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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19060	A refutation of M. Ioseph Hall his apologeticall discourse, for the marriage of ecclesiasticall persons directed vnto M. Iohn VVhiting. In which is demonstrated the marriages of bishops, priests &c. to want all warrant of Scriptures or antiquity: and the freedome for such marriages, so often in the sayd discourse vrged, mentioned, and challenged to be a meere fiction. Written at the request of an English Protestant, by C.E. a Catholike priest.	Coffin, Edward, 1571-1626.	1619 (1619)	STC 5475; ESTC S108444	239,667	398

will you say to such madnes 130. And truly to me he seemeth not to be M. Hall ouerthrowne by his owne groundes more mad then blind for otherwise he would neuer haue proclaimed this freedome of 700. years seeing the very forme of wordes vsed by his owne sacred Synod doth so strongly withstand his fond collection for there it is decreed in these wordes Qui sunt in sacris coniugia deinceps ex Concil Trullan cap. 13. hoc temporis momento firma stabilia esse volumus We will that the marriages of such as be in holy orders from this tyme forward be firme and valid for in case this freedome had beene before common neuer doubted of but acknowledged by all why did they vse this forme of wordes ● why did they say from this tyme forward for why did they name the tyme forward which in al the tyme backward had beene still in vse neuer in question were it not a ridiculous decree if it should now by act of Parlament be enacted that from this tyme forward the King of Englād should be reputed to haue title to the Crowne of France which for almost three hundred years he hath taken and possessed If he say that the Roman Church withstood this pretended custome and against that this decree was made I graunt both the one and the other and thereof inferre this freedom to be counterfait as neuer in vse in the Latin Church and as then the Roman vse contradicted the Grecian so doth the French King now contradict our Soueraigne about this title not permitting any booke to be printed there wherin he is stiled King of France and yet doth not this opposition hinder but that such a decree in England were foolish and so is this in Greece if still they had beene in free possession of their wiues as they were neuer before that tyme when by too much flattering the Emperours they layd the first foundatiō of their future schisme which hath brought them to that most miserable thraldome in which now they liue and may both be an example and terrour of Gods iust reuenge to all others that make the like attempts 131. It is pitty M. Hall that when you got the Rethoricke lesson in Cambrige you had not got the Logicke for in case you had taught Logicke you would haue seene the folly and feeblenes of your inference rather haue made the contrary illation to that which you haue heere made for I appeale to all puny Sophisters in Cambrige whether it be not a better inference to say this thing is decreed from this instant for the tyme forwards to be obserued Ergo before it was not in vse then to dispute as you do thus from this instant forward this shall be allowed Ergo alwayes before it was approued All the walls and windowes from the Hall to the Kitchen may mourne to see an Vniuersity man to haue so little wit as to conclude so fondly and yet you do much worse when you argue that the Trullan false Councel allowed marryed men to be made Priests Ergo before it was lawfull for Ecclesiasticall men to marry when as before that tyme it was alwayes vnlawfull and in that very Councell it is not permitted but in plaine tearmes prohibited for any Clergy men to marry 132. This then being so that this Councel maketh not for you that it contradicteth it self that it brought in a new law in despight of the Roman Church that it was not only a prouinciall but a false and schismaticall meeting that it was neuer allowed that the Authors were seuerely punished by God as well the Patriarcke as the Emperour that the chiefe Pastour condemned it that your selfe do not vnderstand it and on the other side that all the other Synods are beyond exception sincere Catholike lawfull and authenticall I may say to M. Hall as S. August in Iulian. l. 2. cap. vltim Augustine did to Iulian the Pelagian Vsque adeo permiscuit imis summa longus dies vsque adeo tenebrae lux lux tenebrae esse dicuntur vt videant Pelagius Celestius Iulianus caeci sint Hilarius Gregorius Ambrosius Hath tract of tyme so confounded all things togeather turned them vpside downe is darknes so far forth become light and light darknes that the Trullan Councell alone could see the others of all Asia Europe and Affricke were blinded And in the precedent booke hauing alleadged some few Fathers of speciall note he turneth his speach vnto Iulian and sayth as I now Lib. 1. in Iulian. c. 4. say vnto M. Hall and therefore put his name and errours insteed of Iulians Introduxi te in sanctorum Patrum pacificum honor andumque conuentum sit op●rae pretiū obsecro te aspice illos quomodo aspicientes te c. I haue brought you into the peacable and honourable assembly of the holy Fathers I pray you let me not leese my labour behold them as it were beholding you and meekely and gently saying vnto you is it so indeed M. Hall are we mainteyners of the marriage of Clergy men I pray you what will you answere them how will you looke vpon them what arguments will you deuise what predicaments of Aristotle with which as a sharp disputer that you may assaile vs you desire to be esteemed cūning what edge of glosse of your feeble arguments or leadē daggers will dare to appeare in their sight what weapons of yours wil not fly out of your hands and leaue you naked will you say perchance that you haue accused none of them by name But what will you do when they all shall say vnto you that it had beene better you had railed at our names then at our Religion by the merit of which our names are written in heauen And a little after Iterum te admoneo iterum rogo aspice tot ac tales Ecclesiae Catholicae desensoret Ibid. atque rectores vide quibus tam grauem tam nesariam irrogaueris iniuriam Againe I warne you againe I intreate you behold so many and so worthy defenders and Gouernours of the Catholike Church see to whome you haue offered this grieuous and wicked iniury So S. Augustine 133. And heere to end if so many lawfull Councells against one schismaticall so ancient against so moderne so expresse decrees against one so intricate as that it maketh more against our Aduersaries then for them so many holy The conclusion of all this Trullan Controsy Bishops against a few seditious and turbulent Prelates so many Countreys against one Prouince yea all Asia Europe and Affrike against one corner of the world if the purer ages and Apostolicall tymes against the later when through the pride of those Princes Patriarches people they began to kindle the coles of that whereof now we see the flames and execrable combustion be not sufficient to moue M. Hall to looke backe but that copper if he list shall still be pure good light darknes and darcknes

Hier. l. 1. in Iouin sayth Vnius vxoris virunt qui vnam vxorem habuerit non habeat The husband of one wife who hath had one wife not he that hath her that is none is to be made Bishop who hath beene twice marryed or who yet vseth his wife in matrimony but he who hauing beene once marryed purposeth to liue in perpetuall continency Episcopi sayth he Presbyteri Diaconi aut Virgines eliguntur aut vidui aut certè post sacerdotium Apologia ad Pammach in fine in eternum pudi●i Bishops Priests Deacons are either chosen virgins or widdowers or certes after their priesthood such as for euer are continent So he 32. Againe he sayth Non enim dicit eligatur Episcopus qui vnam ducat vxorem sed qui vnam habuerit vxorem S. Paul sayth not let a Bishop be chosen who may marry one wife but who hath had one wife and this for the cleanes required in the Episcopall and Priestly functions as els where he declareth saying Si indignè accipiunt mariti non mihi irascantur sed Scripturis sanctis c. Apol. ad Pammach If marryed folkes take it ill that I preferre virgins so much before them let them not be angry with me but with the holy Scriptures yea with the Bishops Priests and Deacons with all the priestly and leuiticall quier who know that they cannot offer vp sacrifices if they attend to the duty of marriage So S. Hierome Hieron in Vigilant And against Vigilantius as though he had seene as it were in that roote the progeny of our marryed Bishops in England and ordering of Ministers who should charge all the parish Churches with their plentifull offspring he cryeth out Prohnefas Episcopos sui sceleris dicitur habere consortes c. O villany Vigilantius is sayd to haue Bishops partakers of his wickednes if they be to be named Bishops who order not their Deacons till they haue marryed wiues mistrusting the chastity of single men or rather shewing of Note this M. Hall what holines they are themselues who suspect ill of all and minister not the Sacraments of Christ till they see the wiues of Clergy men great with child and yong babes crying in their armes So he speaking in the person of Vigilantius to all our English Clergy who suspect that none can liue chast and therefore will haue all to marry to auoyd forsooth this idle impossibility 33. With S. Hierome agree in this exposition S. Augustine and S. Epiphanius and assigne also the same reason to wit the purity required De boro coniugali cap. 18. in Priests Clergy men Non absurdè est sayth S. Augustine eum qui excessit vxorum numerum singularem c. Not without cause hath it beene esteemed that he who hath exceeded the singular number of wiues should not therby be thought to haue committed any sinne but to haue lost a certayne d●cency required to the Sacrament not necessary to the merit of good life but to the Epiphan haeres 59. It is against the ancient Canons that Priests should marry seale of Ecclesiasticall ordination So he with more to the same effect And S. Epiphanius non suscipit sancta Dei praedicatio post Christi aduentum eos c. The holy doctrine of God after the comming of Christ admitteth not those who after one marriage death of their wiues do marry againe and that for the excellent honour and dignity of Priesthood and this the holy Church of God receaueth with all sincerity yea she doth not receaue the once marryed person that yet vseth his wife and begetteth children but only such a one she taketh to be a Deacon Priest Bishop or Subdeacon as abstayneth from his wife or is a widdower specially where the holy Canons are sincerely kept So he and I see not how possibly he could haue spoken more plainely for vs or we for our selues 34. S. Ambrose both in his commentary els where is no lesse cleare and resolute in this point then the former quamuis secundam habere vxorem c. although sayth he it be not forbidden Ambr. in 2. ad Tim. 3. to marry the second wife yet that one may be worthy to be a Bishop he must leaue his lawfull wife for the excellency of that order because he must be better then others who desire that dignity So he And in another place refelling as it were of purpose the opinion of S. Hierome who held that marriage before Baptisme Hier. ep ad Ocean did not hinder but that if a man tooke another wife after as Carterius whom he defendeth did he might notwithstanding his wife marryed after baptisme being also dead be made Priest restrayning bigamy to the second marriage Ambros l. 3. ep 25. edit Vaticanae ad Ecclesiam Vercellensem idem habetur l. 1. officiorū● vltimo of the faithful only S. Ambrose hereunto replyeth Quisine crimine est vnius vxoris vir teneatur ad legem sacerdotij suscipiendi c. Let him be preferred to priesthood who is without fault the husband of one wife he that hath marryed the second tyme hath no fault by which he is defiled but he is excluded from the prerogatiue of a Priest So he and addeth the Fathers in the Nicen Councell to haue decreed none to be admitted at al into the Clergy after the second marriage 35. And because S. Hierome vrged that all faults by the force and vertue of Baptisme were remitted and so the first marriage by the same either to be taken away if it were a sinne or cleansed if impure he answereth heereunto Culpa lauacro non lex soluitur c. The fault is forgiuen in baptisme the law not dissolued there is no fault in wedlocke but there is a law for priesthood the law is not remitted as a fault but remaines as a law therefore the Apostle made a law saying if any be faultes the husband of one wife So S Ambrose demanding in the same place this question which I likewise demand of M. Hall and all his marryed bretheren in England Quid interesset inter populum Sacerdotem The liues of Priests ought to be more pure then the liues of secular men si ijsdem adstringerentur legibus What difference should there be between Priest people if they should follow the same lawes if both should marry and both liue a like truly none at al and yet as this Father sayth Debet praeponderare vita Sacerdotis sicut praeponderat gratia The life of the Priest ought to be more eminent as his calling is more high and M. Hall as though he acknowledged no purity out of wedlocke or as though all that preferred continency were impure addeth after this testimony of the Apostle that one Ibidem word alone shall confirme me against all impure mouthes but if S. Ambrose had beene his Bishop he would haue taught him better to haue vnderstood the Apostle and to haue

were Bishops which is our controuersy and we both say and proue that for euer they were diuorced from them and liued in perpetuall continency apart this M. Hall should infringe and not produce some few marryed Bishops of the Primitiue Church few in number and ordered for the most part after the death of their wiues or if before yet were these Bishops dead to them because touching al coniugal dutyes they ceased to be their husbands 29. And this was so knowne so confessed so vncontrolled a truth that the first enemy and impugner of Clericall continency could not deny it and therefore S. Hierome boldly sayd vnto him Iouinian I meane Certè confiter is non posse Hier. l. 1. in Iouin esse Episcopum qui in Episcopatu filios faciat alioquin si deprehensus fuerit non quasi vir tenebitur sed quasi adulter damnabitur Doubtles thou dost confesse that he cannot be a Bishop who begets children in that state for if he be taken in the manner he shall not be reputed as a husband but condemned for an adulterer So S. Hierome and so plainly Baro. tom 1. ann 58. Basil ep 17 in addit as you see he pleadeth for vs that his wordes refuse all commentary and refute M. Halls contradiction and practise S. Basil writing to one Peragorius an old Priest rebuketh him sharply for taking his Presbiteram she-priest or wife into his house vpon perswasion that his great age would take away all suspition of incontinency and threatens excommunication vnles forthwith he dismissed her vrging the obseruance of the Nicen Canon and if this were not permitted vnto a Priest much lesse vnto a Bishop 30. But what need we stand vpon threats where exampls are not wāting of sharp punishments inflicted on Bishops either by themselues The pennance which Vrbicus Bishop of Claramōt did for knowing his wife after that he was made Bishop or others for transgressed continency and that euen with their wiues of either kind I will alleadge one for the former of a Bishop who liued with S. Basil or soone after called Vrbicus The story is related by Gregorius Turonensis who writeth how this man of a Senatour before was made of the Cleargy and after the death of Stremonius whome he succeeded Bishop of Claramont his wife all this while being aliue but after the Canonicall custome separated from him Vxorem habens sayth the Author quae iuxta consuetudinem Ecclesiasticam remota à consortio sacerdotis religiose Greg. Turonen l. 1. Histor Fran. cap. 44. viuebat Hauing a wife which according to the Ecclesiasticall custome religiously liued apart from the company of the Priest whome as the weaker vessel the Diuel tempting to returne to her husband againe so far preuailed as she also tempted the Bishop but not without a Text of Scripture of the Diuels prompting reuertimini ad alterutrum ne tentet vos Satanas returne to ech other least Sathan tempt you and with often importunate recourse made him relēt from that Ecclesiasticall vigour which should haue beene in one of his ranke and calling and yield to her desire But what did he thinke it lawful did he plead M. Halls impossible necessity or the posse nosse of the old Germans No such matter But ad se reuersus de perpetrato scelere condo●ens acturus poenitentiam Diecaesis suae Monasterium expetit ibique cum gemitu lachrimis quae commiserat diluens ad vrbem propriam est reuersus Entring into himselfe and repenting for the wicked fact he had done went to a Monastry of his diocesse to do pennance and there with sighs and teares blotting out the offences he had committed returned to his owne towne So this Author 31. And in this one example two thinges are very remarkable and cleerly conclude for vs Ecclesiasticall men liued apart from their wius vowed chastity in this behalfe first that the Ecclesiasticall custome was that when any was made Bishop if he were a marryed man his wife was to liue apart from him and secondly that both were bound to keep perpetuall chastity and neuer to claime any more matrimoniall dutyes one of the other and this later is gathered by necessary and ineuitable deduction for els why doth he cal it a wicked fact why did he do pennance for it if no prohibition entred no sinne was committed they remayning lawfull wife and husband as before which example alone is so hard a bone for M. Hall to gnaw vpon as he shall neuer be able to rid himselfe handsomely thereof being so ancient sheweth what wiues the Bishops had and what liberty in vsing them was allowed in those dayes if our Superintendents and Ministers of England had no more this controuersy had neuer byn raised but then were other tims other lawes other Bishops other beliefe 32. And least M. Hall obiect that this pennance was voluntary and proceeded of the too much scrupulosity of this Prelate let vs see another A notable example of the pennance Canonically imposed on Genebaldus for knowing his wife after that he was made Bishop of Laudun wherein by Canonical sentence and iudiciall seuerity it was inioyned Genebaldus Bishop of Laudune as Hinckmarus Archbishop of Rhemes in the life of S. Remigius reporteth being marryed vnto the Neece of the sayd Saint betaking himselfe to a religious life left her to whome he was marryed and not long after was made Bishop of Laudune and consecrated by S. Remigius himselfe but by the frequent recourse of his wife to him was tempted in the end yielded and knew her carnally againe whome for the attaining of spirituall perfection he had forsaken but Gods cals were not wanting to reclaime him nor he to Gods calls to returne backe from his errour wherefore sending for S. Remigius casting himselfe at his feet with many tears deplored his offence and that with such vehemency as he was checked for his so deep distrust which seemed to draw to despaire or to diminish that confidence which all sinners though neuer so great ought to haue in the abundant mercy of our most louing Redeemer if they be truely repentant 33. Notwithstanding this his griefe so excessiue yet did this his Metropolitan put him to S. Remigius dyed anno 545. seue repennance made him a little lodg to lye in with a bed in manner of a sepulcher with very narrow winddowes a little Oratory or praying place and therein shut him vp sealing fast the dore for seauen years togeather in which obscure den he did lead a most strict penitentiall life in so much as the same Author who is both graue and ancient relateth that at the end of the seauenth yeare when on the Wednesday in the holy week before Easter he had watched all the night in Prayer and with tears bewailed his offence he was comforted by an Angell and aduertised that his prayers were heard his pennance was accepted and the sinne forgiuen so was deliuered from

by another act declare that all Priests or Ecclesiasticall Gods law in two parlamēts made to affirme two contradictoryes persons by the law of God might lawfully marry and all contrary decrees are repealed and made voyd And what will you say to such Parlamēts one sayth that by the law of God Priests may not marry another that by the law of God it is lawfull for them to marry and yet this law of God is but one law and cannot be repugnant to it selfe and it may be noted how far Cranmer dispensed with his owne conscience dissembled Crāmers deep dissimulation in Religion and preuaricated in this K. Henryes Parlament who hauing his own Trull desiring opēly to enioy her yet for feare of the King not ōly kept her close but so also collogued with the rest or rather aboue the rest being the chiefest in place and authority in that Court vnder the King as he not only commended his high learning and knowledge but did also crouch creep to haue that confirmed which in his hart he did abhorre and vpon the first occasion offered did vtterly condemne I see he could make his garment to serue the tyme indeed his horse to trauell according to the weather O constant Prelate and worthy founder of our new English Ghospell 101. These then M. Hall being the first Taylers that framed this wedding garment of yours and tanke riders who taught you to runne this liberall race to let loose the reynes to all carnall delights and yet still to keep the name of spirituall Pastours you haue little cause to call it the law of equity which in the first making condemned the makers of so great inconstancy and faythles leuity as you haue heard but let vs follow you further in your demands Doth God say you make difference between Greece and England Ecclesiasticall and ciuill laws may be altered by such as are in suprem authority in the one and other causes I answere you that he doth and if they make an ill law in Greece you are not bound to follow it in England but to eschew and auoyd it or in case they be dispensed in some Ecclesiastical law by supreme Ecclesiasticall authority propter duritiam cordis eorum and to auoyd a further inconuenience it will not presently follow that you or yours in England may do the same as our Soueraigne in England can exempt a man from any law in particuler it will not I hope presently follow that all other subiects may clayme the same priuiledg againe if his Maiesty make some fauourable and beneficial law for all his subiects in generall which the Emperour in Bohemia would not allow were it not a wise question to demand Doth God make difference betweene King Iames and the Emperour Matthias between Prage London England England Bohemia These things M. Hall which depend on Ecclesiasticall or Ciuil lawes may be dispensed or altered when the occasions are very vrgent by them who haue supreme authority in the one and other Courts 102. Your last demand well bewrayeth your ignoaance and sheweth that you want the first grounds or principles of Philosophy or els you would neuer haue framed so impertinent a M. Hall ignorant demand question If it be lawfull say you why not euery where if vnlawfull why is it done any where I see now that we must take heed for this argument cornu ferit yet shall I with your leaue shew it to be much weaker then you take it for yea to be altogeather loose and impertinent and it may be answered in one word that such thinges as of their owne nature are intrinsecally euill as to kill steale lye slaunder and the like are vnlawful in all tymes places and persons but this is not so in other things which being of their owne nature and intrinsecall essence indifferent are made vnlawfull by some positiue law to the contrary and that either diuine as is working on the Saboth day in the old law marriag of more wiues at once and the like which therfore are vnlawful because they are prohibited but yet so as that they may by God the maker of them be dispensed in as not ill of their owne intrinsecall nature but as they haue annexed his prohibition restraint or Ecclesiasticall as of breaking of fasts commanded of neglecting feasts or omitting the ordinary ceremonyes rites or ordinances of the Church for as all men are children of this Mother so they ought to obey her precepts and no priuate authority can infringe which by so generall and publicke is imposed or els finally Ciuill for if the King command that none beare armes in the night tyme that they carry not corne to other Countreyes that they transpose no cloath or the like these things of their owne nature free are now made necessary by the ciuill command of the Prince and as he may dispense in the one so may the supreme spirituall Pastour in the other the one as chiefest in ciuill the other in Ecclesiasticall causes 103. This difference M. Hall not obseruing as he is dull in distinguishing confoundeth M. Halls confuse hudling of thinges togeather huddleth vp things togeather and supposeth either all things to be of their own nature good or euill or commanded a like by God for all to obserue which is not so for some things are left to the temporall Magistrate others to the spirituall to dispose and as Kings are to be obeyed according to S. Peter so also the Church according to our Sauiour and as to disobey the King in ciuil Matt. 28. matters is capitall so it is schismaticall not to obey the Church and as he is held a traytour who rebelleth against the King so he an Heathen or Publican who will not heare the Church and hence it commeth that as one King is of equall authority with another and so may recall any edict proclamation decree or iniunction made by his predecessours so likewise may one supreme Pastour when vrging necessity shall so require reuoke or repeale any Ecclesiasticall law made before his tyme and that eyther in all or in part as the nature of the thing shall require or a Generall Councell determine or he and his Councell shall thinke expedient and this prohibition of the marriage of Priests being of this nature I meane Ecclesiasticall it may be dispensed for one place and not for another and so it may also be lawfull or vnlawfull in one place and not in the other as the prohibition or dispensation in different places doth either bind or excuse The title which M. Hall giues vs of Romish Church I passe ouer as not worthy of reflexion this poore man must needs shew his nature and be contemptuous in all things 104. At length he commeth to the conclusion of this his obiection out of the Trullan Coūcell which is that it giueth leaue to all to marry This sacred Councell sayth he doth not only vniuersally approue this practise