for an University of Learning there was none erected till that time though it be not unlikely there might be then some that taught Philosophy Logick and other Arts in divers Monasteries the Monks having little else to do but to study After some Colledges were built to that purpose it was not long before many more were added to them by the Devotion of Princes and Bishops and other wealthy men and the Discipline therein was confirmed by the Popes that then were and abundance of Scholars sent thither by their friends to study as to a place from whence the way was open and easie to preferment both in Church and Commonwealth The profit the Church of Rome expected from them and in effect received was the maintenance of the Pope's Doctrine and of his Authority over Kings and their Subjects by School Divines who striving to make good many points of Faith incomprehensible and calling in the Philosophy of Aristotle to their assistance wrote great Books of School Divinity which no man else nor they themselves were able to understand as any man may conceive that shall consider the writing of Peter Lombard or Scotus or of him that wrote Commentaries upon him or of Suarez or of any other School-Divines of later times which kind of Learning nevertheless hath been much admired by two sorts of men otherwise prudent enough The one of which sorts were those that were already Devoted and really affectionate to the Roman Church for they believed the Doctrine before but admired the Arguments because they understood them not and yet found the Conclusions to their mind The other sort were negligent men that had rather admire with others than take the pains to examine so that all sorts of people were fully resolved that both the Doctrine was true and the Pope's Authority no more then that was due to him I see that a Christian King or State how well soever provided he be of Money and Arms where the Church of Rome hath such authority will have but a hard match of it for want of men for their Subjects will hardly be drawn into the Field and fight with courage against their Consciences A. It is true that great rebellions have been raised by Church-men in the Pope's quarrel against Kings as in England against King John and in France against King Henry the Fourth wherein the Kings had a more considerable part on their sides than the Pope had on his and shall always have so if they have Money for there are but few whose Consciences are so tender as to refuse Money when they want it but the great mischief done to Kings upon pretence of Religion is when the Pope gives power to one King to Invade another B. I wonder how King Henry the Eighth so utterly extinguished the Authority of the Pope in England and that without any Rebellion at home or any Invasion from abroad A. First The Priests Monks and Friars being in the height of their Power were now for the most part grown insolent and licentious and thereby the force of their Arguments was now taken away by the scandal of their lives which the Gentry and men of good education easily perceived and the Parliament consisting of such persons were therefore willing to take away their Power and generally the Common people which for a long time had been in love with Parliaments were not displeased therewith Secondly The Doctrine of Luther beginning a little before was now by a great many men of the greatest Judgments so well received as that there was no hope to restore the Pope to his Power by Rebellion Thirdly The Revenue of the Abbies and all other Religious Houses falling hereby into the Kings hands and by him being disposed of to the most eminent Gentlemen in every County could not but make them do their best to confirm themselves in the possession of them Fourthly King Henry was of a nature quick and severe in the Punishing of such as should be the first to oppose his designs Lastly As to Invasion from abroad if the Pope had given the Kingdom to another Prince it had been in vain for England is another manner of Kingdom than Navarre besides the French and Spanish Forces were imployed at that time one against another and though they had been at leasure they would have found perhaps no better success than the Spaniard found afterwards in 1588. Nevertheless notwithstanding the Insolence Avarice and Hypocrisie of the then Clergy and nothwithstanding the Doctrine of Luther if the Pope had not provoked the King by endeavouring to cross his Marriage with his second Wife his Authority might have remained in England till there had risen some other quarrel B. Did not the Bishops that then were and had taken an Oath wherein was among other things that they should defend and maintain the Regal Rights of St. Peter the words are Regalia Sancti Petri which nevertheless some have said are Regulas Sancti Petri that is to say St. Peter's Rules or Doctrine and that the Clergy afterwards did read it being perhaps written in Short-hand by a mistake to the Pope's advantage Regalia Did not I say the Bishops oppose that Act of Parliament against the Pope's against the taking of the Oath of Supremacy A. No I do not find the Bishops did many of them oppose the King for having no power without him it had been great imprudence to provoke his Anger there was besides a Controversiy in those times between the Pope and the Bishops most of which did maintain that they exercised their Jurisdiction Episcopal in the Right of God as immediately as the Pope himself did exercise the same over the whole Church and because they saw that by this Act of the King in Parliament they were to hold their power no more of the Pope and never thought of holding it of the King they were perhaps better content to let the Act of Parliament pass in the reign of King Edward the Sixth the Doctrine of Luther had taken such great root in England that they threw out a great many of the Pope's new Articles of Faith with Queen Mary succeeding him restored again together with all that had been abolished by King Henry the Eighth saving that which could not be restored the Religious Houses and the Bishops and Clergy of King Henry were partly burnt for Hereticks partly fled and partly recanted and they that fled betook themselves to those places beyond Sea where the Reformed Religion was either protected or not prosecuted who after the decease of Queen Mary returned again to favour and preferment under Queen Elizabeth that restored the Religion of her Brother King Edward and so it had continued to this day excepting the interruption made in this late Rebellion of the Presbyterians and other Democratical men But thus the Romish Religion were now cast out by the Law yet there were abundance of people and many of them of the Nobility that still retained the Religion of their Ancestors
prospered When these three came through London it was a kind of Triumph the People flocking together to behold them and receiving them with such Acclamations and almost Adoration as if they had been let down from Heaven Insomuch that the Parliament was now sufficiently assured of a great and tumultuous Party whensoever they should have occasion to use it on confidence whereof they proceeded to their next Plot which was to deprive the King of such Ministers as by their Courage Wisdom and Authority they thought most able to prevent or oppose their further Designs against the King And first the House of Commons resolv'd to impeach the Earl of Strafford Lord Lieutenant of Ireland of High-Treason B. What was that Earl of Strafford before he had that Place And how had he offended the Parliament or given them cause to think he would be their Enemy For I have heard that in former Parliaments he had been as Parliamentary as any other A. His Name was Sir Thomas Wentworth a Gentleman both for Birth and Estate very considerable in his own Country which was Yorkshire but more considerable for his Judgement in the Publick Affairs not only of that Country but generally of the Kingdom either as Burgess for some Borrough or Knight of the Shire For his Principles of Politicks they were the same that were generally proceeded upon by all Men else that are thought sit to be chosen for the Parliament which are commonly these To take for the Rule of Justice and the Government the Judgements and Acts of former Parliaments which are commonly called Precedents to endeavour to keep the People from being subject to Extra-Parliamentary Taxes of money and from being with Parliamentary Taxes too much oppressed to preserve to the People their Liberty of Body from their Arbitrary Power of the King out of Paâ—liament to seek Redress of Grievances B. What Grievances A. The Grievances were commonly such as these The King 's too much Liberality to some Favourite the too much Power of any Minister of State of Officer the Mâ—sdemeanours of Judges Civil or Spiritual but especially all Unparliamentary raising of Money upon the Subjects And commonly of late till such Grievances be redressed they refuse or at least make great difficulty to furnish the King with Money necessary for the most urgent occasions of the Commonwealth B. How then can a King discharge his Duty as he ought to do or the Subject know which of his Masters he is to obey For here are manifestly two Powers which when they chance to differ cannot both be obeyed A. 'T is true but they have not often differed so much to the danger of the Commonwealth as they have done in this Parliament of 1640. In all the Parliaments of the late King Charles before the year 1640. my Lord of Strafford did appear in opposition to the King's Demands as much as any man and was for that Cause very much esteemed and cryed up by the People as a good Patriot and one that couragiously stood up in defence of their Liberties and for the same cause was so much the more hated when afterwards he endeavoured to maintain the Royal and Just Authority of his Majesty B. How came he to change his mind so much as it seems he did A. After the Dissolution of that Parliament holden in the year 1627 and 1628 the King finding no Money to be gotten from Parliaments which he was not to buy with the Bloud of such Servants and Ministers as he loved best abstained a long time from calling any more and had abstained longer if the Rebellion of the Scotch had not forced him to it During that Parliament the King made Sir Thomas Wentworth a Baron recommended to him for his great ability which was generally taken notice of by the disservice he had done the King in former Parliaments but which might be useful also for him in the times that came on and not long after that he made him of the Council and again Lieutenant of Ireland which place he discharged with great satisfaction and benefit to his Majesty and continued in that Office till by the Envy and Violence of the Lords and Commons of that unlucky Parliament of 1640. he died in which year he was made General of the King's Forces against the Scotch that then entred into England and the year before Earl of Strafford The Pacification being made and the Forces on both sides Disbanded and the Parliament at Westminster now Sitting it was not long before the House of Commons accused him to the House of Lords of High-Treason B. There was no great probability of his being a Traitor to the King from whose favour he had received his greatness and from whose protection he was to expect his safety What was the Treason they laid to his Charge A. Many Articles were drawn up against him but the sum of them was contained in these two First That he had traiterously endeavour'd to subvert the Fundamental Laws and Government of the Realm and instead thereof to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government against Law Secondly That he had laboured to subvert the Rights of Parliaments and the ancient course of Parliamentary Proceedings B. Was this done by him without the knowledge of the King A. No. B. Why then if it were Treason did not the King himself call him in question by his Attorney What had the House of Commons to do without his Command to accuse him to the House of Lords They might have complain'd to the King if he had not known it before I understand not this Law A. Nor I. B. Had this been by any former Statutes made Treason A. Not that I ever heard of nor do I understand that any thing can be Treason against the King that the King hearing and knowing does not think Treason But it was a piece of that Parliaments Artifice to put the word Traiterously to any Article exhibited against a Man whose life they meant to take away B. Was there no particular Instance of action or words out of which they argued that endeavour of his to subvert the fundamental Laws of Parliament whereof they accused him A. Yes they said he gave the King counsel to reduce the Parliament to their duty by the Irish Army which not long before my Lord of Strafford himself had caused to be levied there for the King's service but it was never proved against him that he advised the King to make use of it against the Parliament B. What are those Laws that are called fundamental for I understand not how one Law can be more fundamental than another except only that Law of Nature that binds us all to obey him whosoever he be whom lawfully and for our own safety we have promised to obey nor any other fundamental Law to a King but Salus Populi The safety and well being of the people A. This Parliament in the use of these words when they accused any Man never regarded the signification of
on but also by the Earl of Strafford himself he would have pardoned him if that could have preserved him from the Tumult raised and countenanced by the Parliament it self for the terrifying of those they thought might favour him and yet the King himself did not stick to confess afterwards that he had done amiss in that he did not rescue him B. 'T was an Argument of a good disposition in the King but I never read that Augustus Caesar acknowledged that he did a fault in abandoning Cicero to the fury of his Enemy Antonius perhaps because Cicero having been of the contrary Faction to his Father had done Augustus no service at all not out of favour to him but only out of enmity to Antonius and of love to the Senate that is indeed out of love to himself that swayed the Senate as it is very likely the Earl of Strafford came over to the King's Party for his own ends having been so much against the King in former Parliaments A. We cannot safely judge of men's intentions but I have observed often that such as seek preferment by their Stubbornness have missed of their aim and on the other side that those Princes that with preferment are forced to buy the Obedience of their Subjects are already or must be soon after in a very weak condition for in a Market where Honour is to be bought with Stubbornness there will be a great many as able to buy as my Lord Strafford was B. You have read that when Hercules fighting with the Hydra had cut off any one of his many Heads there still arose two other Heads in it's place and yet at last he cut them off all A. The story is told false for Hercules at first did not cut off those Heads but bought them off and afterwards when he saw that did him no good then he cut them off and got the Victory B. What did they next A. After the first Impeachment of the Earl of Strafford the House of Commons upon December 18. accused the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury also of High Treason that is of a Design to introduce Arbitrary Government c. For which he was February 18. sent to the Tower but his Trial and Execution were deferred a long time till January 10. 1643. for the entertainment of the Scots that were come into England to aid the Parliament B. Why did the Scots think there were so much danger in the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury he was not a Man of War nor a Man able to bring an Army into the Field but he was perhaps a very great Politician A. That did not appear by any remarkable events of his Councils I never heard but he was a very honest man for his Morals and a very zealous promoter of the Church Government by Bishops and that he desired to have the Service of God performed and the House of God adorned as suitably as was possible to the Honour we ought to do to the Divine Majesty But to bring as he did into the State his Former Controversies I mean his squablings in the University about Free Will and his standing upon Punctilio's concerning the Service-Book and its Rubricks was not in my opinion an Argument of his sufficiency in Affairs of State About the same time they passed an Act which the King consented to for a Triennial Parliament wherein was Enacted That after the present Parliament there should be a Parliament call'd by the King within the space of three years and so from three years to three years to meet at Westminster upon a certain day named in the Act. B. But what if the King did not call it finding it perhaps inconvenient or hurtful to the Safety or Peace of his People which God hath put into his Charge for I do not well comprehend how any Soveraign can well keep a People in order when his hands are-tied or when he hath any other Obligation upon him than the benefit of those he Governs And at this time for any thing you told me they acknowledged the King for their Soveraign A. I know not but such was the Act And it was farther Enacted That if the King did it not by his own Command then the Lord Chancellour or the Lord Keeper for the time being should send out the Writs of Summons And if the Chancellour refused then the Sheriffs of the several Counties of themselves at the next County Courts before the day set down for the Parliament's meeting should proceed to Election of the Members for the said Parliament B. But what if the Sheriffs refused A. I think they were to be sworn to it but for that and other particulars I refer you to the Act. B. To whom should they be sworn when there is no Parliament A. No doubt but to the King whether there be a Parliament sitting or no. B. Then the King may Release them of their Oath A. Besides They obtained of the King the putting down the Star Chamber and the High Commission Courts B. Besides If the King upon the refusal should fall upon them in an Anger Who shall the Parliament not sitting Protect either the Chancellor or the Sheriffs in their Disobedience A. I pray you do not ask me any Reason of such things I understand no better than you I tell you only an Act passed to that purpose and was Signed by the King in the middle of February a little before the Arch-Bishop was sent to the Tower Besides this Bill the two Houses of Parliament agreed upon another wherein it was Enacted That the present Parliament would continue till both the Houses did consent to the Dissolution of it which Bill also the King Signed the same day he Signed the Warrant for the Execution of the Earl of Strafford B. What a great Progress made the Parliament towards the ends of the most seditious Members of both Houses in so little time They sat down in November and now it was May in this space of time which is but half a year they won from the King the Adherence which was due to him from his People they drove his faithfullest Servants from him beheaded the Earl of Strafford Imprisoned the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury obtained a Triennial Parliament after their own Dissolution and a continuance of their own sitting as long as they listed which last amounted to a total extinction of the King 's right in case that such a Grant were valid which I think is not unless the soveraignty it self be in plain terms renounced which it was not but what Money by way of subsidue or otherwise did they grant the King in recompence of all these his large concessions A. None at all but often promised they would make him the most glorious King that ever was in England which were words that passed well enough for welmeaning with the common People B. But the Parliament was contented now for I cannot imagin what they should desire more from the King than he had now granted them A. Yes
and that all persons cited by either House of Parliament may appear and abide the Censure of Parliament XIV That the General Pardon offered by his Majesty be granted with such Exceptions as shall be advised by both Houses of Parliament B. What a spightful Article is this All the rest proceeded from Ambition which many times well-natur'd men are subject to but this proceeded from an inhumane and devilish cruelly A. XV. That the Forts and Castles be put under the Command of such Persons as with the Approbation of the Parliament the King shall appoint XVI That the extraordinary Guards about the King be discharged and for the future none raised but according to the Law in case of actual Rebellion or Invasion B. Methinks these very Propositions sent to the King are an actual Rebellion A. XVII That his Majesty enter into a more strict Alliance with the United Provinces and other Neighbour Protestant Princes and States XVIII That his Majesty be pleased by Act of Parliament to clear the Lord Kimbolton and the Five Members of the House of Commons in such manner as that future Parliaments may be secur'd from the consequence of evil Precedent XIX That his Majesty be pleased to pass a Bill for restraining Peers made hereafter from sitting or voting in Parliament unless they be admitted with consent of both Houses of Parliament These Propositions granted they promise to apply themselves to regulate his Majesties Revenue to his best advantage and to settle it to the support of his Royal Dignity in Honour and Plenty and also to put the Town of Hull into such hands as his Majesty shall appoint with consent of Parliament B. Is not that to put it into such hands as His Majesty shall appoint by the consent of the Petitioners which is no more than to keep it in their hands as it is Did they want or think the King wanted common sense so as not to perceive that their promise herein was worth nothing A. After the sending of these Propositions to the King and His Majesties refusal to grant them they began on both sides to prepare for War the King raising a Guard for his Person in York-shire and the Parliament thereupon having Voted That the King intended to make War upon his Parliament gave Order for the Mustering and Exercising the People in Arms and published Propositions to Invite and Encourage them to bring in either ready Money or â—late or to promise under their hands to maintain certain numbers of Horse Horsemen and Arms for the Defence of the King and Parliament meaning by King as they had formerly declar'd not his Person but his Laws promising to repay their Money with Interest of Eight Pound in the Hundred and the Value of their Plate with Twelve Pence the Ounce for the Fashion On the other side the King came to Nottingham and there did set up his Standard Royal and sent out Commissioners of Array to call those to him which by the ancient Laws of England were bound to serve in the Wars Upon this occasion there passed divers Declarations between the King and Parliament concerning the Legality of this Array which are too long to tell you at this time B. Nor do I desire to hear any Mooting about this Question for I think that general Law of Salus Populi and the Right of defending himself against those that had taken from him the Sovereign Power are sufficient to make Legal whatsoever he should do in order to the recovery of his Kingdom or the punishing of the Rebels A. In the mean time the Parliament raised an Army and made the Earl of Essex General thereof by which Act they declar'd what they meant formerly when they Petition'd the King for a Guard to be Commanded by the said Earl of Essex And now the King sends out his Proclamations forbidding Obedience to the Orders of the Parliament concerning the Militia and the Parliament send out Orders against the Executions of the Commissions of Array hitherto though it were a War before yet there was no Blood shed they shot at one another nothing but Paper B. I understand now how the Parliament destroy'd the Peace of the Kingdom and how easily by the help of Seditious Presbyterian Ministers and of ambitious ignorant Orators they reduced the Government into Anarchy but I believe it will be a harder task for them to bring in Peace again and settle the Government either in themselves or in any other Governor or form of Government for granting that they obtain the Victory in this War they must be beholding for it to the Valor good Conduct or Felicity of those to whom they give the Command of their Armies especially to the General whose good success will without doubt bring with it the love and admiration of the Soldiers so that it will be in his power either to take the Government upon himself or to place it where himself thinks good In which Case if he take it not to himself he will be thought a Fool and if he do he shall be sure to have the Envy of his subordinate Commanders who will look for a share either in the present Government or in the Succession to it for they will say Has he obtain'd this Power by his own without our Danger Valor and Council And must we be his Slaves whom we have thus rais'd Or is not there as much Justice on our side against him as was on his side against the King A. They will and did insomuch that the reason why Cromwel after he had gotten into his own hands the absolute Power of England Scotland and Ireland by the Name of Protector did never dare to take upon him the Title of King nor was ever able to settle it upon his Children his Officers would not suffer it as pretending after his death to succeed him nor would the Army consent to it because he had ever declared to them against the Government of a Single Person B. But to return to the King What Means had he to pay What Provision had he to Arm nay Means to Levy an Army able to resist the Army of the Parliament maintained by the great Purse of the City of London and Contributions of almost all the Towns Corporate in England and furnished with Arms as fully as they could require A. 'T is true the King had great disadvantages and yet by little and little he got a considerable Army with which he so prospered as to grow stronger every day and the Parliament weaker till they had gotten the Scots with an Army of 21000 Men to come into England to their assistance but to enter into the particular Narrative of what was done in the War I have not now time B. Well then we will talk of that at next meeting B. VVE left at the Preparations on both sides for War which when I considered by my self I was mightily puzled to find out what possibility there was for the King to equal the Parliament in
would proceed to Judgment Then the King answering that he had no more to say the President began a long Speech in justification of the Parliaments Proceedings producing the Examples of many Kings kill'd or depos'd by wicked Parliaments Ancient and Modern in England Scotland and other parts of the World All which he endeavoured to justifie from this only Principle that the People have the Supreme Power and the Parliament is the People This Speech ended the Sentence of Death was read and the same upon Tuesday after January the 30. executed at the Gate of his own Palace of White-Hall He that can delight in reading how villanously he was used by the Souldiers between the Sentence and Execution may go to the Chronicle it self in which he shall see what courage patience wisdom and goodness was in this Prince whom in their Charge the Members of that wicked Parliament styled Traytor Tyrant and Murderer The King being dead the same day they made an Act of Parliament That whereas several pretences might be made to the Crown c. it is Enacted by this present Parliament and Authority of the same that no Person shall presume to declare proclaim or publish or any way promote Charles Stuart Son of Charles late King of England commonly called Prince of Wales or any other Person to be King of England and Ireland c. B. Seeing the King was dead and his Successors barr'd by what declar'd Authority was the Peace maintain'd A. They had in their anger against the Lords formerly declar'd the Supreme Power of the Nation to be in the House of Commons and now on February the fifth they Vote the House of Lords to be useless and dangerous And thus the Kingdom was turn'd into a Democracy or rather an Oligarchy for presently they made an Act That none of those Members who were secluded for opposing the Vote of Non-Addresses should ever be re-admitted And these were commonly called the Secluded Members and the rest were by some styled a Parliament and by others a Rump I think you need not now have a Catalogue either of the Vices or of the Crimes or of the Pollies of the greatest part of them that composed the Long-Parliament than which greater cannot be in the world What greater Vices than Irreligion Hypocrisie Avarice and Cruelty which have appeared so eminently in the actions of Presbyterian Members and Presbyterian Ministers What greater Crimes than Blasphemy and killing Gods Anointed which was done by the hands of the Indipendents but by the folly and first Treason of the Presbyterians who betrayed and sold him to his Murderers Nor was it a little folly in the Lords not to see that by the taking away of the Kings Power they lost withall their own Priviledges or to think themselves either for number or judgment any way a considerable assistance to the House of Commons And for those men who had skill in the Laws it was no great sign of understanding not to perceive that the Laws of the Land were made by the King to oblige his Subjects to Peace and Justice and not to oblige himself that made them Lastly and generally all men are Fools which pull down any thing which does them good before they have set up something better in its place He that would set up Democracy with an Army should have an Army to maintain it but these men did it when those men had the Army that were resolv'd to pull it down To these follies I might add the follies of those five men which out of their reading of Tully Seneca and other Antimonarchicks think themselves sufficient Politicks and shew their discontents when they are not called to the management of the State and turn from one side to the other upon every neglect they fancy from the King or his Enemies A. YOU have seen the Rump in possession as they believ'd of the Supreme Power over the two Nations of England and Ireland and the Army their Servant though Cromwel thought otherwise serving them diligently for the advancement of his own purpose I am now therefore to shew you their proceedings B. Tell me first how this kind of Government under the Rump or Relick of a House of Commons is to be call'd A. 'T is doubtless an Oligarchy for the Supreme Authority must needs be in one man or in more if in one it is Monarchy the Rump therefore was no Monarchy if the Authority were in more than one it was in all or in sewer than all when in all it is Democraty for every man may enter into the Assembly which makes the Soveraign Court which they could not do here It is therefore manifest the Authority was in a few and consequently the State was an Oligarchy B. Is it not impossible for a people to be well Governed that are to obey more Masters than one A. Both the Rump and all other Soveraign Assemblies if they have but one Voice though they be many Men yet are they but one Person for contrary Commands cannot consist in one and the same Voice which is the Voice of the greatest part and therefore they might govern well enough if they had honesty and wit enough The first Act of the Rump was the Exclusion of those Members of the House of Commons which had been formerly kept out by Violence for the precuring of an Ordinance for the King's Tryal for these men had appear'd against the Ordinance of Non-Addresses and therefore to be excluded because they might else be an Impediment to their future Designs B. Was it not rather because in the Authority of few they thought the fewer the better both in regard of their shares and also of a nearer approach in every one of them to the Dignity of a King A. Yes certainly what was their Principal End B. When these were put out why did not the Counties and Burroughs chuse others in their Places A. They could not do that without Order from the House After this they constituted a Council of forty persons which they termed a Council of State whose Office was to execute what the Rump should command B. When there was neither King nor House of Lords they could not call themselves a Parliament for a Parliament is a meeting of the King Lords and Commons to confer together about the Businesses of the Common-Wealth With whom did the Rump confer A. Men may give to their Assembly what Name they please what signification soever such Name might formerly have had and the Rump took the Name of Parliament as most suitable to their purpose and such a Name as being Venerable among the people for many hundred years had countenanced and sweetened Subsidies and other Levies of Money otherwise very unpleasant to the Subject They took also afterwards another name which was Custodes Libertatis Angliae which Title they used only in their Writs issuing out of the Courts of Justice B. I do not see how a Subject that is tyed to the Laws can have more
Tax upon the people of ninety thousand pound a Month for the maintenance of the Army B Was it not one of their Quarrels with the King that he had levied Money without the consent of the people in Parliament A. You may see by this what reason the Rump had to call it self a Parliament for the Taxes imposed by Parliament were always understood to be by the peoples consent and consequently legal To appease the Scots they sent Messengers with flattering Letters to keep them from ingaging for the present King but in vain for they would hear nothing from a House of Commons as they call'd it at Westminster without a King and Lords But they sent Commissioners to the King to let him know what they were doing for him for they were resolv'd to raise an Army of seventeen thousand Foot and six thousand Horse for themselves To relieve Ireland the Rump had resolv'd to send eleven Regiments thither out of the Army here in England This happened well for Cromwel for the Levelling Soldiers which were in every Regiment many and in some the major part finding that instead of dividing the Land at home they were to venture their Lives in Ireland flatly denied to go and one Regiment having cashier'd their Colonel about Salisbury was marching to joyn with three Regiments more of the same resolution but both the General and Cromwel falling upon them at Burford utterly defeated them and soon after reduced the whole Army to their obedience And thus another of the Impediments to Cromwel's Advancement was soon remov'd Thus done they came to Oxford and thence to London and at Oxford both the General and Cromwel were made Doctors of the Civil Law and at London â—easted and presented by the City B. Were they not first made Masters then Dâ—ctors A. They had made themselves Masters already both of the Laws and Parliament The Army being now obedient the Rump sent over those eleven Regiments into Ireland under the Command of Doctor Cromwel Entituled Governour of that Kingdom the Lord Fairfax being still General of all the Forces both here and there The Marquess now Duke of Ormond was the Kings Lieutenant of Ireland and the Rebels had made a Confederacy among themselves and those Confederates had made a kind of League with the Lieutenant wherein they agreed upon liberty given them in the exercise of their Religion to be faithful to and assist the King To these also were joyned some Forces raised by the Earls of Castlehaven and Clanriccard and my Lord Inchequin so that they were the greatest United Strength in the Island but there were among them a great many other Papists that would by no means subject themselves to Protestants and these were called the Nuncio's Party as the other were called the Confederate Party These Parties not agreeing and the Confederate Party having broken their Articles the Lord Lieutenant seeing them ready to besiege him in Dublin and not able to defend it to preserve the place for the Protestants surrenders it to the Parliament of England and came over to the King at this time when he was carried from place to place by the Army From England he went over to the Prince now King residing then at Paris But the Confederates affrighted with the news that the Rump was sending over an Army thither desir'd the Prince by Letters to send back my Lord of Ormond ingaging themselves to submit absolutely to the Kings Authority and to obey my Lord of Ormond as his Lieutenant And thereupon he was sent back This was about a year before the going over of Cromwel in which time by the Dissentions in Ireland between the Confederate Party and the Nuncio's Party and discontents about Command this otherwise sufficient Power effected nothing and was at last defeated August the second by a Salley out of Dublin which they were besieging Within a few days after arriv'd Cromwel who with extraordinary diligence and horrid Executions in less than a Twelve-month that he staid there subdued in a manner the whole Nation having kill'd or exterminated a great part of them and leaving his Son-in-law Ireton to subdue the rest But Ireton died there before the business was quite done of the Plague This was one step more towards Cromwel's Exaltation to the Throne B. What a miserable condition was Ireland reduced to by the Learning of the Roman as well as England was by the Learning of the Presbyterian Clergy A. In the latter end of the preceeding year the King was come from Paris to the Hague and shortly after came thither from the Rump their Agent Dorisâ—aus Doctor of the Civil Law who had been imployed in the drawing of the Charge against the late King But the first night he came as he was at Supper a Company of Cavaliers near a dozen entred his Chamber kill'd him and got away Not long after also their Agent at Madrid one Ascham that had written in defence of his Masters was kill'd in the same manner About this tire came out two Books one written by Salmasius a Presbyterian against the Murder of the King another written by Milton an Independent in England in Answer to it B. I have seen them both they are very good Laâ—iâ—â— both and hardly to be judged which is better and both very ill reasoning and hardly to be judged which is worst like two Declamations Pro and Con for Exercise only in a Rhetorick School by one and the same man So like is a Presbyterian to an Independent A. In this year the Rump did not much at home save that in the beginning they made England a Free State by an Act that runs thus Be it Enacted and Declared by this present Parliament and by the Authority thereof That the people of England and all the Dominions and Territories thereunto belonging are and shall be and are hereby constituted made and declared a Common-wealth and Free State c. B. What did they mean by a Free State and Common-wealth were the people no longer to be subject to Laws They could not mean that for the Parliament meant to Govern them by their own Laws and punish such as broke them Did they mean that England should not be subject to any foreign Kingdom or Common-wealth That needed not be Enacted seeing there was no King nor People pretended to be their Masters What did they mean then A. They meant that neither this King nor any King nor any single person but only that they themselves would be the Peoples Masters and would have set it down in those plain words if the people could have been cozen'd with words intelligible as easily as with words not intelligible After this they gave one another Money and Estates out of the Lands and Goods of the Loyal Party They Enacted also an Engagement to be taken by every man in these words Tou shall promise to be true and faithful to the Common-wealth of England as it is now established without King or House of Lords They
he meant to sweep the Sea of all English Shipping After this in February â—he Dutch with Van Tromp were encountred by the English under Blake and Dean near Ports-mouth and had the worst And these were all the Encounters between them this year in the narrow Seas they fought also once at Leghorn where the Dutch had the better B. I see no great odds yet on either side if there were any the English had it A. Nor did either of them e're the more incline to Peace for the Hollanders after they had sent Ambassadors into Denmark Sweeden Poland and the Hans Towns whence Tar and Cordage are usually had to signifie the Declaration of the War and to get them to their Party re-called their Ambassadors from England and the Rump without delay gave their parting audience without abating a Syllable of their former severe Propositions and presently to maintain the War for the next year laid a Tax upon the People of 120000 l. per Mâ—nsem B. What was done in the mean time at home A. Cromwel was now quarrelling the last and greatest Obstacle to his Design the Rump and to that end there came out dayly from the Army Petitions Addresses Remonstrances and other such Papers some of them urging the Rump to dissolve themselves and make way for another Parliament to which the Rump unwilling to yield and not daring to refuse determin'd for the end of their sitting the 5th of November 1654. but Cromwel meant not to stay so long In the mean time the Army in Ireland was taking Submissions and granting Transportations of the Irish and condemning who they pleased in a High Court of Justice erected there for that purpose Among those that were executed was hang'd Sir Phelim Oneale who first began the Rebellion in Scotland the English built some Citadels for the bridling that stubborn Nation and thus ended the year 1652. B. Come we then to the year 1653. A. Cromwel wanted now but one step to the end of his Ambition and that was To set his Foot upon the Neck of this Long-Parliament which he did April the 23th of this present year 1653. a time very seasonable for though the Dutch were not master'd yet they were much weakned and what with Prizes from the Enemy and squeezing the Royal Party the Treasury was pretty full and the Tax of 120000 l. a Month began to come in all which was his own in right of the Army Therefore without any more ado attended by the Major Generals Lambert and Harrison some other Officers and as many Souldiers as he thought fit he went to the Parliament House and dissolv'd them turn'd them out and lock'd up the Doors and for this Action he was more applauded by the people than for any of his Victories in the War and the Parliament men as much scorn'd and derided B. Now that there was no Parliament who had the Supreme Power A. If by Power you mean the right to Govern no body had it if you mean the Supreme Strength it was clearly in Cromwel who was obeyed as General of all the Forces in England Scotland and Ireland B. Did he pretend that for Title A. No but presently after he intended a Title which was this That he was necessitated for the defence of the Cause for which at first the Parliament had taken up Arms that is to say Rebell'd to have recourse to extraordinary Actions You know the pretence of the Long-Parliament's Rebellion was Salus Populi the safety of the Nation against a dangerous Conspiracy of Papists and a malignant Party at home and that every man is bound as far as his Power extends to procure the safety of the whole Nation which none but the Army were able to do and the Parliament had hitherto neglected was it not then the Generals duty to do it had he not therefore right for that Law of Salus Populi is directed only to those that have Power enough to defend the People that is to them that have the Supreme Power B. Yes certainly he had as good a Title as the Long-Parliament but the Long-Parliament did represent the People and it seems to me that the Soveraign Power is essentially annexed to the Representative of the People A. Yes if he that makes a Representative that is in the present case the King do call them together to receive the Soveraign Power and he divest himself thereof otherwise not nor was ever the lower house of Parliament the Representative of the whole Nation but of the Commons only nor had that House the Power to oblige by their Acts or Ordinances any Lord or any Priest B. Did Cromwel come in upon the only Title of Salus Populi For this is a Title very few understand A. His way was to get the Supreme Power conferr'd upon him by Parliament therefore he call'd a Parliament and gave it the Supreme Power to the end that they should give it to him again was not this witty First therefore he published a Declaration of the Causes why he dissolv'd the Parliament the sum whereof was That instead of endeavouring to promote the good of Gods people they endeavour'd by a Bill then ready to pas to recruit the House and perpetuate their own Power Next he constituted a Council of State of his own Creatures to be the Supreme Autority of England but no longer than till the next Parliament should be call'd and met Thiâ—dly he summon'd 142 persons such as he himself or his trusty Officers made choice of the greatest part of whom were instructed what to do obscure persons and most of them Phanaticks though stil'd by Cromwel Men of approv'd fidelity and honâ—sty to these the Council of State surrender'd the Supreme Authority and not long after these men surrendred it to Cromwel July the fourth this Parliament met and chose for their Speaker one Mr. Rous and called themselves from that time forward The Parliament of England But Cromwel for the more surety constituted also a Council of State not of such petty Fellows as most of these were but of himself and of his principal Officers These did all the business both publick and private making Ordinances and giving Audience to Foreign Ambassadors But he had now more Enemâ—es than before Harrison who was the Head of the Fifth monarchy-men laying down his Commission did nothing but anâ—mate his Party against him for which afterward he was Imprisoned This little Parliament in the mean time were making of Acts so ridiculous and displeasing to the People that it was thought he chose them on purpose to bring all ruling Parliaments into contempt and Monarchy again into credit B. What Acts were these A. One of them was That all Marriages should be made by a Justice of Peace and the Banes asked three several days in the next Market None were forbidden to be Married by a Minister but without a Justice of Peace the Marriage was to be void so divers wary Couples to be sure of one another howsoever
this could not make them know themselves for they proceded to the debate of every Article of the Recognition B. They should have debated that before they had taken it A. But then they had never been suffered to sit Cromwel being informed of their stubborn proceedings and out of hope of any Supply from them dissolv'd them All that passed besides in this year was the Exercise of the High-Court of Justice upon some Royalists for Plots In the Year 1655. the English to the number of near 10000 landed in Hispaniola in hope of the plunder of the Gold and Silver whereof they thought there was great abundance in the Town of Santo Domingo but were well beaten by a few Spaniards and with the loss of near 1000 Men went off to Jamaica and possessed it This year also the Royal Party made another Attempt in the West and proclaimed there King Charles the Second but few joining with them and some falling off they were soon suppressed and many of the principal persons Executed B. In these many Insurrections the Royalists tho they meant well yet they did but dis-service to the King by their impatience What hope had they to prevail against so great an Army as the Protector had ready What cause was there to despair of seeing the King's business better done by the Dissention and Ambition of the great Commanders in that Army whereof many had the favour to be esteem'd among them as well as Cromwel himself A. That was somewhat incertain The Protector being frustrate of his hope of Money at Santo Domingo resolv'd to take from the Royalists the tenth part yearly of their Estates And to this end chiefly he divided England into eleven Major-General-ships with Commission to every Major-General to make a Roll of the Names of all suspected persons of the King's party and to receive the tenth part of their Estates within his Precinct As also to take caution from them not to act against the State and to reveal all Plots that should come to their knowledge and to make them engage the like for their Servants They had Commission also to forbid Horse-races and concourse of people and to receive and account for this Decimation B. By this the Usurper might easily inform himself of the value of all the Estates in England and of the Behaviour and Affection of every person of Quality which has hitherto been taken for very great Tyranny A. The year 1656 was a Parliament-year by the Instrument between the beginning of this year and the day of the Parliaments sitting these Major-Generals resided in several Provinces behaving themselves most Tyrannically Amongst other of their Tyrannies was the awing of Elections and making themselves and whom they pleas'd to be return'd Members for the Parliament which was also thought a part of Cromwel's Design in their Constitution for he had need of a giving Parliament having lately upon a Peace made with the French drawn upon himself a War with Spain This year it was that Captain Stainer set upon the Spanish Plate-fleet being 8 in number near Cadiz whereof he sunk two and took two there being in one of them two millions of pieces of 8 which amounts to 400000 l. sterling â— This year also it was that James Naylor appear'd at Bristol and would be taken for Jesus Christ he wore his Beard forked and his Hair compos'd to the likeness of that in the Volto Santo and being question'd would sometimes answer Thou sayest it He had also his Disciples that would go by his Horse-side to the mid-le in dirt Being sent for by the Parliament he was Sentenced to stand on the Pillory to have his Tongue bored through and to be marked in the Fore-head with the Letter B. for Blasphemy and to remain in Bridewell Lambert a great Favourite of the Army endeavour'd to save him partly because he had been his Soldier and partly to curry favour with the Sectaries of the Army for he was now no more in the Protector 's Favour but meditating how he might succeed him in his Power About two years before this there appear'd in Cromwel's time a Prophetess much fam'd for her Dreams and Visions and hearkened to by many whereof some were Eminent Officers but she and some of her Complices being imprison'd we heard no more of her B. I have heard of another one Lilly that Prophesied all the time of the Long-Parliament what did they to him A. His Prophesies were of another kind he was a Writer of Almanacks and a pretender to a pretended Art of Judicial Astrology a meer Cozener to get maintenance from a multitude of ignorant people and no doubt had been call'd in question if his Prophesies had been any ways disadvantageous to the Parliament B. I understand not how the Dreams and Prognostications of mad men for such I take to be all those that foretel future Contingencies can be of any great disadvantage to the Common-Wealth A. Yes yes know there is nothing that renders Humane Councils difficult but the incertainty of future time nor that so well directs men in their deliberations as the fore-sight of the sequels of their Actions Prophesie being many times the principal Cause of the Event foretold If upon some prediction the people should have been made to believe confidently That Oliver Cromwel and his Army should be upon a day to come utterly defeated would not every one have endeavour'd to assist and to deserve well of that Party should give him the defeat Upon this account it was that Fortune-tellers and Astrologers were so often banished out of Rome The last memorable thing of this Year was a Motion made by a Member of the House an Alderman of London That the Protector might be petitioned and advised by the House to leave the Title of Protector and take upon him that of King B. That was indeed a bold Motion and which would if prosperous have put an end to many mens Ambition and to the licentiousness of the whole Army I think the Motion was made on purpose to ruine both the Protector himself and his ambitious Officers A. It may be so In the year 1657 the first thing the Parliament did was the drawing up a Petition to the Protector to take upon him the Title of King As of other Parliaments so of this the greatest part had been kept out of the House by force or else themselves had forborn to sit and became guilty of setting up this King Oliver but those few that sat presented their Petition to the Protector April the 9th in the Banquetting-house at Whitehall Sir Thomas Widdrington the Speaker used the first Arguments and the Protector desired some time to seek God the Business being weighty The next day they sent a Committee to him to receive his Answer which Answer being not very clear they pressed him again for a Resolution to which he made answer in a long Speech that ended in a peremptory Refusal and so retaining still the Title of Protector he
BEHEMOTH OR AN EPITOME OF THE Civil Wars OF ENGLAND From 1640 to 1660. By THOMAS HOBS of Malmsbury LONDON Printed ANNO DOM. 1679 THE HISTORY OF THE Civil Wars OF ENGLAND A. IF in time as in place there were Degrees of high and low I verily believe that the highest of time would be that which passeth betwixt 1640 and 1660. For he that thence as from the Divils Mountain should have looked upon the World and observed the Actions of Men especially in England might have had a prospect of all kinds of Injustice and of all kinds of Folly that the world could afford and how they were produced by their Hypocrisy and self-conceit whereof the one is double Iniquity and the other double Folly B. I should be glad to behold the Prospect You that have lived in that time and in that part of your Age wherein Men used to see best into good and evil I pray you set â—â—e that could not see so well upon the same Mountain by the relation of the actions you then saw and of their causes Pretentions Justice Order Artifice and Events A. In the year 1640. The Government of England was Monarchical and the King that reigned Charles the I. of that Name holding the Soveraignty by Right of a Discent continued above 600 years and from a much longer Discent King of Sotland and from the Time of his Ancestors Henry the 2. King of Ireland a man that wanted no Vertue either of Body or Mind nor endeavour'd any thing more than to discharge his duty towards his God in the well-governing of his Subjects B. How could he than miscarry having in every County so many Train'd-bands as would put together have made an Army of 60000 Men and divers Magazines of Ammunition in places fortified If those Souldiers had been as they and all others of his Subjects ought to have been at his Majesties command The Peace and Happiness of the three Kingdoms had continued as it was left by K. James but the people were corrupted generally and Disobedient Persons esteemed the best Patriots B. But sure there were Men enough besides those that were ill-affected to have made an Army sufficient for to have kept the People from uniting into a Body able to oppose him A. Truly if the King had had Money I think he might have had Souldiers enough in England for there were very few of the common People that cared much for either of the Causes but would have taken any side for pay and plunder But the Kings Treasure was very low and his Enemies that pretended the Peoples ease from Taxes and other specious things had the Command of the Purses of the City of London and of most Cities and Corporate Towns in England and of many particular Persons besides B. But how comes the People to be so corrupted and what kind of People were they that did so seduce them A. The Seducers were of divers sorts One sort were Ministers Ministers as they called themselves of Christ and sometimes in their Sermons to the People Gods Embassadors pretending to have a Right from God to govern every one his Parish and their Assembly the whole Nation Secondly There were a very great number though not comparable to the other which notwithstanding that the Popes Power in England both Temporal and Ecclesiastical had been by Act of Parliament abolished did still retain a belief that we ought to be governed by the Pope whom they pretended to be the Vicar of Christ and in the Right of Christ to be the Governour of all Christian People and these were known by the Name of PAPISTS as the Ministers I mentioned before were commonly called PRESBYTERIANS Thirdly There were not a few who in the beginning of the Troubles were not discovered but shortly after declared themselves for a Liberty in Religion and those of different Opinions one from another Some of them because they would have all Congregations free and independant upon one another were called INDEPENDANTS others that held Baptism to Infants and such as understood not into what they are Baptized to be ineffectual were called therefore ANABAPTISTS Others that held that Christs Kingdom was at this time to begin upon Earth were called FIFTH-MONARCHY-MEN besides divers other Sects as QUAKERS ADAMITES c. whose names and peculiar Doctrines I do not very well remember and these were the Enemies which arose against his Majesty from the private Interpretation of the Scripture exposed to every Mans scanning in his Mother Tongue Fourthly There were an exceeding great number of Men of the greater sort that had been so educated as that in their youth having read the Books written by famous men of the Ancient Grecian and Roman Commonwealths concerning their Policy and great Actions in which Book the Popular Government was extol'd by that glorious Name of Liberty and Monarchy disgraced by the Name of Tyranny they became thereby in love with their form of Government And out of these men were chosen the greatest part of the HOUSE OF COMMONS Or if they were not the greatest part yet by advantage of their Eloquence were always able to sway the rest Fifthly The City of London and other great Towns of Trade having in admiration the prosperity of the low Countries after they had revolted from their Monarch the King of Spain were inclined to think that the like change of Government here would to them produce the like prosperity Sixthly There were a very great Number that had either wasted their fortunes or thought them too mean for the good part they thought were in themselves and more there were that had able bodies and saw no means how honestly to get their Bread These longed for a War and hoped to maintain themselves hereafter by the lucky chusing of a Party to side with and consequently did for the most part serve under them that had greatest plenty of Money Lastly The People in general were so ignorant of their Duties as that not one perhaps of 1000. knew what Right any man had to command him or what necessity there was of King or Commonwealth for which he was to part with his Money against his will but thought himself to be so much Master of whatsoever he possest that it could not be taken from him upon any pretence of Common Safety without his own consent King they thought was but a Title of the highest honour which Gentlemen Knight Baron Earl Duke were but steps to ascend to with the help of Riches and had no Rule of Equity but Precedents and Custom and he was thought wisest and fittest to be chosen for a Parliament who was worst averse to the granting of Subsidies or other publick Payments B. In such a Constitution of People methinks the King is already outed of his Government so as they need not have taken Arms for it For I cannot imagine how the King should come by any means to resist them A. There was indeed very great difficulty in the business but of
who as they were not much molested in points of Conscience so they were not by their own Inclination very troublesom to the Civil Government but by the secret practice of Jesuites and other Emissaries of the Roman Church they were made less quiet than they ought to have been and some of them to venture upon the most horrid Act that ever had been heard of before I mean upon the Gunpowder Treason and upon that account the Papists in England have been looked upon as men that would not be sorry for any disorders here that might possibly make way to the restoring of the Pope's Authority and therefore I named them for one of the distempers of the State of England in the time of our late King Charles B. I see that Monsieur du Plesis and Dr Morton Bishop of Durham writing of the progress of the Pope's Power and intituling their Books one of them The Mystery of Iniquity the other The Grand Imposture were both in the right for I believe there was never such another cheat in the World And I wonder that the Kings and States of Christendom never perceived it A. It is manifest they did perceive it How else durst they make War against the Pope and some of them take him out of Rome it self and carry him away Prisoner but if they would have freed themselves from his Tyranny they should have agreed together and made themselves every one as Henry the Eighth did Head of the Church within their own respective dominions but not agreeing they let his power continue every one hopeing to make use of it when there should be cause against his neighbour B. Now as to the other Distemper by Presbyterians How came their Power to be so great being of themselves for the most part but so many poor Scholars A. This Controversy between the Papist and Reformed Churches could not chuse but make every man to the best of his power examine by the Scriptures which of them was in the right and to that end they were translated into Vulgar Tongue Whereas before the Translation of them was not allowed nor any man to read them but such as had express License so to do for the Pope did concerning the same that Moses did concerning Mount Sinai Moses suffered no man to go up to it to hear God speak or gaze upon him but such as he himself took with him and the Pope suffered none to speak with God in the Scriptures that had not some part of the Pope's Spirit in him for which he might be trusted B. Certainly Moses did therein very wisely and according to God's own Commandment A. No doubt of it and the event it self hath made it since appear so for after the Bible was Translated into English every Man nay every Boy and Wench that could read English thought they spoke with God Almighty and understood what he said when by a certain Number of Chapters a Day they had read the Scriptures once or twice over the Reverence and Obedience due to the Reformed Church here and to the Bishops and Pastors therein was cast off and every man became a Judge of Religion and an Interpreter of the Scriptures to himself B. Did not the Church of England intend it should be so What other end could they have in recommending the Bible to me if they did not mean I should make it the Rule of my Actions else they might have kept it though open to themselves to me Sealed up in Hebrew Greek and Latin and fed me out of it in such measure as had been requisite for the Salvation of my Soul and the Churches peace A. I confess this License of Interpreting the Scripture was the cause of so many several Sects as have lain hid till the beginning of the late King's Reign and did then appear to the disturbance of the Commonwealth but to return to the Story Those persons that fled for Religion in the time of Queen Mary resided for the most part in places where the Reformed Religion was professed and governed by an Assembly of Ministers who also were not a little made use of for want of better Statesmen in points of Civil Government which pleased so much the English and Scotch Protestants that lived amongst them that at their return they wished there were the same Honour and Reverence given to the Ministry in their own Countries and in Scotland King James being then young soon with the help of some of the powerful Nobility they brought it to pass also they that returned into England in the beginning of the Reign of Queen Elizabeth endeavoured the same here but could never effect it till this last Rebellion nor without the help of the Scots and it was no sooner effected but it was defeated again by the other Sects which by the preaching of the Presbyterians and private Interpretation of Scripture were grown numerous B. I know indeed that in the beginning of the late War the Power of the Presbyterians was so very great that not only the Citizens of Londen were almost all of them at their Devotion but also the greatest part of all other Cities and Market Towns of England But you have not yet told me by what Art and what Degrees they became so strong A. It was not their own Art alone that did it but they had the conâ—urrence of a great many Gentlemen thaâ— did no less desire a Popular Government in the Civil State than these Ministers did in the Church and aâ—â— these did in the Pulpit draw the People to their Opinions and to a dislike of the Church-Government Canons and Common-Prayer-Book so did the other make them in love with Democracy by their Harangues in the Parliament and by their discourse and communication with people in the Countrey continually extolling of Liberty and inveighing against Tyranny leaving the people to collect of themselves that this Tyranny was the present Government of the State And as the Presbyterians brought with them into their Churches their Divinity from the Universities so did many of the Gentlemen bring their Politicks from thence into the Parliament but neither of them did this very boldly in the time of Q. Eliz. and though it be not likely that all of them did it out of malice but many of them out of error yet certainly the chief Leaders were ambitious Ministers and ambitious Gentlemen the Ministers envying the Authority of Bishops whom they thought less learned and the Gentlemen envying the Privy-Council whom they thought less wise than themselves For 't is a hard matter for men who do all think highly of their own Wits when they have also acquired the Learning of the University to be perswaded that they want any ability requisite for the Government of a Commonwealth especially having read the Glorious Histories and the Sententious Politicks of the Antient Popular Government of the Greeks and Romans amongst whom Kings were hated and branded with the name of Tyrants and Popular Government though no Tyrant
time they had demanded some of them in a Petition which they called a Petition of Right which nevertheless the King had granted them in a former Parliament though he deprived himself thereby not only of the Power to Levy Money without their consent but also of his ordinary Revenue by Custom of Tonnage and Poundage and of the Liberty to put into Custody such men as he thought likely to disturb the Peace and raise Sedition in the Kingdom As for the men that did this 't is enough to say they were the Members of the last Parliament and of some other Parliaments in the beginning of the Reign of King Charles I. and the end of the Reign of King James To name them all is not necessary farther then the Story shall require most of them were Members of the House of Commons some few also of the Lords But all such as had a great Opinion of their sufficiency in Politicks which they thought was not sufficiently taken notice of by the King B. How could the Parliament when the King had a great Navy and a great number of Train'd Souldiers and all the Magazines of Ammunition in his power be able to begin the War A. The King had these things in his Right but that signifies little when they had the Custody of the Navy and Magazines and with them all the Trained Souldiers and in a manner all the Subjects were by the Preaching of Presbyterian Ministers and the seditious whispering of false and ignorant Politians made his Enemies and when the King could have no Money but what the Parliament should give him which you may be sure should not be enough to maintain his Legal Power which they intended to take from him And yet I think they would never have adventured into the Field but for that unlucky business of imposing upon the Scots who were all Presbyterians our Book of Common Prayer for I believe the English would never have taken well that the Parliament should make War upon the King upon any provocation unless it were in their own defence in case the King should first make War upon them and therefore it behoved them to provoke the King that he might do something that might look like Hostility It hapned in the year 1637. that the King by advice as it is thought of the Arch-bishop of Canterbury sent down a Book of Common Prayer into Scotland not differing in substance from ours nor much in words besides the putting of the word Presbyter for that of Minister commanding it to be used for Conformity to this Kingdom by the Ministers there for an ordinary of Divine Service this being read in the Church at Edinburgh caused such a Tumult there that he that read it had much adoe to escape with his life and gave occasion to the greatest part of the Nobility and others to enter by their own Authority into a Covenant amongst themselves to put down Episcopacy without consulting the King which they presently did animated thereto by their own Confidence or by assurance from some of the Democratical English-men that in former Parliaments had been the greatest opposers of the King's Interest that the King would not be able to raise an Army to chastise them without calling a Parliament which would be sure to favour them for the thing which those Democraticals chiefly then aimed at was to force the King to call a Parliament which he had not done of ten years before as having found no help but hindrance to his designs in the Parliaments he had formerly called Howsoever contrary to their expectation by the help of his better affected Subjects of the Nobility and Gentry he made a shift to raise a sufficient Army to have reduced the Scots to their former obedience if it had proceeded to Battle And with this Army he marched himself into Scotland where the Scotch Army was also brought into the Field against him as if they meant to fight but then the Scotch sent to the King for leave to treat by Commissioners on both sides and the King willing to avoid the destruction of his own Subjects condescended to it the issue was peace and the King thereupon went to Edinburgh and passed an Act of Parliament there to their Satisfaction B. Did he not then confirm Episcopacy A. No but yeilded to the abolishing of it but by the means the English were crossed in their hope of a Parliament but the Democraticals formerly opposers of the King's Interest ceased not to endeavour still to put the two Nations into a War to the end the King might buy the Parliaments help at no luss a price than Soveraignty it self B. But what was the Cause that the Gentry and Nobility of Scotland were so averse from Episcopacy For I can hardly believe that their Consciences were extraordinarily tender nor that there were so very great Divines as to know what was the true Church Discipline established by our Saviour and his Apostles nor yet so much in love with their Ministers as to be over-ruled by them in the Government either Ecclesiastical or Civil for in their lives they were just as other men are Pursuers of their own Interests and Preferments wherein they were not more opposed by the Bishops than by their Presbyterian Ministers A. Truly I do not know I cannot enter into other mens thoughts farther than I am led by the consideration of Human Nature in general Bet upon this consideration I see First That men of Ancient Wealth and Nobility are not apt so to brook that poor Sâ—hollars should as they must when they are made Bishops be their Fellows Secondly That from the emulation of Glory between the Nations they be willing to see their Nation afflicted with Civil War and might hope by aiding the Rebels here to acquire some Power over the English at least so far as to establish here the Presbyterian Discipline which was also one of the points they afterwards openly demanded Lastly They might hope for in the War some great sum of Money as a reward of their assistance bendes great Booty which they afterwards obtained but whatsoever was the cause of their hatred to Bishops the pulling them down was not all they-timed at if it had now that Episcopacy was abolished by Act of Parliament they would have rested satisfied which they did not for after the King was returned to London the English Presbyterians and Democraticals by whose favour they had put down Bishops in Scotland thought it reason to have the assistance of the Scotch for the pulling down the Bishops in England and in order thereunto they might perhaps deal with the Scots secretly to rest unsatisfied with that pacification which they were before contented with howsoever it was not long after the King was returned to London they sent up to some of their friends at Court a certain Paper containing as they apprehended the Articles of the said pacification a false and scandalous Paper which was by the King's Command burnt as I
have heard publickly and so both parties returned to the same Condition as they were in when the King went down with his Army B. And so there was a great deal of Money cast away to no purpose but you have not told me who was General of that Army A. I told you the King was there in person he that commanded under him was the Earl of Arundel a man that wanted not either Valour or Judgement but to proceed to Battle or to Treaty was not in his power but in the King 's B. He was a man of a most Noble and Loyal Family and whose Ancestors had formerly given a great overthrow to the Scots in their own Countrey and in all likelihood he might have given them the like now if they had Fought A. He might indeed but it had been but a kind of Superstition to have made him General upon that account though many Generals heretofore have been chosen for the good luck of their Ancestors in the like occasions In the long War between Athens and Sparta a General of the Athenians by Sea won many Victories against the Spartans for which cause after his death they chose his Son for General with ill success The Romans that conquered Carthage by the valour and conduct of Scipio when they were to make War again in Africk against Caesar chose another Scipio a man valiant and wise enough but he perished in the Employment And to come home to our own Nation the Earl of Essex made a fortunate Expedition to Cadiz but his Son sent afterwards to the same place could do nothing 'T is a foolish Superstition to hope that God has entailed Success in War upon a Nation or Family B. After the pacification broken what succeeded next A. The King sent Duke Hamilton with Commission and Instructions into Scotland to call a Parliament there but all was to no purpose and to use all the means he could otherwise but the Scots were resolved to raise an Army and to enter into England to deliver as they pretended their grievances to his Majesty in a Petition because the King they said being in the hands of evil Counsellors they could not otherwise obtain their right but the truth is they were otherwise animated to it by the Democratical and Presbyterian English with a promise of reward and hope of Plunder Some have said that Duke Hamilton also did rather encourage them to than deter them from the Expedition as hoping by the disorder of the two Kingdoms to bring to pass that which he had been formerly accused of to endeavour to make himself King of Scotland but I take this to have been a very uncharitable Censure upon so little ground to judge so uncharitably of a man that afterwards lost his life in seeking to procure the liberty of the King his Master This resolution of the Scots to enter into England being known the King wanting Money to raise an Army against them was now as his Enemies here wished constrained to call a Parliamene to meet at Westminster the 13. of April 1640. B. Me-thinks a Parliament of England if upon any occasion should furnish the King with Money now in a War against the Scots out of an inveterate disaffection to that Nation that had always taken part with their Enemies the French and which always esteemed the Glory of England an abatement of their own A. 'T is indeed commonly seen that Neighbour-Nations envy one anothers Honour and that the less potent bears the greater malice but that hinders them not from agreeing in those things which their common ambition leads them to And therefore the King found for the War but the less help from this Parliament and most of the Members thereof in their ordinary discourses seemed to wonder why the King should make a War upon Scotland and in that Parliament sometime called them their Brethren the Scots but instead of taking the King's business which was the raising of Money into their consideration they fell upon the redressing of Grievances and especially such way of levying Money as in the last intermission of Paâ—liament the King had been forced to use such as were Ship-Money Knighâ—hood and such other Vails as one may call them of the Regal Office which Lawyers had found justifiable by the antâ—ent Records of the Kingdom Besides they fell upon the actions of divers Ministers of State though done by the Kings own Command and Warrant insomuch that before they were called the Money which was necessary for this War if they had given Money as they never meant to do had come too late It is true there was mention of a sum of Money to be given the King by way of bargain for relinquishing his right to Ship-money and some other of his Prerogatives but so seldom and without determining any Sum that it was in vain for the King to hope for any success and therefore on the Fifth of May following he dissolved them B. Where then had the King Money to raise and pay his Army A. He was forced the second time to make use of the Nobility and Gentry who contributed some more some less according to the greatness of their Estates but amongst them all they made up a very sufficient Army B. It seems then that the same men that crossed his business in the Parliament now out of Parliament advanced it all they could what was the reason of that A. The greatest part of the Lords in Parliament and the Gentry throughout England were more affected to Monarchy than to a Popular Government but so as not to endure to hear of the King 's absolute Power which made them in time of Parliament easily to condescend to abridge it and bring the Government to mixt Monarchy as they called it wherein the absolute Sovereignty should be divided between the King the House of Lords and the House of Commons B. But how if they cannot agree A. I think they never thought of that but I am sure they never meant the Sovereignty should be wholly either in one or both Houses besides they were loth to desert the King when he was invaded by Foreigners for the Scots were esteemed by them as a Foreign Nation B. It is strange to me that England and Scotland being but one Island and their Language almost the same and being governed by one King should be thought Foreigners to one another The Romans were Masters of many Nations and to oblige them the more to obey the Edicts of the Law sent unto them by the City of Rome they thought fit to make them all Romans and out of divers Nations as Spain Germany Italy and France to advance some that they thought worthy even to be Senators of Rome and to give every one of the common People the priviledge of the City of Rome by which they were protected from the contumelies of other Nations where they resided Why were not the Scotch and English in like manner united into one People A. King James at
his first coming to the Crown of England did endeavour it but could not prevail But for all that I believe the Scotch have now as many priviledges in England as any Nation had in Rome of those which were so as you say made Romans for they are all Naturalized and have right to buy Land in England to them and their Heirs B. 'T is true of them that were born in Scotland after the time that King James was in possession of the Kingdom of England A. There be very few now that were born before But why have they a better right that were born after than they that were born before B. Because they were born Subjects to the King of England and the rest not A. Were not the rest born Subjects to King James and was not he King of England B. Yes but not then A I understand not the subtilty of the distinction but upon what Law is that distinction grounded is there any Statute to that purpose B. I cannot tell I think not but it is grounded upon Equity A. I see little equity in this that those Nations that are bound to equal obedience to the same King should not have equal Priviledges and now seeing there be so very few born before King Jame's coming in what greater priviledges had those ingrafted Romans by their Naturalization in the State of Rome or in the State of England the English themselves more than the Scotch D. Those Romans when any of them were in Rome had their voice in the making of Laws A. And the Scotch have their Parliaments wherein their assent is required to the Law there made which is as good Have not many of the Provinces of France their several Parliaments and several Constitutions yet they are all equally Natural Subjects to the King of France And therefore for my part I think they were mistaken both English and Scotch in calling one another Foreigners Howsoever that be the King had a very sufficient Army wherewith he marched towards Scotland and by that time he was come to York the Scots Army was drawn up to the Fronteers and ready to march into England which also they presently did giving out all the way that their march should be without damage to the Countrey and that their Errand was onely to deliver a Petition to the King for the redress of many pretended Injuries they had received from such of the Court whose counsel the King most followed so they passed through Northumberland quietly till they came to a Ford in the River of Tine a little above Newcastle where they found some little opposition from a party of the King's Army sent thither to stop them whom the Scots easily mastered and as soon as they were over seized on Newcastle and coming farther on upon the City of Duresme and sent to the King to desire a Treaty which was granted and the Commissioners on both sides met at Rippon the conclusion was that all should be referred to the Parliament which the King should call to meet at Westminster the third of November following in the same year 1640. And thereupon the King returned to London B. So the Armies were disbanded A. No The Scotch Army was to be defrayed by the Counties of Northumberland and Duresme and the King was to pay his own till the disbanding of both should be agreed upon in Parliament B. So in effect both the Armies were maintained at the King's Charge and the whole Controversie to be desided by a Parliament almost wholly Presbyterian and as Partial to the Scotch as themselves could have wished A. And yet for all this they durst not presently make War upon the King there was so much yet left of Reverence to him in the Hearts of People as to have made them odious if they had declared what they intended they must have some colour or other to make it be believed that the King made War first upon the Parliament And besides they had not yet sufficiently disgraced him in Sermons and Pamphlets nor removed from about him those they thought could best counsel him therefore they resolved to proceed with him like skilful hunters First to single him out by men disposed in all parts to drive him into the open field and then in case he should not seem to turn head to call that making a War against the Parliament And first They called in question such as had either Preached or written in defence of those Rights which belonging to the Crown they meant to usurp and take from the King to themselves whereupon some few Writers and Preachers were Imprisoned or forced to fly The King not protecting these they proceeded to call in question some of the King 's own Actions in his Ministers whereof they Imprison'd some and some went beyond Sea and whereas certain persons having endeavoured by Books and Sermons to raise Sedition and committed other Crimes of high Nature had therefore been censured by the Kings Council in the Star-Chamber and Imprisoned the Parliament by their own Authority to try it seems how the King and the people would take it for their Persons were inconsiderable ordered their setting at Liberty which was accordingly done with great Applause of the People that flocked about them in London in manner of a Triumph This being done without resistance the Kings Right to Ship-money B. Ship-money what 's that A. The Kings of England for the defence of the Sea had power to Tax all the Counties of England whether they were Maritine or not for the Building and Furnishing of Ships which Tax the King had then lately found cause to impose and the Parliament exclaimed against it as an oppression And one of their Members that had been Taxed but 20 Shillings mark the Oppression a Parliament-man of 500 l. a Year Land Taxed at 20 Shillings they were forced to bring it to a Tryal at Law he refusing payment and he was cast again When all the Judges of Westminster were demanded their Opinions concerning the legality of it of Twelve that there are it was judged Legal by Ten for which though they were not punished yet they were affrighted by the Parliament B. What did the Parliament mean when they did exclaim against it as illegal Did they mean it was against Statute Law or against the Judgments of Lawyers given heretofore which are commonly called Reports or did they mean it was against Equity which I take to be the same with the Law of Nature A. It is a hard matter or rather impossible to know what other men mean especially if they be crafty but sure I am Equity was not their ground for their pretence of Immunity from Contributing to the King but at their own pleasure for when they have laid the Burthen of defending the whole Kingdom and governing it upon any person whatsoever there is little Equity he should depend on others for the means of performing it or if he do they are his Soveraign not he theirs and as for
them but the weight they had to aggravate their accusation to the Ignorant multitudes which think all faults hainous that are exprest in hainous terms If they hate the reason accused as they did this man not only for being of the Kings party but also for deserting the Parliaments party as an Apostate B. I pray you tell me also what they meant by Arbitrary Government which they seemed so much to hate Is there any Governour of a people in the World that is forced to Govern them or forced to make this and that Law whether he will or no! I think or if any be that forces him does certainly make Laws and Govern Arbitrarily A. That is true and the true meaning of the Parliament was that not the King but they themselves should have the Arbitrary Government not only of England but of Ireland and as it appeared by the event of Scotland also B. How the King came by the Government of Scotland and Ireland by descent of his Ancestors every body can â—ell but if the King of England and his Heirs should chance which God forbid to fail I cannot imagine what Title the Parliament of England can acquire thereby to either of those Nations A. Yet they say they have been conquer'd antiently by the English Subjects Money B. Like enough and suitable to the rew of their imdence A. Impudence in Democratical Assemblies does almost all that is done 't is the Goddess of Rhetorick and carries on proof with it for though ordinary men will not from so great boldness of affirmation conclude there is great boldness of affirmation conclude there is a great probability in the King affirmed upon this accusation He was brought to his Trial at Westminster-hall before the House of Lords and found Guilty and presently after declared a Traitor by a Bill of Attainder that is by Act of Parliament B. It is a strange thing that the Lords should be induced upon so light grounds to give a sentence or give their assent to a Bill so prejudicial to themselves and their posterity A. 'T was not well done and yet as it seems not ignorantly for there is a clause in the Bill that it should not be taken hereafter for an example that is for a prejudice in the like case hereafter B. That is worse than the Bill it self and is a plain confession that their Sentence was unjust for what harâ—â— is their in the example of just Sentences Besides if hereafter the like case should happen the Sentence is not at all made weaker by such a provision A. Indeed I believe that the Lords most of them were not-willing to condemn him of Treason they were awed to it by the clamor of the common people that came to Westminster crying out Justice Justice against the Earl of Strafford the which were caused to flock together by some of the House of Commons that were well assured after the Triumphant Welcome of Prinne Burton and Bastwick to put the People into Tumult upon any occasion they desired They were awed unto it partly also by the House of Commons it self which if it desired to undo a Lord had no more to do but to Vote him a Delinquent A. A Delinquent what 's that A sinner is 't not Did they mean to undo all sinners A. By Delinquent they meant onely a man to whom they would do all the hurt they could but the Lords did not yet I think suspect they meant to casheer their whole House B. It 's a strange thing the whole House should not perceive the ruine of the King's power or weakening of themselves for they could not think it likely that they everâ— meant to take the Sovereignty from the King to give it to them who were few in number and less in power than so many Commoners because less beloved by the People A. But it seems not so strange to me for the Lords for their personal abilities as they were no less so also were they no more skilful in the Publick affairs than the Knights and Burgesses for there is no reason to think that if one that is to day a Knight of the Shire in the Lower House be to morrow made a Lord and a Member of the Higher House is therefore wiser than he was before they are all of both Houses prudent and able men as any in the Land in the business of their private Estates which requires nothing but diligence and a Natural Wit to govern them but for the Government of a Common-wealth neither Wit nor Prudence nor Diligence is enough without infallible Rules and the true Science of Equity and Justice B. If this be true it is impossible any Common-wealth in the World whether Monarchy Aristocracy or Democracy should continue long without change or sedition tending to change either of the Government or of the Governours A. 'T is true nor have any the greatest Common-wealths in the World been long from Sedition the Greeks had it first their Petty Kings and then by Sedition came to be Petty Common-wealths and then growing to be greater Common-wealths by Sedition again became Monarchies and all for want of Rules of Justice for the common People to take notice of which if the People had known in the beginning of every of these Seditions the ambitious persons could never have had the hope to disturb their Government after it had been once setled for ambition can do little without hands and few hands it could have if the common People were as diligently instructed in the true Principles of their Duty as they are terrifi'd and amazed by Preachers with fruitless and dangerous Doctrines concerning the nature of Man's Will and many other Philosophical Points that tend not at all to the salvation of the Soul in the World to come nor to their ease in this life but onely to the discretion towards the Clergy of that Duty which they ought to perform to the King B. For ought I see all the States of Christendom will be subject to those fits of Rebellion as long as the World lasteth A. Like enough and yet the fault as I have said may be easily mended by mending the Universities B. How long had the Parliament now sitten A. It began Novemb. 3. 1640. My Lord of Strafford was Impeached of Treason before the Lords November 12 sent to the Tower November 22 his Trial began March 22 and ended April 13. After his Trial he was voted guilty of High Treason in the House of Commons and after that in the House of Lords May 6 and on the 12 of May beheaded B. Great Expedition But could not the King for all that have saved him by a Pardon A. The King had heard all that passed at his Trial and had declared he was unsatisfied concerning the Justice of their Sentence and I think notwithstanding the danger of his own Person from the fury of the People and that he was counselled to give way to his Execution not-only by such as he most relied
they desired the whole and absolute soveraignty and to change the Monarchical Government into an Oligarchie that is to say to make the Parliament consisting of a few Lords and about 400 Commoners absolute in the soveraignty for the present and shortly after to lay the House of Lords aside for this was the Design of the Presbyterian Ministers who taking themselves to be by right the onely Lawful Government of the Church endeavoured to bring the same Form of Government into the Civil state and as the Spiritual Laws were to be made by their Synods so their Civil Laws should be made by the House of Commons who as they thought would no less be ruled by them afterwards than formerly they had been wherein they were deceived and found themselves out-gon by their own Disciples though not in Malice yet in Wit B. What followed after this A. In August following the King supposing he had now sufficiently obliged the Parliament to proceed no farther against him took a Journey into Scotland to satisfie his Subjects there as he had done here intending perhaps so to gain their good wills that in case the Parliament here should levy Arms against him they should not be aided by the Scots wherein he also was deceived for though they seemed satisfied with what he did whereof one thing was his giving away to the Aboletion of Episcopacy Yet afterwards they made a League with the Parliament and for Money when the King began to have the better of the Parliament invaded England in the Parliaments Quarrel but this was a Year or two after B. Before you go any farther I desire to know the Ground and Original of that Right which either the House of Lords or House of Commons or both together pretend to A. It is a question of things so long past that they are now forgotten nor have we any thing to conjecture by but the Records of our own Nation and some small and obscure fragments of Roman Histories And for the Records seeing they are of things only done sometimes justly sometimes unjustly you can never by them know what Right they had but only what Right they pretended B. Howsoever let me know what light we have in this matter from the Roman Histories A. It would be too long and an useless digression to â—â—â—all the Antient Authors that speak of the forms of those Common-wealths which were amongst our first Ancestors the Saxons and other Germans and of other Nations from whom we derive the Titles of Honour now in use in England nor will it be possible to derive from them any Arguments of Right but only Examples of fact which by the Ambition of Potent Subjects have been oftener unjust than otherwise and for those Saxons or Angles that in Antient times by several Invasions made themselves Masters of this Nation they were not in themselves one Body of Common-wealth but only a League of divers Petty German Lords and States such as was the Graecian Army in the Trojan War without other Obligations than that which proceeded from their own fear and weakness nor were these Lords for the most part the Soveraigns at home in their own Country but chosen by the people for the Captains of the Forces they brought with them And therefore it was not without Equity that when they had conquer'd any part of the Land and made some one of them King thereof the rest should have greater Priviledges than the common People and Soldiers amongst which Priviledges a man may easily conjecture this to be one that they should be made acquainted and be of Council with him that hath the Soveraignty in matters of Government and have the greatest and most honourable Offices both in Peace and War But because there can be no Government where there is more than one Soveraign it cannot be inferr'd that he had a Right to oppose the King's Resolutions by force nor to enjoy those honours and places longer than they should continue good Subjects And we find that the Kings of England did upon every great occasion call them together by the name of Discreet and Wise men of the Kingdom and hear their Councils and make them Judges of all Causes that during their Sitting were brought before them But as he summon'd them at his own pleasure so had he also ever at his pleasure power to Dissolve them The Normans also that descended from the Germans as we did had the same Customs in this particular and by this means this Priviledge have the Lords to be of your King 's great Council and when they were assembled to be the highest of the King's Court of Justice continued still after the Conquest to this day But though there be amongst the Lords divers Names or Titles of Honour yet they have their Priviledge by the only name of Baron a name receiv'd from the Antient Gauls amongst whom that name signified the King's man or rather one of his great men By which it seems to me that though they gave him Council when he requir'd it yet they had no Right to make War upon him if he did not follow it B. When began first the House of Commons to be part oâ— the King 's great Council A. I do not doubt but that before the Conquest some discreet men and known to be so by the King were called by special Writ to be of the same Council though they were not Lords But that is nothing to the House of Commons the Knights of â—lares and Burgesses were never called to Parliament for ought that I know till the beginning of Edward the first or the latter end of the Reign 〈◊〉 Henry the third immediately after the mis-behaviour of the Barons and for ought any man knows were called on purpose to weaken that Power of the Lords which they had so freshly abused Before the time of Henry the third the Lords were deâ—â—oâ—â—ed most of them from such as in the Invasions and Conquests of the Germans were Peers and â—ellow-Kings 'till one was made King of them â—â—ll and their Tenants were their Subjects as it is at this day with the Lords of France But after the time of Henry the third the Kings began to make Lords in the place of them whose Issue fail'd Titularly only without the Lands belonging to their Title and by that means their Tenants being bound no longer to Terve them in the Wars they grew every day less and less able to make a Party against the King though they continued still to be his great Council And as their Power decreased To the Power of the House of Commons increased But I do not find that they were part of the King's Council at all nor Judges over other men though it cannot be denied but a King may ask their advice as well as the advice of any other But I do not find that the end of their summoning was to give advice but only in case they had any Petitions for Redress of Grievances to be ready there
with them whilst the King had his great Council about him But neither they nor the Lords could present to the King as a Grievance That the King took upon him to make the Laws to chuse his own Privy Council to raise Money and Soldiers to defend the Peace and Honour of the Kingdom to make Captains in his Army to make Governours of his Castles whom he pleased for this had been to tell the King that it was one of their Grievances that he was King B. What did the Parliament do whilst the King was in Scotland A. The King went in August after which the Parliament September the 8th adjourn'd till the 20th of October and the King return'd about the end of November following in which time the most Seditious of both Houses and which had designed the Change of Government and to cast off Monarchy but yet had not wit enough to set up another Government in its place and consequently left it to the chance of War made a Cabal amongst themselves in which they projected how by seconding one another to Govern the House of Commons and invented how to put the Kingdom by the Power of that House into a Rebellion which they then called a posture of Defence against such Dangers from abroad as they themselves should feign and publish Besides whilst the King was in Scotland the Irish Papists got together a great Party with an Intention to Massacre the Protestants there and had laid a design for the â—eizing of Dublin Castle October the 20th where the King's Officers of the Government of the County made their Residence and had effected it had it not been Discovered the night before The manner of the discovery and the Murders they committed in the Country afterwards I need not tell you since the whole story of it is extant B. I wonder they did not expect and provide for a Rebellion in Ireland as soon as they began to quarrel with the King in England For was there any body so ignorant as not to know that the Irish Papists did long for a change of Religion there as well as the Presbyterians in England Or that in general the Irish Nation did hate the name of Subjection to England or would longer be quiet than they feared an Army out of England to chastize them What better time then could they take for their Rebellion than this wherein they were encouraged not only by our weakness caused by this Division between the King and his Parliament but also by the Example of the Presbyterians both of the Scorch and English Nation But what did the Parliament do upon this occasion in the King's absence A. Nothing but consider what use they might make of it to their own ends partly by imputing it to the King 's evil Councellors and partly by occasion thereof to demand of the King the Power of Pressing and Ordering of Soldiers which Power whosoever has has also without doubt the whole â—overaignty B. When came the King back A. He came back the 25th of November and was welcomed with the Acclamations of the common people as much as if he had been the most beloved of the Kings before him but found not a Reception by the Parliament answerable to it They presently began to pick new Quarrels against him out of every thing he said to them December 2. the King called together both Houses of Parliament and then did only recommend unto them the raising of Succours for Ireland B. What Quarrel could they pick out of that A. None but in order thereto as they may pretend they had a Bill in Agitation to assert the power of Levying and Pressing â—oldiers to the two Houses of the Lords and Commons which was as much as to take â—â—om the King the Power of the Militia which is in effect the whole Soveraign Power for he that hath the Power of Levying and Commanding of his Soldiers has all other Rights of Soveraignty which he shall please to claim The King hearing of it called the Houses of Parliament together again on December the 14th and then pressed again the business of Ireland as there was need for all this while the Irish were murdering the English in Ireland and strengthening themselves against the Forces they expected to come out of England and withall told them he took notice of the Bill in Agitation for Pressing of Soldiers and that he was content it should pass with a Salvo Jure both for him and them because the present time was unreasonable to dispute it in B. What was there unreasonable in this A. Nothing what 's unreasonable is one question what they quarrell'd at is another They quarrell'd at this that His Majesty took notice of the Bill while it was in debate in the House of Lords before it was presented to him in the Course of Parliament And also that he shewed himself displeased with those that propounded the third Bill both which they declared to be against the Priviledges of Parliament and petitioned the King to give them Reparation against those by whose evil Council he was induced to it that they might receive condign punishment B. This was cruel proceeding Do not the Kings of England use to sit in the Lords House when they please And was not this Bill then in debate in the House of Lords It is a strange thing that a man should be lawfully in the company of men where he must needs hear and see what they say and do and yet must not take notice of it so much as to the same Company for though the King was not present at the Debate it self yet it was lawful for any of the Lords to make him acquainted with it Any one of the House of Commons though not present at a Proposition or Debate in the House nevertheless hearing of it from some of his fellow Members may certainly not only take notice of it but also speak to it in the House of Commons But to make the King give up his Friends and Counsellors to them to be put to Death Banishment or Imprisonment for their good will to him was such a Tyranny over a King no King ever exercised over any Subject but in cases of Treason or Murder and seldom then A. Presently hereupon grew a kind of War between the Peers of Parliament and those of the Secretaries and other able Men that were with the King â—or upon the 15th of December they sent to the King a Paper called a Remonstrance of the State of the Kingdom and with it a Petition both which they caused to be published in the Remonstrance they complained of certain mischievous Designs of a Malignant Party then before the beginning of the Parliament grown â—â—pe and did set forth what means had been used for the preventing of it by the Wisdom of the Parliament what Rubs they had found therein what course was fit to be taken for the restoring and establishing the Antient Honour Greatness and Safety of the Crown and
Ship-money They had taken away Coat and Conduct-money and other Military Charges which they said amounted to little less than the Ship-money That they supprest all Monopolies which they reckoned above a Million yearly sav'd by the Subject That they had quell'd Living Grievances meaning Evil Counsellors and Actors by the Death of my Lord Strafford by the flight of the Chancellor Finch and of Secretary Windebank by the Imprisonment of the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury and Judges that they had past a Bill for a Triennial Parliament and another for the Continuance of the present Parliament till they should think fit to Dissolve themselves B. That is to say for ever if they be suffered But the summ of all those things which they had done for the Kingdom is that they had left it without Government without Strength without Money without Law and without good Council A. They reckoned also putting down of the High-Commission and the abating of the Power of the Council-Table and of the Bishops and their Courts the taking away of unnecessary Ceremonies in Religion removing of Ministers from their Livings that were not of their Faction and putting in such as were B. All this was but their own and not the Kingdoms business A. The Good they had done the King was first they said the giving of 25000 l. a month for the Relief of the Northern Counties B. What need of Relief had the Northern more than the rest of the Counties of England A. Yes In the Northern Counties were quartered the Scotch Army which the Parliament call'd in to oppose the King and consequently their Quarters was to be discharged B. True but by the Parliament that call'd them in A. But they say no and that this Money was given the King because he is bound to protect his Subjects B. He is no farther bound to that than they to give him Money wherewithal to do it This is very great Impudence to raise an Army against the King and with that Army to oppress their Fellow-subjects and then require that the King should relieve them that is to say be at the Charge of Paying the Army that was raised to fight against him A. Nay farther they put to the King's Accounts the 30000 l. given to the Scots without which they would not have Invaded England besides many other things that I now remember not B. I did not think there had been so great Impudence and Villany in Mankind A. You have not observ'd the world long enough to see all that 's ill such was their Remonstrance as I have told you with it they sent a Petition containing three points First That His Majesty would deprive the Bishops of their Votes in Parliament and remove such Oppressions in Religion Church Government and Discipline as they had brought in Secondly That he would remove from his Council all such as should promote the Peoples Grievances and Imploy in his great and public Affairs such as the Parliament should confide in Thirdly That he would not give away the Lands Escheated to the Crown by the Rebellion in Ireland B. This last point methinks was not wisely put in at this time it should have been reserv'd till they had subdued the Rebels against whom there were yet no Forces sent over 'T is like selling the Lion's Skin before they had kill'd him But what answer was made to the other two Propositions A. What answer should be made but a Denial About the same time the King himself Exhibited Articles against six persons of the Parliament five whereof were of the House of Comons and one of the House of Lords accusing them of High Treason and upon the fourth of January went himself to the House of Commons to demand those five of them but private notice having been given by some Treacherous person about the King they had absented themselves and by that means frustrated His Majesties Intention and after he was gone the House making a hainous matter of it and a High Breach of their Priviledges adjourned themselves into London there to sit as a General Committee pretending they were not safe at Westminster for the King when he went to the House to demand those persons had somewhat more attendance with him but not otherwise armed than his servants used to be than he ordinarily had and would not be pacified though the King did afterwards wave the prosecution of those persons unless he would also discover to them those that gave him Counsel to go in that manner to the Parliament-House to the end they might receive condign punishment which was the Word they used instead of Cruelty B. This was a harsh Demand Was it not enough that the King should forbear his Enemies but also that he must betray his Friends If they thus tyrannize over the King before they have gotten the Soveraign Power into their Hands how will they tyrannize over their Fellow-Subjects when they have gotten it A. So as they did B. How long staid that Commitee in London A. Not above 2 or 3 Days and then were brought from London to the Parliament-House by Water in great Triumph guarded with a tumultuous number of Armed Men there to sit in security in despite of the King and make Traiterous Acts against Him such and as many as they listed and under favour of these Tumults to frighten away from the House of Peers all such as were not of their own Faction for at this time the Rabble was so insolent that scarce any of the Bishops durst go to the House for fear of Violence upon their Persons insomuch that Twelve of them excused themselves of Coming thither and by way of Petition to the King remonstrated that they were not permitted to go quietly to the Performance of that Duty and protesting against all Determinations as of none Effect that should pass in the House of Lords during their forced Absence which the House of Commons taking hold of sent up to the Peers one of their Members to accuse them of High Treason whereupon Ten of them were sent to the Tower after which time there was no more words of their High Treason but there passed a Bill by which they were deprived of their Votes in Parliament And to this Bill they got the King's Assent and in the beginning of September after they Voted the Bishops should have no more to do in the Government of the Church but to this they had not the King's Assent the War being now begun B. What made the Parliament so averse to Episcopacy and especially the House of Lords whereof the Bishops were Members For I see no reason why they should do it to gratifie a number of poor Parish Priests that were Presbyterians and that were never likely to serve the Lords but on the contrary to do their best to pull down their power and subject them to their Synods and Classes A. For the Lords very few of them did perceive the intention of the Presbyterians and besides that they durst not I
believe oppose the Lower House B. But why were the Lower House so earnest against them A. Because they meant to make use of their Tenants and with pretended Sanctity to make the King and his Party odious to the People by whose help they were to set up Democracy and Depose the King or to let him have the Title only so long as he should Act for their purposes But not only the Parliament but in a manner all the People of England were their Enemies upon the account of their behaviour as being they said too imperious This was all that was colourable laid to their charge the main of the pulling them down was the Envy of the Presbyterians that incensed the People against them and against Episcopacy it self B. How would the Presbyterians have the Church to be govern'd A. By National and Provincial Synods B. Is not this to make the National Assembly an Arch-Bishop and the Provincial Assemblies so many Bishops A. Yes but every Minister shall have the delight of sharing the Government and consequently of being able to be reveng'd on them that do not admire their Learning and help to fill their purses and win to their service them that do B. 'T is a hard Case that there should be two Factions to trouble the Common-wealth without any Interest of their own other than every particular man may have and that their quarrels should be only about Opinions that is about who has the most Learning as if their Learning ought to be the Rule of Governing the whole World What is it they are Learned in is it Politicks and Rules of State I know it is called Divinity but I hear almost nothing preacht but matter of Philosophy for Religion in it self admits of no Controversie 'T is a Law of the Kingdom and ought not to be disputed I do not think they pretend to speak with God and know his will by any other way than reading the Scriptures which we also do A. Yes some of them do and give themselves out for Prophets by extraordinary Inspiration but the rest pretend only for their Advancement to Benefices and Charge of Souls a greater skill in the Scriptures than other men have by reason of their breeding in the Universities and knowledge there gotten of the Latin Tongue and some also of the Greek and Hebrew Tongues wherein the Scriptures were written besides their knowledge of Natural Philosophy which is there publickly taught B. As for the Latin Greek and Hebrew it was once to the Detection of the Roman Fraud and to the Ejection of the Romish Power very profitable or rather necessary But now that is done and we have the Scripture in English and Preaching in English I see no great need of Latin Greek and Hebrew I should think my self better qualified by under standing well the Languages of our Neighbours French Dutch and Italian I think it was never seen in the world before the Power of Popes was setup that Philosophy was much conducing to power in a Commonwealth A. But Philosophy together with Divinity hath very much conduced to the Advancement of the Professors thereof to places of the greatest Authority next to the Authority of Kings themselves in most of the Antient Kingdoms of the world as is manifestly to be seen in the History of those times B. I pray you cite me some of the Authors and places A. First what were the Druids of old time in Britany and France what Authority these had you may see in Caesar Strabo and others and especially in Diodorus Siculus the greatest Antiquary perhaps that ever was who speaking of the Druids which he calls Sarovides in France saith thus There be also amongst them certain Philosophers and Theologians that are exceedingly honoured whom they also use as Prophets These men by their skill in Augury and Inspection into the Bowels of Beasts sacrificed foretel what is to come and have the multitude in obedience to them and a little after It is a custom amongst them that no man may sacrifice without a Philosopher because say they men ought not to present their Thanks to the Gods but by them that know the Divine Nature and are as it were of the same language with them and that all good things ought by such as these to be prayed for B. I can hardly believe that those Druids were very skilful either in Natural Philosophy or Moral A. Nor I for they held and taught the Transmigration of Souls from one Body to another as did Pythagoras which Opinion whether they took from him or he from them I cannot tell What were the Magi in Persia but Philosophers and Astrologers You know how they came to find our Saviour by the Conduct of a Star either from Persia it self or from some Country more Eastward than Judea were not these in great Authority in their Country And are they not in most part of Christendom thought to have been Kings Aegypt hath been thought by many the most Antient Kingdom and Nation of the world and their Priests had the greatest power in Civil Affairs that any Subject ever had in any Nation And what were they but Philosophers and Divines Concerning whom the same Diodorus Siculus saies thus The whole Country of Egypt being divided into three parts the Body of the Priests have One as being of most credit with the people both for their Devotions towards the Gods and also for their Understanding gotten by Education and presently after for generally those men in the greatest Affairs of all the King's Councellors partly Executing and partly Informirg and Advising foretelling him also by their skill in Astrology and Art in the Inspection of Sacrifices the things that are to come and reading to him out of their Holy Books such of the Actions there recorded as are profitable for him to know 'T is not there as in Greece one man or one woman that has thé Priesthood but they are many that attend the Honours and Sacrifices of the Gods and leave the same Imployment to their posterity which next to the King have the greatest Power and Authority Concerning the Judicature amongst the Aegyptians he saith thus From out of the most eminent Cities Hieropolis Thebes and Memphis they chuse Judges which are Council not inferiour to that of Areopagus in Athens or that of the Senate in Lacedoemon when they are met being in number thirty they chuse one from among themselves to be Chief Justice and the City whereof he is sendeth another in his place This Chief Justice wore about his neck hung in a gold Chain a Jewel of precious Stones the name of which Jewel was Truth which when the Chief Justice had put on then began the Pleading c. And when the Judges had agreed on the Sentence then did the Chief Justice put this Jewel of Truth on one of the Pleas. You see now what power was acquired in Civil matters by the conjuncture of Philosophy and Divinity Let us come now to the
such a course and what hopes He had of Money Men Arms Fortified Places Shipping Council and Military Offices sufficient for such an Enterprize against the Parliament that had Men and Money as much at Command as the City of London and other Corporation Towns were able to furnish which was more than they needed And for the Men they should set forth for Soldiers they were almost all of them spightfully bent against the King and his whole Party whom they took to be either Papists or Flatterers of the King or that had design'd to raise their Fortunes by the Plunder of the City and other Corporation Towns and though I believe not that they were more valiant than other Men nor that they had so much Experience in the War as to be accounted good Soldiers yet they had that in them which in time of Battle is more conducing to Victory than Valor and Experience both together and that was Spight And for Arms they had in their hands the chief Magazines the Tower of London and Kingston upon Hull besides most of the Powder and Shot that lay in several Towns for the use of the Trained Bands Fortified places there were not many then in England and most of them in the hands of the Parliament The King's Fleet was wholly in their Command under the Earl of Warwick Counsellors they needed no more than such as were of their own Body so that the King was every way inferior to them except it were perhaps in Officers A. I cannot compare their chief Officers for the Parliament The Earl of Essex after the Parliament had Voted the War was made General of all their Forces both in England and Ireland from whom all other Commanders were to receive their Commissions B. What moved them to make the Earl of Essex General And for what cause was the Earl of Essex so displeased with the King as to accept that Office A. I do not certainly know what to answer to either of those Questions but the Earl of Essex had been in the Wars abroad and wanted neither Experience Judgment nor Courage to perform such an undertaking and besides that you have heard I believe how great a Darling of the People his Father had been before him and what Honour he gad gotten by the success of his Enterprize upon Cales and in some other Military Actions To which I may add That this Earl himself was not held by the People to be so great a Favourite at Court as that they might not trust him with their Army against the King and by this you may perhaps conjecture the cause for which the Parliament made choice of him for General B. But why did they think him discontented with the Court A. I know not that nor indeed that he was so he came to Court as other Noblemen did when occasion was to wait upon the King but had no Office till a little before this time to oblige him to be there continually but I believe verily that the unfortunateness of his Marriage had so discountenanced his Conversation with Ladies that the Court could not be his proper Element unless he had had some extraordinary favour there to balance that calamity For particular discontent from the King or intention of revenge for any supposed disgrace I think he had none nor that he was any ways addicted to Presbyterian Doctrines or other Phanatic Tenets in Church or State saving only that he was carried away with the stream in a manner of the whole Nation to think that England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy not considering that the Supreme Power must always be absolute whether it be in the King or in the Parliament B. Who was General of the King's Army A. None yet but Himself nor indeed had He yet any Army but there coming to him at that time two Nephews the Princes Rupert and Maurice He put the Command of His Horse into the hands of Prince Rupert a man than whom no man living has a better courage nor was more active and diligent in prosecuting his Commission and though but a young man then was not without experience in the conducting of Soldiers as having been an Actor in part of his Father's Wars in Germany B. But how could the King find Money to pay such an Army as was necessary for Him against the Parliament A. Neither the King nor Parliament had much Money at that time in their own hands but were fain to rely upon the Benevolence of those that took their parts wherein I confess the Parliament had a mighty great advantage Those that helped the King in that kind were only Lords and Gentlemen which not approving the proceedings of the Parliament were willing to undertake the payment every one of a certain number of Horse which cannot be thought any very great assistance the persons that paid them being so few for other Moneys that the King then had I have not heard of any but what he borrow'd upon Jewels in the Low-Countries whereas the Parliament had a very plentiful Contribution not only from London but generally from their Faction in all other places of England upon certain Propositions published by the Lords and Commons in June 1642. at which time they had newly Voted That the King intended to make War upon them for bringing in of Money or Plate to maintain Horse and Horse-men and to buy Arms for the preservation of the public Peace and for the defence of the King and both Houses of Parliament for the Repaying of which Money and Plate they were to have the Public Faith B. What Public Faith is there when there is no Public What is it that can be call'd Public in a Civil War without the King A. The truth is the Security was nothing worth but serv'd well enough to gull those seditious Blockheads that were more fond of change than either of their peace or profit having by this means gotten Contributions from those that were the well-affected to their Cause they made use of it afterwards to force the like Contribution from others for in November following they made an Ordinance for Assessing also of those that had not contributed then or had contributed but not proportionably to their Estates And yet this was contrary to what the Parliament promised and declared in the Propositions themselves for they declared in the first Proposition That no man's Affection should be measured by the proportion of his Offer so that he expressed his good will to the Service in any proportion whatsoever Besides this in the beginning of March following they made an Ordinance to Levy weekly a great Sum of Money upon every County City Town Place and Person of any Estate almost in England which weekly Sum as may appear by the Ordinance it self printed and published in March 1642 by Order of both Houses comes to almost 33000 l. and consequently to above 1700000 l. for the year They had besides all this the profits of the King's Lands
and Woods and whatsoever was remaining unpaid of any Subsidy formerly granted Him and the Tunnage and Poundage usually received by the King besides the profit of the Sequestration of great persons whom they pleas'd to Vote Delinquents and the profits of the Bishops Lands which â—troversie understood not the Reasons of either Party and for those that by Ambition were once set upon the Enterprize of changing the Government they cared not much what was Reason and Justice in the Cause but what Strength they might procure by reducing the multitude with Remonstrances from the Parliament-House or by Sermons in the Churches and to their Petitions I would not have had any answer at all more than this That if they would disband their Army and put themselves upon his Mercy they should find Him more Gracious than they expected A. That had been a gallant answer indeed if it had proceeded from Him after some extraordinary great Victory in Battel or some extraordinary assurance of a Victory at last in the whole War B. Why what could have hapned to Him worse than at length He suffered notwithstanding His gentle answer and all His reasonable Declarations A. Nothing but who knew that B. Any Man might see that He was never like to be restor'd to His Right without Victory and such His Statutes being known to the People would have brought to His assistance many more hands than all the arguments of Law or force of Eloquence couched in Declarations and other Writings could have done by far and I wonder what kind of Men they were that hindered the King from taking this Resolution A. You may know by the Declarations themselves which are very long and full of Quotations of Records and of Cases formerly Reported that the Penners of them were either Lawyers by Profession or such Gentlemen as had the ambition to be thought so Besides I told you before that those which were then likeliest to have their counsel asked in this business were averse to absolute Monarchy as also to absolute Democracy or Aristocracy all which Governments they esteemed Tyranny and were in love with Monarchy which they us'd to praise by the name of mixt Monarchy though it were indeed nothing else but pure Anarchy and those Men whose Pens the King most us'd in these Controversies of Law and Politics were such if I have not been misinformed as having been Members of this Parliament had declaim'd against Ship-money and other Extra-Parliamentary Taxes as much as any but when they saw the Parliament grow higher in their demands than they thought they would have done went over to the King's Party B. Who were those A. It is not necessary to name any Man seeing I have undertaken only a short Narration of the Follies and other Faults of Men during this trouble but not by naming of persons to give you or any man else occasion to esteem them the less now the faults on all sides have been forgiven B. When the Business was brought to this height by levying of Soldiers and seizing on the Navy Arms and other Provisions on both sides that no Man was so blind as not to see they were in an estate of War one against another why did not the King by Proclamation or Message according to his undoubted Right Dissolve the Parliament and thereby diminish in some part the Authority of their Levies and of other their unjust Ordinances A. You have forgotten that I told you that the King Himself by a Bill that He passed at the same time when He passed the Bill for the Execution of the Earl of Strafford had given them Authority to hold the Parliament till they should by consent of both Houses dissolve themselves If therefore He had by any Proclamation or Message to the Houses dissolv'd them they would to their former Defamations of His Majesties actions have added this That He was a Breaker of His Word and not only in Contempt of Him have continued their Session but also have made advantage of it to the increase and strengthning of their own Party B. Would not the King 's raising of an Army against them be interpreted as a purpose to dissolve them by force And was it not as great a breach of promise to scatter them by force as to dissolve them by Proclamation Besides I cannot conceive that the passing of that Act was otherwise intended than conditionally so long as they should not ordain any thing contrary to the Sovereign Right of the King which condition they had already by many of their Ordinances broken and I think that even by the Law of Equity which is the unalterable Law of Nature a man that has the Sovereign Power cannot if he would give away the right of any thing which is necessary for him to retain for the good Government of his Subjects unless he do it in express words saying That he will have the Sovereign Power no longer for the giving away that which by consequence only draws the Sovereignty along with it is not I think a giving away of the Sovereignty but an error such as works nothing but an invalidity in the Grant it self And such was the King's passing this Bill for the continuing of the Parliament as long as the Two Houses pleas'd But now that the War was resolv'd on on both sides what needed any more dispute in writings A. I know not what need they had but on both sides they thought it needful to hinder one another as much as they could from levying of Soldiers and therefore the King did set forth Declarations in Print to make the people know that they ought not to obey the Officers of the new Militia set up by the Ordinance of Parliament and also to let them see the Legality of His own Commissions of Array and the Parliament on their part did the like to justifie to the people the said Ordinance and to make the Commission of Array appear unlawful B. When the Parliament were Levying of Soldiers was it not lawful for the King to Levy Soldiers to defend Himself and His Right though there had been no other Title for it but His own preservation and that the name of Commission of Array had never been heard of A. For my part I think there cannot be a better Title for War than the defence of a Man 's own Right but the People at that time thought nothing lawful for the King to do for which there was not some Statute made by Parliament For the Lawyers I mean the Judges of the Courts of Westminster and some few others though but Advocates yet of great Reputation for their skill in the Common Laws and Statutes of England had infected most of the Gentry of England with their Maxims and Cases prejudg'd which they call Precedents and made them think so well of their own knowledge in the Law that they were glad of this occasion to shew it against the King and thereby to gain a Reputation with the Parliament of being good
Patriots and wise Statesmen B. What was this Commission of Array A. King William the Conqueror had gotten into his hands by Victory all the Lands in England of which he disposed some part as Forests and Chaces for his own Recreation and some part to Lords and Gentlemen that had assisted him or were to assist him in the Wars upon which he laid a charge of service in his Wars some with more Men and some with less according to the Lands he had given them whereby when the King sent Men unto them with Commission to make use of their Service they were obliged to appear with Arms and to accompany the King to the Wars for a certain time at their own Charges and such were the Commissions by which this King did then make his Levies B. Why then was it not Legal A. No doubt but it was Legal but what did that amount to with Men that were already resolv'd to acknowledge for Law nothing that was against their design of abolishing Monarchy and placing a sovereign and absolute Arbitrary Power in the House of Commons B. To destroy Monarchy and set up the House of Commons are two Businesses A. They found it so at last but did not think it so then B. Let us come now to the Military power A. I intended only the Story of their Injustice Impudence and Hypocrisie therefore for the proceeding of the War I refer you to the History thereof written at large in English I shall only make use of such a Thread as is necessary for the filling up of such Knavery and Folly also as I shall observe in their several Actions From York the King went to Hull where was His Magazine of Arms for the Northern Parts of Ergland to try if they would admit Him the Parliament had made Sir John Hotham Governor of the Town who caused the Gates to be shut and preseating himself upon the walls flatly denied Him entrance for which the King caused him to be preclam'd Traytor and sent a Message to the Parliament to know if they own'd the Actions B. Upon what grounds A. Their pretence was this That neither this nor any other Town in England was otherwise the King 's than in Trust for the People of England B. I cannot see the force of this Argument We represent the People Ergo all that the People has is ours The Mayor of Hull did represent the King Is therefore all the King had in Hull the Mayor's The People of England may be represented with Limitations as to deliver a Petition or the like does it follow that they who deliver the Petition have Right to all the Towns in England When began this Parliament to be a Representative of England Was it November 3. 1640 Who was it the day before that had the Right to keep the King out of Hull and possess it for themselves For there was then no Parliament whose was Hull then A. I think it was the King's not only because it was called the King's Town upon Hull but because the King Himself did then and ever represent the Person of the People of England If He did not who then did the Parliament having no Being B. They might perhaps say the People had then no Representative A. Then there was no Commonwealth and consequently all the Towns of England being the Peoples you and I and any Man else might have put in for his share You may see by this what weak People they were that were carried into the Rebellion by such weak reasonings as this Parliament used and how impudent they were that did put such Fallacies upon them B. Surely they were such as were esteem'd the wisest Men in England being upon that account chosen to be the Parliament A. And were they also esteem'd the wisest Men of England that chose them B. I cannot tell that for I know it is usual with the Freeholders in the Counties and the Tradesmen in the Cities and Burroughs to choose as near as they can such as are most repugnant to the giving of Subsidies A. The King in the beginning of August after He had summon'd Hull and tried some of the Counties thereabout what they would do for Him set up His Standard at Nottingham but there came not in thither Men enow to make an Army sufficient to give Battel to the Earl of Essex From thence He went to Shrewsbery where He was quickly furnished and appointing the Earl of Lindsey to be General He resolv'd to march towards London The Earl of Essex was at Worcester with the Parliament Army making no offer to stop Him in His passage but as soon as He was gone by marched close after him The King therefore to avoid being inclosed between the Army of the Earl of Essex and the City of London turned upon him and gave him Battel at Edge-hill where though he got not an intire Victory yet he had the better if either had the better and had certainly the fruit of a Victory which was to march on in his intended way towards London in which the next morning he took Banbury Castle and from thence went to Oxford and thence to Brentford where he gave a great Defeat to Three Regiments of the Parliaments Forces and so return'd to Oxford B. Why did not the King go on from Brentford A. The Parliament upon the first notice of the King 's marching from Shrewsbery caused all the Trained Bands and the Auxiliaries of the City of London which were so frighted as to shut up all their shops to be drawn forth so that there was a complete and numerous Army ready for the Earl of Essex that was crept into London just at that time to head it and this was it that made the King retire to Oxford In the beginning of February after Prince Rupert took Cirencestâ—r from the Parliament with many Prisoners and many Arms for it was newly made a Magazine and thus stood the business between the King 's and the Parliaments Forces The Parliament in the mean time caused a Line of Communication to be made about London and the Suburbs of 12 miles in compass and constituted a Committee for the Association and the putting into a posture of defence the Counties of Essex Cambridge Suffolk and some others and one of those Commissioners was Oliver Cromwel from which employment he came to his following greatness B. What was done during this time in other parts of the Country A. In the West the Earl of Stamford had the employment of putting in execution the Ordinance of Parliament for the Militia and Sir Ralph Hopton for the King executed the Commission of Array Between those two was fought a Battel at Liscard in Cornwal where Sir Ralph Hopton had the Victory and presently took a Town called Saltash with many Arms much Ordnance and many Prisoners Sir William Waller in the mean time seized Winchester and Chichester for the Parliament In the North for the Commission of Array my Lord of Newcastle and
for the Militia of the Parliament was my Lord Fairfax My Lord of Newcastle took from the Parliament Tadcaster in which were a great part of the Parliaments Forces for that County and had made himself in a manner Master of all the North. About this time that is to say in February the Queen landed at Burlington and was conducted by my Lord of Newcastle and the Marquis of Montross to York and not long after to the King Divers other little Advantages besides these had the King's Party of the Parliaments in the North. There hapned also between the Militia of the Parliament the Commission of Array in Staffordshire under my Lord Brook for the Parliament and my Lord of Northampton for the King great contention wherein both these Commanders were slain for my Lord Brook besieging Lichfield-Close was kill'd with a shot notwithstanding which they gave not over the Siege till they were Masters of the Close But presently after my Lord of Northamâ—ton besâ—â—ed 〈◊〉 again for the King which to relieve Sir William Brereton and Sir John Gell advanced towards Lichfield and were met at Hopton-heath by the Earl of Northampton and routed The Earl himself was slain but his Forces with Victory return'd to the Siege again and shortly after seconded by Prince Rupert who was then abroad in that Country carried the place These were the chief Actions of this year 1642. wherein the King's Party had not much the worse B. But the Parliament had now a better Army insomuch that if the Earl of Essex had immediately followed the King to Oxford not yet well fortified he might in all likelihood have taken it for he could not want either Men or Ammunition whereof the City of London which was wholly at the Parliaments devotion had store enough A. I cannot judge of that but this is manifest considering the estate the King was in at his first marching from York when he had neither Money nor Men nor Arms enough to put him in hope of Victory that this year take it altogether was very prosperous B. But what great Folly or Wickedness do you observe in the Parliaments Actions for this first year A. All that can be said against them in that point will be excus'd with the pretext of War and come under one Name of Rebellion saving that when they summoned any Town it was in the Name of the King and Parliament The King being in the contrary Army and many times beating them from the Siege I do not see how the right of War can justifie such Impudence as that But they pretended that the King was always virtually in the Two Houses of Parliament making a distinction between his Person Natural and Politique which made the Impudence the greater besides the folly of it For this was but an University Quibble such as Boys make use of in maintaining in the Schools such Tencts as they cannot otherwise defend In the end of this year they solicited also the Scots to enter England with an Army to suppress the power of the Earl of Newcastle in the North which was a plain Confession that the Parliament Forces were at this time inferior to the King 's and most men thought that if the Earl of Newcastle had then marched Southward and joined his Forces with the King 's that most of the Members of Parliament would have fled out of England In the beginning of 1643. the Parliament seeing the Earl of Newcastle's power in the North grown formidable sent to the Scots to hire them to an Invasion of England and to complement them in the mean time made a Covenant among themselves such as the Scots before had made against Episcopacy and demolished Crosses and Church-windows such as had in them any Images of Saints throughout all England Also in the middle of the year they made a Solemn League with the Nation which was called The Solemn League and Covenant B. Are not the Scots as properly to be called Foreigners as the Irish seeing then they persecuted the Earl of Strafford even to death for advising the King to make use of Irish Forces against the Parliament with what face could they call in a Scotch Army against the King A. The King's Party might easily here have discern'd their design to make themselves absolute Masters of the Kingdom and to dethrone the King Another great Impudence or rather a Bestial Incivility it was of theirs That they Voted the Queen a Traytor for helping the King with some Ammunition and English Forces from Holland B. Was it possible that all this could be done and Men not see that Papers and Declarations must be useless And that nothing could satisfie them but the Deposing of the King and setting up of themselves in his place A. Yes very possible for who was there of them though knowing that the King had the Sovereign Power that knew the Essential Rights of Sovereignty They dreamt of a mixt Power of the King and the Two Houses That it was a divided Power in which there could be no Peace was above their understanding therefore they were always urging the King to Declarations and Treaties for fear of subjecting themselves to the King in an absolute obedience which increased the hope and courage of the Rebels but did the King little good for the People either understand not or will not trouble themselves with Controversies in writing but rather by his compliance by Messages go away with an opinion That the Parliament was likely to have the Victory in the War Besides seeing that the Penners and Contrivers of those Papers were formerly Members of the Parliament and of another mind and now revolted from the Parliament because they could not bear that sway in the House which they expected men were apt to think they believed not what they wrote As for Military Actions to begin at the Head Quarters Prince Rupert took Brinningram a Garison of the Parliaments In July after the King's Forces had a great Victory over the Parliaments near the Devizes on Roundway-down where they took 2000 Prisoners four Brass Peeces of Ordnance 28 Colours and all their Baggage And shortly after Bristol was surrendred to Prince Rupert for the King and the King himself marching into the West took from the Parliament many other considerable places But this good Fortune was not a little allay'd by his besieging of Glocester which after it was reliev'd to the last gasp was reliev'd by the Earl of Essex whose Army was before greatly wasted but now recruited with Train'd Bands and Apprentices of London B. It seems not only by this but also by many Examples in History That there can hardly arise a long or dangerous Rebellion that has not some such overgrown City with an Army or two in its belly to foment it A. Nay more those great Capital Cities when Rebellion is upon pretence of Grievances must needs be of the Rebel Party because the Grievances are for Taxes to which Citizens that is Merchants whose profession
of granting it they made an Ordinance That the Commanders of the Militia of London in case the King should attempt to come within the Line of Communication should raise what Forces they thought fit to suppress Tumults to apprehend such as came with him and to secure i.e. to imprison his Person from danger If the King had adventured to come and had been imprisoned what would the Parliament have done with him They had dethron'd him by their Votes and therefore could have no security while he lived though in Prison it may be they would not have put him to death by a High Court of Justice publicly but secretly some other way B. He should have attempted to get beyond Sea A. That had been from Oxford very difficult Besides it was generally believ'd that the Scotch Army had promis'd him that not only His Majesty but also his Friends that should come with him should be in their Army safe not only for their persons but also for their honours and consciences 'T is a pretty trick when the Army and the particular Soldiers of that Army are different things to make the Soldiers promise what the Army means not to perform July 11. the Parliament sent their Propositions to the King at Newcastle which Propositions they pretended to be the only way to a settled and well-grounded Peace They were brought by the Earl of Pembroke the Earl of Suffolk Sir VValter Earl Sir John Hyppesley Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Robinson whom the King asked If they had power to treat And when they said No he ask'd why they might not as well have been sent by a Trumpeter The propositions were the same dethroning ones which they used to send and therefore the King would not assent to them Nor did the Scots swallow them at first but made some exceptions against them only it seems to make the Parliament perceive they meant not to put the King into their hands gratis and so at last the bargain was made between them and upon payment of 200000 l. the King was put into the hands of the Commissioners which the English Parliament sent down to receive him B. What a vile Complexion hath this Action compounded of feigned Religion and very covetousness cowardize perjury and treachery A. Now the War that seemed so just by many unseemly things is ended you will see almost nothing in these Rebels but baseness and falseness besides their folly By this time the Parliament had taken in all the rest of the Kings Garisons whereof the last was Pendennis Castle whither Duke Hamilton had been sent Prisoner by the King B. What was done during this time in Ireland and Scotland A. In Ireland there had been a Peace made by order from His Majesty for a time which by divisions by the Irish was ill kept The Popish Party the Pope's Nuncio being then there took this to be the time for delivering themselves from their subjection to the English besides the time of the Peace was now expired B. How were they subject to the English more than the English to the Irish They were subject to the King of England but so also were the English to the King of Ireland A. The distinction is somewhat too subtil for common understanding In Scotland the Marquis of Montross for the King with a very few men had miraculously with Victories over-run all Scotland where many of his Forces out of too much security were permitted to be absent for a while of which the Enemy having intelligence suddenly came upon them and forced them to flie back into the High-lands to recruit where he bagan to recover strength when the King commanded him being then in the hands of the Scots at Newcastle to disband and he departed from Scoâ—land by Sea In the end of the same year 1646. the Parliament caused the King's great Seal to be broken Also the King was brought to Holmeby and there kept by the Parliaments Commissioners and here was an end of that War as to England and Scotland but not to Ireland About this time also dyed the Earl of Essex whom the Parliament had discarded B. Now that there was Peace in England and the King in Prison in whom was the Sovereign Power A. The Right was certainly in the King but the exercise was yet in no body but contended for as in a game at Cards without fighting both the years 1647. 1648. between the Parliament and Oliver Cromwel Lieutenant General to Sir Thomas Fairfax You must know that when King Henry VIII abolished the Pope's Authority here and took upon him to be the Head of the Church the Bishops as they could not resist him so neither were they discontented with it For whereas the Pope before allowed not the Bishops to claim Jurisdiction in their Diocesses Jure Divino that is of Right immediately from God but by the Gift and Authority of the Pope now that the Pope was outed they made no doubt but the divine Right was in themselves After this the City of Geneva and divers other places beyond Sea having revolted from the Papacy set up Presbyteries for the Government of their several Churches and divers English Scholars that went beyond Sea during the Persecution of Queen Mary were much taken with this Government and at their return in the time of Q. Elizabeth and ever since have endeavor'd to the great trouble of the Church and Nation to set up that Government here wherein they might domineer and applaud their own Wit and Learning And these took upon them not only a Divine Right but also a Divine Inspiration and having been connived at and countenanced sometimes in their frequent Preaching they introduced many strange and many pernicious Doctrines out-doing the Reformation as they pretended both of Luther and Calvin receding from the former Divinity or Church-Philosophy for Religion is another thing as much as Luther and Calvin had receded from the Pope and distracted their Auditors into a great number of Sects as Brownists Anabaptists Independants Fifth-Monarchy Men Quakers and divers others all commonly called by the name of Fanaticks insomuch as there was no so dangerous an Enemy to the Presbyterians as this Brood of their own hatching These were Cromwel's best Cards whereof he had a very great number in the Army and some in the House whereof he himself was thought one though he were nothing certain but applying himself always to the Faction that was strongest was of a colour like it There was in the Army a great number if not most part that aimed only at Rapine and sharing the Lands and Goods of their Enemies and these also upon the opinion they had of Cromwel's Valor and Conduct thought they could not any way better arrive at their Ends than by adhering to him Lastly In the Parliament it self though not the major part yet a considerable number were Fanaticks enow to put in doubts and cause delay in the Resolutions of the House and sometimes also by advantages of a thin
taken and not long after sent to London but Cromwel marched to Edenburrough and there by the help of the Faction which was contrary to Hamilton's he made sure not to be hindred in his Designs the first whereof was to take away the King's life by the hand of the Parliament whilest these things passed in the North the Parliament Cromwel being away came to it self and recalling their Vote of Non-Addresses sent to the King new Propositions somewhat but not much easier than the former and upon the King's Answer to them they sent Commissioners to treat with him at Neaport in the Isle of Wight where they so long dodged with him about Trisles that Cromwel was come to London before they had done to the Kings destruction for the Army was now wholly at the Devotion of Cromwel who set the Adjutators on work to make a Remonstrance to the House of Commons wherein they require 1. That the King be brought to Justice 2. That the Prince and Duke of York be summon'd to appear at a day appointed and proceeded with according as they should give satisfaction 3. That the Parliament settle the future Government and set a reasonable period to their own sitting and make certain future Parliaments Annual or Biennial 4. That a competent number of the Kings chief Instruments be executed and this to be done both by the House of Commons and by a General agreement of the people testified by their Subscriptions Nor did they stay for an Answer but presently set a Guard of Soldiers at the Parliament House Door and other Soldiers in Westminster-Hast suffering none to go into the House but such as would serve their turns all others were frighted away or made Prisoners and some upon divers Quarrels suspended About ninety of them because they had refused to vote against the Scots and others because they had voted against the Vote of Non-Addresses and the rest were a House for Cromwel The Phanaticks also in the City being countenanced by the Army pack a new Common-Council whereof any forty was to be above the Mayor and their first work was to frame a Petition for Justice against the Xing which Tichboures the Mayor involving the City in the Regicide delivered to the Parliament At the same time with like violence they took the King from Newport in the Isle of Wight to Hurst Castle till things were ready for His Tryal the Parliament in the mean time to avoid Perjury by an Ordinance declar'd void the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance and presently after made another to bring the King to his Tryal B. This is a piece of Law that I understood not before that when many men swear singly they may when they are Assembled if they please absolve themselves A. The Ordinance being drawn up was brought into the House where after three several Readings it was Voted That the Lords and Commons of England Assembled in Parliament do declare That by the Fundamental Laws of the Realm it is Treason in the King of England to levy War against the Parliament And this Vote was sent up to the Lords and they denying their consent the Commons in Anger made another Vote That all Members of Committees should proceed and act in any Ordinance whether the Lords concurr'd or no and that the People under God are the Original of all just Power and that the House of Commons have the Supreme-Power of the Nation and that whatsoever the House of Commons Enacted is Law All this passed nemine contradicente B. These Propositions fight not only against a King of England but against all the Kings of the World It were good they thought on 't but yet I believe that under God the Original of all Laws was in the People A. But the People for them and their heirs by consent and Oaths have long ago put the Supreme Power of the Nation into the hands of their Kings for them and their Heirs and consequently into the hands of this King their known and lawful heir B. But does not the Parliament represent the People A. Yes to some purposes as to put up Petitions to the King when they have leave and are griev'd but not to make a grievance of the Kings Power Besides the Parliament never represents the People but when the King calls them Is it to be imagined that he calls a Parliament to depose himself Put the case every County and Burrough should have given for a Benevolence a sum of Money and that every County meeting in their County Court or else-where and that every Burrough in their Town-Hall should have chosen certain men to carry their several sums respectively to the Parliament had not these men represented the whole Nation B. Yes no doubt A. Do you think the Parliament would have thought it reasonable to be called to an account by this Representative B. No sure and yet I must confess the Case is the same A. This Ordinance contained First a Summary of the Charge against the King in substance this That not content with the Incroachments of his Predecessors upon the freedom of the People he had design'd to set up a Tyrannical Power and to that end had rais'd and maintain'd in the Land a Civil War against the Parliament whereby the Country hath been miserably wasted the Publick Treasure exhausted thousands of people murdered and infinite other mischiefs committed Secondly A Constitution passed of a High Court of Justice that is of a certain number of Commissioners of whom any twenty had power to try the King and proceed to Sentence according to the Merit of the Cause and see it speedily executed The Commissioners met on Saturday January 20. in Westminster-Hall and the King was brought before them sitting in a Chair He heard the Charge read but denied to plead to it either Guilty or not Guilty till he should know by what lawful Authority he was brought thither The President told him that the Parliament affirm'd their own Authority and the King persevered in his refusal to plead though many words passed between him and the President yet this is the sum of all on Monday January 22. the Court met again and the Sollicitor moved that if the King persisted in denying the Authority of the Court the Charge might be taken pro confesso but the King still denyed their Authority They met again January 23. and then the Sollicitor moved the Court for Judgment whereupon the King was requir'd to give his Final Answer which was again a denyal of their Authority Lastly They met again January 27. where the King then desir'd to be heard before the Lords and Commons in the Painted Chamber and promising after that to abide the Judgment of the Court the Commissioners retir'd for half an hour to consider of it and then returning caused the King again to be brought to the Bar and told him that what he propos'd was but another denyal of the Courts Jutisdiction and that if he had no more to say they
banished also from within 20 Miles of London all the loyal Party forbidding every one of them to depart more than five miles from his dwelling house B. They meant perhaps to have them ready if need were for a Massacre But what did the Scots in this time A. They were considering of the Officers of the Army which they were levying for the King how they might exclude from Command all such as had loyally serv'd his now Majesty's Father and all Independents and all such as commanded in Duke Hamilton's Army And these were the main things which passed this year The Marquess of Montross that had in the year 1645. with a few men and in a little time done things almost incredible against the late King's Enemies in Scotland landed now again in the beginning of the year 1650. in the North of Scotland with Commission from the present King hoping to do him as good service as he had formerly done his Father but the case was alter'd for the Scotch Forces were then in England in the service of the Parliament whereas now they were in Scotland and many more for their intended Invasion newly rais'd Besides the Souldiers which the Marquess brought over were few and Forreigners nor did the High-landers come in to him as he expected insomuch as he was soon defeated and shortly after taken and with more spightful usage than revenge requir'd Executed by the Covenanters at Edinborough May the 2d B. What good could the King expect from joining with these men who during the Treaty discover'd sâ— much malice to him in one of his one of his best Subjects A. No doubt their Church-men being then prevalent they would have done as much so this King as the English Parliament had done to his Father it they could have gotten by it that which they foolishly aspir'd to the Government of the Nation I do not believe that the Independents were worse than the Presbyterians both the one and the other were resolv'd to destroy whatsoever should stand in the way to their Ambition but necessity made the King pass over both this and many other Indignities from them rather than suffer the pursuit of his right in England to cool and be little better than extinguished B. Indeed I believe the Kingdom if suffered to become an old Debt will hardly ever be recover'd Besides the King was sure where-ever the Victory lighted he could lose nothing in the War but Enemies A. About the time of Montrosses death which was in May Cromwel was yet in Ireland and his work unfinished but finding or by his Friends advertis'd that his presence in the Expedition now preparing against the Scots would be necessary to his Design sent to the Rump to know their pleasure concerning his return But for all that he knew or thought it was not necessary to stay for their Answer but came away and arriv'd at London the sixth of June following and was welcom'd by the Rump Now had General Fairfax who was truly what he pretended to be a Presbyterian been so Catechis'd by the Presbyterian Ministers here that he refused to fight against the Brethren in Scotland nor did the Rump nor Cromwel go about to rectifie his Conscience in that point And thus Fairfax laying down his Commission Cromwel was now made General of all the Forces in England and Ireland which was another step to the Soveraign Power B. Where was the King A. In Scotland newly come over he landed in the North and was honourably conducted to Edinborough though all things was not yet well agreed upon between the Scots and him for he had yielded to as hard Conditions as the late King had yielded to in the Isle of Wight yet they had still somewhat to add till the King enduring no more departed from them towards the North again But they sent Messengers after him to pray him to return but they furnished these Messengers with strength enough to bring him back if he should have refus'd In fine they agreed but would not suffer the King or any Royalist to have Command in the Army B. The sum of all is the King was their Prisoner A. Cromwel from Berwick sends a Declaration to the Scots telling them he had no Quarrel against the people of Scotland but against the malignant Party that had brought in the King to the disturbance of the Peace between the two Nations and that he was willing by Conference to give and receive satisfaction or to decide the Justice of the Cause by Battel To which the Scots answering declare That they will not prosecute the Kings Interest before and without his acknowledgment of the sins of his House and his former ways and satisfaction given to Gods people in both Kingdoms Judge by this whether the present King was not in as bad a condition here as his Father was in the hands of the Presbyterians of England B. Presbyterians are every where the same they would fain be absolute Governours of all they converse with and have nothing to plead for it but that where they reign 't is God that reigns and no where else But I observe one strange demand that the King should acknowledg the sins of his House for I thought it had been certain from all Divines that no man was bound to acknowledg any mans sins but his own A. The King having yielded to all that the Church requir'd the Scots proceeded in their intended War Cromwel marched on to Edinborough provoking them all he could to Battel which they declining and provisions growing scarce in the English Army Cromwel retir'd to Dunbar despairing of success and intending by Sea or Land to get back into England And such was the condition which this General Cromwel so much magnified for Conduct had brought his Army to that all his Glories had ended in shame and punishment if Fortune's and the faults of his Enemies had not reliev'd him for as he retir'd the Scots follow'd him close all the way till within a mile of Dunbar There is a ridge of Hills that from beyond Edinborough goes winding to the Sea and crosses the High-way between Dunbar and Barwick at a Village called Copperspeith where the passage is so difficult that if the Scots had sent timely thither a very few men to guard it the English could never have passed for the Scots kept the Hills and needed not have fought but upon great advantage and were almost two to one Cromwel's Army was at the Foot of those Hills on the North side and there was a great Ditch or Channel of a Torrent between the Hills and it so that he could never have got home by Land nor without utter ruine of the Army attempted to ship it nor have stayed where he was for want of provisions Now Cromwel knowing the Pass was free and commanding a good Party of Horse and Foot to possess it it was necessary for the Scots to let them go whom they brag'd they had impoâ—â—ded er else to fight and
plainly told them they must sit no longer Richard's Authority and business in Town being thus at an end heretir'd into the Country where within a few days upon promise of the payment of his Debts which his Fathers Funeral had made great he signed a Resignation of his Protectorship B. To whom A. To no body But after ten days cessation of the Soveraignty some of the Rumpers that were in Town together with the old Speaker Mr. William Lenihall resolv'd among themselves and with Lambert Haslerig and other Officers who were also Rumpers in all 42 to go into the House which they did and were by the Army declar'd to be the Parliament There were also in Westminster-Hall at that time about their private business some few of those whom the Army had secluded in 1648. and were called the secluded Members These knowing themselves to have been Elected by the same Authority and having the same Right to sit attempted to get into the House but were kept out by the Soldiers The first Vote of the Rump reseated was That such persons as were heretofore Members of this Parliament and have not â—â—tten since the year 1648. shall not sit in this House till farther order of the Parliament And thus the Rump recover'd their Authority May the seventh 1659. which they lost in April 1653. B. Seeing there have been so many shiftings of the Supreme Authority I pray you for memories sake repeat them briefly in time and order A. First From 1640 to 1648. when the King was murthered the Soveraignty was disputed between King Charles the First and the Presbyterian Parliament 2ly From 1648 to 1653. the Power was in that part of the Parliament which voted the Tryal of the King and declar'd themselves without King or House of Lords to have the Supreme Authority of England and Ireland For there were in the long-Long-Parliament two Factions the Presbyterian and Independent The former whereof sought only the subjection of the King not his destruction and this part is it which was called the Rump 3ly From April the 20 to July the 4 the Supreme Power was in the Hands of a Council of State constituted by Cromwel 4ly From July the 4 to December the 12 of the same year it was in the Hands of Men called unto it by Cromwel whom he termed men of Fidelity and Integrity and made them a Parliament which was called in contempt of one of the Members Barebone's Parliament 5ly From December the 12 1653 to September the 3. 1658 it was in the hands of Oliver Cromwel with the Title of Protector 6ly From September 1658 to April the twenty fifth 1659. Richard Cromwel had it as Successor to his Father 7ly From April the twenty fifth 1659. to May the seventh of the same year it was no where 8ly From May the 7th 1659. the Rump which was turn'd out of Door 1653. recovered it again and did lose it again to the Committee of Safety and again recover it and again lose it to the right Owner B. By whom and by that Art came the Rump to be turn'd out the second time A. One would think them safe enough the Army in Scotland which when it was in London had helped Oliver to pull down the Rump submitted now beg'd pardon and promis'd Obedience The Souldiers in Town had their pay mended and the Commanders every where took the old Engagement whereby they had acknowledged their Authority heretofore they also received their Commissions in the House it self from the Speaker who was Generalissimo Fleetwood was made Lieutenant-General with such and so many limitations as were thought necessary by the Rump that remembred how they had been serv'd by their General Oliver Also Henry Cromwel Lord Lieutenant of Ireland having resign'd his Commission by Command returned into England But Lambert to whom as was said Oliver had promis'd the succession and as well as the Rump knew the way to the Protectorship by Oliver's own foot-steps was resolv'd to proceed in it upon the first opportunity which presented it self presently after Besides some Plots of Royalists whom after the old fashion they again persecuted there was an Insurrection made against them by Presbyterians in Cheshire headed by Sir G. Booth one of the secluded Members they were in number about 3000 and their pretence was for a Free-Parliament There was a great talk of another Rising or endeavour to Rise in Devonshire and Coâ—â—wâ—l at the same time To suppress Sir George Booth the Rump sent down more than a sufficient Army under Lambert which quickly defeated the Cheshire party and recover'd Chester Leverpool and all the other places they had seized divers of their Commanders in and after the battel were taken Prisoners whereof Sir George Booth himself was one This exploit done Lambert before his return caressed his Soldiers with an entertainment at his own house in York-shire and got their consent to a Petition to be made to the House that a General might be set up in the Army as being unfit that the Army should be judged by any power extrinsick to it self B. I do not see that unfitness A. Nor I. But it was as I have heard an action of Sir Henry Vane's But it so much displeased the Rump that they Voted that the having of more General 's in the Army than were already setled was unnecessary burthensom and dangerous to the Common-wealth B. This was not Oliver's method for though this Cheshire Victory had been as glorious as that of Oliver's at Dunbar yet it was not the Victory that made Oliver General but the resignation of Fairfax and the proffer of it to Cromwel by the Parliament A. But Lambert thought so well of himself as to expect it therefore at his return to London he and other Officers assembling at Wallingford-house drew their Petition into form and called it a representation wherein the chief point was to have a General with many other of less importance that were added And this they represented to the House October the 4th by Major General Desborough And this so far forth awed them as to teach them so much good manners as to promise to take it presently into debate which they did and October the 12th having recovered their Spirits Voted That the Commissions of Lambert Desborough and others of the Council at Wallingford-house should be void Item That the Army should be governed by a Commission to Fleet-wood Monk Haslerig Walton Morley and Overton till Feb. the 12th following and to make this good against the Force they expected from Lambert they ordered Haslerig and Morley to issue Warrants to such Officers as they could trust to bring their Soldiers next Morning into Westminster which was done somewhat too late for Lambert had first brought his Soldiers thither and beset the House and turn'd back the Speaker which was then coming to it but Haslerig's Forces marching about St. James's Park wall came into St. Margaret's Church-yard and so both Parties looked all day one upon another
like Enemies but offered not to fight whereby the Rump was put out of possession of the House and the Officers continued their meeting as before at Wallingford house there they chose from among themselves with some few of the City a Committee which they called The Committee of Safety whereof the chief were Lambert and Vane who with the advice of a General Council of Officers had Power to call Delinquents to Tryal to suppress Rebellions to treat with Foreign States c. You see now the Rump cut off and the Supreme Power which is charged with Salus Populi transferred to a Council of Officers and yet Lambert hopes for it at the end But one of their Limitations was That they should within six Weeks present to the Army a new Model of the Government If they had done so do you think they would have preser'd Lambert or any other to the Supreme Authority rather than themselves B. I think not When the Rump had put into Commission among a few others for the Government of the Army that is for the Government of the three Nations General Monk already Commander in chief of the Army in Scotland and that had done much greater things in this War than Lambert how durst they leave him out of this Committee of Safety or how could Lambert think that General Monk would forgive it and not endeavour to fasten the Rump again A. They thought not of him his Gallantry had been shown on remote Stages Ireland and Scotland his Ambition had not appeared here in their Contention for the Government but he had complied both with Richard and the Rump After General Monk had signified by Letter his dislike of the proceedings of Lambert and his Fellows they were much surpriz'd and began to think him more considerable than they had done but it was too late B. Why was his Army not too small for so great an Enterprize A. The General knew very well his own and their Forces both what they were then and how they were to be augmented and what generally City and Country wished for which was the Restitution of the King which to bring about there needed no more but to come with his Army though not very great to London to the doing whereof there was no obstacle but the Army with Lambert What could he do in this Case If he had declar'd presently for the King or for a free Parliament all the Armies in England would have joyned against him and assuming the Title of a Parliament would have furnished themselves with Money Gâ—neral Monk after he had thus quarrelled by his Letter with the Council of Officers he secur'd first those Officers of his own Army which were Anabaptists and therefore not to be trusted and put others into their places then drawing his Forces together march'd to Berwick Being there he indicted a Convention of the Scots of whom he desired That they would take order for the security of the Nation in his absence and raise some maintenance for his Army in their march The Convention promis'd for the security of the Nation their best endeavour and rais'd him a sum of money not great but enough for his purpose excusing themselves upon their present wants On the other side the Committee of Safety with the greatest and best part of their Army sent Lambert to oppose him but at the same time by divers Messages and Mediators urged him to a Treaty which he consented to and sent 3 Officers to London to treat with as many of theirs These six suddenly concluded without power from the General upon these Articles That the King be excluded a free State setled the Ministry and Universities encouraged with divers which the General liked not and imprisoned one of his Commissioners for exceeding his Commission whereupon another Treaty was agreed on of five to five But whilst these Treaties were in hand Haslerig a Member of the Rump seized on Portsmouth and the Soldiers sent by the Committee of Safety to reduce it instead of that entred into the Town and joyned with Haslerig Secondly the City renewed their Tumults for a free Parliament Thirdly the Lord Fair fax a Member also of the Rump and greatly favoured in York-shire was raising Forces there behind Lambert who being now between two Armies his Enemies would gladly have fought the General Fourthly there came news that Devon-shire and Cornwal were listing of Soldiers Lastly Lambert's Army wanting Money and sure they should not be furnished from the Council of Officers which had neither Authority nor Strength to levy money grew discontented and for their Free-Quarter were odious to the Northern Countries B. I wonder why the Scots were so ready to furnish General Monk with money for they were no Friends to the Rump A. I know not but I believe the Scots would have parted with a greater Sum rather than the English should not have gone together by the Ears among themselves The Council of Officers being now beset with so many Enemies produced speedily their Model of Government which was to have a free Parliament which should meet December 15 but with such Qualifications of no King no House of Lords as made the City more angry than before To send Soldiers into the West to suppress those that were rising there they durst not for fear of the City nor could they raise any other for want of money there remained nothing but to break and quitting Wallingford-house to shift for themselves This coming to the knowledge of their Army in the North they deserted Lambert and the Rumpers December 26 re-possessed the House B. Seeing the Rump was now reseated the business pretended by General Monk for his marching to London was at an end A. The Rump though seated was not well setled but in the midst of so many Tumults for a free Parliament had as much need of the General 's coming up now as before He therefore sent them word that because he thought them not yet secure enough he would come up to London with his Army which they not only accepted of but entreated him so to do and voted him for his service 1000 l. a year The General marching towards London the Country every where Petition'd him for a free Parliament The Rump to make room in London for his Army dislodg'd their own The General for all that had not let fall a word in all this time that could be taken for a Declaration of his Final Design B. How did the Rump revenge themselves on Lambert A. They never troubled him nor do I know any cause of their so gentle dealing with him But certainly Lambert was the ablest of any Officer they had to do them service when they should have means and need to imploy him After the General was come to London the Rump sent to the City for their part of a Tax of 100000 l. a month for six months according to an Act which the Rump had made formerly before their Disseisin by the Committee of
Safety But the City who were averse to the Rump and keen upon a free Parliament could not be brought to give their money to their Enemies and to purposes repugnant to their own whereupon the Rump sent Order to the General to break down the City Gates and their Portcullices and to imprison certain obstinate Citizens This he perform'd and it was the last service he did them About this time the Commission by which General Monk with others had the Government of the Army put into their hands by the Rump before the Usurpation of the Council of Officers came to expire which the present Rump renewed B. He was thereby the sixth part of the General of the whole Forces of the Common-wealth if I had been as the Rump he should have been sole General In such cases as this there cannot be a greater Vice than pinching Ambition should be liberal A. After the pulling down of the City Gates the General sent a Letter to the Rump to let them know that this service was much against his Nature and to put them in mind how well the City had serv'd the Parliament in the whole War B. Yes but for the City the Parliament could never have made the War nor the Rump ever have murdered the King A. The Rump considered not the Merit of the City nor the good nature of the General they were busie they were giving out Commissions making of Acts for Abjuration of the King and his Line and for the Olâ— Engagement and conferring with the City to get Money The General also desir'd to hear a Conference between some of the Rump and some of the secluded Members concerning the Justice of their Seclusion and of the hurt that could follow upon their re-admission and it was granted After long Conference the General finding the Rumps pretences unreasonable and ambitious declar'd himself with the City for a free Parliament and came to Westminster with the secluded Members whom he had appointed to meet and stay for him at Whitehall and re-placed them in the House among the Rumpers so that now the same Cattel that were in the House of Commons in 1640. except those that were dead and those that went from them to the late King at Oxford are all there again B. But this methinks was no good service to the King unless they had learnt better Principles A. They had learnt nothing the major part was now again Presbyterian 'T is true they were so grateful to General Monk as to make him General of all the Forces in the three Nations They did well also to make void the Engagement but it was because those Acts were made to the prejudice of their Party but recalled none of their own Rebellious Ordinances nor did any thing in order to the good of the present King but on the contrary they declar'd by a Vote that the late King began the War against his two Houses B. The two Houses considered as two Persons were they not two of the King's Subjects If a King raise an Army against his Subject is it lawful for the Subject to resist with force when as in this case he might have had Peace upon his submission A. They knew they had acted vilely and sottishly but because they had always a greater than ordinary wisdom and godliness they were loth to confess it The Presbyterians now saw their time to make a Confession of their Faith and presented it to the House of Commons to shew they had not changed their Principles which after six Readings in the House was voted to be printed and once a year to be read publickly in every Church B. I say again this re-establishing of the Long Parliament was no good service to the King A. Have a little patience they were re-established with two Conditions one to determine their sitting before the end of March another to send out Writs before their rising for new Elections B. That qualifies A. That brought in the King for few of the Long-Parliament the Country having felt the smart of their former service could get themselves chosen again This new Parliament began to sit in April 25. 1660. How soon these called in the King with what Joy and triumph he was receiv'd how earnestly His Majesty pressed the Parliament for the Act of Oblivion and how few were excepted out of it you know as well as I. B. But I have not yet observ'd in Presbyterians any Oblivion of the former principles we are but return'd to the state we were in at the beginning of the Sedition A. Not so for before that time though the Kings of England had the right of the Militia in virtue of the Soveraignty and without dispute and without any particular Act of Parliament directly to the purpose yet now after this bloody dispute the next which is the present Parliament in proper and express terms hath declar'd the same to be the right of the King only without either of his Houses of Parliament which Act is more instructive to the people than any Arguments drawn from the Title of Soveraignty and consequently fitter to disarm the ambition of all seditious Haranguers for the time to come B. Pray God it be so howsoever I must confess that this Parliament has done all that a Parliament can do for the security of our peace which I think also would be enough if our Preachers would take heed of instilling evil Principles into their Auditory I have seen in this Revolution a circular motion of the Soveraign Power through two Usurpers from the late King to this his Son for leaving out the power of the Council of Officers which was but temporary and no otherwise owned by them but in trust it moved from King Charles the First to the Long-Parliament from thence to the Rump from the Rump to Oliver Cromwel and then back again from Richard Cromwel to the Rump thence to the Long-Parliament and thence to King Charles the Second where long may it remain A. Amen And may he have as often as there shall be need such a General B. You have told me little of the General till now in the end but truly I think the bringing of his little Army entirely out of Scotland up to London was the greatest Stratagem that is extant in History FINIS