Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	acknowledge_v	church_n	true_a	2,766	5	5.8656	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93883	An Ansvver to a libell intituled, A coole conference betweene the cleered Reformation and the apologeticall narration; brought together by a wel-willer to both; wherein are cleerely refuted what ever he bringeth against the Reformation cleared, most humbly submitted to the judgement of the honourable Houses of Parliament, the most learned and reverend divines of the assembly, and all the reformed churches. By Adam Steuart.	Steuart, Adam.	1644 (1644)	Wing S5489; Thomason E43_4; ESTC R11438	39,008	70

AN ANSVVER TO A LIBELL INTITULED A COOLE CONFERENCE Between the cleered REFORMATION AND THE APOLOGETICALL NARRATION Brought together by a Wel-willer to both Wherein are cleerely refuted what ever he bringeth against the Reformation cleared most humbly submitted to the judgement of the Honourable Houses of Parliament the most Learned and Reverend Divines of the Assembly and all the Reformed Churches By ADAM STEVART Amb. lib. 5. de Fide Si taceamus consentire videbimur si contendamus verendum ne carnales judicemur Imprinted at London 1644. TO THE READER COurteous Reader I pray thee excuse some of the most materiall faults fallen out partly by my absence partly by an accident that befell the Copy and to correct them as followeth PAge 3. line 8. read neither should he have feared a suppression of his book p. 10. l. 11. dele all that parenthesis ibid. p. l. 20. dele because p. 11. l. 9. read and those who interesse p. 16. l. 24. for but so r. and so p. 19. l. 26. r. for it was 1. it was p. 22. d. men p. 25. l. 3. r. Answ 1. ib. p. l. 5. for how r. 2. How ibid. p. l. 8. after the word Communion adde all that followeth 3. Either this Wel-willer pretendeth to play the Naturalist or the Divine If the Naturalist he knoweth not well the nature of the Northerly winde for ordinarily it bringeth not blacke but faire weather and scattereth the clouds as he might learne of all Naturalists ab Aqualone aurum from the North commeth gold i.e. golden or fair weather Iob 37.22 The North winde driveth away rain Prov. 25.23 If he play the Divine and allude to Scripture I must say to him as Christ said to the Jewes Ye erre not understanding the Scriptures for there it signifieth either the Spirit of Christ as in Salomons Song And then he must pray with the Church A wake O North-winde and come thou South blow upon my garden that the spices thereof may flow out Cant. 4.16 Or Gods people who were Northerne in respect of the Philistins who were their enemies so we must be Gods people and the Independenters whom this Wel-willer opposeth to the North their enemies or the Babylonians who were septentrionall or North-ward in respect of Gods people Esay 41.25 and so he esteemeth us to be Gods enemies if so how hold they us for one of the most pure Churches but what ever it signifie it can never signifie the Church of Scotland but in a very good sense Pag. 27. d. us p. 28. for Heb. panegr r. as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Scripture Heb. 12.23 l. ult for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 29. l. 8. for vomit r. ye vomit p. 29. l. 30. d. of my selfe p. 43. l. 27. for two read five p. 35. l. 29. after the word narration adde all this that followeth Onely I pray the Reader to consider these mens craft in going about to sow the seeds of division betwixt the civill Magistrat the orthodox Churches in making the world to beleeve that they grant him more then the maximes of Presbyteriall Government will suffer them to do For 1. They tell not wherein 2. Whether this power be Ecclesiasticall or Civill as for the Ecclesiasticall they cannot give it 1. It being onely a Ministeriall power to serve not Magisteriall to dominiere with or to be given away by proxy to whom they please 2. If they give the Magistrat any power what can it be is it to preach to teach the power of the Keies to Excommunicate or to attend upon the sick and poore people and as for the civill it is not theirs but His Majesties and the Magistrates as is the constant tenet of all the Orthodox Churches who hold the Civill power incompatible with that of a Pastour or Doctor of the Church 3. If they grant the Magistrate more power then our Churches how is it that they acknowledge the Kings Patent in new-New-England for nothing else but in matters of State or Civill Government and Gods word onely in Church Government 4. He and they also hold the same rule in old-Old-England and therefore I pray all men only to consider if this be not rather a gulling of the Civill Magistrate then a proof of what they say 5. I wish him to answer whether new-New-England depend of old-Old-England and whether they thinke the King and Parliament have power to change Religion and Church Government there 6. Whether they both have power to do the same here against Gods word 7. Whether the Parliament have done well or not in calling of this Assembly of Divines to judge of matters of Religion As for us the constant opinion of all our Churches is that all Civill power belongeth onely to the Civill Magistrate and none at all to the Church 2. That the Civill Magistrate hath an extrinsecall executive power about Religion to maintaine and reforme it in case of corruption and that according to the presidents in Scripture Neither did ever any good Christian Prince assume any more to himselfe Neither doth it any way lessen his power that it is only extrinsecall for to be intrinsecall or extrinsecall signifieth not any quantity of greater or lesser power but onely the manner thereof for an extrinsecall power and influence may be greater then an intrinsecall as appeareth in that of the efficient and Materiall cause for the first is only active and yet extrinsecall but the second meerely passive without any action or efficacy at all and yet intrinsecall PErlegi tractatum hunc in quo nihil reperio quo minus cum utilitate publicâ imprimatur IA. CRANFORD BEfore I beginne the Refutation of this Pamphlet it shall not be amisse that I apologize for my selfe for refuting a Book already sufficiently refuted of it selfe and by that very same Booke whereof it intendeth the refutation I will therefore here declare unto the Christian Reader how I came to undertake it how unwilling I was to doe it upon what reasons I was moved thereunto The truth therefore is thus That some daies after the publication of this booke I hapned to fall in company with some men of quality that were reading of it and after the perusall thereof it was the joint wish of them all that some answer were drawne up unto it A few dayes after that I chanced to re-encounter with some of the same company and some others very well affected to Reformation who after sundry discourses fell upon the same Theme againe some of them saying that it would doe well that the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland would answer it Where some of them desiring me to deliver my opinion I replyed severall times as occasion required in substance that which followeth That it might seeme strange to others if men of such gravity and learning and much more of so eminent place and employment representing the whole Nationall Church of the Kingdome of Scotland should stoop to answer every idle

be insufficient for removing of offences unlesse the Authority of the Church of which both of them are members shall intervene The Doctor replieth that besides Exhortations Protestations and non-communion they professo themselves ever to submit and to have recourse to the Civill Magistrate Inst This profession of submission is either voluntary depending of their own free will or by necessity of obligation whereunto they are subject by Law If they chose the first it is no more then a number of Watermen Tinkers and Coblers may doe of them-selves by a particular convention 2. It is not juris divini as they pretend their Government to be but humani depending of their own fancy And to professe themselves to be willing to have recourse to the civill Magistrate it is not at all to the purpose but most absurd 1. for that power of the Clvill Magistrate is not intrinsecall but extrinsecall unto the Church but we speake only of the power that is intrinsecall and proper to the Church and so must our Brethren also if they will speake rationally 2. In so doing they make the Civill Magistrate Judge of Ecclesiasticall controversies in Doctrine and Discipline and Head of the Church c. which cannot hold when he is an Infidell an Antichristian c. whereof see more in the Commissioners answer and in the Observations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration 3. In so doing ye make the Churcle power subordinate to Civill power which cannot be for subordination is betwixt things of the same kinde or sort but such are not Civill and Ecclesiasticall power which are opposite or rather contradistinguished or differenced one from another as things destinated to or different ends the one spirituall and the othertemporall 2. He complaineth that the Commissioners call them these of the Separation unlesse withall they exprest they meant the seperation from the Prolates wayes as Scotland and England now doe Answ Yea but they separate themselves also from the Sacramentall communion of all Christian Churches yea of all the Reformed Churches of the world And if it be true what we have read in the letters from new-New-England from the communion of one Church with another amongst themselves 3. He saith that such a Case may fallout amongst us with swasmes of Anabaptists and Antinomians Answ That cannot be for they have no Communion with us and therefore cannot be excommunicated by us 2. It may easily fall out amongst you for the Anabaptists as we have already shewed are your owne and not ours 4. He sayes that the Commissioners suppose more in their second Answer viz. that two or more Churches may mutually pretest and pronounce the sentence of non-communion one against another Answ This Doctor is either very dull in not conceiving of this cleare and solid answer of the Commissioners or else very malicious in disguising of it for the Commissioners argue here upon a Case according to the Independenters Hypothesis which cannot but be ordinary amongst them according to their Discipline and howbeit their Churches be very few and have been a very short time in rerum natura yet it hath fallen out amongst them in New England and they have had the like Case in the Netherlands according to their owne Relation but in our way and Discipline it cannot fall out amongst us for if two Parish Churches have any difference they submit themselves both to the Colloque or to the Provinciall Assembly if two Provinciall Synods or Assemblies differ the Nationall Assembly judgeth betwixt them both so that this Case cannot fall out amongst us and it is a practicall principle that par in parem non habet imperium since neither of the equals are subject one to the other and such are all Parish Churches amongst themselves Classes amongst themselves and Provinciall Synods amongst themselves The Doctor by a Doctorall power jumpeth over the 3. and 4. Answer with this worthy and most Laconicke reply viz. This same reply sarveth to year third and fourth answer Which whether it be truly said I remit it to the Readers judgement The Commissioners fifth Answer is By what probability can it be made to appeare to any rationall man and indifferent minde that no authority shall be as valid as authority against the obstinate that via admonitionis and requisitionis is equall with via citationis publiea authoritatis There cannot bee so much as triall and examination of the offence without authority unlesse the party bee willing to appeare that perswasion and jurisdiction that the delivering over to Satan and thereby striking the conscience with the terrour of God by the authority of Jesus Christ which hath the promise of a speciall and strong ratification in heavn and any other Ecclesiasticall way whatsoever which must be inferiour unto this and depend onely upon perswasion on the one part and free will on the other can be supposed to be like efficacious No man will say but in civill matters it is one thing to have adoe with our neighbour who hath no more authority over us then we have over him and another thing to have to doe with civill power which hath authority over both this solution I have written over in the Commissioners own words because it is so significative so strong and evident that it dissolveth all the frivolous Replies of this good Doctor The Doctor hence supposeth 1. That there is no authority but Scripture-authority by Scripture-authority I beleeve he meaneth that instituted by Scripture otherwaies Scripture authority is the excellency of Scripture verity which binds us to beleeve it because of its Author which is God 2. He supposes that to be most valid that convinceth and conquers actus elicitos the minde rather then that which doth onely manacle and constraine ●●●us imperatos the outward carriage then makes his quaere thus Is the way of admonition protestation and non-communion no authority Reply But here the Doctor is mightily mistaken both in his Authority and in his Actus eliciti and Imperati 1. For every thing that is said in Scripture howbeit its verity be grounded on Divine Authority yet giveth it not men an authority or authoritative power for what authoritative power is given to man or Angel by those words In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth 2. Neither doth every admonition in Scripture made to men arm them with authority as that place of Saint Paul whereon the Doctor buildeth his authority Give no offence for it commandeth not an authority or authoritative power to be exercised but an act of obedience to be practised Item no publique power or authority but a private duty because it is common to all men which cannot be said of Ecclesiasticall authority Likewise that other passage better a milstone were hanged about ones necke and he cast into the Sea then to offend a weake brother Item that we were better not to eate flesh then to offend c. All this is said by Divine Authority in respect