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A19164 The attestation of the most excellent, and most illustrious lord, Don Carlos Coloma, embassadour extraordinary for Spayne. Of the declaration made vnto him, by the lay Catholikes of England concerning the authority challenged ouer them, by the Right Reuerend Lord Bishop of Chalcedon. With The answere of a Catholike lay gentleman, to the iudgment of a deuine, vpon the letter of the lay Catholikes, to the sayd Lord Bishop of Chalcedon. Coloma, Carlos, 1573-1637.; Baltimore, George Calvert, Baron, 1580?-1632. Answere of a Catholike lay gentleman to the judgement of a devine. aut 1631 (1631) STC 5576; ESTC S117323 60,660 174

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of the questions in controuersy between vs my Lord Bishop of Chalcedon touching the pretended Authority and iurisdiction chalenged by his Lordship ouer vs which that it might the more plainly appeare we iudged it not only expedient but also necessary to declare our minds by this way course that we haue taken THE ATTESTATION I IOHN Mallery Gentleman do witnes and testify that I was present at London in the House of the most Excellent most Illustrious Lord Don Carlos Coloma extraordinary Embassadour for the King of Spaine the 3. day of March 1631. stylo nouo when as sundry Catholike Noblemen and others of quality there present did produce written in latin the Declaration Reasons and Letter heere aboue set downe All which being distinctly pronounced in presence of the forsayd Embassadour and all and euery thing therein expressed for as much as belongeth to the Cōtrouersy concerning the pretēded Authority of the Right Reuerēd Lord Bishop of Chalcedon ouer the Lay Catholikes of England the forsayd Gentlemen and Noblemen declaredfully and perfectly to conteyne the sense and meaning not only of themselues there present but in effect of all others whome they knew and namely of many Earles Vicounts Barons other men of Quality whome they named vnto the sayd Embassadour And they declared themselues to notify vnto him the mynd and sense of them all to be fully expressed in the sayd Declaration Reasōs Letter and that they had receaued full power Authority from them so to do And the Embassadour himselfe did then openly professe to haue vnderstood the same things from many of those Lay Catholikes whome they had named nor did he doubt at all of the truth of the whole matter which he tooke vpon him as they requested to make publicke Iohn Mallery THE aboue named Iohn Mallery Gentleman of the English Nation appearing personally before the Maior Magistrates and Griffiers of the Citty and Territory of Saint Winocks-Berge in the West-County of Flanders did vpon Oath affirme the things aforesayd and in testimony thereof in our presence subscribed signed the same In Witnes whereof we appointed the Seale vsed in Causes of our forsayd Citty and Territory to be set vnto this present Writing and to be subscribed by the Griffier our Notary This 15. day of March 1631. Locus ✚ Sigilli Joannes Hardunius THE ATTESTATION Of the most Excellent and most Illustrious Lord Don Carlos Coloma D. Carlos Coloma Knight of the Military Order of S. Iames Commendador of Montyelo Ossa of the Counsell of State and Warre to his Sacred Catholike Maiesty Captaine Generall of his Armyes in the Low Countreys c. We do witnesse and testify whilst of late we resided as Embassadour Extraordinary in the Court of the Renowned King of Great Brittaine the forsaid Declaration to haue byn exhibited vnto vs in our House at Londō the 3. day of March of this present yeare 1631. by many lay Catholikes of chiefe rāke in their Countrey and the same to haue byn approued and confirmed by diuers English Noblemen by word of mouth as well in their owne as in the Name of others in which respect we ratify the Attestation of M. Iohn Mallery an English Gentleman added vnto the end of the said Declaratiō being in like māner also authentically confirmed by the Magistrate of S. Winocks-Berge in witnesse of the truth of all and euery the premises as they were done we haue heereunto put our hand and seale Giuen at Bruxells the 2. day of April in the yeare of our Lord 1631. Don Carlos Coloma Locus ✚ Sigilli By Command of my most Excellent Lord. Fran. Schelen Printed at Bruxells by the widdow of Hubert Antony sworne Printer at the signe of the Golden Eagle neere to the Pallace M. DC XXXI THE ANSVVERE OF A CATHOLIKE LAY GENTLEMAN To the Iudgement of a Deuine vpon the Letter of the Lay Catholikes to my Lord Bishop of Chalcedon By L. B. Anno M. DC XXXI THE PREFACE to the Reader GENTLE READER Lighting of late vpon a litle writtē Treatise intituled The Iudgmēt of a Deuine vpō the 3. Gentlemens Letter to my Lord Bishop of Chalcedon I tooke and read it thinking to find somewhat more then Ordinary in it For hauing heard much talke of that matter being now in euery mans mouth seene also something written but not to much purpose now finding a Booke with the Title of a Deuine I presumed he would say something more then others had done But whē I came to read him I found him but like other men of his owne syde and particulerly so like the Lay Gentleman T. M. his Iudgement vpon the same Letter that I began to thinke it might be the very same man the style discourse and as I may say spirit wherewith both are written being the same And that because then that seeming to be but some Lay Gentlemans doing men made small account of it not vouchsafing it so much as one word of answere Now the same party would speake a little lowder to be heard writing ouer the same somewhat more dilatedly and inserting a little Latin in some places and taking vpon him the person of a Deuine for the substance of both is the same and accusing worthy Catholique Gentlemen of Passion Temerity Pretense of daunger Partiality to Regulars want of respect to Episcopal Authority and the like and all this vttered with so litle reason truth on the one side and so much gall and bitternes on the other as that I could not but be sorry and ashamed to see such a thing with the Title of a Deuine For if such manner of writing ill be seeme any Christian mā how much worse a Deuine who is to be a light of the world teaching men sobriety and temper by word and example hauing truth and reason with him in what he sayth and writeth and deliuering it in such sort as the manner may not betray the matter by shewing any distempered affection For euen that will much derogate from his writing though what he writeth should otherwise be true For euery man knoweth what a myst Passion is wont to cast before mens eyes and how hard it is for a passionate man to speake truth and nothing but truth And this is so much more daungerous where it concerneth the credit reputation of other men which how nice a point it is and how soone how grieuously a man may offend in it no Deuine can be ignorant and especially when the party discouereth but so much of himselfe as may gayne himselfe credit and thereby giue more force to the slaunder or imputation as the wryter doth stiling himselfe Deuine and on the other syde so concealing his particuler person that the partyes grieued know not of whome to complayne nor where to haue remedy And whereas it was to be expected of a Deuine that he should handle the matter substantially and solidly I found no such thing heere but euen the very mayne Question