thomas_n hold_v the_o first_o and_o 3._o durand_n the_o late_a then_o you_o agree_v not_o whether_o the_o soul_n of_o christ_n do_v descend_v real_o and_o in_o essence_n into_o the_o low_a pit_n of_o hell_n and_o place_n of_o the_o damn_a as_o 16_o bellarmine_n once_o hold_v probable_a and_o prove_v it_o or_o real_o only_a into_o that_o place_n or_o region_n of_o hell_n which_o you_o call_v limbum_fw-la patrum_fw-la and_o then_o but_o virtual_o from_o thence_o into_o the_o low_a hell_n to_o which_o 11._o bellarmine_n reduce_v himself_o and_o give_v his_o reason_n because_o it_o be_v the_o 2._o common_a opinion_n of_o the_o school_n now_o the_o church_n of_o england_n take_v the_o word_n as_o they_o be_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o believe_v they_o without_o far_a dispute_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n which_o the_o ancient_a primitive_a father_n of_o the_o church_n agree_v in_o and_o yet_o if_o any_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v not_o be_v thorough_o resolve_v in_o the_o sense_n of_o this_o article_n be_v it_o not_o as_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o say_v i_o conceive_v thus_o or_o thus_o of_o it_o yet_o if_o any_o other_o way_n of_o his_o descent_n be_v find_v true_a than_o this_o i_o deny_v it_o not_o but_o as_o yet_o i_o know_v no_o other_o as_o it_o be_v for_o 9_o durand_n to_o say_v it_o and_o yet_o not_o impeach_v the_o foundation_n of_o the_o faith_n f._n the_o bishop_n say_v that_o m._n rogers_n be_v but_o a_o private_a man_n but_o say_v i_o if_o m._n rogers_n write_v as_o he_o do_v by_o public_a authority_n be_v account_v only_o a_o private_a man_n etc._n etc._n b._n §_o 13_o num._n 1_o i_o say_v truth_n when_o i_o say_v m._n rogers_n be_v a_o private_a man_n and_o i_o take_v it_o you_o will_v not_o allow_v every_o speech_n of_o every_o 〈…〉_z though_o allow_v by_o authority_n to_o have_v his_o book_n print_v to_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v this_o have_v be_v oft_o complain_v of_o on_o both_o side_n the_o impose_v particular_a man_n assertion_n upon_o the_o church_n yet_o i_o see_v you_o mean_v not_o to_o leave_v it_o and_o sure_o as_o controversy_n be_v now_o handle_v by_o some_o of_o your_o party_n at_o this_o day_n i_o may_v not_o say_v it_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o article_n in_o hand_n but_o i_o have_v long_o think_v it_o a_o kind_n of_o descent_n into_o hell_n to_o be_v conversant_a in_o they_o i_o will_v the_o author_n will_v take_v heed_n in_o time_n and_o not_o seek_v to_o blind_v the_o people_n or_o cast_v a_o mist_n before_o evident_a truth_n lest_o it_o cause_v a_o final_a descent_n to_o that_o place_n of_o torment_n but_o since_o you_o will_v hold_v this_o course_n stapleton_n be_v of_o great_a note_n with_o you_o than_o m._n rogers_n his_o exposition_n or_o note_n upon_o the_o article_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v with_o we_o and_o as_o he_o so_o his_o relection_n and_o be_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o stapleton_n affirm_v 1._o the_o scripture_n be_v silent_a that_o christ_n descend_v into_o hell_n and_o that_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_a and_o a_o apostolic_a church_n if_o it_o be_v then_o what_o will_v become_v of_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n over_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v he_o have_v his_o power_n over_o the_o catholic_a church_n give_v he_o express_o in_o scripture_n in_o the_o 9_o key_n to_o enter_v and_o in_o 16._o pasce_fw-la to_o feed_v when_o he_o be_v in_o and_o when_o he_o have_v feed_v to_o 32._o confirm_v and_o in_o all_o these_o not_o to_o err_v and_o fail_v in_o his_o ministration_n and_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n in_o and_o over_o which_o he_o be_v to_o do_v all_o these_o great_a thing_n quite_o leave_v out_o of_o the_o scripture_n belike_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v careful_a to_o give_v he_o his_o power_n yes_o in_o any_o case_n but_o leave_v the_o assign_v of_o his_o great_a cure_n the_o catholic_a church_n to_o tradition_n and_o it_o be_v well_o for_o he_o if_o he_o can_v so_o 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the_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n a._n c._n may_v undoubted_o urge_v m._n rogers_n if_o he_o please_v but_o he_o ought_v not_o to_o say_v that_o his_o opinion_n be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o neither_o of_o the_o reason_n by_o he_o express_v first_o not_o because_o his_o book_n be_v public_o allow_v for_o many_o book_n among_o they_o as_o well_o as_o among_o we_o have_v be_v print_v by_o public_a authority_n as_o contain_v nothing_o in_o they_o contrary_a to_o faith_n and_o good_a manner_n and_o yet_o contain_v many_o thing_n in_o they_o of_o opinion_n only_o or_o private_a judgement_n which_o yet_o be_v far_o from_o the_o avow_a positive_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n the_o church_n have_v as_o yet_o determine_v neither_o way_n by_o open_a declaration_n upon_o the_o word_n or_o thing_n controvert_v and_o this_o be_v more_o frequent_a among_o their_o schoolman_n than_o among_o any_o of_o our_o controverser_n as_o be_v well_o know_v nor_o second_o because_o his_o book_n bear_v the_o title_n of_o the_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o suppose_v the_o worst_a and_o say_v m._n rogers_n think_v a_o little_a too_o well_o of_o his_o own_o pain_n and_o give_v his_o book_n too_o high_a a_o title_n be_v his_o private_a judgement_n therefore_o to_o be_v account_v the_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n sure_o no_o no_o more_o than_o i_o shall_v say_v every_o thing_n say_v by_o summa_fw-la thomas_n or_o disputata_fw-la bonaventure_n be_v angelical_a or_o seraphical_a doctrine_n because_o one_o of_o these_o be_v style_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n seraphical_a and_o the_o other_o angetical_a doctor_n and_o yet_o their_o work_n be_v print_v by_o public_a authority_n and_o that_o title_n give_v they_o num._n 4_o yea_o but_o our_o private_a author_n say_v a._n c._n be_v not_o allow_v 47._o for_o aught_o i_o know_v in_o such_o a_o like_a sort_n to_o express_v our_o catholic_a doctrine_n in_o any_o matter_n subject_a to_o question_n here_o be_v two_o limitation_n which_o will_v go_v far_o to_o bring_v a._n c._n off_o whatsoever_o i_o shall_v say_v against_o he_o for_o first_o let_v i_o instance_n in_o any_o private_a man_n that_o take_v as_o much_o upon_o he_o as_o m._n rogers_n do_v he_o will_v say_v he_o know_v it_o not_o his_o assertion_n here_o be_v no_o other_o then_o for_o aught_o he_o know_v second_o if_o he_o be_v unwilling_a to_o acknowledge_v so_o much_o yet_o he_o will_v answer_v it_o be_v not_o just_a in_o such_o a_o like_a sort_n as_o m._n rogers_n do_v it_o that_o be_v perhaps_o it_o be_v not_o the_o very_a title_n of_o his_o book_n but_o well_o then_o be_v there_o never_o a_o private_a man_n allow_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o express_v your_o catholic_a doctrine_n in_o any_o matter_n subject_a to_o question_n what_o not_o in_o any_o matter_n be_v not_o vega_n and_o soto_n two_o private_a man_n be_v it_o not_o a_o matter_n subject_n to_o question_n to_o great_a question_n in_o these_o day_n whether_o a_o man_n may_v be_v certain_a of_o his_o be_v in_o the_o state_n of_o salvation_n certitudine_fw-la fidei_fw-la by_o the_o certainty_n of_o faith_n do_v not_o 14._o bellarmine_n make_v it_o a_o controversy_n and_o be_v it_o not_o a_o part_n of_o your_o catholic_a faith_n if_o it_o be_v determine_v in_o the_o tridentini_n council_n of_o trent_n and_o yet_o these_o two_o great_a friar_n of_o their_o time_n dominicus_n soto_n and_o andreas_n vega_n 1622._o be_v of_o contrary_a opinion_n and_o both_o of_o they_o challenge_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n and_o so_o consequent_o your_o catholic_a faith_n to_o be_v as_o each_o of_o
be_v grow_v now_o many_o of_o they_o very_o old_a and_o when_o error_n be_v grow_v by_o age_n and_o continuance_n to_o strength_n they_o which_o speak_v for_o the_o truth_n though_o it_o be_v far_o old_a be_v ordinary_o challenge_v for_o the_o bringer_n in_o of_o new_a opinion_n and_o there_o be_v no_o great_a absurdity_n stir_v this_o day_n in_o christendom_n than_o that_o the_o reformation_n of_o a_o old_a corrupt_a church_n will_v we_o â—ill_v we_o must_v be_v take_v for_o the_o building_n of_o a_o new_a and_o be_v not_o this_o so_o we_o shall_v never_o be_v trouble_v with_o that_o idle_a and_o impertinent_a question_n of_o they_o where_o be_v your_o church_n before_o luther_n for_o it_o be_v just_a there_o where_o they_o be_v now_o 11._o one_o and_o the_o same_o church_n still_o no_o doubt_n of_o that_o one_o in_o substance_n but_o not_o one_o in_o condition_n of_o state_n and_o purity_n their_o part_n of_o the_o same_o church_n remain_v in_o corruption_n and_o our_o part_n of_o the_o same_o church_n under_o reformation_n the_o same_o naaman_n and_o he_o a_o syrian_a still_o but_o leprous_a with_o they_o and_o cleanse_v with_o we_o the_o same_o man_n still_o and_o for_o the_o separatist_n and_o he_o that_o lay_v his_o ground_n for_o separation_n or_o change_n of_o discipline_n though_o all_o he_o say_v or_o can_v say_v be_v in_o truth_n of_o divinity_n and_o among_o learned_a man_n little_o better_a than_o ridiculous_a yet_o since_o these_o fond_a opinion_n have_v gain_v some_o ground_n among_o your_o people_n to_o such_o among_o they_o as_o be_v wilful_o seâ—_n to_o follow_v their_o blind_a guide_n through_o thick_a and_o thin_a till_o 14._o they_o fall_v into_o the_o ditch_n together_o i_o shall_v say_v nothing_o but_o for_o so_o many_o of_o they_o as_o mean_v well_o and_o be_v only_o mislead_v by_o artifice_n and_o cunning_a concern_v they_o i_o shall_v say_v thus_o much_o only_o they_o be_v bell_n of_o pass_v good_a mettle_n and_o tuneable_a enough_o of_o themselves_o and_o in_o their_o own_o disposition_n and_o a_o world_n of_o pity_n it_o be_v that_o they_o be_v ring_v so_o miserable_o out_o of_o tune_n as_o they_o be_v by_o they_o which_o have_v get_v power_n in_o and_o over_o their_o conscience_n and_o for_o this_o there_o be_v yet_o remedy_n enough_o but_o how_o long_o there_o will_v be_v i_o know_v not_o much_o talk_v there_o be_v brag_a your_o majesty_n may_v call_v it_o on_o both_o side_n and_o when_o they_o be_v in_o their_o ruff_n they_o both_o exceed_v all_o moderation_n and_o truth_n too_o so_o far_o till_o both_o lip_n and_o pen_n open_a for_o all_o the_o world_n like_o a_o purse_n without_o money_n nothing_o come_v out_o of_o this_o and_o that_o which_o be_v worth_a nothing_o out_o of_o they_o and_o yet_o this_o nothing_o be_v make_v so_o great_a as_o if_o the_o salvation_n of_o soul_n that_o great_a work_n of_o the_o redeemer_n of_o the_o world_n the_o son_n of_o god_n can_v not_o be_v effect_v without_o it_o and_o while_o the_o one_o faction_n cry_v up_o the_o church_n above_o the_o scripture_n and_o the_o other_o the_o scripture_n to_o the_o neglect_n and_o contempt_n of_o the_o church_n which_o the_o scripture_n itself_o teach_v man_n both_o to_o honour_v and_o obey_v they_o have_v so_o far_o endanger_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o one_o and_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o other_o as_o that_o neither_o have_v its_o due_a from_o a_o great_a part_n of_o men._n whereas_o according_a to_o christ_n institution_n the_o scripture_n where_o it_o be_v plain_a shall_v guide_v the_o church_n and_o the_o church_n be_v there_o be_v doubt_n or_o difficulty_n shall_v expound_v the_o scripture_n yet_o so_o as_o neither_o the_o scripture_n shall_v be_v force_v nor_o the_o church_n so_o bind_v up_o as_o that_o upon_o just_a and_o far_a evidence_n she_o may_v not_o revise_v that_o which_o in_o any_o case_n have_v slip_v by_o she_o what_o success_n this_o great_a distemper_n cause_v by_o the_o collision_n of_o two_o such_o faction_n may_v have_v i_o know_v not_o i_o can_v prophesy_v this_o i_o know_v that_o the_o use_n which_o wise_a man_n shall_v make_v of_o other_o man_n fall_n be_v not_o to_o fall_v with_o with_o they_o and_o the_o use_n which_o pious_a and_o religious_a man_n shall_v make_v of_o these_o great_a flaw_n in_o christianity_n be_v not_o to_o join_v with_o they_o that_o make_v they_o nor_o to_o help_v to_o dislocate_v those_o main_a bone_n in_o the_o body_n which_o be_v once_o put_v out_o of_o joint_n will_v not_o easy_o be_v set_v again_o and_o though_o i_o can_v prophesy_v yet_o i_o fear_v that_o atheism_n and_o irreligion_n gather_v strength_n while_o the_o truth_n be_v thus_o weaken_a by_o a_o unworthy_a way_n of_o contend_v for_o it_o and_o while_o they_o thus_o contend_v neither_o part_n consider_v that_o they_o be_v in_o a_o way_n to_o induce_v upon_o themselves_o and_o other_o that_o contrary_a extreme_a which_o they_o seem_v most_o both_o to_o fear_v and_o oppose_v beside_o this_o i_o have_v ever_o observe_v that_o many_o rigid_a professor_n have_v turn_v roman_a catholik_o and_o in_o that_o turn_v have_v be_v more_o jesuited_a than_o any_o other_o and_o such_o romanist_n as_o have_v change_v from_o they_o have_v for_o the_o most_o part_n quite_o leap_v over_o the_o mean_a and_o be_v as_o rigid_a the_o other_o way_n as_o extremity_n itself_o and_o this_o be_v there_o be_v not_o both_o grace_n and_o wisdom_n to_o govern_v it_o be_v a_o very_a natural_a motion_n for_o a_o man_n be_v apt_a to_o think_v he_o can_v never_o run_v far_o enough_o from_o that_o which_o he_o once_o begin_v to_o hate_v and_o do_v not_o consider_v therewhile_o that_o where_o religion_n corrupt_v be_v the_o thing_n he_o hate_v a_o fallacy_n may_v easy_o be_v put_v upon_o he_o for_o he_o ought_v to_o hate_v the_o corruption_n which_o deprave_v religion_n and_o to_o run_v from_o it_o but_o from_o no_o part_n of_o religion_n itself_o which_o he_o ought_v to_o love_n and_o reverence_n ought_v he_o to_o depart_v and_o this_o i_o have_v observe_v far_o that_o no_o one_o thing_n have_v make_v conscientious_a man_n more_o waver_v in_o their_o own_o mind_n or_o more_o apt_a and_o easy_a to_o be_v draw_v aside_o from_o the_o sincerity_n of_o religion_n profess_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o the_o want_n of_o uniform_a and_o decent_a order_n in_o too_o many_o church_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o the_o romanist_n have_v be_v apt_a to_o say_v the_o house_n of_o god_n can_v not_o be_v suffer_v to_o lie_v so_o nasty_o as_o in_o some_o place_n they_o have_v do_v be_v the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n observe_v in_o they_o or_o do_v the_o people_n think_v that_o such_o it_o be_v â—istrue_v the_o inward_a worship_n of_o the_o heart_n be_v the_o great_a service_n of_o god_n and_o no_o service_n acceptable_a without_o it_o but_o the_o external_n worship_n of_o god_n in_o his_o church_n be_v the_o great_a witness_n to_o the_o world_n that_o our_o heart_n stand_v right_a in_o that_o service_n of_o god_n take_v this_o away_o or_o bring_v it_o into_o contempt_n and_o what_o light_n be_v there_o left_a to_o shine_v before_o man_n that_o they_o may_v see_v our_o devotion_n and_o glorify_v our_o father_n which_o be_v in_o heaven_n and_o to_o deal_v clear_o with_o your_o majesty_n these_o thought_n be_v they_o and_o no_o other_o which_o have_v make_v i_o labour_v so_o much_o as_o i_o have_v do_v for_o decency_n and_o a_o orderly_a settlement_n of_o the_o external_n worship_n of_o god_n in_o the_o church_n for_o of_o that_o which_o be_v inward_a there_o can_v be_v no_o witness_n among_o man_n nor_o no_o example_n for_o man_n now_o no_o external_n action_n in_o the_o world_n can_v be_v uniform_a without_o some_o ceremony_n and_o these_o in_o religion_n the_o ancient_a they_o be_v the_o better_a so_o they_o may_v fit_v time_n and_o place_n too_o many_o over-burden_n the_o service_n of_o god_n and_o too_o few_o leave_n it_o naked_a and_o scarce_o any_o thing_n have_v hurt_v religion_n more_o in_o these_o break_a time_n than_o a_o opinion_n in_o too_o many_o man_n that_o because_o rome_n have_v thrust_v some_o unnecessary_a and_o many_o superstitious_a ceremony_n upon_o the_o church_n therefore_o the_o reformation_n must_v have_v none_o at_o all_o not_o consider_v therewhile_o that_o ceremony_n be_v the_o hedge_n that_o fence_v the_o substance_n of_o religion_n from_o all_o the_o indignity_n which_o profaneness_n and_o sacrilege_n too_o common_o put_v upon_o it_o and_o a_o great_a weakness_n it_o be_v not_o to_o see_v the_o strength_n which_o ceremony_n thing_n weak_a enough_o in_o themselves_o god_n know_v add_v even_o to_o religion_n itself_o but_o a_o far_o great_a to_o see_v it_o and_o yet_o to_o cry_v they_o down_o all_z
they_o conclude_v and_o both_o of_o they_o write_v book_n to_o maintain_v their_o opinion_n and_o both_o of_o their_o book_n be_v publish_v by_o authority_n and_o therefore_o i_o think_v it_o be_v allow_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o private_a man_n to_o express_v your_o catholic_a doctrine_n and_o in_o a_o matter_n subject_n to_o question_n and_o therefore_o also_o if_o another_o man_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v be_v of_o a_o contrary_a opinion_n to_o m._n rogers_n and_o declare_v it_o under_o the_o title_n of_o the_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n this_o be_v no_o more_o than_o soto_n and_o vega_n do_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o i_o for_o my_o part_n can_v but_o wonder_v a._n c._n shall_v not_o know_v it_o for_o 47._o he_o say_v that_o for_o aught_o he_o know_v private_a man_n be_v not_o allow_v so_o to_o express_v their_o catholic_a doctrine_n and_o in_o the_o same_o question_v both_o catharinus_n and_o bellarmine_n 3._o take_v on_o they_o to_o express_v your_o catholic_a faith_n the_o one_o differ_v from_o the_o other_o almost_o as_o much_o as_o soto_n and_o vega_n and_o perhaps_o in_o some_o respect_n more_o f._n but_o if_o m._n rogers_n be_v only_o a_o private_a man_n in_o what_o book_n may_v we_o find_v the_o protestant_n public_a doctrine_n the_o bishop_n answer_v that_o to_o the_o book_n of_o article_n they_o be_v all_o swear_v b._n §_o 14_o num._n 1_o what_o be_v i_o so_o ignorant_a to_o say_v the_o article_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v the_o public_a doctrine_n of_o all_o the_o protestant_n or_o that_o all_o the_o protestant_n be_v swear_v to_o the_o article_n of_o england_n as_o this_o speech_n seem_v to_o imply_v sure_o i_o be_v not_o be_v not_o the_o immediate_a speech_n before_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o how_o come_v the_o subject_a of_o the_o speech_n to_o be_v vary_v in_o the_o next_o line_n nor_o yet_o speak_v i_o this_o as_o if_o other_o protestant_n do_v not_o agree_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o the_o chief_a doctrine_n and_o in_o the_o main_a exception_n which_o they_o joint_o take_v against_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o appear_v by_o their_o several_a confession_n but_o if_o a._n c._n will_v 47._o say_v as_o he_o do_v that_o because_o there_o be_v speech_n before_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o jesuit_n understand_v i_o in_o a_o limit_a sense_n and_o mean_v only_o the_o protestant_n of_o the_o english_a church_n be_v it_o so_o there_o be_v no_o great_a harm_n do_v 48._o but_o this_o that_o the_o jesuit_n offer_v to_o enclose_v i_o too_o much_o for_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o the_o book_n of_o article_n only_o be_v the_o continent_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n public_a doctrine_n she_o be_v not_o so_o narrow_a nor_o have_v she_o purpose_n to_o exclude_v any_o thing_n which_o she_o acknowledge_v she_o nor_o do_v she_o witting_o permit_v any_o cross_v of_o her_o public_a declaration_n yet_o she_o be_v not_o such_o a_o shrew_n to_o her_o child_n as_o to_o deny_v her_o blessing_n or_o denounce_v a_o anathema_n against_o they_o if_o some_o peaceable_o dissent_v in_o some_o particular_n remote_a from_o the_o foundation_n as_o your_o own_o schoolman_n differ_v and_o if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n since_o she_o grow_v to_o her_o greatness_n have_v not_o be_v so_o fierce_a in_o this_o course_n and_o too_o particular_a in_o determine_v too_o many_o thing_n and_o make_v they_o matter_n of_o necessary_a belief_n which_o have_v go_v for_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n before_o only_o for_o thing_n of_o pious_a opinion_n christendom_n i_o persuade_v myself_o have_v be_v in_o happy_a peace_n at_o this_o day_n than_o i_o doubt_v we_o shall_v ever_o live_v to_o see_v it_o num._n 2_o well_o but_o a._n c._n will_v prove_v the_o church_n of_o england_n a_o shrew_n 48._o and_o such_o a_o shrew_n for_o in_o her_o book_n 5._o of_o canon_n she_o excommunicate_v every_o man_n who_o shall_v hold_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o any_o part_n of_o the_o say_a article_n so_o a._n c._n but_o sure_o these_o be_v not_o the_o very_a word_n of_o the_o canon_n nor_o perhaps_o the_o sense_n not_o the_o word_n for_o they_o be_v whosoever_o shall_v affirm_v that_o the_o article_n be_v in_o any_o part_n superstitious_a or_o erroneous_a etc._n etc._n and_o perhaps_o not_o the_o sense_n for_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n for_o a_o man_n to_o hold_v a_o opinion_n private_o within_o himself_o and_o another_o thing_n bold_o and_o public_o to_o affirm_v it_o and_o again_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o hold_v contrary_a to_o some_o part_n of_o a_o article_n which_o perhaps_o may_v be_v but_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o expression_n and_o another_o thing_n positive_o to_o affirm_v that_o the_o article_n in_o any_o part_n of_o they_o be_v superstitious_a and_o erroneous_a but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o main_n of_o the_o business_n for_o though_o the_o church_n of_o england_n denounce_v excommunication_n as_o be_v 5._o before_o express_v yet_o she_o come_v far_o short_a of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n severity_n who_o anathema_n be_v not_o only_o for_o 39_o article_n but_o for_o very_a many_o more_o trident_n above_o one_o hundred_o in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o that_o in_o many_o point_n as_o far_o remote_a from_o the_o foundation_n though_o to_o the_o far_o great_a rack_n of_o man_n conscience_n they_o must_v be_v all_o make_v fundamental_a if_o that_o church_n have_v once_o determine_v 45._o they_o whereas_o the_o church_n of_o england_n never_o declare_v that_o every_o one_o of_o her_o article_n be_v fundamental_a in_o the_o faith_n for_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o say_v no_o one_o of_o they_o be_v superstitious_a or_o erroneous_a and_o quite_o another_o to_o say_v every_o one_o of_o they_o be_v fundamental_a and_o that_o in_o every_o part_n of_o it_o to_o all_o man_n belief_n beside_o the_o church_n of_o england_n prescribe_v only_o to_o her_o own_o child_n and_o by_o those_o article_n provide_v but_o for_o she_o own_o peaceable_a consent_n in_o those_o doctrine_n of_o truth_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n severe_o impose_v her_o doctrine_n upon_o the_o whole_a world_n under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n f._n and_o that_o the_o scripture_n only_o not_o any_o unwritten_a tradition_n be_v the_o foundation_n of_o their_o faith_n b._n §_o 15_o num._n 1_o the_o church_n of_o england_n ground_v her_o positive_a article_n upon_o scripture_n and_o her_o negative_a do_v refute_v there_o where_o the_o thing_n affirm_v by_o you_o be_v not_o affirm_v by_o scripture_n nor_o direct_o to_o be_v conclude_v out_o of_o it_o and_o here_o not_o the_o church_n of_o england_n only_o but_o all_o protestant_n agree_v most_o true_o and_o most_o strong_o in_o this_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v sufficient_a to_o salvation_n and_o contain_v in_o it_o all_o thing_n necessary_a to_o it_o the_o father_n again_o be_v plain_a the_o word_n schoolman_n not_o stranger_n in_o it_o and_o have_v not_o we_o reason_n then_o to_o account_v it_o as_o it_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o fine_a stapleton_n himself_o though_o a_o angry_a opposite_a confess_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v in_o some_o sort_n the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v in_o the_o nature_n of_o testimony_n and_o in_o the_o matter_n or_o thing_n to_o be_v believe_v and_o if_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o foundation_n to_o which_o we_o be_v to_o go_v for_o witness_n if_o there_o be_v doubt_v about_o the_o faith_n and_o in_o which_o we_o be_v to_o find_v the_o thing_n that_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v as_o necessary_a in_o the_o faith_n we_o never_o do_v nor_o never_o will_v refuse_v any_o tradition_n that_o be_v universal_a and_o apostolic_a for_o the_o better_a exposition_n of_o the_o scripture_n nor_o any_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o which_o she_o go_v to_o the_o scripture_n for_o what_o she_o teach_v and_o thrust_v nothing_o as_o fundamental_a in_o the_o faith_n upon_o the_o world_n but_o what_o the_o scripture_n fundamental_o make_v materiam_fw-la credendorum_fw-la the_o substance_n of_o that_o which_o be_v so_o to_o be_v believe_v whether_o immediate_o and_o express_o in_o word_n or_o more_o remote_o where_o a_o clear_a and_o full_a deduction_n draw_v it_o out_o num._n 2_o against_o the_o beginning_n of_o this_o paragraph_n a._n c._n except_v and_o first_o 48._o he_o say_v it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n ground_v her_o positive_a article_n upon_o scripture_n that_o be_v it_o be_v true_a if_o themselves_o may_v be_v competent_a judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n but_o this_o by_o the_o leave_n of_o a._n c._n be_v true_a without_o make_v ourselves_o judge_n in_o our_o own_o cause_n for_o that_o all_o the_o positive_a article_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o
whereas_o i_o say_v the_o lady_n will_v far_v more_o easy_o be_v able_a to_o answer_v for_o her_o come_n to_o church_n than_o for_o she_o leave_v the_o 73._o church_n of_o england_n to_o this_o a._n c._n except_v and_o say_v that_o i_o neither_o prove_v nor_o can_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o one_o persuade_v especial_o as_o the_o lady_n be_v to_o go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o cunning_a and_o as_o much_o malice_n in_o this_o passage_n but_o i_o shall_v easy_o pluck_v the_o sting_n out_o of_o the_o tail_n of_o this_o wisp_n and_o first_o i_o have_v prove_v it_o already_o through_o this_o whole_a discourse_n and_o therefore_o can_v prove_v it_o that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v a_o orthodox_n church_n and_o therefore_o with_o the_o same_o labour_n it_o be_v prove_v that_o man_n may_v lawful_o go_v unto_o it_o and_o communicate_v with_o it_o for_o so_o a_o man_n not_o only_o may_v but_o aught_o to_o do_v with_o a_o orthodox_n church_n and_o a_o romanist_n may_v communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n without_o any_o offence_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n thereby_o incur_v but_o if_o his_o conscience_n through_o misinformation_n check_v at_o it_o he_o shall_v do_v well_o in_o that_o case_n rather_o to_o inform_v his_o conscience_n than_o forsake_v any_o orthodox_n church_n whatsoever_o second_o a._n c._n tell_v i_o plain_o that_o i_o can_v prove_v that_o a_o man_n so_o persuade_v as_o the_o lady_n be_v may_v go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n that_o be_v that_o a_o roman_a catholic_a may_n not_o go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n why_o i_o never_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o roman_a catholic_a being_n and_o continue_v such_o may_v against_o his_o conscience_n go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n for_o these_o word_n a_o man_n persuade_v as_o the_o lady_n be_v be_v a._n c_n word_n they_o be_v not_o i_o i_o be_v not_o simple_o that_o the_o lady_n may_v or_o that_o she_o may_v not_o but_o comparative_a they_o be_v that_o she_o may_v more_o easy_o answer_v to_o god_n for_o come_v to_o than_o for_o go_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o that_o be_v every_o way_n most_o true_a for_o in_o this_o doubtful_a time_n of_o she_o when_o upon_o my_o reason_n give_v she_o go_v again_o to_o church_n when_o yet_o soon_o after_o as_o you_o say_v at_o least_o she_o be_v sorry_a for_o it_o i_o say_v at_o this_o time_n she_o be_v in_o heart_n and_o resolution_n a_o romano_n catholic_a or_o she_o be_v not_o if_o she_o be_v not_o as_o it_o seem_v by_o she_o doubt_v she_o be_v not_o then_o full_o resolve_v than_o my_o speech_n be_v most_o true_a that_o she_o may_v more_o easy_o answer_n god_n for_o come_v to_o service_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o for_o leave_v it_o for_o a_o protestant_n she_o have_v be_v and_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v at_o the_o end_n of_o this_o conference_n so_o she_o be_v and_o than_o it_o be_v no_o sin_n in_o itself_o to_o come_v to_o a_o orthodox_n church_n nor_o no_o sin_n against_o her_o conscience_n she_o continue_v a_o protestant_n for_o aught_o which_o then_o appear_v to_o i_o but_o if_o she_o than_o be_v a_o roman_a catholic_a as_o the_o jesuit_n and_o a._n c._n seem_v confident_a she_o be_v yet_o my_o speech_n be_v true_a too_o for_o than_o she_o may_v more_o easy_o answer_n god_n for_o come_v to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o be_v orthodox_n and_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o be_v superstitious_a than_o by_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o england_n communicate_v with_o all_o the_o superstition_n of_o rome_n now_o the_o cunning_a and_o the_o malignity_n of_o a._n c._n lie_v in_o this_o he_o will_v fain_o have_v the_o world_n think_v that_o i_o be_o so_o indifferent_a in_o religion_n as_o that_o i_o do_v maintain_v the_o lady_n be_v conscientious_o persuade_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o romish_a doctrine_n may_v yet_o against_o both_o her_o conscience_n and_o against_o open_a and_o avow_a profession_n come_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n num._n 3_o nevertheless_o in_o hope_n his_o cunning_a malice_n will_v not_o be_v discover_v against_o this_o his_o own_o sense_n that_o be_v and_o not_o i_o he_o bring_v divers_a reason_n as_o first_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o one_o affect_v as_o that_o lady_n be_v that_o be_v for_o one_o that_o be_v resolve_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o go_v to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n there_o and_o in_o that_o manner_n to_o serve_v and_o worship_n god_n because_o say_v a._n c._n that_o be_v to_o halt_v on_o both_o side_n to_o serve_v two_o master_n â—3_n and_o to_o dissemble_v with_o god_n and_o the_o world_n true_o i_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n with_o he_o and_o that_o therefore_o neither_o may_v a_o protestant_n that_o be_v resolve_v in_o conscience_n that_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o true_a faith_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n go_v to_o the_o romish_a church_n there_o and_o in_o that_o manner_n to_o serve_v and_o worship_v god_n neither_o need_v i_o give_v other_o answer_n because_o a._n c._n urge_v this_o against_o his_o own_o fiction_n not_o my_o assertion_n yet_o since_o he_o will_v so_o do_v i_o shall_v give_v a_o particular_a answer_n to_o each_o of_o they_o and_o to_o this_o first_o reason_n of_o he_o i_o say_v thus_o that_o to_o believe_v religion_n after_o one_o sort_n and_o to_o practice_v it_o after_o another_o and_o that_o in_o the_o main_a point_n of_o worship_n the_o sacrament_n and_o invocation_n be_v to_o halt_v on_o both_o side_n to_o serve_v two_o master_n and_o to_o dissemble_v with_o god_n and_o the_o world_n and_o other_o than_o this_o i_o never_o teach_v nor_o ever_o say_v that_o which_o may_v infer_v the_o contrary_a but_o a._n c._n give_v i_o leave_v to_o tell_v you_o your_o fellow_n jesuit_n 1616._o azorius_fw-la affirm_v this_o in_o express_a term_n and_o what_o do_v you_o think_v can_v he_o prove_v it_o nay_o not_o azorius_fw-la only_a but_o other_o priest_n and_o jesuit_n here_o in_o england_n either_o teach_v some_o of_o their_o proselyte_n or_o else_o some_o of_o they_o learn_v it_o without_o teach_v that_o though_o they_o be_v persuade_v as_o this_o lady_n be_v that_o be_v though_o they_o be_v roman_a catholic_n yet_o either_o to_o gain_v honour_n or_o save_v their_o purse_n they_o may_v go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n just_a as_o the_o jesuit_n here_o say_v the_o lady_n do_v out_o of_o frailty_n and_o fear_n to_o offend_v the_o king_n therefore_o i_o pray_v a._n c._n if_o this_o be_v gross_a dissimulation_n both_o with_o god_n and_o the_o world_n speak_v to_o your_o fellow_n to_o leave_v persuade_v or_o practise_v of_o it_o and_o leave_v man_n in_o the_o profession_n of_o religion_n to_o be_v as_o they_o seem_v or_o to_o seem_v and_o appear_v as_o they_o be_v let_v we_o have_v no_o mask_n wear_v here_o a._n c_n second_o reason_n why_o one_o so_o persuade_v as_o that_o lady_n be_v may_v not_o go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v because_o that_o be_v outward_o to_o profess_v 73._o a_o religion_n in_o conscience_n know_v to_o be_v false_a to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v true_a it_o concern_v all_o man_n as_o well_o as_o those_o that_o be_v persuade_v as_o the_o lady_n be_v for_o no_o man_n may_v outward_o profess_v a_o religion_n in_o conscience_n know_v to_o be_v false_a for_o with_o the_o heart_n man_n believe_v to_o righteousness_n and_o with_o the_o mouth_n he_o confess_v to_o salvation_n rom._n 10._o now_o to_o his_o own_o 10._o salvation_n no_o man_n can_v confess_v a_o know_v false_a religion_n second_o if_o the_o religion_n of_o the_o protestant_n be_v in_o conscience_n a_o know_a false_a religion_n than_o the_o romanist_n religion_n be_v so_o too_o for_o their_o religion_n be_v the_o same_o nor_o do_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o protestant_n set_v up_o a_o different_a religion_n for_o the_o christian_a religion_n be_v the_o same_o to_o both_o but_o they_o differ_v in_o the_o same_o religion_n and_o the_o difference_n be_v in_o certain_a gross_a corruption_n to_o the_o very_a endanger_n of_o salvation_n which_o each_o side_n say_v the_o other_o be_v guilty_a of_o three_o the_o reason_n give_v be_v most_o untrue_a for_o it_o may_v appear_v by_o all_o the_o former_a discourse_n to_o any_o indifferent_a reader_n that_o religion_n as_o it_o be_v profess_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v near_a of_o any_o church_n now_o in_o be_v to_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o therefore_o not_o a_o religion_n know_v to_o be_v false_a and_o this_o i_o both_o do_v and_o can_v prove_v be_v not_o the_o deafness_n of_o the_o asp_n upon_o the_o
her_o corruption_n be_v part_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n of_o christ._n so_o the_o whole_a passage_n be_v a_o mere_a beg_n of_o the_o question_n and_o then_o threaten_v upon_o it_o without_o all_o ground_n of_o reason_n or_o charity_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n let_v a._n c._n look_v to_o himself_o that_o in_o his_o false_a security_n he_o run_v not_o into_o the_o danger_n and_o loss_n of_o his_o own_o salvation_n while_o he_o will_v seem_v to_o take_v such_o care_n of_o we_o but_o though_o this_o argument_n prevail_v with_o the_o weak_a yet_o it_o be_v much_o strong_a in_o the_o cunning_a than_o the_o true_a force_n of_o it_o for_o all_o argument_n be_v very_o move_v that_o lie_v their_o ground_n upon_o simpliciter_fw-la the_o adversary_n confession_n especial_o if_o it_o be_v confess_v and_o avouch_v to_o be_v true_a but_o if_o you_o will_v speak_v true_o and_o say_v many_o protestant_n indeed_o confess_v there_o be_v salvation_n possible_a to_o be_v attain_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o yet_o they_o say_v withal_o that_o the_o error_n of_o that_o church_n be_v so_o many_o 2d_o and_o some_o so_o great_a as_o weaken_v the_o foundation_n that_o it_o be_v very_o hard_a to_o go_v that_o way_n to_o heaven_n especial_o to_o they_o that_o have_v have_v the_o truth_n manifest_v the_o heart_n of_o this_o argument_n be_v utter_o break_v beside_o the_o force_n of_o this_o argument_n lie_v upon_o two_o thing_n one_o direct_o express_v the_o other_o but_o as_o upon_o the_o by._n num._n 3_o that_o which_o be_v express_v be_v we_o and_o our_o adversary_n consent_v that_o there_o be_v salvation_n to_o some_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n what_o will_v you_o have_v we_o as_o malicious_a at_o least_o as_o rash_a as_o yourselves_o be_v to_o we_o and_o deny_v you_o so_o much_o as_o possibility_n of_o salvation_n if_o we_o shall_v we_o may_v make_v you_o in_o some_o thing_n strain_v for_o a_o proof_n but_o we_o have_v not_o so_o learned_a christ_n as_o either_o to_o return_v evil_a for_o evil_n in_o this_o heady_a course_n or_o to_o deny_v salvation_n to_o some_o ignorant_a silly_a soul_n who_o humble_a peaceable_a obedience_n make_v they_o safe_a among_o any_o part_n of_o man_n that_o profess_v the_o foundation_n christ_n and_o therefore_o seek_v not_o to_o help_v our_o cause_n by_o deny_v this_o comfort_n to_o silly_a christian_n as_o you_o most_o fierce_o do_v where_o you_o can_v come_v to_o work_v upon_o they_o and_o this_o be_v a_o old_a trick_n of_o the_o donatist_n for_o in_o the_o point_n of_o baptism_n whether_o that_o sacrament_n be_v true_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n or_o in_o the_o part_n of_o donatus_n they_o exhort_v all_o to_o be_v baptize_v among_o they_o why_o because_o both_o part_n grant_v that_o baptism_n be_v true_a among_o the_o donatist_n which_o that_o peevish_a sect_n most_o unjust_o deny_v the_o sound_a part_n as_o 3._o s._n augustine_n deliver_v it_o i_o will_v ask_v now_o have_v not_o the_o orthodox_n true_a baptism_n among_o they_o because_o the_o donatist_n deny_v it_o injurious_o or_o shall_v the_o orthodox_n against_o truth_n have_v deny_v baptism_n among_o the_o donatist_n either_o to_o cry_v quittance_n with_o they_o or_o that_o their_o argument_n may_v not_o be_v the_o strong_a because_o both_o part_n grant_v but_o mark_v this_o how_o far_o you_o run_v from_o all_o common_a principle_n of_o christian_a peace_n as_o well_o as_o christian_a truth_n while_o you_o deny_v salvation_n most_o unjust_o to_o we_o from_o which_o you_o be_v far_o off_o yourselves_o beside_o if_o this_o be_v or_o can_v be_v make_v a_o conclude_a argument_n i_o pray_v why_o do_v not_o you_o believe_v with_o we_o in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o eucharist_n for_o all_o side_n agree_v in_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o in_o the_o most_o bless_a sacrament_n the_o worthy_a receiver_n be_v by_o his_o 8._o faith_n make_v spiritual_o partaker_n of_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n etc._n true_o and_o real_o and_o of_o all_o the_o benefit_n of_o his_o passion_n your_o roman_a catholic_n add_v a_o manner_n of_o this_o his_o prefence_n transubstantiation_n which_o many_o deny_v and_o the_o lutheran_n a_o manner_n of_o this_o presence_n consubstantiation_n which_o more_o deny_v if_o this_o argument_n be_v good_a then_o even_o for_o this_o consent_n it_o be_v safe_a communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o with_o the_o roman_a or_o lutheran_n because_o all_o agree_v in_o this_o truth_n not_o in_o any_o other_o opinion_n nay_o 2._o suarez_n himself_o and_o he_o a_o very_a learned_a adversary_n what_o say_v you_o to_o this_o a._n c_o do_v truth_n force_v this_o 65._o from_o he_o confess_v plain_o that_o to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n be_v not_o simple_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o yet_o he_o know_v well_o the_o church_n have_v determine_v it_o and_o colligimus_fw-la bellarmine_n after_o a_o intricate_a tedious_a and_o almost_o inexplicable_a discourse_n about_o a_o aductive_a conversion_n a_o thing_n which_o neither_o divinity_n nor_o philosophy_n ever_o hear_v of_o till_o then_o be_v at_o last_o force_v to_o come_v to_o this_o 3._o whatsoever_o be_v concern_v the_o manner_n and_o form_n of_o speech_n illud_fw-la tenendum_fw-la eâ—t_fw-la this_o be_v to_o be_v hold_v that_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o body_n and_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v substantial_a but_o after_o a_o secret_a and_o ineffable_a manner_n and_o not_o like_a in_o all_o thing_n to_o any_o natural_a conversion_n whatsoever_o now_o if_o he_o have_v leave_v out_o conversion_n and_o affirm_v only_a christ_n real_a presence_n there_o after_o a_o mysterious_a and_o indeed_o a_o ineffable_a manner_n no_o man_n can_v have_v speak_v better_a and_o therefore_o if_o you_o will_v force_v the_o argument_n always_o to_o make_v that_o the_o safe_a way_n of_o salvation_n which_o differ_v party_n agree_v on_o why_o do_v you_o not_o yield_v to_o the_o force_n of_o the_o same_o argument_n in_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o sacrament_n one_o of_o the_o most_o immediate_a mean_n of_o salvation_n where_o not_o only_o the_o most_o but_o all_o agree_v and_o your_o own_o great_a clark_n can_v tell_v what_o to_o say_v to_o the_o contrary_a num._n 4_o i_o speak_v here_o for_o the_o force_n of_o the_o argument_n which_o certain_o in_o itself_o be_v nothing_o though_o by_o a._n c._n make_v of_o great_a account_n 64._o for_o he_o say_v it_o be_v a_o confession_n of_o adversary_n extort_a by_o truth_n just_o as_o 6._o petilian_n the_o donatist_n brag_v in_o the_o case_n of_o baptism_n but_o in_o truth_n it_o be_v nothing_o for_o the_o syllogism_n which_o it_o frame_v be_v this_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v that_o way_n which_o the_o differ_a party_n agree_v on_o but_o papist_n and_o protestant_n which_o be_v the_o differ_a party_n agree_v in_o this_o that_o there_o be_v salvation_n possible_a to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n therefore_o it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o be_v and_o continue_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o the_o minor_a proposition_n then_o i_o observe_v this_o only_a that_o though_o many_o learned_a protestant_n grant_v this_o all_o do_v not_o and_o then_o that_o proposition_n be_v not_o universal_o true_a nor_o able_a to_o sustain_v the_o conclusion_n for_o they_o do_v not_o in_o this_o all_o agree_v nay_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o there_o be_v some_o protestant_n which_o can_v and_o do_v as_o stiff_o and_o as_o churlish_o deny_v they_o salvation_n as_o they_o do_v we_o and_o a._n c._n shall_v do_v well_o to_o consider_v whether_o they_o do_v it_o not_o upon_o as_o good_a reason_n at_o least_o but_o for_o the_o major_a proposition_n namely_o that_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v that_o way_n which_o the_o adversary_n confess_v or_o the_o differ_v party_n agree_v on_o i_o say_v that_o be_v no_o metaphysical_a principle_n but_o a_o bare_a contingent_a proposition_n and_o be_v indefinite_o take_v may_v be_v true_a or_o false_a as_o the_o matter_n be_v to_o which_o it_o be_v apply_v but_o be_v take_v universal_o be_v false_a and_o not_o able_a to_o lead_v in_o the_o conclusion_n now_o that_o this_o proposition_n in_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v that_o way_n which_o the_o differ_a party_n agree_v on_o or_o which_o the_o adversary_n confess_v have_v no_o strength_n in_o itself_o but_o be_v sometime_o true_a and_o sometime_o false_a as_o the_o matter_n be_v about_o which_o it_o be_v conversant_a be_v most_o evident_a first_o by_o reason_n because_o consent_v of_o disagree_a party_n be_v neither_o rule_n nor_o proof_n of_o truth_n for_o herod_n and_o
calvinist_n if_o they_o may_v be_v right_o understand_v they_o also_o maintain_v a_o most_o true_a and_o real_a presence_n though_o they_o can_v permit_v their_o judgement_n to_o be_v transubstantiate_v and_o they_o be_v protestant_n too_o and_o this_o be_v so_o know_v a_o truth_n that_o ‖_o bellarmine_n ibid._n confess_v it_o for_o he_o say_v protestant_n do_v often_o grant_v that_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o he_o add_v that_o they_o never_o say_v so_o far_o as_o he_o have_v read_v that_o it_o be_v there_o true_o and_o real_o unless_o they_o speak_v of_o the_o supper_n which_o shall_v be_v in_o heaven_n well_o first_o if_o they_o grant_v that_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o that_o bless_a sacrament_n as_o bellarmine_n confess_v they_o do_v and_o it_o be_v most_o true_a then_o a._n c._n be_v false_a 65._o who_o charge_v all_o the_o protestant_n with_o denial_n or_o doubtfulness_n in_o this_o point_n and_o second_o bellarmine_n himself_o also_o show_v here_o his_o ignorance_n or_o his_o malice_n ignorance_n if_o he_o know_v it_o not_o malice_n if_o he_o will_v not_o know_v it_o for_o the_o calvinist_n at_o least_o they_o which_o follow_v calvin_n himself_o do_v not_o only_o believe_v that_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n of_o christ_n be_v receive_v in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o that_o it_o be_v there_o and_o that_o we_o partake_v of_o it_o verè_fw-la &_o realitèr_fw-la which_o be_v 3._o calvin_n own_o word_n and_o yet_o bellarmine_n bold_o affirm_v that_o to_o his_o read_n no_o one_o protestant_n do_v ever_o affirm_v it_o and_o i_o for_o my_o part_n can_v believe_v but_o bellarmine_n have_v read_v calvin_n and_o very_o careful_o he_o do_v so_o frequent_o and_o so_o main_o oppose_v he_o nor_o can_v that_o place_n by_o any_o art_n be_v shift_v or_o by_o any_o violence_n wrest_v from_o calvin_n true_a meaning_n of_o the_o presence_n of_o christ_n in_o and_o at_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n to_o any_o supper_n in_o heaven_n whatsoever_o but_o most_o manifest_a it_o be_v that_o quod_fw-la legerim_fw-la for_o aught_o i_o have_v read_v will_v not_o serve_v bellarmine_n to_o excuse_v he_o for_o he_o himself_o but_o in_o the_o very_a docet_fw-la chapter_n go_v before_o quote_v four_o place_n out_o of_o calvin_n in_o which_o he_o say_v express_o that_o we_o receive_v in_o the_o sacrament_n the_o body_n and_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n verè_fw-la true_o so_o calvin_n say_v it_o four_o time_n and_o bellarmine_n quote_v the_o place_n and_o yet_o he_o say_v in_o the_o very_a next_o chapter_n that_o never_o any_o protestant_n say_v so_o to_o his_o read_n and_o for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n nothing_o be_v more_o plain_a than_o that_o it_o believe_v and_o teach_v the_o true_a and_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o etc._n eucharist_n unless_o a._n c._n can_v make_v a_o body_n no_o body_n and_o blood_n no_o blood_n as_o perhaps_o he_o can_v by_o transubstantiation_n as_o well_o as_o bread_n no_o bread_n and_o wine_n no_o wine_n and_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v protestant_n too_o so_o protestant_n of_o all_o sort_n maintain_v a_o true_a and_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o eucharist_n and_o then_o where_o be_v any_o know_v or_o damnable_a heresy_n here_o as_o for_o the_o learned_a of_o those_o zealous_a man_n that_o die_v in_o this_o cause_n in_o q._n mary_n day_n they_o deny_v not_o the_o real_a presence_n simple_o take_v but_o as_o their_o opposite_n force_v transubstantiation_n upon_o they_o as_o if_o that_o and_o the_o real_a presence_n have_v be_v all_o one_o whereas_o all_o the_o ancient_a christian_n ever_o believe_v the_o one_o and_o none_o but_o modern_a and_o superstitious_a christian_n believe_v the_o other_o if_o they_o do_v believe_v it_o for_o i_o for_o my_o part_n doubt_v they_o do_v not_o and_o as_o for_o the_o unlearned_a in_o those_o time_n and_o all_o time_n their_o zeal_n they_o hold_v the_o foundation_n may_v eat_v out_o their_o ignorances_n and_o leave_v they_o safe_a now_o that_o the_o learned_a protestant_n in_o queen_n mary_n day_n do_v not_o deny_v nay_o do_v maintain_v the_o real_a presence_n will_v manifest_o appear_v for_o when_o the_o commissioner_n obtrude_v to_o jo._n frith_n the_o presence_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o that_o without_o all_o figure_n or_o similitude_n jo._n frith_n acknowledge_v 943._o that_o the_o inward_a man_n do_v as_o very_o receive_v christ_n body_n as_o the_o outward_a man_n receive_v the_o sacrament_n with_o his_o mouth_n and_o he_o add_v ibid._n that_o neither_o side_n ought_v to_o make_v it_o a_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o leave_v it_o indifferent_a nay_o archbishop_n cranmer_n come_v more_o plain_o and_o more_o home_n to_o it_o than_o frith_n for_o if_o you_o understand_v say_v 1301._o he_o by_o this_o word_n real_o reipsa_fw-la that_o be_v in_o very_a deed_n and_o effectual_o so_o christ_n by_o the_o grace_n and_o efficacy_n of_o his_o passion_n be_v indeed_o and_o true_o present_a etc._n etc._n but_o if_o by_o this_o word_n really_n you_o understand_v c._n corporalitèr_fw-la corporal_o in_o his_o natural_a and_o organical_a body_n under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n it_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o holy_a word_n of_o god_n and_o so_o likewise_o bishop_n ridley_n nay_o bishop_n ridley_n add_v yet_o far_o and_o speak_v so_o full_o to_o this_o point_n as_o i_o think_v no_o man_n can_v add_v to_o his_o expression_n and_o it_o be_v well_o if_o some_o protestant_n except_o not_o against_o it_o both_o you_o and_o i_o faith_n 1598._o he_o agree_v in_o this_o that_o in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o very_a true_a and_o natural_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n even_o that_o which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n mary_n which_o ascend_v into_o heaven_n which_o sit_v on_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god_n the_o father_n which_o shall_v come_v from_o thence_o to_o judge_v the_o quick_a and_o the_o dead_a only_o we_o differ_v in_o modo_fw-la in_o the_o way_n and_o manner_n of_o be_v we_o confess_v all_o one_o thing_n to_o be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o dissent_v in_o the_o manner_n of_o be_v there_o i_o confess_v christ_n natural_a body_n to_o be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n by_o spirit_n and_o grace_n etc._n etc._n you_o make_v a_o grosser_n kind_n of_o be_v enclose_v a_o natural_a body_n under_o the_o shape_n and_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n so_o far_o and_o more_o bishop_n ridley_n and_o 1703._o archbishop_n cranmer_n confess_v that_o he_o be_v indeed_o of_o another_o opinion_n and_o incline_v to_o that_o of_o zuinglius_fw-la till_o bishop_n ridley_n convince_v his_o judgement_n &_o settle_v he_o in_o this_o point_n and_o for_o 32._o calvin_n he_o come_v no_o whit_n short_a of_o these_o against_o the_o calumny_n of_o the_o romanist_n on_o that_o behalf_n now_o after_o all_o this_o with_o what_o face_n can_v a._n c._n say_v as_o he_o do_v that_o protestant_n deny_v or_o doubt_v of_o the_o true_a and_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n i_o can_v well_o tell_v or_o be_o unwilling_a to_o utter_v five_o whereas_o it_o be_v add_v by_o a._n c._n that_o in_o this_o present_a case_n 5._o there_o be_v no_o peril_n of_o any_o damnable_a heresy_n schism_n or_o any_o other_o 66._o sin_n in_o resolve_v to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o be_v not_o so_o neither_o for_o he_o that_o live_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o such_o a_o resolution_n be_v presume_v to_o believe_v as_o that_o church_n believe_v and_o he_o that_o do_v so_o i_o will_v not_o say_v be_v as_o guilty_a but_o guilty_a 〈…〉_z be_v more_o or_o less_o of_o the_o schism_n which_o that_o church_n first_o cause_v by_o her_o corruption_n and_o now_o continue_v by_o they_o and_o her_o power_n together_o and_o of_o all_o her_o damnable_a opinion_n too_o in_o point_n of_o misbelief_n though_o perhaps_o a._n c._n will_v not_o have_v they_o call_v heresy_n unless_o they_o have_v be_v condemn_v in_o some_o general_n council_n and_o of_o all_o other_o sin_n also_o which_o the_o doctrine_n and_o misbelief_n of_o that_o church_n lead_v he_o into_o and_o mark_v it_o i_o pray_v for_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o live_v in_o a_o schismatical_a church_n and_o not_o communicate_v with_o it_o in_o the_o schism_n or_o in_o any_o false_a worship_n that_o attend_v it_o for_o so_o elias_n live_v among_o the_o ten_o tribe_n and_o be_v not_o schismatical_a 3_o reg._n 17._o 17._o and_o after_o he_o elizaeus_n 4_o reg._n 3._o but_o then_o neither_o 3._o of_o they_o either_o countenance_v the_o schism_n or_o worship_v the_o calf_n in_o dan_n or_o in_o bethel_n and_o so_o also_o beside_o these_o prophet_n do_v those_o thousand_o live_v in_o
will_v fain_o through_o master_n 3_o roger_n side_n wound_v the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o if_o she_o be_v unsettle_a in_o the_o article_n of_o christ_n descent_n into_o hell_n pag._n 21._o and_o he_o endeavour_v the_o same_o in_o this_o pag._n 46._o in_o the_o first_o he_o be_v very_o earnest_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o schism_n be_v make_v by_o the_o protestant_n 4_o pag._n 23._o and_o he_o be_v as_o earnest_a for_o it_o in_o this_o pag._n 55._o in_o the_o first_o he_o lay_v it_o for_o a_o ground_n that_o corruption_n of_o manner_n 5_o be_v no_o just_a cause_n of_o separation_n from_o faith_n or_o church_n pag._n 24._o and_o the_o same_o ground_n he_o lay_v in_o this_o pag._n 55._o in_o the_o first_o he_o will_v 6_o have_v it_o that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n give_v continual_a and_o infallible_a assistance_n to_o the_o church_n pag._n 24._o and_o just_o so_o will_v he_o have_v it_o in_o this_o pag._n 53._o in_o the_o first_o he_o make_v much_o ado_n about_o the_o err_v of_o 7_o the_o greek_a church_n pag._n 28._o and_o as_o much_o make_v he_o in_o this_o pag._n 8_o 44._o in_o the_o first_o he_o make_v a_o great_a noise_n about_o the_o place_n in_o st._n augustine_n ferendus_fw-la est_fw-la disputator_fw-la errans_fw-la etc._n etc._n pag._n 18._o and_o 24._o and_o so_o do_v he_o here_o also_o pag._n 45._o in_o the_o first_o he_o will_v make_v his_o proselyte_n believe_v that_o he_o and_o his_o cause_n have_v mighty_a advantage_n 9_o by_o that_o sentence_n of_o s._n bernard_n it_o be_v intolerable_a pride_n and_o that_o of_o s._n augustine_n it_o be_v insolent_a madness_n to_o oppose_v the_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n pag._n 25._o and_o twice_o 10_o he_o be_v at_o the_o same_o art_n in_o this_o pag._n 56._o and_o 73._o in_o the_o first_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o 141._o calvin_n confess_v that_o in_o the_o reformation_n there_o be_v a_o departure_n from_o the_o whole_a world_n pag._n 25._o and_o though_o i_o conceive_v calvine_n speak_v this_o but_o of_o the_o roman_a world_n and_o of_o no_o voluntary_a but_o a_o force_a departure_n and_o write_v this_o to_o melancthon_n to_o work_v unity_n among_o the_o reformer_n not_o any_o way_n to_o blast_v the_o reformation_n yet_o we_o must_v hear_v of_o it_o again_o in_o this_o pag._n 56._o but_o over_o and_o above_o the_o rest_n one_o place_n with_o his_o own_o 11_o gloss_n upon_o it_o please_v he_o extreme_o it_o be_v out_o of_o s._n athanasius_n his_o creed_n that_o whosoever_o do_v not_o hold_v it_o entire_a that_o be_v say_v he_o in_o all_o point_n and_o inviolate_a that_o be_v say_v he_o in_o the_o true_a unchanged_a and_o uncorrupted_a sense_n propose_v unto_o we_o by_o the_o pastor_n of_o his_o catholic_a church_n without_o doubt_n he_o shall_v perish_v everlasting_o this_o he_o have_v almost_o verbatim_o in_o the_o first_o page_z 20._o and_o in_o the_o epistle_n of_o the_o publisher_n of_o that_o relation_n to_o the_o reader_n under_o the_o name_n of_o w._n i._n and_o then_o agian_n the_o very_a same_o in_o this_o if_o not_o with_o some_o more_o disadvantage_n to_o himself_o page_n 70._o and_o perhaps_o have_v i_o leisure_n to_o search_v after_o they_o more_o point_n than_o these_o now_o the_o reason_n which_o move_v i_o to_o set_v down_o these_o particular_n thus_o distinct_o be_v two_o the_o one_o that_o whereas_o the_o c._n jesuit_n affirm_v that_o in_o a_o second_o conference_n all_o the_o speech_n be_v about_o particular_a matter_n and_o little_a or_o nothing_o about_o the_o main_a and_o great_a general_a point_n of_o a_o continual_a infallible_a visible_a church_n in_o which_o that_o lady_n require_v satisfaction_n and_o that_o therefore_o this_o three_o conference_n be_v hold_v it_o may_v hereby_o appear_v that_o the_o most_o material_a both_o point_n and_o proof_n be_v upon_o the_o matter_n the_o very_a same_o in_o all_o the_o three_o conference_n though_o little_o be_v relate_v of_o the_o second_o conference_n by_o a._n c._n as_o 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that_o be_v the_o roman_n b._n §_o 38_o num._n 1_o so_o it_o seem_v i_o be_v confident_a for_o the_o faith_n profess_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n else_o i_o will_v not_o have_v take_v the_o salvation_n of_o another_o upon_o my_o soul._n and_o sure_o i_o have_v reason_n of_o this_o my_o confidence_n for_o to_o believe_v the_o scripture_n and_o the_o creed_n to_o believe_v these_o in_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o ancient_a primitive_a church_n to_o receive_v the_o four_o great_a general_n counsel_n so_o much_o magnify_v by_o antiquity_n to_o believe_v all_o point_n of_o doctrine_n general_o receive_v as_o fundamental_a in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v a_o faith_n in_o which_o to_o live_v and_o die_v can_v but_o give_v salvation_n and_o therefore_o i_o go_v upon_o a_o sure_a ground_n in_o the_o adventure_n of_o my_o soul_n upon_o that_o faith_n beside_o in_o all_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n that_o be_v controvert_v between_o we_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v any_o one_o point_n 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ever_o be_v prove_v we_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v do_v num._n 2_o but_o here_o a._n c._n bestir_v himself_o find_v that_o he_o be_v come_v upon_o the_o point_n which_o be_v indeed_o most_o considerable_a and_o first_o he_o 68_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v protestant_n not_o sufficient_a to_o beget_v a_o confidence_n in_o this_o case_n to_o say_v we_o believe_v the_o scripture_n and_o the_o creed_n in_o the_o same_o sense_n which_o the_o ancient_a primitive_a church_n believe_v they_o etc._n etc._n most_o true_a if_o we_o only_o say_v and_o do_v not_o believe_v and_o let_v they_o which_o believe_v not_o while_o they_o say_v they_o do_v look_v to_o it_o on_o all_o side_n for_o on_o all_o side_n i_o doubt_v not_o but_o such_o there_o be_v but_o if_o we_o do_v say_v it_o