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A95372 A heavenly conference for Sions saints, to enlighten themselves, and teach their children. Together, with the saints beliefe. / By Iohn Turner, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, in Gardiners Lane, Westminster. Turner, John, 17th cent. 1645 (1645) Wing T3323; Thomason E1171_2; ESTC R208818 41,818 74

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maintenance the Ministers of the 1 Cor. 9. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 17 18. Heb. 7. 12. Phil 4. 10 Ro. 15. 27. Gal. 6. 6. Mat. 10. 9 10. Lu. 10. 7. 22. 25. Church of England live by Tithes Gleabs and Offerings c. When Christs Ministers must live by the free gift of the Church whereof they are if they receive for their Ministery any thing 6. In acts They of the Churches of England have a false Article in their Faith blasphemy Ier. 1 7 8 2. 2. 2 Tim. 3. 16 17. Gal 3. 15. Psal 19. 7 8 9. Prov. 30. 5 6. Deu● 4. 2. 5 6. 1 Tim. 6. 3. 4 5. in the Administration of the Sacrament in that they acknowledge Arch-Angels when there is but one Arch-Angel Christ Jesus and a humane Service or Directory-booke to read unto the people When Christs Church must read onely his divine Word and according to the same Word administer confesse and performe prayer 7. In Order they of the Churches of England Iam. 2 1. Heb. 8. 5. Deut. 5. 32. have respect of Persons Crossing Kneeling c. When Christs servants may not respect the Rev. 22. 18. 19. 20. 10. 9 10. 1 Cor. 11 2. 1 Chr. 15. 13. rich before the poore in the Church in respect of this worlds goods neither adde to his order in any circumstance in the performance of his Ordinances In Government Theirs of the Churches of England is by the power of a Commissaries Court or some other earthly power newly established When Christs Government is by his owne Power without the helpe of earthly power 1 Cor. 5. 4. 12 13. 2 Cor. 2. 7 8 9 10. Matth. 18. 20. within his owne Church Q. May not the childe of God lawfully pray with the Ministers of the Church of England in their Churches A. They may not for they give acknowledgement Hag. 2 12 13. Isa 42. 8. Math 23. 9 10 of making Divine Lawes for the order of worship to worldly Magistrates and blaspheme in their prayers in giving Primate Metropolitan Lord Grace Reverend Father in God unto a wicked creature which attributes and Honour belongs onely to the Lord Jesus and his Honour hee will not give unto any creature Q. May not the childe of God heare the Rom. 16. 17. Ier. 23. 16. Mat. 15. 8. 14 Isay 29 13. 60. 3. Luke 6. Word preached in some one of the Churches of England or Anti-christ A. Hee may not 〈◊〉 For a false Minister is odious unto the Lord and all his Saints 39. Iohn 10. 5. 1 Tim. 3. 6. Prov. 19. 27. Prov. 16. 27. Psal 50. 16 17 Iohn 10. 1. 2. For they ought not so long as they so stand to take Gods name in their mouthes 3. For the Lords servants will not follow them who are strange in office towards him 4. For my presence is an incouraging them in their Corasiticall practises For if none would heare they would not preach 5. If I may hear them who are strange in office Mat. 1. 24 25. 34. 3. 1● 12 Luk. 8. 28 29. to Christ I may heare the Pope or divell if hee as Satan will preach Gods Word unto me Yet Christ would not permit Satan to say he was the Son of God Q. How can it be unlawfull to heare some of the Ministers of the Church of England of the old stampe or new forme seeing they are very good men A. It is impossible for any man to be a good Mat. 23 Num. 16. 1 King 18. 19 22. 24. man holding a wicked office more then for a thiefe to be an honest man continuing stealing their goodnesse is but colour it is not substance as proves if you touch their Honour or Riches that should maintaine the same Q. How can so many men of great learning being new sealed with the old stamp be deceived A. There were 450. false Prophets in King 1 King 13 19 22. 6. Ahabs time and very few true to stand against them and there are farre more learned Papists stamped with the Priesthood then of England 2 Pet. 2. 1. Iohn 4. 1. 2 Tim. 4. 3. and as there were false Prophets that did deceive so there are and shall be Q. How can it bee unlawfull to be a member pray or heare Gods Word taught in the Churches of England seeing Conversion is in them A. Conversion is not in any of the Churches Gal. 4. 26. of England otherwise then the Word of God is among them which Word converts or condemnes alwayes in all places and from the Word I acknowledge none may depart 1 Tim. 6. 3 4 5 6 Rom. 16. 17. Ierem. 15. 17. But from the Priests and people where the Word of God is taught and had with Instituted Ceremonies of mens Inventions which they will not amend all that will have assurance Math 7. 22 23 Mat. 5. 19 20 21 22. they are the Lords Children must depart and there may not abide Because such Priests and People so continuing are rejected of the Lord. 2. For their doings and themselves in divine Psalm 101. 3. Prov. 29. 27. worship is abhominable unto the Lord and all his Saints 3. Such people make a worship to themselves Phil. 3. 19. 4 If it bee not so we need not have refused the Congregated worship in Rome but doe wickedly in standing against them Q. Where were you Converted seeing you were not converted in the Church of England A. In Jerusalem from above which is the G●l 4 16 27. Psal 87. 5 6. Esay 54. 1. mother of all Gods Elect Q. What is Ierusalem from above A. It is Christ and his Gospell 1 Cor. 4. 15. Q. How know you Ierusalem from above to be Christ and his Gospell A. Because God the Father preached it Gen. 3. 15. The seed of the woman shall break the Serpents Gallat 38. head and there shall be enmity betweene the womans seed and the Serpents And in him all Nations shall be blessed Matth. 1. 21. Acts 4. 12. And hee shall save his people from their sinnes There being no other name under heaven given whereby we must be saved EZEKIEL 33. 2 3 4 5 6. Sonne of man speak to the children of thy people and say unto them When I bring the Sword upon a land if the people of the land take a man of their coasts and set him for their watch-man If when he seeth the sword come upon the land he blow the Trumpet and warne the people Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet and taketh not warning if the sword come and take him away his bloud shall be upon his ownn head Hee heard the sound of the Trumpet and tooke not warning his bloud shall bee upon him but he that taketh warning shall deliver his soule But if the watch-man see the sword come and blow not the Trumpet and the people be not warned if the sword come and take any person from
1 Tim. 2. 8. and will not have any place left standing that may ensnare his people Q. What must one brother in Church fellowship doe to another brother that falleth into sin A. Pray to the Almighty for the remission of 1 Iohn 5. 16. his sinnes 2. keepe his sin secret Galat. 6. 1. 3. Watch a time when he is fittest to receive Act. 3. 21. Psal 32. c. instruction 4. Tell him his fault secretly when hee is alone Mat. 13. 15 16 17. 5. prove the act evill unto him by GODS Word 2 Sam. 12. 1. 7. Ephes 6. 17. Pro. 15. 1. 1 Cor. 16. 14. 2 Sam. 12. 1. Rom. 16. 17. 6. Use moderate speeches with love and wisedome to perswade him from it Q. If I see my brother sin may I not tell another before I have told him A. No It is hatefull to the Lord Chams Gen. 9. 22. 25● Psalm 101. 56 practice and they cursed that do it Q. What is that Church which is mingled with all sorts of people profane and wicked A. It is a Church of confusion where the Rev. 18. 1. 4. 2 Cor. 6. 14. 17 18. 1 Tim. 6. 4 5. Acts 19. 9. Lords people may not tarry Q. What is that Church which was never contracted or covenanted together to be a church A. An adulterous practiser and stealer of Prov 9. 13. 17 18. 5. 3 4. Dan. 11. 22 23. Ier. 3. 14. Ephes 5. 23. that shee bestowes upon the people 1. * Ephes 4. 16. Neh. 9. 38. 10. 28. For without a Covenant many cannot become a body neither in divine nor humane things 2. If they could the children of Israel need not to have covenanted when they came out of Babell 3. Neither a man with a maide to make her Math. 1. 18. Luke 1. 27. his wife Q. VVhat is that particular Church that hath not Christs power among themselves without the helpe of any to excommunicate A. It is an Anti-christian Church Rev. 3. 9. Mat. 18. 20. 1 Cor. 5. 4. 1 Cor. 1. 18. Rom. 1. 13. Matth. 15. 20. For Christ will be with that his Church power where ever his Church is As a King will be with his power of judgement where his Assize is held Q. vvhat is the matter whereof Anti-christs Church is made A. A company externally compelled by civill authority of visible prophane blinde zealous Ier. 15. 17. 19. Rev. 13. 16. 18. 1. Isay 1. 2. dissemblers and ignorant persons which condemn in others what they practice themselves and any other that wil if they by threatning and punishing can make them say and sweare as they would have them Q. Is none of Gods Elect in Babel or in a● Anti-christian Church A. There is but they are not of that Church neither is it lawfull for them to continue therein Revel 18. 4. 1 Iohn 2. 19. Q. vvhat is that makes men to be visibly on● with an Anti-christaan Church A. Joyning and submitting together under Dan. 11. 23. Rom. 6. 16. their commanded orders Q. What is that which makes men contin●● Antichrists subjects A. The feare of punishment ignorance of the Revel 13. 15. truth and worldly riches gained by that service Matth. 23. 34. Revel 12. 4. Q. What are the markes whereby wee may know Babel or an Anti-christian Church A. By altering of Gods Ordinances or order Isay 24. 5. Dan. 11. 31. Matth. 24. 15. Mar. 13. 14. 2 Cor. 10. 4. 1 24. Mat. 24. 9. Act. 12. 4. and placing of mens inventions in the stead thereof compulsion to divine obedience by civill authority forcing men against their consciences to say as they would have imprisoning those that cannot yeeld unto them Q. What is the power which Anti-christ hath left unto his Churches A. It is wicked Articles and mischievous Luke 6. 22. Matth. 23. 15. tale-telling is appointed for Courts to open and shut hell therewith that Sathan servants may be forced in and they being in shall not get out Q. Are the Lords children ever the worse for the Anti-christian Churches or courts excommunication or punishment A. No they are much the better for they Luke 6. ●2 23 Ioh. 16. 2. Mat. 5. 10 11. Mark 10. 29. 30. have particular promises of Gods favour more then before Q. Is not one church of Anti-christ inferiour to another and tyed to obey their impositions or the impositions of some Anti-christian assembly of their Divines Answ They are as appeares by their Lady Whores of Canterbury and Yorke with the slavish pandering Churches they and their Antichristian assembly of Divines raigne over Q. Doth not the giving of the Sacrament and preaching of the Word make a true Church Ans No then one lying in a Gaole among Je●em 7. 10. 1 Kings 13. 2. Amos 4. 4. 5. M●cha 1. 6. 16. 2. Acts 13. 2 10. 12. Theeves and Murderers preaching the Word and giving the Sacrament make these Theeves a true Church for the Lord abhorred Shilo for the wickednesse of the Priests and Dan and Bethel though they had Gods Ordinances among them Q. May not the childe of God stand a member of one of the Churches of England or Anti-Christ A. He may not because none of the Churches of England were set up of Christ neither are any of them governed by him They were not set up of Christ neither in Matter Gathering Joyning Ministery Maintenance Acts nor Order o Ro. 1. 7. 1 Cor. 1 2. 2. Cor. 1. 1. Ephes 1. 4. 1 Thes 2. 10. Act. 9. 4. Heb. 1. 3. 1 Pet. 1. 16. 2 Cor. 13. 12. Col. 1. 2. 1 Thes 5. 27. Heb. 13. 24. 1 Cor. 5. 5. 7. 1 Ioh. 2. 19. Act. 8. 2● Ex. 12. 43. 48. In Matter they of the Churchs of England were all persecuting Papists at the first When at the first Christs Church must be all visible holy Saints and no other 2. In Gathering they of the Churchs of England were forced together by an earthly Proclamation When Christs people must freely come together into a Church onely by the preaching of his divine Word 3. In Joyning they of the Churches of England Act. 2. 37. 40. 4. 1. 4. 16. 14 15. 34. 8. 5 12 run together as rude people getting children without covenanting or marrying first together * Ephes 5. 23 Nehem. 9. 38. Gen. 17. 7. 9 10 11. Heb. 13. 20 Act. 3. 25. Heb. 8. 6. 7 8 9 10. Gal. 3. 17. Mat. 18. 20. Neh 10. 29. When Christs Church must first be marryed or covenanted together before they performe Church Ordinances 4. In Ministery they of the Churches of England preach by vertue of an Ordinance Act. 6. 3. Eze. 33. 2. Acts 14. 23. 1 Cor. 16. 3. Act. 1. 23. 26. from an Anti-christian Bishop and a licence from him or the Presbyters When Christs Ministers must preach by vertue of that calling the Church whereof he is shall give unto him 5. In