Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	act_n	house_n	parliament_n	3,356	5	6.7800	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A90187	Severall papers of the treatie between His Excellencie Iames Marques of Ormond, Lord Lieutenant Generall of Ireland for the King, on the one part; and Sir Thomas Wharton, Sir Robert King, Sir John Clotworthy, Sir Robert Meredith, knights, and Richard Salwey Esquire, commissioners authorized by the two Houses of Parliament of England; on the other part. VVith the commissioners instructions concerning the Lord of Ormond; the instructions concerning the Protestants of Ireland, & compositions of delinquents: His Excellencies answer; and the Lord Lieutenants reply. With their reply to all his exceptions. And the Kings Maj. directions.	Ireland. Lord Lieutenant (1641-1649 : Ormonde); Ormonde, James Butler, Duke of, 1610-1688.; Wharton, Thomas, Sir.; England and Wales. Sovereign (1625-1649 : Charles I); England and Wales. Parliament.	1646 (1646)	Wing O458A; Thomason E378_4; ESTC R201374	32,080	45

shal be thought meet to extend it to in such way as may give best satisfaction according to our Instruction Except 4. That great inconveniency may happen to all the Protestants of Ireland who are to be included in this Treaty if they should therby conclude themselves to submit to all the Ordinances of Parliament Answ 1. We have declared c. That their submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament is to be understood no otherwise then as all others doe who have alwayes adhered to and never offended the Parliament 2. We know of no Ordinance of Parliament that requires the Covenant to be taken in the Kingdome of Ireland 3. We are no wayes instructed to suppresse the Book of Common Prayer or impose the Directory though your Lordships represented in your own Instructions that the Directory might be used here 4. It may also be considered That your Lordship made Overture of submitting to the Direction of both Houses of Parliament and that exclusively to any one wha●soever as to the ordering and disposing of the Army c. If they should accept of your Overture which could not be understood otherwise to be done but by Ordinances of Parliament as to them from time to time should seeme meet Exception 5. Lastly That the Kings direction for the Delivery up of the Government is not obteined and that your Commissioners were commanded to forbeare the delivering unto the S●●●ch Commissioner the duplicate of the Letters which your Lordship and the Councell had written to His Majesty concerning the same Answ 1. Wee are very confident what the Committee of both houses did therein was by direction of the Parliament 2. Your Commissioners did declare that if supplyes were not instantly dispatched you would take it for granted none would bee sent and therefore must be necessitated to think of some other course for your Preservation as by the Lawes of God and Nature became you and therefore it could not be imagined the necessity being so great under which your Lordship then was according to the representation thereof made to the Parliament that you would refuse such Supplies from the Parliament in manner as they directed till your Letter should be from thence sent to Newcastle and an answer thereof returned to your Lordship which would not undoubtedly have taken up much more time then the extremity of your Condition here according to the foresaid representation could possibly admit of And information was given that an addresse to the King was also made by your Lordship anot●er way and we have not yet understo●d by your Lordship that he hath inhibited you to proceed and conclude with us But more especially we desire it may be considered by your Lordship that in your letter to the King mentioned in your exceptions your Lordships expressions are full to proceed with the Parliament up●n the overture made to them in the Propositions not onely without desiring answer but without expecting consent or direction from his Majesty before such time as you would conclude the same and your Lordship doth onely give an accompt of your Resolutions his Majesty unconsulted with as already fix't with exp●ctation onely of a benigne construction from his Majesty thereupon And that not onely from the consideration of necessity but as we conceive of your Lordships du●y also as the case the● stood no lesse then a Kingdome lying at the Stake to make your application in such manner to the Parliament 3. May it not also be consid●red what reason the Parliament had to conceive your Lordship intended not so to insist on the Kings direction as with u● it you would not conclude when they observed that by those Propositions from your Lordship a Copy whereof you have delivered us you offered if they should accept thereof to put your present Army and Forces called by your Lordship his Majesties Army Notwithstanding any interest you apprehended the King had therein under the sole direction of both Houses of Parliament And yet in those Propositions we finde no mention made of consent or direction to be first had from the King which was believed your Lordship then as at this time also might the better do for that by act of Parliament the mannaging of the Wa● of Ireland is established in both Houses of Parliament alone 4. It may be considered that however many eases of this nature in the late troubles in England have happened where Persons under great obligations to the King have frequently surrend●ed to the Parliament Garisons and Forces which they received by command from his Majesty as in particular that of Oxford where remained not onely the Duke of Yorke and his Majesties Councell but also the Sword the great and lesser Seales with other Ensignes of the Regall Power and al● these without first having any explicite direction from the King to deliver up the same 5. When we also consider how passionately it was represented to the Parliament by your Lordship of how great importance the City and Castle of Dublin together with the Garisons under your Command were in order to the recovery of the Kingdome of Ireland the preservation of the Protestant Religion together with all the Protestants therein as also how undoubtedly all must miscarry if Supplies did not timely come We cannot but wonder that in case of so high concernment and so great necessity the spilling of the blood of so many thousand Protestants being unavoidable according to the grounds and representations offered by your Lordship to the Parliament the danger whereof remaines the same for ought hath occurred to us granted also by the losse of many Garisons since and will be perfected by your rejecting the Supplies with so much expedition and Charge sent hither by the Parliament that yet the Kings consent should be so insisted on as that neither the preservation of the said Protestant Religion nor the blood of thousands of Protestants nor any of the fore-mentioned Considerations should pu●chase a Dispensation therein 6. And whereas your Lordships Oath is objected It appeares to us to be penn'd with speciall caution and relation to such a time of necessity as this and is rather as we conceive sullfilled by consent to then refusall of the conditions offered to your Lordship unto which also we believe that respect was had when those Resolutions were taken up expressed in the fore-mentioned Letter to the King Wee hold it our Duty to deale thus cleerly and freely with your Lordship that if it were possible we might give satisfaction thereby However our consciences doe acquit us that we have done our utmost therein and do● conceive that those that imployed us will be abundantly acquitted in the sight of God and Man as having done what could be expected from them and unto whom for any neglect in this affaire the guilt of Blood we are confident shall not be imputed in that day wherein inquisition shall be made for the same Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy Rion Salwey November 1646.

SEVERALL PAPERS OF THE TREATIE BETWEEN His Excellencie IAMES Marques of ORMOND Lord Lieutenant Generall of IRELAND for the KING on the one part AND Sir Thomas Wharton Sir Robert King Sir John Clotworthy Sir Robert Meredith Knights and Richard Salwey Esquire Commissioners authorized by the Two Houses of PARLIAMENT of ENGLAND on the other part VVith the Commissioners Instructions concerning the Lord of Ormond the Instructions concerning the Protestants of Ireland Compositions of Delinquents His Excellencies Propositions and the Commissioners their Answer and the Lord Lieutenants Reply With their Reply to all his Exceptions And the Kings Maj. Directions DVBLIN Printed by William Blad●n Printer to the Kings most Excellent Majesty Anno Dom. 1646. At the Committee of Lords and Commons at Darby house BY Vertue of an Ordinance of Parl. of the 15. of this instant October authorizing us We do constitute and appoint you Sir T. Whatton Sir Rob. King Sir John Clatworthy and Sir Robert Meredith Knights and Rich. Salwey Esq Commissioners to treat with the Lord of Ormond for and concerning the delivery of the Sword the City of Dublin and all other Garrisons and Holds in his power And you or any three of you have hereby power to treat with the said L. of Ormond concerning the premises and to agree conclude with him concerning the same acoording to such instructions as are delivered unto you Given this 23 of October 1646. Northumberland E. Manchester P. Lisle P. Wharton W. Peirrepoint Denzel Hollis P. Stapleton W. Lewis J. Temple Ro. Goodwyn Copia vera Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Die Lunae 12. October 1646. IT is this day Ordered by the Commons assembled in Parliament That it be referred to the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdomes to consider of these Letters and to receive the Addresses of the Commissioners from Ireland and their Prop●sitions and to view and consider of their Instructions and the Members of this House that are of the Committee of both Kingdomes or any four of them have power to meet this Afternoon at two of the clock in Darby-house for the purposes aforesaid and haue power to report tomorrow if they shall see occasion And the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland Mr. Hollis Sir John Clotworthy and Sir Iohn Temple have power and are desired to be present at the meeting of this Committee Mr. Na. Fi●es Sir W. Lewis and Mr. Rob. Goodwyn are added to this Committee Hen. Elsynge Cler. Parl. D. Com. Die Jovis 15. Octobris 1646. THE Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament do declare that they resolve to proceed upon the second way of Overture made by the Earl of Ormond and will appoint some way of treating with him for his Retirement and will imploy such as they shall think fit in the Trust of that Kingdome John Brown Cler. Parliament Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Die Jovis 15. Octobris 1646. ORdered by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled That the whole Affaire concerning Ireland in respect of the secresie and expedition thereunto necessary be referred back to the former Committee And the Committee hath power to give Instructions to such as they shall imploy for the pursuance and transaction of that Affaire and to Order the Forc●s that shall go thither and to dispose of the Ammunition and other Provisions for the Service of Ireland as they shall judge best for the Publique Service and are to meet this Afternoon and so from time to time as they shall see cause John Brown Cler. Parliament Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Instructions for Sir Tho. Wharton Sir Rob. King Sir John Clotworthy Sir Rob. Meredith Knights and Rich. Salwey Esq concerning the Lord of Ormond YOu are to declare to the L. of Ormond the E. of Roscommon and the rest of those that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerrard Lowther Sir Francis Willoughby and Sir Panl Davies That the Parliament will take into their Care and Protection the Protestants of Ireland If the L. of Ormond do within foure dayes deliver up the Swo●d render all the Garrisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament Then you or any three of you are to give these ensuing Conditions 1. That the L. of Ormond shall enjoy his estate without molestation or disturbance from the Parl. And shall have indempnity against all debts contracted by reason of any Goods Money Debts or Victuals taken up by vertue of any Warrants signed by him and the Councel from any person for the maintenance and support of the Armies or any of the Garrisons now under his Command 2. That he shall be protected in his Person and Goods for the space of 12 moneths against all Suits Arrests Molestation or Disturbance from any person whatsoever for any Debts owing by him to any person whatsoever before the Rebellion there 3. That the L. of Ormond and all such Noblemen Gentlemen and Officers as shall be desirous to go with him or by themselves into any other place out of that Kingdom shall have free Passes for themselves their Families Goods travelling Arms and a competent number of servants sutable to their respective Qualities 4. That the L. of Ormond shall have 5000. l. paid him in England or Ireland in such manner as shall seeme best to the Commissioners now sent And shall have also 2000. l. per annum for 5 yeares And if the Warre shall longer continue in such manner as he cannot receive 2000. l. per annum out of his owne Estate That then he shall have the said Pension of 2000. l. per annum still continued untill he can receive so much out of his own estate 5. That the L. of Ormond shall have liberty to come and live here in England With the like liberty that others have he submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament And for the time of 12 moneths shall not be pressed to any Oaths he ingaging his honour to do nothing in the mean time that shall be disservice to the Parliament darby-Darby-house 17 Octob. 1646. A. Northumberland E. Manchester P. Lisle P. Wharton W. Pierrepoint Denzel Hollis W. Waller W. Armyn Ph. Stapleton Iohn Temple W. Lewis Ro. Wallop Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Novemb. 15. 1646. VVE find in the Instructions delivered in by you unto us That you are to declare unto us and the rest that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerard Lowther c. That the Parl. will take into their Gare and Protection the Protestants of Ireland We desire to know whether by these words viz. That the Parl. will take into their Gare and Protection the Protestants of Ireland All the Protestants of Ireland are to enjoy their Laws Liberties Estates and Imployments without molestation or disturbance from the Parliament of England ORMOND Novem. 15. 1646. VVEE find by the Instructions delivered in by you unto us these words viz. If the Lord of Ormond doe within 4 dayes deliver up the Sword render all the Garrisons and other Commands

to the pleasure of the Parliament then c. Wee desire to know when the said foure dayes shall be understood to begin and to what Person or Persons and to whose use the said Sword Garrisons and other Commands are desired to be delivered up or rendred ORMOND Novem. 15. 1646. TO your Lordships first Paper of the 15 of Novem. we return this Answer That we are required by the Paper of Instructions delivered to your Lordship to declare to your Lordship the E. of Roscomon and the rest that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerard Lowther c. That the Parliament will take into their Care and Protection the Protestants of Ireland But desire to be excused from giving a particular explatation of those words in that Paper being not directed so to do yet conceive there ought to be no doubt of a fair interpretation thereof Rob. Meredith Ths. Wharton Rob. King Iohn Clotworthy Ri. Salwey Novem. 15. 1646. ALthough we question not a fair interpretation yet in matters so highly importing the safety and subsistence of the stants of this Kingdome we may not leave them to the uncertainty of future interpretation and therefore we cannot re● satisfied without clearer assurance in their behalf then we fi●de either in the Instruction delivered unto us by you this d●y whereof we desire an Explanation or the Answer given y●● you to our first Paper ORMOND 15. Novem. 1646. TO your Lordships second Paper of the 15. of November we return this Answer That the four dayes appointed for the Treaty with your Lordship within which time we are to bring our Debates to a conclusion we understand did begin this 15. of Novemb. 1646. at 9 in the morning And we who are appointed Commissioners by Authority from the Parl. of England are to receive from your Lordship if the Treaty succeed the Sword and Garrisons under your Command for the use of the Parliament of England in order to the preservation of the Protestants in the Kingdom of Ireland Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob King John Clotworthy Rich. Salwey 15. Novem. 1646. VVEE desire to know whether your Lordship rests satisfied in all the particulars of the Paper of Instructions delivered to you by us this day saving that which concernes the Protestants as is expressed in your Lordships third Paper Rob. Meredith T. Wharton Rob. King Iohn Clotworthy Rich. Salwey November 15. 1646. VVE hold it not fit to declare our sense concening the particulars of the paper of Instruction delivered by you to us which concern our self untill assurance be first given for the safety and subsistence of the Protestants of this Kingdome which we desire may be hastened for the bringing of this Treaty to a speedy and good conclusion ORMOND November 15. 1646. FOrasmuch as your Lordship in your third paper of the fifteenth of this instant doth expresse That you cannot rest satisfied without clearer assurance on the behalfe of the Protestants of Ireland then you find either in the instructions delivered to you by us this day or in our answers to your Lordship touching the explanation thereof as was in your first paper desired And whereas your Lordship in your fourth in answer to our third hath signified that you hold it not fit to declare your sense concerning the particulars of the paper of Instructions which concern your selfe untill assurance be first given for the safety and subsistance of the Protestants of the kingdom of Ireland to the end nothing may be wanting on our parts to bring this Treaty to a speedy happy conclusion we hold it fit to declare That by an additional Instruction which we night not sooner impart we are enabled to give to such Protestants not having been in the Irish rebellion as we condition withall assurance of security to their persons and to their estates and goods that they have in Ireland and that they may live quietly and securely under the protection of the Parliament and their Forces either within England Ireland or Wales and that they shall enjoy those their estates and goods without any molestation or question faom the Parliament as any others doe who have not offended the Parliament they submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament and if any of them have any lands or estates in England they are to compound for the same at the rate of two yeares profit as they were before the beginning of these troubles They submitting to all ordinances of Parliament Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clorworthy Ri. Salwey 15. November 1646. BEfore we make answer to your fourth paper of the fifteenth of November we hold it needfull to have an authentick copy of the additionall Instruction therein mentioned being for the security of the Protestant-Subjects of this Kingdome And we desire authentick copies of such other additionall Instructions as you have in regard your commission is limited by and hath relation to your instructions ORMOND 16. November 1646. TO your Lordships fifth paper of the fifteenth of November we return this answer That to the end nothing may be wanting on our parts conducing to the security of the Protestants of Ireland according to the Instructions given us by authority of Parliament and that we may accordingly put a speedy conclusion to this Treaty we doe for your Lordships more ample satisfaction though we hold not our selves obliged thereunto herewith freely deliver your Lordship an Authentick copy of the additionall Instructions But we must desire to be excused from giving any further answer to the said paper untill we receive your Loadships positive answer upon the papers already given in hoping it will be believed That as we have not hitherto so we shall not for the future offer any thing unto which we are not warranted by our Instructions Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King John Clotworthy Ri. Salwey The Additionall Instruction concerning the Protestants of Ireland YOu or any three of you may give to such Protestants not having been in the Irish Rebellion as you condition with all assurance of security to their persons and to their estates and goods that they have in Ireland and that they may live quietly and securely under the protection of the Parliament and their Forces either within England Ireland or Wales And you may likewise assure them that they shall enjoy those their estates and goods without any molestation or question from the Parliament as any others doe who have not affended the Parliament They submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament And if any of them have any Lands or Estates in England they are to compound for the same at the rate of two yeares profit as they were before the beginning of these troubles They submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament Derby House Octob. 17. 1646. Northumberland E. Manchester P. Lisl● P. Wharton W. Pierpoint Denzil Hollis W. Waller P. Stapleton W. Armyne Wil. Lewis I. Temple R. Wallop Copia vera exam W. Row Secret Dublin 16. November 1646. VVHereas we have been info●med that the Armies

conditions offered in our former papers and to give us a speedy resolution therein Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io Clotworthy Ri. Salwey Instructions for Sir Thomas Wharton Sir Robert King Sir John Clotworthy and Sir Rob. Meredith Knights and Richard Salwey Esquire imployed to the Lord of Ormond and others at Dublin You may receive any Protestant who hath not been in the Irish rebellion though he hath of late consented or submitted either to the cessation of A mes or the peace concluded with the Irish reb●ls so as they submit to the Pa●liament within twenty dayes after your sending for them You or any three of you have power hereby to give protection to ●uch as will come under contribution and to give them the best safeguard you can by the countenan●e of the Forces serving under the Parliament You or any three of you may give to such Protestants not having been in the Irish ●ebellion as you condition withall assurance of security to their persons and to their estates and goods that they have in Ireland and that t●ey may live quietly and securely under the protection o● the Parliament and their Forces either within England Ireland or Wales and you may likewise assure them that they shall enjoy those their Estates and Goods without any molestation or question from the Parliament as any others doe who have not offended the Parliament they submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament ann if any of them have any Lands or Estates in England they are to compound for the same at the rate of two yeares profit as they were before the beginning of these troubles they submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament darby-Darby-house Octob. 17. 1646. Northumberland W. P●erpoint W. Waller Manchester Denz Hollis P. Stapleton P. Lisle W. Lewis I. Temple P. Wharton W. Armine Ro. Wallop 17. November 1647. IN your third paper of the 16. of November are these words viz. That for the Officers of the Martiall List we have power by our Intructions and ●o intend accordingly to imploy such of them as shall be found fit for the service A Copy of which Instruction we desire that we may the better judge how farre the security and future subsistence of the said Officers is thereby provided for Ormond November 17. 1646. In answer to your Lordships first paper of the 17. of this Moneth wee herein deliver a Copy of the Instructions therein desired Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy R. Salwey YOu or any three of you are to imploy such of the Officers now under the Lord of O●mond as you shall thinke fit and where you displace any you are to place other Officers if they be necessary or otherwise to see their Commands sufficiently discharged untill the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland take further order Signed as the rest of the Instruction Copia vera exam W. Rowe Secr. 17. Novemb. 1646. BY our second paper of the 16. of November wee desired you for the bringing of the present debates to a speedy dy conclusion to set down fully and clearly how farre the propositions positions which we sent to the Parliament by our Commissioners are assenced unto and we did by our said paper declare that upon view and consideration thereof we would speedily give our positive answer to which by our first paper of the 17. of November you say that you cannot answer our desire therein neither those propositions nor copies of them being delivered unto you We think fit to declare unto you that our Commissioners delivered our Propositions and Instructions to the Committee of both Houses and that they took Copies thereof and that our Commissioners doe by their letters of the 16. of October 1646 certifie us by the command of the said Committee that with the succours there would also arriue here certain Commissioners to bee sent from the Parliament to treat with us upon the particulars contained in the Propositions and Instructions sent to the Parliament from us Copies of which Propositions and Instructions we are ready to send unto you if that you shall desire the same And we again desire you to declare fully and clearly how far you have power and will assent to our said Propositions or whether we shall give our positive answer to the papers already delivered by you taking it for granted that you have no further or other Instructions then what you have delivered us Ormond 17. November 1646. TO your Lordships second paper of the 17. of November wherein you again desire us to declare fully and clearly how farre we have power and will assent to the Propositions sent to the Parliament by your Commissioners we can return no other answer then we have already done in our two first papers of the 16. and 17. of Novemb. in the later of which we declare we have not those propositions nor copies of them nor we think it expedient upon this occasion to receive the same from your Lordship yet we desire the want of those Propositions may not be conceived the only reason of our forbearance of giving further answer to your Lordships paper but hold it our duty to insist upon your Lordships positive answer to the papers already given in Rob Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clotworthy Ri. Salwey 17. November 1646. If you shall positively declate that you have no power or instructions to enlarge your selves beyond what is expressed in your former papers we will then give a positive answer to those papers Ormond 17 November 1646. We cannot more largely or positively expresse the power and extent of our instructions we have then already done but doe again in pursuance of our instructions desire your Lordsh●p● answer to the papers given in Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob King Jo Clotworthy Ri. Salwey 17 November 1646. We did not by our third paper o● the 17. of November desire to know whether you could more largely or positively express th● power intent of your instructions then you had formerly done But we expressed that if you would positively declare you had no power or instructions to enlarge your selves beyond what is express●d in your former papers wee would then give a positive answer to those papers which by your answer thereunto you have neither affirmed nor denied And therefore we forbear to give a positive answer to your said papers till we be satisfied in that particular Ormond 18. November 1646. Having taken into consideration your Lordships last paper of the 17. of Novemb. we return you this answer that wea hold not fit positively to declare whether wee have any power or instruction to enlarge our selves beyond what is expressed in our former paper nor doewe conceive it ought to be expected from us for that to omit other reasons wee have frequently declared that we are according to our instructions to receive your Lordships positive answer upon the papers already given in which we now again desire from your Lordship Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy

instruction to his Majesties Protestant Subjects for their Estates Your fourth answer is If any thing can be reasonably offered in the behalfe of such Papists as have adhered to the present Government and not been in the Irish Rebellion it shall be also recommended back by you to those who imployed you in the best manner you can to out satisfaction The latter part of which answer being the best part thereof we desire may be pursued for the first part thereof doth inforce the Exception it being made a doubt whether any thing can be reasonably offered for such Papists as have adhered to the present Government and not been in the Irish Rebellion whereas nothing in reason can be offered against such but that they should be secured in their persons and estates Our third Exception is That no assurance is given that the Judges and Ministers of the Civill and Martiall List shall be continued in their places and imployments which is answered by you as followeth First nothing is given us in charge nor hath any thing been expressed by us concerning the removall of the Judges and Ministers of the Civill List nor of any of them which answer doth not satisfie us for we desire by our Proposition to have an assurance for the continuing them in their respective imployments which is not yet assented unto Your second answer is That in cases of like nature it hath not been known that persons so qualified have been continued and estiblished by Treaty nor was it to your knowledge ever heretofore insisted upon by any whomsoever which answer doth not satisfie us for though you might shew that the contrary hath been done in like cases as we beleeve you cannot yet even for that cause we have the more reason to insist upon it Your third answer is If it must be presumed that they have offended the Parliament yet assurance is given and otherwise they can need none for security to their persons with enjoyment of their goods and estates in the Kingdome of Ireland as if they had not offended and have liberty to compound for the estates any of them have in England and such Composition not to exceed two yeares value We are not satisfied with this your answer for there is nothing here to assure them the continuance in their imployments and our Proposition made in their behalfe for their continuance in their imployments cannot presume cannot presume a guilt and it is no reason to say that if they be not guilty they need desire this assurance for the Judges doe well understand that abundans cautela non nocet and if it must be presumed that they have offended the Parliament there is the more reason to insist on the Proposition for the continuing of them in their respective imployments they having been dispoyled of all their estates To your expression whereby you would satisfie us concerning the continuing in imployment the Officers now under our Command viz. That as you have not yet taken up a resolution if the Treaty should succeed to displace any so you declare it must be an extraordinary cause that must induce you to it wee easily beleeve that as it is too early for you to declare a resolution to turne them out of their imployments though such a resolution were taken up by you till you possest of the power to do it so you may judge such a declaration not to be the readiest way to attaine to that power by Treaty from us which We are confident is the only way whereby you will at this time attempt it but when by that meanes you should be invested in that Power the questiou is whether you would not then understand that the Concurrence of some of the Marriāll List with us in the conclusion of the Cessations and peace here the actuall Service of some others in His Majesties Armies in England and the obedience given by all to some Commands that may have been displeasing to the two Houses of Parliament in England to be extraordinary and sufficient causes for their removeall wherein if you shall declare negatively wee shall rest satisfied as to that particular not could our Demand of having them secured in their respective imployments be understood to reach to a forgivenesse of such Crimes in future as may merit displacing for which we confesse we can no more alleadge a president then we beleeve you can that ever the sword was demanded to be delivered by the Chiefe Governour of this Kingdome to Commissioners of the Parliament of England without the Command of the King Exception 4. Our fourth exception being as followeth viz. That great inconvenience may happen to all the Protestants of Ireland who are to be included in this treaty if they should thereby conclude themselves to submit to all Ordinances of Parliawent is answered by you as followeth Answer 1. Your first Answer is we have declared that their submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament is to bee understood no otherwise then as all others doe who have alwayes adhered to and never offended the Parliament with which answer we are not satisfied it being no more then that we are to submit to all the Ordinances of Parliament to which those who are of the Parliament party submit as the Covenant the Directory the abolishing of the Booke of Common-prayer c. A●swer 2. Your second answer is we know of no Ordinance of Parliament that requireth the Covenant to be taken in the Kingdome of Ireland with which answer wee are not satified for we know that it hath been prest in all parts of the Kingdome where the Parliament hath prevailed as in the Provinces of Munster Vlster and Connaught there being some Ministers not long since employed into Vlster who went from Town to Town and from City to City pressing the Covenant whereupon many Protestants did acquit their Commands and habitations in those parts rather then they would subiect themselves to it and if the same was done without an Ordinance of Parliament we have the more reason to insist that his Maiesties Subiects may be secured against so violent and unwaranted pressures upon their Consciences And if you know no Ordinances of Parliament which requireth the Covenant to be taken in the Kingdome of Ireland you may the better undertake that it shall not be pressed and if you bee not instructed to suppresse the Book of Common prayer or impose tho Directory you may the better condescend to what is desired concerning both so far as is expressed in our instructions Answer 4. Your fourth answer is It may also be considered that your Lordship made Overture of submitting to the Direction of both houses of Parliament and that exclusively to any other whatsoever as to to the ordering and disposing of the Army c. if they should accept of your Overture which could not be understood otherwise to be done but by Ordinances of Parl as to them from time to time should seeme meet VVe are not satisfied with this

Rich. Salwey 18 November 1646. In the Copy of some of the Instructions delivered by you unto us it is thus expressed That if the Lord of Ormond do within 4 dayes deliver up the sword render up all the Garcisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament then you or any three of you are to give these ensuing Conditions c. And in your second paper of the 15. of Novemb 1646. you expresse your selves amongst other things as followeth viz. Wee who are appointed Commissioners by authority from the Parl. of England are to receive from your Lordship if the treaty succeed the Sword and Garrisons under your Command for the use of the Parl. of England To which and your other papers before we can make answer we desire to know whether you have his Majesties Direction and Command unto us for our so doing Ormond 18. November 1646. To your Lordships first paper of the 18. of this moneth we answer that we have not his Maj. direction and command unto your Lordship for delivering up the Sword rendring up all the Garrisons and Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King John Clotworthy Rich. Salwey 18. Novemb. 1646. The papers delivered by you unto us whereunto you desire our positive answer gave occasion vnto us to take into consideration aswell the Propositions and Instructions signed by us alone and sent by our Commissioners to be presented to the Parliament of England as also the Propositions and Instructions signed by us and the Councell of this Kingdome and other Propositions and Instructions signed by the said Councell a-part and sent by our said Commissioners to be in like sort presented all which Propositions and Instructions they delivered to the Committee of both honses appointed to consider thereof who took Copies of the said Propositions and Instructions Copies of which Propositions signed by us alone we think fit to insert herein viz. Propositions of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to be presented c. THat the said Lord Lieutenant will prosecute the Warre against the Irish Rebels as vigorously as he shall be thereunto enabled by the Pari. of England and that he will faithfully serve the Crown of England therein 2 That whilst he hath the Government of this Kingdom and the Command of the Armies therein none of the Supplies of Men Money Arms Munition Victuals or any other provisions of what kind or nature soever which shall by the PARLIAMENT of ENGLAND be sent over or joyned with the Forces already under his Command nor any other Forces that shall be under his Command shall in any wise be imployed either within this Kingdome or out of it but by the expresse direction of the said Parliament of England 3 That he will not upon any Command or by vertue of any power or authority whatsoever enter into any Treaty with the said Irish Rebels or conclude any Peace or Cessation with them without the consent and expresse Command of the King and Parliament of England 4. He will ingage himself to the true performance of all these things by Oath or by any other meanes that can be proposed to a man of Honour and Conscience 26 Septemb. 1646. Ormond Now forasmuch as we do not find by our papers that any one of the said Propositions which haue been transmi●●ed from hence is assented unto by the Parl. of England though we have pressed you by severall papers to know how farre they were assented unto And for that it appeareth unto us by those papers that no Copies of the said Propositions or Instructions were delivered unto you and that when we upon that signification did offer unto you copies of both you did not think it expedient upon this occasion to receive the same from us And for that by the papers and copies of Instructions delivered by you unto us We find ●o security offered to any of the Protestants but to such as you shall condition withall and who shall submit to all Ordinances of Parliament whereas we expected that all should bee included and provided for in and by the present Treaty and what those conditions o● Ordinances of Parliament are you doe not ascertaine by any of your papers And for that it doth not appear unto us by any the Instructions whereof you have delivered copies unto us that you have power to secure any other of his Majesties Subjects who have constantly adhered to the Government here since the 22 of October 1641. in their persons and estates And for that the Officers of his Majesties Army here and the Judges and Ministers of the Civil List have no assurance given them for their continuance in their respective imployments your expression as unto them being as follo weth viz. Concerning the continuation and displacing of the Judges and Ministers of the civill List in their imployments we are not instructed therein but for the Officers of the Martiall List we have power by our Instructions and do intend accordingly to imploy such of them as shall be found fit for the service which giveth no assurance unto any one of the Martiall List and leaveth the Civill List without any security taketh no notice of the poore distressed Clergy of the Kingdom In all which particulars being contained in our Propositions and Instructions we did hopr that the Parl. of England would have giuen us satisfaction which being not yet done for any thing made known by you to us and for that you have by your paper of the 18. of Novemb. 1646. declared unto us that you have not his Maj. direction and command unto us for delivering up the Sword rendring up all the Garrisons and Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament which you by your second paper of the 15. of Novemb. 1646. desire to be rendred unto you to the use of the Parliament without any relation in your said paper to the King we hold it not consistent with our Duty to his Majesty to part with so great a Trust committed to our charge in manner as by your papers is desired without his Maj. expresse and positive Directions and therefore may not assent thereunto Ormond 18. Novemb. 1646 Whereas we did together with our first paper of the 16. of Novemb. deliver in to your Lordship an authentique copy of the additionall instruction concerning the Protestants of Ireland unto which your Lordship hath taken severall exceptions we think good for your satisfaction therein now to declare that we intend that all Protestants whatsoever of the Kingdome of Ireland not having been in the Irish Rebellion shall be included in this treaty and receive the full benefit expres●n the said instruction And that the conditions implyed in that instruction to be imposed on them shall be understood as followeth viz. Whereas it is said they shall enjoy those their Estates and Goods without any molestation or question from the Parl. as nay others do who have not offended the Parl. they submitting to all Ordinances

your Answer the strength of your reason being thus That we did submit to the direction of both Houses of Parliament for the ordering of the Army c. therefore no inconvenience can happen to the Protestants in Ireland who are to be included in this Treaty if they should thereby conclude themselves to submit to all Ordinances of the Parliament of England which sure is no good Consequence from one particular to conclude a generall And if you would declare that by submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament were onely intended such Ordinances as concerne the ordering and disposing of the Army though that offer of Ours was in case that way of accommodation which is waved by the Parliament were laid hold of of any thing wherein we therefore conceive no use should be made in this Treaty since that way laid aside yet such a declaration would as that point give satisfaction The fifth exception is That the Kings Direction for the delivery up of the Government is not obtained and that our Commissioners were commanded to forbeare the delivering unto the Scottish Commissioners the Duplicate of the Letters which Wee and the Councell had written to his Majesty concerning the same To which you make these Answers viz. That our Commissioners did declare That if Supplies were not instantly dispatched that We would take it for granted that none would be sent which was the ground of hastning the said Supplies whereas the words of our Instructions wero That if within a reasonable time after landing of our Commissioners they did not advertise us that those things we desired were on the way hither or at least a considerable proportion of Money and Munition and probable hope of the rest speedily after that then wee would take it for granted not that no Supplies would come but that our Propositions were rejected there which strongly implyed and so was intended that if we understood Supplies were on the way we might then take it for granted our propositions were accepted which also we had cause to believe for that our Commissioners by command of the Committee before whom they were heard signifyed to us their message was cheerfully accepted whereof the sending of Supplies was but a part nor can it be reasonably objected to us that we refuse those Supplies since none of the Conditions wherein we expressed our willingnes to receive them is offered to us in manner as was desired especially that fundamentall one of procuring the Kings Command for delivering up the Sword and Garrisons which being the way fixed on by the Parliament we much wonder was not endeavoured as well it might have been and an answer had before you came from London and if it had been obtained there had been no need of sending it to us till your arrivall and if it had been refused the Parliament in their great wisdome and knowledge of the duty of one so highly trusted would have found some other expedient to extend their assistance and protection to the Protestants other then such as must blemish our honour and fidelity to all Posterity nor is it a sufficient discharge to us that his Majesty hath not inhibited us to proceed and conclude with you his expresse command being in this case absolutely necessary And as for the suppositions and inferences which you make out of the Letters writ by us to his Majey and both houses of Parliament as that it could not be imagined the necessities being so great under which we then were that we would refuse such supplies from the Parliament in manner as they directed till our letter should be from hence sent to New castle and answer thereof returned to us And that the Parliament had no reason to conceive that we intended so to insist on the Kings direction as without it we would not conclude c. As also considering how passionately we represented to the Parliament the importance of the City and Castle of Dublin c. and how undoubtedly all must miscarry if Supplies did not speedily come that yet the Kings consent should be so insisted upon as none of the forementioned considerations should purchase a dispensation therein And to induce us thereunto you propose unto us examples of the delivering up of other Garrisons and Forces in England as in particular that of Oxford c. without having any explicite direction from the King to deliver up the same We conceive the case of Oxford to be different from this For Sir Thomas Fairfax to whom the City of Oxford was rendred after some time of formall Singe and the shedding of blood on both fides was not invited thither by those within to defend and relieve it against the expected attempts of another enemy as those Forces now here with you were upon certain Conditions by us but his comming before Oxford was unsent for openly and declaredly to take by force of Armes that City In the case of Oxford also we have seen his Majesties Command directed to the Governour for the rendring thereof which if you can produce to us for the giving up of these Garrisons with the E●sig●es of Royalty belonging to the Crown of this Kingdome we will in like sort readily obey the same notwithstanding some other disparity in the cases And if the instructions we gave our Commissioners be looked into Copies whereof were delivered by them to the Committee of both houses all these suspitions inferences and Arguments will vanish it being a certain and true rule that no inference nor application is to be made contrary to that which is exprest as our instructions were in this particular for our first and principall instruction was That we would surrender our place of Lievtenant c. to such as the Parliament should appoint upon these following conditions First that they procure his Majesties direction for the doing thereof c. But further to cleere it in our seventh and last instruction delivered unto our Commissioners whereof the said Committee had likewise a Coppy it is further given in charge unto them in this manner viz. If in the mean time whilest they take these Propositions and the rest into their considerations and till they have procured his M●j●sties direction as aforesaid the Parliament be pleased to send over such Supplyes as may relieve the Garrisons from ruine through want or by the hostile attempts of the Rebels the same shall be well husbanded for them and imployed only to those ends both which instructions leave no place for inference or implication to be made contrary to expresse instructions If the Parliament hath procured his Majesties direction the condition is performed but if that be not done the Forces notwithstanding may be received and imployed in the present service and ●o all those inconveniencies may be prevented which are feared But if nothing that we can do can give satisfaction but to deliver up the Sword render all the Garrisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament which we are bound by Oath to

preserve and keep for His Majesty before we do receive His direction therein We doubt not but we shall be acquit herein before God and men if we insist upon the refusall of that which we cannot do without the violation of our Oath to God and the King To sum me up in briefe those particulars wherein we are not satisfyed by any of your Papers nor by any thing which was delivered in the Conference First you have shewed us no direction from his Majesty to deliver the Sword c. which you say you have not procured Secondly you have not offered assurance to the Papists of this Kingdome who have adhered to his Majesties government since the 22. of October 1641. for their estates which is confessed by you Thirdly you have not undertaken that the Covenant shall not be pressed nor that the Book of Common-prayer shall not be suppressed Fourthly you have given no assurance either for the continuance of the Judger and Officers of the Civill List or the Officers of the Martiall in their respective imployments or the Cleargy in their respective Rights and incumbencies Fiftly you have given us no satisfaction in that great and main Objection touching the present Parliament which would be dissolved if that we should deliver the Sword in manner as is desired The Papers do cleere none of these particulars and nothing was delivered positively in the Conference which doth any wayes enlarge the former Papers We know that in matters of so high and great concernment you will go to the utmost Limits of your instructions and that in these things which seem doubtfull to us you will if any expedient can be found for the continuing the Treaty represent them to those who employed you in the best manner you can for Our satisfaction according to the promise made by you in your last Paper for which we doe returne you thankes in the behalfe of all His Majesties Protestant Subjects and those who have faithfully adhered to them And for that full satisfaction cannot be given to us without your further Application to the Parliament for enlarging your powers We being resolved to leave no meanes unattempted that may conduce to the preservation of his Majesties Protestant Subjects in this Kingdome and the Rights of the Crowne of England and to the end the Forces brought hither by you may be employed to those good ends whilest His Majesties pleasure by us and that of the Parliament by you is sought do offer these following Propositions First that the Officers and Souldiers sent hither by the Parliament of England be put into one or more convenient Garrisons and be commanded by their Respective Officers who are to receive Orders from Us and the Governours of the places where they shall be Garison'd and to be subject to the Lawes Martiall now in force in this Kingdome Secondly We desire towards the keeping of the Army now under our Command for six weekes three thousand pounds wherof two parts in money and a third part in victualls Thirdly That there be an ingagement from you to us on the behalfe of the Parliament that the Officers and Souldiers which are to be Garrisoned as in the first Proposition is mentioned shall do no Act prejudiciall to the present Government here And that in case we shall not at or before the expiration of the said six weeks agree that they shall remove from those places out of our quarters at such time as we shall direct Fourthly We shall engage Our selfe unto you that the said Officers and Souldiers shall quietly and peaceably be permitted by Us to remove with their Armes Provisions and other things belonging unto them to Shipboard or to such other places out of Our quarters as you Sir Robert Meredith Sir Thomas Wharton Sir Robert King and Sir John Clotworthy Knights and Richard Salwey Esquire or any three of you shall direct And to these Our Propositions We desire your speedy Answer ORMONDE Dublin 22. Novemb. 1646. HAving received your Lordships papers of the 21. of November and in them your returne to what was first delivered in-conference and afterwards for your Lordships satisfaction put in writing and signed by us And whereas in those papers your Lordship desires a coppy of the Instruction whereby power is given us to agree for Pensions to the value of two thousand pounds per annum We have the light fit that nothing may be wanting on our parts herewith to deliver you a Coppy of the said Instruction And however upon perusall of your Lordships paper of the 21. of November we find little cause to beleeve satisfaction will be received by your Lordship as hath been andeavoured to be given by Us. Yet foras●●●●eh at your third paper of the 19. of November d●●d express that when you should receive in writing signed by us what war delivered in Conference to your Lordship you would then declare unto us whether or no you would rest satlsfied therewith or upon the whole matter insist upon your refusall we desire your Lordship speedily to give us your positive answer accordingly And withall we hold it fit to declare that as we conceive the grounds of satisfaction offered by us doe remaine unanswered by you Lordship and particularly touching the Kings consent and direction which you call maine and fundamentall we having made it appeare that your Lordships Overture to the Parliament was to put all your Forces and Garrisons under their sole Command the King unconsulted with at all therein so we no wayes thinke fit though our Instructions should therein anthorize us to accept of the Propositions mentioned in the latter end of your papers as an expedient to continue any longer It yet your Lordship continue to refuse what we have offered we can onely give account thereof to those that imployed us and must leave it to the world to judge whether those Exceptions taken and insisted on by your Lordship be consonant to those grounds and principles held forth in your Overture made to the Parliament by which they were induced to send Succours hither or whether all the particulars so farre insisted on by your Lordship that it app●●ar●s not to us you will recede from any one thereof be of equall concernment to that hazard yea according to your Lordships owne representation that Certainty of losse not of a Kingdome only but of Thousands of Protestants and together with them the Protestant Relig●on also All which by the great care and pious endeavours of the Parliament of England might have been through the blessing of God prevented if what we have oftered and doe yet offer in their names he not by your Lordship refused Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy R. Salwey A Copie of the Instruction mentioned in the former Paper YOu or any Three of you have also hereby power given you to agree for such allowances to be paid to others by constans Pension during the Warre of Ireland for the better and more fir me carrying on of this Worke as shall not exceed in the whole the su●●me of Two Thousand Pounds per-annum to all other persons beside the Two Thousand pounds per annum to the Lord of Ormonde And those pensions to continue till they can receive the like benefit by their owne Estates Signed as the rest of the Instructions Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe 22. Novemb. 1646. WHereas by your paper of the 22. of Nov. 1646. You affirme that you made it appeare that our Overture to the Parliament was to put our Forces Garrisons under their sole Command the King not consulted withal therin we doe positively affirme that you neither have nor can make it appear that we made Overture to the Parliament to put all our Forces and Garrisons under their sole Command the King unconsulted for whatsoever hath been offered by us unto the Parliament by our Prop sitions and Instructions We are constant thereunto and still ready to performe ORMONDE 22. Novemb. 1646. HAving received your Lordships paper of the 22. of November which we conceive needs no reply we desire to know whether your Lordships will returne any further answer to our first paper of this dayes date Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy Rich. Salwey 22. November 1646. VVEE may not returne other Answer then Wee have done in Our former papers untill Wee have Consulted His Majesty and received His Direction therein ORMONDE 22. Novemb. 1646. VVE having heard nothing from you since We sent Our last paper We desire to know whether We shall understand this Treaty to be at an end for the present that if neither Our Propositions sent by Us to the Parliament of England nor the Propositions Wee sent unto you for the stay of your men be assented unto in manner as is Propounded We may consider what further course to take for the preservation of His Majesties Subjects and the Rights of the Crowne ORMONDE 22. Novemb. 1646. IN Answer to your Lordships paper of the 23. of November Wee returne That Wee continue assured there is no other way according to the representation made by your Lordship to the Parliament of preserving the Protestants of the Kingdome of Ireland nor of the Rights thereof relating to the Kingdome of England but by accepting the the Overtures made by us to your Lordship according to Our Papers delivered in Your Lordship insisting upon a positive refusall thereof we understand the Treaty to be at an end And as for the offers lately made by your Lordship to us we refer our selves to our Answer already given thereunto and can in no wise accept of the same Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clotworthy Rich. Salwey FINIS