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england_n article_n church_n word_n 3,211 5 4.4946 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A56638 A continuation of the Friendly debate by the same author. Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707.; Wild, Robert, 1609-1679.; Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist. 1669 (1669) Wing P779; ESTC R7195 171,973 266

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1637._o and_o the_o apology_n in_o defence_n of_o the_o proceed_n hold_v at_o boston_n 1636._o and_o great_a many_o more_o remarkable_a thing_n there_o be_v in_o that_o story_n which_o i_o can_v stand_v to_o recite_v but_o must_v proceed_v to_o tell_v you_o that_o as_o for_o other_o who_o be_v not_o of_o their_o way_n there_o be_v just_o no_o liberty_n at_o all_o for_o as_o they_o will_v not_o grant_v communion_n to_o member_n of_o other_o church_n not_o constitute_v as_o they_o be_v so_o if_o a_o company_n of_o approve_a godly_a people_n shall_v sit_v down_o near_o they_o where_o their_o power_n reach_v differ_v from_o they_o only_o in_o some_o point_n of_o church_n government_n some_o of_o they_o tell_v we_o not_o only_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v own_v as_o a_o sister_n church_n but_o also_o be_v in_o danger_n of_o severe_a punishment_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 10._o magistrate_n narration_n etc._n etc._n cap._n 10._o n._n c._n what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o our_o 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as_o mr._n feak_v 25._o feak_v beam_n of_o light_n p._n 25._o right_o observe_v leave_v it_o under_o suspense_n and_o undetermined_a which_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n have_v obtain_v the_o high_a degree_n of_o reformation_n the_o scot_n and_o their_o friend_n judge_v the_o kirk_n of_o scotland_n the_o best_a reform_v the_o dissent_v brethren_n approve_v the_o reformation_n of_o new-england_n to_o be_v most_o excellent_a but_o be_v this_o as_o it_o will_v we_o have_v learn_v thus_o much_o from_o what_o have_v be_v relate_v that_o the_o church_n of_o a_o better_a edition_n and_o great_a refinement_n do_v not_o think_v it_o unlawful_a to_o use_v form_n in_o god_n holy_a ordinance_n unto_o which_o they_o bound_v those_o who_o come_v under_o their_o power_n restrain_v they_o also_o from_o open_v their_o mouth_n when_o perhaps_o they_o think_v themselves_o full_a of_o the_o spirit_n and_o deny_v leave_n to_o other_o to_o set_v up_o a_o different_a way_n from_o they_o in_o their_o 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the_o same_o authority_n may_v alter_v they_o and_o have_v not_o so_o tie_v up_o itself_o to_o they_o but_o that_o it_o be_v at_o liberty_n to_o abolish_v those_o in_o case_n of_o inconvenience_n arise_v and_o establish_v other_o in_o the_o room_n but_o such_o a_o liberty_n as_o leaf_n man_n loose_a from_o all_o law_n and_o order_n save_v those_o that_o they_o shall_v choose_v themselves_o be_v a_o wild_a fancy_n which_o your_o minister_n condemn_v as_o well_o as_o we_o mr._n dury_n for_o instance_n a_o very_a moderate_a presbyterian_a tell_v the_o independent_a brethren_n we_o must_v expect_v no_o such_o liberty_n as_o shall_v break_v the_o bond_n of_o spiritual_a unity_n which_o by_o the_o allowance_n of_o a_o public_a toleration_n of_o a_o different_a church_n government_n may_v be_v occasion_v to_o keep_v therefore_o unity_n entire_a a_o few_o must_v
yield_v unto_o many_o except_o they_o can_v fair_o persuade_v those_o many_o to_o yield_v to_o they_o 22._o they_o epistolary_a discourse_n pag._n 22._o n._n c._n but_o what_o if_o they_o can_v agree_v c._n i_o be_v go_v to_o tell_v you_o if_o they_o can_v agree_v it_o be_v just_a they_o shall_v forfeit_v their_o spiritual_a right_n and_o liberty_n which_o christ_n have_v confer_v upon_o they_o and_o fall_v under_o the_o arbitrament_n of_o the_o secular_a power_n which_o ought_v to_o look_v unto_o its_o own_o safety_n lest_o those_o that_o make_v division_n and_o multiply_v breach_n in_o the_o church_n about_o small_a matter_n disturb_v also_o by_o that_o mean_v the_o public_a peace_n of_o the_o state_n 24._o state_n ib._n p._n 24._o of_o this_o mind_n also_o be_v mr._n john_n cotton_n a_o mild_a independent_a good_a king_n say_v he_o 2._o he_o upon_o the_o 1_o canticle_n v._n 10._o pag._n 44._o use_v 2._o aught_o to_o put_v upon_o their_o people_n wholesome_a law_n and_o straight_o bind_v to_o the_o purity_n of_o religion_n and_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n it_o be_v no_o impeachment_n to_o their_o christian_a liberty_n as_o the_o anabaptist_n dote_v but_o a_o ornament_n to_o their_o beauty_n make_v their_o neck_n comely_a as_o with_o chain_n of_o gold_n and_o a_o little_a after_o 3_o after_o ib._n use_v 3_o it_o be_v no_o impeachment_n of_o christian_a liberty_n to_o bow_v to_o christian_a law_n yea_o it_o be_v the_o beauty_n of_o a_o christian_a church_n to_o wear_v those_o chain_n those_o law_n which_o be_v make_v for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o church_n and_o it_o ☜_o be_v their_o profaneness_n and_o rebellion_n that_o say_v let_v we_o break_v their_o band_n asunder_o and_o cast_v away_o their_o cord_n from_o we_o n._n c._n he_o speak_v of_o those_o pure_a law_n which_o they_o find_v out_o not_o such_o as_o you_o c._n it_o be_v as_o much_o to_o my_o purpose_n if_o he_o do_v for_o it_o prove_v he_o will_v have_v the_o people_n strict_o tie_v to_o law_n and_o wear_v these_o chain_n always_o about_o their_o neck_n and_o our_o governor_n think_v they_o as_o good_a as_o any_o and_o so_o may_v as_o innocent_o bind_v man_n fast_o to_o they_o as_o you_o tie_v they_o to_o you_o and_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o both_o presbyterian_o and_o independent_o will_v have_v their_o order_n so_o strict_a that_o their_o people_n shall_v not_o be_v allow_v the_o liberty_n of_o go_v to_o hear_v where_o they_o please_v mr._n edward_n 125._o edward_n gangraena_fw-la 1_o part_n p._n 30._o error_n 125._o i_o remember_v in_o his_o catalogue_n of_o error_n heresy_n and_o blasphemy_n put_v down_o this_o for_o one_o that_o it_o be_v part_n of_o man_n christian_a liberty_n not_o to_o hear_v their_o own_o minister_n but_o to_o go_v and_o hear_v where_o they_o will_v and_o who_o they_o think_v they_o may_v profit_v most_o by_o and_o the_o new-england_n church_n condemn_v those_o that_o say_v 80._o say_v catalogue_n of_o the_o opinion_n condemn_v by_o a_o assembly_n of_o the_o church_n aug._n 30._o 1637._o error_n 80._o if_o a_o man_n think_v he_o may_v edify_v better_o in_o another_o congregation_n than_o in_o his_o own_o that_o be_v ground_n enough_o to_o depart_v ordinary_o from_o word_n seal_n etc._n etc._n notwithstanding_o the_o offence_n of_o the_o church_n often_o manifest_v to_o he_o for_o so_o do_v n._n c._n but_o why_o shall_v there_o be_v any_o penalty_n c._n you_o may_v as_o well_o ask_v i_o over_o again_o why_o any_o law_n which_o will_v be_v ridiculous_a without_o they_o but_o i_o wonder_v you_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o speak_v against_o penalty_n and_o force_n who_o press_v the_o covenant_n with_o more_o severity_n than_o ever_o any_o body_n do_v conformity_n what_o crossness_n be_v this_o as_o the_o bishop_n of_o down_o say_v 1638._o say_v visitation_n speech_n at_o lis●egarvy_n 26._o august_n 1638._o that_o when_o we_o press_v man_n to_o conform_v to_o the_o order_n of_o our_o church_n they_o allege_v it_o be_v contrary_a to_o christian_a liberty_n to_o enforce_v man_n to_o the_o do_v of_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n and_o that_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v full_o resolve_v in_o his_o own_o mind_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o that_o which_o he_o do_v and_o yet_o we_o urge_v that_o only_o under_o pain_n of_o suspension_n and_o excommunication_n and_o that_o after_o much_o patience_n and_o forbearance_n use_v all_o fair_a mean_n to_o persuade_v they_o but_o they_o compel_v man_n to_o subscribe_v the_o covenant_n against_o their_o conscience_n by_o pike_n and_o pistol_n threaten_v no_o less_o than_o loss_n of_o life_n or_o good_n and_o land_n in_o case_n of_o refusal_n by_o this_o we_o may_v judge_v of_o sincerity_n and_o what_o they_o will_v do_v in_o other_o thing_n have_v they_o power_n in_o their_o hand_n the_o truth_n be_v one_o can_v scarce_o live_v among_o you_o when_o you_o have_v power_n for_o all_o that_o will_v not_o take_v the_o covenant_n be_v hold_v to_o be_v malignant_n and_o if_o you_o know_v not_o what_o be_v to_o be_v do_v with_o they_o a_o eminent_a person_n will_v tell_v you_o n._n c._n who_o do_v you_o mean_v c._n do_v you_o not_o remember_v who_o it_o be_v that_o complemented_a the_o parliament_n as_o the_o keeper_n of_o our_o vineyard_n and_o commend_v they_o for_o be_v want_v in_o nothing_o to_o their_o duty_n n._n c._n what_o then_o c._n you_o shall_v hear_v he_o say_v they_o have_v endeavour_v to_o fence_v the_o vineyard_n with_o a_o settle_a militia_n and_o then_o to_o gather_v out_o the_o malignant_n as_o stone_n and_o to_o make_v a_o wine-press_n therein_o for_o the_o squeeze_v of_o delinquent_n 1643._o delinquent_n epistle_n before_o the_o sermon_n to_o the_o commons_o 25._o jan._n 1643._o n._n c._n i_o know_v not_o who_o this_o be_v c._n i_o will_v be_v so_o civil_a to_o his_o memory_n as_o to_o let_v this_o pass_v without_o name_v he_o but_o he_o be_v one_o of_o those_o you_o call_v a_o moderate_a presbyterian_a by_o which_o we_o may_v know_v what_o mind_n the_o zealot_n be_v of_o and_o as_o for_o the_o independent_o they_o be_v for_o a_o exact_a and_o thorough_a reformation_n too_o for_o that_o which_o they_o be_v about_o have_v cost_n god_n dear_a they_o say_v and_o he_o will_v not_o lay_v out_o so_o much_o for_o a_o imperfect_a poor_a and_o low_a reformation_n and_o therefore_o exhort_v the_o parliament_n not_o to_o spare_v the_o lash_n to_o effect_v it_o but_o do_v as_o jesus_n christ_n do_v when_o he_o come_v to_o purge_v the_o temple_n not_o only_o chide_v the_o money_n changer_n but_o whip_v they_o away_o and_o overthrow_v the_o very_a table_n lest_o they_o shall_v recover_v their_o trade_n again_o 25._o again_o see_v mr._n bridge_n sermon_n before_o the_o commons_o nou._n 29._o 1643._o p._n 24_o 25._o which_o other_o deliver_v in_o this_o phrase_n dagon_n be_v begin_v to_o fall_v before_o the_o ark_n his_o head_n be_v off_o but_o let_v not_o so_o much_o as_o the_o stump_n remain_v i._n e._n give_v no_o liberty_n 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majesty_n and_o those_o of_o his_o judgement_n who_o can_v not_o in_o conscience_n submit_v thereunto_o may_v not_o be_v oblige_v to_o it_o but_o leave_v free_a to_o their_o own_o way_n 1648._o way_n this_o be_v septemb_n 29._o 1648._o but_o this_o will_v not_o be_v grant_v for_o you_o must_v know_v that_o though_o the_o parliament_n have_v ordain_v 1645._o ordain_v ordin_n of_o march_v 1.4_o 1645._o the_o chapel_n or_o place_n in_o the_o house_n of_o the_o king_n and_o his_o child_n shall_v continue_v free_a for_o the_o exercise_n of_o divine_a duty_n without_o any_o elder_n yet_o this_o be_v no_o more_o than_o they_o allow_v to_o every_o peer_n in_o the_o realm_n and_o those_o duty_n also_o be_v to_o be_v perform_v according_a to_o the_o directory_n and_o not_o otherwise_o and_o
by_o forbearance_n all_o this_o while_n they_o have_v fret_v like_o a_o gangrene_n into_o the_o bowel_n both_o of_o city_n and_o country_n and_o i_o fear_v we_o have_v keep_v their_o counsel_n so_o long_o that_o many_o of_o they_o be_v already_o past_a cure_n and_o we_o almost_o remediless_a in_o our_o rent_n tend_v unto_o ruin_n 51._o narration_n of_o some_o church_n course_v in_o new_a england_n by_o w._n r._n p._n 51._o nay_o do_v not_o frown_v as_o if_o i_o be_v too_o sharp_a and_o severe_a they_o be_v not_o my_o word_n but_o some_o of_o your_o own_o against_o the_o independent_a brethren_n and_o may_v with_o as_o much_o or_o more_o justice_n be_v now_o apply_v to_o you_o all_o n._n c._n i_o think_v there_o be_v other_o course_n more_o dangerous_a than_o those_o that_o aught_o to_o be_v look_v after_o profaneness_n i_o mean_v be_v the_o great_a thing_n which_o both_o you_o and_o we_o ought_v to_o set_v ourselves_o against_o and_o that_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o abound_v more_o 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to_o christ_n and_o a_o advantage_n to_o the_o world_n that_o his_o name_n and_o memorial_n shall_v perish_v from_o the_o heart_n and_o mouth_n of_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o people_n profess_v his_o name_n and_o engage_v in_o covenant_n to_o he_o nay_o in_o many_o place_n they_o never_o see_v it_o administer_v to_o any_o at_o all_o for_o many_o year_n your_o minister_n choose_v rather_o to_o deprive_v themselves_o and_o other_o of_o who_o they_o have_v a_o good_a opinion_n of_o this_o heavenly_a banquet_n then_o afford_v it_o to_o many_o well-meaning_a though_o no_o talk_a people_n and_o so_o while_o they_o complain_v of_o their_o live_n in_o know_a sin_n they_o themselves_o live_v many_o year_n in_o a_o notorious_a omission_n of_o this_o duty_n sometime_o indeed_o they_o will_v invite_v man_n to_o this_o feast_n but_o then_o by_o their_o preach_n they_o hinder_v and_o discourage_v the_o most_o if_o not_o all_o in_o a_o country-congregation_n as_o if_o they_o be_v too_o forward_o 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as_o it_o will_v three_o i_o can_v ready_o tell_v which_o be_v worse_a the_o publican_n and_o harlot_n or_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharisee_n this_o i_o know_v that_o there_o have_v a_o long_a time_n be_v a_o great_a many_o of_o the_o last_o who_o justify_v themselves_o and_o look_v upon_o all_o other_o as_o abominable_a dr._n burges_n preface_n burges_n fire_n of_o the_o sanct._n uncov_fw-mi a_o 1625._o in_o the_o preface_n i_o remember_v tell_v we_o with_o a_o great_a confidence_n that_o those_o who_o keep_v heretofore_o such_o a_o frantic_a coil_n about_o ceremony_n and_o think_v they_o never_o take_v their_o level_a right_n but_o when_o at_o every_o bolt_n they_o shoot_v they_o strike_v a_o bishop_n cap_n shire_n off_o his_o head_n be_v more_o fantastical_a ignorant_a proud_a self-willed_a negligent_a and_o deceitful_a in_o their_o particular_a calling_n than_o many_o who_o they_o despise_v and_o condemn_v to_o hell_n for_o carnal_a man_n as_o any_o observe_a eye_n may_v easy_o discern_v now_o what_o to_o think_v of_o these_o man_n in_o compare_n with_o the_o other_o let_v honest_a martin_n bucer_n tell_v you_o who_o be_v one_o of_o the_o first_o reformer_n and_o who_o name_n i_o know_v you_o can_v but_o reverence_v as_o well_o as_o i_o on_o many_o account_n n._n c._n how_o do_v you_o know_v what_o martin_n bucer_n say_v c._n i_o understand_v a_o little_a latin_a and_o beside_o i_o have_v see_v the_o latter_a part_n of_o his_o comment_n on_o the_o prophet_n zephaniah_n translate_v into_o our_o tongue_n where_o he_o tell_v we_o towards_o the_o conclusion_n that_o there_o be_v some_o among_o they_o under_o a_o pernicious_a mistake_n abhor_v only_o these_o gross_a thing_n to_o wear_v brave_a clothes_n to_o fare_v delicious_o to_o drink_v and_o swill_v to_o whore_n to_o heap_v up_o riches_n careful_o to_o
christ_n that_o now_o be_v or_o ever_o be_v n._n c._n pray_v do_v not_o say_v so_o c._n they_o have_v grant_v i_o that_o for_o 1400._o year_n there_o never_o be_v any_o church_n with_o which_o we_o may_v hold_v communion_n if_o not_o with_o we_o and_o i_o will_v prove_v that_o there_o have_v be_v none_o for_o these_o 1668._o year_n n._n c._n you_o be_v strange_o bold_a c._n no_o bold_a than_o mr._n calvin_n who_o will_v give_v you_o good_a satisfaction_n if_o you_o read_v the_o chapter_n to_o which_o i_o refer_v you_o that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n in_o our_o saviour_n time_n and_o the_o apostolical_a church_n afterward_o tolerate_a great_a vice_n in_o manner_n and_o foul_a error_n in_o doctrine_n than_o be_v in_o any_o church_n from_o which_o in_o his_o day_n a_o separation_n be_v make_v and_o i_o will_v show_v you_o distinct_o either_o now_o or_o when_o you_o will_v require_v it_o that_o those_o church_n plant_v and_o water_v by_o the_o apostle_n have_v those_o corruption_n in_o doctrine_n worship_n manner_n discipline_n and_o government_n which_o can_v be_v pretend_v to_o be_v in_o we_o and_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o separation_n of_o some_o member_n from_o the_o rest_n nay_o the_o apostle_n notwithstanding_o all_o these_o speak_v very_o well_o in_o general_n of_o some_o they_o call_v they_o all_o believer_n and_o saint_n and_o none_o know_v then_o any_o other_o man_n of_o the_o world_n and_o unbeliever_n but_o pagan_n such_o as_o do_v not_o acknowledge_v jesus_n to_o be_v the_o lord_n n._n c._n i_o be_o loath_a to_o give_v you_o so_o great_a a_o trouble_n but_o i_o pray_v answer_v i_o one_o scripture_n which_o seem_v to_o be_v against_o this_o when_o it_o say_v the_o apostle_n separate_v the_o disciple_n act._n 19.9_o c._n admirable_o argue_v the_o apostle_n separate_v the_o disciple_n from_o those_o that_o be_v not_o disciple_n and_o therefore_o we_o may_v separate_v disciple_n from_o disciple_n n._n c._n how_o say_v you_o c._n the_o apostle_n i_o say_v be_v send_v to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n and_o make_v disciple_n to_o christ_n baptise_v they_o into_o his_o name_n who_o believe_v on_o he_o those_o who_o will_v make_v profession_n of_o christ_n they_o gather_v into_o a_o new_a church_n from_o among_o the_o jew_n and_o pagan_n who_o disow_v he_o and_o according_o here_o in_o this_o city_n have_v win_v some_o to_o believe_v and_o make_v they_o christ_n disciple_n they_o separate_v they_o from_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o jewish_a synagogue_n who_o blaspheme_v christ_n and_o will_v acknowledge_v no_o other_o religion_n but_o that_o of_o moses_n to_o be_v a_o distinct_a society_n by_o themselves_o and_o no_o long_a member_n of_o the_o unbelieve_a synagogue_n from_o whence_o you_o will_v infer_v that_o one_o christian_n be_v to_o be_v separate_v from_o another_o christian_a and_o believer_n gather_v from_o believer_n if_o one_o part_n appear_v to_o we_o pious_a and_o the_o other_o vicious_a which_o be_v just_a as_o if_o the_o apostle_n 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show_v you_o what_o a_o rare_a seer_n he_o be_v in_o the_o revelation_n n._n c._n i_o have_v hear_v other_o beside_o he_o mention_v this_o place_n mr._n case_n i_o remember_v give_v we_o this_o reason_n to_o hope_v that_o god_n will_v be_v gracious_a to_o england_n 69._o england_n encouragement_n to_o wait_v on_o god_n p._n 69._o and_o that_o babylon_n shall_v short_o fall_v because_o he_o have_v begin_v with_o such_o a_o distinct_a and_o audible_a voice_n from_o heaven_n to_o call_v his_o people_n out_o of_o babylon_n say_v come_v out_o of_o she_o my_o people_n etc._n etc._n rev._n 18.4_o her_o idolatrous_a bowing_n cringing_n altar_n cross_n and_o curse_a ceremony_n false_a worship_n false_a doctrine_n c._n you_o need_v say_v no_o more_o i_o have_v it_o perfect_o in_o mind_n as_o well_o as_o you_o and_o you_o be_v wont_a i_o know_v in_o those_o day_n to_o believe_v that_o they_o know_v the_o design_n of_o heaven_n as_o well_o as_o if_o they_o have_v be_v counsellor_n of_o state_n 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