iosias who was worst in his old yeares wheÌ„ he ought to haue béene best and best when hee was young and is therefore commended to do that which was good in the sight of the Lorde all his time while Ioiada the priest did teach him 2. Reg. 12. ver 2. Azaria began his raigne at 16. yeares of age 2. Reg. 15. ver 2. and is also commended to haue done vprightly in the sight of the Lord. Which is vnderstood only of his younger yeares Manasses was 12. yeares old when he began to raigne 2. Reg. 21. ver 1. who though he did euill in the sight of the Lord yet was his raigne as lawefull as the others Now as Danaeus confesseth that the same may be sayde of some women and of their gouernement which is inough to conclude all the matter for we desire no more to be graunted but euen thus much and what more can be sayde of the gouernement of men For who can iustifie all mens gouernement either that they holde the same by right or rightly administer that they came rightly by Yea least we should take this that he sayth of some women to be of some such for whom he might pretend exception of example as that they had some speciall calling as Debora although we haue heard of other also in the scripture and that in commendation of whom we can alleage no such speciall calling but that might well be drawen to an example of our owne times and state and so do his wordes also importe that this some may bee sayde as spoken of some women of this age when not only he sayth as appeareth by diuerse histories as we shall after warde God willing sée how the state of Christendome is not vnfurnished of manie examples neuerthelesse for the more manifest profe hereof he beginneth with our state in Englande as an honorable and present testimonie of the same saying Verily of thâ— most renowmed Queene of England Elizabeth which now most happily reygneth it may be sayde that the whole compasse of the worlde hath seene nothing at any â—ime more happie or more to be wished for than is her reigne The more we consider this testimonie of Danaeus of the which both our selues especially and other forrain regions not a little finde the profe and féele the coÌ„fort the more are we all bounde to glorifie almightie God and to thinke speak well of her Ma. gouernmeÌ„t not only to be lawful but also most necessarie expedient for Gods Church And to pray to God to blesse her Maiesty more more and to defend her and vs by her to whom he hath giuen in these troublesome and daungerous dayes so happie a reigne ouer his people a gouernmeÌ„t so much to be wished after And the more are we also bound both to loue honour her and to obey her gouernment in her lawes And this beeing true which Danaeus here confesseth then how vnthankfully yea how vntruly doe our Brethren report to the world that the state of the Church of England is a disordred deformed corrupt estate As we haue heard their hard spéeches besides other that write a great deale harder Howe doe these here agrée with Danaeus If her Maiestie reigneth most happily and that in all these foresayd happie thinges how reigneth she not lawfully And how vnlawfully then yea how vnhappily doe our Brethren oppose themselues against her so happie reigne I graunt they doe it not
examination and determining of al matters pertayning to discipline and gouernement of that congregation The premisses inferred not this conclusion S. Paule speaketh not at all in those places of euerie Church and congregation nor howe many offices ought to be in euerie of them nor of any consistorie or Seniorie at all of Elders or Gouernors in them nor of the hearing examination determining of all matters pertayning to discipline and gouernement of that congregation nor who or how many of them ought to do these things nor of any certaine perpetuall and ordinarie platforme of officers or offices to the whole Churche or to euerie particular Churche and congregation None of all these pointes are here either plainely declared or inclusiuely insinuated by S. Paule and yet sée how our Brethren when they are once growne to be bolde to affimre one point out of Gods word for these officers more than the worde of God leadeth them vnto dare from one point procéeding to another waxe bolder and bolder in the ende so bolde not nowe only to affirme plainely all these things But to make a flat and plaine conclusion on them and that a necessarie that therefore there ought to be in euery Church a Consistorie or Signorie of Elders or Gouernors which ought to haue the hearing examination and determining of all matters pertaining to discipline and gouernment of that congregation and then indéede farewell not only our former questions of womens gouernement but of all Princes gouernement women or men in any of their dominions For here is not onely mentioned discipline but also gouernement and not in Ecclesiasticall matters only but in all matters pertayning to the gouernement of that congregation and not onely the hearing and examination of all matters but also the determining of them all And all this not to be done in some but in euerie Church and in euerie congregation in the Realme yea in the whole worlde And all this to be done not by any officers of the Prince but by a Consistorie or Segnorie of Elders or Gouernours chosen among themselues not any officers of the Prince being so muche as mentioned among them no nor now when it commeth to the conclusion eyther Pastor or Bishop is ioyned with them So that both the Pastor and the Bishop is now so farre remooued from hauing any authoritie of gouernemnt in the Church separated from others by him selfe that he may kéepe it by him selfe haue he any for with them in conclusion hee getteh none they will haue all separately by themselues Are not these matters trowe wée in this Learned Discourse of our Brethren properly concluded and to the great beautifying of Gods Church and to the quiet establishment of this Realme O Brethren Brethren it is more than high time to looke to such a Segnorie the verye péeping out of whose heades and the first appearing in the Discoursing of them shall beginne his course on this course fashion and vnder pretence of putting by the Bishoppe and of ioyning with the Pastor shall so exclude the Princes established authoritie and sette vp such a straunge newe gouernement among them-selues and that in euerie particular Congregation that is in euerie parish Church both with vs in Englande and throughout all Christendome But nowe to mittigate all this least it might growe into shrewde suspition of most daungerous troubles innouations and confusions of all Realmes and states by giuing too great authoritie to the Segnories of these Congregationall Elders and Gouernours Our Brethren adioyne heereunto with great circumspection certaine cautions of moderation Which authority of theirs say they neuerthelesse ought to be moderated that their iudgement may be rightly accounted the iudgement of the holy Church I thinke they would say of the whole Church But the terme holie is well-inough For verily if the Churche be not the holier this Segnorie might bréede a mysterie of great mischiefe and vnholinesse except their iudgement in choosing and the authoritie of those that be chosen shall the better be moderated Let vs therefore marke our Bretherens moderating of these Gouernours to bridle and represse all these inconueniences Which thing consisteth in these two points First that the Elders be elected and chosen by consent of the whole Congregation men of godlinesse and wisedome in whom the whole Church reposeth such confidence that they committe vnto them their authority in hearing and determining such matters as without horrible confusion they cannot performe themselues I looked here for the moderating of these Elders that their authoritie should haue béen so restrayned or limited that either they should not deale in all matter of gouernement or not proceede ouer farre therein But our Brethren talke of no such moderating of them Their moderation consisteth in two pointes whereof the first is for their election that the Elders be elected and chosen by the consent of the whole congregation What And shall neither Prince Magistrate Bishop Pastor nor any officer ciuill or Eccl. haue any stroake ouer and aboue the whole multitude of the congregation in the election of them which shall deale in all matters of gouernment This first point is a point as daungerous as any of the residue And how shall the whole congregation giue their consent in the electing of them Shall they doe it by some other chosen persons among them that shall giue their consent for them And then who shall choose them that shall chose those that shall choose these Elders chosen for them Or shall euery person of the whole congregation by himselfe or all of them together on a huddle choose them And what if they cannot consent vpon them Shall the halfe or greater parte goe for the whole when the other halfe or the lesser part of the whole congregation dissenteth from the election And how then will they chose suche men of godlinesse and wisedome as they imagine And what also if the greater part thēselues of the congregation want wisedome to make such choise of them Or affection of loue hate feare hope c. ouercome their wisedome As we sée it doth oftentimes not only in fewe but in multitudes And the greatest parte hath not alwayes the greatest wisedome nor greatest godlinesse Whereupon ariseth the common saying maior pars vincit meliorē the greatest part ouercomes the better And our greater part must be accounted for the whole or else no choise at all will bée made among them And where then shall our men of wisedome and godlinesse by the consent of the whole congregation be elected and chosen Well say they yet they shall be men of such wisedome and godlines as in whome the whole Churche reposeth such confidence that they committe vnto them their authoritie in hearing and determining such matters as without horrible confusion they can not performe themselues And can they not giue their cōsent to the hearing determining such matters without not only confusion
helpe bare headed and there is place where she hath no lesse oportunitie to speake than in an other place to hold her peace And also there is nothing that letteth him to pray which standeth who being let by disease is not able to boowe his knees To conclude it is better in good time to burie the dead than where there wanteth a winding sheete or where there are not some to carrie foorth the corpse to tarrie till it putrifie aboue ground Howbeit there is neuerthelesse in these things that to be done or to be taken heed of that the custome of the region the ordinances yea finally humanitie it selfe and the rule of modestie shall suggest wherein if by vnskilfulnesse or forgetfulnesse any thing be done amisse no crime is committed but if it be done of contempt it is a contumacie or prowde stubbornesse not to be allowed In lyke manner the dayes themselues what they should be and the houres what manner building of the places which Psalmes what day should be soong it maketh no matter And yet it is meete that there be certayne dayes and houres standing and a fitte place to receiue them all if there be any consideration had of peace keeping For of how many brawles would the confusion of those things be the seed if that according as euery bodie liked it were lawfull to change those things that perteyned to the common state sith that it will neuer come to passe that one thing would neuer please them all if matters as though they were layd foorth in the middest among them were left at euerie ones choyse but if any bodie grumble hereat and would heere be more wise than he ought to be let him see to it with what reason he may approue vnto the Lord his way wardnesse Neuerthelesse this saying of Paule ought to satisfy vs that we haue not a custome of contending nor the Churches of God Thus modestlie and with great grauitie writeth Caluine of these Ecclesiasticall Ceremonies and constitutions wherein although it were but of a linnâ—n kerchiefe on a womans head yet for publike order sake he would not haue it contemned though vpon occasion or necessitie it were omitted so farre off was Caluine from this contemptuous likening of these smallest Ceremonies in the Church to the sucking of the dugge to the wearing of biggins and to the carrying of rattles and other childish bables or to the scoffing at the vniformitie of them as though we would feede old men and sucking infants all with one kinde of meate or as though we would cloath all ages in a roabe of one assize for notwithstanding as Caluine sayth they be but outward rudiments to help and strengthen our humane infirmitie whereof some being of riper age in Christ than other we all of vs haue no need of them yet saith Caluine we all of vs do vse them why so but that both bycause saith he we are mutually bound to cherish charity amongst vs one to another and bycause it is not lawfull for euery body to change those things that apperteyne to the common state but that they must be onely changed or taken away by the same authoritie that did make them and as they are not lawfull to euery person no more are they lawfull to euery particular Church to change them bycause they reach higher euen to the common state of the whole region And besides if it should be suffered that euery priuate person and by the same reason euery priuate congregation might change the Churches publike constitutions since that tot capita tot sensus no one constitution would euer please all persons this would become the verie seede as Caluine calleth it of all brawles and confusion and in the end the cleane ouerthrowe of the Church These principles of Caluine being well weighed let now the indifferent reader iudge how truly our Brethren say of these ceremoniall constitutions wherein we of long time in England haue beene caried away with an vntrue principle that vniformitie must be in all places and things alike If this be an vntrue principle in these matters then hath Caluine himselfe helped to carry vs away But I am afrayd our Brethren for all their learning are alittle too much carried away with affection that maketh them both in this matter and in many other mistake vntrue for true and true for vntrue principles But let vs now sée our Brethrens reason that they alleage against vniformitie in these ceremoniall constitutions Our land is not yet wholy conuerted to Christ so great hath beene our negligence hitherto therefore there can not be such an vniformitie of orders in all places as shall be profitable for all This argument although we haue séene it alreadie sufficiently confuted by Caluine let vs yet consider it somewhat further in the example euen of these constitutions made by the Apostles and Elders Actes 15. so often alleaged by our Brethren for if this argument be good then could not they haue made as they did those Ceremoniall constitutions and commanded the charge of kéeping them for any time generally and with like vniformitie of all the Churches to whome they wrote their letter and decrée saying verse 23.28 and 29. the Apostles the Elders and the Brethren vnto the Brethren that are of the Gentiles in Antiochia and in Syria and in Cilicia c. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to vs to lay no more burthen vpon you than these necessary things that is that ye absteyne from things offered to idoles and bloud and that which is strangled and from fornication from which if ye keepe your selues ye shall do well c. Were none of all those Christians in the Churches to whom they wrote these decrées wholy conuerted to Christ or were all the christians in all those churches wholy conuerted or conuerted all alike and yet the decrée was generally to be vniformely kept of all those churches Yea what shall we say to the Church of Ierusalem it selfe where this decrée was made were they all wholy conuerted to Christ no hypocrites nor yet weake brethren among them did not euen the Elders of Ierusalem themselues bewray the great weakenesse of their multitude when as afterwards Actes 21. S. Paule came to Ierusalem did they not say to Paule vers 20. thou seest Brother how many thousand Iewes there be which beleeue and they all are earnest followers of the lawe c. and for these weake brethrens sakes they counceled S. Paule to purifie himselfe being a Iewe according to the ceremonies of the Iewes and although they knew the christian libertie yet would they haue S. Paule to auoyde the offensiue opinion that the multitude of the christian Iewes had conceyued of him to conforme himselfe vnto theyr weakenesse And what shall we say to the other Churches of the Gentiles were all the Christians in the Church of Corinthus wholy conuerted to Christ and yet notwithstanding S. Paule ceasseth
not to prescribe vnto them all alike some ceremoniall constitutions neyther was the difference of their strengths or weakenesse in their conuersion to Christ any breach or let to the vniformitie of their obseruing the same But by this reason of our brethren there could be no vniformitie of ceremonies not only then with them or now with vs in all places of the Church and land of England but in no place in all the whole world for where is the whole land or church wholy conuerted to Christ if they say that by these words not wholy conuerted they meane not all nor the greatest part but that some be not conuerted to Christ then they confute their owne reason in that the weakenesse of the lesser part ought to be no preiudice to the making of vniforme ceremonies vnto the greatest part for the law considereth rather the vniuersall multitude than euery particular party and so confessing that our land God be praysed for it is for the greatest part conuerted though not wholy conuerted in respect of euery person yet as the greatest part is commonly called by the name of the whole it may be well said also to be wholy conuerted But what meane they hereby that our land is not yet wholy coÌ„uerted to Christ they haue coÌ„fessed in their preface vnto this learned discourse that for the substaÌ„ce of religion it is now publikely mainteined for our true holy faith If any be not yet coÌ„uerted vnto the whole truth thereof how doth not this argumeÌ„t make the more for vniformity in these ceremoniall constit were it the easlier to win theÌ„ if by any meanes they may be woon by kéeping an vnforme order in those ceremoniall constitutions that are neyther ill of themselues and are but ordeyned to these good ends that order and comelinesse be reteyned shall we rather winne and conuert them to Christ both by reiecting all vniformitie in those ceremoniall constitutions that both they and we agrée vpon to be good and lawfull and also by reiecting all vniformitie in any other that may be deuised Yea by this their rule we should kéepe no vniformitie in any of those ceremoniall constitutions that they their selues set foorth vnto vs or is it lawfull for them to presse their Ceremonies vpon vs to be obserued with vniformitie and is it not more lawfull for vs hauing the law with vs to do the like to them so long as we vrge none nor otherwise than seruing to order and to comelinesse if ours séeme not so to them no more do theirs séeme so to vs and we hope and thanke God that we are also euen the greatest part and therefore may be called the whole that are we trust wholy conuerted to Christ wholie I meane for substance of Religion though in measure of faith and conuersation of life there is none of vs all nor yet of our Brethren so wholy conuerted but that the best of vs all come short and oftentimes diuert from Christ and must still be fayne to cry to Christ Conuerte me domine conuertar Conuert me Lord and I shall be wholy conuerted But will vniformitie in those Ceremonies that are giuen to helpe and strengthen our weakenesse hinder our Conuersion vnto Christ yea rather how will they not greatly further it But now if we be not so wholy conuerted to Christ as we ought to be although I confesse negligence may be some part too great a part the cause thereof yet I feare me our Brethrens too double diligence in disturbing the concord of the Preachers and euen in this reiecting of vniformity in these ceremoniall constitutions giuing liberty not only to euery Synode of themselues but also to theÌ„selues in these their discourses without any Synode and without yea against the authority of the ciuill christian Magistrate and much more without yea against the whole state of the Church in this our laÌ„d yea giuing liberty to euery particular church and withall by these their reasons to euery priuate person according as he or she is weake or strong to admit or reiect all vniformitie to alter and innouate as they fancy all such Lawes and constitutions of ceremoniall rites orders as are by a lawfull godly Synode of the Church decréed by the authority of the ciuill christian magistrate confirmed established proclaimed to be vniuersally among vs vniformely obserued These sayings doings of our Brethren their selues haue bin if not the chiefest yet not the least cause that not onely our land is not so wholy conuerted to Christ as it might otherwise haue béene but that so many are wholy auerted froÌ„ Christ and become peruerted renegates apostataes vnto Antichrist that before these sturres betwéen our brethren vs began were very wel coÌ„ming on by little little so far as man can iudge or hope by outwarde signes might haue béene throughly wonne and wholly conuerted to Christ or might yet in the vnsearchable riches of gods mercies be reclaimed and reconuerted But firmum flat fundamentum Deus nouit qui sunt sui If they be none of Gods elected exiâ—runt e nobis non fuerunt ex nobis they went from among vs they were none of vs. But nowe to our Brethrens conclusion that they gather on these premisses Therfore it were meete that the Ouerseers and Elders of the Church shoulde come together to consider of this matter what orders were most meete for diuerse places to bring them to the obedience of Christ what for the furtherance of them that are newly come and what for the continuance and encrease of them that are verie well come on Here still the soueraigne Prince or ciuill Christian Magistrate is eyther cleane forgotten or of purpose reiected as hauing no stroake at all in these matters except they wil include the Prince in one of these termes the Ouerseers and Elders of the Church But they haue before restrayned those titles to the Pastors and to those Elders whoÌ„ they call the Gouernors and distinguishing the Prince from them they call him the ciuill Christian Magistrate But now what orders when they come together to consider of this matter can these Ouer-seers and Elders deuise that shal be most meete for diuerse places if they coÌ„sider not on this withall that if not in al places yet at the least in all those diuerse places they should be vniformely kept For to kéepe diuersitie or to kéepe them diuersely in those diuerse places what is it else than to be bounde in no places to no orders at all Will they not yet at least wise haue those orders that shal be deuised for the furderance of them that are newly come to be vniformely kept among all them that be such persons in all or diuerse places And likewise those orders that should be deuised for the continuance and encrease of them that are verie well come on to be kept also
likewise they haue before declared and thereto cited euen one of their last testimonies pag. 21. by the name of Elders the Pastors are called Act. 14.23 where Paule and Barnabas ordeyned Elders by election in euery congregation But if now that they may be able to knowe these matters of which the hauing a Pastor is an order both of comelines and aedification according to Gods word these Elders themselues must be Pastors How shal these Elders enquire when the Pastors place is void where they may finde a man meet to supply his roome when the roome is neuer voyd of Pastors so long as the assemblie of Elders doth continue If they continue not much lesse can they enquire for one nor choose him nor deserue therein the ayde of the Synod for him But be the assemblie of the Elders Pastors themselues or not can they not choose another Pastor to supplye his roome when any Pastors place is voyde among them but that they ought therein to desire the ayde of the Synode For wherein do they meane this therein but of that they declared before to enquire when the Pastors place is voyde where they may finde a man meete to supplye his roome and therein to desire the ayde of the Synode They declared before concerning the Pastors election that it was conuenient to bee done by the iudgement of the particular Synode both for better aduice in choosing a meete man and for authoritie in causing him to accept their election And ought they now to haue the Synods ayde also to helpe them to enquire when the Pastors place is voyde where they may finde a meet man to supply his roome So that when and wheresoeuer in all England a Pastors place is voyde we ought not onely forthwith to haue a Synode vppon that onely occasion except the roome shall stande voyde till some greater occasion of a Synode happen but the Synodesayde must bee craued before the newe election where they may finde a meete man and in the election it selfe their aduise also must be had in choosing a meete man and besides this their authoritie must be had in causing him that is the elected partie to accept their election and finally it is conuenient that it bee done also euen by the iudgement of the particular Synode And then this meete man after all this inquirie both of the assemblie of Elders of that particular Church and of the Synodes ayde in this enquirie being at last found out and the man by such godly aduice so chosen and by this authoritie so caused to accept their election and all this being thus authentically done and ratified by the iudgement of the particular Synode the man ought to be presented to the congregation and by them to be allowed and receiued What and must a new allowance of the congregation be had after all this assembling inquiring aduising and choosing of the gouerning Elders of that congregation Yea and aboue them after all the assembling inquiring and better aduising and choosing and authorizing and euen causing the man to accept their election and after iudgement and all of the particular Synode What shall we thinke hereon Hath the particular congregation an higher authoritie of allowing the Pastor then haue not onely the gouerning Elders whom the congregation their selues haue of confidence chosen and committed vnto them their authoritie pag. 84. but also then the whole particular Synode whose ayde therein was desired and must it now be ouerruled by the allowing or disallowing of euery particular congregation If they say they meane not that the man ought so to bee allowed and receiued of the congregation that he may also of them bee dissallowed or not receiued but that the congregation must allowe him and receiue him after all these allowances of him and authorities What and will they impose him vpon them and inforce the congregation to allowe him and receiue him Well may they be compelled to receiue him but they cannot compell them to allowe him except from teeth outward If they say they meane not to cause them to allowe him or receiue him but that they ought onely of their duetie so to doe doe they not say in plaine words of the Synodes authoritie ouer the elected partie and for authoritie in causing him to accept their electioÌ„ What imply these words but that he must accept their election be he willing or vnwilling to accept it And haue they more authoritie to cause him to accept their election than they haue to cause that particular congregation which haue committed their authoritie to the assemblie of Elders which assemblie haue desired the ayde of the Synod to accept the man whom they haue thus elected for them But they say that they ought so to doe not simply but if no man can shewe any reasonable cause to the contrary And what if no man can doe this must they thus therefore impose Pastors on them And is not this imposing one of their quarelles against the Bishops are they now themselues faine to come to imposing of Pastors on the congregations But what now if any man can alleadge any reasonable cause to the contrarie must euery reason of any one man ouer-rule al the reasons and authorities both of all the residue of the congregation and of all the gouerning Elders and of all the Synode See what a great sturre wee haue here had still must haue about the choosing of euery Pastor in that Realme all the seuerall congregation all the assemblie of Elders all the Synode of the Prouince or Shire must meete together with all this adoe and when all is done in comes any one man he alone vpon any reasonable though not necessarie cause may turne topside turuie all their doings And is this the right election and ordeyning of Pastors Yea say they this is the right election and ordeining of Pastors Yea and grounded vppon the word of God and practised by the Primitiue Church 200. yeres after Christ. This is stoutly auouched if now they can proue it But can they shew this election and ordâ—yning of Pastors in any places yea in any one place in al Gods word Well what of that It is grounded say they vpon the word of God What Are they soone grounded What meane they by grounded CaÌ„ they shewe vs any one rule or but any one example hereof in the worde of God No place that they haue yet alleadged sheweth any such election and ordeyning of Pastors What Synodes assembling inquiring aduising choosing iudging and causing of the partie elected to accept their election was there had in the electing and ordeyning Pastors by Paule and Barnabas Act. 14 Or what electing and ordeyning of Pastors was there in the Synode if we shall properly call that assemblie a Synode which was of the Apostles and Elders of Ierusalem Acts. 15 Or doth S. Paule in any of his precepts to Timothie or to Titus commaund not only an
numbers very vnfit to bee called faithfull ministers that desire the reformation of the Church of England Which haue made such deformation in the ministerie and therevppon being partly misliked of vs and partly either hauing bene punished or fearing punishment haue falne to take vpon them a great countenaunce of this our Bretherens zeale and practise that they vse to inueigh against the Bishops chalenging them for pride and tyrannie and against all the Clergie and state of Ecclesiasticall gouernment now established and these men get such great credite among many our male-contented Bretheren that I am afrayde some of them goe in the multitude and name also of these faithfull ministers that recommend vnto vs this their learned discourse Qui simulant Curios Bacchanalia viuunt But let such passe as they are worthie whome I rather lament than studie to decipher their vnworthinesse Howbeit of these our learned but missezealous Bretheren I thinke more reuerently as becommeth mée and doe not condemne them all for the multitude and number of some among them and craue that they would affoord vs the like equitie not for the defaultes of some though a multitude to condemne all and withall it selfe all the ministerie too for so wee may call the doctrine also too néere in question and the whole corps and substance of our Church This complaynt wee confesse is grieuous but the indignitie of the matter inforceth it Wee knowe that vayne excuses shall not bee wanting of necessitie c. But if necessitie compelled them to take such at the first what necessitie compelleth them to suffer them to bee such still For if they would needes admit ignorant persons to that charge yet should they haue inforced them to studie as well as to other thinges they haue inforced them vnto that in tyme they might haue growen to bee meete for their calling Which if they had done in 10.12 or 13. yeeres space a great many might haue prooued excellently well learned and able to serue in the Church with great fruite and profite and the rest according to proportion of their tyme might haue come to some mediocritie in knowledge whereas now as ignoâ—aunt and as vnfit as they were the first day so are they still for the most parte and will so continue to their liues ende if they may be suffered in ydlenesse as they haue bene hetherto After our Bretheren haue thus bitterly compared the multitude of our Pastors in euery place to Ieroboams Idolatrous Priestes they now goe about to excuse themselues of this so grieuous a complaynt and â—ithall to cut off from vs all excuses This complaynt say they we confesse is greeuous but the indignitie of the matter inforceth it It is a greeuous complaynt in deede as they confesse and an heynous both agaynst the Bishoppes and agaynst their poore Bretherâ—n ministers Neither is there any so greeuous indignitie or necessitie that inforceth them to complayne so greeuouslie and beyonde not onely the veritie of the matter but the boundes both of charitie and all modestie and that in such greeuous maner of complayning not by lowlie supplication exhibited in writing to her most excellent Maiestie or to her most honourable Councell but to published in print to all the whole Realme and that without licence to print it yea agaynst Lawe and order giuen in such behalfe so to doe and to scatter it abroade in euery parte of the whole Realme as much as they may and that with such reprochefull inuectiues and notorious sclaunders doth any thing or should any thing inforce our Bretheren to complayne in this extreame maner But now from this insufficient excuse of their so greeuous complaynt on the Bishops our Ministers they turne to the taking away from vs the refuge and mitigation of all excuses Wee knowe say they that vayne excuses shall not bee wanting of necessitie c. That that is amisse and can bee so euicted if our Bretheren will needes become so rough that it maye deserue no modest excuse nor mitigation with them wee will gladly confesse it and studie to refourme it in good order And so God bee praysed as wee may wee doe And if wee â—id not lawe would compell vs. But they knowe before hand as they say that wee will alleadge necessitie And they also before hand will reiect it as a vayne excuse For wee knowe say they that vayne excuses shall not be wanting of necessitie c. And how knowe théy before hand that wee would alleadge necessitie Doth their minde before hand misgiue that there was at the first some necessitie indeede and why might it not then be alleadged But what meane they here by adioyning this c. Doe they also knowe before hand that we haue some other excuses if necessitie would not be admitted And would they not alleadge them too but suppresse them or without all regarde or hearing or knowing of them shake them off before hand as vayne excuses to But not to stand vppon et-ceteraes let vs see what they say to necessitie And yet they haue cast off that also before hand as a vayne excuse And indeede if they meane it that wee should alleaâ—â—e that necessitie draue our Bishop to ordeyne and vs allow such persons of whom they sayd before IeroboaÌ„ neuer made worse then as he had no necessitie that did or ought to haue driuen him to make suche Priestes so wee could not alleadge anâ— such necessitie but that it should bee a very vayne excuse to choose and ordeyne such not vayne onely but most vyle persons But wee are farre God bee praysed both from excusing such false and wicked Pastors or rather no Pastors at all or from excusing any that haue made such as they knewe or suspected to bee either an euill person in life or altogether vnfitte in knowledge for the ministerie Notwithstanding if wee shall better consider of the matter how for the neede and want of learned Preachers especially at that first tyme when the Popish pastors were remooued and the learned Preachers of the Gospell were the most of them destroyed saue a small remaynder and fewe of any towardnesse in learning indeuoured themselues vnto the Ministerie but rather to other professions and since that tyme also seeing on the one side so many hunting and prowlling after those the Clergies liuinges or the fleecing of them which for their better maintenaunce in learning and hospitalitie they were endowed withall and how the Clergie were continually enuyed pinched and pulled at and on the other side seeing the innouations and garboyles of our Bretheren themselues in the Clergie to make odious to the people both the Pastors and also all the Prelates of the Realme and the peoples vnthankfulnesse and their owne vncerteyntie whereby the learned sort were the more discouraged and their friendes would hardly permit them for these and other reasons to enter into this function of the ministerie so difficult in it selfe so
which before they had receaued â—s wée haue heard Caluines prescription Epist. 373. and so continued still in the office or ministery thus repurged And therefore since the masse was taken away and all â—he other corruptions of the Ministerie that were vsed in the popish priesthood an other Ministration appointed as is sette downe in our booke of publike prayer by the godly lawes of the realme and Church of England established which was done so soone as conueniently it could be done forthwith after her Maiesties moste happy entrance into this kingdome this is not truly sayd that the popish priesthood being the greatest blasphemie that euer was was alowed for a lawfull Ministerie vntill by the godly meaning of the sayd parliament Anno. 13. some brande-marke of shame was sette vppon it As though the sacrificing Priesthoode had continued with allowance therof for thirteene yere together of the Queenes Maiesties raigne which was as long a time as before they mencioned for the inforcing of the ministers to studie Yea by this rule it continueth still though disallowed or rather as they say but noted onely with a brand-marke of shame set vpon it So that this is not the taking of it awaye but the continuing of it with more shame to the parliament and to all the states of the Realmâ— that haue marked it with a brand-marke of shame and yet shame not to continue it though we disallow it And this withall is but a shamefull and vnreuerent terme that here they vse in calling eyther the statute or the booke of articles agreed vppon by all the clergie of the Churche of England and approued in the high courte of parliament by al the states of the realme and by the statute commaunded to be read a brand-marke of shame But our brethren to mittigate the matter say the parliament had a godly meaning in making that statute for Priestes that had bin made in the tyme of Popery to professe their consent to the true doctrine agreed vpon in the booke of articles by their publike reading of the same booke in their benefices Yea verily the parliament had therein a very godly meaning and it was also as godly an act â—s meaning of the parliament But saye they how pitifullye that authority was abused which by the same statute was committed to the Bishops in allowing of Priestes that came to doe their pennance by negligence of the Bishops and bribery of their officers the country cryeth out of it and the state of the Church is little amended by it There is no such crying out in the country as are these outcries of our brethren If it be but little amended yet little is somewhat But if it bee not greate that is not to be unputed to the good lawe but to the euill and indirect accidents For it was not pitifull that that authority was committed to the Bishops in allowing of Priestes that came not as our brethren here say to doe their pennance or to haue a brand-marke of shame set vpon them but the statute it selfe more reuerently and rightly setteth downe the cause and order of their act saying That the Churches of the Queenes Maiesties dominions maye bee serued with Pastors of sound religion be it enacted by the authority of this present Parliament that euerye person vnder the degree of a Byshop which doth or shall pretende to be a priest or Minister of gods holy worde and Sacramentes by reason of anye other fourme of institution consecration or ordeyning than the forme set foorth by Parliament in the tyme of the late King of most worthye memorye King Edwarde the sixte or now vsed in the raigne of our moste gratious Soueraigne Ladye before the feaste of the Natiuitie nexte following shall in the presence of the Bishop or gardian of the spiritualties of some one diocoese where he hath or shall haue ecclesiasticall liuing declare his assent and subscribe to all the articles of religion which onely concerne the confession of the true Christian Faith and the doctrine of the SacrameÌ„ts comprised in a booke imprinted intituled Articles wherupoÌ„ it was agreed by the Archbish. Bish. of both prouinces the whole Clergy in the Conuocation holden at London in the yeare of our lorâ— God 1562. According to the computation of the Church of england for the auoyding of the diuersities of opinions and for the establishing of consent touching true Religion put forth by the Queenes Authoritye And shall bring from suche B. or gardian of Spiritualties in wryting vnder his Seale authentike and testimoniall of such assent subscription openly on some Sonday in the time of publike seruice afore noone in euery church wher by reasoÌ„ of any Ecc liuing he ought to atteÌ„d reade both the said Testimoniall the said articles vpon paine that euery such persoÌ„ which shal not before the said feast do as is aboue appointed shall be ipso facto depriued al his Eccl. promotions shal be voyd as if he then were naturally dead These are the very words of the statute Wherein what could they better haue prouided than whatsoeuer they should ordeyne for the bringing of those persons to the more sure confession and consent of sound Religion firste to come before the Bishoppe or the Gardian of the â—pirituall iurisdiction in the Bishops vacancie in some one Diocoese where hee had any ecclesiasticall promotion or liuing and there before him declare his consent and also subscribe to all the articles of religion which onelye concerne the confession of the true Christian Faith c. Before whom should he haue done this if he should doe it authentically than before the Bishop or the bishops gardian being the publike officers that haue competent authority ouer him in those matters which withall confuteth our brethrens equall authority of all Pastors If the bishops were negligent or the officers take bribes this was the bishops the officers fault not any default in the lawes Wise men should not doe like WilliaÌ„ Summer strike one for another But if the bishops negligence and the bribery of the officers be so great that the countrye cryeth out of it and the state of the Church is little amended it is then so much the easier to be knowne who are the offenders that so pitifâ—lly abused this godly meaning of the statute that authority committed to them and not they to be thus disorderly cried out vpon and that in this vncharitable maner by inuectiue libelles vnder the tytle of learned discourses to be thus discoursed vpon with taunts slaunders defamed to all the worlde so much as lyes in them If the matter be little amended this is not to amend it more but to make it worse for this is naught worth but to norishe malice suspitioÌ„ sclaunder yet the fault not knowne much lesse ameÌ„ded Let the negligence briberies with true desire of reformation as the title of this learned discourse pretendeth
and aduise of them that be learned in those matters Neither any good reason nor any ordinaunce of God plaine or not playne in the Scriptures willeth any person taking such aduise leaste of all willeth the Prince on that aduise giuen or taken to thinke that because hee shoulde do nothing without their aduise that he can do nothing without their authority Neither is there any reason or ordinaunce of God in the Scriptures that any which are but aduisers to the prince shoulde fall from aduising him so to incroche vpon him And if I were worthy to aduise princes I would aduise them to take good aduisement howe they aduised themselues by such aduisers and as I am thus aduised mee thinketh it reason And if all princes by heathen wise mens iudgements are so rulers that they are seruantes of the Lawes and of the common wealth why shoulde it bee accounted for any dishonour vnto princes to bee obedient to the Lawes of God their Father and to serue to the commoditie of the Church their Mother It is a greater honour to bee the Sonne of God and the Childe of the Church than to bee a Monarke of all the earth All princes I graunt are such seruauntes of the common wealth not onely by Heathen wise mens iudgementes hut also by all Christian wise mens iudgements too that neuerthelesse their supreme authority in gouerning of the common wealth is not one whit diminished by that seruice And as for their seruice to the Lawes which Lawes either they haue made them selues or were made Lawes before they were made rulers serueth I graunt also to the maintenaunce of those Lawes and to the punishment of the impugners of them howbeit this hindreth not but that princes haue another ruling and not seruing seruice or as wee may well terme it a seruing rule and gouernment besides the conseruing of the Lawes euen to make Lawes as our Brethren haue before confessed And as Saint Augustine excellently well doth say in his 48. epistle ad Vincentium And in his 50. Epistle ad Bonifacium as we haue séene at large before And in his fift Booke De ciuit Dei cap. 24. Hee reckoneth this seruice among the princes cheefest vertues hee sayth that they make their power which they haue to bee a seruaunt vnto the Maiestie of God moste largely to spreade abroad his seruice And of this seruice as Eusebius reporteth in the seconde Booke of Constantines life doth Constantine glory saying I reclaymed mankinde beeing instructed by my seruice or ministery to the religion of the holye Lawe and I caused that the moste blessed fayth shoulde more and more growe vnder a better ruler For I woulde not be vnthankfull especially to neglect my principall seruice which is the thankes that I owe euen of duetie Sith therefore the princes seruice is so high and principall a seruice stretching to the making of Eccl. Lawes and to all these matters which seruice as Saint Augustine sayth Epistola 50. None can doe but princes This seruice is no debarre but rather an aduauncement and prerogatiue of the princes supreme authority in these matters Wee doe not therefore accounte it anie dishonour vnto princes to bee obedient to the Lawes of GOD the Father and serue to the commoditie of the Church their Mother It is rather the greatest honour that in this Worlde and in their royall estate they canne attaine vnto Neyther can any of their subiects Clergie or other compare with them in the supreme degree of that authoritie that onelye Christian princes haue heerein But rather our Brethren woulde abase this authoritie with telling princes they must account no dishonour to obeye the lawes of GOD their Father and serue to the commoditie of the Churche their Mother what lawes of God the Father haue they as yet alleaged either for this matter or for any of their tetrarches that inferre anye of these new Lawes which they all without and besides the authoritie of a prince woulde presse both vpon the prince and vs Or what one thing that beeing better considered serueth to the commoditie of the Churche their and our Mother but rather to the greate disquieting of her in the calme harbour God bee thanked heere in Englande and to the discrediting of her name to all other Churches and peoples rounde about vs and to the great hazarde of her estate amongst vs And is this the way to serue her commoditie If not rather to serue their owne turnes and humors both to the great dishonour of God our father and to the no little damage of the Church our mother besides the dishonour and disobedience of our so gratious Prince with the trouble and endaungering of all the whole Realme But let our Brethren take good héede that they abuse not Princes thus vnder these high titles of God their Father and of the Churche their mother for euen with these termes did the Papistes deceaue Princes and all the world When they sought their owne honour or profite then they alwayes pretended the honouring of God their father and seruing the commoditie of the Church their mother in whose names as Gods and the Churches deputies they tooke on them selues to be honored and their owne commoditie serued both of all Princes and of all people as much if not much more than eyther their father or their mother It is a greater honor say they to be the sonne of God and the child of the Church than to be a Monarke of all the earth And so it is indeede who denieth it and this is also as one of the papists blearing the eyes of princes But any man woman or child neuer so pore or priuate may by the grace of God be so well ynough though he haue no publike auth at all But can not a man be a Monarch though not of al the earth but in his owne dominions be also the Sonne of God and child of the Church and yet with all in his owne Dominions be the supreme gouernor ouer all persons in all matters and causes eccl so wel as temporall Of this honourable subiection to God and his Church Esay prophesieth Chapter 49.23 Kings shall be thy nourssing Fathers and Queenes shall bee thy Nourses They shall worship thee with their faces towards the earth and licke the dust of thy feete and thou shalt knowe that I am the Lorde The Prophet meaneth that Kinges and Queenes shall be so carefull for the preseruation of the Churche that they shall thinke no seruice too base for them so they maye profite the Churche of Christe withall Vnto this honorable subiection the holie ghost exhorteth Princes in the second Psalme after that they haue tried that they preuayle nothing in striuing against the kingdome of Christe Bee nowe therefore wise O yee Kinges bee learned that iudge the earth serue the Lorde with feare and reioyce to him with trembling declaring that it is a ioyfull
also to be punished in body by the ciuil magistrate we say that the prince hath a part that a principal part euen in the very making of all these eccl lawes orders or decrees in that he maketh theÌ„ by his royall conseÌ„t to be eccl lawes orders decrees For till the princes royall assent ratifie them if there be a christian Prince so to do they be but determinatioÌ„s what should or may bee done and are indéede rather deliberations and aduisements than that they haue the vigor force of decrees and lawes So that the Prince tarryeth not as they say till the Clergy haue fully decreed it for a lawe afterward by the Ministery of their preaching they let him vnderstand what decrees and lawes they haue made then must he obserue them and binde his people vnto them punish those that offend against them but we say that they deuise them he enacteth them They say they should be he saith they shall be and so he maketh the Eccl. lawes with their aduices This is the very point that if they could they should or rather should not but woulde infringe For in this chiefely consisteth the Princes supreme authority in Eccl. matters that we defend and they thus begin to call in question But euen their owne similitude doth here beate them that they say in this respect the church most obediently submitteth her selfe vnto the Prince as a child to his nurse For if the Church doth so submit her selfe to the Prince then as the nursse doth not onely procure peace quietnes to the child in the things that are necessary for him but doth giue him suck also and nourisheth him with milke from her owne brests besides other things that she prouideth and not onely dresseth trimmeth vp the childe but also appointeth orders rules to others in the house how the child should be kept tended so the Prince in all these things not onely for quietnes safety of the church nor for ciuill honesty onely conuersation of life but also in feeding the Church with the milke of Gods word as euen the very interlineall glosse of the Papists theÌ„selues cannot shun but confes that interpretation it is so forcible against them how is this the feeding them with this milk from the Princes brests since they their selues do not Preach the word but by that authority that is in the Prince to set forth Eccl. lawes for the feeding of the people with gods word by all such other meanes besides preaching teaching ministery of the Sacraments as is competent to their princely estate that is to say by making Eccl. lawes orders decrees for the norishing and gouerning of the Church Though still in respecte the Princes are but particular persons they againe are but as the children the Pastors their nurses God their father the Church their mother And thus we graunt as mutuall meanes instruments therunto they haue on all parts this authority giuen them of god that as our brethreÌ„ say both Prince and people may honor God in this life and after this life reigne with christ euerlastingly And this is all that our Bre. say of the supreme authority of Christian Princes in Ecclesiasticall matters Thus haue wee briefely set foorth a forme of reformation touching matters Eccl. as we are throughly perswaded agreeable to the word of God as we are able to proue consenting with the example of the primitiue church building onely vpon the most sure foundation of the canonicall scriptures but intending more at large if occasion shall serue hereafter to set forth the practise consent of the godly fathers in their actes Counsels writings following the same rule and interpretation of the scripture that we haue done And thus also haue we fully throughly heard what our bre briefly or largely haue set foorth in all this their learned discourse of Eccl. gouernment for the fourme of reformation touching Ecclesiasticall matters Here therefore hauing now finished their whole discourse which in the front thereof they haue intituled A briefe and playne declaration conteyning the desires of all those faithfull Ministers that haue and doe seeke for the reformation of the Church of England They now enter into the Epilogue or small per-oration for the knitting vp of all the matters that in this learned discourse haue bene layd downe And first whereas the more to perswade the reader to beléeue them they say this forme that they haue here set forth is as they are throughly perswaded agreeable to the word of God I aunswer this is not materiall what they are or are not throughly perswaded to bee agreeable to the word of God For though in Christ we wish as wel to them as they to vs yet depende wee no more on their perswasions to themselues than they on ours to vs. But if they could haue brought or can bring any sufficient and cléere profe of matter out of the worde of GOD indeede that might perswade vs throughly thereunto If they could doe that it were very materiall and by the grace of God wee should not gaynsay it contrary to our consciences but yéeld on all hands thereunto and bee as throughly perswaded as there are But this must bee with better and firmer prooues of Gods worde than either our Bre. haue yet alledged or any other that euer I read agreeable or inclinable to their opinion For setting aside all such perswasions of men this perswasion must bee wrought with pure matter For till then they can neuer throughly perswade other to be perswaded as they bee if they their selues be indeed as they say they are throughly perswaded And although I may be somewhat easily perswaded that they are somewhat perswaded that this their forme is agreeable to Gods word yet as yet I can neither be throughly perswaded that they their selues are throughly so perswaded of this forme nor that this forme of this learned discourse let the learning in eche mans perswasion goe as it shall is either the discourse declaration or desires of all those faithfull Ministers that haue and doe seeke for the discipline and reformation of the Church of England For first they are not I think perswaded that all or any one of our Bishops and a great many if not all or the most part of vs are so perswaded either throughly or in parte or at all If they shall vtterly herein reiect all our Bishops and all vs besides onely themselues as no faithfull ministers that were too arrogant a parte in them selues and too iniurious and coÌ„tumelious to all the Ministers in the Church of England that are not throughly perswaded as they say they bee Yea this contumelie and iniurie would inâ—lude many not onely of their owne fauourers that yet are not perswaded at all in many things conteyned in this learned discourse but vtterly mislike them and will perhaps bee lesse and lesse