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A35922 A dialogue betwixt Whig and Tory, aliàs Williamite and Jacobite Wherein the principles and practices of each party are fairly and impartially stated; that thereby mistakes and prejudices may be removed from amongst us, and all those who prefer English liberty, and Protestant religion, to French slavery and popery, may be inform'd how to choose fit and proper instruments for our preservation in these times of danger. Defoe, Daniel, 1661?-1731, attributed name.; Overton, Benjamin, attributed name. 1693 (1693) Wing D1361; ESTC R229679 34,923 48

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shewed to you Tories in spight of all your apparent Hatred of his Person as well as your profess'd Dislike of his Title and Government and the Aversion he hath shew'd to the Whigs and Contempt of all their Advances and Addresses hath begotten ugly Reasonings in jealous and prying Men as if there were a Biass towards the Principles of former Governments rather than to those this Government declar'd for and set up upon And even the wise and well meaning Tories begin once again to smell a T d when you hold it so near their Noses But come proceed Tory. You are likewise accus'd of being wedded to a Party and by that means will reduce his Majesty to be King of a Faction only of his Subjects Whig This will appear much otherwise if you will please to remember who brought in the E. of N. to be Secretary of State and many others of that Party and how few of your Faction were displac'd by the Whigs when they had Interest with the King But this Charge will appear most foully true upon you who by the basest Ingratitude and Villany fell upon undermining those who brought you into the Government the minute you were possess'd of the King's Ear. And yet you see notwithstanding all your barbarous Treatment of us We have always come in chearfully to all Votes for Money all Loans and all other Measures to support your Credit and the Common Interest till both are fallen so low that the Peoples Clamours were never so loud nor their Dissatisfactions never so great You like Solomon's Harlot are for tearing the Government asunder if you may not have the Possession of it We have shew'd on the other hand true Motherly-Tenderness and consented rather that it should remain in your Possession entirely than be torn in pieces betwixt us till it appear'd to all the World what a vile Step-Mother you have been and how you have starv'd and abus'd a Government worthy your most indulgent Tenderness and Care And yet I am not for refusing any Tory that gives Proof of his sincere Repentance and of a Love to his Country but with all my Heart would give my share of the fatted Calf to make the returning Prodigal welcome tho I cannot but think it reasonable that you should submissively seek the Government and not the Government submissively seek you that you should own your Sin against Heaven and against your Country and give Security of another course of Life for the future and not justify your Faults and persevere in them If I could see amongst any of you the least Consideration for the common Good and Benefit of Mankind and the universal Welfare of your Fellow-Creatures to which you are bound by the Law of God and the Law of Nature and to which all the Heathens who were not barbarous paid a most profound Reverence and Obedience and preferr'd to all private Interest to Wives Children Estate nay to Life it self If I can find any amongst you a Lover of his Country a sincere Supporter of the Laws Liberties and Interest of the English Nation I am as much his Servant tho he be a N a C or a R as if he were a S a R a S or a T But instead of shewing any Regard to the Interest of the Nation any Bowels for your Country any Self-denial in point of private Interest Have you not sold your Country and their Birth-rights upon all occasions like Esau for a Mess of Pottage Have not some of you put off Human Nature Human Reason and all common Honesty so far as to conspire to bring in a French Power to gratify your private and personal Piques To bring in Popery and Slavery to rule over you because you cannot Tyrannically rule over your Fellow-Subjects Remember what the Presbyterians got by being so active in restoring the two late Popish Kings hoping to be reveng'd thereby upon the Independents and other Dissenters Were they not mingled in the same Persecution with the others nay more oppress'd and mark'd out for Wrath as being more numerous and more considerable than any other Sect Just so must the Church and their Proselytes expect to fare from the Hands of their Popish Friends whose Cause they are so zealously propagating they may admit them to the Honour of being the Cat's-foot but not a bit of the Chesnut No Whig no Fanatick but will then have as fair Quarter at least from King Lewis as you for King Iames I take to be only a Cypher and Property to your French Lord and Master who when he hath finished his Work will finish his Life too And do you Iure Divino you truly Loyal Gentlemen think that you will find more Favour then for being more attach'd to King Iames's Interest No be assured the most inveterate Enemies of King Iames will meet with as favourable a Treatment at least as you who have professed your selves so violently enamour'd of King Iames's Person and of the right Line Reflect a little upon the King of France's Conduct at the time of the late Revolution He knew long before the Prince of Orange's design of making a Descent into England and could have prevented it a thousand ways but instead of that he writes to Barillon then his Ambassador in England to know in what Condition King Iames was to oppose the Prince's Forces He being a Foreigner and judging only by outward Appearances represents the Army of King Iames sufficiently powerful to resist what Force the Prince of Orange could bring whereupon the French King believing that the English and Dutch would by this means weaken and destroy one another and leave a fair Game for him the next Year against the Emperor and Flanders and to take away all Apprehension from the Dutch of their needing an Army for their own Defence and to give all Encouragement to their Design upon England he draws all his Troops from the side of Flanders and falls upon Philipsburg which Army if he had marched towards the Spanish Frontiers in Flanders the Dutch durst not have transported a Man and the whole Design of the Descent had been at an end From hence it is plain what Friendship the French King had for his dear Brother King Iames and what you may expect from this Man of Honour and good Nature when you have serv'd his Turn Come grow wise and honest and let us not divide under this or that Ministry under this or that Faction or Party but let us all unite against the common Enemy let us make the Publick Interest and the Support of the Government as it is established by Law our chief and only Aim and for all Projectors and Conspirators whether for a Commonwealth a French Tyranny or any other Tyranny I wish they were all hang'd on the same Tree the first for Fools the others for Miscreants and Villains And thus much and no more am I for being wedded to a Party Tory. I own you have told us a fair Tale but nothing is
violently oppos'd your Majesty's being crown'd King as to lay an eternal Obligation on K. I. by it I say Sir is it reasonable to believe this Gentleman so proper a Secretary of State to your Majesty as the E. of S. who hath so mortally disobliged K. I. by being so early and so zealous in your Interests who went at the Head of that Message to K. I. wherein he was required to retire from Whitehall who hath since that been so instrumental to place and preserve the Crown upon your Head and hath in a word broken all Measures so with K. I. as to leave no Possibility of a Reconciliation to him and consequently hath no Retreat from this Government but is oblig'd in common Sense to serve Your Majesty faithfully and zealously Or can your Majesty think Mr. K. who it is generally said believes himself the Son of K. I. and it is known by all the World owes his Fortune to him who if we may believe Report at the time of the Revolution agreed with Captain Tosyer to carry the Ships he then commanded in the Straits to K. Iames in France had not the common Sailers very rudely oppos'd the Project who after this acquitted himself so ill at Cadiz in letting the Thoulon Squadron pass by him in his sight without fighting them and to conclude hath made so unaccountable a Campagne of it this Summer can your Majesty give me leave to say Sir think this Gentleman after all this fitter to command the Fleet of England than Mr. R. whose Provocations to K. I. are never to be forgiven by him who was one of the most instrumental Men in England in placing You upon the Throne who last Year gave you the greatest and most glorious Victory that ever was obtain'd by us at Sea and whose Courage Conduct and Fidelity the Parliament of England hath unanimously attested And now Sir If I may presume so far will Your Majesty be pleas'd to examine what Honour what Profit hath accrued to You or the Nation by your employing these Gentlemen who have of late been at the Head of the Ministry For God's sake Sir cast up the Account of the last four Years Management and see what You have gain'd by changing VVhigs for Tories Have not Your Affairs gone backward both at Home and Abroad Have not Mismanagements been multiply'd Have You not cool'd Your Friends and yet not gain'd your Enemies Do not almost all the Tories You employ drink K. Iames's Health in Your Wine and serve Him in Your Offices Do They not obstruct all Business which ought to be dispatch'd and dispatch all Business which ought to be obstructed browbeat Your Friends and delay them in their most just Pretences but comply with your Enemies in their most unreasonable Demands nay connive at their Cabals and Conspiracies and snatch them out of the Hands of Justice when the Law hath pass'd Sentence of Death upon them for their Treasons Would not such Ministers and Friends as these be less dangerous to You when profess'd Enemies nay in Arms against You in the Field than in your Council Cabinet and Offices Undoubtedly they would But I know the common Answer to all these kind of Complaints is That it is more easy to find Faults than Remedies If You please therefore Sir we will consider of Remedies and I think there may be some found out both easy and certain and they are these First Sir be pleased to remove from your Person Council and Offices of Trust Men bred up and confirm'd in Principles destructive to our English Government and hateful to Your People and to discountenance all State-Projectors and Mountebank-Ministers who make Wounds in the State to recommend their Balsam Throw out Sir these Achans to be ston'd by the People who will otherwise I fear prevent God's Favour to You who blast Your Success Abroad and rob You of the Affections of Your Subjects at Home with their Accursed Thing I mean that Tinsel Power with which these Miscreants dazle the Eyes of Princes and lead them out of the right way God is displeased with it For uncontroulable and unaccountable Power is the Right and Attribute of God alone and as the Scripture tells us He will not give his Glory unto another nor suffer those to act as Gods who are to die like Men. Your People also will be displeased with a Despotick Power for the Kings of England are bound by Laws by Mutual Compacts c. as You your Self Sir have set forth most unanswerably in your Declaration when You came over and if these are broken English-Men who believe themselves Subjects to the Crown of England as by Law establish'd and not Slaves to any particular Person they become impatient angry and at length perhaps unreasonable And whenever they see their King beset with Ministers of Lawless Principles those wholesale Merchants of Arbitrary Power they grow mistrustful and uneasy and are apt in such Cases to shut their Purses and open their Mouths And give me leave to say Sir had not the People been made apprehensive and jealous by seeing these Men in the Ministry whose mischievous Methods they were so well acquainted with and did so much abhor no general Excise no Loans no Powers would have been thought by the People of England too much to have intrusted You with so highly they esteem'd your Generous Relief of them your unequal Courage and the many other admirable Vertues they saw shine in You. An English King is the greatest Monarch upon Earth when he reigns in the Hearts of his Subjects and all other Methods to Power and Greatness have been found ineffectual in England I remember I once saw written over a Mercer's Shop Keep thy Shop and thy Shop will keep Thee and tho it be a homely Allusion it is very applicable to the present Point Keep your Laws Sir and your Laws will keep You support your People in their Rights and Liberties and Queen Elizab●th shall pass her Royal Word for them they will support Your just Prerogative at Home and Your Honour Abroad And Sir by the way do not let Your Flatterers give You a cheap Opinion of a Power deriv'd from the People for it is undoubtedly from their Consent that all Power must come Nor let them make You uneasy that Your Title to the Crown is from the universal free Choice of the Commons of England Believe me Your Ministers nor the two Learned Bishops who have scribled upon this Subject will never be able to find You a better In the next place Discharge all Iacobites and Trimmers from Offices of Trust For such as either desire K. Iames or from their Fear or Wisdom endeavour to deserve from him so much as their Pardon I humbly conceive are unfit for Your Service at this Juncture tho when the Government is more settled I am for entertaining all who give Proofs of their Penitence for their past Actions and Opinions But Sir Purgatives will not alone perfect the Cure
of your Government and restore it to perfect Health You must make use of Alteratives too there must be a Change of Measures as well as a Discharge of Men And the Method I would humbly offer is this First To make the Interest of England your chief Design and Aim and since You are an English King to become entirely an English Man England is a Nation jealous of Rivals in her Prince's Favour and thinks her self deserving of all his Care and all his Caresses If the People of England think You have a favourable Opinion of them they will endeavour to deserve it if not they may perhaps deserve your worst Opinion too This Humour of the Nation Queen Elizabeth found early and apply'd her self so happily to it as by this single Point to master all her Difficulties the greatest it may be that ever Prince had to struggle with whereas her Successors by contrary Measures brought themselves into very unfortunate Circumstances In the next place Sir let me desire You to avoid concerning your Self in Elections of Members in Parliament or influencing them when chosen the Parliament is a sacred part of the English Constitution and like the Israelites Ark of old is not to be touch'd profanely but with great Danger to those who touch it so And therefore Sir it will be your true Interest to leave the People free to their Choice and to leave the Members free to their Opinions when they are chosen It is still-fresh in our Memories how much the Practices of the late Reigns in corrupting Elections and Closeting the Members of Parliament enrag'd the Nation and they had reason to resent it for if for the sake of a Vote a Member of Parliament shall be placed in an Office of Trust he is not fit for this is destroying the Government two ways at once For to speak in the Phrase of the Ministry it is making a Parliament of Clouts and an Officer of Clouts at the same stroke Rejecting Bills offer'd by Parliament of publick Benefit and for the securing of our Antient Government and the Fundamental Rights of the Subject was highly displeasing to the Nation also in the late Reigns and will be so in all Reigns As was likewise the denying the People their undoubted Right of frequent Parliaments They had also in the late Governments an Invention to make a Pump of the Parliament and by pouring in a Pint of Water to fetch out a Tun This was justly most provoking to the Nation and treasur'd up Wrath against the Day of Wrath. The refusing of Bills and the Contempt of Addresses from the Parliament against Ministers or in any other cases hath likewise given great Offence in former Reigns For tho the House of Commons seconded by the House of Lords cannot reach the Life of Estate of any Person but by a full Proof in form of Law yet because it is so difficult a matter to come at such a Proof a Vote of the House of Commons against any Minister hath always been esteem'd by all Kings who were well with the People a sufficient Reason for the removing them from Court and I have heard that our King Henry the Fourth a Warlike and a Wise Prince upon an Address from the Parliament against some of his Ministers reply'd I know no Evil by these Men but if they are thought unfit by my Parliament for my Service I shall not think fit to continue them in it All these things Sir therefore are most carefully to be avoided by your Majesty They will appear with a worse Grace in You who have declar'd and made War against these Practices than in your Predecessors For as St. Paul says Thou who hast said Ye shall not commit Adultery dost thou commit Adultery Thou who hast said Ye shall not steal dost thou steal You must by no means Sir give this occasion of Clamour and Recrimination to your Enemies But be pleas'd to follow this General Rule always to beware of the Ministers and to avoid the Schemes and Counsels of K. Charles and K. Iames's Government and then You can scarce err For whatever is opposite to their Principles and Practices is the direct Road to your Security and Success In the next place Sir let Rewards and Punishments be duly and impartially distributed this is a Rule to which all Ages and Governments have paid the greatest Respect and Observance and to which the present Monarch of France does chiefly owe the Prosperity of his Affairs and without this Principle no Government can subsist Your Ministers who serve You well and faithfully must be distinguish'd from those who betray You or serve You carelesly and idely and not smil'd or frown'd upon as they are supported or persecuted by this or that Party or Faction And by the way Sir a Prince in England that rules according to the Laws and Interests of his People will never have occasion to make his Court to any Party or Faction nor can any Minister or any Party serve You against the Interest of the Nation Let your Souldiers be encourag'd and preferr'd according to their Bravery and Abilities without Favour or Affection The Bravest otherwise will follow the Example of Cowards if they find they have no Advantage over them by their Courage For all Men would be Cowards if they durst To an English Souldier a Smile or a kind Word is as acceptable at some times as a Month's Pay and if you will condescend to a Commendation of what they do well they will endeavour in the next occasion to exceed what they did before For if You are once Master of their Love Your are sure to have the Disposal of their Lives Nor need You fear to punish them severely provided You reward them bountifully Let the Insolence of your Enemies be rebuk'd and Rebels and Traitors to your Government be severely punish'd and not courted and caress'd for in the present State of Affairs all Mercy to your Enemies is Cruelty to your Self and Friends and it encourages your Enemies and disheartens your Loyal Subjects to see these Insolents brave the Government unpunish'd and to see your treacherous Ministers solliciting the Pardon of every condemn'd Traitor and making their Court to K. I. at the Price of your Safety is most provoking to every good Man Besides it looks like your having a Doubt of your own Right and Title to the Government to be thus backward in asserting it and is so interpreted by the Iacobites Intelligence is another Point of mighty Consequence and can scarce be purchas'd too dear For it is the Soul of Government and directs all its Actions properly and without it You consult in the dark and execute blindfold You know not what to act what to fear where to attack or where to defend I do not mean by this that we are to penetrate into the French King's Counsels or rifle his Cabinet that I am afraid is out of the reach of our Power and of our Purse But I cannot but think
we may be able to know the Marches of their Armies and the Motions of their Fleets without selling our Souls to the Devil for Intelligence or breaking our Exchequer Thus Sir I have set before Your Majesty what in my poor Judgment is for your Interest to pursue and what is for your Service to avoid what will make your Majesty and this Nation happy what will make both unhappy and I heartily pray the Great Good and Wise God to direct bless and prosper your Majesty in all your Glorious Designs for the Defence of these Kingdoms and of Christendom against the common Enemy If I have us'd too great a Freedom or have offended in what I design'd for your Service I am sorry for it I call God to witness my Plainness proceeded from my Zeal and Affection to your Interests and the Prosperity of your Affairs and not from any factious saucy or unmannerly Principle I wish some abler Pen had taken upon them this Part. But I must own it provok'd me to see my Country and my King so forsaken the one of Advocates the other of honest Counsel and this urg'd me to take upon me those two Characters of Advocate and Adviser both which I confess my self very unfit for Not but that as I said in the beginning I take it to be the Privilege nay and the Duty too of every English Subject provided it be perform'd with a decent and due Respect to lay before the King such Matters as may be dangerous to his Person or Government to be conceal'd from his Knowledg for we are not ty'd up in England to Spanish Forms where the King must be wet to the Skin if he whose proper Office it is be not in the way to put on his Cloak And I beg your Majesty to believe what I have said is from a Faithfulness and Sincerity which will in all Accidents and Difficulties preserve me unalterably Your Majesty's most Loyal most Dutiful and most Obedient Subject To the Honest English Protestant READER Honest Reader AT the beginning of the late Revolution I dare say it was not expected by thee or me That it would have been necessary in this Reign to have enter'd into Argument whether the Principles of Whig or Tory are most agreeable to the Constitution of the English Monarchy or which Party were to be chosen for the Support of our present King and Queen But such is our Fate that I am afraid it requires an abler Pen than mine to convince some who it is highly necessary should be convinc'd that any of the Measures of the late Reigns were mistaken they are taught to believe those Monarchs in the Right nay even those evil Counsellors too which were so m●ul'd in the Declaration of 88 and none are Rogues and Villains and deserve to be hang'd but those who were most active in the bringing the present King and Queen over and in setting the Crown upon their Heads I thought it therefore high time that this Matter should be set right and in order to it that the Principles and Practices of Whig and Tory should be truly and impartially examin'd which I have endeavoured to do to the best of my Knowledg and shall be well pleased to see any other do it better from my poor Hint I acknowledg the Looseness of the Style the want of Method in the following Paper and the many Repetitions this Dialogue way of writing is liable to will lay it open to the Lash of every Pedant and School-master But know I write not for Fame or out of any Vanity of being an Author And therefore I come not to you as the Apostle says in the enticing words of Man's Wisdom but in Plainness and in Truth c. I have stated the Matter so fairly that some of the Tories may be Fools enough perhaps to think I have given them a Victory and triumph as their Admirals did in their being gazetted because the Council was so favourable as to suffer them to pass for mistaken Block-heads instead of wilful knavish Liars But indeed I thought the Tories had so weak a Plea that I might well allow them to make the most of it and have left nothing unsaid which I have ever heard them say in their Defence What they have done the honest People and the Interest of England most Mischief by is that Sham of a Commonwealth which I have in the following Discourse I hope convinc'd all honest Men is a false Notion impracticable and impossible in England however this is the Breast-work which they have always cover'd themselves with when they designed to fire upon the Rights and Privileges the Laws Liberties and Properties of their Country And whenever they do raise this Breast-work we must endeavour to beat it about their Ears I am sure it is too weak to resist any Attack and I hope as Bays say They fly They fly They fly who first did make that Lie What I have here written is with an honest Design of doing Service to my Country and if it either happens to inform or convince any to embrace the Publick Interest and the common Good of themselves and Fellow-Creatures I have my end And for the Tory Criticks they may bite till their Teeth meet through my Book yet I shall be as insensible of their Malice as they have been of the King's Mercy Favour and Friendship to them I will comfort my self honest Reader that I have thee on my side and so long as thou dost continue firm in the supporting the English Laws and Liberties thou dost build upon a Rock against which I hope the Gates of Hell shall not prevail and so long I will build upon thee and hope for all Good from thee and pray for all Blessings upon thee Adieu A DIALOGUE between Whig and Tory c. Tory. WEll met old Acquaintance Who would have thought seven Years ago to have seen you and I at White-hall together in the same Interest Whig In the same Interest Why who thinks that now Tory. What in one of your old peevish Fits I thought now all things go to your Mind you would have been in better Humour Whig You were begotten born and bred in Mistakes and I doubt not but you will continue so to your end yet you cannot be so gros●y mistaken sure as to think all things go to any honest Englishman's Mind when you who were the Tools of the two last Reigns the Instruments of all our past and present Misfortunes and the declar'd Cause of the War which brought on the late Revolution are notwithstanding the only Men courted by this Government Tory. I am afraid you will never be pleased with any Monarchical Government Whig That is a Point I know you have been long endeavouring to put upon the World but more industriously upon the Court yet I wonder at your Impudence of urging it now since it is so fresh in every Man's Memory how zealously the Whigs struggled in the late Convention to settle the
Monarchy whilst you contested as zealously to make it an Anarchy Tory. We will talk more of this by and by But if you were so instrumental as you say in setting up this Government why are you so out of Humour with what you have made your selves Whig Disappointment you must allow a just Cause of Resentment We hop'd from new Lords new Laws new Ministers and new Methods But if still we are to have the same Ministers and consequently the same Methods the very Tools of the two last Reigns and consequently the same Work this I take in my Lord H s Phrase to be a Change without an Alteration and in my Opinion gives too just occasion of Dislike and I cannot but think this way of managing Affairs must end unhappily both to Prince and People Tory. But how come you and I to be so concern'd either for the Prosperity of Princes who never think of us but as we can serve some present Turn of theirs or for the Interest of Mob who will sing Ballads upon us under the Gallows when we are hanging there for their sakes Prethee Whig grow wise and do not torment thy self thus with State-Affair● let Princes take Care of themselves and the People of themselves and let us take Care of our selves My Method is to get what I can and let Courts do what they will Whig Why then Sir with your good leave your Method is as foolish as it is knavish For whoever sells his Country to a ●awless Power leaves himself nor his Family no Certainty no Property in what he hath gotten by his Treachery nay his Estate is as often the Snare as the Comfort of his Life It proves sometimes a Naboth's Vineyard and makes him the Eye-sore of some hungry Court-Favourite And I would ask Whether a small Estate fenc'd about with Laws and the Possession thereof secur'd to you and your Family is not of more Value than a much greater Revenue of which you cannot assure your self the Possession one Minute Your Fore-Fathers thought the Laws and Liberties of England worth their Care and Contest and waded through Rivers of Blood to leave them in force to their Posterity And the Church once made it an Article of their Religion Nolumus Leges Angliae mutari But thou dost renounce all the Principles of Humanity of common Sense and of Religion and oughtest to be driven out of a Country which thou makest open Profession to sell and betray And as for what you say of the Ingratitude of Princes and People the one to his faithful and affectionate Subjects the other to their zealous Patriots this does not discharge you from your Duty to either But in Answer to the first if you will serve Princes no farther than you serve your Country in serving them that Service will always reward it self and for the Mob as you are ever pleas'd most mannerly to call your Country-men and Fellow-Citizens if any prove so sordid as you alledg I shall answer you in the Words of our Saviour Forgive them for they know not what they do And let his Example teach you better Principles who notwithstanding all the Scoffs and Indignities he met with laid down his Life upon the Cross for the Benefit of Mankind But your Principles make you the Triumph of Heathens and bring you upon the same foot with Brute Beasts Tory. Come don't tell us Stories of our great Grandsires who troubled themselves about Trifles There is a Fashion in Government as well as in Clothes which must be comply'd with according to the Humour of the present Age and you may as well pretend to shape all Gowns by Queen Elizabeth's Fardingale as to shape our Courts or Counsels according to the Sentiments of that or other Times which were as different too from one another as we are different from them Whig As for your Fashion of Government Mr. Tory I hope it is either gone to the Grave with K. C. or to France with K. I. and could heartily wish you would follow it to either places But pray before you go let me ask you in what Age and Time it was That Men of Sense or Men of Honour did prefer Will and Pleasure to Laws or Slavery to Freedom As I take it the Principles of Liberty and Property have always been in Fashion amongst Men of Sense and Estates in England and ever will be But your Principles can never find Professors but amongst Fools and Beggars Tory. Whatever our Principles are you find both them and us preferr'd to you and yours even by a Government of your own choosing And let that satisfy you as an Answer to that Point Whig Not at all that only proves a Mistake some where And where the Mistake is if you please we will enquire and I think it will best appear by examining the original Rise Principles and Practices of both Parties Tory. Come on then a clear Stage and no Favour Whig As for your original Rise 't is certain you owe your being known in the World to the horrid and execrable Designs of the two late Kings to set up Arbitrary Power and Popery amongst us then were all the Jails Brothels and Kennels raked for Villains of ●ear'd Consciences and desperate Fortunes your Arl ns Clif ds Of s were then thought upon for Ministers of State and under them were bred such a pack of Wretches as the Court of Tiberius would have been asham'd of In the Law they were of the same sort with the Ministry What Age can parallel your N ms your N ths your Ieff ys Sc gs Rain ds Wri s c. and their under Managers Gra m and Burt n c. Then as to the Pillars of what they then called the Church of England tho so disguised at that time that it was scarce known by its most dutiful most affectionate and most pious Children I need say no more of them than that they were composed of Bishops and a Clergy preferr'd by two Kings who were about to set up Popery and Tyranny And therefore were to choose such Men into the Government of the Church who they thought would be most complying with those Purposes and whose Looseness of Morals might bring most Discredit upon the Protestant Religion and whoever remembers Park r Cart t or knows Cr w and Wat n will I think be of the Opinion they were not ill chosen for the abovesaid Purposes Tory. But you see whatever Purposes they were chosen for several of the Bishops opposed Popery with the greatest Bravery imaginable Whig True they did oppose a Popish Clergy being brought into their Bishopricks Churches and Colleges and who but a mad Man would have expected any other from them But did they ever stick at any thing that might advance Arbitrary Power over the Laity Did they not conjure the People to Passive Obedience Non-resistance c. Did they not tie us Hand and Foot and throw us like Daniel into the Lions Den Nay did they ever stick at
him a King of Clouts a Duke of Venice c. Thus by misrepresenting the King's best Friends he made way to bring in his old Practices and his old working Fools whom he represented to be Men of Business and Friends to Monarchy into this Court too and being assisted afterwards by the E. of N. and some others ye have indeed carried all before you and how much to the Interest of the Nation and the Honour of the King let all the World judg who have seen this poor Kingdom every Year for this last four Years brought to a reasonable Apprehension of being invaded from Abroad betray'd at Home and in a word to subsist only by a Miracle Tory. All this rambling Story you have told is a wild Supposition and straining the Intention of this noble Lord to your own malicious Purpose who design'd nothing more in bringing in these Gentlemen you call the King's Enemies than by reconciling them to the King and his Government to make the Foundation of it broader and deeper And I know not how this comes to be such a Crime and so ill Policy with us I have heard that Henry the Fourth of France who was esteem'd a wise and Politick Prince thought it very good King-Craft to caress his Enemies of the League and to make his Court to the Jesuits Whig And pray what did he get by it Did he ever gain either of them heartily into his Interest Were not those of the League ever ready to plot with the Spaniard c. against him And for his dear Friends of the Church not all his Renunciation of his old Religion and his old Friends not all his Gifts his Caresses and his Courtship could reconcile them to him or so much as save his Life when they had it in their Power to destroy it For those jealous Gentlemen the Iesuits never would believe they had his Heart till it was sent them in a Box to Le Fleche to be buried there Tory. But notwithstanding your Iesuits Tale of a Tub I will undertake that all the Tories as you call them in England both Clergy and Lay-men shall take the Oaths to the King and serve him heartily provided he will do one thing Whig What 's that Tory. Utterly discard you Whigs and give us the Penal Laws again upon the Fanaticks Whig And would that make the Foundation of the Government broader and deeper as you talk'd just now Besides have you not heard a Story of one Sampson Sir who after he had resign'd his Lock of Hair in which his Strength lay was delivered up to his Enemies by those he had trusted But supposing what you propose if granted might win you to be Williamites were King Iames dead yet I am mistaken if whilst he lives and the King of France continues as powerful as at present you will ever be drawn by any Courtship to engage so far in the Interests of this Government as to swear otherwise to the King than as King de facto nor will you make your Reconciliation to King Iames desperate Answer to this Point plainly and truly Tory. Wise Men will always secure a Retreat and Self-preservation is a first Principle with all Men. And as a Gentleman said wittily upon this occasion As long as the Government can maintain it self and will maintain me it is sure of me But I have liv'd too long at Court to die a Martyr for any Monarch and will always behave my self so in one Court as to be well with the next And tho perhaps this is not all that this Government might reasonably wish from us yet I can tell you they do not believe that they shall mend themselves by changing us for you for divers and sundry Reasons Whig Pray let us have some of them Tory. First because you are for a Commonweath-Government and Haters of Monarchy Whig That is that we are mad Men and void of all common Sense and Reason for whoever hath either of these will know a Commonwealth a Chymera impracticable and impossible to be brought about in England If Machiavel be of any Authority he says in his 55 th Chapter upon Government That where there is not an Equality in the Conditions and Estates of a People it is impossible for that People or Nation to erect and settle a Commonweath He gives you Examples to confirm this but I think there are some more to our purpose as being more recent and nearer home Upon the Revolt of the Low-Countries from the Spanish Yoke it was necessary for them to put themselves under some Form of Government and the Form being in their own free Choice seven of the seventeen Provinces who were a Trading sort of People much upon an Equality in their Condition and Fortune and had few Families of Nobility or Gentry among them fell naturally into a Commonwealth-Government But the other ten Provinces having great numbers of Nobility and Gentry tho they were more immediately under the Tyranny of the Spaniard and had been more particularly sensible of D'alva's Cruelty and Oppression notwithstanding chose rather to continue under the hated Government of Spain than to accept of the Invitation the other seven Provinces had made them of coming into the more hated Project of a Commonwealth so impossible it is to reconcile Men distinguished by Titles and Fortunes to mix themselves in a common Level with the People upon any Consideration or Disgust whatsoever And whoever will look over what passed here in England from the Year 1648 to the Year 1660 will be yet more convinc'd of the Truth of this Assertion and of the Nonsense of any Commonwealth-Design in this Nation Perhaps there was never at any time so many Men of strong Inclinations for a Commonwealth-Government as then nor of greater Abilities to effect such a Design And yet they found the Nobility Gentry and Dignified Clergy such a Rub in their way as no Art no Force could remove and at last they were brought into that Confusion and Disorder by attempting it that the very People and Army who were in this Project of a Commonwealth and had overthrown the Monarchy in order to it and could support Cromwell in a single Person yet after his Death saw a necessity of restoring the Monarchy again and assisted towards it But this was the Dust which the two last Courts threw into the Peoples Eyes when they would make them blind to Arbitrary Power and Popery And is now one great Artifice the Iacobites depend upon whereby to separate the Friends of this Government from its Support tho it will always be a Jest to understanding Men. I have heard a Story of a Lady who passing through a Crowd to her Coach and having a rich Jewel on her Breast cover'd the Jewel with one of her Hands which a Pick-pocket in the Crowd observing steps up to her and claps his Hand upon a Place below which he thought would oblige her to remove her Hand from her Breast to defend it
But the Lady apprehending the Thief 's Design very prudently neglected the false Attack and apply'd both her Hands to the s●curing her Jewel and by that means came off safe And so Gentlemen whenever you make your false Attack upon our Commonwealth we shall for the future take it for the Signal to us that your real Aim is at our Liberties and Properties and shall apply both our Hands and Hearts to the securing those Jewels of inestimable Price But to be serious in our case the Whigs as I said in the beginning of our Discourse have given sufficient Proof how little they design'd a Commonwealth and how hearty they were to the Monarchy in their struggling so zealously to set the Crown on the King's Head Tory. We own you were for giving him the Name of a King But after all speak sincerely Did you design to make him any more than a King of Clouts a Duke of Venice or a Statholder Whig We design'd to make him as great a King as the Laws of England and our Ancient Constitution make any King And if you pretend to make him more take the Honour of it But Sir upon this occasion your Party were for making his present Majesty less than either a Duke of Venice or Statholder of Holland For in proposing to make him a Regent you make him only a Journy-man-King a Subject to King Iames and accountable to him But what the Whigs did to deserve being suspected of a Commonwealth-Design or of any Intention to lessen the King's just Power I am yet ignorant Tory. You are wilfully so then for what could the meaning of the Convention be to settle the Revenue of the Crown from three Years to three Years and to take away the Revenue of the Chymney-Money one of the fairest Flowers of the Crown but lessening the King's Power and making his Government precarious Whig The Chimney-Tax being grown a Grievance more sensible and more odious to the common People than any other and the danger of being enslav'd by giving such great Revenues for Life to the two last Kings by which they were enabled to maintain standing Armies and to subsist without Parliaments was so fresh in the Memories of all thinking English-Men and so apprehended by them that the King's Friends thought it greatly for his Service to take away the Burden of the one and the Apprehension of the other from the People and by using different Methods to those which had been follow'd in the former Reigns To make his present Majesty's Government more acceptable to all good Men and that He might hereby reign in the Hearts of his Subjects and be distinguished by them which Method if pursued would have given us a fairer Prospect of our Affairs than at present I am afraid we have But this is not the Interest of wicked Ministers who when Kings take these Courses lose their Dominion over them their business is therefore to make Princes jealous of Encroachments of Parliaments of Commonwealth-Designs amongst the People to represent the King's Interest separate from the Interest of his Subjects and then to ingratiate themselves with him and raise themselves in his Opinion for their Parts and Abilities they offer him Schemes of Politicks to prevent Designs against him which were never thought on Thus these honest Iago's first work a Prince up to Jealousies and Hatred of his People by false Suggestions and then as a Remedy against the Mischiefs they have suppos'd put him upon Designs ruinous to his Country and himself But in the mean time by appearing thus zealous for what they call the King 's particular Interest and Glory they insinuate themselves into some sort of Princes Favour they become Confidents of all Court-Intrigues and grow great and rich they dispose all Offices and crush all who are not their Creatures and at last come to awe and govern Kings themselves As Waiting-Women who when they have debauched their Mistresses by their Mercenary Sollicitations and are become the Trustees of their Frailty they no longer taste the Busk nor bitter Reproofs for misplacing of a Pin or Patch but from Servants become Mistresses no Faults are then found with them no Liberty denied them even the Purse and the rich Petticoat is absolutely at the Waiting-woman's Service till at last they bring their Mistresses to Infamy and Beggary And so to return to the Ministry again By this kind of Management they make their Masters Kings of Clouts necessitous miserable and despis'd Princes For Example What made the late King Iames a King of Clouts but those Evil Counsellors who put him upon Despotick and Dispensing Power and propagating a Religion against Law Who put him upon preferring Papists and Irish to Protestants and English Who advised his seizing Colleges and Charters setting up High-Commission-Courts and making Parliaments and Laws a Nose of Wax Deny this if you can Mr. Tory. Nay as to your Idol-King Charles the Second who notwithstanding I believe much the worse of the two Brothers as sinning against a better Understanding and greater Obligations was it not by these Counsels and some of these Counsellors that this Gentleman was made a King of Clouts too from having all the Advantages at the time of his Restoration that ever King was blessed with He was belov'd delighted in and courted by his Subjects was respected Abroad in Plenty and Power at Home and could direct the Votes of a Parliament with a Nod more than he could at last with his Exchequer yet after all this in a few Years by the Management of some of our present Evil Counsellors who gave him ill Impressions of his Subjects made him out of Love with Parliaments and poison'd him with Lawless Power and Love of Tricks the worst of Poisons to an English King who for their own filthy Interest perswaded him to sell Dunkirk break the Triple League and enter into Measures with France destructive to the Interest of this Nation and of all Europe By these Measures he at last became distasteful to his Subjects and was forsaken by a Parliament the most attach'd to him and in love with his Person to a Fault so that at last his Necessities drove him to become a Pensioner to France And if you will believe Mr. Dreyden his Poet-Laureat concluded his Reign in these miserable Circumstances of being despis'd Abroad and living on Tricks at Home And how these Gentlemens Father and Grandfather were made Kings of Clouts by the like Measures and the like Ministers by endeavouring at Lawless Power and laying aside Parliaments c. even the Histories of those Times publish'd by their own Authority make it out plainly And now Mr. Tory if you please we will examine a little into the few Examples we have of Princes who have practis'd a contrary Method to the before-mentioned one we will enquire what Effects that sort of Government hath produced and we need go no farther I think than Queen Elizabeth's Reign the immediate Predecessor to the Scotish Race
I know not what some hot-headed drunken Men may have said and done at the Bath or elsewhere but this I know that a whole Party ought not to share the Miscarriages of some few particular Men. Whig You are in the right if that were the case but it is undeniable that this Insolence is universal and even amongst those of you employ'd and paid by the Government Tory. This is a sore Place I find you are ever complaining of But why are you angry with us for being in Places Did we seek them Were we not sought courted intreated to accept of Employments And since you provoke me I 'll tell you the Reason the King found none of you Whigs capable of or fit for Business he saw you too of a sowre morose Temper jealous of Prerogative affecting Popularity childishly fond of Trifles and tenacious of Lawless Liberty whilst we are frank and easy in all these Matters and know the Respect that is due to Crown'd Heads Whig That is when they are rightful Tory. Come you will make no Prince have the worse Opinion of us for that The Right Line Passive Obedience and Non-Resistance Prerogative c. will always sound well in every King's Ear. And when he considers us Enemies to his Title only out of a Principle of Loyalty he will have reason rather to accuse his own Misfortune than our Vertue we plainly and honestly told him our Principles that we believ'd him a King de facto only and our Honour in this Point made him rely upon our Honour in others Whig Let us examine then how honourably how gratefully you have behav'd your selves to a King who hath relied on you and oblig'd you so extreamly We will pass by those who refuse to swear Allegiance to him upon the above-mentioned honourable Pretences and only mention those who have accepted Employments of Profit and Trust. Have not even those in the Government both in England and Scotland been plotting the Dethroning this King who hath trusted them so generously and courted them so kindly Particularly did not one of your Party at the beginning of this Government give notice to the King's Enemies of Warrants against them in order to their making their Escape and was discharg'd his Employment upon it Did not a Brother of a certain Secretary give out Blank Passes under the Hand and Seal of that Secretary by which a Correspondence was carried on betwixt this Place and France securely And was not this Gentleman upon this Account laid aside gently and privately and this Matter huddled up for fear of any Reflection upon our Monarchical Favourites and put upon the Publick as Passes forg'd as indeed they were by our own Officers and a Lame Proclamation put out with Rewards to the Discoverer but without a Pardon for Life when they knew the whole Matter before-hand H●ve not some Women lately been taken going to France with Letters to King Iames with a Scotish Secretrary's Pass under his Hand and Seal Was not an Officer of the Post-Office lately found corresponding with France and without any other Punishment for his Capital Crime laid aside gently and privately The Story of Capt. Iohn Layton late Commander of the St. Albans and which hath been told in the House of Commons will shew you how faithfully you Tories serve the Government and how fit you are to be trusted Captain Layton being ordered to Cruise twenty Leagues off Vshant by a Storm of Wind was driven to Cape Clear where he met a French Privateer and took her the Captain of the Privateer ask'd Layton the Name of his Ship which he told him upon this the Privateer looking into his Pocket-Book ask'd Layton how he came there for by his Intelligence the Station of the St. Albans was to be twenty Leagues from Vshant and no further And the like Story is told of a Transport-Ship going to France with Prisoners some few Months ago who meeting with divers Privateers ask'd them how they durst be so bold as Cruise there when four English Men of War were within six Leagues of them they reply'd they knew the Station of those English and that they could not come where they were a cruising but by breaking their Orders But the Relation of the Sailer who was taken and for some time serv'd aboard an Irish Privateer is yet more remarkable for he deposeth That they told him thee Months before the Streights Fleet sailed from Spithead both the time when they were to sail the number of their Convoy and likewise that the Main Fleet was to go no further than beyond Vshant Now how they could come by this Intelligence but from Officers imploy'd by and sworn to the Government I know not and if so how faithfully and honourably you Tories serve Those who trust you and how fit you are to be employ'd in this critical Time I appeal to all the World Tory. These are malicious Stories and if strictly enquired into will prove false I dare say Whig Whenever there is a Committee of indifferent Men ordered to take the Examination I am inform'd all this will be proved and much more and how reasonable it is to expect this and any other Treachery from you will appear probable to those who see you in all Offices daily and publickly drinking King Iames's Health who see one Clerk going to a non-swearing Doctor to take Advice whether he may serve the Government as a writing Clerk without Damnation to his Soul Yes replies the Doctor for thereby you keep out an ill Man and may serve your rightful King upon occasion To see another Clerk valuing himself to his Companions that his Place thank God does not oblige him to take the Oaths to the Government To see Officers of the greatest Trust in the Admiralty in Clubs twice a Week with Mr. P ps Mr. Ew rs and other known Iacobites and from Saturday to Monday constantly living with them Night and Day Tory. I know who you mean one of them is a Nephew to one of the Gentlemen and expects 40000 l. from him and would you have him renounce such an Expectance in Consideration of your Place Whig No but I would have the Government renounce such an Officer that had such an Expectation from such an Unkle Tory. But where could you get such able Officers if these were discharged Whig As the case stands one honest Man will be of more Service than ten such able Men the Forms of Business will be quickly learned and want of Experience will be less fatal to us than want of Fidelity Most of the under-Places require a very indifferent Understanding and little Experience to carry the Business on And if you ascend to the Ministry I cannot help thinking my Lords Sh y or Sir I. Tr d as able Secretaries as the E. of N. and Mr. R ll as able an Admiral as Mr. K. c What is it your able Men have done for us pray this four Years Was ever any Government in so promising a