Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	act_n	king_n	scotland_n	2,696	5	8.4241	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A44191	Lord Hollis, his remains being a second letter to a friend, concerning the judicature of the bishops in Parliament, in the vindication of what he wrote in his first : and in answer to ... The rights of the bishops to judge in capital cases in Parliament, cleared, &c. : it contains likewise part of his intended answer to a second tractate, entituled, The grand question touching the bishops right to vote in Parliament, stated and argued : to which are added Considerations, in answer to the learned author of The grand question, &c., by another hand : and reflections upon some passages in Mr. Hunt's Argument upon that subject, &c., by a third.; Second letter to a friend concerning the judicature of the bishops in Parliament	Holles, Denzil Holles, Baron, 1599-1680.; Holles, Denzil Holles, Baron, 1599-1680. Letter of a gentleman to his friend.; Atwood, William, d. 1705? Reflections upon Antidotum Britannicum.	1682 (1682)	Wing H2466; ESTC R17318	217,539	444

concerning Breakers of Truce and a Proviso in it That this Act shall not extend to any Act or Ordinance made 2 H. 5. late indeed and not of right King of England But still he is acknowledged King of England de facto which goes a great way to authorize any thing done under their power Therefore 11 H. 7. c. 1. A Law is provided to indemnifie all persons that shall do service to the King in being whether he have right or no. As for what is said of the Bishops making their Common Proxy at the prayer of the House of Commons That their Proceedings might be valid and not questioned in future Parliaments by reason of their absence and that divers Judgements had been reversed because they were not present It is true it is so expressed in the Roll of that void Parliament which as it hath no authority nor validity in it self so it is very strange that if there had been ground for this apprehension there should remain nothing upon Record in all the Rolls of Parliament that ever any Judgement or any other act done in any Parliament had been so repealed We know it was once attempted 2 H. 5. by Thomas Montacute Earl of Salisbury as I told you in my former Letter who brought his Writ of Error to reverse the Judgement given against his Father 2 H. 4. because the Bishops as he alledges there being Peers of Parliament were not parties to that Judgement but it was declared to be no Error and his Petition was rejected And we know that in Edward the First 's time there was a Parliament held at St. Edmonds-bury Clero excluso not a Prelate admitted to it And in Henry the Eighth's time all the Judges of England declared it for Law That the King might hold a Parliament with his Lords Temporal and Commons altogether without the Lords Spiritual Tout sans les Spirituels Seigneurs it is in Keilwayes Reports in Dr. Standish's Case Therefore there is no reason to think that any Judgements were repealed upon the Bishops being absent seeing their presence is not of necessity for the constituting and sitting of a Parliament And especially not for the Judgements which we treat of in Capital Cases because by what appears upon Record and by all the Laws Canon Common and Statute Law they never were present I always except that Unparliamentary Extravagant Proceeding and Judgement of Henry the Sixth in the twenty eighth of his Reign upon William de la Pool Our Asserter tells us of some Judgements reversed 15 E. 2. particularly in the Case of the Spencers but he doth not tell us where he finds it nor I believe doth he know himself having only taken it up some where upon trust as he doth other things But in this 21 R. 2. upon the Petition of the Earl of Gloucester it appears by the Record of the proceedings against the two Spencers Father and Son in that 15 E. 2. which are there repeated at large that there was nothing Capital in their Case neither in the Charge nor in the Judgement so as this signifies nothing to the matter in question which is all can be said to it And as little shall I say to his witty allusion of bringing me to a sight of my self as Alexander did his Horse to the Sun that he might not kick only this I might say if I were as foul-mouthed as he that indeed such a scoffing injurious Scribbler were fitter to be answered with a kick than with fair reasoning by way of Argument Next we come to the 1 H. 4. Sir William Rickhill's Case where I think I should do well only to transcribe what he hath written to shew it needs no answer but that I should waste too much Ink and Paper I represented in my Letter to you that Rickill being sent for into Parliament no formal charge being against him to give an account only by what order he had taken the Duke of Gloucester's Confession at Calais which he did the Bishops present but when they came to consider what was to be done upon it then only the Lords Temporal were asked their opinion which I alledge to shew that the Bishops there were not advised with because it might be preparatory to a further proceeding by way of Tryal And this our Asserter says is to serve an Hypothesis and learnedly gives it us in Greek and bids the Reader judge and so do I. Then for the Tryal of Hall who was one of the murtherers of the Duke of Gloucester he hath the condescension to acknowledge it probable that the Bishops were not there but then saith that they left it to the Temporal Lords without any Impeachment to their right it being secured before by the security of a confessed Act of Parliament 11 R. 2. it is their Protestation he harps at And if I had as much Greek as he I would say it in Greek that he now doth serve an Hypothesis or in good English beg the Question for that is his meaning of serving an Hypothesis for the Right which the Bishops there saved he will have to be and hath forty times repeated it to judge Capitally when they please but I have clearly shewed it was not of their assisting in those Judgements as he still will have it to be but other Judgements and proceedings in Parliament where in truth they had a right to assist Then follows the Case of William Sautre 2 H. 4. where he is pleased to give me a wipe for stiling him the Protomartyr of England and out of his great reading informs that St. Alban lived some hundreds of years before him but he must give me leave to inform him that the common acceptation of Martyrs amongst us Protestants now is of such Orthodox persons as have suffered for the truth whom the Papists have put to death for Hereticks and this man was the first of them in England He hath some other notable Remarks one is that whereas I said that the Bishops and Clergy of those times were the chief Promoters of bringing him to his end which I meant of their declaring him an Heretick and then turning him over to the Secular Power he observes upon it That then they acted in a Capital Case which he saith makes against me And that if it was the Lords Temporal who signed the Warrant for his execution that the Bishops had no hand in it and so have escaped my lash but who were his Judges nondum constat I am sure it doth not constare to me to what purpose he saith all this which I do not find to make either for him or against me No more than what he saith of the Case of the Earls of Kent Huntington and Salisbury 2 H. 4. who he grants were declared and adjudged Traytors by the Temporal Lords and no Bishops present and then saith he will give a Parallel Case it is of the Earl of Cambridge and the Lord Scroope 3 H. 5. where the Bishops were present and

they had a place to go to when 't was fit they should consult apart not that they always did so no more than it doth that the Prelates sate not among the Lords because they sometimes went apart and had a place to go to as well as the Commons We know that 7 Iacobi when Prince Henry was created Prince of Wales they all sate together in the Court of Requests and may do again when the King pleaseth I have now done with this rather curious than necessary Question which I had not touched upon had not Percy 's place in Parliament given me occasion a little to search into it Yet I think it not amiss here to insert the Prayer of the Commons and the form of the Proxy made by the Clergy to Sir Thomas Percy in 21 Rich. 2. memb 6. no. 9. as it is at large upon the Record that the Reader may be able to give a rational Judgment both what his Power was and how the Clergy were represented by him The Commons first pray the King that whereas divers Judgments and Ordinances before time made in the time of his Progenitors had been recalled and made null because the Estate of the Clergy were not present Et pour ceo prierent au Roy que pour surety de sa person salvation de son royaum les Prelates le Elergy ferroient un Procurateur avet povoir sufficient pour consentir en leur nome a toutes choses ordonances a justifier en cest present Parlament que sur ceo chacun seigneur spirituel diront pleinment son avis Sur quoy le dicts seigneurs spirituels commetterent leur plein povoir generalment a un lay personne nomerent en especial Thomas Percy Chevalier sur ceo baillerent au Roy une schedule contenant leur povoir la quelle nostre seigneur le roy receust commanda le dit Mardy estre entre de record en rolle de Parlement de quelle cedule la form sensuit Nos Thomas Cantuariensis Robertus Ebor. Archiepiscopi ac praelati Clerici utriusque provinciae Cantuar. Eborac jure ecclesiarum earundem habentes jus inter essendi in singulis Parlamentis Domini nostri Regis regni Angl. pro tempore celebrandis nec non tractandi expediendi in eisdem quantum ad singula in instanti Parlamento pro statu honore Domini nostri Regis nec non Regaliae suae ac quiete pace tranquillitate regni judicialiter justificand Venerabili viro Domino Thomae de Percy Mil. nostram plenarie committimus potestatem ita ut singula per ipsum facta in praemissis perpetuis temporibus habeantur It is observable in this Prayer the Commons recite Ordinances as well as Judgments to have been made null by reason of the Bishops Absence and comprehended not Judgments alone Now of what Latitude Ordinances were taken whether temporary or otherwise look'd upon as Laws is not very certain Secondly they desire such a Proctor as might have Power to confent to such things as should be done Thirdly they naming a Lay-man who had no Right of his own to sit there and giving the King a Schedule of their Procuration was enough to make their Right be preserved to them without any explicite Consent by their Proctor or perhaps his being so much as present at any Debate But I now proceed to observe how ready our Author is to pick what Advantage he can against the Author of the Discourse of Peerage from the words by him quoted out of the Manuscript History written by the Abbot of Molros in Scotland where the King of England sent Bishop Fox as I remember to treat with the King of Scotland Iames the Fourth then there touching a Match between the Children of those two Princes 'T is a Book to be seen in some few hands and writes of the Parliament in 21 R. 2. The Author of the Discourse pag. 20. tells you that that Manuscript Author blames the Prelates much for the Opinion they gave generally about the Revocation of Pardons but in this as in many other Authorities that make against him our Author curtails the Words and cites no more than makes for his turn The Words at large are these Dederunt ergo locum judicio sanguinis in hoc facto Ita quod dubitabatur à pluribus si non incurrerent in poenam irregularitatis pro negotio memorato unde contigit quod propter istud minus peccatum inciderent in aliud majus peccatum consequentur ut laicam personam constituerent procuratorem pro iisdem qui illorum vice consentirent ad judicium sanguinis dandum in isto Parliamento si necesse foret occasio emersisset The Prelates by this act of theirs gave Allowance or Countenance to Tryals of Blood insomuch that it was doubted by many whether they did not fall under the Penalty of Irregularity by reason of the foresaid business from whence it happened that instead of that lesser Offence they fell into a greater by Consequence in that they made a Lay-man their Proctor who in their Room might consent to a Judgment of Blood to be given in that Parliament if it were needful or occasion had happened I have translated dare locum fudicio sanguinis to give way or Allowance to a Judgment of Blood because it appears by the subsequent Words he meant them so The use the Author of the Discourse of Peerage makes of these Words is to shew that the Canons were not the only Cause that hindred their presence in II Rich. 2. For then when they had no Encouragement from the King or Lords then they ought not at any hand to be present in such Cases but here in 21. when they had any Allowance or Connivence as to the Laws against them then the Canons were neglected altogether His Inference seems to me rational and good Oh! but saith the Grand Questionist they were present in voting the Pardon to the Earl of Arundel revocable Under his Favour I think he is mistaken for the Book warrants no such matter only tells you that they gave a general Vote that Pardon 's granted in Parliament were revocable by the King by consequence whereof some of those who were pardoned in 11. were executed in 21. which Votes I hope might pass though the Parties concerned were not present and this meaning the book seems to enforce For first that Author saith it was a doubt amongst many whether that act did not make them incur the Penalty of Irregularity which would have been none had they personally by their Votes revoked the Pardon granted to the Earl of Arundel Secondly he saith by making a Proctor in that Case of Blood they committed a greater Fault than the former but certainly the making a Lay Proctor was not a greater Fault than actual Allowance and personal voting in Blood which that Author charges them with Lastly they made a

by the institutions of the Holy Canons to be personally present and that of Right they cannot nor ought to be there and therefore they do not intend in any sort quomodolibet to be present but wholly to absent themselves while those matters are handling Can any man now have the fore-head to maintain that they could have a thought of challenging still a right contrary to such prohibitions and to say that it was only the Canon Law that did prohibit them I say still that the Canon Law was to them above all Laws and the Prelates of those times conceived themselves to be above all other Laws even not to be subject to them but what the Canon Law did allow or forbid was accordingly by them held to be most lawful or unlawful The Salvo they add makes it clear Iure paritatis nostrae cuju●…ibet eorum interessendi in dicto Parliamento quoad omnia singula inibi exercenda nostris eorum cuju●…ibet Statui Ordini congruentia in omnibus salbis The right of our Parity and of every one of them that is our equal right in the general and of every one of us in particular with the rest of the Lords of being present and acting in the said Parliament as to all things and every thing befitting our State and Order always remaining unto us safe and entire Now I would ask if it can be imagined that they would by way of Protestation reserve to themselves a liberty when they pleased to do what they said was not lawful for them to do and that which of right and according to the Law to which they were subject and must obey they could not nor ought to meddle with And if such things can be thought to be Statui Ordini congruentia for their Salvo extends only to such things as are agreeable to their State and Order Indeed I think it a solecism to have such a thought And I know it will be excepted against that I do take Paritas here in such a sense and not to be Nomen Apellativum to signifie Peerage a rank of men but I consider how it is put that it is Paritas interessendi in Parliamento which in my opinion is proper to render a Parity or an equal right with others to be present in Parliament But let them construe it Peerage it matters not to me I have handled that point fully by it self in my former Letter and shall do it again in this before I make an end to shew I am not afraid of that expression and though in those times the Prelates gave themselves sometimes that Character that it did not at all belong unto them And he beats upon this again That this was left out purposely by me in my citing this Protestation which I have sufficiently cleared already amongst his Postulata's therefore I shall not trouble you with it again in this place In the Case of Thomas Haxey 20 R. 2. my Gentleman is so ingenious as to say He believes the Bishops were not present but then he tells you why because it was an erroneous Judgment and an Irregular Condemnation and so commends their Prudence And sure he hath been with some Witch to raise some of those Prelates from the Grave as the Witch of Endor did Samuel to tell him the true cause why they withdrew themselves and did then forbear to use their Right as he saith it is lawful for every man to do else he could never have hit so pat upon the true cause of their withdrawing whereas otherwise a man might say it was because they knew they had no right to be there and if it had been their right they should the rather have made use of it to prevent and hinder an unrighteous Judgement and have caused a righteous one to be given And more than that if it was their Right and that they had a calling to be there they were bound to attend the Service and I think it would have been a breach of Duty and a Sin in them to withdraw themselves from it And now I come to a Bundle of Words indeed it is what he says concerning their Proxies 21 R. 2. out of which one shall have much ado to pick some sense and what it is he would be at I will do my endeavour in it He first puts us in mind of his fifth Postulatum and of what he said there of the difference between the Matter of a Law and the Manner of its enacting and that a Law may be repealed for the Matter of it and yet the Manner of making it still hold good This I suppose he saith because I except against the authority which that Parliament at the desire of the Commons gave the Bishops to make their Common Procurator in regard that whole Parliament was afterwards repealed and consequently all it did made null and void Yes saith he the Parliament was repealed by 1 H. 4. because it condemned those who were his friends as Traytors to the King and Government yet the proceedings in that Parliament were just and lawful To which I answer That what was done that Parliament agreeing with the practice and usage of other Parliaments was certainly just for the Manner of the doing though the Matter might be repealed and made null But what was never done before in any Parliament nor any thing like it could not receive any stamp of Authority for its being done in this Parliament because the Parliament it self had no authority a subsequent Parliament repealing it and making it as if it had never been And this of all the Bishops joyning to make a Common Proctor was never done in any Parliament before nor since If any should object that Henry the Fourth was an Usurper and had no right nor Title to repeal former Parliaments nor to make any Laws This were an Objection if it should be allowed would have a long tail and carry a very bad consequence for it would sweep away at once all the good Laws that were made in three Kings raigns and would make such a Hiatus in our Statute Laws as would put things into a very great disorder We know that in Edward the Fourth's time which followed immediately after those three Henries in all the Acts of Parliament which passed when mention is made of any thing done in those Kings Reigns still what was done is allowed of and confirmed and to their Persons and Government the Parliament still gives this Character that they were Kings indeed but not of right Which implies the stamp of Soveraign power and authority to be set upon all their actions and so upon the Parliaments that were summoned and held by them and principally there because of the concurrence and conjunction of the whole Kingdome in all things there done Nay in some Acts of Parliament we find care taken that nothing should clash with what had been done in Parliament by some of those Kings as 14 E. 4. c. 4. there is a Statute