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england_n	act_n	king_n	power_n	3,247	5	5.0875	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A11213	The poore vicars plea Declaring, that a competencie of meanes is due to them out of the tithes of their seuerall parishes, notwithstanding the impropriations. Written by Thomas Ryves Dr. of the Ciuile Lawes.	Ryves, Thomas, Sir, 1583?-1652.	1620 (1620)	STC 21478; ESTC S116301	50,156	162

Seeing therefore that these are now grow●n into disusance reason good that their allowance bee made good againe and increased some other way In the same Parliament there was order taken for the hire of Slaters and other workemen by the day and it is ordained that their wages should bee increased from time to time according to the prices of corne and other victualls there is now no Carpenter or Slater heere which will take lesse then sixteene pence per diem for himselfe and twelue pence for his man which amounteth to vpwards of thirtie pounds per ann What reason therefore that the poore Minister who ought to be honorabilis in populo should be held to the old taxation of twenty Markes Irish by the yeere at the vttermost which commeth not to eight pence per diem for the maintenance of himselfe and all his family But the poore Vicars lot is not so good as to haue the allowance the Statute speaketh of Our horse-boies wages are not great would God our Vicars were no worse Our horse-boies haue commonly forty shillings wages besides meat drinke and lodging and foure paire of Broagues per ann How lamentable then is that which hath of late beene discouered That throughout the whole Prouince of Connaught and in sundry other Diocesses of this Kingdome the Vicarages for the most part are vnder forty and many of them not aboue fifteene shillings sterling towards all charges by the yeere But to conclude this point If any man thinke that twentie nobles or ten pounds sterling according to this Statute be at this day a sufficient and reasonable maintenance for a learned Minister of the Church and Preacher of Gods word to maintaine himselfe his wife children and family and to keepe hospitality withall and no reason will perswade him to the contrary I for my part will not bee contentious nor vse farther argument against him onely I wish him more experience and that sauing my charity hee himselfe his wife children and family might liue but one moneth according to that rate and afterwards hee bee asked what hee thought of the sufficiēcy of such allowance Neither yet is this the nihil vltra of our misery for euen vnto this day as if the ghosts of those Monkes did still walke and haunt vs Ecclesiasticall liuings of all sorts are continually taken from the Church vnder colour of concelements and as if in old time they had belonged to their houses In so much that in one small Dioces namely of Elfin twenty fiue Vicarages fiue Rectories and two Prebends are found to haue beene reft from the Church by this occasion all which did anciently stand charged in the Kings bookes with first fruits and twentieth part An infallible argument that since the dissolution they haue beene in the proper vse and lawfull possession of the Church neither doe other Diocesse want their part in this calamity And to adde to our griefe his sacred Name is heerein euer vsed who of all men mortall would most abhorre it For hee that of his Princely bounty and Christian deuotion hath of his owne giuen wellnigh three hundred thousand acres of principall good land to the reuerend Bishops dignitaries and Parish Churches of the North of that Kingdome would not he much more restore the tithes to the poore Vicars of other parts if it may appeare that of right they belong vnto them doth King Iames rule his subiects by one law and himselfe by another or haue wee not yet proofe enough of his well willing to the Church This then is an euill which cannot be healed but by that mysterious and medicinable hand of the King himselfe A hand which often hath wrought and daily doth worke greater miracles and cure more running sores then this in the body of the Church and Common wealth and will not leaue this vntoucht if euer it happen to be brought vnto him But to leaue what we haue not and to returne to what we haue I haue often said and endeauoured to prooue that the Bishop is the man authorised by law to assigne the Vicars portion wherein I am not ignorant that many men may happily draw my discretion into question and condemne my iudgement in labouring thus earnestly to reuiue the memory of an old discontinued and almost forgotten point of law for what if all were granted to be law that hath beene said what profit is the Church like to reape thereby seeing that the execution thereof belongeth onely to the Bishops weake men God wot some will say for the most part in this Kingdome to hold that they haue but altogether vnable to recouer what they had Medice cura teipsum Their Lordships should doe well to recouer their owne rights first and then wee should haue some hope that they would be able to preuaile for the Vicars also True indeede the execution of this law belongeth peculiarly to the Bishops but it is as true that in this their long default it doth now as properly belong to the King For there is no doubt but that before those Acts of Dissolution the Pope as supreame Ordinarie pretended made all those Constitutions and Canons which before are mentioned for the erection of Vicarages and maintenance of the Vicars many of which were directed to sundry of our owne Bishops in England and they by the toleration of the King put them in execution from time to time and were euer iustified in their doings by the Reuerend Iudges of the land If then the Souereigne power in these Cases and both the making and execution of these lawes did heretofore belong vnto the Pope then is it manifest that the same at this day doth immediatly belong vnto the King vpon whom by way of Restitution the Parliament hath seated all the power which the Pope then vsurped in lawes not repugnant to the word of God and Statutes of the Kingdome Wherefore if the Bishop cannot yet the King can doe them right I say not by the power of his prerogatiue but by a due course and forme of Law which no man may repine at and therefore if the right may appeare to bee on their side means of recouering that right cannot bee wanting to them But bee it that they could seeke no higher then the Consistorie of the Bishop yet is not their case so desperate as some cōceiue the same to be For I haue shewed before that not only the high Court of Parliament but also the reuerēd Iudges of former times which many times thwarted with Bishops in other matters yet euer assisted them in assigning encreasing and restoring the poore Vicars portion yea and pressed them oft times to this duetie when they were remisse and negligent of themselues why then should not wee hope the like from the Reuerend Iudges of these dayes whose pietie zeale and feruencie in Religion is by so much greater then was that of their predecessors by how much the Religion it selfe which these professe is better and more worthy of defence and maintenance

of Ireland neither should there haue beene so many Abbeis here erected with the ruine of the Churches nor should the Monks haue spent that in luxurie which should haue serued for the necessity of the Preacher But euery Church should haue beene prouided if not of a rich yet of a conuenient maintenance and consequently if not of an excellent yet of a reasonably learned Minister And to go forward with the course of the Ecclesiasticall Law in this point as it was in force at the time of the dissolution and to shew how carefull the Popes and Prelates of those daies were to mend a fault which themselues had made and to daube vp that gaping and irreparable breach which they had made vpon the Church in appropriating her liuing and reuenues to the Monkes by prouiding a perpetuall competencie for the Vicar It is further to be noted that if this allowance were once made and yet afterwards came to bee impaired and lesse then enough it was still made good againe vnto him out of the Appropriation As for example If the Vicars part consisted in a certaine kind as in haie and the owner should afterwards conuert the ground to tillage If it were to arise out of certaine mens lands and they should afterwards plead and prooue a priuiledge de non decimando If by warre or any other occasion it came to bee extinct For in all these cases the Vicar is to sue to the Ordinarie for a new allowance and he is to make it out of the remainder of the fruits in the Abbats hand so saith Felinus Bonis deperditis De offic Vicar Vicario assignatis Index ei de aliis prouidere debet And Rebuffus Si portio fuit destructa extincta bello vel alio casu De congr port adhuc fructus sufficientes remanent apud Rectorem vel Patronum eo casu adhuc iterum perenda est congrua portio instar illius qui legitimam consumpsit vt de filio prodigo est in Euang●lio Whence it is also that Panormitan Felinus and other Canonists deliuer this for a ruled case in law That if any shall implead the Vicar for any part of his portion the Proprietary or Rector may also come in for his interest by way of assistance vnto the Vicar Ratione Felinus ad C. G. Vi●arius extra de fide Instrument praeiudicij quod sibi ex contrario euentu litis possit irrogari cum perditis bonis Vicarii oporteret prouideri de aliis bonis Ecclesiae And I shewed before that our Bishops in England and Ireland were wont to reserue vnto themselues a power of encreasing or altering the Vicars portion at their owne discretion Neither was it materiall whether this competencie beeing prouided for the Vicar there were ought or nought remaining to the Proprietary or Monke for if the whole tithes would serue but for the Vicar the Monke was to goe without for from the beginning the tithes belonged to the Church whose immediate Pastor the Vicar is neither were they giuen but for the daylie office in the Church which office the Vicar doth and if nothing bee left vnto the Proprietary yet are his wages answerable to his paines And as one saith Vicarius agit de damno vitando Monasterium verò de lucro captando ideò praefertur Ecclesia vicarij monasterio And reason good for the Vicaris the labouring oxe which treadeth out the corne whose mouth must not be musled as saith the law of God And for the further cleering of this whole point it is to be obserued that whatsoeuer hath hitherto beene spoken concerning the Vicar it is to be vnderstood not of a Tēporarie but of a perpetuall Vicar which is a person founded in law without a new Act of Parliament and is in the Canon Law and by the Canonists called Parochialis Presbyter Parochialis Ecclesiae Sacerdos Rector Ecclesiae Perpetuus Ecclesiae Presbyter vel vicarius not to be appointed by the Abbat and licenced by the Bishop to say seruice but to be presented by the Patron what euer he be and to receiue Canonicall Institution at the hands of the Ordinarie of the place And as the Bishop is not onely authorised but also commanded and sub obtestatione diuini Iudicij by the Law required not to admit of a Presentee vnlesse the Presentor shall first assigne and lay foorth a legall portion of the profits for his maintenance and may ex officio proceed so often as the cause shall so require So also hath the Vicar his action to implead the Parson if either it was not assigned from the beginning or if it fall out afterwards to be insufficient and the Patron refuse to supplie and to make it good againe vnto him And therefore Hostienfis the question being put Quod ius habeat Vicarius in Ecclesia among Hostien in summa de ●ffic Vicar many others putteth this for one Item habet ius petendi congruam portionem de reditibus Ecclesiae cui seruit si minus idoneam habeat The Action which he is to bring is called Actio secundum Canonem and answereth to that which we call an Action vpon the Statute and is then brought when a man is priuately interessed in the breach of a Canon and yet hath no speciall Action giuen him thereby And this Action lieth Whether the Patron or other Receiuer of the Tithes be exempt or not exempt Religious or Secular Monke or Canon Clerke or Laike For in this case there is no exceptiō but whosoeuer receiueth the profits is liable to the Action And therefore I will say as a learned Canonist hath said before me Cum in hoc casu neminem Inueniam priuilegiatum illi dare priuilegium non est mihi liberum Et ideò omnes tenentur ad hanc Portionem qui decimas Beneficij fructus recipiunt And this Action is to be brought before the Bishop or Ordinarie of the place as one which standeth principally charged with this dutie Notwithstanding in France their high Sedentarie Courts of Parliament though temporall yet vse to lend a helping hand vnto the Vicar in this case and are often sued vnto The reason is because the Bishops stand asmuch in feare in those places of offending those mighty Societies as ours doe of Prohibition and Praemunire And therefore Iohannes Andraeas saith merily Iohan. Andraea● ad c●fin extra de Rebus Ecclesiae non a●●enand of them That Cum sint cornuti non audent cornibus vti Meaning that they dare not vse that power which the Law giueth them in this case yet the Ecclesiasticall Iudges vse to repine at this vsurpation of the Parliaments And the Popes as well to supplie the negligence of the Bishops as to giue the Parliament no occasion to trespasse vpon their Iurisdiction vse to giue in charge to those which are called Conseruatores Apostolici in speciall to take knowledge of the Vicars portion To these their Vicars if either their allowance be in