the Communion Tables stood as Tables in Ale-houses but he would have them to be set as High Altars Dr. Moor is to deliver these things in writing to Morrow morning At the Committee for Religion SIr William Bawstrod If we now speak not we may for ever hold our peace when besides the Queens Mass there are two other Masses dayly so that it is grown ordinarie with the out-facing Iesuits and common in discourse Will you go to Mass or have you been at Mass at Somerset-house there coming 500 at a time from Mass. Desires to know by what authoritie the Iesuits lately in Newgate were released Mr. Corington Doubts not but his Majesties intention was good in the Declaration lately published but I conceive it will be made use of onely to our disadvantage that therefore the Declaration made be taken into consideration Sir Richard Gravenor REports the proceedings of this House against Poperie the last Session and what fruits have been thereon Sir Rober Phillips If ever there were a necessitie of dealing plainly and freely this is the time There is an Admission of Priests and Iesuits as if it were in Spain or France this increase of Papists is by connivance of persons in Authoritie Nine hundred and fourtie persons in houses of Religion being English Irish and Scots in the Netherlands maintained by the Papists of England and of this I shall deliver the particulars that we may frame a Remonstrance to the King that unless there be some better performance of his Majesties late answers to so many Petitions our Religion will be past recoverie Mr. Corington That the Papists by Act of Parliament or Laws of State may be removed from their offices which we have just cause to suspect Mr. Selden moveth that these things may be debated in order and first for releasing the Iesuits that were arraigned at Newgate whereof one was condemned they were 10 in number which were Priests who had begun a Colledge here in London about Clarkenwell and these men could not attempt these acts of boldness but they must have great countenancers Secretarie Cook THat a Minister who is said to be himself having notice of these 10 and this Colledge intended to be kept at Clarkenwell That it is plain there was a place appointed for this Colledge and Orders and Relicts prepared This Minister made the King acquainted with it and I should not do my dutie if I should not declare how much his Majestie was affected with it His Majestie refers it to the special care of the Lords of the Councell who examining the same sent these ten persons to Newgate and gave order to Mr. Attorney to prosecute the Law against them That this Colledge was first at Edmonton removed from thence to Camerwell and thence to Clerkenwell Ordered That all the Knights and Burgesses of the House shall to Morrow morning declare their knowledge what Letters or other hinderances have been for the staying of proceedings against Recusants Mr. Long a Justice of Peace who is said to understand much in the business of the Colledge of Iesuits at Clarkenwell is sent for and examined saith by the appointment of Mr. Secretarie Cook he apprehended these persons and took their Examinations and saith further he heard they were delivered out of Newgate by order from Mr. Attorney That Mr. Middlemore or General Soliciter for the Papists hired this house for the Lord of Shrewsburie a Papist and that there are diverse books of account of payments and disbursments to the value of 300 pounds per Annum with diverse Recusants names who allowed towards the maitenance of this Colledge and these books and papers are in the hand of Mr. Secretary Cook Secretarie Cook saith he cannot so amply declare the truth of the proceedings herein untill he have leave from his Majestie One Cross a Pursevant is to be examined upon oath who declareth he could discover diverse stoppages of the execution of the Laws against Recusants Saturday 14. A Complaint against the Lord Lambert a Baron of Ireland and a Member of this House who being a Colonel of Souldiers in Midd. hath imposed Four pence upon every Souldier towards his Officers Charges and the Petitioner for refusing to pay was first set in the Stocks and after by the Lord Lambert committed to a Publick prison It is Ordered that the Lord Lambert shall be sent for to answer this Sir Iohn Epsley desireth leave to answer a Complaint that is in the Lords house of Parliament against him Mr Selden That the use was and citeth Presidents that no Commander could be called to the Lords House but it will trench much to the disadvantage of the Priviledge of this House and untill 18. Iac. there was never President to the contrarie That therefore this may be considered of by a select Committee Ordered that Sir Iohn Epsley shall not have leave Mr. Chancellor of the Dutchie stifly secondeth Mr. Seldens Motion Mr. Secretarie Cook I am as carefull to maintain a good correspondencie with the Lords as any man but connivances in this kind may overthrow the fundamental Rights and Liberties of this House Let it therefore seriously be considered of for this not onely concerneth the Right of this House but the Libertie of the Common-wealth Ordered a select Committee shall be appointed to consider this Mr. Chancellor of the Dutchie delivereth an answer in writing from the Lord Chancellor Trer. and Barons to the Message sent to them Mr. Kirton WE looked for Satisfaction but now you see a Justification of their actions I therefore desire now we may proceed to consider of their proceedings and whether ever the Court of Exchequer held this course before for staying of Replevies and whether these have been done by the Regal Prerogative of the King in his Court of Exchequer It is Ordered that a select Committee of Lawyers Chequer-men shall take this into consideration Mr. Selden We have delayed the proceeding with the Customers expecting some good success from the Chequer but finding it otherwise I desire the Customers may be called to the Barre on Munday next Which is Ordered At the Committee for Religion SIr Thomas Hobbie from the Committee reported for the examination of the Keeper and Clerk of Newgate concerning the Priests there being a Warrant under the Attorneys hand for the deliverie of the Persons a Warrant under the Lord Chief Justices hand according to a Letter which he received from the Lord of Dorset signifying that it was his Majesties pleasure that the Priest condemned should be reprived Another Warrant under the Attorneys hand that the Priests condemned should be reprived and also in the Kings name to release those other nine persons Sir Nathaniel Ritch I am confident the Grace of the King hath been abused in this that therefore the privie Counsellers of this House may know whether it were his Majesties direction It is moved that Mr. Secretarie Cook may first declare his knowledge in this One Cross gave intimation of these persons First
Majestie thereof and with bleeding hearts and bended knees to crave such speedy redress therein as to your own wisdom unto which we humbly submit our selves and our desires shall seem most meet and convenient what the multitude and potency of your Majesties Enemies are abroad what be their malitious and ambitious ends and how vigilant and constantly industrious they are in pursuing the same is well known to your Majesty Together with the dangers threatned thereby to your sacred Person and your Kingdoms and the calamity which hath already fallen and doth dayly increase upon your Friends and Allies of which we are all well assured your Majesty is most sensible and will accordingly in your own great wisdom and with the gravest and most mature Councel according to the exigency of the times and occasions provide by all means to prevent and help the same To which end we most humbly intreat your Majesty first and especially to cast your eyes upon the miserable condition of this your own Kingdom of late so strangely weakned impoverished dishonoured and dejected That unless through your Majesties most gracious wisdom goodness and Justice it be speedily raised to a better condition it is in no little danger to become a sudden prey to the Enemies thereof And of the most happy and flourishing to be the most miserable and contemptible Nation in the World In the discovery of which dangers mischiefs and inconveniences lying upon us we do freely protest that it is far from our thoughts to lay the least aspercion upon your Majesties sacred Person or the least scandal upon your Government for we do in all sincerity and with all joyfulness of heart not onely for our selves but in the name of the whole Commons of England whom we represent ascribe as much honour to your Majesty and acknowledge as much duty as a most loyal and affectionate people can do unto the best King for so you are and so you have been pleased abundantly to express your self this present Parliament by your Majesties clear and satisfactory answer to our Petition of Right for which both we our selves and our posterities shall bless God for you and ever preserve a thankfull memory of your great goodness and Justice therein and we do verily believe that all or most of those things which we shall now present unto your Majesty are either unknown unto your Majesty or else by some of your Majesties Ministers offered under such specious pretences as may hide their own bad intentions ill consequence of them from your Majesty But we assure our selves that according to the good example of your most noble Predecessors nothing can make your Majesty being a Wise and Judicious Prince and above all things desirous of the welfare of your people more in love with Parliaments then this which is one of the principal ends of calling them that therein you may be truely informed of the State of all the several parts of your Kingdom and how your Officers and Ministers do behave themselves in discharge of the trust reposed in them by your Majesty which is scarce possible to be made known unto you but in Parliament as was declared by your blessed Father when he was pleased to put the Commons in Parliament assembled in minde that it would be the greatest unfaithfulness and breach of duty to his Majesty and of the trust committed to them by their Countrey that could be if in setting forth the grievances of the people and the condition of all the parts of this Kingdom from whence they came they did not deal clearly with him without sparing any how near and deer soever they were unto him if they were hurtfull or dangerous to the Common-wealth In confidence therefore of your Majesties gracious acceptation in a matter of so high importance and in faithfull discharge of our duties we do first of all most humbly beseech your Majesty to take notice that howsoever we know your Majesty doth with your Soul abhor that any such thing should be imagined or attempted yet there is a general fear conceived in your people of some secret working and combination to introduce into this your Kingdom innovacion and change of our holy Religion more precious to us then our lives and what ever this World can affoard Our fears and jealousies herein are not meerly conjectural but arising out of such certain and visible effects as may demonstrate a true and real cause For notwithstanding the many good and wholsom Laws and provisions made to prevent the increase of Popery within this Kingdom and notwithstanding your Majesties gracious and satisfactorie answer to the Petition of both Houses in that behalf presented unto your Majestie at Oxford we finde there hath followed no good execution or effect but on the contrary at which your Majestie out of the quick sence of your own Religious heart cannot but be in the highest measure displeased those of that Religion do finde extraordinarie favours and respects in Court from Persons of great quality and power there unto whom they continually resort and in particuler to the Countess of Buckingham who her self openly professing that Religion is a known favourer and supporter of them that do the same which we well hoped upon your Majesties answer to the aforesaid Petition of Oxford should not have been permitted nor that any of your Majesties Subjects of that Religion or justly to be suspected should be entertained in the service of your Majesty or of your Royal consort the Queen some likewise of that Religion have had Honours Offices and places of Command and Authority lately conferred upon them But that which striketh the greatest terrour into the hearts of your Loyal Subjects concerning this point is That Letters of stay of Legal proceedings against them have been procured from your Majesty by what indirect means we know not and Commissions under the great Seal granted and executed for compositions to be made with Popish Recusants with inhibitions and restraints both to the Ecclesiastical and Temporal Courts and Officers to intermeddle with them which is conceived to amount to no less then a toleration odious to God full of dishonour and extream disprofit to your Majestie of great scandal and grief to your good people and of apparent danger to the present estate of your Majestie and of this Kingdom their numbers power and insolencies dayly increasing in all parts of your Kingdom and in special about London and the Suburbs thereof where exceeding many families of them do make their aboad and publickly frequent Mass at Denmark House and other places and by their often meetings and conferences have opportunities of combining their counsels and strength together to the hazard of your Majesties safety and the State and especially in these doubtfull and calamitous times And as our fear concerning change or subversion of Religion is grounded upon the dayly increase of Papists the open and professed enemies thereof for the reasons formerly mentioned so are the hearts of your
hither that by a timely provision against those great imminent dangers our selves may be strengthened at home our Friends and Allies incouraged abroad and those great causes of feare scattered and dispelled And because in all warlike preparations Treasure bears the name and holds the semblance of the nerves and finewes and if a finew be too short or too weak if it be either shrunk or strained the part becomes unusefull it is needfull that you make a good and timely supply of treasure without which all counsells will prove fruitlesse I might presse many reasons to this end I will but name few First for his Majesties sake who requires it great is the duty which we owe him by the law of God great by the law of Nature and our own Allegeance great for his own merit and the memory of his ever blessed Father I do but point at them but me thinks our thoughts cannot but recoyle on our consideration touched by his Majestie which to me seemes to sound like a Parliamentarie part or Covenant A Warre was advised here Assistance professed yea and protested here I do but touch it I know you will deeply think on it and the more for the example the King hath set you his Lands his Plate his Jewells he hath not spared to supply the War what the People hath protested the King for his part hath willingly performed Secondly for the Cause sake it concernes us in Christian Charity to tender the distresses of our Friends abroad it concernes us in honour not to abandon them that have stood for us and if this come not close enough you shall finde our Interest so woven and involved with theirs that the Cause is more ours then theirs If Religion be in perill wee have the most flourishing and orthodoxe Church if Honour be in question the steps and monuments in former ages will shew that our Ancestours have left us as much as any Nation if Trade Commerce be in danger we are Islanders it is our life all these at once lye at stake and so doth our safety and being Lastly in respect of the manner of his Majesties demand which is in Parliament the way that hath ever best pleased the subjects of England and good cause for it for Aides granted in Parliament work good effects for the People they be commonly accompanied with wholesome Lawes gracious Pardons and the like Besides just and good Kings finding the love of their people and the readinesse of their supplies may the better forbear the use of their Prerogatives and moderate the rigour of the Lawes towards their Subjects This way as his Majestie hath told you he hath chosen not as the onely way but as the fittest not as destitute of others but as most agreeable to the goodnesse of his own most gracious disposition and to the desire and weale of his people If this be deferred Necessity and the Sword of the Enemy make way to the others Remember his Majesties admonition I say remember it Let me but adde and observe Gods mercy towards this land above all others the torrent of Warre hath overwhelmed other Churches and Countries but God hath hitherto restrained it from us and still gives us warning of every approaching danger to save us from surprize And our gracious Sovereign in a true sense of it calls together his High Court of Parliament the lively representation of the wisdome wealth and power of the whole Kingdome to joyn together to repell those hostile attempts which have distressed our Friends and Allies and threatned our selves And therefore it behoves all to apply their thoughts unto Counsell and Consultations worthy the greatnesse and wisdome of this Assembly to avoid discontents which may either distemper or delay and to attend that unum necessarium the common Cause propounding for the scope and work of all the debates the generall good of the King and Kingdome whom God hath joyned together with an indissoluble knot which none must attempt to cut or untie And let all by unity and good accord endeavour to pattern this Parliament by the best that have been that it may be a pattern to future Parliaments and may infuse into Parliaments a kinde of multiplying power and faculty whereby they may be more frequent and the King our Sovereign may delight to sit on this Throne and from hence to distribute his graces and favours amongst his people His Majestie hath given you cause to be confident of this you have heard from his royall mouth which neverthelesse he hath given me expresse command to redouble If this Parliament by their dutifull and wise proceedings shall but give this occasion his Majestie will be ready not onely to manifest his gracious acceptation but to put out all memory of those disasters that have troubled former Parliaments I have but one thing to adde and that is As your consultations be serious so let them be speedy The Enemy is beforehand with us and flies on the wings of Succese we may dallie and play with the houre-glasse that is in our powers but the houre will not stay for us and an opportunity once lost cannot be regained And therefore resolve of your Supplies that they may be timely and sufficient serving the occasion Your Counsel your Aid all is but lost if your Aid be either too little or too late And his Majestie is resolved that his affaires cannot permit him to expect it overlong And now having delivered what his Majestie hath commanded me concerning the cause of this Assembly his Majestie willeth that you of the House of Commons repaire to your owne House to make choice of a Speaker whom his Majestie will expect to be presented unto him on Wednesday next at two of the clock The Speaker Sir John Finches Speech March 19. 1627. Most Gracious Sovereign YOur obedient and loyall Subjects the Knights Citizens and Burgesses by your royall Summons here assembled in obedience to your gracious direction according to their antient usage and priviledge have lately proceeded to the choice of a Speaker and whether sequestring their better Judgements for your more weighty affairs or to make it known that their honour and wisdome can suffer neither increase nor diminution by the value or demerits of any one particular Member in what place soever serving them omitting others of worth and ability they have fixed their eyes of favour and affection on Mee Their long knowledge of my unfitnesse every way to undergo a charge of this important weight and consequence gave mee some hope they would have admitted my just excuse yet for their further and clearer satisfaction I drew the curtains and let in what light I could upon my owne inmost thoughts truely and really discovering to them what my self best knew and what I most humbly beseech your royall Majestie to take now into consideration that of so many hundreds sitting amongst them they could have found few or none whose presentation to your Majestie would have been of lesse repute
this Land And when according to the Lawes and Statutes of this Realm redresse hath been sought for in a legall way by demanding Habeas Corpus from the Judges and a discharge or triall according to the Law of the Land successe hath failed which hath now inforced the Commons in this present Parliament assembled to examine by Acts of Parliaments Presidents and Reasons the truth of English Subjects Liberties which I shall leave to learned Gentlemen whose weightie Arguments I hope will leave no place in your Lordships memories for the errours and infirmities of your humblest Servant that doth thankfully acknowledge the great favour of your most honourable and patient attention The Argument made by M r Littleton at the command of the House of Commons out of Acts of Parliament and Authorities of Law expounding the same at the first Conference with the Lords concerning the Liberty of the Person of every Free-man My Lords UPon the occasions delivered by the Gentleman that last spake your Lordships have heard the Commons have taken into their serious Consideration the matter of Personall Libertie and after long debate thereof on divers dayes as well by solemn Arguments as single propositions of doubts and answers to the end no scruple might remaine in any mans breast unsatisfied they have upon a full search and cleer understanding of all things pertinent to the Question unanimously declared That no Free-man ought to be committed or detained in prison or otherwise restrained by the command of the King or the Privie Councell or any other unlesse some cause of the commitment detainer or restraint be expressed for which by Law he ought to be committed detained or restrained And they have sent me with some other of their Members to represent unto your Lordships the true grounds of such their resolutions and have charged me particularly leaving the reasons of Law and Presidents for others to give your Lordships satisfaction that this Libertie is established and confirmed by the whole State the King the Lords Spirituall and Temporall and the Commons by severall Acts of Parliament The authority whereof is so great that it can receive no answer save by interpretation or repeal by future Statutes And these that I shall mind your Lordships of are so direct to the point that they can bear no other exposition at all and sure I am they are still in force The first of them is the Grand Charter of the Liberties of England first granted in the 17 yeare of King Iohn and renewed in the 9 yeare of King Hen. 3. and since confirmed in Parliament above 30 times Cap. 29. the words are these Nullus liber homo capiatur vel imprisonetur aut diseisietur de libero tenemento suo vel libertatibus vel liberis consuetudinibus suis aut utlagetur aut exuletur aut aliquo modo destruatur nec super eum ibimus nec super eum mittemus nisi per legale judicium parium suorum vel per legem terrae These words Nullus liber homo c. are expresse enough yet it is remarkable that Matthew Paris an Authour of speciall credit doth observe fo 432. that the Charter of the 9. H. 3. was the very same as that of the 17. of King Iohn in nullo dissimiles are his words and that of King Iohn he setteth down verbatim fol. 342. and there the words are directlie Nec eum in carcerem mittemus and such a corruption as is now in the print might easily happen 'twixt 9. H. 3. and 28. E. 1. when this Charter was first exemplified But certainly there is sufficient left in that which is extant to decide this question for the words are That no Free-man shall be taken or imprisoned but by the lawfull judgement of his Peeres which is by Jury Peeres for Pares ordinary Jurours for others who are their Peeres or by the Law of the Land Which words Law of the Land must of necessity be understood in this Nation to be by due processe of Law and not the Law of the Land generally otherwise it would comprehend Bond-men whom we call Villains which are excluded by the word liber for the generall Law of the Land doth allow their Lords to imprison them at pleasure without cause wherein they only differ from the Free-men in respect of their persons who cannot be imprisoned without a cause And that this is the true understanding of those words per legem terrae will more plainly appear by divers other Statutes that I shall use which do expound the same accordingly And although the words of this Grand Charter be spoken in the third person yet they are to be understood of Suites betwixt partie and partie at least not of them alone but even of the Kings Suites against his Subjects as will appear by the occasion of the getting of that Charter which was by reason of the differences betwixt those Kings and their people and therefore properlie to be applyed to their power over them and not to ordinarie questions 'twixt Subject and Subject The words per legale judicium parium suorum immediately precedeing the other per legem terrae are meant of trialls at the Kings Suit and not at the prosecution of a Subject And therefore if a Peer of the Realm be arraigned at the Suit of the King upon any Indictment of Murther he shall be tried by his Peeres that is Nobles But if he be appealed of Murther by a Subject his triall shall be by an ordinarie Jury of 12 Free-holders as appeareth in 10. Edw. 4. It is said such is the meaning of Magna Charta By the same reason therefore as per judicium parium suorum extends to the Kings Suit so shall these words per legem terrae And in 8. E. 2. Rot. Parliam num 7. there is a Petition that a Writ made under the Privie Seal went to the Guardians of the Great Seal to cause lands to be seized into the Kings hands by force of which there went a Writ out of the Chauncery to the Exchequer to seize against the forme of the Grand Charter That the King or his Ministers shall out-law no man of Free-hold without reasonable Judgement And the partie was restored to his land Which sheweth the Statute did extend to the King There was no invasion upon this personall liberty till the time of King Edw. the 3. which was soon restrained by the Subject For in the 5. E. 3. cap. 9. it is ordained in these words It is enacted that no man from henceforth shall be attached by any accusation nor forejudged of life or limbe nor his lands tenements goods nor cattells seized into the Kings hands against the forme of the great Charter And the Law of the Land 25. E. 3. cap. 4. is more full and doth expound the words of the Grand Charter and it is thus Whereas it is contained in the great Charter of the Franchises of England That no Free-man be imprisoned or put out of his Free-hold nor of
also to the Nobles and their honourable Progenies to the Bishops and Clergie and their successours to all persons of what condition or sex or age soever to all Judges Officers c. whose attendance are necessary c. without exception of any person Fifth generall reason The fifth is drawn from the indefinitnesse of time the pretended power being limited to no time may be perpetuall during life Sixth generall reason The sixth à damno dedecore from the losse and dishonour of the English Nation in 2 respects First for their valour and prowesse so famous through the whole world Secondly for their industry for who indeavours to apply himself in any profession either of warre liberall science or merchandise c. if he be but Tennant at will of his Liberty And no Tennant at will will support or improve any thing because he hath no certain estate And thus it should be both dedecus and damnum to the English Nation and it should be no honour to the King to be King of slaves Seventh generall reason The seventh is drawn ab utili inutili for that it appeareth by the statute of 36. E. 3. That the execution of the statute of Magna Charta 5. E. 3.25 E. 3. are adjudged in Parliament to be for the profit of the King and of his people Rot. Parl. 36. E. 3. num 9. 20. And therefore this pretended power being against the profit of the King and of his people can be no more part of this prerogative Eighth generall reason The eighth generall reason is drawn à tuto for it is safe for the King to expresse the cause of the commitment 1. E. 2. de frang prison stat unt pasche 18. E. 3. rot 33. coram Rege Bildestons case rot Parl. 28 H. 6. nu 16. Acts Apost cap. 25. v. the last and dangerous for him to omit it for if any be committed without expressing the cause though he escape albeit the truth be it were for treason or felony yet the escape is neither felony nor treason But if the cause be expressed to be for suspition of treason or felony then the escape albeit he be innocent is treason or felony Ninth generall reason The ninth generall reason is drawn from the authorities 16. H. 6. tit Monstrans defaits 182. by the whole Court the King in his presence cannot command one to be arrested but an action of false imprisonment lieth against him that arresteth 22. H. 6.46 Newton 1. H. 7.4 the opinion of Markham Chief Justice to E 4. and the reason because the party hath no remedy Fortescue cap. 18. proprio ore nullus Regum usus est c. to commit any man c. 4. Eliz. Plowd Com. 236. the common Common Law hath so admeasured the Kings prerogative as he cannot prejudice any man in his inheritance and the greatest inheritance a man hath is the Liberty of his person for all other are necessary to it Major haereditas venit unicuique nostrum à jure legibus quam à parentibus 25. E. 1. ca. 2. Confirm Cart. all judgements given against Magna Charta are void Objections Upon Conference with the Lords the objections were made by the Kings Attorney First object That these resolutions of the House were incompatible with a Monarchy that must govern by the state Bracton Answ. Whereunto it was answered that nihiltam proprium est imperii quam legibus vivere And again Attribuat Rex legi quodlex attribuat c. viz. dominationem imperium quia sine lege non potest esse Rex It can be no more prejudice to the King by reason of matter of state for if it be for suspition of treason misprision of treason or felony it may be by generall words expressed viz. pro suspitione proditionis 2 object To blind those that are committed one cause must be pretended and another intended especially when it toucheth matter of state Answ. Whereunto it was answered that all dissimulation especially in the course of Justice was to be avoided and soundnesse of truth to take place and therefore David that was both a King and a Prophet prayed to Almighty God against dissimulation in these words Lord send me a sound heart in thy statutes that I be not ashamed where sound in the originall signifieth upright without dissimulation and shame followeth dissimulation when the truth is known Third object If a Rebell be attainted in Ireland and his children for safety and for matter of state be kept in the Tower what shall be returned upon the Habeas Corpus Whereunto It was answered First that their imprisonment might be justified if they could not find good sureties for their good behaviour Secondly It was charity to find them meat drink and apparell that by the Attainder of their father had nothing Fourth object Though his Majesty expresseth no cause yet it must be intended that there was a just cause Answ. De non apparentibus de non existentibus eadem ratio Fifth object First The King in stead of gold or silver may make money currant of any base metall Secondly He may make warres at his pleasure Thirdly He may pardon whom he will Fourthly He may make denizens as many as he will and these were said to be greater priviledges then this in question Answ. To the first it is denyed that the King may make money currant of base metal but it ought to be gold or silver Secondly It was answered admitting the King might do it his losse and charge was more then of his Subjects both in the case of money and in the case of warre The pardon was private out of grace and no man had dammage or loss by it so of the making of denizens the King was only the looser viz. to have single custome where he had double Thirdly it was a non sequitur The King may do these things ergo he may imprison at will Your Lordships are advised by them that cannot be daunted by fear nor misled by affection reward or hope of preferment that is of the dead By ancient and many Acts of Parliament in the point besides Magna Charta which hath been 30 times confirmed and commanded to be put in execution wherein the Kings of England have thirty times given their Royall assent Secondly Judiciall Presidents per vividas rationes manifest and apparant reasons we in the house of Commons have upon great studie and serious consideration made a grand manifesto unanimously nullo contradicente concerning this great Liberty of the subject and have vindicated and recovered the body of this fundamentall Liberty both of your Lordships of our selves from shadowes which some time of the day are long sometimes short and sometimes long again and therefore no Judges are to be led by them Your Lordships are involved in the same danger and therefore ex congruo condigno we desire a conference to the end your Lordships might make the like declaration as we
before them and mature deliberation taken by them Now plainly in that case of the 13. Iacob there is not so much as pretence of any debate at Bar or Bench. All that is reported to have been is reported as spoken upon the sudden and can any man take such a sudden opinion to be of value against solemne debates and mature deliberation since had of the point and all circumstances belonging to it which have within this half year been so fully examined and searched into that it may well be affirm'd that the learned'st man whatsoever that hath now considered of it hath within that time or might have learned more reason of satisfaction in it then ever before he met with Therefore the sudden opinions of any Judge to the contrary is of no value here Which also is to be said of that opinion obviously delivered in the Commons House 18. Iac. as M r. Attorney objected out of the Journal book of the House But besides neither was the truth of that report of that opinion in the Journal any way acknowledged For it was said in behalf of the House of Commons that their Journals were for matter of order and resolutions of the House of such Authority as that they were as their Records but for any particular Mans opinion noted in any of them it was so far from being of any Authority with them that in truth no particular opinion is at all to be entered in them and that their Clerks offend when ever they do the contrary And to conclude no such opinion whatsoever can be sufficient to weaken the clear Law comprehended in these resolutions of the House of Commons grounded upon so many Acts of Parliament so much reason of Common Law and so many Presidents of Record and the resolution of all the Judges of England and against which no Law written not one President not one reason hath been brought that makes any thing to the contrary And thus to this purpose ended the next day of the Conference desired by the Lords and had by a Committee of both Houses The Proceedings against the Earle of SUFFOLK 14. April 1628. MR. Kerton acquainted the House how that the Earle of Suffolk had said to some Gentlemen that M r. Selden had razed a Record and deserved to be hanged for going about to set division betwixt the King and his Subjects And being demanded to whom the words were spoken he was unwilling to name any till by question it was resolved he should nominate him He then named S r. Iohn Strangwaies who was unwilling to speak what he had heard from the Earle but being commanded by the House and resolved by question he confessed That upon Saturday last he being in the Committee Chamber of the Lords the Earle of Suffolk called him unto him and said Sir Iohn will you not hang Selden To whom he said for what The Earle replied By God he hath razed a Record and deserves to be hanged This the House took as a great injury done to the whole House M r. Selden being imployed by them in the conference with the Lords in the great cause concerning the Liberty of the Persons of the Subjects The House presently sent S r. Robert Philips with a message to the Lords to this effect He expressed the great care the Commons had upon all occasions to maintain all mutual respect and correspondency betwixt both Houses Then he informed them of a great injury done by the Earle of Suffolk to the whole house and to M r. Selden a particuler Member thereof who by their Command had been imployed in the late conference with their Lordships That the House was very sensible thereof and according to former Presidents made them truly acquainted with it and demaunded Justice against the Earle of Suffolk he read the words saying they were spoken to Sir Iohn Strangwayes a Member of their House After a short stay the Lords called for the Messenger to whom the Lord Keeper gave this Answer He signified the great desire and care of their Lordships to maintain and increase the correspondencies betwixt both Houses and as a Testimony thereof they had partly taken into consideration the charge That the Earle of Suffolk being a Man of great place and Honour had voluntarily protested upon his Honour and Soul that there passed no such words as those from him to Sr. Iohn Strangwayes And the Lord Keeper wished that their Lordships speedy proceedings in this business might testifie their love and good will to the Commons House The next day being the 15. of April Sr. Iohn Strangwayes made a Protestation openly in the House wherein he avowed that notwithstanding the Earls denial he did speak those words positively unto him and would maintain it any way fitting a Member of that House or a Gentleman of Honour They ordered that this Protestation should be entered into the Journal book and that a Committee should take into consideration what was fit for the House to proceed to for the justification of S r. Iohn Strangwayes and what was fitting to be done in this Case and to examine Witness of the proof of the words Upon the 17. day S r. Iohn Elliot reported what the Committee had done That they had sent for and examined Sr. Christopher Nevill who related that upon Saturday being in the Lords Committee Chamber the Earle of Suffolk said thus to him Mr. Attorney hath cleared the business and hath made the cause plain on the Kings side and further said M r. Selden hath razed a Record and hath deserved to be hanged and the Lower House should do well to joyn with the Higher in a Petition to the King to hang him and added as a reason For Mr. Selden went about and took a course to divide the King from his people or words to that effect And being asked whether he conceived that those words of dividing the King from his people had relation to the whole and general action of M r. Selden before the Lords or to the particuler of razing a Record he conceived they were referred to the general action They had examined one M r. Littleton who confessed he heard the Earle of Suffolk speak to a Gentleman whom he knew not words to this affect viz. That he would not be in M r. Seldens Coat for 10000 l. and that M r. Selden deserved to be hanged The second part of this Report concerned the particuler of S r. Iohn Strangwayes wherein though the Committee found no Witness to prove the words spoken to S r. Iohn Srangwayes yet there were many circumstances which perswaded them of the truth thereof 1. That the same words in the same syllables were spoken to Sr. Christopher Nevill and that the Earle as he called to him S r. Iohn Strangwayes so he called to him Sr. Christopher Nevill 2. That the Earle of Suffolk called S r. Iohn Strangwayes to him and spake to him was proved by S r. George Fane and S r. Alexander S r. Iohn
an accompt of my actions to none but to God alone It is known to every one that a while ago the House of Commons gave me a Remonstrance how acceptable every man may judge and for the merrit of it I will not call that in question for I am sure no wise man can justifie it Now since I am truely informed that a second Remonstrance is preparing for me to take away the profit of my Tonnage and Poundage one of the chief maintenances of the Crown by alleadging that I have given away my right thereof by my answer to your Petition This is so prejudiciall to me that I am forced to end this Session some few hours before I meant it being not willing to receive any more Remonstrances to which I must give an harsh answer And since I see to that end the House of Commons beginneth already to make false constructions of what I granted in your Petition least it be worse interpreted in the Countrey I will now make a Declaration concerning the true intent thereof The profession of both Houses in the time of hammering this Petition was no was to trench upon my prerogative saying they had neither intention nor power to hurt it Therefore it must needs be conceived that I have granted no new but confirmed the ancient Liberties of my Subjects yet to shew the clearness of my intentions that I neither repent nor mean to recede from any thing I have promised you I do here declare that those things which have been done whereby many had some cause to suspect the libertie of the Subject to be trenched upon which indeed was the first and true ground of the Petition shall not hereafter be drawn in example for your prejudice and in time to come in the word of a King you shall not have like cause to complain But as for Tonnage and Poundage it is a thing I cannot want and was never intended by you to ask never meant I am sure by me to grant To conclude I command you all that are here to take notice of what I have spoken at this time to be the true intent and meaning of what I granted in your Petition but especially you my Lords the Judges for to you onely under me belongs the interpretation of Laws for none of the Houses of Parliament either joynt or separate what new doctrine soever may be raised have any power either to make or declare a Law without my consent The Second Remonstrance Most Gratious Soveraign YOur Majesties most Loyall and Dutifull Subjects the Commons in this present Parliament Assembled being in nothing more carefull then of the Honour and prosperity of your Majesty and the Kingdom which they know doth much depend upon your happy Union and relation betwixt your Majestie and your people do with much sorrow apprehend that by reason the incertainty of their continuance together the unexpected interruptions which have been cast upon them and the shortness of time in which your Majestie hath determined to end this Session they cannot bring to maturity and perfection diverse businesses of waight which they have taken into consideration and resolution as most important for the common good Amongst diverse other things they have taken in especial care for preparing a Bill for the granting to your Majestie such a subsedy of Tonnage and Poundage as might uphold your profit and revenew in as ample manner as their just care and respect of Trade wherein not onely the prosperity but even the life of the Kingdom would permit but being a work which will require much time and preparation by conference with your Majesties Officers and with the Merchants not onely of London but also of other remote parts they finde it not possible to be accomplished at this time wherefore considering it will be much more prejudiciall to the right of the Subject if your Majestie should continue to receive the same without Authority of Law after the determination of a Session then if there had been a recess by adjournment onely in which case that intended grant would have related to the first day of the Parliament and assuring themselves your Majesty is resolved to observe that your Royall answer which you have lately made to the Petition of Right of both Houses of Parliament Yet doubting lest your Majesty may be misinformed concerning the particular case as if you might continue to take those subsedies of Tonnage and Poundage and other impositions upon Merchants without breaking that answer they are forced by that dutie which they owe to your Majestie and to those whom they represent to declare that there ought not any imposition to be laid upon the goods of Merchants exported or imported without common consent by Act of Parliament which is the right and inheritance of your Subjects founded not onely upon the most ancient and Original constitution of this Kingdom but often confirmed and declared in divers Statute Laws And for the better manifestation thereof may it please your Majestie to understand that although your Royall predecessors the Kings of this Realm have often had such subsedies and impositions granted unto them upon diverse occasions especially for the guarding of the Seas and safe-guard of Merchants yet the Subjects have been ever carefull to use such cautions and limmitations in those grants as might prevent any claim to be made That such subsedies do proceed from duty not of free gift of the Subject and that they have heretofore used to limmit a time in such grants and for the most part but short as for a year or two and if it were continued longer they have sometimes directed a certain space of cessation and intermission that so the right of the Subject might be more evident At other times it hath been granted upon occasions of War for a certain number of years with proviso that if the War were ended in the mean time then the grant should cease And of course it hath been sequestred into the hands of some Subjects to be imployed for the guarding of the coasts and it is acknowledged by the ordinary answers of your Majesties predecessors in their assent to the Bills of subsedy of Tonnage and Poundage That it is of the nature of other subsedies proceeding from the good will of the Subject Very few of your predecessors had it for life until the raign of Hen. 7. who was so far from conceiving he had any right thereunto that although he granted commissions for collecting certain duties and customes due by Law yet he made no commissions for receiving the subsedy of Tonnage and Poundage untill the same was granted unto him in Parliament Since his time all the Kings and Queens of England have had the like grants for life by the free love and good will of the Subject And whensoever the people have been grieved by laying any imposition or other charges upon their goods or Merchandizes without Authority of Law which hath been very seldom yet upon complaint in Parliament
I conceive it plain these Customers took the goods in their own right not in the Kings In this Priviledge is plainly broken wherein it is easily determined Mr. Banks In this case there is no interposing of the Kings Right and the King this Parliament hath declared as much That the Courts at Westminster do grant 12 days priviledge to any man to inform his Councel much more the Court of Parliament are to have their Priviledge The Kings Command cannot extend to authorize any man to break the Priviledges no more than it will warrant an entrie upon any mans Land without process of Law Mr. Soliciter If the King have no Right how can he make a Lease then this pretended interest of the Customers must needs be void and therefore the goods must not be taken on their own right but in the right of the King Mr. Selden If there were any right the pretended right were in the Subject First whether Priviledge in goods Secondly whether the right were in the Customers onely Thirdly whether priviledge against the King 1. If the Lords have no priviledge in Parliaments for their goods then have they no priviledge at all for they are priviledged in their persons out of Parliament 2. For the point of interest it is plain no kind of Covenant can alter the interest and questionless had the cause in the Exchequer appeared to the Barons as it doth to us they would never have proceeded as they did 3. If our goods may be seized into the Exchequer be it right or wrong we were then as good have nothing Sir Nath. Ritch 〈…〉 recorded the last Session and citeth other presidents in this House that a servant of a Member in Parliament ought to have priviledge in his goods Mr. Noy saith that these Commissioners had neither Commission nor Command to seize Therefore without doubt we may proceed safely to the other question That the priviledge is broken by the Customers without relation to any Commission or Command of the King Secretarie Cook saith It is in the Commission to seize but the Commission being read it is not found to be there Chancellor of the Dutchie saith Mr. Dawes mentioned that he seized these goods by virtue of a Commission and other Warrants remaining in the hands of Sir Iohn Elliot that therefore these Warrants may be seen whether there be no command to seize these goods Sir Nathaniel Ritch This days debate much joyeth me specially the motion made by Mr. Noy whereby it is plain we have a way open to go to this question without relation to the Kings Commission or Command and desire it in respect there appears nothing before us to incumber the question Chancellor of the Dutchie desires again these Warrants may be look into before we go to the question Mr. Kirton In respect this Honorable Gentleman presseth this so far that it may appear with what judgement this House hath proceeded Mr. Glanveil I consent these Warrants be sent for and read but withall if any thing arise that may produce any thing of ill consequence let it be considered from whence it doth come The Privie Councellers are contented with this Motion The Warrants being sent for and read it is plain there is no Warrant to seize Mr. Kirton If now there be any thing of doubt I desire those Honorable persons may make their objections Chancellor of the Dutchie I rejoyce when I can go to the Court able to justifie your proceedings I confess I see nothing now but that we may safely proceed to the Question Mr. Secretarie Cook saith as much Mr. Hackwell argueth against Priviledge in time of Prorogation Mr. Noy saith he had no doubt but that Priviledge was in force in time of Prorogation untill he heard this Argument of Prorogation of Mr. Hackwell and saith that he hath nothing from him yet that doth alter his opinion and citeth a cause wherein the Lords House hath this verie Prorogation adjudged the Priviledge Mr. Hackwell saith he is glad to hear it is so and he is now of the same opinion Decided by Question That Mr. Rolles ought to have Priviledge of Parliament for his goods seised 30 Octob. 5 Iac. and all sithence This Committee is adjourned untill Munday and the Customers to attend The Protestation of the COMMONS in Parliament on Munday 2. Mar. 1628. 1. WHosoever shall bring in an Innovation in Religion or by favour or countenance seek to extend or introduce Poperie or Arminianisme or other Opinion differing from the true and orthodox profession of our Church shall be reputed a Capital enemie to this Kingdom and Common-wealth 2. Whosoever shall counsel or advise the taking or leavying of the Subsedies of Tonage and Poundage not being granted by Parliament or shall be an Actor or an Instrument therein shall likewise be reputed an Innovator in the Government and a Capital enemie to the Kingdom and Common-wealth 3. If any Merchant or other person whatsoever shall voluntarily yield or pay the said Subsedie of Tonnage or Poundage not being granted by Parliament he shall likewise be reputed a Betrayer of the Liberties of England and an enemie to the same THE KINGS SPEECH in the House of PARLIAMENT Mar. 10. 1628. to Dissolve it My LORDS I Never came here upon so unpleasing occasion it being for the Dissolving of a PARLIAMENT therefore many may wonder why I did not rather choose to do this by my Commission it being the general Maxim of Kings to lay harsh commands by their Ministers themselves onely executing pleasing things But considering that Justice is as well in Commanding of Virtue as Punishing of Vice I thought it necessarie to come here to day to declare to you my Lords and all the world That it was onely the disobedient carriage of the Lower House that hath caused this Dissolution at this time and that you My Lords are so far from being causers of it that I have as much comfort in your Obedience manifested by all your carriage towards me as I have cause to distaste their proceedings Yet that I may be clearly understood I must needs say they do mistake me wondrously that think I lay this fault equally on all the Lower House for I know there are many there as dutifull Loyal Subjects as any are in the world I know that it was onely some Viâ—pers among them that did cast this mist of disobedience before their eyes although there were some there that could not be infected with this Contagion insomuch that some by their speaking which indeed was the general fault on the last day of the House did shew their obedience To conclude my Lords as those ill-affected persons must look for their reward so you that are here of the Higher House may justly claim from me that protection and favour that a good King bears to his Loyal and Faithfull Subjects and Nobilitie Now my Lords execute that which I Command you Lord KEEPER MY Lords and Gentlemen of the House of Commons the KINGS Majestie