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A15082 A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of DivĀ· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit* White, Francis, 1564?-1638.; Laud, William, 1573-1645.; Baylie, Richard, b. 1585 or 6, attributed name.; Cockson, Thomas, engraver.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641. 1624 (1624) STC 25382; ESTC S122241 841,497 706

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we_o think_v that_o we_o have_v receive_v christ_n make_v manifest_a if_o we_o have_v not_o also_o receive_v his_o church_n make_v manifest_a from_o hence_o nothing_o can_v be_v infer_v but_o that_o we_o receive_v the_o true_a church_n not_o only_o at_o one_o time_n or_o in_o one_o place_n but_o at_o all_o time_n and_o in_o all_o place_n where_o it_o be_v manifest_a and_o that_o christ_n be_v reveal_v and_o make_v manifest_a by_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o this_o doctrine_n must_v be_v preach_v although_o not_o at_o one_o time_n yet_o successive_o throughout_o the_o whole_a world_n but_o all_o this_o which_o s._n augustine_n speak_v be_v grant_v prove_v not_o that_o the_o true_a church_n shall_v be_v notorious_o eminent_a and_o visible_a at_o all_o time_n neither_o do_v this_o father_n say_v that_o christ_n can_v be_v manifest_a but_o by_o such_o a_o church_n only_o as_o can_v lineal_o derive_v her_o pedigree_n by_o record_n and_o table_n from_o the_o apostle_n 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part_n of_o they_o observe_v unity_n in_o the_o bond_n of_o peace_n in_o thing_n essential_a and_o in_o the_o common_a rule_n of_o faith_n and_o although_o the_o quality_n of_o teacher_n be_v a_o motive_n of_o credibilitie_n yet_o the_o power_n of_o persuasion_n depend_v proper_o upon_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n and_o they_o which_o disagree_v in_o other_o matter_n and_o with_o a_o common_a consent_n teach_v the_o main_a and_o principal_a doctrine_n of_o faith_n must_v therein_o be_v credit_v because_o of_o the_o prime_a author_n himself_o etc._n if_o humane_a frailty_n discord_n and_o error_n in_o some_o thing_n shall_v total_o discredit_v the_o authority_n of_o teacher_n the_o world_n must_v receive_v no_o divine_a verity_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o man_n because_o among_o man_n non_fw-la germinat_fw-la granum_fw-la veritatis_fw-la sine_fw-la palea_fw-la vanitatis_fw-la the_o good_a seed_n of_o verity_n spring_v not_o without_o some_o chaff_n of_o vanity_n vivis_fw-la s._n cyprian_n s._n augustine_n s._n hierome_n etc._n etc._n disagree_v in_o some_o thing_n and_o tertullian_n and_o origen_n have_v many_o error_n and_o therein_o be_v reprove_v by_o other_o and_o yet_o the_o rest_n of_o their_o doctrine_n wherein_o they_o teach_v true_o receive_v no_o prejudice_n from_o their_o contrary_a error_n the_o jesuit_n and_o dominican_n and_o other_o scholastics_n etc._n desire_v to_o be_v esteem_v credible_a witness_n and_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o small_a contention_n betwixt_o they_o concern_v sundry_a question_n although_o therefore_o some_o dissension_n be_v find_v among_o teacher_n yet_o their_o whole_a doctrine_n be_v not_o thereby_o make_v incredible_a neither_o be_v there_o perpetual_o in_o the_o true_a church_n a_o visible_a and_o perspicuous_a concord_n in_o all_o thing_n in_o the_o word_n ensue_v the_o adversary_n question_v doctor_n field_n because_o he_o affirm_v that_o protestant_n dissension_n be_v not_o real_a but_o apparent_a and_o verbal_a against_o this_o he_o affirm_v insectantur_fw-la that_o so_o long_o as_o contentioner_n rest_v unsatisfied_a and_o admit_v no_o reconciliation_n say_v that_o reconciler_n have_v miss_v of_o their_o meaning_n it_o be_v vain_a by_o distinction_n to_o colour_v their_o discord_n etc._n etc._n 〈◊〉_d first_o to_o 〈◊〉_d discord_n by_o distinction_n be_v no_o mean_n of_o true_a 〈◊〉_d but_o by_o 〈◊〉_d to_o discover_v and_o manifest_v that_o contentioner_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d other_o and_o whereas_o they_o speak_v diversty_a in_o 〈◊〉_d yet_o they_o maintain_v the_o same_o verity_n in_o substance_n this_o may_v be_v to_o good_a purpose_n second_o although_o a_o 〈◊〉_d be_v many_o time_n froward_a and_o will_v not_o for_o the_o present_a admit_v the_o charitable_a construction_n of_o moderate_a person_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o reconcile_v they_o exod._n 2._o 14._o act._n 7.27_o yet_o at_o the_o last_o unity_n may_v be_v effect_v by_o this_o mean_n and_o peaceable_a and_o moderate_a christian_n ought_v in_o the_o mean_a season_n to_o gather_v the_o fair_a lily_n of_o save_v verity_n grow_v amid_o the_o thorn_n of_o humane_a infirmity_n jesuit_fw-la five_o i_o infer_v that_o this_o church_n be_v universal_a spread_v over_o all_o nation_n that_o she_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v every_o where_o moral_o speak_v that_o the_o whole_a know_a world_n may_v take_v notice_n of_o she_o as_o of_o a_o worthy_a and_o credible_a witness_n of_o christian_a tradition_n howsoever_o her_o outward_a glory_n and_o splendour_n peace_n and_o tranquillity_n be_v sometime_o obscure_v in_o some_o place_n more_o or_o less_o and_o not_o ever_o in_o all_o place_n at_o once_o answer_n the_o church_n be_v univerfall_a first_o because_o of_o time_n for_o it_o continue_v successive_o in_o all_o age_n matth._n 28.20_o luc._n 1.33_o second_o in_o regard_n of_o person_n and_o place_n because_o no_o country_n nation_n state_n age_n or_o sex_n of_o people_n be_v exclude_v from_o be_v part_n of_o it_o galat._n 3.20_o act._n 10.34_o apoc._n 5.9_o three_o in_o respect_n of_o faith_n because_o divine_a verity_n constitutive_a and_o which_o give_v be_v to_o the_o true_a church_n continue_v throughout_o all_o age_n 1._o pet._n 1.25_o revel_v 14.6_o and_o be_v find_v in_o all_o the_o part_n of_o the_o true_a church_n but_o notwithstanding_o this_o the_o true_a church_n be_v not_o perpetual_o universal_a in_o regard_n of_o actual_a amplitude_n and_o diffusion_n of_o visible_a congregation_n throughout_o all_o nation_n and_o inhabit_v country_n of_o the_o world_n etc._n for_o it_o may_v in_o some_o age_n in_o actu_fw-la exercito_fw-la and_o in_o regard_n of_o actual_a residence_n remain_v only_o in_o a_o few_o country_n and_o cardinal_n bellarmine_n mundo_fw-la grant_v that_o if_o one_o sole_a province_n of_o the_o world_n shall_v retain_v true_a faith_n yet_o the_o church_n may_v then_o be_v true_o and_o proper_o call_v universal_a if_o it_o can_v manifest_o be_v show_v that_o the_o same_o be_v one_o with_o that_o church_n which_o be_v once_o universal_o spread_v over_o the_o world_n and_o although_o deiure_v by_o right_a and_o according_a to_o the_o divine_a precept_n the_o true_a church_n shall_v at_o all_o time_n remain_v and_o continue_v in_o those_o region_n where_o it_o be_v once_o plant_v yet_o it_o happen_v by_o the_o malice_n and_o iniquity_n of_o man_n that_o those_o place_n which_o once_o be_v a_o sanctuary_n of_o holiness_n be_v afterward_o change_v into_o the_o habitation_n of_o satan_n aliena_fw-la and_o into_o a_o cage_n of_o unclean_a bird_n the_o jesuit_n perceive_v that_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o defend_v a_o perpetual_a actual_a universality_n of_o the_o church_n present_v unto_o we_o a_o imaginary_a universality_n his_o word_n be_v she_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v every_o where_o moral_o speak_v etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v moral_o speak_v the_o church_n can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v where_o it_o be_v altogether_o unknown_a and_o where_o no_o mean_n be_v use_v or_o action_n perform_v which_o be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v it_o know_v a_o king_n may_v moral_o be_v say_v to_o be_v in_o every_o part_n of_o his_o kingdom_n operatur_fw-la because_o his_o law_n minister_n and_o government_n be_v extend_v throughout_o all_o his_o kingdom_n and_o king_n richard_n the_o first_o when_o he_o be_v in_o syria_n 1._o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v moral_o in_o england_n but_o the_o true_a church_n in_o many_o age_n have_v no_o commerce_n with_o infidel_n in_o thing_n spiritual_a mediate_a or_o immediate_a the_o faith_n preach_v and_o authority_n thereof_o be_v altogether_o unknown_a to_o many_o people_n to_o wit_n to_o the_o inhabitant_n of_o america_n for_o 1400._o year_n to_o many_o other_o nation_n of_o africa_n and_o europe_n for_o 600._o year_n etc._n etc._n and_o many_o people_n which_o hear_v the_o fame_n of_o christian_n in_o general_a as_o they_o do_v of_o the_o jew_n have_v no_o mean_n to_o distinguish_v orthodox_n believer_n from_o heretic_n and_o they_o which_o understand_v not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o true_a church_n can_v take_v notice_n of_o she_o as_o of_o a_o worthy_a and_o credible_a witness_n of_o divine_a tradition_n jesuit_fw-la a_o truth_n so_o clear_a that_o it_o may_v be_v evident_o prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n that_o even_o in_o antichrists_n day_n the_o church_n 8._o shall_v be_v visible_o universal_a for_o she_o shall_v then_o be_v every_o where_o persecute_v which_o can_v not_o be_v except_o she_o be_v every_o where_o visible_a and_o conspicuous_a even_o to_o the_o wicked_a answer_n your_o former_a proposition_n concern_v the_o perpetual_a local_a universality_n of_o the_o church_n be_v as_o clear_v as_o the_o sunshine_n at_o midnight_n and_o the_o argument_n whereby_o you_o labour_v to_o prove_v it_o be_v of_o no_o force_n first_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o true_a church_n in_o the_o reign_n of_o antichrist_n shall_v be_v visible_o universal_a yet_o it_o be_v inconsequent_a ergo_fw-la the_o true_a church_n be_v perpetual_o and_o in_o all_o age_n visible_o universal_a separable_a accident_n be_v sometime_o present_a to_o the_o subject_n and_o sometime_o absent_a but_o visible_a universality_n be_v a_o separable_a accident_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o state_n of_o the_o true_a church_n in_o the_o first_o hundred_o year_n dilatationis_fw-la second_o the_o word_n of_o saint_n john_n apoc._n 20._o 8._o be_v and_o when_o the_o thousand_o year_n shall_v be_v consummate_a satan_n shall_v be_v loose_v out_o of_o his_o prison_n and_o shall_v go_v forth_o and_o seduce_v the_o nation_n which_o be_v upon_o the_o four_o corner_n of_o the_o earth_n gog_n and_o magog_n and_o shall_v gather_v they_o into_o battle_n the_o number_n of_o who_o be_v as_o the_o sand_n of_o the_o sea_n in_o this_o prophecy_n nothing_o be_v deliver_v which_o do_v express_o or_o by_o consequence_n argue_v the_o visible_a universality_n of_o the_o true_a church_n in_o all_o age_n 1._o the_o nation_n which_o be_v upon_o the_o four_o corner_n of_o the_o earth_n seduce_v by_o
grievous_a penalty_n to_o depart_v out_o of_o babylon_n and_o spiritual_a sodom_n apoc._n 18.4_o and_o chap._n 11.8_o saint_n paul_n speak_v of_o such_o as_o teach_v diverse_a doctrine_n from_o the_o apostle_n say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d depart_v from_o such_o from_o their_o assembly_n and_o church_n read_v act_n 19_o 8._o 1._o corinth_n 10._o 14._o 2._o cor._n 6._o 14_o 15_o 17._o hos._n 10._o 17._o the_o roman_a church_n in_o those_o thing_n wherein_o we_o depart_v from_o it_o be_v shameful_o corrupt_v it_o do_v not_o only_o forsake_v burr_n deprave_v and_o persecute_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n the_o leprosy_n thereof_o be_v incurable_a for_o it_o will_v not_o judge_v itself_o nor_o be_v reprove_v by_o other_o nor_o reform_v the_o least_o error_n but_o desperate_o follow_v the_o canon_n si_fw-mi papa_n &c_n &c_n iudicandus_fw-la and_o none_o may_v enjoy_v life_n and_o breath_n within_o she_o precinct_n which_o will_v not_o obey_v her_o tradition_n regem_fw-la these_o romulean_n unless_o they_o be_v blind_v like_o elymas_n can_v not_o be_v ignorant_a at_o least_o of_o some_o of_o their_o error_n and_o corruption_n but_o they_o choose_v rather_o in_o their_o tridentine_a synod_n to_o proclaim_v and_o propugne_v apert_o or_o covert_o all_o their_o ancient_a forgery_n than_o to_o compassionate_v the_o distress_a and_o 〈◊〉_d christian_n world_n by_o mitigate_a or_o condescend_v according_a to_o truth_n in_o the_o small_a matter_n it_o have_v be_v most_o facile_a for_o they_o without_o any_o prejudice_n or_o damage_n to_o themselves_o to_o have_v permit_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o holy_a eucharist_n in_o both_o kind_n the_o public_a 〈◊〉_d of_o god_n in_o a_o know_a and_o understand_v language_n ei_fw-la to_o have_v abolish_v the_o adoration_n of_o image_n etc._n etc._n but_o their_o luciferian_n pride_n and_o malice_n be_v so_o transcendent_a that_o they_o rather_o presume_v to_o obtrude_v new_a scandal_n upon_o the_o christian_a world_n than_o to_o use_v the_o least_o moderation_n for_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o ever_o since_o that_o synod_n they_o have_v proceed_v from_o evil_a to_o worse_o obscure_v and_o outface_v the_o truth_n with_o forgery_n and_o sophistry_n they_o have_v conspire_v against_o kingdom_n and_o state_n they_o have_v surpass_v profess_v infidel_n in_o perfidious_a stratagem_n and_o immane_a cruelty_n etc._n last_o whereas_o they_o expel_v we_o by_o excommunication_n and_o chase_v we_o away_o from_o they_o by_o persecution_n yet_o this_o roman_a advocate_n tax_v we_o of_o schism_n and_o apostasy_n never_o remember_v what_o s._n augustine_n long_o since_o deliver_v the_o sacrilege_n of_o schism_n be_v then_o commit_v when_o there_o be_v no_o just_a cause_n of_o separation_n separationis_fw-la or_o what_o some_o of_o his_o own_o part_n have_v say_v tabefierent_fw-la the_o sheep_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o be_v subject_a to_o any_o shepherd_n which_o be_v become_v a_o wolf_n or_o be_v adverse_a to_o the_o salvation_n of_o the_o flock_n jesuit_fw-la which_o also_o plain_o will_v appear_v to_o any_o man_n of_o understanding_n that_o cast_v upon_o she_o a_o impartial_a eye_n for_o be_v she_o not_o conspicuous_o one_o the_o professor_n thereof_o agree_v in_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n howsoever_o they_o differ_v about_o small_a undefined_a question_n answer_n external_a unity_n be_v find_v among_o infidel_n and_o the_o turk_n be_v more_o in_o number_n than_o papist_n never_o disagree_v among_o themselves_o touch_v matter_n of_o their_o religion_n shall_v we_o then_o say_v as_o the_o jesuit_n do_v it_o will_v plain_o appear_v to_o any_o man_n of_o understanding_n that_o cast_v his_o eye_n upon_o turkey_n that_o the_o same_o have_v verity_n because_o it_o be_v conspicuous_o one_o saint_n augustine_n say_v that_o jew_n heretic_n and_o infidel_n observe_v unity_n against_o unity_n 〈◊〉_d s._n bernard_n 15._o alia_fw-la est_fw-la unitas_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la alia_fw-la facinorosorum_fw-la the_o unity_n of_o saint_n be_v one_o thing_n and_o the_o unity_n of_o wicked_a man_n deceiver_n another_o s._n hilary_n 28._o vnitas_fw-la fidei_fw-la &_o unitas_fw-la perfidiae_fw-la there_o be_v unity_n of_o faith_n and_o there_o be_v likewise_o perfidious_a and_o faithless_a unity_n s._n gregory_n say_v 24._o that_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n shall_v cleave_v together_o like_o the_o scale_n of_o leviathan_n therefore_o because_o external_a unity_n be_v in_o itself_o a_o thing_n common_a and_o jew_n and_o mahometist_n enjoy_v the_o same_o more_o apparent_o than_o many_o christian_n our_o adversary_n must_v prove_v that_o his_o church_n have_v verity_n before_o his_o argument_n take_v from_o external_a unity_n can_v be_v of_o any_o force_n neither_o be_v papistical_a unity_n so_o entire_a and_o absolute_a as_o this_o man_n glori_v for_o papall_v disagree_v both_o in_o doctrine_n and_o manner_n they_o differ_v concern_v the_o supreme_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n whether_o it_o be_v in_o the_o pope_n or_o in_o the_o general_n council_n possit_fw-la they_o differ_v in_o the_o matter_n of_o freewill_n and_o grace_n they_o differ_v concern_v the_o manner_n of_o the_o conception_n of_o the_o virgin_n marie_n there_o be_v three_o opinion_n among_o they_o concern_v the_o temporal_a dominion_n of_o pope_n some_o say_v he_o have_v direct_v temporal_a power_n alij_fw-la some_o say_v indirect_a 12._o some_o say_v he_o have_v none_o 1._o but_o by_o the_o free_a donation_n of_o prince_n and_o that_o prince_n be_v evil_o advise_v in_o yield_v he_o so_o much_o intromitteret_fw-la and_o modern_a pope_n disagree_v with_o the_o ancient_a concern_v the_o dignity_n of_o univerfall_a bishop_n adoration_n of_o image_n transubstantiation_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o the_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n also_o they_o themselves_o complain_v of_o grievous_a hatred_n and_o discord_n reign_v general_o among_o they_o and_o some_o of_o they_o say_v there_o be_v great_a concord_n among_o gentile_n christianos_n and_o when_o they_o colour_v these_o palpable_a dissension_n pretend_v that_o they_o be_v ready_a to_o submit_v themselves_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o pope_n first_o this_o judge_n and_o umpire_n be_v many_o time_n a_o peace-breaker_n bergom_n and_o no_o peacemaker_n villam_fw-la a_o ishmael_n in_o the_o christian_a world_n who_o hand_n be_v against_o every_o man_n and_o every_o man_n hand_n be_v against_o he_o second_o unity_n which_o be_v found_v on_o blind_a obedience_n be_v only_o a_o unity_n of_o policy_n and_o not_o of_o true_a faith_n three_o this_o submission_n make_v not_o actual_a concord_n and_o miserable_a dissension_n both_o intestine_a and_o foreign_a at_o home_o and_o abroad_o rage_v between_o pope_n and_o prince_n and_o between_o one_o popish_a faction_n and_o another_o the_o guelph_n and_o gibelline_n the_o papall_v and_o imperial_n be_v as_o famous_a in_o history_n for_o their_o discord_n as_o the_o son_n of_o cadmus_n and_o when_o papistry_n be_v most_o potent_a the_o christian_a world_n be_v most_o distract_v jesuit_fw-la apparent_o universal_a so_o spread_v over_o the_o world_n with_o credit_n and_o authority_n that_o whole_a mankind_n may_v take_v sufficient_a notice_n of_o she_o and_o her_o doctrine_n for_o the_o embrace_v thereof_o answer_n the_o roman_a be_v a_o particular_a church_n and_o not_o universal_a it_o be_v only_o a_o unsound_a member_n of_o the_o whole_a and_o not_o the_o whole_a rom._n 1._o 6._o s._n paul_n say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d among_o who_o be_v you_o also_o but_o a_o church_n which_o be_v but_o one_o among_o the_o rest_n can_v be_v the_o whole_a and_o universal_a church_n it_o be_v as_o absurd_a to_o say_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o universal_a church_n as_o to_o affirm_v that_o england_n be_v the_o universal_a world_n if_o the_o universal_a church_n be_v take_v proper_o or_o absolute_o it_o comprehend_v both_o the_o triumphant_a and_o militant_a church_n augustine_n enchir._n cap._n 56._o and_o 61._o covarwias_n resol_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 14._o if_o it_o be_v take_v restrictive_o it_o be_v the_o whole_a church_n militant_a of_o each_o age._n if_o catholic_a be_v take_v for_o that_o which_o be_v orthodoxal_a in_o faith_n and_o which_o hold_v no_o division_n with_o the_o common_a body_n of_o christianity_n according_a to_o which_o notion_n the_o father_n term_n particular_a church_n catholic_a 25._o than_o neither_o be_v this_o title_n proper_a to_o the_o roman_a church_n alone_o neither_o can_v papist_n just_o assume_v the_o name_n of_o catholic_a until_o they_o have_v prove_v their_o faith_n to_o be_v orthodoxal_a and_o justify_v themselves_o from_o be_v the_o author_n of_o discord_n in_o the_o christian_a world_n and_o to_o answer_v that_o which_o follow_v although_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v spread_v over_o sundry_a part_n of_o the_o world_n because_o some_o people_n profess_v the_o roman_a faith_n travail_n or_o reside_v in_o many_o country_n and_o exercise_v their_o religion_n where_o they_o travail_n or_o live_v yet_o this_o
it_o have_v be_v a_o sacred_a image_n of_o christ_n or_o of_o some_o saint_n and_o which_o be_v worship_v by_o some_o christian_n new_o convert_v from_o paganism_n with_o heathenish_a honour_n but_o if_o this_o gloss_n have_v be_v likely_a it_o be_v very_o improbable_a that_o cardinal_n bellarmine_n 9_o and_o some_o other_o 341._o also_o who_o have_v write_v since_o vasques_n will_v have_v esteem_v it_o so_o light_o and_o epiphanius_n his_o text_n appendi_fw-la will_v not_o bear_v this_o exposition_n for_o he_o say_v that_o at_o the_o time_n when_o he_o write_v that_o epistle_n he_o do_v not_o remember_v to_o wit_n perfect_o who_o image_n this_o be_v but_o if_o epiphanius_n himself_o do_v not_o remember_v who_o image_n it_o be_v whether_o of_o christ_n or_o of_o a_o saint_n or_o of_o some_o other_o man_n how_o know_v this_o jesuit_n that_o it_o be_v the_o image_n of_o a_o profane_a person_n beside_o if_o it_o have_v be_v the_o picture_n of_o some_o profane_a person_n or_o pagan_n superstitious_o 100_o worship_v wherefore_o be_v epiphanius_n silent_a in_o relate_v hereof_o consider_v that_o the_o bare_a narration_n of_o so_o gross_a a_o fact_n will_v most_o apparent_o have_v justify_v the_o whole_a proceed_n but_o he_o affirm_v only_o in_o defence_n of_o his_o action_n that_o enter_v into_o a_o oratory_n and_o there_o espy_v a_o veil_n or_o hang_n whereon_o be_v figure_v the_o image_n of_o a_o man_n which_o he_o do_v not_o when_o he_o write_v the_o epistle_n remember_v whether_o it_o be_v christ_n his_o picture_n or_o any_o other_o of_o the_o saint_n he_o cut_v the_o same_o in_o piece_n and_o withal_o command_v that_o no_o such_o paint_a veil_n shall_v hereafter_o be_v suffer_v to_o hang_v in_o the_o church_n jesuit_fw-la wherefore_o see_v this_o minister_n so_o much_o esteem_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n say_v what_o he_o can_v devise_v in_o proof_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n change_v about_o image_n bring_v nothing_o but_o manifest_a falsehood_n so_o many_o in_o so_o few_o line_n any_o indifferent_a man_n may_v conclude_v that_o worship_n of_o image_n have_v continue_v without_o change_n ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n for_o if_o any_o change_n in_o such_o matter_n as_o this_o have_v be_v make_v it_o will_v have_v be_v most_o evident_a when_o and_o by_o who_o so_o great_a a_o novelty_n be_v introduce_v answer_n the_o minister_n who_o you_o deprave_v be_v no_o otherwise_o esteem_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o 〈◊〉_d a_o ordinary_a student_n and_o professor_n of_o theology_n neither_o be_v his_o authority_n in_o handle_v of_o controversy_n great_a than_o the_o weight_n of_o his_o argument_n and_o disputation_n shall_v deserve_v and_o your_o hyperbole_n say_v that_o 〈◊〉_d he_o bring_v nothing_o but_o manifest_a falsehood_n be_v rather_o a_o undigested_a crudity_n of_o rail_a word_n than_o a_o true_a censure_n of_o he_o against_o who_o you_o be_v better_a able_a to_o declaim_v than_o dispute_n but_o your_o threadbare_a argument_n whereby_o you_o labour_v to_o prove_v that_o worship_n of_o image_n have_v continue_v without_o change_n ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n because_o it_o will_v have_v be_v most_o evident_a when_o and_o by_o who_o so_o great_a a_o novelty_n be_v introduce_v have_v at_o the_o least_o three_o lame_a foot_n first_o the_o antecedent_n be_v false_a for_o it_o be_v evident_a to_o judicious_a man_n when_o and_o by_o who_o this_o novelty_n be_v bring_v in_o as_o for_o those_o which_o be_v blind_v with_o superstition_n and_o have_v a_o fear_a conscience_n nothing_o be_v evident_a to_o such_o esse_fw-la second_o this_o argument_n presuppose_v that_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v general_o practise_v among_o christian_n in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o in_o the_o primative_a church_n for_o otherwise_o why_o shall_v protestant_n be_v bind_v explicit_o to_o assign_v the_o time_n of_o alteration_n if_o this_o practice_n be_v not_o apostolical_a and_o primative_a the_o succeed_a practice_n whensoever_o it_o begin_v and_o whether_o we_o can_v assign_v or_o not_o assign_v when_o and_o by_o who_o make_v not_o the_o same_o lawful_a three_o ab_fw-la ignoratione_n rei_fw-la ad_fw-la negationem_fw-la non_fw-la sequitur_fw-la it_o be_v inconsequent_a to_o argue_v protestant_n can_v out_o of_o humane_a history_n assign_v the_o moment_n of_o time_n when_o worship_n of_o image_n first_o begin_v to_o be_v practise_v in_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la this_o practice_n be_v not_o a_o innovation_n for_o papist_n can_v assign_v the_o moment_n of_o time_n when_o heathen_n first_o begin_v to_o worship_n baal_n and_o ashtaroth_n or_o when_o the_o progenitor_n of_o abraham_n begin_v to_o serve_v other_o god_n josh._n 24._o 2._o and_o yet_o they_o will_v judge_v the_o consequence_n to_o be_v absurd_a which_o shall_v infer_v because_o papist_n can_v assign_v when_o and_o by_o who_o such_o innovation_n begin_v therefore_o they_o be_v perpetual_a we_o expect_v divine_a revelation_n to_o warrant_v adoration_n of_o image_n for_o unless_o that_o appear_v the_o same_o can_v be_v a_o necessary_a duty_n in_o religion_n but_o the_o jesuit_n will_v ambush_n himself_o in_o the_o labyrinth_n of_o historical_a discourse_n which_o can_v produce_v only_o humane_a belief_n 〈◊〉_d when_o it_o be_v plain_a and_o certain_a but_o be_v also_o uncertain_a and_o not_o faithful_o keep_v it_o may_v perplex_v and_o deceive_v and_o beget_v contention_n whereas_o on_o the_o contrary_a divine_a revelation_n settle_v the_o conscience_n and_o make_v the_o truth_n manifest_a jesuit_fw-la jesuit_o 3._o the_o place_n of_o exodus_fw-la and_o deuteronomie_n with_o no_o probability_n urge_v against_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n by_o protestant_n that_o make_v they_o against_o image_n worship_n protestant_n bring_v in_o the_o place_n of_o exodus_fw-la chap._n 20._o ver_fw-la 4._o &_o 5._o and_o of_o deuteron_n cap._n 5._o ver_fw-la 6._o &_o 7._o thou_o shall_v not_o have_v false_a god_n before_o i_o thou_o shall_v not_o make_v to_o thyself_o a_o grave_a image_n nor_o any_o likeness_n either_o in_o the_o heaven_n above_o or_o on_o the_o earth_n below_o or_o of_o thing_n that_o be_v under_o water_n or_o under_o ground_n thou_o shall_v not_o adore_v nor_o worship_v they_o which_o place_n i_o wonder_v they_o can_v think_v strong_a enough_o to_o overthrow_v a_o custom_n in_o which_o the_o rule_n of_o nature_n the_o principle_n of_o christianity_n the_o perpetual_a tradition_n of_o god_n church_n do_v settle_v christian_n for_o this_o place_n make_v against_o they_o or_o not_o against_o we_o which_o i_o prove_v thus_o the_o image_n we_o be_v forbid_v to_o worship_n we_o be_v forbid_v to_o make_v thou_o shall_v not_o make_v to_o thyself_o any_o grave_a image_n thou_o shall_v not_o adore_v they_o nor_o worship_v they_o contrariwise_o the_o jmage_n we_o may_v lawful_o make_v we_o may_v also_o lawful_o adore_v or_o worship_n if_o they_o be_v image_n of_o venerable_a and_o adorable_a person_n but_o the_o image_n which_o we_o worship_v of_o christ_n protestant_n make_v yea_o some_o to_o wit_n lutheran_n set_v they_o up_o in_o their_o church_n and_o they_o be_v image_n of_o a_o adoreable_a person_n ergo_fw-la they_o can_v condemn_v our_o adoration_n of_o jmage_n except_o likewise_o they_o condemn_v their_o make_v they_o as_o against_o god_n law_n answer_n the_o place_n of_o scripture_n allege_v by_o protestant_n against_o adoration_n of_o image_n exod._n 20._o 5._o deut._n 5.8_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o moral_a law_n summistae_fw-la therefore_o if_o the_o worship_v of_o image_n be_v prohibit_v unto_o the_o israelite_n in_o the_o same_o it_o be_v also_o forbid_a christian_n and_o to_o worship_v image_n be_v unlawful_a in_o the_o state_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n the_o adversary_n wonder_v why_o protestant_n shall_v think_v that_o the_o 〈◊〉_d place_n of_o exodus_fw-la and_o 〈◊〉_d be_v strong_a enough_o to_o overthrow_v image_n worship_n be_v 〈◊〉_d upon_o 〈◊〉_d of_o nature_n christianity_n and_o tradition_n first_o this_o latter_a clause_n be_v only_o a_o vain_a ostentation_n and_o repetition_n of_o that_o which_o be_v former_o confute_v second_o the_o reason_n whereupon_o he_o ground_v his_o confident_a speech_n say_v which_o place_n i_o wonder_v they_o can_v think_v strong_a enough_o be_v wondrous_a weak_a as_o it_o will_v appear_v by_o the_o resolution_n and_o answer_v of_o his_o objection_n this_o argument_n in_o form_n be_v if_o all_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v prohibit_v exod._n 20._o etc._n etc._n then_o all_o make_v they_o be_v also_o prohibit_v for_o the_o same_o precept_n which_o say_v thou_o shall_v not_o bow_v down_o to_o they_o nor_o worship_v they_o say_v in_o the_o former_a part_n thou_o shall_v not_o make_v to_o thyself_o any_o grave_a image_n etc._n etc._n but_o all_o make_n of_o image_n be_v not_o prohibit_v exod._n 20._o because_o protestant_n themselves_o allow_v some_o kind_n of_o image_n make_v ergo_fw-la all_o worship_n of_o
the_o one_o part_n from_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n because_o of_o the_o institution_n and_o signification_n thus_o our_o adversary_n be_v confute_v touch_v pope_n leo_n and_o gelasius_n by_o a_o most_o intelligent_a and_o learned_a doctor_n of_o his_o own_o society_n jesuit_fw-la and_o as_o this_o be_v certain_a and_o grant_v on_o our_o part_n so_o it_o be_v no_o less_o certain_a that_o the_o primitive_a church_n do_v never_o practice_v the_o use_n of_o the_o cup_n as_o pertain_v to_o the_o essential_a integrity_n of_o the_o sacrament_n or_o as_o command_v by_o divine_a precept_n but_o think_v the_o recoive_n under_o one_o and_o both_o kind_n a_o thing_n indifferent_a this_o may_v be_v prove_v by_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o time_n since_o christ_n 〈◊〉_d from_o our_o day_n upward_o whence_o i_o gather_v five_o argument_n first_o be_v the_o confession_n of_o our_o adversary_n among_o who_o a_o bohemian_n protestant_n do_v profess_v that_o have_v 112._o the_o fear_n of_o god_n before_o his_o eye_n be_v dare_v not_o censure_v the_o roman_a church_n of_o heresy_n in_o this_o point_n hospinian_n write_v that_o some_o protestant_n confess_v that_o whole_a christ_n be_v real_o present_a exhibit_v and_o receive_v under_o every_o kind_n and_o therefore_o under_o the_o only_a form_n of_o bread_n and_o that_o they_o do_v not_o judge_v those_o to_o do_v evil_a that_o communicate_v under_o one_o kind_n melancthon_n as_o to_o eat_v or_o not_o to_o eat_v swine_n flesh_n 78._o be_v place_v in_o our_o power_n and_o the_v indifferent_a so_o say_v he_o i_o judge_v of_o the_o eucharist_n that_o they_o fin_n not_o who_o know_v and_o believe_v this_o liberty_n do_v use_v either_o part_n of_o the_o figne_n and_o luther_n they_o fin_n not_o against_o christ_n who_o use_v euchar_n one_o kind_n see_v christ_n do_v not_o command_v to_o use_v it_o but_o have_v leave_v it_o to_o the_o will_n of_o every_o one_o and_o hospinian_n allege_v 12._o luther_n affirm_v it_o be_v not_o needful_a to_o give_v both_o kind_n but_o the_o one_o alone_o suffice_v the_o church_n have_v power_n of_o ordain_v only_o one_o and_o the_o people_n ought_v to_o be_v content_a therewith_o if_o it_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o church_n but_o these_o testimony_n though_o they_o may_v serve_v to_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o a_o clamorous_a adversary_n yet_o be_v they_o not_o sufficient_a to_o satisfy_v any_o judicious_a man_n in_o regard_n their_o author_n be_v man_n most_o uncertain_a and_o various_a in_o their_o doctrine_n about_o religion_n now_o aver_n as_o orthodox_n and_o divine_a truth_n what_o soon_o after_o they_o fall_v to_o abhor_v as_o heretical_a and_o impious_a answer_n concern_v luther_n melancthon_n johannes_n perzibram_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v that_o your_o benefactor_n coccius_n to_o who_o you_o be_v perpetual_o indebt_v for_o your_o reading_n allege_v some_o such_o say_n out_o of_o these_o author_n but_o how_o true_o it_o be_v uncertain_a for_o in_o the_o ordinary_a edition_n i_o find_v the_o contrary_n deliver_v by_o they_o gospel_n make_v a_o book_n of_o recognition_n and_o it_o be_v more_o seemly_a for_o yourself_o to_o revoke_v your_o error_n than_o to_o persist_v in_o a_o blind_a and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o truth_n jesuit_fw-la i_o add_v therefore_o second_o the_o definition_n of_o the_o three_o general_a counsel_n celebrate_v before_o the_o breach_n of_o luther_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n the_o council_n of_o florence_n wherein_o 41._o be_v present_v the_o grecian_a and_o armenian_a bishop_n where_o 〈◊〉_d be_v define_v that_o christ_n be_v whole_a under_o each_o 〈◊〉_d the_o council_n of_o 〈◊〉_d though_o they_o allow_v the_o use_n 30._o of_o the_o cup_n 〈◊〉_d the_o 〈◊〉_d define_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o communion_n under_o one_o kind_n the_o council_n of_o constance_n give_v 13._o example_n unto_o both_o these_o former_a counsel_n be_v the_o first_o that_o define_v this_o truth_n answer_n you_o add_v nothing_o of_o any_o worth_n for_o the_o counsel_n of_o constance_n and_o basil_n be_v in_o your_o own_o eye_n uncanonical_a and_o he_o adlesse_a and_o be_v reject_v by_o yourselves_o in_o diverse_a article_n nt_v and_o when_o you_o prove_v which_o will_v be_v ad_fw-la calendas_fw-la graecas_fw-la that_o the_o three_o synod_n name_v by_o you_o be_v general_a counsel_n it_o shall_v be_v grant_v that_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n be_v not_o destitute_a of_o general_a synodical_a late_a testimony_n jesuit_fw-la the_o three_o argument_n be_v the_o receive_v and_o allow_v general_a custom_n of_o the_o church_n which_o spontaneous_o even_o before_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n do_v abstain_v from_o the_o cup_n as_o the_o say_a council_n do_v acknowledge_v which_o may_v be_v prove_v by_o the_o testimony_n of_o many_o that_o live_v before_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n yea_o alexander_n halensis_n who_o live_v two_o 3._o hundred_o year_n before_o the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o constance_n say_v that_o almost_o every_o where_o lay_v man_n receive_v under_o the_o sole_a for_o i_o of_o bread_n and_o venerable_a bede_n do_v signify_v 14._o that_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n ever_o since_o the_o first_o 〈◊〉_d of_o she_o under_o s._n gregory_n be_v use_v 〈◊〉_d under_o one_o kind_n for_o the_o laity_n which_o can_v never_o have_v enter_v into_o the_o church_n without_o be_v 〈◊〉_d and_o mark_v as_o a_o heresy_n have_v not_o the_o church_n ever_o hold_v communion_n under_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n as_o a_o thing_n of_o indifferency_n answer_n the_o greek_a church_n always_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n as_o yourselves_o acknowledge_v 482._o therefore_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n be_v at_o no_o time_n a_o universal_a custom_n also_o vasques_n durasse_n the_o jesuit_n say_v we_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o even_o in_o the_o latin_a church_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n be_v use_v and_o have_v continuance_n until_o the_o age_n of_o thomas_n aquinas_n alexander_n de_fw-fr hales_n affirm_v actualis_fw-la there_o be_v more_o merit_n and_o power_n of_o grace_n in_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n than_o in_o one_o last_o you_o be_v guide_v with_o that_o spirit_n which_o be_v mention_v 3._o king_n 22._o v_o 21._o when_o you_o affirm_v that_o venerable_a bede_n say_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n ever_o since_o her_o first_o conversion_n under_o s._n gregory_n communion_n under_o one_o kind_n be_v in_o use_n for_o the_o laity_n first_o no_o such_o report_n be_v find_v in_o this_o author_n second_o in_o one_o of_o the_o testimony_n cite_v by_o yourself_o the_o contrary_a be_v affirm_v for_o the_o two_o apostle_n which_o be_v report_v to_o have_v speak_v to_o a_o certain_a young_a lad_n say_v as_o follow_v subleveris_fw-la you_o must_v wait_v until_o the_o mass_n or_o communion_n be_v end_v and_o have_v then_o receive_v the_o holy_a food_n of_o the_o lord_n body_n and_o blood_n you_o shall_v be_v deliver_v from_o your_o infirmity_n by_o death_n and_o exalt_v to_o celestial_a joy_n jesuit_fw-la the_o four_o argument_n be_v draw_v from_o many_o sign_n and_o token_n that_o the_o primitive_a church_n do_v sometime_o use_v communion_n under_o one_o kind_n first_o the_o 〈◊〉_d receive_v under_o the_o only_a form_n of_o bread_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o the_o history_n of_o serapion_n relate_v by_o eusebius_n and_o the_o grecian_n ambrosij_n at_o this_o day_n though_o they_o give_v the_o cup_n to_o the_o communicant_n in_o the_o church_n yet_o to_o the_o sick_a they_o send_v the_o sacrament_n under_o one_o kind_n yea_o s._n ambrose_n as_o paulinus_n relate_v in_o his_o life_n at_o his_o death_n receive_v the_o sacrament_n under_o the_o sole_a form_n of_o bread_n and_o straight_o after_o the_o receive_n thereof_o give_v up_o his_o soul_n answer_n first_o touch_v serapion_n relate_v by_o eusebius_n he_o receive_v both_o 36._o bread_n and_o wine_n for_o the_o lad_n which_o bring_v the_o portion_n of_o the_o eucharist_n be_v command_v by_o the_o priest_n which_o send_v he_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o sop_n the_o bread_n into_o wine_n and_o be_v moisten_v to_o put_v it_o into_o the_o old_a man_n mouth_n and_o this_o be_v perform_v according_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o lad_n wet_v or_o moisten_v the_o portion_n of_o bread_n which_o he_o receive_v of_o the_o priest_n and_o infuse_v the_o same_o into_o serapion_n the_o old_a man_n mouth_n and_o the_o council_n of_o tower_n allege_v by_o burchardus_fw-la and_o iuo_o aeternam_fw-la report_v the_o manner_n and_o reason_n of_o dip_v the_o bread_n in_o this_o sort_n we_o command_v that_o the_o eucharist_n which_o be_v 〈◊〉_d to_o be_v give_v sick_a person_n shall_v be_v dip_v into_o the_o blood_n of_o our_o lord_n that_o the_o priest_n may_v say_v in_o truth_n the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n profit_v thou_o to_o life_n eternal_a which_o dip_v show_v that_o they_o think_v it_o not_o sufficient_a to_o
give_v the_o sick_a only_o the_o bread_n second_o if_o paulinus_n of_o who_o erasmus_n ludum_fw-la say_v it_o be_v the_o same_o craftsman_n which_o have_v corrupt_v so_o many_o thing_n in_o the_o write_n of_o s._n hierome_n and_o s._n augustine_n report_v true_o touch_v s._n ambrose_n this_o prove_v not_o that_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n be_v in_o ordinary_a ufe_n but_o that_o s._n ambrose_n be_v speechless_a and_o without_o understanding_n and_o decease_a instant_o after_o the_o bread_n be_v put_v into_o his_o mouth_n spiritum_fw-la and_o consequent_o be_v prevent_v by_o death_n receive_v by_o reason_n of_o this_o accident_n one_o material_a part_n of_o the_o sacrament_n only_o jesuit_fw-la second_o it_o be_v a_o ancient_a custom_n in_o the_o church_n to_o 〈◊〉_d give_v the_o sacrament_n unto_o lay_n man_n especial_o unto_o eremites_n to_o be_v carry_v in_o most_o pure_a linen_n corporal_n home_n to_o their_o house_n to_o be_v take_v in_o the_o morning_n before_o all_o other_o meat_n but_o there_o be_v no_o sign_n or_o token_n in_o antiquity_n that_o the_o faithful_a together_o with_o the_o consecrate_a bread_n do_v carry_v away_o with_o they_o consecrate_a wine_n yea_o diverse_a history_n show_v the_o only_a form_n of_o bread_n be_v carry_v away_o and_o consequent_o that_o the_o church_n do_v not_o then_o esteem_v of_o communion_n 〈◊〉_d one_o kind_n as_o of_o a_o sacrilegious_a maym_v of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o protestant_n now_o do_v answer_n it_o be_v a_o ancient_a custom_n to_o send_v the_o communion_n to_o person_n absent_a in_o both_o kind_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o history_n of_o exuperius_n in_o s._n hierome_n 19_o and_o gregory_n nazianzen_n 〈◊〉_d say_v of_o his_o sister_n gorgonia_n if_o her_o hand_n have_v lay_v up_o any_o portion_n of_o the_o type_n or_o token_n of_o the_o precious_a body_n and_o of_o the_o blood_n etc._n etc._n and_o as_o touch_v sick_a person_n why_o shall_v we_o not_o judge_v that_o the_o same_o order_n and_o proportion_n be_v keep_v in_o send_v the_o sacrament_n to_o they_o at_o their_o house_n as_o be_v observe_v when_o sick_a person_n come_v to_o the_o communion_n table_n or_o altar_n in_o the_o church_n jesuit_fw-la three_o it_o be_v a_o ancient_a custom_n in_o the_o grecian_a church_n to_o consecrate_v the_o holy_a eucharist_n on_o saturdaye_n and_o 52._o sunday_n and_o on_o the_o other_o day_n of_o the_o week_n to_o communicate_v exit_fw-la praesanctificatis_fw-la of_o the_o praesanctified_a form_n sy_n hat_n be_v consecrate_v on_o the_o saturday_n or_o sunday_n before_o now_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a that_o they_o do_v consecrate_v wine_n to_o endure_v five_o or_o six_o day_n long_o for_o fear_v special_o in_o such_o hot_a country_n the_o same_o shall_v grow_v sour_a wherefore_o for_o the_o most_o part_n they_o do_v communicate_v under_o one_o kind_n answer_n the_o office_n of_o the_o greek_a church_n make_v mention_n of_o the_o sacramental_a sign_n consecrate_v or_o sanctify_a before_o they_o be_v use_v etc._n name_v bread_n and_o wine_n for_o thus_o we_o read_v in_o the_o same_o that_o after_o the_o priest_n have_v sanctify_v the_o bread_n he_o pour_v wine_n and_o water_n into_o the_o sacred_a cup_n and_o rehearse_v the_o accustom_a word_n etc._n etc._n and_o the_o liturgy_n praesanctificatorum_fw-la of_o the_o presanctified_a sign_n according_a to_o genebrards_n nobis_fw-la 〈◊〉_d speak_v both_o of_o the_o body_n and_o of_o the_o blood_n present_v in_o the_o mystical_a sign_n it_o appear_v also_o by_o balsamon_n 〈◊〉_d upon_o the_o 52_o canon_n of_o the_o synod_n in_o trullo_n that_o both_o the_o element_n be_v consecrate_v at_o least_o upon_o two_o several_a day_n in_o the_o week_n and_o baronius_n 36._o acknowledge_v that_o in_o ancient_a time_n the_o eucharist_n be_v reserve_v in_o both_o the_o kind_n now_o if_o it_o be_v consecrate_v and_o reserve_v in_o both_o kind_n why_o shall_v we_o imagine_v that_o it_o be_v not_o deliver_v and_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n jesuit_fw-la four_o the_o manichee_n live_v in_o rome_n and_o other_o place_n quadrag_v shroud_a themselves_o among_o catholic_n go_v to_o their_o church_n receive_v the_o sacrament_n public_o with_o they_o under_o the_o sole_a form_n of_o bread_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v not_o note_v nor_o there_o discern_v from_o catholic_n a_o manifest_a sign_n that_o communion_n under_o one_o kind_n be_v public_o in_o the_o church_n permit_v at_o the_o least_o upon_o some_o just_a cause_n that_o may_v be_v pretend_v for_o how_o can_v the_o manichee_n still_o refuse_v the_o cup_n have_v be_v hide_v among_o these_o ancient_a christian_n if_o they_o have_v be_v persuade_v as_o now_o protestant_n that_o receive_v under_o one_o kind_n only_o be_v a_o sacrilege_n if_o one_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v refuse_v the_o cup_n but_o once_o in_o a_o public_a communion_n in_o the_o church_n will_v he_o not_o be_v incontinent_o note_v answer_n the_o holy_a eucharist_n in_o the_o day_n of_o pope_n leo_n the_o first_o be_v administer_v in_o both_o kind_n and_o romist_n can_v never_o as_o yet_o produce_v any_o one_o sufficient_a testimony_n or_o example_n that_o so_o much_o as_o any_o one_o congregation_n of_o christian_n in_o ancient_a time_n receive_v in_o the_o open_a church_n under_o one_o kind_n and_o although_o the_o place_n object_v out_o of_o leo_n 〈◊〉_d do_v in_o special_a concern_v the_o manichee_n yet_o it_o show_v plain_o that_o the_o present_a doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o consonant_a to_o the_o ancient_a practice_n of_o the_o same_o church_n nevertheless_o our_o perverse_a adversary_n argue_v against_o we_o out_o of_o this_o place_n of_o leo_fw-la say_v that_o if_o the_o communion_n have_v not_o sometime_o be_v administer_v under_o one_o kind_n the_o manichee_n practice_v in_o refuse_v the_o cup_n can_v not_o have_v pass_v unmarked_a but_o must_v necessary_o have_v be_v observe_v i_o answer_v first_o the_o manichee_n be_v espy_v and_o discover_v otherwise_o how_o can_v the_o pope_n reprove_v their_o practice_n second_o vasques_n specie_fw-la the_o jesuit_n say_v that_o these_o heretic_n receive_v the_o cup_n into_o their_o hand_n but_o drink_v no_o wine_n and_o among_o a_o multitude_n of_o communicant_n some_o few_o may_v hold_v the_o cup_n to_o their_o mouth_n and_o make_v show_v of_o drink_v and_o yet_o receive_v no_o wine_n jesuit_fw-la the_o last_o argument_n be_v practice_v of_o the_o apostle_n that_o be_v of_o the_o first_o christian_n under_o they_o of_o who_o we_o read_v in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n erant_fw-la perseverantes_fw-la in_o doctrina_fw-la 42._o apostolorum_fw-la &_o communicatione_n fractionis_fw-la panis_n &_o orationibus_fw-la speak_v of_o sucred_a eucharistical_a bread_n the_o take_v whereof_o be_v join_v with_o prayer_n which_o unto_o the_o new_o baptise_a be_v straight_o give_v after_o baptism_n and_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o wine_n so_o that_o protestant_n if_o they_o will_v have_v these_o christian_n to_o have_v wine_n they_o must_v out_o of_o their_o own_o liberality_n by_o way_n of_o interpretation_n bestow_v it_o upon_o they_o see_v the_o word_n of_o the_o text_n do_v not_o afford_v it_o they_o to_o this_o apostolical_a practice_n we_o may_v add_v the_o example_n of_o christ_n who_o give_v to_o his_o two_o disciple_n in_o emaus_n the_o sacrament_n under_o the_o sole_a form_n of_o 24._o bread_n that_o the_o bread_n christ_n give_v be_v eucharistical_a 9_o and_o consecrate_v the_o word_n of_o the_o text_n insinuate_v some_o learned_a father_n affirm_v and_o the_o miraculous_a effect_n of_o open_v their_o eye_n to_o know_v christ_n and_o their_o return_n to_o jerusalem_n and_o the_o church_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o all_o haste_n confirm_v it_o that_o they_o receive_v at_o the_o hand_n of_o christ_n the_o sacrament_n under_o one_o only_a kind_n of_o bread_n be_v evident_a by_o the_o context_n of_o the_o holy_a narration_n which_o say_v that_o upon_o our_o saviour_n break_v and_o give_v they_o bread_n they_o know_v he_o and_o be_v straight_o vanish_v out_o of_o their_o sight_n so_o that_o here_o also_o if_o protestant_n will_v have_v wine_n give_v to_o these_o disciple_n they_o must_v by_o the_o superabundance_n thereof_o in_o their_o exposition_n supply_v 〈◊〉_d want_v thereof_o in_o scripture_n yea_o the_o scripture_n in_o this_o place_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d capable_a of_o that_o exposition_n the_o apostle_n acknowledge_v of_o christ_n in_o the_o very_a fraction_n and_o give_v of_o bread_n and_o our_o 〈◊〉_d depart_v in_o the_o same_o moment_n leave_v not-time_n for_o he_o to_o give_v they_o wine_n after_o the_o bread_n answer_n your_o last_o argument_n be_v poor_a and_o drowsy_a and_o perhaps_o you_o imagine_v that_o at_o this_o your_o feast_n if_o yet_o we_o may_v be_v say_v to_o drink_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d sine_fw-la calais_n we_o have_v drink_v well_o before_o and_o therefore_o in_o the_o
rewarder_n of_o they_o that_o seek_v he_o f._n i_o ask_v how_o then_o it_o happen_v as_o mr_n rogers_n say_v that_o the_o english_a church_n be_v not_o yet_o resolve_v what_o be_v the_o right_a sense_n of_o the_o article_n of_o christ_n descend_v into_o hell_n b._n the_o english_a church_n never_o make_v doubt_n that_o i_o know_v what_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o that_o article_n the_o word_n be_v so_o plain_a they_o bear_v their_o meaning_n before_o they_o she_o be_v content_a to_o put_v that_o article_n 3._o among_o those_o to_o which_o she_o require_v subscription_n not_o as_o doubt_v of_o the_o sense_n but_o to_o prevent_v the_o cavil_n of_o some_o who_o have_v be_v too_o busy_a in_o crucify_a that_o article_n and_o in_o make_v it_o all_o one_o with_o the_o article_n of_o the_o cross_n or_o but_o a_o exposition_n of_o it_o and_o sure_o the_o b._n think_v and_o so_o do_v i_o that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v better_a resolve_v of_o the_o right_a sense_n of_o this_o article_n than_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n especial_o if_o she_o must_v be_v try_v by_o her_o writer_n as_o you_o try_v the_o church_n of_o england_n by_o mr_n rogers_n for_o you_o can_v agree_v whether_o this_o article_n be_v a_o mere_a tradition_n or_o whether_o it_o have_v any_o place_n of_o scripture_n to_o warrant_v it_o 〈◊〉_d scotus_n and_o 1._o stapleton_n allow_v it_o no_o foot_n in_o scripture_n but_o docent_fw-la bellarmine_n be_v resolute_a that_o this_o article_n be_v every_o where_o in_o scripture_n and_o 1._o thomas_n grant_v as_o much_o for_o the_o whole_a creed_n the_o church_n of_o england_n never_o doubt_v it_o and_o s._n augustine_n 99_o prove_v it_o and_o yet_o again_o you_o be_v different_a for_o the_o sense_n for_o you_o agree_v not_o whether_o the_o soul_n of_o christ_n in_o triduo_fw-la mortis_fw-la in_o the_o time_n of_o his_o death_n do_v go_v down_o into_o hell_n real_o and_o be_v present_a there_o or_o virtual_o and_o by_o effect_n only_o for_o essentiam_fw-la thomas_n hold_v the_o first_o and_o 3._o durand_n hold_v the_o latter_a then_o you_o agree_v not_o whether_o the_o soul_n of_o christ_n do_v descend_v real_o and_o in_o essence_n into_o the_o low_a pit_n of_o hell_n and_o place_n of_o the_o damn_a as_o 16._o bellarmine_n once_o hold_v probable_a and_o prove_v it_o or_o real_o only_a into_o that_o place_n or_o region_n of_o hell_n which_o you_o call_v limbum_fw-la patrum_fw-la and_o then_o but_o virtual_o from_o thence_o into_o the_o low_a hell_n to_o which_o 11._o bellarmine_n reduce_v himself_o and_o give_v his_o reason_n because_o it_o be_v the_o 2._o common_a opinion_n of_o the_o school_n now_o the_o church_n of_o england_n take_v the_o word_n as_o they_o be_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o believe_v they_o without_o further_a dispute_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n which_o the_o ancient_a primitive_a father_n of_o the_o church_n agree_v in_o and_o yet_o if_o any_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v not_o be_v thorough_o resolve_v in_o the_o sense_n of_o this_o article_n be_v it_o not_o as_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o say_v i_o conceive_v thus_o or_o thus_o of_o it_o yet_o if_o any_o other_o way_n of_o his_o descent_n be_v find_v true_a than_o this_o i_o deny_v it_o not_o but_o as_o yet_o i_o know_v no_o other_o as_o it_o be_v for_o 9_o durand_n to_o say_v it_o and_o yet_o not_o impeach_v the_o foundation_n of_o the_o faith_n f._n the_o b._n say_v that_o mr_n rogers_n be_v but_o a_o private_a man_n but_o say_v i_o if_o mr_n rogers_n write_v as_o he_o do_v by_o public_a authority_n be_v account_v only_o a_o private_a man_n etc._n etc._n b._n the_o b._n say_v truth_n when_o he_o say_v mr_n rogers_n be_v a_o private_a man_n and_o i_o take_v it_o you_o will_v not_o allow_v every_o speech_n of_o every_o man_n though_o allow_v by_o authority_n to_o be_v print_v to_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n this_o have_v be_v oft_o complain_v of_o on_o both_o side_n the_o impose_v particular_a man_n assertion_n upon_o the_o church_n yet_o i_o see_v you_o mean_v not_o to_o leave_v it_o and_o sure_o as_o controversy_n be_v now_o handle_v by_o some_o of_o your_o party_n at_o this_o day_n i_o may_v not_o say_v it_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o article_n in_o hand_n but_o i_o have_v long_o think_v it_o a_o kind_n of_o descent_n into_o hell_n to_o be_v conversant_a in_o they_o i_o will_v the_o author_n will_v take_v heed_n in_o time_n and_o not_o seek_v to_o blind_v the_o people_n or_o cast_v a_o mist_n before_o evident_a truth_n lest_o it_o cause_v a_o final_a descent_n to_o that_o place_n of_o torment_n but_o since_o you_o hold_v this_o course_n stapleton_n be_v of_o great_a note_n with_o you_o than_o rogers_n be_v with_o we_o and_o as_o he_o so_o his_o relection_n and_o be_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o he_o affirm_v 1._o the_o scripture_n be_v silent_a that_o christ_n descend_v into_o hell_n and_o that_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_a and_o a_o apostolic_a church_n if_o it_o be_v then_o what_o will_v become_v of_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n over_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v he_o have_v his_o power_n over_o the_o catholic_a church_n give_v he_o express_o in_o scripture_n in_o 16.19_o the_o key_n to_o enter_v and_o in_o 21.15_o pasce_fw-la to_o feed_v when_o he_o be_v in_o and_o when_o he_o have_v feed_v to_o 22.32_o confirm_v and_o in_o all_o these_o not_o to_o err_v and_o fail_v in_o his_o ministration_n and_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n in_o and_o over_o which_o he_o be_v to_o do_v all_o these_o great_a thing_n quite_o leave_v out_o belike_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v careful_a to_o give_v he_o his_o power_n yes_o in_o any_o case_n but_o leave_v the_o assign_v of_o his_o great_a cure_n the_o catholic_a church_n to_o tradition_n and_o it_o be_v well_o for_o he_o if_o he_o can_v so_o prescribe_v for_o what_o he_o now_o claim_v but_o what_o if_o after_o all_o this_o mr_n rogers_n there_o say_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o in_o 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whatsoever_o it_o may_v now_o determine_v into_o which_o error_n some_o opposer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v fall_v and_o upon_o this_o be_v ground_v your_o question_n wherein_o be_v we_o near_o to_o unity_n if_o a_o council_n may_v err_v in_o relate_v the_o b._n his_o answer_n to_o this_o you_o be_v not_o so_o candid_a as_o you_o confess_v he_o ingenuous_a before_o for_o his_o word_n do_v not_o sound_a as_o you_o seem_v to_o do_v that_o we_o shall_v hold_v with_o the_o council_n err_v or_o not_o err_v till_o another_o come_v to_o reverse_v it_o as_o if_o ground_n of_o faith_n may_v vary_v at_o the_o racket_n and_o be_v cast_v of_o each_o side_n as_o a_o cunning_a hand_n may_v lay_v they_o you_o forget_v again_o omit_v at_o least_o and_o with_o what_o mind_n you_o best_o know_v the_o b._n his_o caution_n for_o he_o say_v the_o determination_n of_o a_o general_n council_n err_v be_v to_o stand_v in_o force_n and_o have_v external_a obedience_n at_o the_o least_o yield_v to_o 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have_v not_o to_o err_v in_o that_o determination_n it_o have_v it_o not_o all_o from_o the_o catholic_a universal_a body_n of_o the_o church_n or_o clergy_n in_o the_o church_n if_o you_o will_v who_o representative_a it_o be_v it_o seem_v it_o have_v for_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o monarchical_a but_o as_o christ_n be_v head_n this_o principle_n be_v 〈◊〉_d in_o nature_n every_o body_n collective_a that_o represent_v receive_v power_n and_o privilege_n from_o that_o body_n which_o be_v represent_v else_o a_o representation_n may_v have_v force_n without_o the_o thing_n it_o represent_v which_o can_v be_v so_o no_o power_n in_o the_o council_n no_o assistance_n but_o what_o be_v in_o and_o to_o the_o church_n but_o yet_o than_o it_o may_v be_v question_v whether_o the_o represent_v body_n have_v all_o the_o power_n strength_n and_o privilege_n which_o the_o represent_v have_v and_o suppose_v it_o have_v all_o the_o legal_a power_n yet_o it_o have_v not_o all_o 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whereas_o the_o represent_v by_o virtue_n of_o these_o member_n may_v hold_v the_o principle_n unuiolated_a 2._o second_o i_o consider_v that_o since_o it_o be_v thus_o in_o nature_n and_o in_o civil_a body_n if_o it_o be_v not_o so_o in_o ecclesiastical_a too_o some_o reason_n must_v be_v give_v why_o miss_z for_o that_o body_n also_o consist_v of_o man_n those_o man_n neither_o all_o equal_a in_o their_o perfection_n of_o knowledge_n and_o judgement_n whether_o acquire_v by_o industry_n or_o root_v in_o nature_n or_o infuse_v by_o god_n not_o all_o equal_a nor_o any_o one_o of_o they_o perfect_a and_o absolute_a or_o free_v from_o passion_n and_o humane_a infirmity_n nor_o do_v their_o meeting_n together_o make_v they_o infallible_a in_o all_o thing_n though_o the_o act_n which_o be_v hammer_v out_o by_o many_o together_o must_v in_o reason_n be_v perfect_a than_o that_o which_o be_v but_o the_o child_n of_o one_o man_n sufficiency_n if_o then_o a_o general_n council_n have_v no_o 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but_o no_o one_o of_o they_o infer_v much_o less_o enforce_v a_o infallibility_n the_o place_n which_o stapleton_n there_o rest_v upon_o be_v these_o 16.13_o i_o will_v send_v you_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n which_o will_v lead_v you_o into_o all_o truth_n and_o 14.16_o this_o spirit_n shall_v abide_v with_o you_o for_o ever_o and_o 28.20_o behold_v i_o be_o with_o you_o unto_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n to_o these_o other_o add_v 16.18_o the_o sound_n of_o the_o church_n upon_o the_o rock_n against_o which_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v and_o christ_n prayer_n for_o s._n peter_n 22.32_o that_o his_o faith_n fail_v not_o 1._o for_o the_o first_o which_o be_v lead_v into_o all_o truth_n and_o that_o for_o ever_o 10._o all_o be_v not_o always_o universal_o take_v in_o scripture_n nor_o be_v it_o here_o simple_o for_o all_o truth_n for_o then_o a_o general_n council_n can_v no_o more_o err_v in_o matter_n of_o fact_n than_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n in_o which_o yet_o your_o quidam_fw-la self_n grant_v it_o may_v err_v but_o into_o all_o 14._o truth_n be_v a_o limit_v all_o into_o all_o truth_n absolute_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o this_o when_o they_o suffer_v themselves_o to_o be_v lead_v by_o the_o bless_a spirit_n by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o all_o truth_n which_o christ_n have_v before_o at_o least_o fundamental_o deliver_v unto_o they_o 16.14_o he_o shall_v receive_v of_o i_o and_o show_v it_o unto_o you_o and_o again_o 14.26_o he_o shall_v teach_v you_o all_o thing_n and_o bring_v all_o thing_n to_o your_o remembrance_n which_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o and_o for_o this_o necessary_a truth_n too_o the_o apostle_n receive_v this_o promise_n not_o for_o themselves_o and_o a_o council_n but_o for_o themselves_o and_o the_o ecclesiam_fw-la whole_a catholic_a
miscarriage_n have_v power_n to_o represent_v herself_o in_o another_o body_n or_o council_n and_o to_o take_v order_n for_o what_o be_v amiss_o either_o practise_v or_o conclude_v so_o here_o be_v a_o mean_n without_o infringe_v any_o lawful_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n to_o preserve_v or_o reduce_v unity_n and_o yet_o grant_v as_o the_o b._n do_v and_o as_o the_o 21._o church_n of_o england_n do_v that_o a_o general_n council_n may_v err_v and_o this_o course_n the_o church_n take_v do_v call_v and_o represent_v herself_o in_o a_o new_a council_n and_o define_v against_o the_o heretical_a conclusion_n of_o the_o former_a as_o in_o the_o case_n at_o ariminum_n and_o the_o second_o of_o ephesus_n be_v evident_a 4._o the_o next_o thing_n i_o consider_v be_v suppose_v a_o general_n council_n infallible_a in_o all_o thing_n which_o be_v of_o faith_n if_o it_o prove_v not_o so_o but_o that_o a_o error_n in_o the_o faith_n be_v conclude_v the_o same_o err_a opinion_n that_o make_v it_o 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christ._n consider_v with_o i_o be_v this_o a_o error_n or_o not_o 26._o bellarmine_n and_o stapleton_n and_o you_o too_o say_v it_o be_v not_o because_o to_o receive_v under_o both_o kind_n be_v not_o by_o divine_a right_n no_o no_o sure_a for_o it_o be_v not_o christ_n 〈◊〉_d precept_n but_o his_o example_n why_o but_o i_o have_v think_v christ_n institution_n of_o a_o sacrament_n have_v be_v more_o than_o his_o example_n only_o and_o as_o bind_v for_o the_o necessary_n of_o a_o sacrament_n the_o matter_n and_o form_n as_o a_o precept_n therefore_o speak_v out_o and_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v christ_n institution_n or_o else_o grant_v with_o stapleton_n it_o be_v a_o damnable_a error_n to_o go_v against_o it_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o christ_n institution_n be_v not_o as_o bind_v to_o we_o as_o a_o precept_n which_o you_o shall_v never_o be_v able_a take_v the_o precept_n with_o it_o chrysoft_a drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o which_o though_o you_o shift_v as_o you_o can_v yet_o 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receive_v but_o fast_v and_o likewise_o that_o though_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n this_o sacrament_n be_v receive_v by_o the_o faithful_a under_o both_o kind_n yet_o this_o custom_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v receive_v by_o layman_n only_o under_o the_o kind_n of_o bread_n be_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o a_o law_n which_o may_v not_o be_v refuse_v and_o to_o say_v this_o be_v a_o unlawful_a custom_n of_o receive_v under_o one_o kind_n be_v erroneous_a and_o they_o which_o persist_v in_o say_v so_o be_v to_o be_v punish_v and_o drive_v out_o as_o heretic_n now_o where_o be_v here_o any_o slander_n of_o the_o council_n the_o word_n be_v plain_a and_o the_o non_fw-la obstante_fw-la mus_fw-la necessary_o for_o aught_o i_o can_v yet_o see_v be_v refer_v to_o both_o clause_n in_o the_o word_n follow_v because_o both_o clause_n go_v before_o it_o and_o have_v as_o much_o force_n against_o receive_v under_o both_o kind_n as_o against_o receive_v after_o supper_n yea_o and_o the_o after-word_n 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this_o reservation_n in_o nature_n that_o it_o will_v call_v again_o and_o reform_v yea_o and_o if_o need_n be_v abrogate_v any_o law_n or_o ordinance_n upon_o just_a cause_n make_v evident_a to_o it_o and_o this_o power_n no_o body_n collective_a ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a can_v put_v out_o of_o itself_o or_o give_v away_o to_o a_o parliament_n or_o council_n or_o call_v it_o what_o you_o will_v that_o represent_v it_o and_o in_o my_o consideration_n it_o hold_v strong_a in_o the_o church_n for_o a_o council_n have_v power_n to_o order_n settle_v and_o define_v difference_n arisen_a concern_v the_o faith_n this_o power_n the_o council_n have_v not_o by_o any_o immediate_a institution_n from_o christ_n but_o it_o be_v prudent_o take_v up_o in_o the_o church_n from_o the_o 2._o apostle_n example_n so_o that_o to_o hold_v counsel_n to_o this_o end_n be_v apparent_a apostolical_a tradition_n write_v but_o the_o power_n which_o counsel_n so_o hold_v have_v be_v from_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n who_o member_n they_o be_v and_o the_o church_n power_n from_o god_n and_o conciliorum_fw-la this_o power_n the_o church_n can_v further_o give_v away_o to_o a_o general_n council_n than_o that_o the_o decree_n of_o it_o shall_v bind_v all_o particular_n and_o itself_o but_o not_o bind_v the_o church_n from_o call_v again_o and_o in_o the_o after_o call_v upon_o just_a cause_n to_o order_n yea_o and_o if_o need_v be_v to_o abrogate_v former_a act_n i_o say_v upon_o just_a cause_n for_o if_o the_o council_n be_v lawful_o call_v and_o proceed_v orderly_a and_o conclude_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n the_o scripture_n the_o whole_a church_n can_v but_o approve_v the_o council_n and_o then_o the_o definition_n of_o it_o can_v never_o be_v question_v after_o and_o the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n have_v no_o wrong_n in_o this_o so_o long_o as_o no_o power_n but_o her_o own_o may_v meddle_v or_o offer_v to_o infringe_v any_o definition_n of_o she_o make_v in_o her_o 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heaven_n especial_o to_o they_o that_o have_v have_v the_o truth_n manifest_v the_o heart_n of_o this_o argument_n be_v break_v beside_o the_o force_n of_o this_o argument_n lie_v upon_o two_o thing_n one_o express_v the_o other_o upon_o the_o by._n first_o that_o which_o be_v express_v be_v we_o and_o our_o adversary_n consent_n that_o there_o be_v salvation_n to_o some_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n what_o will_v you_o have_v we_o as_o malicious_a at_o least_o as_o rash_a as_o yourselves_o be_v to_o we_o and_o deny_v you_o so_o much_o as_o possibility_n of_o salvation_n if_o we_o shall_v we_o may_v make_v you_o in_o some_o thing_n strain_v for_o a_o proof_n but_o we_o have_v not_o so_o learned_a christ_n as_o either_o to_o return_v evil_a for_o evil_n in_o this_o heady_a course_n or_o to_o deny_v salvation_n to_o some_o ignorant_a silly_a soul_n who_o humble_a peaceable_a obedience_n make_v they_o safe_a among_o any_o part_n of_o man_n that_o profess_v the_o foundation_n christ._n and_o therefore_o seek_v not_o to_o help_v our_o cause_n by_o deny_v this_o comfort_n to_o silly_a christian_n as_o you_o most_o fierce_o do_v where_o you_o can_v come_v to_o work_v upon_o they_o and_o this_o be_v a_o old_a trick_n of_o the_o donatist_n for_o in_o the_o point_n of_o baptism_n whether_o that_o church_n or_o in_o the_o part_n of_o donatus_n they_o 〈◊〉_d all_o to_o be_v baptize_v among_o they_o why_o because_o both_o part_n 〈◊〉_d that_o 〈◊〉_d be_v true_a 〈◊〉_d the_o 〈◊〉_d which_o that_o peevish_a sect_n most_o unjust_o deny_v the_o sound_a part_n as_o s._n augustine_n 3._o deliver_v it_o i_o will_v ask_v now_o have_v not_o they_o orthodox_n baptism_n among_o they_o because_o the_o donatist_n deny_v it_o injurious_o or_o shall_v the_o orthodox_n against_o truth_n have_v deny_v baptism_n among_o the_o donatist_n to_o cry_n 〈◊〉_d with_o they_o or_o that_o their_o argument_n may_v not_o be_v the_o strong_a because_o both_o part_n grant_v but_o mark_v this_o how_o far_o you_o run_v from_o all_o common_a principle_n of_o christian_a peace_n as_o well_o as_o christian_a truth_n while_o you_o deny_v salvation_n most_o unjust_o to_o we_o from_o which_o you_o be_v further_o off_o yourselves_o beside_o if_o this_o be_v or_o can_v be_v make_v a_o conclude_a argument_n i_o pray_v why_o do_v not_o you_o believe_v with_o we_o in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o eucharist_n for_o all_o side_n agree_v in_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o in_o the_o most_o bless_a sacrament_n the_o worthy_a receiver_n be_v by_o his_o 5._o faith_n make_v spiritual_o partaker_n of_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n true_o and_o real_o and_o of_o all_o the_o benefit_n of_o his_o passion_n your_o 〈◊〉_d add_v a_o manner_n of_o this_o his_o presence_n transubstantiation_n which_o many_o deny_v and_o the_o lutheran_n a_o manner_n of_o this_o presence_n consubstantiation_n which_o more_o deny_a if_o this_o argument_n be_v good_a then_o even_o for_o this_o consent_n it_o be_v safe_a communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o with_o the_o roman_a or_o lutheran_n because_o all_o agree_v in_o this_o truth_n not_o in_o any_o other_o opinion_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o will_v force_v the_o argument_n to_o make_v that_o the_o safe_a way_n of_o salvation_n which_o differ_v part_n agree_v on_o why_o do_v you_o not_o yield_v to_o the_o force_n of_o the_o same_o argument_n in_o the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o sacrament_n one_o of_o the_o most_o immediate_a mean_n of_o salvation_n where_o not_o only_o the_o most_o but_o all_o agree_v second_o the_o other_o upon_o the_o by_o which_o helpesthis_n argument_n be_v your_o continual_a poor_a outcry_a against_o we_o that_o we_o can_v be_v save_v because_o we_o be_v 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o church_n sure_o if_o i_o thoughti_n be_v out_o i_o will_v get_v in_o as_o fast_o as_o i_o can_v but_o what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o out_o of_o the_o church_n sure_o out_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n why_o but_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v but_o two_o distinct_a member_n of_o that_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v spread_v over_o the_o face_n of_o the_o earth_n therefore_o rome_n be_v not_o the_o house_n where_o the_o church_n dwell_v but_o rome_n itself_o as_o well_o as_o other_o particular_a church_n dwell_v in_o this_o great_a universal_a house_n unless_o you_o will_v shut_v up_o the_o church_n in_o rome_n as_o the_o donatist_n do_v in_o africa_n i_o come_v a_o little_a low_o rome_n and_o other_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v in_o this_o joh._n 〈◊〉_d to_o who_o 〈◊〉_d christ_n the_o care_n of_o the_o household_n be_v commit_v by_o god_n the_o father_n and_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o mother_n of_o 〈◊〉_d christian_n rome_n as_o a_o elder_a sister_n have_v a_o great_a 〈◊〉_d commit_v unto_o she_o in_o and_o from_o the_o prime_a time_n of_o the_o church_n and_o to_o her_o bishop_n in_o she_o but_o at_o this_o time_n to_o 〈◊〉_d pass_v many_o 〈◊〉_d that_o 〈◊〉_d former_o be_v in_o the_o house_n england_n and_o some_o other_o sister_n of_o she_o be_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o house_n what_o then_o will_v the_o father_n and_o the_o mother_n god_n and_o the_o church_n 〈◊〉_d one_o child_n out_o because_o another_o be_v angry_a with_o it_o or_o when_o do_v christ_n give_v that_o power_n to_o the_o elder_a sister_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o her_o 〈◊〉_d the_o bishop_n there_o shall_v thrust_v out_o what_o child_n 〈◊〉_d please_v especial_o when_o she_o herself_o be_v 〈◊〉_d accuse_v to_o have_v give_v the_o offence_n that_o be_v take_v in_o the_o house_n or_o will_v not_o both_o father_n and_o mother_n be_v sharp_a to_o she_o for_o this_o unjust_a and_o unnatural_a usage_n of_o her_o young_a sister_n but_o their_o 〈◊〉_d child_n nay_o be_v it_o not_o the_o next_o way_n to_o make_v they_o 〈◊〉_d she_o out_o of_o door_n that_o be_v so_o 〈◊〉_d to_o the_o rest_n it_o be_v well_o for_o all_o christian_a man_n and_o church_n that_o the_o father_n and_o mother_n of_o they_o be_v 〈◊〉_d so_o 〈◊〉_d as_o some_o will_v have_v they_o and_o salvation_n need_v not_o be_v fear_v of_o any_o 〈◊〉_d child_n 〈◊〉_d out_v from_o the_o church_n because_o this_o elder_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v discover_v in_o the_o house_n and_o 〈◊〉_d grow_v 〈◊〉_d for_o it_o to_o they_o that_o complain_v but_o as_o child_n cry_v when_o they_o be_v awake_v so_o do_v you_o and_o 〈◊〉_d with_o all_o that_o come_v 〈◊〉_d you_o and_o 67._o 〈◊〉_d confess_v that_o you_o be_v in_o 〈◊〉_d dead_a sleep_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d much_o 〈◊〉_d when_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d you_o now_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o rome_n be_v 〈◊〉_d the_o catholic_a church_n itself_o as_o you_o common_o call_v it_o speak_v out_o and_o 〈◊〉_d it_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n you_o may_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d too_o if_o you_o will_v and_o it_o seem_v you_o do_v for_o here_o you_o forget_v 〈◊〉_d what_o the_o b._n say_v to_o you_o 〈◊〉_d the_o doubt_a person_n say_v the_o b._n to_o i_o may_v be_v better_o save_v in_o it_o than_o you_o b._n 14.4_o 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v easy_o than_o you_o than_o 〈◊〉_d man_n that_o know_v so_o much_o of_o truth_n and_o oppose_v against_o it_o as_o you_o and_o your_o 〈◊〉_d do_v how_o far_o you_o know_v truth_n other_o man_n may_v judge_v by_o your_o proof_n and_o cause_n of_o knowledge_n but_o how_o 〈◊〉_d you_o oppose_v it_o when_o it_o be_v know_v that_o be_v within_o and_o no_o man_n can_v know_v but_o god_n and_o yourselves_o howsoever_o where_o the_o foundation_n be_v but_o hold_v there_o for_o 4._o ordinary_a man_n it_o be_v not_o the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o understanding_n but_o the_o simplicity_n of_o believe_v that_o make_v they_o safe_a for_o saint_n augustive_a speak_v there_o of_o man_n in_o the_o church_n and_o no_o man_n can_v be_v simple_o say_v to_o be_v out_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n that_o be_v baptize_v and_o hold_v the_o foundation_n and_o as_o it_o be_v the_o simplicity_n of_o believe_v that_o make_v they_o safe_a yea_o safe_a so_o be_v it_o sometime_o a_o quickness_n of_o understanding_n that_o love_v itself_o and_o some_o by_o respect_n too_o well_o make_v man_n take_v up_o a_o unsafe_a way_n about_o the_o faith_n so_o that_o there_o be_v no_o question_n but_o many_o be_v save_v in_o corrupt_a time_n of_o the_o church_n when_o their_o arb._n leader_n unless_o they_o repent_v before_o death_n be_v lose_v and_o saint_n augustine_n etc._n rule_n will_v be_v true_a that_o in_o all_o corruption_n of_o the_o church_n there_o will_v ever_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o a_o heretic_n and_o a_o plain_a well-meaning_a man_n that_o be_v mislead_v and_o believe_v a_o heretic_n i_o pray_v you_o mark_v this_o and_o so_o by_o god_n grace_n will_v i._o for_o our_o reckon_a will_v be_v
heavy_a if_o we_o mislead_v on_o eytherside_n than_o they_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d us._n but_o i_o see_v i_o must_v look_v to_o myself_o for_o you_o be_v secure_a for_o f._n dr_n white_a say_v i_o have_v secure_v i_o that_o none_o of_o our_o error_n be_v damnable_a so_o long_o as_o we_o hold_v they_o not_o against_o our_o conscience_n and_o i_o hold_v none_o against_o my_o conscience_n b._n it_o seem_v then_o you_o have_v two_o security_n dr_n whites_n assertion_n and_o your_o conscience_n what_o assurance_n dr_n white_a 〈◊〉_d you_o i_o can_v tell_v of_o myself_o nor_o as_o thing_n stand_v may_v i_o rest_v upon_o your_o relation_n it_o may_v be_v you_o use_v he_o no_o better_o than_o you_o do_v the_o bishop_n and_o sure_o it_o be_v so_o for_o i_o have_v since_o speak_v with_o dr_n white_a and_o he_o avow_v this_o and_o no_o other_o answer_n he_o be_v ask_v in_o the_o conferense_n between_o you_o whether_o popish_a error_n be_v fundamental_a to_o 〈◊〉_d he_o give_v 〈◊〉_d by_o distinction_n of_o the_o person_n which_o hold_v and_o profess_v the_o error_n namely_o that_o the_o error_n be_v fundamental_a reductive_a by_o a_o reducement_n if_o they_o which_o embrace_v they_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d adhere_v to_o they_o have_v sufficient_a 〈◊〉_d to_o be_v better_o inform_v nay_o further_o that_o they_o be_v material_o and_o in_o the_o very_a kind_n and_o nature_n of_o they_o leaven_n dross_n hay_o and_o stubble_n yet_o he_o think_v 3.12_o withal_o that_o such_o as_o be_v mislead_v by_o education_n or_o long_a custom_n or_o overvalue_a the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d church_n and_o do_v in_o 〈◊〉_d of_o heart_n embrace_v they_o may_v by_o their_o general_a 〈◊〉_d and_o faith_n in_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n attend_v with_o charity_n 〈◊〉_d other_o virtue_n find_v mercy_n at_o god_n hand_n but_o that_o he_o shall_v say_v signanter_n and_o express_o that_o none_o either_o of_o you_o or_o your_o fellow_n 〈◊〉_d be_v damnable_a so_o long_o as_o you_o hold_v they_o not_o against_o conscience_n that_o he_o utter_o disavow_v you_o deliver_v nothing_o to_o 〈◊〉_d such_o a_o confession_n from_o he_o and_o for_o yourself_o he_o can_v observe_v but_o small_a love_n of_o truth_n few_o sign_n of_o grace_n in_o you_o as_o he_o tell_v i_o yet_o he_o will_v not_o presume_v to_o judge_v you_o or_o your_o salvation_n it_o be_v the_o word_n of_o christ_n that_o must_v judge_v you_o as_o the_o 12.48_o latter_a day_n for_o your_o conscience_n you_o be_v the_o happy_a in_o your_o error_n that_o you_o hold_v nothing_o against_o it_o especial_o if_o you_o speak_v not_o against_o it_o while_o you_o say_v so_o but_o this_o no_o man_n can_v know_v but_o your_o conscience_n for_o no_o man_n know_v the_o thought_n of_o a_o man_n 11._o but_o the_o spirit_n of_o a_o man_n that_o be_v within_o he_o to_o which_o i_o leave_v you_o but_o yet_o you_o leave_v not_o for_o you_o tell_v i_o f._n the_o doubt_v party_n ask_v whether_o she_o may_v be_v save_v in_o the_o protestant_n faith_n upon_o 〈◊〉_d soul_n say_v the_o b._n you_o may_v upon_o my_o soul_n say_v i_o there_o be_v but_o one_o save_v faith_n and_o that_o be_v the_o roman_a b._n so_o it_o seem_v the_o b._n be_v confident_a for_o the_o faith_n profess_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n else_o he_o will_v not_o have_v take_v the_o salvation_n of_o another_o upon_o his_o soul_n and_o sure_o he_o have_v reason_n of_o his_o confidence_n for_o to_o believe_v the_o scripture_n and_o the_o creed_n to_o believe_v these_o in_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o ancient_a primitive_a church_n to_o receive_v the_o four_o great_a general_n counsel_n so_o much_o magnify_v by_o antiquity_n to_o believe_v all_o point_n of_o doctrine_n general_o receive_v as_o fundamental_a in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v a_o faith_n in_o which_o to_o live_v and_o die_v can_v but_o give_v salvation_n and_o therefore_o the_o b._n go_v upon_o a_o sure_a ground_n in_o the_o adventure_n of_o his_o soul_n upon_o that_o faith_n beside_o in_o all_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n that_o be_v controvert_v between_o us._n i_o will_v fain_o see_v any_o one_o point_n maintain_v by_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o can_v be_v prove_v to_o depart_v from_o the_o foundation_n you_o have_v many_o dangerous_a error_n about_o it_o in_o that_o which_o you_o call_v the_o roman_a faith_n but_o there_o i_o leave_v you_o to_o look_v to_o your_o own_o soul_n and_o they_o who_o you_o seduce_v yet_o this_o be_v true_a too_o that_o there_o be_v but_o one_o save_v faith_n but_o then_o every_o thing_n which_o you_o call_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la of_o the_o faith_n because_o some_o council_n or_o other_o have_v define_v it_o be_v not_o such_o a_o breach_n from_o that_o one_o save_v faith_n as_o that_o he_o which_o express_o believe_v it_o not_o nay_o as_o that_o he_o which_o believe_v the_o contrary_a be_v exclude_v from_o salvation_n and_o 14._o bellarmine_n be_v force_v to_o grant_v this_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n de_fw-fr fide_fw-la which_o be_v not_o absolute_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n 23._o therefore_o there_o be_v a_o latitude_n in_o faith_n especial_o in_o reference_n to_o salvation_n to_o set_v a_o bind_v to_o this_o and_o strict_o to_o define_v it_o just_o thus_o far_o you_o must_v believe_v in_o every_o particular_a or_o incur_v damnation_n be_v no_o work_n for_o my_o penne._n these_o two_o thing_n i_o be_o sure_a of_o one_o that_o your_o peremptory_a establish_n of_o so_o many_o thing_n that_o be_v remote_a deduction_n from_o the_o foundation_n have_v with_o other_o error_n lose_v the_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n for_o which_o you_o will_v one_o day_n answer_v and_o the_o other_o that_o you_o be_v go_v further_o from_o the_o foundation_n of_o this_o one_o save_v faith_n than_o can_v ever_o be_v prove_v we_o have_v do_v but_o to_o conclude_v you_o tell_v we_o f._n upon_o this_o and_o the_o precedent_a conference_n the_o lady_n rest_v in_o judgement_n full_o satisfy_v as_o she_o tell_v a_o confident_a friend_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n faith_n yet_o upon_o frailty_n and_o fear_v to_o offend_v the_o king_n she_o yield_v to_o go_v to_o church_n for_o which_o she_o be_v after_o very_o sorry_a as_o some_o of_o her_o friend_n can_v testify_v b._n this_o be_v all_o personal_a and_o how_o that_o honourable_a lady_n be_v settle_v in_o conscience_n how_o in_o judgement_n i_o know_v not_o this_o i_o think_v be_v make_v clear_a enough_o that_o that_o which_o you_o say_v in_o this_o and_o the_o precedent_a conference_n can_v settle_v neither_o unless_o in_o some_o that_o be_v settle_v or_o set_v before_o as_o little_o do_v i_o know_v what_o she_o tell_v any_o friend_n of_o the_o roman_a cause_n no_o more_o whether_o it_o be_v frailty_n or_o fear_v that_o make_v she_o yield_v to_o go_v to_o church_n nor_o how_o sorry_a she_o be_v for_o it_o nor_o who_o can_v testify_v that_o sorrow_n this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o if_o she_o repent_v and_o god_n forgive_v she_o other_o sin_n she_o will_v far_o more_o easy_o be_v able_a to_o answer_v for_o her_o come_n to_o church_n than_o she_o will_v for_o the_o leave_v of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o follow_v the_o superstition_n and_o error_n which_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v add_v in_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o worship_n of_o god_n i_o pray_v god_n give_v her_o mercy_n and_o all_o of_o you_o a_o light_n of_o his_o truth_n and_o a_o love_n to_o it_o first_o that_o you_o may_v no_o long_o be_v make_v instrument_n of_o the_o pope_n boundless_a ambition_n and_o this_o most_o unchristian_a brainsick_a device_n that_o in_o all_o controversy_n of_o the_o faith_n he_o be_v infallible_a and_o that_o by_o way_n of_o inspiration_n and_o prophecy_n in_o the_o conclusion_n which_o he_o give_v to_o due_a consideration_n of_o this_o and_o god_n mercy_n in_o christ_n i_o leave_v you_o finis_fw-la optat._n lib._n 3._o c._n parmen_fw-la aug._n c._n cresc_n lib._n 3._o ca._n 51._o isid._n d._n sum_n bon_fw-fr lib._n 3._o ca._n 53._o aug._n epist._n 48._o ad_fw-la vincent_n idem_fw-la ep._n 52._o ad_fw-la macedon_n idem_fw-la ep._n 61._o ad_fw-la dulcit_fw-la euseb._n hist._n eccles_n li._n 10._o ca._n 9_o et_fw-fr d._n vit_fw-fr const._n li._n i._n ca._n 37._o ministrorum_fw-la dei_fw-la coegit_fw-la concilium_fw-la lib._n 2._o c._n 43._o lib._n 3._o ca._n 6_o 10_o 12_o 16_o 17_o 18_o 23._o interdum_fw-la 〈◊〉_d quae_fw-la ad_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la dei_fw-la commodum_fw-la spectabant_fw-la prescribendo_fw-la &_o ib._n ca._n 63._o &_o lib._n 4._o c._n 14._o c._n 18._o festos_fw-la dies_fw-la instituit_fw-la ca._n 22_o 23_o 27._o episcoporun_n decreta_fw-la confirmavit_fw-la theoderit_fw-la hist._n eccles_n li._n 1._o cap._n 7._o august_n d._n ciu._n dei_fw-la li._n 5._o c._n 25._o tertul._n ad_fw-la
to_o be_v conclude_v out_o of_o it_o and_o since_o you_o be_v please_v before_o to_o pass_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o all_o protestant_n you_o may_v know_v for_o your_o comfort_n that_o all_o protestant_n agree_v most_o strong_o in_o this_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v sufficient_a to_o salvation_n and_o contain_v in_o it_o all_o thing_n necessary_a to_o it_o the_o father_n again_o be_v plain_a the_o testamenti_fw-la schoolman_n not_o stranger_n in_o it_o and_o have_v not_o we_o reason_n then_o to_o account_v it_o as_o it_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o fine_a stapleton_n himself_o though_o a_o angry_a opposite_a confess_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v in_o some_o sort_n the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v in_o the_o nature_n of_o testimony_n and_o in_o the_o matter_n or_o thing_n to_o be_v believe_v and_o if_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o foundation_n to_o which_o we_o be_v to_o go_v for_o witness_n if_o there_o be_v doubt_n about_o the_o faith_n and_o in_o which_o we_o be_v to_o find_v the_o thing_n that_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v as_o necessary_a in_o the_o faith_n we_o never_o do_v nor_o never_o will_v refute_v any_o tradition_n that_o be_v universal_a and_o apostolic_a for_o the_o better_a exposition_n of_o the_o scripture_n nor_o any_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o which_o she_o go_v to_o the_o scripture_n for_o what_o she_o teach_v and_o thrust_v nothing_o as_o fundamental_a in_o the_o faith_n upon_o the_o world_n but_o in_o what_o the_o scripture_n be_v materia_fw-la credendorum_fw-la the_o substance_n of_o that_o which_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v whether_o immediate_o and_o express_o in_o word_n or_o more_o remote_o till_o a_o clear_a and_o full_a deduction_n draw_v it_o out_o f._n i_o ask_v how_o he_o know_v scripture_n to_o be_v scripture_n and_o in_o particular_a genesis_n exodus_fw-la etc._n etc._n these_o be_v believe_v to_o be_v scripture_n yet_o not_o prove_v out_o of_o any_o place_n of_o 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