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A92525 The ansvver of the Commissioners of the kingdome of Scotland, to both Houses of Parliament, upon the new propositions of peace, and the foure bills to be sent to his Majestie. Scotland. Parliament. 1647 (1647) Wing S1180; Thomason E421_2; ESTC R203503 26,529 32

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all that wish wel to Religion the King and Kingdom to ioyn in and to be a singular pledg of Gods gracious goodness to all the three Kingdoms we say shal that Covenant be layd aside Shal our mutual and solemn League and Covenant subscribed by the Parliaments of both Kingdoms by the Assembly of Divines by the City of London and which not only they but all Scotland and many thousands in England and Ireland with hands lifted up to the most high God did swear That they shal not suffer themselves directly or indirectly by whatsoever combination perswasion or terror to be divided and withdrawn from that blessed union and conjunction whether to make defection to the contrary part or to give themselves to a detestable indifferency or neutrality in this cause which so much concerneth the glory of God the good of the Kingdoms and honor of the King but shal all the days of their lives zealously and constantly continue therein against all opposition and promote the same according to their power against all lets and impediments whatsoever and that they shal do all this as in the sight of God Shal that Covenant even with those that took it be already out of date and not so much as remembred amongst the Proposit●ons of Peace Yea it is not so much as mentioned in these new Propositions except in the 7 Qualification of the 14 Proposition where it is only made a hook to catch some into the Notion of Delinquency But perhaps there it escaped the Revisers of the Propositions who in all other places have exploded it It is answered by some that by one of the Propositions it is craved that an act of Parliament be passed declaring the Kings approbation of the making of the Treaties between the Kingdoms of Scotland and England in which Treaties there is mention made of the Covenant And therefore it is not necessary to desire a particular Confirmation and Establishment of the Covenant To which it is briefly Replyed first that there is no Proposition for passing any Act of Parliament to confirm the Treaties between the Kingdoms as was desired in all former Propositions but these words are purposely changed and in place thereof there is only desired An Act Declaring the Kings approbation of the making of the Treaties which in effect is no more then an act of Indempnity for making the Treaties and not an Act for confirmation and establishing of the Treaties themselves and those things which are expressed and transacted in them 2. Suppose there were an Act of Parliament passed for approbation of the Treaties between the Kingdoms in general which is not in these Propositions Yet such a generality would not be understood to be extended to the confirmation of the Covenant unless the particular Articles of the Treaty and the Covenant were expresly inserted because there was an express Proposition amongst the former that an Act of Parliament be passed in both Kingdoms for confirming and taking the Covenant which being now left out of the new Propositions without mentioning the Covenant cannot but he interpreted as a receding from the Covenant and the approbation and confirmation of the Treaties in generall after deleting the Covenant out of the Propositions would only be understood of the remaining Articles of the Treaties Therefore if there be not an intention to relinquish the Covenant Let us not be ashamed to avow it and insert the confirming of it as one of the chiefe and expresse desires of our Propositions Let us give testimony and beare witnesse to the truth and not deny it remembring that whosoever shall give testimony to Christ and his truth by confessing him before Men Math. 10 3●.33 he will also confesse them before his Father which is in heaven And whosoever will deny him before Men them will he deny before his Father which is in heaven And seeing the Covenant was the soverain and only meanes of recovering these embroiled bleeding Kingdomes when the Houses were at their lowest ebbe and desired the Kingdome of Scotland Declarat delivered in Scotland Iuly 164● to consider with what difficulties miseries and distractions they were enforced daily to wrestle even for the life and being both of Church and State Surely the despising refusing and casting aside that remedy would be the height of ingratitude must render the disease much more desperate and turn our former mutuall confidence into mutuall diffidence And therfore we desire that the Houses upon better consideration will still adhere to the Covenant and insert it among the Propositions And whereas the Kings aversnesse from the Covenant may be objected and that the desiring to have it confirmed may be a hinderance to peace We answer If the omitting of the Covenant in these Propositions doth really proceed from that principle that the Houses are desirous to please the King and to remove all obstructions that may hinder a peace We doe very much wonder that they are so liberall in the matters of God and so tenacious in what concernes themselves in all differences betwixt his Majesty and them in things Civill which may farre better be dispenced with But to answer the strength of the Objection We say That the Covenant being for the preservation and Reformation of Religion and for the true honour and happinesse of the King and his Posterity and for the peace and safety of his Kingdomes Whatever be the difference of his Majesties judgement We have just cause to insist to crave his Royall assent to it And the Kings heart is in the hands of God to turn it as the rivers of waters whither he pleaseth And although the King should deny it yet we ought to performe our duty And when his Majesty shall be convinced that our intentions in entring into this Covenant were and are pious and loyall and that our Actions doe evidence that we intend no injury to his Royall Person to wrong his Government nor to diminish his just power We hope God will incline his heart to give just satisfaction concerning the Covenant And though his Majesty shall not come the full length of our desires yet we must never depart from the Covenant nor leave off by all just wayes to promote it or desist from endeavouring by all lawfull meanes to procure his Majesties assent unto it But we desire that we may be rightly understood in this and not misconstrued as if our zeale for the Covenant did abate or diminish at all from our Loyalty and duty to the King for the Covenant doth not lessen or limit our allegeance as some would falsely slander it and those who sincerely and loyally took it or that upon difference of his Majesties judgement and not comming the full length of our desires in every thing he should be kept in prison or that Armes should be kept up now when the Warre is ended to burthen the Subjects and force the King to grant what they please to demand We were confident when our Army returned to
Scotland and left no Forces in this Kingdome to oppose the Parliament that the Army here should have been instantly disbanded And could never have expected that the Kings Majesty to whom the Parliaments of both Kingdomes were to make their addresses for a safe and well-grounded peace should have been taken away by the Army against his will and still kept in their power to be carryed whether they please or forced to flye for safety If Scotland had apprehended that the least injury or violence would have been committed against his Majesties Royall Person or Monarchicall Government Nay if they had not received assurance from the Houses to the contrary certainly all the threatnings or allurements in the world could never have perswaded them to have parted with the King till all Armies had been disbanded and the peace of the Kingdomes setled It was our brotherly confidence in the Houses who are our fellow Subjects and the assurance we had from them that made us leave the King with them And their care of him and duty to him ought to be such as neither his Majesty nor we have cause to repent it And this we could not but declare to assert the truth and vindicate the honour and reputation of our Nation for out Loyalty hath ever been is and shall be dearer unto us then our lives and fortunes And the candor and integrity of all our Actions is a sufficient confutation of all the calumnyes and aspersions which malice or envie can forge against us We finde also these Propositions omitted viz. the Proposition for confirming the Ordinances concerning the calling and sitting of the Assembly of Divines the Proposition for Reformation of Religion in England and Ireland according to the Covenant And the Proposition for setling Unity and Uniformity in matters of Religion between the Churches of God in both Kingdomes according to the Covenant In place of all which we finde nothing but a meer shadow of Presbyteriall Government an externall Form of Discipline without life or power and a liberty granted for all sorts of Service and Worship of God and for the Exercise of all such Religious Duties and Ordinances as every person shall please and his own erroneous conscience shall dictate unto him for there is no other rule prescribed which opens a doore to Atheism to all Religions and to that which by abuse of the name is called liberty of conscience being indeed liberty of errour scandall schism heresy dishonouring God opposing the truth hindering Reformation and seducing others So in place of Uniformity in Religion which by Covenant both Kingdomes have sworn to endeavour there is here desired to be setled a vast difformity or multi-formity of Heresies and Sects which if the Lord in his mercy shall not prevent may produce the ruine of Religion in both Kingdomes which we have just reason to feare as for other reasons so when we consider the Declaration of the Houses of Parliament speaking of the design of the Popish and Prelaticall Faction to alter Religion in this Island of whom they say first Page 492. collection of Declar they resolved to impose a Popish Service-Book upon Scotland for well they know the same fate attended both Kingdoms and Religion could not be altered in the one without the other And in Answer to the Scots Declaration pag. 601. Whensoever the design to root out Religion shall be perfected in either Nation it will easily be accomplished in the other Religion being the band and foundation of the safety and happinesse of both And in August 1643. the English Commissioners declare to the Kingdome of Scotland that they are commanded by their instructions to put their brethren of Scotland in minde that the Popish and Prelaticall Faction that began with them about the yeare 1638 and 1639 and then intended to make way to the ruine of the Kingdome of England by theirs have not abated any part of their malice toward the Nation and Church of Scotland nor at all departed from their design of corrupting and altering Religion through the whole Island though they have inverted the manner of their proceeding conceiving now that they have an easier way to destroy them if they may first prevaile over the Parliament and Kingdome of England In which respect it is the desire of both Houses that the two Nations may be strictly Vnited c. And in another paper it is declared that what corruptions take root in the Church and Kingdome of England English Commissioners August 16●3 will quickly spread their venome and infection into the Neighbour Church of Scotland Wherefore we cannot dissent from this Proposition And according to the trust reposed in us represent our just exceptions against it And first of all we think it very strange That the Houses of Parliament should desire an Act of Parliament to bee made for establishing Presbyterian Government and in the very same Proposition desire that it may bee Enacted that none shall obey that Act of Parliament but such as shall please to doe it 2. We observe that however it is pretended that Presbyterian Government is desired to be established as the Government of the Church of England yet it is only in effect a Liberty granted to all such as of their own accord will joyn in Presbyteriall Government and so amounts to no more then a Toleration of it 3. That this toleration of Presbyterian Government is many wayes limited as in the time for which it is to endure being only to the end of the next Session of Parliament after the end of this present Session which perhaps may be not above six Moneths And the Ministers and Elders are appointed by Ordinance of Parliament to exclude from the Sacrament only such Persons as the Houses have thought fit and no others though it be against their consciences so to do They are bounded with severall restrictions in their Meetings and Assemblyes and are not allowed the use and exercise of all the Ordinances appointed by the Word of God so as Liberty of Conscience is denied to them and granted to others For 4. An unlimited toleration for the time of endurance matter of worship and exercise of all Ordinances is expresly granted to all the Sectaries of the time whether they be Anabaptists Antinomians Arminians Familists Erastians Brownists Separatists Libertines or Independents yea it extends to those Nullifidians the Seekers to the new Sect of Shakers and divers others By all which the very foundation of Church and State is shaken and neare to be overthrown 5. The toleration here desired to be established is of that capacity and latitude as it may admit of many vile and grosse errours which have been condemned and cast out of the Church in former times and may be revived in England as if errours and heresies were of so precious a nature that men should be encouraged by Law to enquire after them and invited to maintaine them 6. This toleration is not only to the persons of those
the Church Government by Bishops intended in the paper of the Dutch Ambassadours both in England and Ireland and to hinder the setting of it up again in the Kingdom of Scotland All which being duly considered we are extreamly sory that the Houses of Parliament should not only have given way but countenanced the Army in their medling with the setling of the peace of the Kingdom authorized Commissioners to treat with them upon Propositions of peace which we take to be the reason that these Propositions are in so many things agreeable to the Proposals of the Army especially in matters of Religion and without all question it had been more agreeable to the Treaty betwixt the Kingdoms and to former professions and proceedings that the Propositions of peace had been framed and agreed upon with advice and consent of both Kingdoms We have known the Houses of Parliament formerly look upon it as an offence of a high nature for any other then themselves to meddle in the matters of peace especially the Commanders and officers of the Army though in prime place and of great and eminent fidelity making it only proper for them to be exercised in matters of warre according as they should receive direction from the Houses And much more would the Houses have been offended if any officers of their Army should have taken upon them to offer proposals to the King for setling a peace without authority from the houses as we are informed some officers of Sir Thomas Fairfax his Army have done If the Houses of Parliament had according to our earnest desire the third of March 1644. when they modelled their Army made choice of such officers as were known to be zealous of the Reformation of Religion of that uniformity which both Kingdoms are obliged to promote and maintain and if they had also renewed their Declaration made the twentieth of September 1643. That they could not confide in such persons to have or execute place and authority in the Armies raised by them who did not approve and consent to the Covenant or if their Ordnance on the 15 of February 1644 which appointeth all officers to be imployed in Sir Thomas Fairfaxes Army to take the National league Covenant of both Kingdoms within 20 days after they were approved by the Houses had been really put in execution we are very confident it would have prevented a world of inconveniences and evils which have ensued upon the neglect thereof Wee shall not further insist on this subject neither shall we inlarge our selves upon the proceedings of the Army But we must alwayes put the Houses of Parliament in minde that our greatest strength is in a good agreement with the King and a firme Union between the Kingdomes There is left out in these Propositions the Proposition ●●●●erning the City of London whereby they were to have the Government of their owne Militia and the Tower and assurance that their Forces shall not be compelled to goe out of the City for Military Service without their owne consent An Act of Parliament confirming their Charters Customes Liberties c. And an Act that all the By-Laws and Ordinances of Common-Councell made or to be made should bee as effectuall to all in●●●●● and purposes as if they were enacted by Authority of Parliament with liberty also for them to repeale these Ordinaunces as they shall see cause These things were formerly desired in the Propositions in behalfe of the City because of their affection forwardnesse faithfullnesse and ●eal● in the common cause of both Kingdomes And we conceive our selves in duty obliged to desire that this Proposition may not be omitted but presented to His Majesty for His assent Concerning the Propositions for taking away the Court of Wards and Porrest Lands from His Majesty It cannot be ●●pected when the Houses of Parliament shal take into their consideration the glory and greatnesse wherein their Kings have 〈◊〉 that they will ever take away or diminish any part of that ●atrimony and Revenue which is necessary for supporting the Dignity of their Royall place without giving a full recompence for th● same Touching the Proposition for sal● and disposall of the Lands of Deanes and Chapters c. as the Houses shall think fit We have onely this to say that we have alwayes he●rd those lands were reserved by the Houses for maintenance of the Mi●●sterie and if they should be otherwise disposed of it will 〈◊〉 a great discouragement to faithfull Pastors make their subsist●●●●● to depend upon the benevolence and charity of their 〈◊〉 and give occasion to the people where Ministers 〈◊〉 wanting for lacke of maintenance to follow after Sectaries and T●●● Preachers We desire to see the Ordinances for Indemnity mentioned in the Propositions And now to conclude we shall here set downe most of our desires Which are That there may be a Personall Treaty with His Majesty at London That the Preface may be the same as in the former Propositions That the Honourable Houses according to the solemne Vowes Treaties Declarations and Engagements between the two Kingdomes would after so very long delay establish the Solemne League and Covenant and that His Majesty be desired to give His Royall Assent for confirming the same by Act of Parliament in both Kingdomes That the setling Reformation of and Vniformity in Religion according to the Covenant in England and Ireland be likewise desired in these new Propositions And in particular that the Confession of Faith Directory of Worship Forme of Church-Government and Catechising agreed upon by the Assembly of Divines and presented to the Houses be established That by Act of Parliament effectuall Course be taken for suppressing Blasphemy Heresie Schisme and all such scandalous Doctrines and Practises as are contrary to the light of Nature or to the knowne principles of Christianity whether concerning Faith Worship or Conversation or to the power of Godlinesse or which may be destructive to Order and Government or to the Peace of the Church or Kingdome That the Ordinances concerning the calling and sitting of the Assembly of Divines be desired to be confirmed by Act of Parliament as in the former Propositions That the Proposition for confirmation of the Treaties betwixt the Kingdomes And all Ordinances and proceedings betwixt them be expressed as in the former Propositions And that the Treaty for the returne of the Scots Army of the Date of the 23 of Decemb. 1646. be inserted amongst the rest That His Majesties Assent be desired to what the two Kingdomes shall agree upon in prosecution of the Articles of the large Treaty which are not yet finished And that all other things concerning joynt-Interest or the Kingdome of Scotland in particular which are omitted be inserted and expressed as in the former Propositions That Armies in both Kingdomes which were raised for preservation and Reformation of Religion And for defence of the Kings Person and safety of the Kingdomes be not kept up to hinder Reformation of Religion And
arise upon occasion of the late troubles And we conceive an Army should be kept up only in the case of a powerfull Insurrection within the Kingdom or of a forraign invasion from without and otherwise to maintain a perpetuall Army in the bowels of the Kingdom upon the expence of the subject when there is no enemy to fight with is but to enslave the King and Kingdome under a Military bondage When our Army returned to Scotland it was confidently expected that the Houses should have speedily disbanded their Army the warre being at an end and no visible enemy in the Kingdom and proceeded to the setling of a peace here and to the effectuall relief of Ireland But now after a full years delay almost we do not finde amongst all these propositions any thing concerning the disbanding of Armies or sending releif to that distressed Kingdom but on the contrary there is only provision made for keeping up armies and raising money for their maintenance Wee must therefore declare to the Houses that it is our judgment and earnest desire that there may be a Proposition for disbanding Armies in both Kingdome Armies were raised for defence of Religion the Kings person and authority the Priviledges of Parliament and the liberty of the subject And when they are no more usefull for these ends and the Houses may consult freely and act securely without any hostile opposition It is high time to disband them that the Laws of the Kingdom may take place Some of out neighbour nations are necessitated to keep up Armies because they have enemies that lie contiguous and adjoyning to their borders but the sea is our Bulwark And if wee study amity and peace amongst our selves and entertain the union between the Kingdoms under his Majesties government wee need not fear forrain invasion It is a Custome in other Nations to keep up Armies to levy monies by force But these are free Kingdoms and when they have been fighting for liberty and freedom wee trust that it is not intended that warre should be made a trade or that their warrs shall end in slavery The continuance of Armies will certainly increase factions and divisions to the great weakning of the Kingdoms will in end expose us as a prey to our enemies neither is it possible so long as they are kept up that there can be a setled peace The charge of entertaining Armies is needlesse when there is no enemy and extreamly grievous to the people who before were willing to bear it when they saw a necessity for it And now after so great sufferings and vast expence of Treasure to souldiers for many years together the burthen is become insupportable For these and many other reasons which wee could adde wee hold it most necessary That as there is a Proposition for payment of the arreares of the Army so also there be an addition unto it for their disbanding Touching the conferring titles of honor we desire the King who is the fountain of honor may not be deprived of that which in all ages and Kingdoms hath been held and esteemed a flowre of the Crown and wherewith Kings doe usually recompence the vertue and merites of such as doe memorable services to the Crown or Kingdome And as to the disposing of the great offices of State and nameing of privy Counsellors we conceive his Majesties offer in his late Message of the sixteenth of November to be so reasonable as may give satisfaction to the Houses That which we are to speak of next in order is the union and joynt interest of the Kingdoms where we wish we had not just cause to expostulate that the Houses have omitted the Covenant in these Propositions rejected all that concerns Vnity and Vniformity in Religion and have altered the former Proposition for confirmation of the Treaties and desired now only an Approbation of the making of them which amounts to no more then an Act of indemnity They have also in that Proposition omitted these words With all other ordinances and proceedings past betwixt the two Kingdoms and whereunto they are obliged by the foresaid Treaties which words were inserted in the former propositions after serious debate and therefore if the Houses intend to make good and perform all ordinances past betwixt the Kingdoms according to their manifold professions We desire that this Proposition may remain as before without any alteration or omission The proposition desiring his Majesties consent to what the two Kindoms shall agree upon in pursuance of the Articles of the large treaty which are not yet finished is omitted The joynt declaration of both Kingdoms is likewise omitted And generally throughout these Propositions all expressions of joynt interest are left out And whereas formerly the Propositions of both Kingdoms were drawn up together in one body now for separating the interest of the Kingdoms the Propositions for England are drawn up apart which new way when we did observe and what essentiall alterations omissions and additions were made in the matter of the Propositions we desired a conference for removing all differences and that we might the more speedily attaine to an agreement but it was not granted however we have herein discharged our duty that we use all means to prevent difference and that we for our part study to observe the Treaty betwixt the Kingdoms Where it is expresly provided in the eighth Article That no Cessation nor any pacification or agreement for peace whatsoever shall be made by either Kingdom or the Armies of either Kingdom without the mutuall advice and consent of both Kingdoms or their Committees in that behalf appointed and here we think it not amisse to remember the Houses of Parliament of their expressions in a declaration to the Lords States Generall of the united Provinces of the Low-Countries showing why they did not admit of the mediation of the Dutch Ambassadors between the King and Parliament in the way and manner it was desired without application to the Kingdome of Scotland The words of the declaration are that both the Kingdoms are mutually engaged in the Propositions and Treaty thereupon And that neither could admit of their Mediation without consent of the other because the two Kingdoms were united by solemn League and Covenant made to Almighty God and by league each to other as one entire body to prosecute this cause And that in pursuance thereof Propositions for a safe and well grounded peace were then preparing in a joynt way by the Parliaments of both Kingdoms And whereas the Lords Ambassadours had propounded and offered from the King the calling of a National Synode to correct and redresse the government of the Church by Bishops One of the Answers which was given thereunto in the said declaration was That not only the Kingdom of Scotland and the Members of both Houses of Parliament but also many thousands of others of his Majesties subjects of England and Ireland stand bound by their late Nationall Covenant to endeavour the extirpation of