Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	alexander_n	king_n	queen_n	2,958	5	8.7799	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A67435	The controversial letters, or, The grand controversie concerning the pretended temporal authority of popes over the whole earth, and the true sovereign of kings within their own respective kingdoms : between two English gentlemen, the one of the Church of England, the other of the Church of Rome ...	Walsh, Peter, 1618?-1688.	1674 (1674)	Wing W631; ESTC R219375	334,631	426

by Election or succession or Force came to be Emperors I mean till the Empire was translated to the West for as he had a great hand in that translation he has ever since appeared more but I speak of the times before And all this is evident beyond all dispute Reconcile this who can with Constantins Donation If he put the Pope in possession of the Western Provinces how could he bequeath them to his Son And if he put him not in possession how could he be said to give them It is a mockery not a gift to say these Provinces are yours which I keep to my self during life and dispose to others after my death Livery and Seisin are pretty material circumstances in such conveyances where nothing can be understood to pass without them If Constantine gave them the Pope must have had them and that he had them not is as plain as History can make any thing where it is particularly with uniform consent recorded in whose hands these Western Provinces were what changes hapned from time to time and by what means from the death of Constantine till the Arms and favour of France under Pipin and his son Charles put into the Popes possession most of what he has It is known and by Bellarmine himself confest that Popes during those times were Subjects at least de facto which is enough for our present purpose there needing no more to shew they had not those Countries which Constantine is said to have given to them Not but that both he and divers others after and before him too were extreamly munificent to the Church by which munificence much Land in several places was setled on her by way of Alms and actually in her possession But she enjoy'd the revenues only of those Lands Administration of Justice and all Regalities were reserv'd to the Temporal Lords This has deceiv'd some who finding mention of Possessions belonging to the Church in former Ages imagined they so belonged to her then as they do now with entire and independent subjection Whereas till Popes were by the liberality and power of the French rais'd to the state of Temporal Princes the Lands of the Church were in the same condition with the estates of other Subjects the immediate owners receiving the Profits and both their Lands and Themselves subject to the supreme Lord. They were given to other Churches as well as Rome for maintenance of the Clergy and Poor for the expences of buildings and reparations and Divine Service and that so plentifully that some refused offered Patrimonies others restored what they once had not willing to be burthened with more than was needful These Lands paid publick duties as other Lands did till the Laws exempted them But these things are besides the matter To return to our Argument if the successors of Constantin continued the only known Masters of those very Countries which are said to be given away if Popes acknowledg'd them for such as well as the rest of the World and never so much as put in any claim or pretended any thing to the contrary And all this be so plain that nothing can be plainer no fiction can be more palpable nor more wild than this of Constantin's Donation It is undeniably evident that neither Popes nor Emperours nor any body else in those dayes knew any thing of it And it is as evident that they must know of it if it had been at all At least if they did not none else could in after times This Donation was not heard of in the World till long after Baron ad an 1191. n. 52. Marca de Conc. Sacerd. Imp. l. 3. c. 12. Baronius thinks the pretended Charter forged by the Grecians after the tenth Age Marca by the Latins in the time of Pipin and by his consent to stop the mouths of the Grecians who made instance that the Lands recovered from the Lombards and by Him given to the Church should be restored to the Empire However it be for the Time or Author of the fiction that the Charter is a meer and late forgery is acknowledged both by Baronius and by most of the learned men even of the Popes Communion That the Donation cannot be pretended with any shew of Reason but in force of the Charter is plain For 't is next to madness to say the West was given and produce no Evidence of the Gift Any man may claim any mans Estate with as much colour and the Pope from such a claim can expect no more success than another man But there is nothing which can be alledged in proof of this Donation besides this Charter Wherefore the whole business of which you seem to be jealous is in it self a pure Chimera absolutely contradicted by the course of Nature and consent of History and the only Evidence producible for it acknowledged a forgery by our selves And if this give you much disquiet I cannot but think you wonderful fearful Let the worst come to the worst 't is not the case of England alone France and Spain and Germany were Western Provinces as well as Britain and as much concern'd as we While we have such Outworks we need not much fear our Fort. The truth is our safety depends in reality on them For let his Right be never so good till it have seiz'd on them it cannot fasten on us and when it has we cannot escape let it be never so bad Mean time I think you may sleep quietly on the noise which will be made in the World when any of these Countries leave their native Princes and become subject to a Forreigner and quit their long setled Customs and Laws and Liberties in reverence to Constantin's Donation will wake you time enough But if you sleep till then you will go near to be the 8th sleeper and alone out-slumber all the seven Thus far of our Journey we have good company with us and the best part of Christendom being of the Caravan travel with security enough But now the Road parts and we must shift for our selves Henry II. say you from Baronius acknowledged the Kingdom of England Fendatory to the Pope in a Letter extant in Petrus Blesensis You might have added the Cardinals Comment upon the Popes confirmation or rather approbation of K. Stephen's election which he says was therefore mentioned in the Coronation Oath because the Kingdom was feudatory to the Pope Baron ad an 1135. 21. so that every new King receiv'd confirmation from him Which also was acknowledged by Hen. II. in the Letter of Blesensis Ad an 1172. n. 5. Besides he produces afterwards from the Acts of Alexander III. a clause of the Oath made at the conclusion of the difference upon the death of S. Thomas of Canterbury wherein the Kings both Father and Son are made to swear That they will receive and hold the Kingdom of England from the Pope and neither they nor their successors repute themselves Kings of England till the Popes for

to satifie them all And as the Schools go now it is not hard to say almost any thing As men are of several tempers I will not deny but some may be truly perswaded of your Doctrines and defend them with an upright conscience thinking that to exalt the Pope is truly advantageous to Religion and beneficial to the World But I believe you will not find many so qualified Those you have named are some the Popes own Subjects most Italians or Spaniards upon whom He is known to have particular influence and if we judge that in this exalting the Pope they might have an eye to the preferment of themselves I think it will be no rash judgment Of latter times those have appeared the chief sticklers in this quarrel who are thought to have the greatest dependance upon Rome So that of all produced and produceable in behalf of those opinions I deceive my self if the number be not shamefully inconsiderable against whom there lies not a just suspicion of interest and of whom it may not reasonably be judged that Hopes or Fears or something besides pure Conscience swayed their judgments And Interest you know is a just exception against a Witness in all Courts As for private men what would you have them do Consider that all Catholics look upon the Pope as the chief Bishop in God's Church and supreme Pastor of the whole Flock If they hear any thing said over-lashingly of him can it be expected they should be forward to speak what they think til a due occasion urges them Or have less respect for him than common civilitie uses to every body For when any thing is said advantageous to a person with whom we converse if we believe it not we keep our thoughts to our selves and think it rudeness to oppose it to their faces Besides as I said at first this medling of private men with the concern of Princes is the Flies playing with the Candle Withrington quite burnt his wings Walsh has fairly sing'd them and if people learn wariness by the harms of other men I conceive they are not blameable As frightful and threatning as the Idea is which you have made of this danger no Prince that I know thinks it great enough to deserve that they should interpose and I think the man very foolishly wise who will pretend to understand their concerns better than themselves or better know what is fit to be done People of our private Sphere see but one thing Princes see that one thing in likelihood better than we and a hundred more of which we never dream and till they stir themselves for private men to obtrude their politic Ignorance upon them is so far from laudable that it is well if it be pardonable neither will their forwardness signifie more than an over busie diligence and peradventure saucy unquietness The old Monks wise counsel Sinere res vadere ut vadunt is as necesiary in the world as a Cloyster Besides for English Catholics in particular they have somewhat more reason to keep silence while their speaking is sure to be discountenanced on the one side and not sure to be protected on the other You may perceive by Caron's Collection that Catholicks are so much mealy mouthed men towards the Pope when there is fit occasion to speak what they think and God forbid that Forreiners should be better Subjects than English men I am sure they were Catholics who declared in Parliament that the imperial Crown of England is and at all times has been free from all subjection to the Pope And provided the Statute of Praemunire against such abuses as were then found inconvenient And they were Catholicks who refused to repeal this Statute in the days of Queen Mary when other Laws made against the Popes Authority were taken away But if you will have a touchstone of the fidelity of English Catholics look a little upon the year 88. The Pope had stretched his Authority as far as it would go and proceeded to Excommunication Deposition and Absolution of his Subjects from Obedience to her down right Commands to assist her Enemies and this Authority was backt by the Power of a great Prince in their thought and language invincible Besides the Title of the Queen born in time of a Marriage declared lawfull by the Pope was not free from dispute which carried the inclination of Catholics to the Title of Scotland since happily introduced and which I hope will long happily continue and this was if I mistake not the true reason of the jealousie and severity of those times against them Notwithstanding the unusual concurrence of so many and so great temptations They stood firm in their Allegeance and both our own and forrein Writers testifie that neither the subtil Arts of the Politic Spaniard or the enforcement of the Popes Authority could prevail to make any Party here but that the most learned and esteemed of the Priests by a solemn and authentic Writing acknowledged the Queen notwithstanding she was excommunicated and deposed by name to have still the same Authority and power as before and as much as any of her Predecessors and the Layty chearfully and universally offered to hazard their lives in defence of their Prince and Country and that as private Souldiers ther being too much suspicion in the jealousie of those times to pretend to commands In fine the Spaniards were so ill satisfied with them that the Duke of Medina Admiral in that expedition at his return plainly told the Dutchess of Feria an English Woman of the Family of the Dormirs that had he prevailed no difference had been made betwixt Catholics and others more than what the Sword could have found Of later times the whole Nation is obliged to bless God for the happy fidelity of some of them and we had still been groaning under our late miseries if this traiterous Religion had not principled even poor men into a fidelity stronger than the temptation of Gold And 't is not like the men who act thus would refuse to speak in fit occasion Things have been written even since the return of his Sacred Majesty which have been peradventure more zealous than seasonable but however which sufficiently discover the inclination of Catholics to say all that can be expected with reason from them when the conjuncture is proper In the mean time to consider the Dilemma you so earnestly recommend to me I must tell you it concludes not We are inexcusable say you if we renounce not those Positions when without injury to the Churches Authority or our own conscience we may Why so F A is there no excuse for an action but this that 't is unlawful People before they do any thing use to consider the Why as well as the What and examine not only whether the action be allowable but whether it be convenient But not to insist on this I will offer you a fair bargain Do you your part and I will do mine make it reasonable make