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A53381 A sober discourse of the honest cavalier with the popish couranter wherein the author of the Dialogue between the Pope and fanatick vindicates himself to be an hearty lover of his prince and countrey : to which is annexed, A serious epistle to Hodge / by a person of quality. Onslow, Richard Onslow, Baron, 1654-1717. 1680 (1680) Wing O350; ESTC R21447 17,153 26

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excellent Credit for the Established Ministry under whose Conduct and Teaching they live Cav I confess if all the Souls in England were under the actual Conduct of the Established Ministry there were some Consequence in your Insinuation but you know very well that there are many Thousands who are bewildred by those Wandring Stars who have no Fixure from Heaven nor Establishment on Earth It was this sort of Seduced People for whom that Reflexion was intended and therefore had you been unpassionate you might have observed That it was the Fanatick's Lot to speak that Passage and as of those of his own Tribe and indeed I do believe That most of those deluded People have no more skill in Primitive Christianity than the Chineses have in Mathematicks And how is it possible they should have a clear Notion of Religion who are led by the Mists of Darkness as St. Jude calls the Schismaticks of old I suppose you have seen the Authentick Speeches of Kid and King the two late Preaching Rebels of Scotland Were not they excellent Professors of Divinity How passionately did they expound some Texts of Moses for the Religious observation of the Scottish Covenant which had no more relation to that Matter than the Chapter of the Cow in the Alcoran of Mahomet And you cannot expect that the People should have more Judgment than their Rabbies And therefore when some of the Captive-Rebels were interrogated for what Reason they took up Arms they Answered for Defence of the Truth And being further examined For what Truth They could give no Account of that And being Catechized they did not know two Articles of the Christian Creed nor one of the Ten Commandments and as for their Duty towards God or their Neighbour I suppose you will easily grant they were never taught such meer Moral Divinity Now pray Sir consider How can such silly Women and uneducated Men who were scarce over taught any other Gospel than that according to the Canticles who never heard any other Divinity besides Fanatick Separations and Enthusiastick Vnions how can these I say he supposed to have any truer Notion of Christianity than the Chineses had in Clock-work But as for that humble and devouter part of the Commonalty who have lived in a constant Communion with the Established Church I believe they have a better Understanding of Christian Religion than most of the Friers of Rome or the People-Drivers of England This Expression may offend you especially when I must tell you I was taught it by Imperial Authority for when the Council of Chalcedon had determined that Controversie for which they were Assembled the Emperors Valent. and Marcian did strictly Command by their Imperial Edicts That all should acquiesce in the Decrees of the Council and did prohibit all Conventicles in this excellent Phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and now proceed Sir Cour. You falsly suggest that there are many unconforming Ministers posted in the Establish'd Church by the Title of Sober and Moderate Men. Cav Sir I heartily wish that Suggestion were false I am infallibly assured That there is a lamentable Corporation in the Cantons of the East-Angles which according to my Map is next door to Roterdam the Living indeed is an Appropriation and managed by Fanatick-Lessees but in this Half-Moon have been posted two or three Non-conforming Ministers who have no more Holy Orders than the Turkish Mufti and here the unfortunate Infants either have no Christendom or else by no better Commission than a Midwife-Authority and the Dead Buried with no more Solemnity than an Ass Whether the Churches Canons have lately forced these uncommissioned Officers to quit the Post I am not yet informed but I am sure That for some years since the King's Restaturation they did desecrate the very Church and had their Pay out of the Parochial Tithes and were adored by the silly Vulgus with the Title of sober and moderate Men But I acknowledg These sort of Men were not principally intended by my Insinuation for I look upon these as Religious Banditi and under a Covenant to war against the Church but I mean such who by Episcopal Orders and Institution have a fixed Station within the Church and yet by Disobedience and Treachery do undermine that Establishment Sr. My Conscience assures me that the Latin Verse which is the Sign-Post to your Popish Courant is a false position as to me but in respect of these Men it will run true Tuta frequensque via est sub amici fallere nomen Tuta frequensque licet sit via Crimen habet I think it might be demonstrated that he is a Non-conformist who not only crosses the Line but comes short of the direct Canon of Conformity Suppose you should lend upon bond to one of your dear Brethren whom ye will not call Fanaticks the full Sum of an hundred pounds of good and lawful English Money to be paid to the above said Couranter at a determined time and when that Period be expired your friend should honestly come and tender you thirty pieces and tell you that he was able indeed to pay the Sum total but having some in his Family who had a great tenderness for Money and did not love the height of Law-conformity that therefore he was resolved he would never pay more than this thirty pound Would you gravely applaud the Prudentials of the man and style it soberness and moderation or would you according to Law call it non-payment Sir do but consider without prejudice whether the Oaths and Obligations of Canonical Obedience are not more Sacred Ties of Conscience than the hand and seal to a Noverint Vniversi and eke also c. but you are so good at Deductions that I will leave you to make the application The honest Divines of the Church of England who for the● Conscience and Obedience are Branded for High-flyers look upon the Rubricks of the Common-Prayer-Book as indispensible Directions of the Church and as commanded by Authority of Parliament for the act of Uniformity not only establishes those publick Praiers and Offices but commands That all and singular Ministers in any Cathedral Collegiate or Parish-Church or Chappel or other place of publick Worship within this Realm of England shall be bound to say and use Morning and Evening Prayer Celebration and Administration of both the Sacraments and all other the Publick and Common Prayer in such Order and Form as is mentioned in the said Book Entituled the Book of Common-Prayer c. That is according to the Rubricks for that is the only Order and Form of usage Now one of the first Orders which is to be noted in the Common-Praier-Book is that such Ornaments of the Church and of the Ministers thereof at all times of their Ministration shall be Retained and be in Use as were in the Church of England by the Authority of Parliament in the Second Year of King Edward the sixth But I know some humoursome Ministers in the Establish'd Church that dare
if I had intended to have acquainted the Fanaticks as I call them with this Advantage and security of Assassination that I would have Published the Mystery No sure I should have gone to * An House of Vanity or a Conventicle Bethaven and whispered the Matter to some of the Secret Ones but I thought to publish the Danger was a very honest Method to prevent it But I observe you are very Civil to the King and call him Sacred Majesty and so indeed he is by the Style of Religion and Law but I am afraid that men of your Temper do never complement Princes but when they are above your affronts and you will allow the King to be Sacred so long as he can assert his Majesty but if ye can devest him of his Sovereignty and reduce him into condition to be affronted then he shall be Charles Stuart again and his Family no more jure divino than that of the late Vsurper There are a sort of men in England who treat their Princes as the Pagans did their Deities call them Sacred and pay them adoration and Sacrifice as long as their humours are served and their Interest indulged or under some present air but like them they must have their Gods inclosed in narrow shrines and in a Storm if the wind do not favour their course they will affront their Numen which before they adored and having him upon the chain will whip him into compliance But these men I speak of under the rose to use your own Parenthesis have out-done those Pagan Insolencies and in a Tempest of their own raising cast their Deity overboard because he would not answer their unreasonable Addresses And here Sir in plain dealing which you call Impudence I will give you my Sence of Popish Plots I am so far in this matter from being an Infidel that I believe the Popish Plot is as old as the Reformation and that there have been no times since the happy Inauguration of Queen Elizabeth without some Trains and Jesuitical Consults to subvert the establisht Government of Church and State except the times of our late confusions for then there was no need of Plotting when the Jesuite by his Fanatick Engines had effected the ruine of Church and Monarchy and so sate down in ease and triumph and founded Colleges in those days which made such a noise in these No sooner had God by a Miracle restored the King to his Crown and the Church to its orderly Establishment but the Popish Mines were framed anew and the Jesuite proceeds in course to consult our ruine and as for those men that opened the Vault and discovered the Mine in our late Critical Juncture may they find that reward which their truth justice and honest intentions deserve Now that which gives the Pope such a peculiar Envy to the Church of England is this By our Episcopacy and Priesthood by our publick Confession of the Ancient Creeds by our well-composed Liturgy and by solemn Decency and Order in publick Devotions We retain the Face of an Ancient Catholick and Apostolick Church and if we should continue undisturbed for some Ages the Beauty and Eminency of our Primitive Christianity might have such an Influence upon most part of Christendom That they would discover the Cheat of Popish Supremacy and Innovations and reform according to our most excellent Model of the first 400 years but I am confident if this Monarchy and Hierarchy were destroyed and Fanaticism had the Regency of England that the Pope would be at no farther charges for the carrying on of Plots for such a Chaos of Fanaticism would serve as an excellent Foil to commend the Beauty of the Romish Church and might add many Proselytes to that Religion but for want of Foundation and Argument they would be so unable to contend with the Papacy that the Pope would not think them worthy of his Designs If there be not some Truth in this pray give me a Reason Why since the Reformation we never heard of so many Popish Plots against Holland and Geneva as against the established Government and Religion of England Cour. You have impudent Reflections upon the King and Parliament c. Cav I confess the Reflections you point to were very impudent but in that consists their Propriety The Pamphlet was a Dialogue between the two immortal Enemies of the King and Church and I thought that wise and honest men would not mistake those rude Expressions for the Sentiments of the Author for if I had made the Pope and Fanatick to have spoken Civilly of Princes and talked like honest men and good Subjects I had misrepresented the Scene and perverted the Nature of the Beast for had you been with me at Leicester-Election and heard those rude Fanatick Clamors against his most Sacred Majesty and seen their Affronts to the Loyal Gentry and Clergy you would have thought that I had managed the Fanatick with great Prudence and taught him to speak with more Modesty and Manners than he would have been guilty of had he been left to his natural Idiom But if you will have my own Sence I look upon the King to be as God's immediate Delegate in the Government of these Nations and therefore reckon a Libel against my Prince to be but one Remove from Blasphemy I have a very great Honour and Veneration for his Grace the Duke of Lauderdale and I do not question but that Noble Lord whose Wisdom hath contributed very much to the Safety of Three Kingdoms will easily discern That the Author intended no Dishonour to his Name by that honest Rudeness of Lucifer or Lauderdale Cour. You have an impudent Reflexion too upon those of the Long Robe p. 4. Cav I believe there never was more worthy and Loyal Men under the Long Robe than there is in this Age but you know there was once a Society less Numerous and more Sacred that yet had one Traitor that wore the Pallium and among so many Thousands that are used to carry the Bag it would be little less than Miracle if there should not be found two or three who would betray their Lord to an High Court of Justice if there were a Jewish Sanhedrim to tempt them with the Silver pieces Cour. You ridicule Sir E. B. G's Murder and scornfully call him that meer Shadow of a Knight Cav I had as great a value for Sir E. B. G. and as serious a Sense of his Murder as you but you know from his thin Body he was usually called The Ghost and being to speak the Sense of his Enemy I thought the Shadow of a Knight might have been a pardonable Phrase for my part I am so far from making a Ridicule as you call it of that Worthy Person that I look upon the Blood of Sir E. B. G. as the most substantial Evidence of the Popish Plot. Cour. You affirm The Common People of England have no more Judgment in Theology than the Chineses had in Mathematicks an
and a fit respect to the lesser Wheels that then all would move with quiet and order and the work would be as glorious and useful as ever it was in the daies of his Prodecessors But I see that which frights most is the King 's Taking up the Imperial Crown The words despotic and absolute I grant to be greater Buggs than Blazing Stars and extraordinary Eruptions of Aetna I know you are pleas'd to allow the King the Complement of the Crown-Imperial but you would have it signifie no more than the Cap at Venice Your Friends are unwilling to grant the King so much despotick Power as to be Master of his own Head You would have the Government of England to be a mear Game at Chess betwen King and Parliament and when the Knights and Paunes have out-plotted the King forc'd him into streights The King must not move beyond the exact square but must yield himself to be check-mated and the Royal Game to be lost You would reduce your Prince unto such difficulties as should be insuperable according to Law and then having gain'd this advantage upon him the King must tamely give up his Head and his Crown but in no case make Use of one extraordinary motion of Authority to secure his Life and Monarchy If this be the Case of Princes God have mercy upon poor Kings who must be so Tyrannically restrain'd as not to be allowed the privilege of the Law of Nature not to be suffer'd to preserve themselves in extremity by any extraordinary method of proceeding but to be ruin'd by the punctili● of a Law And though under the Obligation of an Oath to protect their Subjects be yet deny'd the power of doing it There is no Government upon Earth so well constituted but corruption of time and manners may produce such mischiefs and difficulties as will be impossible to redress without some new measure of proceeding and in such a case of necessity I think the Supream Power may secure it self by some unusual act of Authority without being thought despotick or absolute I believe the Kings of Israel were not absolute Ahab could not seize upon Naboth's Property without his consent or Legal forfeiture But put case the Syrians had invaded the Land and so far advanc'd as to besiege the Royal City and Palace had it not been lawful in this extremity for the King to have cut down the Vines and turned Naboth's Vineyard into a Garrison without or against his consent Suppose there were a mutual Law between both these Kingdoms that no English Army should enter the Bounds of Scotland without the consent of that Parliament and so vice versa Now suppose that which thanks be to God we have no reason to fear almost all the whole People of Scotland should revolt and crown an Usurper must the King with his English Army stand conjur'd up within the Circle of Tweed and lose a whole Kingdom upon a point of Law or out of Complement to a Statute or might not his Majesty in this extremity enter into the Bowels of Scotland with a non obstante Thus if the Age were calm and sober and allegiance were the general Mode of England and none could represent the People but such who are devout to Church and State then the King would be safe enough within the Boundaries of Law and should have no reason to act beyond the Circle of that Crown-Imperial which is already his just Right and Possession and in my greatest extasie of Loyalty I will never wish the King more despotic than to be always in the Head of Loyal Parliaments but let us presume that the greatest part of the Populacy should be so debauch'd by Republican-Arts or Fanatick-Principles that it were absolutely impossible that a Loyal Parliament should be chosen but that most of the Members who were to be return'd should only serve as the Factious Granadeers to make some bold assault upon King and Monarchy would not you grant that during these unlucky circumstances Parliaments were impracticable and exhaling such Sulphurie Clouds would only produce Thunder and Tempest Remember the Fatal Instance of Charles the First and what he was brought to by the Insolencies of a Factious House of Commons and then consider whether under the like difficulties it were not justifiable in the King rather to lengthen his Scepter half an Inch than to suffer himself to be shortned by the whole head Whether it be not lawful for the King in his Supream Wisdom rather to exert one unusual Act of Royal Power upon State-Necessity than to reduce himself and his Loyal Subjects under the absolute and Despotic-Power of a Fanatick-Commonwealth or Vsurper of whose Tyrannies we have felt too much already Indeed if the abused Countrey-Men could be brought to their right ●●●fits and Senses and the Gentlemen would increase to full Understanding and leave the Phanatick naked to his own ill looking Countenance and Interest then I should think the Faction inconsiderable and the old method of Elections as practicable as ever but in the mean time till this Miracle be wrought suppose the King should by his Imperial authority command that no Papist or any desperate Phanatick who by Ecclesiastical Censure or their own perverse Separation stood excommunicate from the Established Church should have any Votes in the Election of Knights and Burgesses who were to serve in Parliament Sir this is the utmost I ever meant by taking up the Imperial Crown and therefore had you been ingenuous you should have inserted those words of mine or else by his Supreme wisdom contrive some more quiet and safer method of Elections but this whole expression you have designedly omitted I am sure this Method may be vindicated by common Reason and that is a more universal and elder Sanction than common Law Can any Man in reason expect that those men should be well qualified to establish the Quiet of the Kingdom who are chosen in Phanatick Hurricanes Are these men that Saint the murderers of Charles the First fit persons to chuse a Councel for the Second Can the declared Enemies to the Monarchy and Church of England ever be presumed to chuse those who are friends to either Is it reasonable that the inveterate Enemies of the Government should be intrusted with such a power as shall be constantly improv'd to destroy it I know a Loyal or Church-of England Parliament would keep their Ancient Land-marks and be thankful to the Throne for the Favour of the Chair and not think it the Peoples chiefest Privilege and Business to encroach upon their Prince and his Prerogative But if we must have Presbyterians to represent us pray let me request you to compile an exact Map of their Dominions for it would much tend to the Quiet of the Kingdom to know the certain Extent and Boundaries of such a House of Commons for if their Privileges be Infinite or Vnlimited we are not yet secure from Arbitrary Power and I should think 500 Masters is as much Despotick Government as a Single Caesar But pray when you draw this Map do it after the Old Modest Measure of the English Compass and not according to the Tedious Scale of German Miles which makes one Privilege as long as Three And thus I am Sir in spight of your Calumnies an honest Cavalier a sincere Member of the Establish'd Church of England a great Friend to Honest and Loyal Parliaments a hearty Lover of my Prince and Countrey and strike at none but the Pope and Fanatick and I hope you will not call Them the Basis of the Government