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A10345 The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein. Rainolds, John, 1549-1607.; Hart, John, d. 1586. aut; Rainolds, John, 1549-1607. Sex theses de Sacra Scriptura, et Ecclesia. English. aut 1584 (1584) STC 20626; ESTC S115546 763,703 768

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there is any faute in the diall I meane in the Church for that can not be as Pighius proueth pretily but because perhaps either Christ him selfe hath tooke an other course and is altered I know not by what changeablenes of God or els the whole scripture is slipt from the point in the which it stood But let vs right woorshipfull who know that the dials and clockes doo mysse often but the course of the sunne is certaine and constant let vs make more account of the sunne then of a diall of heauen then of Plinie of the Zodiake circle then of the field of Flora of God then of men of Christ then of Pighius of the holy scripture then of the church For God forbid there should be any amongst vs so beastly a monster in the shape of man as to set vp Antichrist in the temple of God aboue God and to attribute more to any either man or multitude of men then to the Lord of maiestie But so doo they no dout who haue the Church in greater regard then the scripture For the voice of the scripture is the voice of God the voice of the Church is the voice of men Then if it be impious to set vp men aboue God doubtlesse to set vp the Church aboue the scripture it is Antichristian Nor yet doo I deny that the Churches voice is sometimes the voice of God For in appeasing the offenses and reprouing the sinnes of brethren if thy brother saith Christ refuse to heare the church let him be to thee as a heathen man and a Publican But the holy spirit that is the spirit of truth doth speake both alone and alwaies in the scripture An humaine spirit that is a spirit of errour hath a part sometimes in the spéech of the Church Both which pointes I haue proued by the word of God the euidence of the thing and the confessions of our aduersaries Why doo we not then acknowledge that the royall prerogatiue of this priuilege to bee altogither exempt from all errour is due to scripture onely and confesse as Austin doth against the Donatistes that it is peculiar and proper to the holy canonicall scripture that all things which are writen therein be true and right but the letters and writings of Bishops as of Cyprian yea the very Councels not prouinciall onely but also full and generall haue often times somewhat that may be amended I for my part doo gladly both allow this sentence of Austin and iudge it woorthy to be allowed as agréeable to the trueth And therefore I conclude the point which I proposed that the holy scripture is of greater credit and autoritie then the church Thus you haue my iudgement right learned Inceptors touching the Conclusions which are to be disputed of opened in more wordes perhaps then your wisedome in fewer then the weight of the things required But I haue waded so farre in the opening of them as I thought the Proctors might wel giue me leaue by the straitnes of time As for that which néedeth to be discussed farther I will assay to open it as well as I can if occasion serue when the aduersarie arguments shall bée proposed in disputation CONCLVSIONS HANDLED IN DIVINITIE SCHOOLE THE III. OF NOVEMBER 1579. 1 The holy Catholike Church which we beleeue is the whole company of Gods elect and chosen HE who the sea the earth the skyes made by his worde of nought Who by eternall power doth guide and rule all things he wrought Did choose from out the sonnes of men before the world was pight Such as with blessed angels aye should ioy his blisfull sight The Iewes are not the onely men that make this holy band But they are souldiers chosen out of euery toung and land Where on the south the mightie prince of Abissines doth raigne Where on the north the coasts do lye that looke to Charles waine Where Phaebus with his glistring beames doth raise the dawning light And sinking in the westerne seas doth bring the darksome night The fle●h can not by natures light such hidden truthes pursue But Christian faith by light of grace this Catholike Church doth vew 2 The Church of Rome is not the Catholike Church nor a sound member of the catholike Church THey do not well who shut the world within the Roman boundes Christs Church is spred through al the earth without restraint of mounds Rome was I grant a faithfull branch of this renowned vine Rome was a myrrour that in grace in zeale in loue did shine Rome was commended farre and wide for faith in Christ his name For Peters doctrine taught and kept Rome was of worthy fame But where Rome was now ruines are The Capitoll is s●ooried The groūd is bathde in Christians blood whō Romish woolues haue wooried Her Churches are with idoles stained her guides with maners vile Whom lustfull traines and wicked hearts and beds vnchast defile O thrise vnhappie Babylon that Sions spoyle doost woorke Under the noble name and hue of Sion wouldest thou lurke 3 The reformed churches in England Scotland France Germany and other kingdomes common wealthes haue seuered them selues lawfully from the church of Rome A Place of haunt for deuils and sprits is Babylon waxt saith Iohn Art thou desirous to be saued from Babylon be gon The names and trickes of Babylon Rome on it selfe doth take Then if ye séeke eternall life sée that ye Rome forsake This haue the noble Germanes done bidding the Pope a dieu England hath followed Germany Romes thraldome to eschew Beholde the Lord hath called on the Flemish French and Dane And Scotland hath escaped eke the Papall deadly bane O that the remnant of the world by faith to Christ were knit And Princes to the Prince of all their scepters would submit Build vp O Lord O father deare the church and Sions for t That vnto thée from Babylon thy people may resort AMongst many singular benefits of God bestowed vpon our Vniuersitie fathers and brethren which may be very fruitfull to the aduancing of Gods glory and saluation of the Church if they be well husbanded there is scarse any more excellent in my iudgement then that it is ordered that the truth giuen by inspiration of God and registred in the Scripture should be not expounded onely by publike lectures but also proued by disputations A woorthy and profitable ordinance no doubt and most méete for schooles which serue to traine vp Christians that is for schooles of God For what can there be more pretious then the truth which teacheth vs the knowledge of God the way to life And what more conuenient to strengthen the truth then to haue it proued by discussing the reasons brought of both partes For as golde being digged out of the veines of the earth is seuered from earthy substance mixt therewith by the mettall-workemen knocking it together and as husbandmen are wont to sift wheat from the chaffe by winowing that it may be fit to nourish the body
wiser and discréeter legates writing by them vnto him that there was no cause why hee should be offended with his former letters For though other men saith he take the word benefit in an other sense yet you should haue taken it in that in which we tooke it and which it seemeth to haue by the first originall For it is compounded of two wordes good and fact and it signifieth not a thing that is giuen in ●ee but a good fact As it is vsed throughout the whole course of the holy scripture wherein we are saide to bee guided and nourished by the benefit of God not as though wee had these thinges of him in fee but as of his blessing and a good fact of his Now we as you know did set vpon your head the crowne of the Empire so well and so honourably that all men may iudge it was a goodfact And so were the other wordes mistaken also we bestowed on you the crowne of the Empire For by this worde bestowed we meant nothing els but we set it vpon you The Emperour had required the picture to be razed out the writing to be called backe But hée must be content and so he was with this Papall mitigation of the writing made somewhat ●mother by the Legates The picture was too good an euidence to be defaced And for all this smoothing of the writing too Pope Breake-speare ceased not to quarell with him still and to encroch vpon him The Emperour exacted hi● tribute to be taken vp in the Popes dominion the Pope sent him worde that he should not exact it but at his coronation onely The Emperour required Bishops to doo him homage and to be sworne to him the Pope wrote sharpe letters and reproued him for it The Emperour being offended with the Popes letters wrote somewhat sharply backe and set his name before the Popes and spake to him in the singular number the Pope againe wrote to him that he marueiled why he gaue not due reuerence to S. Peter and to the holy Church of Rome The Pope required him not to binde the Bishops of Italie to doo him homage the Emperour saide he was content not to seeke their homage if they would be content not to hold his lordships The Pope would not haue him send messengers to Rome vnlesse he made him priuie to it sith all in that citie were S. Peters magistrates with the whole royaltie the Emperour said that that point did neede more consultation for so the Roman Emperour should haue the bare name of a ruler onely if the Citie of Rome whence he is named the Roman Emperour were not subiect to him Upon these dealinges and answeres too and fro the matter was debated betwéene the Popes legates foure Cardinalls and the Emperour to bring them to agréement The Emperour professed that hee would both giue and receiue iudgement The Popes legates answered that it was meete he should receyue it onely sith the Pope is not subiect to any mans iudgement Whereto when the Emperour saide that he would stand to the arbitriment of sixe Cardinalls and sixe Bishops or Princes the legates were content to write thereof vnto the Pope They wrote and the Pope refused the condition To be short they agréeed not while Pope Breake-speare liued But the lustie Cardinall Rowland who succéeded him and being Pope was named Alexander the third did so rowse vp Fridericke with their olde policy of excommunications Papall and rebellions that after great daungers of his state and life he was enforced to yeelde at length and aske him pardon Which being graunted on conditions he came to Pope Rowland in the citie of Venice and kissed there his feete and gaue him the vpper hand and held his stirrup while he was m●unting on his palf●ie So by treading downe the Emperour Fridericke the Popedome was aduanced to be the highest state in earth and Peters chaire got Caesars right If Henry the fifth the sonne of Fridericke sought to stay it by seazing on S. Peters lands giuing them to thrée Dukes to be held of him in fée he sought to stay a water-course which the more you stoppe it the fiercer it doth breake out For Philip his brother the greatest of the thrée was excommunicated straight and Pope Innocentius the third watching his time drew the two swordes out against them all discharged their subiectes of their allegiance and oth and set both his clergie and laitie vpon them neither left them til he h●d vanqui●ht them what with curses what with warres and that which Pope Rowland had well begoon he nobly finished Thus haue I touched briefly the storie of the temporall state and kingdom of the Popes how ●h●y clime● vp to the soueraintie of it The truth of which storie is cléere by the monuments of historians worthie credit Paulus Diaconus Otho Radeuicus Aimo●nus Rhegino Sigibertus and others who liued at the same times wherein the seuerall thinges were done Yea they in sundrie pointes and circumstances of importance haue opened partly more partly the same more forcibly then as I haue touched it But lest you should suspect that some of them perhaps speake somewhat of affection against the Popes or for the Emperours I haue contented my selfe to touch no more nor with more aduantage then Sigonius in his storie of the kingdome of Italie presented to the Popes sonne and writen for the Popes glory as it became the Popes reader hath set downe out of them and other monuments as most true Whereby it is verie apparant and euident th●● vnder pretense of the Churches state of the Church-discipline in excommunication of the Church-doctrine in meritorious workes of the Church autoritie in forgiuing sinnes in teaching men their dueties in dispensing with othes and lastly of the Church-solemnities in setting crownes on Emperours heads the Pope hath gathered iewels to decke the triple crowne of his worldly kingdome and hath made himselfe not onely a Prince but also a Prince of Princes of the earth It was almost twelue hundred yeares after Christ when he obtained this soueraintie Sith the which time he hath more notoriously built vp his Babylon with the stones of Sion The common wealth is witnesse hereof in the calamit●●s of her ciuill gouernours Whom by the deuises of the same treacheries he hath depriued of kingdomes goodes libertie and life when they haue stoode in his light as the realmes of England of France of Germanie of Boheme of Nauarre the states of Florence Vrbine Venice in Italie haue tried to their smart But the Church hath tried it with greater smart in her spiritual pastors For as Samuell when the Israelites would haue a king to rule them as other nations had tolde them that the king who should raigne ouer them would play the king with them