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england_n article_n church_n doctrine_n 10,044 5 6.9591 4 true
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A64146 An answer to a book entituled An account of the Church Catholike where it was before the Reformation; and whether Rome were or be the Church Catholike. Wherein is proved, that the Catholike Church never was, nor can be distinct from that which is now called, the Church of Rome. By R.T. Esquire. R. T. 1654 (1654) Wing T42; ESTC R221978 68,689 169

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ignorance_n and_o to_o strengthen_v he_o by_o your_o weakness_n 53._o i_o pass_v by_o your_o scurrilous_a speech_n against_a m._n t._n b._n as_o your_o compare_v he_o to_o seneca_n wife_n fool_n your_o charge_v he_o for_o not_o be_v able_a to_o search_v the_o scripture_n counsel_n and_o father_n to_o discover_v the_o antiquity_n and_o succession_n of_o your_o doctrine_n there_o where_o no_o man_n ever_o yet_o do_v or_o can_v discover_v it_o i_o will_v only_o say_v this_o that_o m._n t._n b._n have_v show_v more_o wit_n and_o judgement_n in_o one_o line_n than_o you_o have_v in_o all_o your_o pamphlet_n and_o have_v say_v more_o in_o one_o sentence_n than_o you_o or_o all_o the_o rabble_n of_o your_o sect_n can_v answer_v in_o a_o age_n but_o let_v we_o see_v how_o you_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o your_o doctrine_n 54._o the_o doctrine_n you_o say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v clear_a in_o your_o book_n of_o common-prayer_n as_o for_o the_o positive_a part_n and_o in_o 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new_a thing_n in_o his_o time_n for_o the_o church_n to_o invent_v new_a word_n to_o express_v old_a doctrine_n why_o be_v it_o not_o lawful_a for_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n sess_n 13._o to_o define_v and_o declare_v the_o indifferency_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o communicate_v the_o laity_n under_o one_o kind_n only_o and_o to_o anathematise_v those_o that_o shall_v pertinatious_o oppose_v that_o doctrine_n last_o why_o be_v it_o not_o lawful_a for_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n sess_n 25._o to_o declare_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o invocate_a the_o blessed_a saint_n and_o to_o denounce_v a_o curse_n against_o all_o obstinate_a opposer_n thereof_o thus_o you_o see_v those_o four_o fond_a and_o sacrilegious_a doctrine_n and_o such_o as_o you_o say_v be_v repugnant_a to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n confirm_v declare_v and_o define_v to_o be_v sacred_a truth_n and_o apostolical_a tradition_n by_o four_o general_a counsel_n you_o have_v also_o see_v they_o hold_v and_o practise_v by_o the_o ancient_a father_n that_o
live_v within_o the_o first_o 500_o year_n of_o christianity_n sect._n 35._o 36._o 37._o 38._o etc._n etc._n what_o can_v you_o say_v for_o yourselves_o what_o can_v you_o plead_v for_o yourselves_o that_o you_o who_o deny_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v not_o incur_v the_o penalty_n of_o the_o curse_n 75._o you_o will_v say_v perchance_o that_o these_o be_v not_o doctrine_n and_o declaration_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n catholic_n but_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n only_o and_o those_o in_o communion_n with_o she_o which_o you_o say_v be_v but_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o this_o will_v not_o now_o serve_v your_o turn_n whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o those_o in_o communion_n with_o she_o be_v a_o part_n only_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n or_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n itself_o as_o i_o have_v sufficient_o prove_v it_o be_v it_o matter_n not_o you_o can_v be_v excuse_v from_o heresy_n for_o when_o luther_n be_v a_o friar_n before_o he_o set_v himself_o against_o the_o church_n what_o church_n what_o congregation_n of_o christian_n what_o nation_n what_o people_n nay_o what_o man_n be_v there_o in_o the_o whole_a world_n profess_v the_o name_n of_o christ_n that_o deny_v or_o oppose_v those_o or_o any_o one_o of_o those_o forementioned_a doctrine_n these_o be_v doctrine_n receive_v embrace_v and_o public_o profess_v by_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n not_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o those_o in_o communion_n with_o her_o only_a but_o those_o also_o that_o be_v out_o of_o her_o communion_n as_o the_o whole_a pretend_a greek_a church_n receive_v and_o profess_v these_o doctrine_n in_o their_o universal_a public_a and_o daily_a practice_n as_o appear_v by_o jeremias_n patriarch_n of_o constantinople_n in_o his_o sententia_fw-la desinitiva_fw-la de_fw-la doctrina_fw-la &_o religione_fw-la wittenberg_n en_fw-fr sium_fw-la protestanti●m_fw-la as_o also_o in_o his_o censura_fw-la orientalis_n ecclesiae_fw-la where_o you_o shall_v find_v a_o detestation_n of_o your_o opposite_a doctrine_n 76._o but_o if_o those_o doctrine_n be_v fond_a sacrilegious_a and_o repugnant_a to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n where_o be_v the_o church_n that_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n when_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n before_o luther_n apostasy_n receive_v hold_v and_o maintain_v they_o and_o if_o those_o that_o shall_v thus_o separate_v themselves_o from_o and_o oppose_v the_o whole_a church_n in_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n receive_v by_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o such_o and_o acknowledge_v by_o she_o to_o be_v of_o universal_a and_o apostolical_a tradition_n be_v not_o heretic_n there_o never_o be_v neither_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o there_o ever_o shall_v be_v any_o heretic_n in_o the_o world_n and_o yet_o you_o be_v no_o separation_n but_o a_o reformatson_n but_o what_o can_v be_v invent_v more_o absurd_a or_o ridiculous_a than_o that_o one_o single_a apostate_n in_o germany_n or_o a_o few_o avaricious_a and_o flatter_a courtier_n in_o england_n shall_v first_o forsake_v the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n wherein_o they_o have_v live_v from_o their_o baptism_n and_o wherein_o all_o their_o forefather_n for_o almost_o 1000_o year_n live_v and_o die_v and_o afterward_o renounce_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n universal_o receive_v by_o the_o church_n and_o then_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o be_v judge_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o christ_n have_v make_v the_o supreme_a judge_n of_o all_o controversy_n and_o to_o reform_v the_o whole_a church_n and_o that_o in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n but_o you_o must_v know_v doctor_n that_o the_o catholic_a church_n can_v teach_v or_o maintain_v sacrilegious_a doctrine_n or_o such_o as_o be_v repugnaut_n to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n for_o than_o she_o will_v cease_v to_o be_v holy_a and_o consequent_o to_o be_v a_o church_n holiness_n be_v essential_a to_o god_n church_n as_o appear_v both_o by_o the_o nicene_n and_o apostles_n creed_n if_o then_o the_o church_n shall_v obtrude_v upon_o the_o world_n sacrilegious_a and_o idolatrous_a doctrine_n and_o such_o as_o be_v repugnant_a to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n instead_o of_o sacred_a and_o divine_a truth_n she_o can_v not_o possible_o be_v holy_a since_o then_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n when_o luther_n be_v a_o friar_n teach_v and_o maintain_v those_o four_o forementioned_a doctrine_n which_o you_o be_v please_v to_o stile_n sacrilegious_a and_o repugnans_fw-la to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n it_o must_v necessary_o follow_v that_o either_o at_o that_o time_n god_n have_v no_o church_n at_o all_o which_o yourself_o confess_v to_o be_v impossible_a or_o ●_z that_o those_o doctrine_n be_v not_o sacrilegious_a or_o repugnant_a to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n but_o sacred_a and_o apostolical_a truth_n and_o if_o so_o what_o be_v those_o that_o oppose_v and_o contradiet_n they_o 77._o hence_o it_o appear_v how_o false_a that_o be_v which_o you_o say_v sect._n 32._o that_o you_o communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o necessary_n in_o faith_n hope_n and_o charity_n etc._n etc._n since_o you_o oppose_v she_o in_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o by_o your_o schism_n a_o sin_n direct_o against_o charity_n have_v cut_v yourselves_o off_o from_o her_o communion_n with_o what_o face_n then_o can_v you_o say_v sect._n 34._o that_o you_o abhor_v not_o mutual_a communion_n with_o she_o in_o divine_a worship_n do_v you_o not_o abhor_v to_o communicate_v with_o she_o in_o the_o sacrament_n do_v you_o not_o call_v her_o adoration_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o b._n sacrament_n idolatry_n and_o whereas_o you_o say_v there_o that_o you_o can_v endure_v that_o divine_a worship_n be_v give_v to_o any_o other_o then_o to_o the_o b._n trinity_n i_o will_v have_v you_o know_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n give_v not_o divive_v worship_n to_o any_o thing_n but_o god_n and_o if_o you_o will_v say_v that_o she_o do_v you_o will_v but_o prove_v yourself_o very_o malicious_a or_o very_a ignorant_a 78._o in_o your_o 35_o sect._n i_o find_v nothing_o but_o what_o be_v either_o impertinent_a or_o already_o answer_v 79._o in_o the_o next_o sect._n i_o meet_v with_o a_o bold_a challenge_n i_o challenge_v say_v the_o doctor_n the_o most_o able_a of_o your_o faction_n to_o show_v i_o any_o one_o passage_n in_o our_o common-prayer_n book_n that_o be_v not_o catholic_a answ_n if_o your_o book_n of_o common-prayer_n be_v catholic_n yet_o you_o have_v no_o great_a reason_n to_o boast_v of_o it_o you_o may_v thank_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o it_o from_o who_o you_o borrow_v it_o which_o you_o know_v doctor_n be_v the_o principal_a reason_n why_o those_o of_o the_o puritan_n faction_n refuse_v and_o abhor_v your_o book_n of_o common-prayer_n as_o be_v popish_a and_o super_fw-la stitious_a but_o if_o all_o in_o that_o book_n be_v catholic_a it_o be_v rather_o a_o argument_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v catholic_a from_o whence_o you_o take_v it_o then_o that_o you_o be_v so_o for_o all_o in_o that_o book_n may_v be_v catholic_a yet_o you_o may_v be_v heretical_a you_o may_v oppose_v as_o you_o do_v other_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o nor_o deducible_a from_o your_o book_n of_o common_a prayer_n and_o if_o about_o the_o begin_n of_o your_o defection_n some_o catholic_n frequent_v your_o service_n it_o be_v because_o they_o esteem_v it_o devout_a and_o pious_a as_o be_v all_o take_v out_o of_o the_o office_n and_o missale_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n they_o have_v not_o full_o consider_v nor_o yet_o clear_o apprehend_v the_o unlawfulness_n thereof_o wherefore_o it_o behove_v the_o common_a pastor_n of_o god_n church_n to_o put_v they_o in_o mind_n how_o impious_a and_o sacrilegious_a it_o be_v for_o catholic_n to_o communicate_v with_o those_o who_o be_v guilty_a both_o of_o schism_n and_o heresy_n in_o divine_a service_n 80._o and_o whereas_o you_o allege_v s._n paul_n to_o prove_v that_o in_o meat_n and_o matter_n of_o indifferency_n we_o be_v not_o to_o judge_v one_o another_o you_o must_v know_v doctor_n that_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n such_o as_o be_v declaration_n and_o definition_n of_o general_n counsel_n the_o law_n and_o canon_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n make_v and_o general_o receive_v by_o the_o church_n as_o the_o ancient_a canon_n concern_v festival_n and_o fast_n be_v not_o matter_n of_o indifferency_n and_o can_v be_v violate_v without_o schism_n or_o heresy_n 81._o but_o i_o wonder_v with_o what_o face_n you_o can_v call_v your_o congregation_n the_o mother-church_n of_o catholic_n sect._n 39_o it_o be_v you_o that_o have_v forsake_v your_o mother-church_n that_o church_n wherein_o all_o your_o forefather_n live_v and_o die_v for_o about_o 1000_o year_n together_o you_o confess_v that_o once_o you_o communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o that_o since_o you_o have_v forsake_v her_o communion_n
against_o the_o arrian_n and_o that_o faelix_fw-la be_v appoint_v to_o succeed_v he_o in_o the_o papacy_n who_o be_v arrianae_n sectae_fw-la addictus_fw-la but_o there_o be_v not_o one_o word_n there_o of_o rome_n be_v arrian_n socrat._v li._n 2._o c._n ●9_n and_o if_o faelix_fw-la do_v perchance_o sometime_o favour_v the_o arrian_n faction_n yet_o be_v it_o before_o he_o be_v elect_v pope_n not_o afterward_o as_o appear_v plain_o by_o sozomen_n in_o the_o very_a place_n by_o you_o cite_v li._n 4._o c._n 10._o liberius_n ecclesiae_fw-la romanae_fw-la episcopatu_fw-la privatus_fw-la est_fw-la cvi_fw-la praefuïtur_fw-la faelix_fw-la illius_fw-la cleri_fw-la diaconus_fw-la quem_fw-la aiunt_fw-la fidei_fw-la concilii_fw-la nicaeni_n semper_fw-la consensisse_fw-la &_o omnino_fw-la quantum_fw-la pertinebat_fw-la ad_fw-la religionem_fw-la reprehensione_n caruisse_fw-la liberius_n say_v he_o be_v deprive_v of_o the_o bishopric_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o which_o faelix_fw-la a_o deacon_n of_o that_o clergy_n be_v prefer_v who_o be_v ●said_a to_o have_v always_o consent_v to_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o nicene_n council_n and_o be_v never_o unblamable_a for_o any_o thing_n that_o concern_v religion_n these_o be_v the_o very_a word_n of_o sozomen_n and_o in_o the_o very_a same_o place_n cite_v by_o the_o doctor_n nothing_o there_o concern_v faelix_fw-la for_o rome_n be_v arrian_n thus_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v how_o fraudulent_o the_o doctor_n have_v deal_v with_o the_o world_n well_o but_o faelix_fw-la or_o dain_v divers_a arrian_n what_o then_o must_v he_o therefore_o be_v a_o arrian_n himself_o or_o must_v he_o necessary_o know_v they_o to_o be_v such_o but_o he_o communicate_v with_o arrian_n and_o must_v he_o therefore_o be_v a_o arrian_n do_v not_o catholic_n at_o this_o time_n communicate_v with_o heretic_n in_o england_n france_n germany_n etc._n etc._n in_o outward_a conversation_n and_o civil_a commerce_n though_o not_o in_o their_o heresy_n and_o you_o neither_o have_v prove_v nor_o ever_o can_v prove_v that_o faelix_fw-la communicate_v with_o the_o arrian_n in_o their_o heretical_a and_o blasphemous_a doctrine_n but_o in_o outward_a conversation_n only_o which_o be_v and_o ever_o be_v lawful_a for_o any_o catholic_a 61._o to_o pass_v by_o your_o impertinent_a distinction_n between_o a_o profess_a and_o a_o close_a heretic_n as_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n i_o come_v to_o your_o other_o passage_n wherein_o you_o say_v and_o cite_v some_o canon_n for_o it_o that_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n be_v estimate_v by_o communicate_v with_o the_o bishop_n and_o if_o any_o whether_o priest_n or_o other_o shall_v sever_v themselves_o from_o the_o canonical_a bishop_n they_o be_v censure_v to_o be_v heretic_n answ_n this_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v when_o the_o bishop_n be_v catholic_a and_o keep_v himself_o within_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o if_o the_o bishop_n be_v heretical_a and_o the_o church_n shall_v communicate_v with_o he_o in_o his_o heresy_n the_o church_n also_o become_v heretical_a be_v the_o bishop_n thereof_o a_o profess_a or_o close_a heretic_n it_o matter_n not_o but_o by_o this_o your_o own_o rule_n you_o must_v confess_v yourselves_o heretic_n because_o you_o do_v original_o s●ver_v yourselves_o from_o your_o canonical_a catholic_a bishop_n and_o follow_v your_o own_o and_o other_o man_n new_a invention_n and_o when_o all_o your_o pretend_a bishop_n be_v heretical_a you_o communicate_v with_o they_o and_o their_o heresy_n 62._o but_o the_o bishop_n may_v be_v either_o a_o profess_a or_o close_a heretic_n and_o yet_o the_o church_n may_v be_v catholic_a and_o this_o yourself_o express_o grant_v in_o your_o follow_a sect._n 22._o where_o you_o say_v that_o you_o believe_v that_o the_o king_n of_o england_n and_o archbishop_n of_o cauterbury_n ●ither_o or_o both_o of_o they_o may_v be_v heretic_n and_o this_o church_n not_o so_o since_o it_o be_v not_o their_o be_v but_o our_o comply_v that_o make_v we_o heretical_a herein_o you_o have_v full_o contradict_v yourself_o and_o grant_v whatsoever_o i_o have_v say_v concern_v this_o point_n for_o if_o the_o church_n of_o england_n may_v be_v catholic_a though_o both_o king_n and_o metropolitan_a thereof_o be_v heretic_n why_o may_v not_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v catholic_n though_o the_o bishop_n thereof_o be_v heretical_a 63._o but_o say_v you_o if_o all_o our_o bishop_n be_v of_o the_o same_o religion_n with_o they_o this_o church_n be_v in_o a_o ill_a case_n answ_n i_o say_v so_o too_o yet_o it_o may_v be_v catholic_a all_o your_o pretend_a bishop_n may_v be_v heretical_a as_o they_o be_v all_o for_o about_o these_o 100_o year_n together_o last_v pass_v and_o yet_o there_o may_v be_v a_o catholic_a church_n in_o england_n it_o be_v possible_a that_o the_o particular_a member_n of_o each_o diocese_n may_v not_o comply_v with_o their_o bishop_n in_o his_o heresy_n and_o then_o according_a to_o your_o own_o say_n they_o be_v not_o heretical_a the_o inferior_a priest_n and_o people_n may_v preserve_v their_o faith_n though_o all_o the_o bishop_n fall_v from_o it_o but_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n be_v ever_o all_o the_o bishop_n that_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o patriarchal_a sea_n of_o rome_n at_o one_o and_o the_o same_o time_n heretic_n i_o suppose_v no_o man_n beside_o yourself_o be_v ever_o possess_v with_o such_o a_o ridiculous_a imagination_n what_o if_o your_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n alone_o have_v be_v a_o heretic_n and_o all_o the_o other_o bishop_n within_o his_o province_n catholic_n will_v you_o therefore_o conclude_v that_o the_o particular_a church_n or_o diocese_n of_o canterbury_n must_v necessary_o have_v be_v heretical_a if_o you_o say_v so_o you_o plain_o contradict_v yourself_o who_o even_o now_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o king_n or_o archbishop_n be_v heretical_a but_o our_o comply_v with_o they_o that_o make_v we_o heretical_a sect._n 22._o 64._o but_o the_o doctor_n pursue_v this_o argument_n close_o and_o endeavour_n to_o prove_v that_o when_o the_o king_n and_o priest_n join_v together_o it_o have_v a_o strange_a influence_n upon_o the_o people_n for_o good_a or_o bad_a answ_n what_o then_o must_v the_o people_n therefore_o of_o necessity_n be_v good_a or_o bad_a according_a as_o the_o king_n and_o priest_n be_v can_v god_n grace_v overcome_v this_o influence_n and_o preserve_v the_o people_n from_o infection_n but_o you_o say_v when_o king_n ahaz_n and_o urijah_n the_o priest_n profess_v i_o dolatry_n though_o many_o good_a man_n be_v resident_a among_o they_o yet_o be_v the_o city_n and_o people_n account_v heretical_a answ_n first_o it_o appear_v not_o by_o the_o text_n that_o they_o be_v so_o account_v second_o if_o they_o be_v account_v heretical_a do_v it_o herefore_o necessary_o follow_v that_o they_o be_v so_o do_v truth_n and_o falsehood_n depend_v on_o the_o opinion_n of_o man_n if_o so_o than_o every_o man_n in_o his_o own_o opinion_n will_v be_v catholic_n and_o all_o the_o world_n beside_o that_o concur_v not_o with_o he_o in_o his_o judgement_n will_v be_v heretic_n it_o be_v not_o necessary_a that_o every_o one_o must_v be_v good_a or_o bad_a catholic_a or_o heretic_n according_a as_o some_o man_n perchance_o out_o of_o error_n either_o in_o doctrine_n or_o fact_n shall_v esteem_v he_o but_o what_o if_o that_o city_n and_o people_n be_v not_o only_o account_v but_o true_o and_o real_o heretical_a must_v it_o therefore_o always_o follow_v that_o when_o the_o king_n and_o priest_n be_v heretical_a the_o city_n and_o people_n must_v of_o necessity_n be_v so_o too_o what_o if_o constantius_n the_o emperor_n and_o leon●ius_n the_o bishop_n what_o if_o valens_n and_o eudoxius_n by_o join_v together_o in_o heresy_n withdraw_v many_o partly_o by_o power_n pard_o by_o example_n from_o the_o catholic_a faith_n do_v it_o therefore_o always_o necessary_o follow_v that_o when_o the_o prince_n and_o priest_n join_v in_o heresy_n the_o people_n also_o must_v be_v heretical_a must_v every_o thing_n come_v to_o pass_v because_o it_o may_v come_v to_o pass_v no_o doctor_n the_o young_a sophister_n will_v tell_v you_o that_o à_fw-la posse_fw-la &_o esse_fw-la non_fw-la valet_fw-la argumentum_fw-la 65._o and_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o under_o king_n edward_n vi_o and_o queen_n mary_n the_o religion_n of_o the_o church_n be_v judge_v of_o by_o the_o governor_n i_o answer_v that_o the_o religion_n of_o this_o nation_n not_o of_o the_o church_n for_o it_o be_v not_o the_o religion_n of_o the_o prince_n but_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o ancient_a catholic_a faith_n that_o constitute_v a_o church_n be_v judge_v of_o not_o by_o the_o governor_n but_o by_o the_o law_n that_o be_v make_v in_o k._n edw._n vi_o and_o queen_n maryes_fw-mi day_n respective_o either_o to_o establish_v a_o new_a upstart_n religion_n never_o before_o hear_v of_o in_o the_o world_n or_o to_o re-establish_a