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england_n ambassador_n king_n pope_n 4,544 5 7.1893 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A67435 The controversial letters, or, The grand controversie concerning the pretended temporal authority of popes over the whole earth, and the true sovereign of kings within their own respective kingdoms : between two English gentlemen, the one of the Church of England, the other of the Church of Rome ... Walsh, Peter, 1618?-1688. 1674 (1674) Wing W631; ESTC R219375 334,631 426

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election_n at_o least_o till_o his_o brother_n consent_v as_o he_o soon_o do_v the_o same_o title_n which_o k._n stephen_n and_o after_o he_o k._n john_n have_v to_o the_o crown_n i_o shall_v think_v their_o example_n a_o very_a good_a reason_n that_o the_o proceed_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o to_o be_v draw_v into_o consequence_n for_o if_o they_o may_v it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n perhaps_o be_v at_o least_o have_v be_v elective_a which_o i_o suppose_v no_o englishman_n will_v admit_v if_o they_o may_v not_o i_o know_v not_o to_o what_o purpose_n they_o be_v allege_v for_o these_o reason_n i_o be_o persuade_v nothing_o can_v be_v draw_v from_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o first_o norman_n prince_n to_o justify_v the_o resignation_n of_o king_n john_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v bind_v to_o our_o time_n that_o it_o never_o have_v any_o validity_n at_o all_o but_o not_o to_o leave_v the_o matter_n disputable_a betwixt_o my_o no_o and_o the_o 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that_o be_v with_o the_o consent_n and_o praise_n of_o the_o universality_n of_o christian_a prelate_n and_o yet_o one_o i_o know_v not_o who_o dare_v dispute_v against_o it_o and_o publish_v his_o book_n and_o cast_v a_o mist_n before_o the_o eye_n of_o the_o simple_a and_o so_o go_v on_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o chapter_n amplify_a the_o boldness_n and_o rashness_n of_o stand_v in_o opposition_n to_o so_o many_o and_o so_o learned_a and_o so_o holy_a man_n who_o for_o the_o great_a solemnity_n he_o gather_v all_o into_o one_o great_a council_n excommunicate_v and_o depose_n by_o apostolic_a authority_n heretical_a prince_n or_o patron_n of_o heretic_n and_o upon_o this_o fancy_n of_o make_v one_o council_n of_o all_o age_n he_o be_v so_o intent_n that_o he_o quite_o forget_v that_o heretical_a prince_n be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o
depose_v for_o what_o no_o repentance_n can_v cure_v again_o in_o the_o new_a law_n he_o will_v make_v we_o believe_v chilperick_n be_v depose_v for_o insufficiency_n do_v the_o pope_n admonish_v he_o to_o repent_v the_o grievous_a fault_n of_o have_v so_o little_a wit_n and_o allow_v he_o time_n to_o provide_v himself_o of_o better_a brain_n and_o better_a organ_n and_o when_o he_o find_v he_o incorrigible_a and_o all_o persuasion_n lose_v upon_o he_o and_o that_o say_v the_o pope_n what_o he_o can_v he_o will_v not_o do_v what_o he_o can_v not_o do_v then_o at_o last_o after_o fruitless_a and_o long_o delude_v patience_n cast_v he_o off_o wherefore_o though_o bellarmine_n do_v require_v such_o formality_n as_o can_v convenient_o be_v spare_v yet_o possible_o he_o may_v not_o think_v their_o necessity_n so_o absolute_a as_o that_o the_o deposition_n shall_v be_v void_a if_o they_o concur_v not_o but_o let_v he_o think_v what_o he_o please_v while_o with_o all_o his_o insignificant_a 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and_o so_o as_o many_o as_o offer_v till_o they_o come_v at_o last_o to_o some_o body_n who_o be_v rectus_fw-la in_o curiâ_fw-la for_o the_o first_o may_v stand_v as_o well_o as_o any_o of_o these_o who_o i_o conceive_v be_v all_o in_o the_o number_n of_o those_o who_o can_v claim_v and_o than_o what_o do_v succession_n or_o election_n hinder_v but_o the_o pope_n still_o give_v at_o pleasure_n since_o none_o shall_v succeed_v or_o be_v elect_v but_o who_o he_o please_v again_o what_o difference_n betwixt_o give_v a_o kingdom_n to_o who_o the_o pope_n please_v and_o to_o who_o reason_n mean_v the_o pope_n reason_n prefer_v preference_n of_o reason_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n but_o that_o the_o pope_n please_v to_o think_v it_o fit_a this_o man_n shall_v be_v prefer_v than_o the_o other_o so_o that_o election_n and_o succession_n and_o reason_n be_v nothing_o in_o truth_n but_o the_o pope_n pleasure_n and_o all_o that_o bellarmine_n afford_v we_o be_v a_o mere_a sound_n of_o word_n which_o signify_v nothing_o and_o if_o they_o do_v be_v nothing_o to_o purpose_n neither_o for_o we_o be_v all_o this_o while_n beside_o the_o cushion_n it_o make_v nothing_o i_o think_v to_o the_o justification_n of_o a_o robbery_n that_o the_o prey_n be_v equal_o share_v and_o when_o a_o king_n be_v dethrone_v he_o be_v as_o much_o dethrone_v if_o he_o be_v succeed_v by_o the_o next_o heir_n as_o by_o a_o stranger_n neither_o do_v i_o believe_v he_o be_v much_o concern_v who_o come_v next_o upon_o the_o stage_n when_o his_o own_o part_n be_v end_v our_o question_n at_o present_a be_v whether_o king_n in_o beauties_n doctrine_n be_v only_o precarious_a king_n by_o the_o way_n precarious_a be_v not_o very_a currant_n english_a i_o think_v we_o shall_v call_v it_o hold_v at_o will_n or_o pleasure_n or_o if_o you_o will_v coin_v a_o new_a word_n tenure_n by_o entreaty_n but_o however_o let_v we_o keep_v our_o author_n word_n barclay_n object_n that_o bellarmin_n make_v king_n precarious_a because_o he_o allow_v the_o pope_n to_o take_v away_o and_o give_v kingdom_n and_o this_o whenever_o he_o have_v a_o mind_n as_o be_v sole_a judge_n in_o the_o case_n bellarmin_n answer_v that_o king_n be_v indeed_o precarious_a if_o their_o kingdom_n can_v be_v dispose_v of_o at_o pleasure_n but_o because_o the_o pope_n be_v tie_v to_o the_o order_n of_o justice_n in_o that_o point_n they_o be_v not_o precarious_a as_o if_o barclay_n insist_v on_o that_o or_o think_v their_o be_v precarious_a depend_v on_o that_o disposition_n the_o son_n in_o defence_n of_o his_o father_n laugh_v at_o that_o notion_n of_o precarious_a and_o right_o observe_v that_o precarious_a be_v not_o say_v with_o relation_n to_o he_o that_o give_v but_o he_o that_o take_v away_o it_o be_v the_o power_n of_o revocation_n if_o that_o word_n fit_v he_o who_o never_o give_v place_v in_o the_o pope_n the_o power_n of_o depose_v when_o the_o pope_n think_v fit_a which_o make_v a_o king_n precarious_a let_v the_o kingdom_n be_v dispose_v how_o it_o will_v afterward_o the_o king_n be_v still_o precarious_a pure_o tenant_n at_o will_n but_o pray_v tell_v i_o true_o do_v you_o in_o earnest_n find_v any_o thing_n in_o these_o heal_a butt_n of_o bellarmin_n which_o make_v his_o opinion_n a_o jot_n sound_a than_o the_o canonist_n a_o jot_n safe_a for_o prince_n or_o more_o dutiful_a for_o subject_n for_o my_o part_n i_o profess_v serious_o i_o find_v nothing_o unless_o nonsense_n will_v do_v the_o feat_n there_o be_v a_o little_a more_o nonsense_n in_o this_o opinion_n than_o the_o other_o and_o if_o that_o be_v a_o security_n for_o prince_n it_o will_v do_v well_o if_o the_o world_n run_v mad_a as_o fast_o as_o it_o can_v while_o man_n be_v in_o their_o wit_n they_o will_v go_v near_o to_o think_v never_o a_o barrel_n better_a herring_n just_o such_o work_n he_o make_v with_o barclay_n next_o proposition_n which_o be_v this_o to_o judge_v when_o it_o be_v necessary_a for_o the_o good_a of_o soul_n that_o a_o king_n be_v depose_v belong_v only_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o none_o be_v to_o question_v his_o judgement_n this_o he_o say_v be_v like_o the_o former_a and_o if_o it_o be_v ill_o understand_v be_v false_a but_o right_o understand_v be_v true_a but_o then_o conclude_v not_o what_o barclay_n will_v have_v it_o now_o be_o i_o terrible_o afraid_a that_o ill_o understand_v be_v as_o much_o in_o beauties_n language_n as_o true_o understand_v or_o so_o as_o it_o true_o signify_v and_o right_o understand_v mean_n understand_v otherwise_o then_o as_o it_o signify_v for_o else_o i_o can_v for_o my_o heart_n see_v but_o if_o the_o pope_n may_v depose_v when_o there_o be_v necessity_n and_o judge_v when_o this_o necessity_n happen_v and_o none_o must_v call_v his_o judgement_n in_o question_n and_o these_o word_n mean_v as_o they_o sound_v king_n be_v pure_o tenant_n at_o will_n and_o the_o pope_n may_v depose_v they_o whenever_o he_o please_v to_o judge_v it_o necessary_a which_o be_v what_o barclay_n will_v conclude_v what_o be_v the_o good_a meaning_n in_o which_o we_o must_v right_o understand_v it_o why_o it_o do_v indeed_o belong_v to_o the_o pope_n say_v he_o to_o judge_v whether_o it_o be_v necessary_a a_o king_n shall_v be_v deprive_v of_o his_o kingdom_n very_o well_o so_o barclay_n understand_v it_o and_o so_o bellarmin_n himself_o understand_v it_o why_o do_v it_o not_o conclude_v then_o that_o prince_n may_v be_v depose_v at_o pleasure_n because_o of_o another_o but._n but_o say_v he_o it_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o the_o pope_n to_o feign_v necessity_n at_o pleasure_n or_o serve_v his_o passion_n under_o pretence_n of_o necessity_n bellarmin_n be_v as_o unlucky_a it_o his_o butt_n as_o distinction_n whoever_o say_v it_o belong_v to_o
so_o many_o copy_n as_o have_v be_v make_v from_o the_o time_n in_o which_o he_o live_v till_o the_o time_n his_o work_n appear_v in_o the_o world_n it_o may_v have_v be_v alter_v 136._o vestrae_fw-la jurisdictiones_fw-la est_fw-la reg._n angliae_fw-la &_o quantum_fw-la ad_fw-la feudatarii_fw-la juris_fw-la obligationem_fw-la vob●s_fw-la dumtaxat_fw-la obnexius_fw-la teneor_fw-la experiatur_fw-la anglia_fw-it qui●d_fw-la possit_fw-la rom._n pontifex_fw-la &_o quia_fw-la materialibus_fw-la armis_fw-la non_fw-la utitur_fw-la patrimonium_fw-la b._n petri_n spirituali_fw-la gladio_fw-la tucatur_fw-la pet._n bless_v ep._n 136._o and_o indeed_o who_o consider_v what_o go_v before_o and_o what_o come_v after_o will_v see_v the_o two_o period_n which_o concern_v this_o matter_n do_v not_o well_o fit_a the_o place_n the_o letter_n demand_v counsel_n of_o the_o pope_n upon_o the_o undutiful_a carriage_n of_o his_o child_n who_o though_o he_o can_v reduce_v by_o force_n to_o their_o duty_n yet_o 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the_o child_n of_o his_o elder_a brother_n who_o be_v heir_n not_o to_o john_n but_z richard_z and_o by_o john_n wrongful_o exclude_v this_o lady_n never_o marry_v but_o live_v to_o a_o good_a age_n 59_o m._n paris_n add_v a_o 1241._o y_fw-fr podig._n neustriae_fw-la p._n 59_o one_o example_n of_o many_o of_o the_o little_a comfort_n there_o be_v in_o unsupported_a greatness_n she_o die_v in_o the_o year_n 1241_o and_o be_v bury_v among_o the_o nun_n of_o amesbury_n to_o who_o by_o permission_n of_o henry_n iii_o she_o give_v the_o manor_n of_o molsham_n her_o right_n be_v bury_v with_o she_o but_o while_o she_o live_v it_o can_v be_v say_v k._n john_n have_v no_o competitor_n this_o be_v so_o all_o pretence_n from_o k._n john_n fact_n be_v cut_v up_o by_o the_o root_n there_o be_v not_o so_o much_o to_o be_v say_v for_o it_o as_o that_o himself_o have_v right_a to_o what_o he_o give_v away_o and_o yet_o for_o my_o part_n i_o think_v if_o he_o have_v have_v a_o right_a as_o 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to_o break_v with_o the_o pope_n for_o it_o be_v evident_o to_o ruin_v himself_o so_o that_o it_o be_v wise_o do_v of_o his_o council_n to_o provide_v for_o the_o great_a danger_n first_o and_o leave_v the_o rest_n to_o time_n it_o be_v true_a also_o that_o king_n john_n make_v use_v of_o this_o subjection_n to_o annul_v his_o concession_n to_o the_o baron_n but_o it_o do_v not_o therefore_o follow_v there_o be_v no_o interruption_n the_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n protest_v at_o very_a first_o and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n the_o baron_n refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o the_o pope_n sentence_n and_o stand_v to_o their_o obtain_v concession_n notwithstanding_o his_o excommunication_n the_o french_a reject_v his_o claim_n with_o great_a ardour_n solemn_a opposition_n be_v make_v in_o the_o council_n of_o lion_n both_o by_o king_n and_o kingdom_n in_o the_o reign_n of_o henry_n iii_o succeed_v king_n positive_o deny_v all_o mark_n of_o subjection_n and_o be_v abet_v 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so_o far_o from_o be_v more_o confirm_v that_o it_o be_v not_o confirm_v at_o all_o nor_o can_v be_v by_o any_o practice_n of_o the_o pope_n unless_o the_o kingdom_n have_v concur_v to_o it_o the_o next_o point_n that_o the_o pope_n never_o solemn_o devest_v himself_o i_o conceive_v not_o to_o purpose_n for_o if_o his_o title_n be_v never_o good_a it_o be_v no_o matter_n whether_o he_o ever_o disclaim_v it_o or_o no._n and_o yet_o if_o the_o author_n of_o the_o eulogium_fw-la say_v to_o be_v in_o the_o cotton_n library_n be_v of_o any_o credit_n this_o too_o may_v be_v deny_v for_o he_o express_o say_v that_o in_o a_o parliament_n at_o london_n 1214_o where_o the_o clergy_n cum_fw-la tota_fw-la laicali_fw-la secta_fw-la be_v present_a the_o obligation_n be_v by_o the_o pope_n command_n whole_o release_v for_o my_o own_o part_n i_o must_v confess_v i_o know_v not_o how_o far_o this_o author_n may_v be_v trust_v not_o find_v any_o mention_n of_o so_o remarkable_a a_o passage_n any_o 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will_n at_o least_o it_o do_v satisfy_v the_o pope_n who_o in_o pol._n virgil_n word_n statim_fw-la refrixit_fw-la ●_o pol._n virgil_n lib._n 1●_n in_o ed._n ●_o ut_fw-la scilicet_fw-la si_fw-la pertinacius_fw-la contenderet_fw-la ne_o inhoneste_a causa_fw-la caderet_fw-la and_o never_o that_o i_o know_v touch_v upon_o this_o string_n more_o and_o it_o must_v satisfy_v all_o englishman_n for_o it_o be_v a_o resolution_n of_o parliament_n or_o at_o least_o of_o a_o great_a council_n of_o the_o nobility_n which_o in_o those_o day_n be_v equivalent_a i_o be_o come_v to_o the_o end_n of_o your_o letter_n and_o i_o think_v of_o write_v too_o unless_o you_o do_v something_o on_o your_o side_n beside_o ask_v question_n painful_a to_o resolve_v and_o fruitless_a when_o they_o be_v resolve_v you_o have_v my_o last_o it_o may_v be_v your_o full_a wish_n my_o first_o too_o for_o i_o can_v answer_v it_o to_o reason_n to_o continue_v sow_v in_o barren_a ground_n and_o believe_v while_o so_o much_o 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it_o be_v not_o the_o
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not_o know_v or_o not_o procurable_a by_o he_o who_o manage_v the_o business_n against_o another_o edition_n this_o cochlaeus_fw-la furnish_v the_o press_n with_o the_o copy_n which_o we_o now_o have_v whence_o he_o have_v it_o himself_o i_o know_v not_o but_o methinks_v the_o credit_n of_o a_o private_a man_n be_v a_o weak_a support_n for_o a_o matter_n of_o this_o consequence_n beside_o how_o much_o time_n ought_v in_o reason_n be_v allow_v to_o a_o conciliar_a discusion_n and_o determination_n of_o threescore_o canon_n carenza_n have_v threescore_o and_o ten_o and_o somewhere_o i_o have_v hear_v of_o another_o number_n which_o disagreement_n by_o the_o way_n be_v a_o suspicious_a thing_n m._n paris_n tell_v we_o the_o council_n be_v summon_v for_o the_o first_o of_o nou._n and_o meet_v i_o suppose_v at_o the_o day_n the_o pope_n first_o make_v a_o exhortation_n afterward_o cause_v 60_o chapter_n to_o be_v read_v and_o conclude_v with_o a_o second_o exhortation_n concern_v the_o h._n land_n all_o this_o as_o far_o as_o can_v be_v gather_v by_o he_o pass_v in_o one_o day_n which_o if_o it_o do_v the_o council_n can_v not_o possible_o contribute_v more_o than_o the_o hear_n to_o any_o thing_n beside_o he_o plain_o say_v these_o 60_o chapter_n to_o some_o appear_v easy_a to_o other_o burdensome_a which_o be_v very_o far_o from_o a_o conciliar_a approbation_n now_o he_o say_v not_o precise_o when_o the_o council_n end_v but_o it_o be_v apparent_a by_o he_o that_o it_o last_v not_o long_o the_o pope_n in_o this_o council_n at_o the_o king_n instance_n suspend_v the_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n this_o suspension_n bear_v date_n pridie_fw-la nonas_fw-la or_o four_o nou._n beside_o he_o vacat_n the_o election_n of_o his_o brother_n simon_n langton_n to_o the_o sea_n of_o york_n and_o excommunicate_v the_o baron_n of_o england_n these_o sentence_n be_v not_o record_v as_o the_o other_o but_o in_o liklyhood_n pass_v at_o the_o same_o time_n m._n paris_n mention_n immediate_o the_o end_n of_o the_o council_n quo_fw-la facto_fw-la after_o which_o say_v he_o two_o of_o the_o three_o agent_n which_o the_o king_n of_o england_n have_v there_o return_v to_o bring_v he_o the_o good_a news_n they_o find_v he_o at_o rochester_n from_o whence_o he_o march_v to_o st._n alban_n and_o come_v thither_o time_n enough_o to_o have_v the_o suspension_n of_o the_o archbishop_n attest_v by_o the_o seal_n of_o the_o convent_n 13_o calend._n jan._n or_o 20_o decemb._n by_o this_o account_n how_o long_o can_v the_o council_n last_o or_o how_o much_o time_n can_v be_v spend_v in_o due_o weigh_v so_o many_o canon_n some_o of_o such_o importance_n when_o man_n who_o have_v see_v the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o council_n which_o begin_v not_o before_o nou._n be_v in_o england_n by_o the_o 20_o of_o december_n