Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	act_n	lord_n	parliament_n	4,338	5	6.4183	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78447	The censures of the church revived. In the defence of a short paper published by the first classis within the province of Lancaster ... but since printed without their privity or consent, after it had been assaulted by some gentlemen and others within their bounds ... under the title of Ex-communicatio excommunicata, or a Censure of the presbyterian censures and proceedings, in the classis at Manchester. Wherein 1. The dangerousness of admitting moderate episcopacy is shewed. ... 6. The presbyterian government vindicated from severall aspersions cast upon it, ... In three full answers ... Together with a full narrative, of the occasion and grounds, of publishing in the congregations, the above mentioned short paper, and of the whole proceedings since, from first to last.	Harrison, John, 1613?-1670.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.	1659 (1659)	Wing C1669; Thomason E980_22; ESTC R207784	289,546	380

appoints fofeitures in case of prophanation of the Lords day by Carriers c. that travel on the Lords day or by Butchers that sell or kill victuass on that day By all which you may plainly see if you will not shut your eyes that it is not against Law that a man may come to be punished twice for one offence Nay what hath been heretofore more ordinary then the High-Commissioners imprisoning fining and excommunicating for one and the same offence But yet you will have the latter Acts and Ordinances against drunkenness swearing prophanation of the Sabbath c. enjoyning punishment by the Civil Magistrate onely though they do not speak one word that tends to the repealing of the Ordinance for Church Government to have utterly taken off all power of Excommunication But this we must not so easily grant and yet we shall not be unready as there may be occasion to complain to the civil Magistrate of any lawless persons that are justly censurable with the censure of Excommunication the conjunction of the Civil and Ecclesiasticall Sword being sharper and longer then either of them alone The Gentlemens Paper Sect. VIII And you further proceed to make answer to our severall ensuing Quaeries but how fully and satisfactorily all may judge that have perused what hath formerly been said touching the civil sanction of your Government Our first Quaerie is Why Government in singulari Your answer is Because it is the onely Government that is established in this Church by Civill Authority This Answer hath been confuted before we shall say no more here to that But we are unsatisfied what you mean by this Church whether you mean this Church at Manehester where your Classis is or you mean the Church of England If you mean this Church of Manchester of your association it is establisht not so much by Ordinance of Lords and Commons in Parliament as by later Acts grauting the free exercise of Religion in Doctrine and Worship to all Churches and Congregations in their own way to all and all alike but such as are particularly cautioned against And so you in your Presbytery in your Church at Manchester are protected because you have possessed your selves of that Church But then others in other Churches and Congregations to wit Prestwich Burie Middleton and the like may say of their way of worship it is the onely Government which is establisht in this Church But if your meaning be of the Church of England and so we conceive by the subsequent words viz. That there is no other Government but yours owned as the Church Government throughout the whole Nation You are certainly mistaken and dare not maintain it that his Highness or his Council owns Presbytery and none but that Government But leaving the Civill Sanction you come to the divine right of Presbytery and prove it to be the onely Government in singulari because it is that onely Government which Christ hath prescribed in his word and what Christ hath thus prescribed must needs be de jure one and the same in every Church And Calvins judgement you say in this particular is so manifest by his works to the whole world that it needs no proof We have told you before of the form and order of Church Government appointed by the Council of Nice by Patriarch Arch-Bishop Bishop c. How this Government which we suppose you will not say is Presbyterian is in Calvins judgement not differing from that which Christ hath prescribed in his word And in his first Section of this Chapter he tells us of Bishops not one word of Elders chosen out of the people who should rule in the Church but Bishops that did all viz. make and publish Canons a note certainly of rule and jurisdiction in the Church in which saith he they so ordered all things after the rule of Gods word that a man may see they had in a manner nothing differing from the word of God And this form of Government did represent a certain Image of divine Institution Can Calvin say more for your Presbytery nay can he say so much then how manifest is his judgement for the jus divinum of your Presbytery that it is that Government in particular which Christ hath prescribed in his word Thus have we taken off your Calvin and Beza as above your modern Doctors for Fathers you have none and now you descend to the Assembly of Divines The jus divinum by London Ministers the provincial Synod at London Rutherford Gyllaspie to prove your divine right of Presbytery modern Authors of yesterday with whom you paint your Margent in abundance and may serve your turn amongst the ignorant and vulgar sort who measure all by tale and not by weight when others that know what and who many of them are will conclude you draw very near the dregs As for such as are lawless persons and who those be whether drunkards swearers unclean persons prophaners of the Sabbath such as will not subject themselves to the present Government c. all together or a part conjunctim seu divisim whether you will they are onely punishable by the Civil Magistrate you cannot exclude them the Church by any of your censures as we have said before The Animadversions of the Class upon it 1. WE did indeed proceed to make answer to your several Queries and desire the Reader to peruse the Queries you propounded to us in your first Paper and the answer we gave unto them and then to judge how satisfactorily we did it after he had fully weighed our answer and what you have said to take off the establishing of our Government by the civil Sanction But whereas your first Query was why Government in singulari and our answer given thereunto was because it is the only Government that is established in this Church by civil Authority you say this answer hath been confuted before but how strongly we shall leave it to the Reader for to judge But it seems this answer hath raised another scruple in your mindes for you are unsatisfied what we mean by this Church although in our answer we had sufficiently explained it it being that Church wherein the Prelatical Government formerly had been set up and wherein that being put down the Presbyterian was set up in its stead as the only Government that was owned as the Church Government for the whole Nation as we had told you and which words did sufficiently declare that by this Church we meant the Church of England This you confess is that which you conceive to be our meaning yet you quarrell at the word that so upon supposal that the Church of Manchester of our Association and where our Classis meets might thereby be understood you might take the liberty to tell us that our Church Government is not so much established by the Ordinance of the Lords and Commons in Parliament as by later Acts granting as you say the free exercise of Religion in doctrine and worship to

thought fit c. And doe therefore-ordain a Committee therein particularly nominated in stead and place of Commissioners The groundlesnesse of the mistake about settling the Presbyterial Government for three years onely that might arise from the proviso in this Ordinance is so clear to any common understanding that the bare recital of the sum of the matter of this Ordinance and the ground of making it doth make it so fully to appear that it were but lost labour to use any more words about it But we have particularly mentioned all that ever passed the Parliament so farre as we have either seen or heard of that hitherto concerned Church Government untill the year 1648 When the form of Church Government to be used in the Church of England and Ireland was agreed upon by the Lords and Commons Assembled in Parliament after Advice had with the Assembly of Divines and was ordered by them to be printed August 19. of the said year 1648. And this Ordinance wherein all that had passed the Parliament before in parts and at several times and what ever was but temporary by vertue of other Ordinances so far as was intended for continuance are moulded up into a complete body with a supply of sundry things that had been never mentioned nor published before in other Ordinances is without any limitation of time for its continuance and remains unrepealed to this day for any thing we have seen or heard to the contrary Nay we think as we shall touch upon anon That by the humble Advice assented to by his Highnesse this Ordinance as well as others receives strength But by this full account given we think we have made it sufficiently to appear that we have had the Authority of the civil Magistrate to bear us out in what we have acted since the first setting up of the Presbyterian Government untill this present Except there be any that can come forth and charge us to have transgressed the rules appointed by the Parliament for us to observe in our actings against which our own innocency onely shall be our defence It now remaines for your further satisfaction and our own vindication that we recite some things particularly out of the form of Church Government which we conceive are thereunto subservient In the very first Words of the Ordinance according to what we have before recited in the directions for the electing and choosing of ruling Elders and is there also to be found you may find it thus Be it ordered and ordained by the Lords and Commons in Parliament Assembled and by Authority of the same That all Parishes and Places whatsoever within the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales as well Priviledged Places and exempted jurisdictions as others be brought under the Government of Congregational Classical Provincial and National Assemblies c. Whence it is to us unquestionable That by vertue of this appointment such as live within the bounds of our several Congregations and Parishes are under the power of some one or other of the Congregational Elderships constituted by Authority of Parliament within our several Parishes And that all those that live within the bounds of our Classis mentioned before are under the power of our Classical Assembly constituted in like manner by the said Authority What power is given particularly to the congregational Elderships you may finde in the aforesaid form of Church Government and unto which we refer you onely we shall minde you That by vertue thereof they have power as they shall see just occasion to enquire into the knowledge and spiritual estate of any member of the Congregation to admonish and rebuke to suspend from the Lords Table those who are found by them to be ignorant and scandalous and to excommunicate according to the rules and directions after following And it is thereby ordained That the Examination and Judgement of such Persons as shall for their ignorance in the points of Religion mentioned in that Ordinance not be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is to be in the power of the Eldership of every Congregation All which will appear by the expresse Letter of the said Ordinance to any that will consult it and which not onely justifies all that is practised in that case by the several Elderships but also shews what grounds this Classis had for that which was mentioned in our Paper touching both what is therein appointed to the Minister about Catechizing Families and also concerning the Ministers exhorting such as in the several Families he should finde to be of competent knowledge and know to be of blamelesse life That they should present themselves to the Eldership The Trial and Judgement in this case not belonging to any one Minister alone but to the Eldership There are also rules and directions given in this Ordinance to be observed by the several Elderships concerning suspension from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper in cases of scandal which may be seen there particularly But there is no rule given that will allow either the Eldership or Classis according to the several powers to them therein granted either to warn before all or to excommunicate knowing and blamelesse men for their meer not presenting themselves before the Eldership The rules of this Government prescribe otherwise as we our selves must also needs professe that we are not conscious to our selves that we have given any just occasion by our management thereof That contrary to the expresse rules appointed therein to be observed by us and to the plain sense of the expressions used in our Paper of which afterward any such a thing should have been so much as supposed to have been intended from any thing there expressed Give us leave to proceed a little further to lay open the order that is prescribed in the above mentioned form of Church Government touching the order of proceeding to excommunication which as it will awarrant the publishing of mens names openly in the Congregation and warning them before all to reform being such as are justly censurable by the rules thereof and particularly where it prescribes that several publique admonitions shall be given to the offenders c. So it will awarrant us in any thing that is made censurab●e by that Paper of ours that was published To make this to appear as also to shew what reason we had to make known to the several congregations within our bounds what our paper held forth We shall here declare what offences are censurable with this greatest and last censure of Excommunication according to the order that is there prescribed and which as it requires that it be inflicted with great and mature deliberation and after all other good means have been essayed so it appoints in these expresse words That such Errours in practice as subvert the Faith or any other Errours which overthrow the power of Godlinesse if the party who holds them spread them seeking to draw others after him and such sins in practice as

Presbyterian Government were still in force and that those rules laid down in them awarranted all our actings and particularly what we had published in our several Congregations in our Paper and which whosoever doth not so start at because they are Ordinances of Parliament but that he keeps in his right mind he will see to be different things But you do still go on with your flowts and will needs have it to be that we went about to prove which is your own phrase and not ours our Government to be established by civill authority the first work we took in hand and that we are no further yet but going about to prove your own phrase again as if the matter must needs be as you say it is or therefore true because you represent it to be so after a scoffing manner Fifthly And when you have thus pleased your selves with your taunting expressions you now would profess to do us a kindness being willing to conduct us if possible into the good old way again by taking off our Government from the establishment of authority upon the proof whereof as you say so great a part of our answer doth insist But seeing the way you herein go as will appear anon doth quite overthrow all other Ordinances of Parliament as well as those that are for the establishment of the Presbyterian Government you must excuse us though upon your most earnest entreaty we dare not follow you in this your way being w●ll assured we should be then indeed out of our way quite Sixthly But now you come to answer to the Orders and Ordinances of Parliament by u●recited and so to the Ordinance of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament Aug 29. 1648 establishing the forme of Church Government to be used in the Church of England and Ireland and which remaines as we said unrepealed to this day and receives strength by the humble Advice assented to by his late Highness and which Ordinance was by us more especially insisted on But what is it that you alleadge to take away the strength of any Ordinance of Parliament that we made mention of in our answer In the first place you tell us that when we speak of a Government established by Law you hope we mean such as hath the strength and force of a Law to bind the free born people of this Nation and thereupon you question whether our Ordinance of the Lords and Commons though unrepealed to this day be of that force and touching this you referre us to the judgement and resolution of the Sages of the Law affirming that nothing can have the force of a Law to bind the people without the concurrent consent of the three estates in Parliament and you instance particularly in the Lord Cook and several passages in his Institutes In answer unto all which we must needs in the first place as we did in our answer to your first Paper apologize for our selves that being no Lawyers we shall not take upon us to determine any Law case and that our cause in this particular were fitter to be pleaded by the learned in the Law that have farre better abilities for it then we have only till some of these undertake in this particular to plead for us we hope we may be allowed freely to speak for our selves And here we shall not say all that we could much less what persons better able to deal in an argument of this nature might But that which we shall say is first something in the general then we shall proceed to answer more particularly In the generall we say two things 1. That if the Ordinances of Parliament for Church Government be of no force because there was not the concurent consent of three Estates to the making of them then all Ordinances of Parliament without exception of any are null and void and of no force to binde the people as well as those that concern Church Government and so it concerns all Committees that have been throughout the Land and those that have acted under them or do yet act and all Judges and Justices that have acted or do act upon any Ordinance of Parliament to consider what they have to say to what you do here alledge against their proceedings as well as against ours Nay then the Act made Anno 1650 for Relief of Religious and peaceable People that yet is afterwards much insisted on by you is of no force for to that questionless there was not the concurrent consent of three Estates in Parliament 2. That the Parliament themselves who made these Ordinances declared That the King having not onely withdrawn himself from the Parliament but leavied war against it salus populi was suprema Lex and thereupon by Ordinance of Parliamēt they proceeded to settle the affairs both of Church and State without his consent yea and to repeal some former acts and as they did expresly when they passed the Ordinance for the Directory for Worship repealing the Acts of Parliament that had been passed formerly for the Book of Common Prayer as appears by their Ordinance for that purpose of Jan. 3d 1644. And also when they passed another Ordinance Octob. 9. 1646. for the abolishing of Arch-Bishops and Bishops within the Kingdom of England and Dominion of W●les by which they are expresly dis●nabled to use or put in ure any Archiepiscopall or Episcopall jurisdiction or authority by force of any Letters Pattents from the Crown made or to be made or by any other authority whatsoever any Law Statute usage or custome to the contrary notwithstanding as appears from the very words of that Ordinance And if we forget not it was by them in those times further declared That however the King had withdrawn his Person from the Parliament yet his Royall Authority could not be withdrawn But we know that what the Parliament in those dayes acted in the passing those and such like Ordinances was approved by the Sages of the Law that in those times adhered to the Parliament And this will now lead us to return our more particular answer to what you present for to take away the obliging force of Ordinances of Parliament And therefore 1. We say That that long Parliament as you call it who did so much honour the Lord Cook as to publish his Works by their special appointment did so well understand him that they were well assured there was not any thing in them that condemned their proceedings as illegal as on the contrary we do thereupon conceive that if he had been alive in those times he would have justified them And further we say under correction that all youalledg out of him was and is to be understood in cases ordinary not as it was in the times when the Ordinances for Church Government and other Ordinances for the setling the affairs of the Nation were passed when the King had withdrawn himself from the Parliament and levyed war against it 2. But to add some further confirmation

Surplice c. by any authority in our Government they bring in something Prelaticall to our charge but not when we only press to the utmost against ignorance and scandall which was the least thing that Government was ordinarily known by We take the Parochiall Diocesan as a meere scoffe the very Officer they strive against in our Congregations make it apparent how farre our Government is from a Parochiall Prelacy If they would be understood besides this flourish to meane our inforceing our way upon men of other perswasions we have manifested by what we have said before and by our frequent practice how unjust this charge is 13. The second thing is That we contradict our selves to inveigh against the Donatists and Schismaticks and yet espouse their quarrels And here by the by the great Diana of this Party is brought in viz. mixt Communion A fearfull errour we are guilty of in opposing this c. That this was the great errour of the Donatists the world must believe and yet we Preach against them and this greatly troubles these Gentlemen We have contended against the Donatists of our times that pretend to separate from true Churches as many have done and we understand not that St Augustine ever strove against Donatus or his followers in any other sense But that prophane and scandalous persons should not be debarred the Sacrament sure is a thing men so much for antiquity and the Church of England should never take as Donatisme The separation which we make is no other then what Chrysostome Cyprian and Augustine himselfe will appeare by their writings to have led us in and what our Church of England in the Rubrick of the Common Prayer did enjoyn and should have practised 14. We know not any secular power we ever exercised or desired to do over any which any Parliament or his late Highness hath blunted the edge of If they meane the civill Sanction for our Government we constantly deny that either the Parliament or his late Highness hath done any such thing as by our Papers may appeare 15. And for the hurt they speake of by our secular power or by the Goliah's Sword they jeere to have taken up they might do well to consider that of Rom. 13. 3. Ecclesiasticall as well as civill Rulers are not a terrour to good workes but to evill wilt thou then not be afraid of the power do that which is good and thou shalt have praise of the same For our requiring a Sibboleth for admission it is none other then a blamelesse life and competent knowledge and this we are able to shew it one of the chief of these Subscribers hath consented to under his hand in his own case we hope they will none of them own it that they have not this Shibboleth ready And for our requiring all Men to fall down and worship the Idoll we have set up we might as well call their endeavouring to set up Episcopacy to be the fond attempt of rearing of Dagon to his place again when he fallen and broken before the Arke of God It is a small matter to make us like the Egyptians when a little before as bad as Nebuchadnezzar For the Taskmasters dilemma we urge them with sure it wight have sufficed what was said in our Answer which they have Printed to have cleared out Text from that glosse they put upon it that the matter of excommunication was to be understood in case of scandall and obstinacy only If the first construction would not have born it which that it would and doth we must with men that stand upon nicities endeavour to prove yet they having our express meaning declared vve vvonder how yet to fasten an aspersion upon us they dare in this place take the thing for granted in their own sense We desire to put men in no other straits then God himselfe declares them to be in and yet hath left a sufficient way-out Men that are scandalous sinne if they come to the Sacrament and sinne if they come not in the one for a mission of known duty in the other for an undue and sinfull performance of it men may eate and drinke unworthily and abstaine from eating and drinking unworthily too but they are under a necessity of mending that they may both come and come worthily 16. For the third contradiction they are grieved with it is that men that impropriate the name of Saints c. should not carry more tenderly then we do truly to this we may Answer that they may charge that on us in malice which we cannot make it our business to vindicate our selves from with modesty we know neither when we impropriated the names of Saints or Christians to our selves nor yet wherein in the particular they mention we have walked contrary we presume the thing they charge us with they acquit themselves from we will go no further for appeale then the Papers in hand let the impartiall Reader view what he can find savouring of so much sweetnesse and candor in their first and last Papers and what there is of provocation in ours and by that let the matter be judged wherever the profession of Saintship is where the contrary practice is most apparent We thinke it not strange to be counted legall and bitter for speaking against sinne when the Apostle was counted an enemy for telling the truth It is sadly suspiscious the controversie lies on another principle then yet is in view We know not any thing we are guilty of like censoriousnesse unless it be free speaking upon all occasions against gross wickednesse we would hope those men would not patronize that cause which we profess our selves only against If this be it that makes us so censorious in private and severe in publique we must profess we dare not be Ministers to sooth up men in their sinnes unless they can finde us a Christ that will save them in their sinnes yet we hope that such of our people as have had occasion to be conversant with us even in this businesse of the Sacrament do finde some of that Gospell tendernesse which these men would perswade the world we are so utterly destitute of and will Answer more for us herein then we thinke fit to say for our selves 17. They now conclude their Preface which ushers these Papers into the world and declare how much they were forced against their dispositions to Print we hope they will not say we forced them for they know we knew nothing of it They protest it is sine ullo studio contentionis without any pleasure or delight in contention whenas they were upon tearmes of accommodation with us according to our Narrative and the truth and yet Print the Papers and they professedly hereby fire their Beacons to raise up others to the like opposition or a stronger where there is ability and occasion For the success of their cause we know not what God in his wise judgement may permit it to be the reception of what

Episcopacy you conclude us guilty of a rent indeed a schisme in the highest But herein you were contradicted by Mr. Allen himself in the presence of others of you that subscribed this Paper in a full Class to which he and severall of you resorted which makes us the more to wonder how he could subscribe this Paper who looking about him upon the Ministers that were present said they were free from that with which we are here charged there being none there that had sworn Canonicall obedience c. although here you say we or many of us did so as hereupon it will follow from your own principle laid down that we who according to Mr. Allens own confession never associated with the Episcopall Hierarchy or swore any obedience to them are quit from that guilt of schisme with which you here charge us But because we have already hinted that you do not argue well against those of the separation to acquit our selves and all the Ministers of this Land who now disown Episcopacy to which they formerly submitted or to which any of them might have sworne Canonicall obedience from the guilt of schisme in this respect we referre the Reader to the grounds we have laid down for that purpose in our Answer to your second Paper and which whosoever will but impartially consider he will finde that it is not we but your selves that do make the rent although to heighten the charge against us you here tell us that our schisme is so great that it is not satisfied but with the overthrow of the Church which yet in our Answer to your second Paper we have sufficiently refuted and rasing out those Articles of Religion we had formerly confirmed by our own subscription as if it were an Article of the faith of the Church of England which all the Ministers thereof had subscribed that the Prelaticall Government by Archbishops Bishops c. must stand for ever or if it were at any time taken away by the Parliament and disowned by the Ministers of England they had rased out those Articles of Religion that they had once confirmed by their own subscription But you must pardon us if we be not so credulous as to conclude the same with you who in your great heat for Episcopacy do so farre overshoot 4. Unto that wherein you were unsatisfied sc what we meant by the word publick our answer was full and home but either you minded it not or though you saw your doubt was resolved yet being desirous to quarrell you would not take any notice of it for we did not only tell you that by publick Assemblies we understood the Assemblies where the publick Ordinances were dispensed which we our selves did own and constantly frequent but also said expresly as is to be seen in our answer that we do not meddle with the censuring of those who being godly and sound in the faith in the main points of Religion do yet differ from us in judgement in matters of Discipline and Government and have their Assemblies for Gods publick worship distinct from ours as we are barred from it by the rules of our Government as we have often said before These were the very words of our answer and therefore but that we see you are resolved to be satisfied with nothing and find fault with that which is expressed never so plainly we should have wondred that you should here have said that we come not home to your question whenas it is manifest from the words of our answer that though these Assemblies owned not our Discipline or we their● yet we denyed them not to be the publick Assemblies or the Assemblies of the Saints as we expresly professed we never medled with the censuring of them or to take notice of their members being sound in the faith and godly in order unto censure as the forsakers of the publick Assemblies of the Saints But we here told you we were heartily sorry that you understanding our meaning as was manifest from what you after said should only move this doubt to give a lash at our private meetings which in our answer we justified but notwithstanding the lash you gave us you do neither acknowledge your fault nor reply one word to what we had said for our own defence 5. Whereas we said in our answer that seeing in the Paper which we had published in our Congregations we said notice should be taken of all those that should forsake the publick Assemblies of the Saints you might thence have gathered our purpose was to observe and censure those that did maintain and hold up p●i●ate meetings in opposition to the publick that did cry down Ministery and Ordinances and which we shewed were censurable by the rules of our Government and that therefore we were not altogether silen● concerning either the sin or punishment of those that did erre in Doctrinals or Discipline so as to make dangerous rents from the Church and for which silence you seemed to tax and blame us in your first Paper yet now you mention this our declared purpose to take notice of such forsakers of the Assemblies of the Saints thus characterized as a fault and so with you we are worthy of blame if we be silent touching either the sin or punishment of such and censure them not and we are also worthy of blame and punishment too as transgressors of the Laws of the Land as you will have us to be here if we shall proceed to censure such And so let us neglect our duty or performe it we are either way as you will have it blame worthy Yes and which were yet the more to be wondered at were it not manifest from what principle it proceeds you that crie out of schisme and separation and blame us for our silence touching either the sin or punishment of those that erre in Doctrinals or rend themselves from the Church yet here are become advocates to plead the cause of those that cry down our Church publick Assemblies Ministers and Ordinances For you will have these to do all this out of conscience these being your own expressions and not ours we declaring our selves plainly concerning those only that cry down our Churches and publick Assemblies Ministery and Ordinances as meant by those persons that we said held up private meetings in oppofition to publick and whom we purposed to observe and censure But these you will have also to be exempted from being censured by us as also all those who out of a principle of carelesness sloth worldliness or manifest prophaness do on the Lords day either idle out the time or else are worse employed when they should be at the publick Assemblies and whom in our answer we said we purposed to take notice of as such as did forsake the publick Assemblies of the Saints 6. But seeing you have undertaken to plead the cause of both these sorts and will have us to be sure mistaken when we said we did not transgress any Laws