Duty 4. Sure it is not meer Place but a mutual Relation of Pastors and People that distinguisheth these Churches The Presbyterians preach't once in the same Places that you do and yet you take them not for the same Church Pastors If one from York or Cornwall come into your Pulpit without consent do People stand as much related to him as to you Some men are of extraordinary sufficiency to resist and conquer the clearest evidence of Truth But he addes every Act of Communion thô performed to some particular Church is and must be an Act of Communion with the whole Catholick Church A. And who denyeth this No sober Independent or Presbyterian that ever I met with It 's a weighty Truth § 17. P. 14. Saith he Praying and Hearing and Receiving the Lords Supper together doth not make us more in Communion with the Church of England than with any other true and Orthodox part of the Church thô in the remotest part of the World A. I think that 's not true With the remotest parts you have only Catholick Communion with the Church Universal In England and London you have that and more even special subordinate Communion with your own King Bishop and Flock 2. And hath not the Church of England such Communion in obedience to its own Laws as the Act of Uniformity Convocation and Canons which you have not with all abroad Do your Bishops in Convocation make Canon Laws for all the World Do you Swear Canonical obedience as much to the Bishop of Paris or Haffnia c. as to your Ordinary Do the Canons of all Churches impose our Liturgy or ipso facto excommunicate all that affirm any thing in it or our Ceremonies or Church Government to be against Gods word Sure this is a peculiar kind of Communion 3. If not why are all the Nonconformists cast out that offer to officiate and Communicate on such terms as are common to all sound Churches Pag. 15. Saith he There is nothing in all these Acts of Communion which does more peculiarly unite us to such a particular Church than to the whole Christian Church A. What neither in these Acts nor any other Then we are no more bound to hear you or maintain you as our Pastor than to hear and maintain the whole Christian Church § 18. P. 20. Saith he There is no other Rule of Catholick Communion for private Christians but to communicate in all Religious Offices and all Acts of Government and Discipline with Christians those with whom they live A. 1. Elsewhere you added sound and Orthodox Else they that live with Arians Socinians Papists in Spain France Italy c. are bound to communicate with them in all Religious Offices and obey them 2. This concludeth that where Presbytery or Independency is the way of the place where we live all must thus communicate and obey The King and Custom then may make any way to become our Duty 3. If you tell us that it 's only with the Sound and Orthodox you were as good say nothing unless you tell us who must judge that whether the People themselves or who for them 4. But if this be the only rule for private Christians what shall they do e. g. in Aethiopa Egypt Syria and many other Countreys where the Churches are such as General Councils and other Churches judge Hereticks or Schismaticks And what shall they do when at Antioch Alexandria Constantinople c. one party is uppermost by the Judgment of Councils and Prince one Year and another contrary party the next And what shall they do where the Prince equally tolerateth both and it 's hard to know which is the more numerous as in Zeno's and Anastasius Reign c. And what shall they do when many Churches in one City are of divers Tongues as well as Customs Have the Greeks French and Dutch in London no rule of Catholick Communion but communicating in all Offices with the English and obeying all your Bishops Courts § 19. P. 21. Saith he Distinct and particular Churches which are in Communion with each other must have their distinct bounds and limits as every member has it's natural and proper place and Situation in the Body A. Why may not the Greeks Dutch and French live in Communion with the Churches London though they live dispersedly among them In Brandenburg Hassia and many free Cities and Belgia where Lutherans and Calvinists as called live together and own each other as Brethren why may not both be Churches of Christ § 20. P. 21 22. A great deal more he hath of the like making Schismaticks at his Pleasure This is plain in the Case of the Presbyterian and Independent Churches and those other Conventicles They are Churches in a Church Nothing can justifie the Distinction of Christians into several Churches but only such a distance of place as makes it necessary c. p. 22. Distinct Churches in the same place can never be under the same Communion A. These things are repeated so oft and the word separate so deceitfully rolled over and over that I will answer all together under his third Case at the End § 21. P. 27. See how openly he recanteth most aforesaid There is a sence indeed wherein we may be said to be members of one particular Church considered as distinct from all other particular Churches But that principally consists in Government and Discipline Every Christian is a member of the Whole Christian Church and in Communion with it but he is under the immediate instruction and Government of his own Bishop and Presbyters and is bound to personal Communion with them and this constitutes a particular Church in which all Acts of Worship and all Acts of Discipline and Government are under the Direction and conduct of a particular Bishop A. Omitting that he seemeth to make the Parochial Churches no Churches but parts of one here he saith all that he seemed to write against and that those that he reproacheth hold allowing the difference of the extent of Churches And is it Edifying to read such a discourse that saith and unsaith by self-contradiction And he adjoyns 28. p. how by agreement Patriarchal and National Churches are made And is not Agreement a humane Contract CHAP. II. Of his first Case § 1. PAge 31. His first Case Whether Communion with some Church or other be a necessary Duty incumbent on Christians And he thinks the Resolution of this is as plain as whether it be necessary for every man to be a Christian For every Christian is baptized into the Communion of the Church A. In this I know no Christian adversary to him But it being the Vniversal Church that he giveth his proof of necessary Communion with it 's odde to say We must have Communion with some Church or other As if there were more than one Universal Church 2. But we grant more that all that can well should be also members of some single Church § 2. P. 32. He saith External and Actual
stairs to hatred and destroying it 's his way to cure Schism that is commonly painted with Horns and Cloven feet If a man come from a Countrey Village and be made by Covenant a Citizen of London how prove you that he renounceth King or Kingdom But he saith p. 9. Those who wilfully separate from the Corporation to which the Charter was granted forfeit their Interest in the Charter Ans. What Reader doth this man presume upon that will not ask him how he proveth 1. That Gods Law or Charter to his Church doth not require them to congregate in distinct single Churches as London Charter doth to erect several Companies and the Universities several Colledges 2. And that God hath not in his Word given order or command for such single Churches But that the Apostles and Titus by fixing Elders to their several Churches and Cities separated from the Universal Church 3. And that their subordinate Churches have not need of distinct subordinate consent and duty And that our Diocesan Churches all separate from the Universal Did he think these things need no proof at all It may be he will say that the Diocesan depend on the Vniversal but the Presbyterian or Independent do not I Answer Dependance is either that of Subjects on Soveraign or Magistrates for Government or that of a Community of Equals for Communion In the former respect they depend on none but Christ as Universal Soveraign Nor on any Foriegners for Governments In the latter they depend on all true Churches for Communion And Doctor Hammond and most Diocesans hitherto have said that Diocesan Churches are thus far Independent or National at most And if any be for a Forreign Iurisdiction in Charity before they perswade England to it they should procure them a Dispensation from all the Oaths that have sworn all this Kingdom against endeavouring any change of Government and against a Foreign Iurisdiction For some Fanaticks now Dream that PER is the Mark of the Beast and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is the number of his Name is nominal as well as numeral and refers to CH-urch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and STate For as for them that find a mans name in them I abhorr their Exposition more § 11. P. 9. God saith he hath not made any Covenant in particular with the Church of Geneva France or England c. A. 1. God hath made one General Law for Christians congregating with their fixed Elders or Bishops in particular Churches all the World over And his Command is not without Promise of being with them to the End of the World and that Promise becometh a Promise to every Church so congregate God hath not made distinct Laws or Promises to every Christian But the Promise to Justifie all Believers justifieth each single Person when he believeth If the King should make one common Law to command all his Subjects that are Freeholders to live in Corporations or Hundreds described with their priviledges those priviledges would be all theirs that are so incorporated As one Charter may Priviledge every London Company diversified by subordinate Agreements 2. And that God who will have them thus incorporated and distributed into several single Churches doth Covenant or Promise according to their demerits to each Do I need to recite the peculiar Promises and threats to the seven Asian Churches Rev. 2. and 3. which are Covenants to them § 12. Next Pag. 10. He will tell us what Communion is and in many words it is to tell us that Communion is nothing but Vnion I know that quoad notationem nominis Communion may signifie Vnion with others But they that write Politicks have hitherto distinguished Vnion and Communion taking Communion for Actual Communication or exercise of the duties of men in Union But to speak cross to other Writers on the same Subjects and give no reason for it and to confound Vnion and Communion is one part of this edifying Resolution § 13. Pag. 11. Our Communion with the Church consists in being members of the Church which we are made by Baptism saith he Then the Baptized are still in Communion with the Church till their baptism be nullified And hath he proved us Apostates § 14. Pag. 12. Should any man who is no member of the Church nor owns himself to be so intrude into the Church and Communicate in all Holy Offices it 's no Act of Communion c. A. I thought communicating ordinarily in Holy Offices had gone for an owning of Communion If it do not would you would tell us how to know who are of your Church § 15. P. 13. Saith he Church-Communion does not consist in particular Acts of Communion which can be performed among those who are present and Neighbours but in membership Now as a member is a member of the whole Body not meerly of any part of it c. All the Subjects of England who never saw nor converst with each other are members of the same Kingdom A. 1. That word meerly hath more Craft than Justice or Honesty Meerly signifieth Only I suppose and if he would make his Reader think that they that are for single Church peculiar membership and consent do take themselves to be meerly or only members of those single Churches and not of the Universal it is shameless injury 2. Will he ever draw men to conformity by making them believe that because they owe Common Communion to all Christians therefore we owe no special duty to the Bishops Priests Churches or Neighbours where we are setled Do the Men of one Colledge School Corporation owe no more duty to that than to all others Do the Free-holders of Bedford-shire choose Knights for Middlesex or the Citizens of Oxford choose Officers in London These seem strange Resolutions to us 3. But doth he remember that if Communion consist not in Acts of Communion to such but in membership even with the distant then he that is baptized and no Apostate and performeth no other Acts of Communion to the Bishops Parson or People where he liveth than he is bound to perform to them a hundred or thousand miles off is no Separatist Methinks this favours Separation too much § 16. Pag. 14. When he denyed any Divine Covenant to make us members of particular Churches distinguish't from the Vniversal as all National Diocesan and Parochial are as parts from the whole he presently confuteth all again saying The exercise of Church Communion as to most of the particular duties and Offices of it must be confined to a particular Church and Congregation for we cannot actually joyn in the Communion of Prayers and Sacraments c. but with some particular Church A. Oportuit fuisse memorem 1. Reader doth not this man here confess that there are particular Churches 2. If these be not distinct from the whole then each particular is the whole 3. If the Exercise must be in particular Churches must not men Consent to their Relations and Duties Is it a sin to Promise
Jurisdiction by right in this Land And all that by mistake say the King hath not chief Power in all his Dominions meaning in France of which he professeth to be King and we so call him even in our Prayers to God All that say contrary to Art 38. that it is not their Duty liberally to give Alms according to their ability All that contrary to Art 39 think men in conforming may swear upon trust of their Superiours words without judgment and true understanding of Justice and Truth Aâ—l these are already ipso facto Excommunicated by this one Canon and if they elsewhere worship God are called Separatists and Schismaticks in danger of Damnation as Adulterers and Murtherers are And how great a number are these 10. All are ipso facto Excommunicate by the sixth Canon who affirm that the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England by Law established are superstitious or such as now commanded men who are zealously and godly affected may not with a good Conscience APPROVE use and subscribe as occasion requireth That is all that thus mistake kneeling at the Sacrament on the reasons aforenamed to be against the second Commandment or that judge so of the Surplice or that think the Cross as described by the Canon and Liturgy hath all the Essentials of a humane unlawful Sacrament of the Covenant of Grace And all that are against the Rites of Godfathers that never owned the Child as theirs to be the only Sponsors in its Name and to Vow its Christian Education when I never knew one living that so much as made the Parents believe that he intended it And all that think the words of the Liturgy making Imposition of hands an assuring sign of Gods Gracious acceptance make Confirmation a humane unlawful Sacrament and say so All these are cut off 11. By Canon seventh all are ipso facto excommunicate that affirm that the Government of the Church of England under his Majesty by Arch-Bishops Bishops Deans Archdeacons and THE REST THAT BEAR OFFICE in the same is repugnant to Gods word that is all Bishops Ministers Noblemen Gentlemen or People that say that it is against Gods word for Lay Civilians or Chancellours to govern by the Church Keyes excommunicate or absolve And all that think it unlawful for Surrogates that are not Bishops but Presbyters either as a Cryer pro forma to pronounce all excommunicate or absolved who are so decreed by the Lay Chancellor or else for them or a Priest-Chancellour to govern a Diocess by the Keyes of Excommunication and Absolution being no Bishops and all that think it sinful for Archdeacons Commissaries Officials c. who are no Bishops to exercise the same Government by the Keyes over so many Pastors or Churches or for a Bishop to do his Office by others that are no Bishops any more than a Priest by those that are no Priests or for a Diocesan with his Lay Court to Govern many score or hundred Churches under him without any subordinate Bishop in those Churches that is to set up the Name and shew and make Christs Discipline impossible Or for Lay Chancellors or Surrogates to publish Excommunications in the Bishops Name which he never knew of nor tryed the cause Or for such Chancellours to oblige all Parish Ministers to publish all their Excommunications which are agreeable to these Canons What quality and number they are of that call any of this sinful I pretend not to know But they are all now excommunicate men 12. The eight Canon ipso facto excommunicateth all that affirm that the form and manner of making and consecrating Bishops Priests and Deacons hath any thing repugnant to Gods Word c That is all those that hold Bishops and Presbyters to be the same Order contrary to the words of that Book Which yet even the Church of England while Papists declared in King Aelfriks Canons see Spelman And all such as Thorndike who say the People and Clergy should choose their Bishops or that say the Peoples consent is necessary to the Pastoral Relation to them and that the old Canons for this are in force 13. The ninth Canon ipso facto excommunicateth the Separatists 14. The tenth Canon excommunicateth all that affirm that Ministers that refuse to subscribe to the Liturgy c. and their Adherents may truely take to themselves the Name of another Church not established by Law and dare publish that this their pretended Church hath long groaned under the burden of imposed grievances by the Church of England and the Orders and Constitutions therein by Law established Ipso facto is not here This reacheth to all that confine not Gods Church in England to the Party that subscribe and their Adherents If any say that if such as Blondel Rivet Amesius or any other the most Learned holy peaceable men that dare not subscribe as aforesaid should with any Christians worship God together and that these are a true Church though he judge them faulty and that these Canons are grievances such are to be excommunicated Though it be gross Schism in others to confine not onely the Purity but the Verity of a Church to their own Party For such to feel and groan loud here is Excommunication 15. The eleventh Canon much to the same purpose requireth the Excommunication of all that affirm that any Subjects in England may rightly challenge the Name of true and lawful Churches besides those allowed by Law though the King should License them 16. The twelfth Canon ipso facto excommunicateth all that make Rules and Orders in Causes Ecclesiastical without the Kings Authority and submit to them e. g. All that without the Kings authority agree to turn the Table Altar-wise to require People to kneel at the Rails or to bow toward the Alter or East or to set up Organs c. All these are now excommunicate by an Authority above the Bishops which no Bishop or Priest can dispense with but only forbear to publish and execute it but not nullifie it no nor absolve any that publickly repent not of it as a wicked Errour 16. By Canon fourteenth if any Minister shall diminish any part of the Orders Rites Ceremonies Prayers c. in regard of Preaching or ANY OTHER RESPECT or shall adde any thing in matter or form e. g. If he let the Parent express the dedication of his Child to God or lay any charge on any Parent he breaketh the Church Law and so far separateth from it 17. By Canon fifteenth when twenty or thirty thousand are commanded to come to a Church that cannot receive six thousand and the Alleys and Pewes are wedg'd so that they cannot all kneel yet all that kneel not at the Prayers and all that say not audibly the Confession Lords Prayer Creed and Responses disobey the Laws of the Church and so far separate from it 18. When twenty thousand Persons are commanded to come in more than can if ten thousand of them or any number should come to the
all that obey the twentieth Canon of the Nicene Council And from all that obey the Councils that forbid communicating with a Fornicating Priest And from all that obey the Councils which nullifie the Episcopacy of such as are obtruded by Magistrates or not consented to by the Clergy and People And many more such Abundance more instances of their Separation and Damnation I might adde In a word I think their Principles are as I first said for damning and separating from all men living for all men living are gulity of some sort and degree of Schism that is of Errours Principles or Practices in which they culpably Violate that Union and Concord that should be among Christians and Churches Every defect of Christian Love and every sinful Errour is some degree of such a violation All Christians differ in as great matters as things indifferent And no man living knoweth all things Indifferent to be such And these men distinguish not of Schism nor will take notice of the necessary distinctions given in the third Part of the Treatise of Church Concord And solutio continui causeth pain nor do they at all make us understand what sort of Separation it is that they fasten on but talk of Separation in general as aforesaid LXXXVII They seem to be themselves deceived by the Papists in exposition of Cyprians words de Vnit. Eccles. Vnus est Episcopatus c. But they themselves seem to separate from Cyprian as a Schismatick and consequently from all the Church that hath profest Communion with him and with all the Councils and Churches that joyned with him For Cyprian and his Council erred by going too far from the Schism and Heresie of others nullifying all their Baptisms Ordinations and Communions And for this errour they declared against the Judgment of the Bishop of Rome and other Churches and they were for it condemned as Schismaticks by the said Bishop And here is a far wider Separation than we can be charged with 2. And Cyprians words came from the Mind that was possest with these opinions and are expressive of his Inclination 3. Yet they are true and good understood as he himself oft expounds them the Bishop of Oxford citeth some instances many more are obvious in which he opposeth the Bishop of Rome saying that none of them pretendeth to be a Bishop of Bishops and limiting every man to his own Province and saying that they were to give account to none but God with much the like But in what sence is Episcopacie one 1. Undoubtedly not as numerically in the personal Subjectum Relationis One Bishop is not another if you should say Paternity is One none believe that one mans Relation of Paternity is anothers The Relation is an accident of its own Subject as well as Quantity Quality c. 2. Nor doth any man believe that many Bishops go to make up one Bishop in Naturals 3. Nor did ever Cyprian hold or say that all Bishops go to make up one Politick Governing Aristocracie as many go to make one Senate or Parliament that hath a power of Legislation and Judgment by Vote as one Persona politica He never owned such a humane Soveraignty But Episcopatus unus est 1. In specie all Bishops have one Office 2. Objectivè As the Catholick Church is one whose welfare all Bishops ought to seek 3. And so finaliter as to the remote End and are bound to endeavour Concord 4. And as effects all are from one efficient institutor As it may be said that all official Magistracy in England is one 1. As from one King or summa potestas 2. As described by one Law and as Justices of one Species 3. As all their Cities and Counties and Hundreds are but part of one Kingdom whose welfare all are for 4. And as they are all bound to keep as much common Concord as they can if any mean more they should tell us what If any mean that all Bishops make one numerical Universal Government they are heinous Schismaticks and the Kingdom is Sworn against their Judgment And these Men damn them in damning Schismaticks The truth is Cyprian de Vnitate Ecclesiae leaving out the Papists additions is a good Book and worthy to be read of all and take Cyprian's Description of the Episcopacy of the Church which we must unite with and the nature of that Union and we would rejoyce in such But if Cyprian had lived to see either Arians or Donatists the greater number or any Sect after call themselves the Church because that Princes set them up and had seen them depose Chrysostome and such other doubtless he would never have pleaded the Unity of Episcopacy for this but have judged as he did in the Case of Martial and Basilides nor did he ever plead for an universal humane Soveraignty LXXXVIII If we are damned Schismaticks I can imagine no pretended manner of Separation in which our Schism consists but first either Local as such 2. Or Mental as such 3. Or Local caused by Mental If Local as such be it All Christians are Schismaticks for being locally separated from others and absent from all Churches and places save one If Mental Separation be it either all Mental Division is such or but some only if all then all mortal men are Schismaticks as differing in a multitude of things from others If it be not all what is it is it all difference in the Essentials of Christianity we grant it and we are charg'd with no such thing Is it all difference in the Integrals or Accidents so do all differ that are not perfect Is it all want of Love or all Vncharitableness to one another all on earth have some degree of it and those are likest to have most that do as the Bishops did against the Priscillianists bring godly people under reproach on pretence of opposing Heresie or that seek the Silencing Imprisonment Banishment or Ruine of men as faithful as themselves For our parts we profess it our great Duty to love all men as men all Christians as Christians all godly men as godly all Magistrates as Magistrates c. Is it for our separating in mind from any Principles in specie necessary to Communion in the Church Universal or single Churches let it be opened what those Principles be We own all Christianity and all Ministry of Gods Institution and all his Church Ordinances We own Bishops over their Flocks let them be never so large so they be capable of the Work and End and alter not the true species and we submit to any that shall by the Word admonish Pastors of many Churches of their Duty or Sin or seek their good Nor do we refuse Obedience to any humane Officers set up by Princes to do nothing against Christs Laws nor nothing but what is in Princes power in the Accidents circa Sacra Is it because we disown any Numerical Rulers we own the King and his Magistrates we own all that we can understand to be true
should not only hold any errour or practise sin but require men to subscribe and approve it and say it is no sin no man ought to do this nor yet to live like an Atheist and forsake all Worship because men forbid him if it were but to subscribe one untruth But alas this is no rare Case In one Emperours Reign all were Anathematized that subscribed not to the Council of Chalcedon and quickly after all that did or that would not renounce it The same division and changes were made by the Councils against and for the Monothelites de tribus Capitulis Images c. And when all Men living have many Errours and the Church of England disclaimeth her Infallibility and yet will receive no Minister that will not subscribe that there is nothing in her Books contrary to the word of God the Case is hard But when all the things mentioned in the Plea for Peace are proved lawful we shall be more yielding in this Case XLV 9. If true and sound Christians mistakingly think one or many things to be heinous sins as Perjury Lying Renouncing Obedience to God and Repentance c. which are things indifferent but of so great difficulty that most Learned and Godly and Willing Men cannot discern the Lawfulness and agree and yet are not necessary nor just conditions of Ministry or Communion and so it is the Imposer that entangleth them by difficulty in their dissent it is not lawful for these men therefore to forbear all Church Worship but must use it as they can XLVI 10. If any Church unjustly excommunicate such men or others they must not forbear all Church order and worship because men so excommunicate them No man must Sin to escape Excommunication and every man in the World is a sinner And therefore all the World must be excommunicated if all Sinners must be so As I before said the times oft were when almost all the Bishops in the Empire were excommunicated by one another Councils and Popes have oft excommunicated some for trifles and some for Truth end Duty And such must not therefore renounce all Church Worship and Communion The Church of England do by their standing Law ipso facto excommunicate all as aforesaid that affirm any thing to be repugnant to Gods Word or sinful in their whole Church Government Articles Liturgy and Ceremonies and so to stand till they Publickly revoke this as a wicked Errour Now many Lords and Commoners in Parliaments have spoken against some of these particulars and some out of Parliament Many Ministers have done the like when the King Commissioned them to treat for Alterations And many when the Accusations or demands of others have called them to give a Reason of their Actions Some have maintained that it is repugnant to Gods word that Lay Civilians should have the decretive Power of the Keyes and that the Parish Minister must cast out of Communnion all that the Lay Doctors or Chancellors excommunicate and all that dare not receive kneeling and that they should deny Christendom to all that scruple the English sort of God-Fathers Covenants and the transient Symbolical Image of the Cross with abundance such things Now all these are ipso sacto excommunicate And thô they be not bound to avoid the Church till this be applicatorily declared yet actually excommunicate they are and that by a higher authority thâ—n the Bishops and they know the Churches decree and the Priests are sworn to Canonical Obedience And he that will not tempt them to be forsworn nor come into a Church that hath excommunicated him seems therein excuseable But must he therefore renounce the Church of God XLVII 11. If the People are so set against one Bishop for another as that half being for one and half for the other and both Orthodox they cannot be perswaded to unite in one A Council at Rome determined in the Case of Paulinus and Flavian at Antioch that both of them should hold their distinct Churches and so live in love and peace And though one or both parties in this were mistaken Sinners so are all morral men who yet must not live like Atheists XLVIII 12. An undetermined accident must be so determined as most serveth to do the greatest good and avoid the greatest Evil But whether divers Churches shall promiscuously live in the same City or Diocess or Parish is an Accident not determined by God and either way may be for the greatest good as circumstances vary e. g. When in a Church half cannot consent to condemn the words of Theodoret Theodore Mopsuest and Ibas and half will condemn them with the Council if these can serve God quietly in Love and Peace in different Congregations but cannot endure one another in the same it is most for the Churches Peace that they be permitted to joyn with those of their own Mind When one Pope declared that it 's sound Doctrine to say One of the Trinity was Crucified when another had declared that it is not sound Doctrine they that held with one Pope and they that held with the other might both be true Churches in different Assemblies When Iustinian raised the bloody controversie between the Corrupticolae and the Phantasiastae wise men thought both sides were true Churches Yea and so did many wise men think of the Orthodox and Nestorians and many Eutychians XLIX 13. It 's a common case under Turks and Heathens that they give liberty of Conscience for Christians of all parties Now suppose that in Aâ—â—ppo in Constantinople or elsewhere there be partly for Countrey sake and partly for Language but most for different Judgments one Church of Armenians one of Greeks one of English-men c. what Law of God makes only one of these to be a true Church and which is it L. 14. Suppose that the setled Church e. g. in Holland Sweden Saxony is for Presbytery or for an Episcopacy that arose from Presbyters ordination or that had none or a short Liturgy and the Prince would tolerate English men as Frankford did to set up a Church of the English Form and Liturgy I think few Prelatists would deny it to be lawful LI. I omit other instances and come to the matter of Separation which word serveth this man and such other in so general and undistinguished a sence as would make one think he were of Mr. Dodwell's mind That words in dispute have but one signification which all are bound to know that use them Even a Bell by the same sound sometime signifieth a call to Church and sometime a Funeral and sometime Joy but Separate Separate is rung over and over with these men as if it signified but one thing 1. He that heareth half the Sermon and Service and goeth out of Church doth Separate at that time from the rest When a Protestant Heretick was doing Penitence with his Faggot at St. Maries in Oxford and the Fryer was Preaching a mistaken Voice in the street made them think the Hereticks had set the
the Catholick Church is Ans. He maketh me think of the Man's Answer to the Pharisee John 9. I have told you and you heard not Would you hear it again If you would know what Unity is in uno which is affectio entis I must again send you to Schibler or Suarez or some such Tutor for I am not meet to tutor you If you would know in what this Unity consisteth I have told you before and oft § 16. But tho this Doctor use it not we use first to enquire whether the Controversie be de nomine or de re And 1. If I satisfie him what maketh the Church to be One will he grant that if we agree in that Union we are in Catholick Communion If he will we shall soon be Friends and no Schismaticks at least with any that knows what Unity is If he will not doth he not all this while abuse his Reader when he so hotly damneth us for want of Catholick Communion and tells us that he meaneth Unity and chargeth me with wilfulness or nonsense if I think that he meaneth any transient act But 1. De nomine I will once more tell him why I distinguish Unity and Communion and think he should have done so too Words in Dispute are to be used in the sense that Men of the Profession which the Subject most belongs to use them unless otherwise explained But Men that write of Logick Metaphysicks Physicks and Politicks use to distinguish Unity from Communion so far as that usually Communion presâ—pposeth Unity secundum quid and ever includeth some transient Acts when Unity is but the denomination of Eus qua Uâ—um I hope I may take the Language of our Creed to be so tollerable as that it is not necessary to salvation to condemn it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is by the Church of England which I hope is no damned Schismatical Sect translated the Communion of Saints That by Communion they mean some tâ—anâ—ient Acts and not meer Union all Expositors that ever I read among them shew as do all the Fathers and all Forreign Interpreters that I have read At least methinks he should not disdain to learn his Grammar again of Dr. Hammond and Dr. Heylin I remember not that ever I read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 translated Communion Indeed Eph. 4.3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expresseth Communion in transient acts but bare Unity doth not But Communion must maintain it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as in the bond of peace King Iames so liked Bishop Usher's Sermon on that Text that a Knight then near him told me that when by his winking posture the Courtiers thought he had been asleep at the end of the Sermon he spake aloud This is the Religion that I will live and die in or to that sense The regardful reading of consenting learned Commentators on Eph. 3.4 5 6 7. Verses might have quenched this fire-â—rand Indeed I believe with Beza that they who translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by meer participation say too little For it is not all participation which is the Communion which many Texts express but such a participation as connoteth an Union in quibusdam For Union absolute and simple is uncapable of Communion except with some other thing having no parts 1 Iohn 1.6 7. we are said to have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with God and with Christ or one another I find no Expositor that taketh this for meer Union Some call it Partnership some Society some Friendship others Communion but all take it to include transient acts Dr. Hammond goeth so far from this Doctor that he will have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 almost every where in the New Testament to signifie Communication by transient acts Yea he goeth so far from his Friend Grotius who placeth it in the exercise of Friendship that he saith It is appliable to Friendship or Society no otherwise than to knowledg or anything else So he expoundeth Rom. 15.26 2 Cor. 8.4 2 Cor. 9.13 Phil. 1.5 Heb. 13.16 Phil. 6. and the Creed Tho for my part I doubt not but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Cor. 1.9 and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Phil. 2.1 and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Cor. 10.16 c. do signifie such a participation of that which is common to them all as implieth and connoteth that Unity which is the thing signified in this Communion tho it includes transient acts II. I should now again answer his question de re What makes all these Churches one But he stops me with a profession that he will not be to me intelligible and complaineth that I am unintelligible to him So that we seem Barbarians or Men of strange Languages in disputing with one another And it would be no edifying work for any to hear e. g. a Dutch-man and a Spaniard dispute in their several Tongues not understanding one another When I distinguisht of unifying the Church and uniting a single Member to it he tells me That he supposeth the particular Churches formed and particular Christians united to them and only enquireth how they are one Church and saith my distinction is to prevent understanding which his confusion promoteth And when I distinguish between Union in essential parts and in integral parts and in accidents without which distinction no true satisfaction can be given to the Querist he saith He perceiveth that we shall never come to the business for he did not enquire wherein the Essence of a Church consists or what degrees of Communion are more or less necessary to its being but how a thousand Churches become one Church Ans. Which words are to me as unintelligible as any Nonsence Doth any thing make it One Church but that which maketh it A Church Doth not that which maketh it eus existens make it Unum Doth not the word Church name its Essence If he ask me how the parts of Man come to make One Man Who would think but he meant either One Man essential or else improperly One entire Man And what Answer would any give but this If your how mean what was the efficient cause it 's God and the Generators If you mean what are the constitutive causes They are Soul and Body united that make a Man in Essence and the integrating parts united that make him an entire Man O! but saith our Doctor I ask not wherein the Essence of the Church consists Ans. Then you ask not what maketh it One in constitution What then do you mean unless it be the efficient cause which no Man would think you meant that read the rest of your Book For my part I despair of knowing what you mean till you have better learned to speak But this seemeth to imply that we are agreed of the constitutive Causes of the One Catholick Church and our disagreement were of the Efficient If that be it I 'le tell you what maketh the Church One efficiently 1. God maketh Man to be Man and so capable
Laws and Man's interfere Christ's are to be obeyed against Man's 4. And we take not the Church of England to be cut off from Christ's Church if it should be proved that they observe not all the Laws and Institutions of Christ In this you preach Separation too blindly There are some Laws and Institutions of so low a Nature that Error and Offence against them cuts not Men off from the Church But what is his other Notion of a Christian Church Why It 's that which contains the Conventicles of Hereticks and Schismaticks which are a middle thing between the true Catholick Church and the World of Infidels as Rebels in a Kingdom Ans. This is the effect of Confusion When such men are got into a Labyrinth they go the further the worse The Truth of the case is this The Church is usually likened to a Corn Field that hath 1. Corn 2. the Straw and Chaff that feeds and covers it 3. Stricken Ears in whole or in part 4. Weeds All is but one Corn Field so denominated from the Corn But the Straw and unsound Ears are Integral Parts and Accidenâ—s But the Weeds are no part at all but noxious Adjuncts So 1. True Believers and Heart-Covenanters are the Christians in famosiore propriâ significatione analogati to whom the denomination of the Church is ordinarily given in the New-Testament 2. Verbal profession and covenanting is common to the sound and unsound as the Straw and Chaff to the Grain and Ears It constituteth the Church as visible matter as it is supposed to serve and contain the Grain 3. The Ears totally and visibly smitten are but equivocally parts that is the persons whose profession or notorious practice containeth a renunciation of their Baptismal Covenant or Christianity are but equivocally called Christians and Church-Members 4. Those that deny some Article of Faith consequentially nororiously and ignorantly thinking their Opinion consistent with all the Essentials which they practically profess are not thereby cut off from the Church but they having made their Title litigious may be suspended from some Communion till it be tryed 5. All good Christians are sinners and have errors and if any judg them Hereticks and Schismaticks for such they are still in the Church of Christ. The word Heretick and Schismatick are now become what the speaker please He is a true Heretick that separateth from something essential to Faith Love or Obedience to Christ and from the Church for that or thereby Persecutors separate from Christian Love and Communion So that here is but one Catholick Church and some called by men Hereticks and Schismaticks are true Members but all that notoriously renounce any Essentials are no Members of it Rebels is a word that may signifie such as cast off the Soveraign By which renouncing subjection they renounce being Members of the Kingdom and are as an Army of invading Enemies who are in the Land but not of the Kingdom But if any will call those Rebels that do but break a penal local Law or that are disobedient to a Constable a Justice or a Master this proveth them not to be no part of the Kingdom But he numbreth the excommunicate with those that are cut off from Christ. Ans. Yes upon these Suppositions following 1. That they be excommunicate not only for sin but for such sin by which they first cut off themselves from Christ the Excommunicator only declaring it by his Sentence else Excommunicators will be worse than Devils if they damn men or cut them off from Christ who do not first cut off and damn themselves 2. That it be not only proved an heinous sin in it self but that they are proved after due instruction and patient warning to be so impenitent in it by wilful ignorance or obstinacy against Knowledg as will not stand with sincere Faith and Obedience to Christ. 3. That it 's no cutting off a man's self from Christ to say that there is somewhat sinful in your Church Government Liturgy or Ceremonies or to be afraid to assent and consent to all imposed or to take an Oath never to endeavour any reforming-alteration of Church Government nor will it prove a renouncing Christ to separate from a Usurper or a false Teacher or run out of Dunstans Church as they did for fear it should fall on their heads If therefore any will cut men off from Christ for any such thing or for observing the 20 th Canon of the Council of Nice or for the fashion of his Cloke or for not paying the Court his Fees they either condemn themselves instead of others or do much worse than the Devil that can damn none such It 's Two to One but this Doctor that here damns the excommunicate without distinction will next say he meant well tho he said ill and that he supposed the Excommunication just The best is it 's no great matter what he meaneth while he is none of our Judg except as to himself and the seduced 1. And I add That we will suppose the Excommunicator to be no Usurper but a justly called Pastor and not a proud ignorant Obtruder nor a Stranger that cannot try the Cause nor is called to try it Much less a Lay-Civilian usurping the power of the Keys These men have so many things to say before they can accomplish their work as bespeâ—ks such Auditors whom darkness and interest hath made monstrously credulous As 1. We are yâ—ur lawful Pastâ—rs 2. The Patron 's had power to choose and the 〈…〉 us so whether you 〈…〉 3. No 〈◊〉 are your lawful 〈◊〉 buâ— we 4. We have power to câ—mmand things indifferent and if we câ—mmand a Suâ—â—lice or a pair of Oâ—gans or â—â—ruâ—ue you are cut off from Christ if you 〈◊〉 us or at least if we excommunicate you for it 5. If yâ—u think any of our Oaâ—hs or other Impâ—sitions to be sins that would damn you yet if you refuse them and we excommunicate yâ—u fâ—r it you are cut off from Christ and in a state of damnation 6. If one Chancellor or Priest cut you off all the Church on Earth must judg you accordingly Reader when so small a part of Christians in a thousand years have escaped Excommunication from one or other what have these men done in the World Is it any wonder if Kings and Kingdoms were subjected by Excommunication and to say St. Peter will be angry else frightned the Nations into obedience Did not Christ and Paul speak gently when they called such grievous Wolves in Sheeps cloathing devouring the Flocks § 32. Yet p. 69 70. his cause leads him to say that this Church which is wider than the Catholick taking in Rebels yea those Rebels themselves and Hereticks and Schismaticks May have the power of Orders or else I know what would follow and Officers rightly constituted Christian Sacraments and all the Essentials of a true Church except Christian Peace and Unity and Catholick Communinion Ans. Reader pretend not to understand him but answer him
Pastors have to the Universal Church will enable any of them more or fewer confederate or not ex authoritate Ministri Nuncii to tell any other Bishops or Churches of heinous scandalous sin and admonish them and renounce Communion with the impenitent and exhort people to forsake Heretick Bishops c. But all this as Equals and not as the fixed Overseers of other Churches nor as Rulers of other Pastors And so one Martin may do by a Synod of Bishops IX Kings are as truly and I think as much obliged to do their work in Concord and Communion The contrary dreadful Doctrine of Dr. Parker for setting up an Vniversal Council of Princes to govern all the Kings on earth is to be confuted elsewhere as also his subjecting Christ to Kings which implieth that they may command reward and punish him as Bishops And Kingship is as truly One as Episcopacy That is 1. It is of the same species 2. Under the same Universal King 3. Governed by the same Universal Laws 4. Bound to regard the Good of all the Church and World above that of their own Kingdoms 5. And bound to contribute the utmost of their Wit Interest and Power for the said common good of Church and World And because all the Kings in Europe may do more to this common good of all than Bishops without them can do I may say That they are bound hereto rather more than less than the Bishops As a rich man is bound to liberality more than a poor man and one that hath the Tutorage of Princes and Nobles Sons or a Physician that hath an Hundred such Patients is bound to more care and more bound to care than another And all Kingdoms are as truly parts of God's Kingdom over men as all Churches are parts of the Universal Church If Justices or Mayors will of themselves make a New Body Politick by Confederacy and Association and say We claim no Superiority but an Authority in order to Communion to make Laws of Government for the Kingdom or many Counties and should say It is One Kingdom as Unified by this Communion and these Laws of ours and not by their Relation to one King I should doubt whether to call them Sots or Rebels or Traitors § 5â— P. 206 207. he boldly repeateth How oft have I told him what it is that makes the Catholick Church One Catholick Church which is the constitutive Form he enquires after viz. Not one superior power over the whole Church but one Communion and this Communion is in Humane Forms and Canons Ans. How oft doth he tell us that which if a Dissenter had asserted I should have thought the Name of an Heretick too gentle for him as coming so near the denying both of the Church and Christ. See here the Church is not made One and so not made the Church by its unitive Relation to Christ the Head He is not the constitutive Regent Form but a Voluntary Agreement to make Laws of Government c. is the constitutive Form And yet he saith before It is not made by Man but God § 51. But p. 220. he disgraceth the Dean by these words Mr. B. indeed says That the Universal Church is headed by Christ himself But as the Dean adds this doth not remove the difficulty For the question is about the Visible Church whereof the particular Churches are parts and they being visible parts do require a visible constitutive Regent Head as essential to them Therefore the whole Visible Church must likewise have a visible constitutive Regent Head Ans. Dangerously false and the Fundamental Principle of Popery When they know how frequently the Papists are answered to this by Protestants and I told them how fully I had answered it to Iohnson and oft why have we no Reply but say over and over the same things Viz. 1. No Kingdom nor thing is Visible simpliciter but secundum quid Our King is not visible in Ireland nor but to â—ew in England His soul is visible to none nor his body save the outward Accidents If he were seen by none but Courtiers it were a Visible Kingdom 2. In all these Respects the Church is Visible 1. The Bodies of the Subjests are Visible 2. Their Oath af Allegiance Baptism and Profession are Visible 3. Christ lived Visibly on Earth 4. He is Visible in Heaven to his Courtiers 5. He hath one Visible Law and Covenant to govern all his Church 6. He hath Visible Officers 7. He hath Visible administrations of Mercy and Justice by himself and his Officers 8. And he is coming to Judgment Visibly and all Eyes shall see him Now the Controversie is either de re or de nomine De re none but a false Teacher will deny any one of these that I say not a gross Heretick 2. De nomine either this much may warrant the Name of a Visible Church or not If not we must go the old way of some former Protestants and say That the Chatholick Church is not Visible And for ought I see we must say That the Kingdom of Ireland if not of England is Invisible because few see the King and no man ever saw the Soul of King or Subjects or their Bodies save the skin If all this warrant not the Name of Visible Church the Confederacy of an unknown Company of Bishops will not But remember that the Controversie is but de nomine and we say more by far to prove it Visible than you do while you deny Popery § 52. P. 2â—5 I Argued That if a Regent Supreme be the informing part of a Diocesan Metropolical c. Church so must it he of the Catholick if the word Church be used univocally Hence he inferreth that I thus argue If there be not a Supreme Head over the whole Church there is no such over any part So little doth he understand an Argument When as I argued only from the parity of Reason That if the summa potestas be not the Form of the Catholick Church then it is not of Diocesan Churches But it is of Diocesan Churches as is confest Ergo This supposeth that they confess Christ to be the summa potestas Therefore I say He must be the Constitutive Form The man blusht not here to say That I infer A Bishop cannot govern his own Church unless one Bishop or a Colledge govern the whole How little Belief is due to such a Man § 53. P. 844. He saith I think it as certain That those Churches cannot be Members of the Catholick Church whose Communion is unlawful Answ. Seeing it is plain That he meaneth not only mental Communion in Essentials of which it's true but local Communion in outward Acts I take him to be one of the grossest Schismaticks that ever I had to do with and one of the greatest Enemies to Christian Catholick Love If any could prove it unlawful to have Ministerial Communion in England where he cannot have it without declaring Assent and Consent to all
would meet about it when they were desired to come to Sion Colledge and after they Printed a Thanksgiving to the King for his Declaration so that then they were not against all imposed Liturgies so that the Imposition had no unmercifulness in it 20. The forreign Churches in Holland France Germany c. are so much used to pray in the same form of words that if they were put to do all ex tempore it would be lamentably done by most even far worse than it is 21. I have formerly told the world That many of the most noted Nonconformists in London met and concluded for communicating in the Parish-Churches about 1664. And two things done by the Conformists stopt them One was a storm then arising against those that could not do it which they feared to seem to countenance by their compliance And Plague and Fâ—re interrupting the purposes of some The Oxford Act of Confinement made it unpracticable because to be seen in a Church would have cast them six Months in the Goal with Malefactors 22. Being thus hindered and delayed the King's Declaration after giving them liberty to have Assemblies otherwise they were then kept from the Parish-Churches by their labours with their own â—locks as the Parish-Ministers be from hearing one another 23. Some in the City and more in the Countries all this while went constantly to the Parish Churches before this liberty and as oft as they could after lest they should by their practice draw the people to thâ—nk that they took it for unlawful 24 Others that thought it lawful judg it not necessary when they might do that which they judged better And finding many Hearers offended at it were loath to displease them and bear their censures till at last by long disuse the people thought their judgment was against it And when necessity driveth them to declare their judgments and change their practice their Hearers and their Adversaries call them unconscionable Temporizers 25. Tho Mr. Tombs wrote for Parish-Communion few Anabaptists followed him and tho Mr. Nye wrote for hearing the Parish-Ministers few Indâ—pendents consented But some of their Ministers took the advantage of the foresaid forbearance of others and so brought Separation to pass for a common duty with many And renewed sufferings made it easier to draw men from the Communion of those that they so much suffered by following the eâ—ample of St. Martin and saying That persecutors obtruded without their conâ—ent were none of their Pastors and that it 's no Schism not to communicate with the Church which causelesly hath ipso facto excommunicated them in Can. 6 7 8 c. This is the true premised History D. O. Some things must be promised to the confirmation of this Position 1. The whole 〈◊〉 of Liturgical Worship with all its inseparable dependences are intendâ—â— For as such it is established by Law and not in any part of it only as 〈…〉 is required that we receive it and attend unto it It is not in our powâ—â— it is not left to our judgment or liberty to close with or make use of any pâ—rt of it as we shall think fit There are in the Mass-book many Prayers directed to God only by Iesus Christ yet it is not lawful for us thereon to go to Mass under a pretence only of joyning in such lawful Prayers As we must not affect their Drink-Offerings of Blood so we must not tâ—ke up their names in our lips Psal. 16.4 Have no communion with them § 2. I Shall now examine the Doctor 's Premises To the first I answer 1. If he will include all that is in the Liturgy the Nonconformists confess that there is somewhat in it which they dissent from as unjuâ—tifiable And so there is in all mens Worship of God 2. He intimateth That it is not in our power to close with some I. Error and not withall This is his First Error Tho Man give us no such power God doth As it is in my power 〈◊〉 believe all that one speaketh truly and well and not that which he speaketh amiss I am not bound to own all that any Preacher or Priest shall say in the Church God put it in the Disciples power to beware of the Leven of the Pharisees and yet to hear them Proving all things is not approving all things 2. Tho the Mass have many good Prayers the corruption by twisted Idolatry and Heresie maketh Communion there unlawful Heathent and Turks have good Prayers Prove any such Heresie or Idolatry in the Church-Worship by the Liturgy and we will avoid it But if I may joyn with your own good Prayers and Preaching notwithstanding your many Failings and such Errors as are here pleaded for why not with others 3. Psal. 16.4 is too sadly abused which speaketh only of sacrificing to and worshipping false Gods D. O. 2. It is to be considered as armed with Laws 1. Such as declare and enjoyn it as the only true Worship of the Church 2. Such as prohibit condemn and punish all other ways of the Worship of God in Church-Assemblies By our communion and conjunction in it we justifie those Laws § 3. THat our Communion justifieth all the Laws that impose the Liturgy yea the penal severeties is too gross an Error to be written with any shew of proof What if the Creed or Lord's Prayer were too rigorously imposed II. Error or Presbytery or Indepency must we forbear them or justifie the Law I can prove Episcopacy excluded too severely by the Covenant But every one that is against it justifieth not the imposition of that Covenant in that rigor What if rigorous Laws should make it imprisonment or death not to use our Translation of the Scriptures our approved Catechisms our Metre and Tunes of the Psalms not to put off the Hat at Prayer not to meet at the appointed Place and Hour c. Doth every man justifie the rigor of the imposition who obeyeth the Law Then a rigorous Law-maker may take away our Christian Liberty by commanding us to use such things too strictly yea he may turn Duty by too strict commanding it into Sin These are your unproved Premises D. O. 3. This conjunction in Communion by the Worship of the Liturgy is the Symbol Pledg and Token of an Ecclesiastical Incorporation with the Church of England in its present Constitution It is so in the Law of the Land It is so in the Canons of the Church It is so in the common Understanding of all men And by these Rules must our Profession and Practice be judged and not by any reserves of our own which neither God nor good men will allow of Wherefore § 4. TO the Third Premise I answer 1. The Church of England is an ambiguous word 1. As it signifieth a part of the Universal Church agreeing in Faith one God one Christ and all essential to the Church so we desire the honour of being parts of it 2. And also as it is a Christian
the old Form of Government To be true to the Commonwealth as then Established without a King and House of Lords They ordered the Sequestring of all Ministers that would not Fast and Pray before and give Thanks after for their Victories in Scotland They then pull'd down this Remnant of the Commons and called themselves without the Peoples Choice Two out of each County and called them a Parliament These put it to the Vote Whether all the Parish-Ministers in England should not be put down at once and as credible Report went it was carried against them but by three Voices These gave up their Commissions to Cromwell He now becomes the Defender of the Ministers The Government is again Changed and he made Protector and Fundamental Laws made among themselves by we know not whom Parliament Lords made by him Parliaments called and broken at his pleasure The Government of the Counties put into the Hands of Major Generals After the Death of Oliver his Son set up and his Parliament first pull'd down in which the Reverend Author nâ—w opposed told me he was an Agent and next himself Then the Commons called the Rump were made Sovereign again Then they were pull'd down again and a Council of State out of the Army that did it is set highest Till at last by God's most remarkable hand this conquering Army dissolved utterly without one drop of blood and the King restored without opposition It 's true that serious godliness all this while much increased in most parts of the Land But how It was mainly by the excellent preaching and living of that Ministry whom these Separatists vilified such as the Assembly-men had been and by a middle sort of Peace-makers who engaged in no Sect but would fain have healed all For the effects of the separating party were these 1. The Land was cast into division and confusion by them 2. Ranters and Quakers sprung from them 3. Their overthrow of Government brought a Reproach on Religion 4. Seperated Churches of Anabaptists kept up a Religious War in many places 5. All the Parish-Ministers in Wales were put down and most of the Churches shut up Itinerant Preachers being set up in their stead lest the Parishes should be thought to be Churches Perhaps you 'l say That these Itinerants were better than the old ignorant Ministers But 1. Their Number was so small that there was commonly but one to Six or Eight Parishes so that the People publickly worshipt God but once in Six or Eight weeks And had not a Liturgy been better than nothing or than to live like Atheists 2. The most famous of the Itinerants were Mr. W. Cradocke and Vavasor Powel I knew them both The former was a most zealous man for practical godliness with whom I conversed in my Youth when in Mr. Rich. Simond's School in Shrewsbury he was concealed from the Bishops pursuit by the Name of Mr. Williams But how gross an Antinomian he turned after he had learned Separation before he was Itenerant there his Printed Sermons tell us where he so earnestly perswadeth men not to question their Justification after Conversion for any sin whatsoever they shall commit and more such like And his Printed Writings shew that Mr. Erbury of whom he learned Separation fell so far as that it 's hard to discern that he was at all a Christian. And Vavasor Powel was an Antinomian Now I crave a sober Answer to this 1. Whether a Liturgy had not been better than no Worship for six days in seven 2. Whether these Itinerants that so dangerously erred in Doctrine were not more sadly destitute of the help of the Spirit than they that only wanted ability to utter sound words without a Form or Books And had not good forms been safer for that People than the Doctrine of Mr. Erbury Mr. Cradâ—k Vavasor Powel Morgan Lloyd of Wrexham known also in Print It grieved me to talk with one of these Itinerants in 1663 who came to me for Counsel He had been an Anabaptist set up for an Itinerant over many Parishes I examined him and found that he had not any more learning than to read English and was grosly Ignorant in Divinity He was ordained for all that by a Bishop and conformed I wondered how he past their Examination He told me that they askt him no questions about his Learning or Knowledg but only whether he would Conform and so ordained him I have now opened some of the fruits of Separation in England as you have done the supposed fruits of the Liturgies but indeed of the exclusion of free Prayers And judg now whether all the ill effects have come from one extream The truth is having impartially observed the mischiefs of the Age in which I have lived I have found that both the extreams have been the chief causes and the Peacemakers both the most understanding and the most innocent And the nearer any of the several parties have come to them the more innocent they have been It is not meer Episcopacy or Liturgies that have done the mischief for such excellent men as Cranmer Ridley Hooper Farrar Parker Iewel Grindal Davenant Usher c. could use both profitably It 's not meer Presbytery for such as Calvin Beza Danaeus Sadeel Rivet Chamier Dallee Blondel have been excellent Lights in the Church It is not meer Independency for Ramus Amesius H. Iacob Ier. Burroughs and many others of that mind have been excellent peaceable men It is not mere Anabaptistry for there have been many peaceable worthy men against Infant Baptism and some Bishops thought it not of Divine Institution and when they were re-baptized continued in Love and Communion with others But it is Proud Ignorance and want of Christian Love causing Excommunicating Persecuting Separation or Schism in some and withdrawing censorious Separation in others who neither party understand the truth nor ever loved their Neighbours as themselves nor learnt to do as they would be done by The worldly P R. IGs and the unruly P R. IGs by Persecution and by causless Separation and Alienation have done the hurt But I will tell the Bishops that they should not be too angry with the Learned Author of these twelve Arguments For I know not three men alive whom they are more beholden to for their restitution by opening the door and sweeping the way and melting down or pulverizing all that was like to have resisted them I speak not of the Intention but of the Action by which the Separatists cut down the banks and when they had let in the Prelacy and Liturgy which they dislike then write and talk against them I will add one Question to this unpleasant Section If there be as few in all the Christian World yea among the reformed Calvinists and Lutherans out of our Kings Dominions that can pray as well without a form as with it as we have great cause to believe would he have all these Nations dissolve all their Churches and like Atheists cast off all