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england_n argument_n church_n prove_v 2,512 5 6.5684 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A14657 The svmme of a dispvtation betweene Mr. VValker, pastor of St. Iohn Euanglists [sic] in Watling-street London, and a popish priest calling himselfe Mr. Smith, but indeed Norrice assisted by other priests and papists : held in the presence of some worthy knights, with other gentlemen of both religions. Walker, George, 1581?-1651.; S. N. (Sylvester Norris), 1572-1630. 1624 (1624) STC 24960.5; ESTC S2955 22,486 46

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it_o thus_o that_o church_n which_o have_v not_o the_o word_n of_o god_n true_o preach_v but_o false_o translate_v be_v no_o true_a church_n such_o be_v the_o church_n of_o england_n ergo._fw-la mr._n walker_n this_o be_v no_o proof_n of_o that_o proposition_n which_o i_o deny_v and_o which_o you_o do_v undertake_v to_o prove_v and_o therefore_o you_o show_v yourself_o ignorant_a in_o dispute_v and_o do_v commit_v that_o fallacy_n against_o the_o rule_n of_o logic_n which_o we_o call_v ignorationem_fw-la elenchi_fw-la mr._n smith_n it_o be_v a_o true_a syllogism_n and_o prove_v the_o main_a matter_n in_o controversy_n to_o wit_n that_o you_o have_v no_o true_a church_n mr._n walker_n but_o the_o thing_n which_o you_o be_v to_o prove_v be_v that_o the_o church_n which_o have_v not_o god_n word_n true_o preach_v and_o infallible_o deliver_v in_o every_o point_n at_o all_o time_n be_v not_o a_o true_a church_n this_o because_o you_o can_v tell_v how_o to_o prove_v as_o you_o do_v undertake_v therefore_o you_o flee_v to_o another_o new_a argument_n to_o which_o also_o i_o do_v answer_n as_o i_o do_v to_o the_o former_a first_o that_o the_o mayor_n proposition_n be_v false_a for_o a_o church_n which_o have_v the_o word_n of_o god_n false_o or_o erroneous_o translate_v in_o some_o part_n and_o so_o not_o true_o preach_v in_o every_o part_n may_v be_v a_o true_a church_n second_o if_o you_o mean_v false_o translate_v and_o not_o true_o preach_v of_o purpose_n and_o wilful_o than_o the_o minor_a be_v false_a for_o though_o the_o translation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n may_v fail_v and_o miss_v of_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o diverse_a place_n as_o all_o the_o best_a translation_n especial_o the_o vulgar_a latin_a approve_v by_o the_o romish_a church_n do_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o erroneous_o translate_v of_o purpose_n neither_o do_v all_o the_o preacher_n thereof_o build_v certain_o on_o such_o erroneous_a and_o false_a translation_n but_o many_o do_v discern_v they_o and_o preach_v and_o teach_v the_o true_a opposition_n and_o the_o church_n allow_v they_o so_o to_o do_v when_o they_o show_v good_a reason_n for_o their_o do_n from_o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o text._n mr._n smith_n but_o i_o will_v show_v plain_o by_o diverse_a example_n that_o you_o have_v diverse_a place_n of_o scripture_n false_o translate_v in_o your_o translation_n of_o set_a purpose_n and_o wilful_o contrary_a to_o the_o word_n of_o the_o hebrew_n text_n contrary_a also_o to_o the_o greek_a and_o latin_a receive_v in_o all_o age_n and_o church_n heretofore_o mr._n walker_n you_o threaten_v large_o in_o word_n which_o be_v but_o wind_n but_o indeed_o you_o can_v never_o perform_v that_o which_o you_o say_v let_v we_o see_v if_o you_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o part_n of_o our_o translation_n wherein_o one_o word_n be_v false_o translate_v of_o purpose_n i_o desire_v no_o more_o but_o to_o join_v a_o combat_n with_o you_o hand_n to_o hand_n about_o the_o hebrew_n text_n and_o about_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o translation_n and_o the_o agreement_n of_o it_o with_o the_o original_a mr._n smith_n i_o shall_v quick_o prove_v what_o i_o say_v and_o what_o you_o require_v first_o i_o have_v a_o plain_a example_n malachi_n 2._o 7._o where_o your_o translator_n read_v the_o word_n thus_o the_o priest_n lip_n shall_v keep_v knowledge_n and_o they_o shall_v seek_v the_o law_n at_o his_o mouth_n first_o this_o translation_n be_v false_a because_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o hebrew_n text_n wherein_o the_o word_n be_v jishmeru_n they_o shall_v keep_v and_o jebakshu_n they_o shall_v seek_v and_o not_o they_o shall_v keep_v nor_o they_o shall_v seek_v also_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o greek_a wherein_o the_o word_n be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o to_o the_o latin_a translation_n of_o st._n hierome_n which_o be_v custodient_fw-la and_o requirent_fw-la second_o it_o teach_v heresy_n and_o false_a doctrine_n namely_o that_o god_n priest_n &_o they_o who_o sit_v in_o moses_n chair_n may_v err_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n who_o command_v his_o disciple_n to_o hear_v all_o such_o as_o sit_v in_o moses_n chair_n because_o they_o shall_v not_o err_v but_o their_o lip_n shall_v preserve_v knowledge_n three_o it_o be_v thus_o corrupt_v of_o purpose_n to_o gainsay_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n who_o do_v succeed_v in_o the_o chair_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o to_o blind_v the_o people_n eye_n that_o they_o may_v not_o see_v the_o certainty_n and_o infallibility_n of_o judgement_n in_o the_o priest_n and_o pastor_n who_o sit_v in_o moses_n chair_n &_o how_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o seek_v the_o law_n at_o their_o mouth_n but_o may_v follow_v any_o upstart_n teacher_n which_o separate_v from_o the_o catholic_a church_n thus_o you_o see_v gentleman_n all_o how_o plain_o i_o have_v prove_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v of_o purpose_n corrupt_v the_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o be_v no_o true_a church_n mr._n walker_n indeed_o if_o that_o which_o you_o say_v be_v true_a you_o do_v speak_v something_o to_o the_o purpose_n but_o great_a word_n and_o protestation_n can_v make_v truth_n to_o be_v falsehood_n nor_o falsehood_n truth_n as_o for_o the_o example_n which_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o our_o english_a translation_n mal._n 2._o 7._o i_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o hebrew_n text_n yea_o i_o will_v easy_o prove_v both_o from_o the_o hebrew_a word_n which_o you_o have_v here_o show_v in_o the_o hebrew_n interlinear_n bible_n and_o also_o from_o the_o whole_a scope_n and_o all_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n that_o the_o english_a be_v the_o best_a translation_n &_o more_o perfect_a than_o either_o the_o greek_a or_o latin_a first_o though_o the_o hebrew_n word_n jishmeru_n &_o jebakshu_n be_v of_o the_o futuretense_n yet_o this_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o they_o shall_v be_v translate_v so_o in_o our_o tongue_n because_o you_o can_v but_o know_v if_o you_o have_v any_o skill_n in_o the_o hebrew_n tongue_n that_o the_o future_a tense_n in_o hebrew_n sometime_o simple_o and_o sometime_o by_o mean_n of_o vau_fw-fr conversive_a signify_v time_n either_o perfect_o or_o imperfect_o pass_v sometime_o it_o stand_v for_o the_o optative_a potential_a and_o subiunctive_a mood_n therefore_o our_o translation_n be_v not_o different_a nor_o irregular_a from_o the_o hebrew_n which_o be_v the_o original_n second_o it_o be_v never_o the_o purpose_n of_o god_n spirit_n in_o that_o place_n or_o by_o these_o word_n to_o teach_v that_o the_o law_n shall_v always_o be_v teach_v true_o and_o infallible_o by_o the_o priest_n and_o pastor_n who_o succeed_v moses_n or_o the_o apostle_n local_o in_o the_o church_n by_o a_o continue_a succession_n for_o that_o be_v a_o falsehood_n contrary_n to_o the_o experience_n of_o all_o age_n this_o very_a place_n confute_v it_o most_o evident_o for_o the_o priest_n unto_o who_o the_o prophet_n here_o speak_v in_o these_o place_n be_v levites_n and_o succeed_v aaron_n in_o the_o priesthood_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v depart_v out_o of_o the_o way_n they_o cause_v many_o to_o fall_v in_o the_o law_n by_o their_o corrupt_a gloss_n and_o their_o abuse_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o levi._n as_o it_o appear_v in_o the_o next_o word_n immediate_o follow_v yea_o some_o of_o they_o have_v sacrifice_v to_o idol_n as_o josephus_n show_v in_o his_o history_n of_o those_o time_n and_o therefore_o the_o lord_n threaten_v to_o corrupt_v their_o seed_n by_o cut_v off_o the_o male_a progeny_n and_o to_o cast_v the_o dung_n of_o their_o sacrifice_n in_o their_o face_n so_o that_o the_o priesthood_n of_o phineas_n shall_v by_o a_o sister_n marry_v into_o the_o tribe_n of_o judath_n to_o one_o of_o david_n line_n fall_v to_o christ_n who_o desended_a of_o she_o and_o he_o shall_v take_v it_o away_o to_o himself_o for_o ever_o as_o be_v intimate_v in_o the_o 3._o verse_n of_o the_o same_o chapter_n so_o than_o it_o be_v no_o heresy_n but_o god_n holy_a truth_n that_o priest_n succeed_v in_o the_o place_n and_o office_n of_o aaron_n and_o moses_n may_v err_v and_o have_v err_v moset_n his_o chair_n in_o which_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharisy_n do_v sit_v be_v the_o seat_n wherein_o they_o be_v wont_a to_o read_v the_o law_n of_o moses_n and_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o prophet_n to_o the_o people_n and_o therefore_o what_o they_o there_o do_v teach_v be_v true_a and_o christ_n command_v his_o disciple_n to_o obey_v it_o but_o in_o their_o own_o gloss_n and_o tradition_n they_o err_v damnable_o &_o make_v void_a god_n law_n 12._o and_o their_o doctrine_n our_o saviour_n call_v sour_a leaven_n and_o warn_v his_o disciple_n to_o beware_v of_o it_o three_o they_o who_o translate_v the_o word_n