we shall hold out of the church the vnwrytten verities of the papists for my part if it be true that you say I can not tell what to answer vnto them For our answere is to thē the apostles haue left a perfect rule of ordering the church wrytten and therfore we reiect their traditions if for no other cause yet because they are superfluous and more then neede Now this degree of archbishop being not only not mentioned in the scriptures but also manifestly oppugned it is too bold and hardy a speache that I say no more to fetch the petegree of the archbyshop from the apostles times and from the apostles them selues But all thys time M. Doctor hath forgotten hys question whych was to proue an archbyshop wheras all these testimonies whych he alledgeth make mētion only of a bishop and therfore thys may rather confirme the state of the byshop in this realme thē the archbyshop But in the answere vnto them it shall appeare that as there is not in these places so much as the name of an archbyshop mentioned so except only the name of a bishop there shal be found very little agreemēt betwene the bishops in those dayes and those whych are called byshops in our time with vs. And consequently although M. doctor thought wyth one whiting boxe to haue whited two wals by establishing our archbyshop and byshop by the same testimonies of the fathers yet it shal be plaine that in going about to defend both he left both vndefended Let vs therfore come first to examine Ieroms reasons why one must be ouer the rest for in the testimony of men that is only to be regarded whych is spoken eyther wyth some authority of the scripture or wyth some reason grounded of the scripture otherwise if he speake wythout eyther scripture or reason he is as easely reiected as alledged One sayth he being chosen to be ouer the rest bringeth remedy vnto schismes how so least euery man sayeth he drawing to him selfe to breake the church in peeces But I would aske if the church be not in as great danger when all is done at the pleasure and lust of one man and when one caryeth all into error as when one pulleth one peece wyth him another an other peece and the third hys partalso wyth him And it is harder to draw many into an error then one or that many should be caryed away by their affections then one whych is euident in water whych if it be but a little it is quickly troubled and corrupted but being much it is not so easely But by thys ecclesiasticall Monarchie all things are kept in peace Nay rather it hath bene the cause of discord and well spring of most horrible schisme as it is to be seene in the very decretals them selues And admit it were so yet the peace whych is wythout truth is more execrable thē a thousand contentions For as by striking of two flintes togither there commeth out fire so it may be that sometimes by contention the truth whych is hidden in a darke peace may come to light whych by a peace in naughtines and wickednes being as it were buryed vnder the ground doth not appeare If therfore superiority domination of one aboue the rest haue such force to keepe men from schismes when they be in the truth it hath as great force to kepe them togither in error and so besides that one is easier to be corrupted then many thys power of one bringeth as great incommodity in keping them in error if they fall into it as in the truth if they are in it Moreouer if it be necessary for the keping of vnity in the church of England that one archbyshop should be primate ouer all why is it not as meete that for the keping of the whole vniuersall church there should be one archbyshop or byshop ouer all and the like necessity of the byshop ouer all christendome as of the byshop of all England vnles peraduenture it be more necessary that there should be one byshop ouer the vniuersall church then ouer the church of England for as much as it is more necessary that peace should be kept and schismes be auoyded in the vniuersali church then in the particulare church of England If you say that the archbyshop of England hath hys authority graunted of the Prince the Pope of Rome will say that Constantine or Phocas whych was Emperor of all christendome did graunt him hys authority ouer all churches But you will say that it is a lie but the Pope will set as good a face and make as great a shew therin as you do in diuers poynts here But admit it to be a lie as in dede it is touching Constantine yet I say further that it may come to passe it hath ben that there may be one Christian Cesar ouer all the realmes whych haue churches What if he then will geue that authority to one ouer all that one king graunteth in hys land may any man accept and take at hys hand such authority and if it be not lawful for him to take that authority tel me what fault you can finde in him whych may not be found in them It will be sayd that no one is able to do the office of a byshop vnto all the whole church neither is there any one able to do the office of a byshop to the whole church of England For when those which haue ben most excellent in knowledge and wisedome and most ready and quicke in doing and dispatching matters being alwayes present haue found enough to do to rule and gouerne one seuerall congregation what is he whych absent is able to discharge hys duety toward so many thousand churches And if you take exception that although they be absent yet they may do by vnder ministers as by Archdeacons Chauncellors Officials Commissaries and such other kinde of people what doe you else say then the Pope whych sayeth that by hys Cardinalles and archbyshoppes and Legates and other suche like he doeth all things For wyth their hands he ruleth all and by their feete he is present euerye where and wyth their eyes he seeth what is done in all places Let them take heede therfore least if they haue a common defence wyth the Pope that they be not also ioyned nearer wyth hym in the cause then peraduenture they be aware of Truely it is against my will that I am constrained to make suche comparisons not that I thinke there is so great diuersity betweene the Popedome and the archbyshoppricke but because there being greate resemblance betweene them I meane hauing regarde to the bare functions wythout respecting the doctrine good or badde whych they vpholde that I say there being great resemblance betweene them there is yet as I am persuaded great difference betweene the parsons that execute them The whych good opinion conceyued of them I we moste humbly beseeche them by the glory of God by the libertye of
good common wealthes wherein many haue lyke power and authoritie And further if because there is one king in a lande aboue all he will conclude there should be one archbyshop ouer all I say as I haue sayde that it is not agaynst any word of God which I know although it be inconuenient but that there may be one Cesar ouer all the world and yet I thinke M. Doctor will not say that there may be one archbyshop ouer all the world Now M. Doctor commeth to hys olde hole where he woulde fayne hyde hym selfe and with hym all the ambition tyranny and excesse of authoritie which is ioyned wyth these functions of archbyshoppe and byshoppe as they are now vsed and thys hys hole is that all the mynisters are equall with byshops and archbyshops as touching the mynisterie of the worde and sacramentes but not as touching pollicie and gouernment The papistes vse the very selfe same distinction for the mayntenance of the Popes tyranny and ambytion and other their hierarchie Maister Doctor hath put out the marke and conceled the name of the papistes and so with a little chaunge of wordes as it were with certayne new coloures he woulde deceiue vs For the papistes saye that euery syr Iohn or hedge priest hath as great authoritie to sacrifice and offer for the quicke and the dead and to mynister the sacramentes as the Pope of Rome hath but for gouernment and for order the byshoppe is aboue a priest the archbyshoppe aboue a byshoppe and the Pope aboue them all But I haue declared before out of the scriptures how vayne a distinction it is and it appeareth out of Cyprian that as all the byshops were equall one to an other so he sayth that to euery one was geuen a portion of the Lordes flocke not only to feede with the worde and sacramentes but to rule and gouerne not as they which shall make any accoumpte vnto an archbyshop or be iudged of hym but as they which can not bee iudged of any but of god And Ierome vpon Titus sayeth that the elder or mynister dyd gouerne and rule in common with the byshops the churche whereof he was elder or mynister After followeth M. Caluin a great patrone forsoth of the archbyshop or of thys kynde of byshop which is vsed amongst vs heere in Englande And heere to passe ouer your straunge cytations and quotations which you make to put your answerer to payne sending hym sometymes to Musculus common places for one sentence to Augustines workes to Chrysostomes workes to Cyrill to Maister Foxe and heere sending hym to the viij chapter of the institutions as though you had neuer red Caluins institutions but tooke the sentence of some bodye else withoute anye examination whereby it seemeth that you were lothe that euer any man should answere your booke letting I say all thys passe what maketh thys eyther to proue that there shoulde bee one archbyshoppe ouer all the mynisters in the prouince or one byshoppe ouer all in the diocese that amongst twelue that were gathered together into one place there was one which ruled the action for which they mette And that it may appeare what superioritie it is which is lawfull amongst the mynisters and what it is that M. Caluin speaketh of what also the fathers and councels doe meane when they geue more to the byshoppe of any one church then to the elder of the same church and that no man be deceiued by the name of gouernoure or ruler ouer the rest to fancie any such authoritie and domination or Lordship as we see vsed in our church it is to be vnderstanded that amongst the pastors elders and deacons of euery particulare church and in the meetinges and companies of the mynisters or elders of dyuers churches there was one chosen by the voyces and suffrages of them all or the most part which did propound the matters that were to be handled whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishmentes and censures to be decreed vpon those which had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter so euer occasion was geuen to entreate of the which also gathered the voyces and reasons of those which had interest to speake in such cases whiche also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces whiche were geuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonishe or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receiue admonishment consolation or rebuke and which in a worde dyd moderate that whole action which was done for the time they were assembled which thing we do not deny may be but affirme that it is fitte necessary to be to the auoyding of confusion For it were an absurde hearing that many should at once attempt to speake neyther coulde it be done without great reproch that many men beginning to speake some should be bidden to holde their peace which would come to passe if there should be no order kept nor none to appoynt when euery one should speake or not to put them to silence when they attempted confusedly to speake and out of order Moreouer when many ministers mete together and in so great dyuersitie of giftes as the Lorde hath geuen to hys church there be founde that excell in memory facilitie of tong and expedition or quicknesse to dispatche matters more then the rest and therefore it is fitt that the brethren that haue that dexteritie shoulde especially be preferred vnto thys office that the action may be the better and more spedely made an ende of And if any man will call thys a rule or presidentship and hym that executeth thys office a president or moderator or a gouernour we will not striue so that it be with these cautions that he be not called simply gouernor or moderator but gouernor or moderator of that action and for that time and subiect to the orders that others be to be censured by the company of the brethren as wel as others if he be iudged any way faulty And that after that action ended meeting dissolued he sitte hym downe in hys olde place and set hym selfe in equall estate with the rest of the ministers Thirdly that thys gouernment or presidentship or what so euer lyke name you will geue it be not so tyed vnto that minister but that at the next meeting it shall be lawfull to take an other if an other bee thought meeter Of thys order and pollicy of the church if we will see a liuely image and perfect paterne let vs set before our eyes the most auncient and gospel like church that euer was or shall be In the actes the church being gathered together for the election of an Apostle into the place of Iudas the traytor when as the interest of election belonged vnto all and to the apostles especially aboue the rest out of the whole company Peter riseth vp telleth the cause of their comming together with what cautions and qualities they ought to
eldershyp excommunication and the office of Deacons as it is thought for that the Saduces of whome so often mention is made in the gospell are thought to haue had that offyce to prouide for the poore for those that know the Hebrew tongue doe vnderstand that tsaddikim and tsedacah do not only signifie iustice and iust men but also almes and almes men I say these and others more translated from the law vnto the gospell but neyther you nor your Clement shall euer be able to shew that the Lord euer translated any thing from Gentelisme into the gospell We reade in the Actes that all the Gentiles were commaunded to conforme them selues vnto the Iewes in the abstayning from bloude and strangled meate for a tyme but we can neuer finde that the Iewes were commaunded to conforme them to the Gentiles in their ceremonies the reason wherof is because the one was sometymes the law of God and therefore he that had conscience in it was to be borne with and the other came from men and out of their forge which the Lord would neuer geue so much honor vnto as to make other men by any meanes subiect vnto them But what if there were no such offices amongst the Gentiles Paganes as Archiflamines or Protoflamines whereof before I shew the coniectures which I haue I must geue the gentle reader to vnderstand that I am not ignorant that there are diuers which say there were such offices amongst the Gentiles and namely heere in Englande that there were 25. Flamines and three Archiflamines wherof were made three archbyshops of London Canterbury and Yorke and. 25. Bishops as Platine hath in the chapter Eleutherius And Galfridus Monemutensis in hys seconde booke and first chapter And Lumbarde in hys fourthe booke speaketh of it as of a generall thing that was in all places where Paganisme was But if so be that the relygion of other Paganes dyd follow and was lyke vnto that of the Romaines which is very probable they being then the rulers of the whole worlde in a maner vnto whose example all men doe lightly conforme them selues euen without commaundement then there is great likelyhoode there were no such archiflamines or protoflamines out of Tullie which sheweth that there was amongst the Romaines dyuers kindes of priestes whereof some were called flamines of a seuerall attire which they ware alwayes of their heades other pontifices and a thirâ—â—â— sort were called Salij and that the cheefe of these Flamines was called flâ—meâ—â—â—alâ—s who was also distinguished from the rest vp a white hatte but of any archiflamines or protoflamines he maketh no mention at all and therefore it is lyke that there was neuer any such office amongst the Paganes And if there were I haue shewed how wycked it is to say that Peter framed the mynisterie of the gospell by it Now let it be seene of all men how strongly you haue concluded that the names of archbyshoppes are not antichristian when as it is most certen that he was a piller of antichrist vppon whome your reason is grounded The tymes wherein Volusianus lyued declare suffyciently how little credite is to be geuen to hys testimonie which were when the masse had place if not so wycked as it was after yet notwithstanding farre differing from the simplicitie of the supper which was left by our sauiour Christ And Eusebius is of more credite in thys then Volusianus which sayth of the reporte of Dionisius byshop of Corinthe that S. Paule made Dionisius Areopagita byshop of Athens he sayth not archbyshop but byshop although he speake twise of it And in the preface before hys workes it is fayde that after hys conuersion he went to Rome to Clement and was sent with others of Clement into the West partes and that he came to Paris and was there executed whether so euer of these opinions is true that falleth whyche Volusianus affirmeth And if eyther Volusianus or you will haue vs beeleue that Dyonisius Areopagita was archbyshoppe of Athens you must shew some better authoritie then Eusebius or Dyonisius byshop of Corinthe and then your cause shall haue at the least some more coloure of truthe Erasmus followeth which sayth Titus was archbyshop of Crete whom I coulde answere with hys owne wordes for I am sure he will graunt me that Titus Timothe had one office the one in Ephesus the other in Crete but it appeareth by Erasmus hys owne wordes that Timothe was but byshop of Ephesus therefore Titus was but byshop of Crete For Erasmus in hys argument vpon the first Epistle of Timothe sayth that S. Paule did enfornie Timothe of the office of a byshop and of the discipline of the church If eyther he had bene an archbyshop or an archbyshop had bene so necessary as it is made hee would haue instructed hym in that also And I pray you tell me whether Erasmus or the Greeke Scholiast be more to bee beeleeued in thys poynte out of whome is taken that whyche is in the latter ende of the Epystles to Tymothe and Tytus where they bothe are called the first elected Byshoppes that euer were eyther of Ephesus or Creta For my parte I thyncke they were neyther Byshoppes nor Archbyshoppes but Euangelistes as shall appeare afterwardes But it maye be suffycient to haue sette agaynste Erasmus authoritie the authoritie of the Scholiaste And if heere you will cauill and say that the Scholiaste whych sayeth hee was Byshoppe denyeth not but that he also was an Archbyshoppe because an archbyshop is a byshop it may be answered casely that the Scholiaste dyd not speake nor wryte so vnproperly as to call them by the generall name of byshop whome he myght as easely haue called if the truth woulde haue let hym by a more proper and particular name of archbyshop And further in thys dyuision of the mynisters the archbyshop and the byshop are members of one dyuision and therefore one of them can not be affirmed and sayde of an other for that were contrary to the nature of a true dyuision And yet I haue a further answere bothe to Erasmus and Volusianus and whatsoeuer other haue written after thys sort that they speake gaue titles to those men they wrote of not according to that which they were but according to the custome and manner of that age wherein they wrote And so we may read that Vincentius and Nicephorus wryting of Victor speake farre otherwise of hym then Eusebius doth which notwithstanding wrote of the same man which they dyd The one calleth Victor the Pope of Rome And the other sayeth that in glory he passed all the byshops before hym which Eusebius neuer maketh any word of Euen so Volusianus and Erasmus lyuing in the tymes when as they which were the most esteemed in the ministerie were called archbyshops call Titus and Dyonisius archbyshops vpon whome depended the cheefe care of those churches which they gouerned There followeth Anacletus an other of these witnesses which