it_o and_o see_v such_o superstitious_a opinion_n of_o it_o increase_v and_o such_o press_v the_o same_o to_o the_o oppression_n of_o the_o church_n so_o many_o fall_n so_o many_o weak_a one_o stagger_v and_o look_v at_o the_o example_n of_o their_o guide_n if_o now_o when_o all_o be_v call_v of_o god_n to_o rise_v up_o against_o it_o with_o zeal_n and_o detestation_n a_o minister_n godly_a and_o able_a will_v use_v any_o part_n of_o it_o with_o offence_n etc._n etc._n we_o suppose_v we_o have_v cause_n to_o fear_v and_o leave_v it_o doubtful_a whether_o the_o godly_a may_v lawful_o join_v with_o they_o therein_o and_o therefore_o we_o desire_v you_o to_o call_v back_o your_o sharp_a censure_n of_o such_o withdraw_a as_o you_o conclude_v this_o passage_n withal_o or_o else_o we_o shall_v appeal_v to_o the_o reverend_a assembly_n of_o minister_n and_o their_o late_a and_o godly_a directory_n herein_o reply_n five_o if_o these_o and_o such_o like_a scruple_n make_v it_o unlawful_a to_o join_v in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o worship_n we_o must_v hold_v communion_n with_o no_o society_n under_o heaven_n for_o may_v not_o the_o brethren_n which_o hold_v all_o stint_a liturgy_n and_o set_a form_n unlawful_a say_v with_o like_a reason_n it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o join_v with_o other_o inconceive_v prayer_n if_o they_o give_v too_o little_a honour_n to_o it_o as_o conceive_v the_o other_o lawful_a or_o sinful_o limit_v themselves_o to_o one_o stint_a form_n though_o conceive_v at_o first_o by_o themselves_o etc._n etc._n answ_n we_o must_v entreat_v the_o christian_a reader_n still_o to_o carry_v in_o mind_n with_o what_o tenderness_n we_o offer_v ourselves_o in_o this_o point_n and_o upon_o what_o consideration_n we_o dare_v not_o whole_o excuse_v and_o clear_v such_o join_n as_o the_o case_n now_o stand_v and_o therefore_o we_o think_v these_o reason_v will_v be_v far_o differ_v from_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n and_o we_o will_v not_o be_v take_v so_o as_o to_o justify_v such_o rigid_a principle_n as_o these_o be_v we_o hearty_o join_v in_o the_o conclusion_n that_o such_o advance_n of_o small_a difference_n will_v indeed_o bring_v all_o to_o confusion_n and_o we_o be_v far_o we_o hope_v from_o any_o such_o meaning_n if_o our_o answer_n in_o this_o or_o any_o other_o passage_n give_v just_a advantage_n to_o such_o separation_n we_o be_v hearty_o sorry_a for_o it_o but_o we_o hope_v what_o have_v be_v say_v will_v satisfy_v the_o ingenuous_a and_o christian_a reader_n reply_n six_o we_o have_v credible_o hear_v that_o you_o hold_v fellowship_n with_o profess_a rigid_a separatist_n without_o acknowledge_v of_o their_o error_n and_o receive_v they_o as_o member_n or_o communicate_v with_o they_o in_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n though_o you_o profess_v you_o approve_v not_o their_o opinion_n or_o practice_n and_o if_o in_o godly_a wisdom_n you_o can_v see_v ground_n to_o join_v with_o they_o we_o marvel_n you_o shall_v be_v so_o timorous_a in_o this_o particular_a answ_n although_o in_o many_o of_o our_o church_n we_o know_v not_o that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o profess_a rigid_a separatist_n that_o reject_v the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o no_o church_n and_o their_o minister_n as_o no_o true_a minister_n yet_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o some_o such_o there_o may_v be_v in_o some_o of_o the_o church_n whence_o we_o grant_v it_o may_v follow_v that_o we_o can_v have_v communion_n in_o god_n worship_n with_o man_n of_o several_a judgement_n yet_o we_o may_v be_v just_o timorous_a of_o join_v or_o approve_v other_o to_o join_v in_o any_o part_n of_o a_o corrupt_a worship_n in_o case_n of_o scandal_n etc._n etc._n we_o think_v these_o thing_n have_v not_o the_o same_o face_n or_o show_v of_o reason_n in_o they_o and_o therefore_o so_o long_o as_o they_o live_v peaceable_o with_o we_o we_o can_v well_o have_v fellowship_n with_o they_o as_o we_o have_v also_o with_o other_o that_o think_v it_o may_v be_v better_a of_o the_o church_n and_o way_n of_o it_o than_o there_o be_v cause_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o corruption_n thereof_o so_o we_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o approve_v their_o opinion_n nor_o conform_v to_o any_o of_o their_o corrupt_a practice_n reply_n seven_o if_o to_o administer_v in_o a_o stint_a form_n be_v scandalous_a to_o such_o as_o separate_v it_o be_v scandal_n take_v not_o give_v and_o we_o shall_v do_v it_o the_o rather_o that_o they_o be_v not_o confirm_v in_o their_o error_n the_o truth_n be_v not_o prejudice_v needless_a scruple_n occasion_v etc._n etc._n answ_n 1_o this_o be_v from_o the_o question_n for_o we_o dispute_v of_o your_o liturgy_n not_o of_o any_o liturgy_n or_o stint_v form_n 2_o take_v in_o the_o case_n in_o all_o its_o circumstance_n as_o before_o declare_v and_o it_o will_v appear_v scandal_n may_v be_v give_v at_o least_o we_o put_v the_o case_n of_o a_o scandal_n real_o give_v 3_o how_o far_o a_o man_n in_o some_o case_n of_o clear_a and_o undoubted_a truth_n may_v do_v a_o thing_n the_o rather_o for_o such_o reason_n though_o other_o take_v offence_n we_o will_v not_o dispute_v but_o if_o for_o meat_n or_o by_o use_n of_o our_o liberty_n by_o eat_v of_o such_o meat_n as_o another_o account_n unclean_a we_o may_v destroy_v the_o work_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o must_v not_o eat_v flesh_n nor_o drink_v wine_n nor_o any_o thing_n whereby_o a_o brother_n stumble_v etc._n etc._n rom._n 14_o 14_o 15_o 20_o 21._o how_o dangerous_a then_o to_o use_v such_o corrupt_a form_n of_o worship_n or_o any_o part_n thereof_o so_o much_o the_o rather_o when_o a_o weak_a brother_n stumble_v at_o they_o we_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o christian_a reader_n to_o judge_n we_o doubt_v it_o will_v not_o agree_v with_o the_o rule_n of_o charity_n prescribe_v rom._n 14._o 1_o cor._n 8._o chap._n iii_o 3_o position_n that_o the_o child_n of_o godly_a and_o approve_a christian_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v until_o their_o parent_n be_v set_v member_n of_o some_o particular_a congregation_n 4_o that_o the_o parent_n themselves_o though_o of_o approve_a piety_n be_v not_o to_o be_v receive_v to_o the_o lords-supper_n until_o they_o be_v admit_v as_o set_v member_n reply_n what_o be_v here_o premise_a to_o prevent_v mistake_n do_v seem_v more_o to_o raise_v then_o to_o abate_v scruple_n you_o refuse_v not_o all_o communion_n with_o all_o that_o be_v not_o church-member_n and_o so_o much_o they_o profess_v who_o former_o have_v go_v for_o and_o profess_v themselves_o separatist_n from_o our_o assembly_n you_o do_v not_o appropriate_v these_o privilege_n of_o the_o seal_v only_o to_o member_n of_o your_o own_o church_n etc._n etc._n if_o you_o mean_v only_o that_o the_o sacrament_n administer_v in_o other_o church_n be_v true_a for_o substance_n it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o you_o will_v confess_v of_o rome_n if_o you_o deny_v not_o fellowship_n with_o they_o in_o the_o seal_n and_o to_o receive_v they_o to_o the_o sacrament_n your_o judgement_n be_v against_o your_o practice_n or_o you_o exclude_v the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o the_o number_n of_o true_a church_n answ_n we_o see_v not_o how_o such_o scruple_n can_v be_v raise_v without_o great_a mistake_n of_o our_o meaning_n our_o expression_n be_v so_o plain_a and_o distinct_a for_o 1_o what_o if_o some_o separatist_n admit_v private_a communion_n with_o such_o yet_o they_o reject_v your_o church_n and_o ministry_n as_o null_n which_o we_o do_v not_o and_o many_o of_o they_o have_v refuse_v also_o such_o private_a communion_n 2_o we_o marvel_n how_o you_o can_v fall_v into_o such_o a_o mistake_n as_o to_o suppose_v we_o only_o allow_v the_o truth_n of_o sacrament_n for_o substance_n in_o other_o church_n when_o we_o speak_v in_o the_o same_o sentence_n of_o receive_v satisfaction_n by_o letter_n or_o otherwise_o concern_v those_o we_o admit_v to_o the_o seal_n which_o plain_o show_v we_o speak_v of_o communion_n with_o such_o church_n 3_o concern_v fellowship_n with_o those_o church_n we_o may_v admit_v member_n of_o they_o to_o the_o seal_n with_o we_o when_o we_o can_v always_o join_v with_o they_o in_o their_o administration_n by_o reason_n of_o some_o sinful_a corruption_n wherein_o we_o must_v have_v actual_a fellowship_n with_o they_o as_o yourselves_o will_v not_o join_v in_o case_n you_o must_v kneel_v at_o the_o lords-supper_n 4_o concern_v the_o dilemma_n we_o answer_v 1_o our_o practice_n be_v not_o cross_v to_o this_o profession_n for_o such_o as_o come_v recommend_v from_o foreign_a church_n and_o give_v such_o satisfaction_n as_o be_v meet_v we_o do_v receive_v and_o such_o as_o have_v whole_o cast_v off_o all_o relation_n to_o english_a church_n and_o live_v among_o we_o we_o have_v look_v at_o as_o scatter_a stone_n till_o they_o join_v some_o where_o in_o a_o church_n and_o themselves_o general_o
of_o god_n and_o where_o there_o be_v a_o covenant_n there_o be_v the_o people_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o assertion_n seem_v to_o we_o very_o strange_a to_o fall_v from_o that_o reverend_a and_o learned_a author_n be_v a_o foundation_n of_o many_o inconvenience_n and_o absuâ—…dities_n and_o tend_v to_o overthrow_v the_o order_n of_o christ_n in_o his_o visible_a church_n for_o first_o if_o this_o be_v so_o that_o every_o society_n in_o covenant_n with_o god_n be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n than_o man_n may_v set_v up_o as_o many_o form_n of_o visible_a church_n as_o they_o please_v if_o the_o people_n be_v in_o covenant_n with_o god_n visible_o at_o least_o the_o archdeacon_n with_o his_o commissary_n priest_n churchwarden_n etc._n etc._n be_v in_o covenant_n with_o god_n be_v a_o true_a church_n so_o the_o diocesan_n bishop_n in_o his_o cathedral_n with_o his_o clergy_n or_o any_o such_o assembly_n be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n or_o what_o other_o form-soev_a man_n will_v devise_v may_v go_v for_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o to_o they_o belong_v the_o seal_n and_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v discipline_n and_o all_o ordinance_n of_o god_n if_o they_o be_v the_o true_a church_n second_o upon_o this_o ground_n every_o company_n of_o godly_a christian_o in_o covenant_n with_o god_n meet_v in_o fast_v prayer_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n and_o to_o they_o as_o such_o the_o sealâ—…_n belong_v and_o send_v for_o a_o true_a minister_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n they_o may_v have_v baptism_n and_o the_o lords-supper_n administer_v and_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n discipline_n also_o yea_o if_o but_o two_o or_o three_o as_o you_o say_v be_v in_o covenant_n with_o god_n meet_v together_o in_o their_o travail_n at_o a_o inn_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n especial_o every_o christian_a family_n iâ—…_n the_o church_n for_o they_o profess_v the_o entire_a faith_n join_v daily_o in_o prayer_n and_o thanksgiving_n receive_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n to_o dwell_v among_o they_o be_v in_o some_o measure_n obedient_a unto_o the_o commandâ—…_n of_o god_n and_o in_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o therefore_o be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n why_o not_o call_v for_o a_o minister_n and_o have_v seal_n ordinary_o dispense_v to_o they_o three_o upon_o this_o ground_n a_o company_n of_o christian_a woman_n in_o covenant_n with_o god_n be_v a_o church_n to_o who_o the_o seal_n â—…_n belong_v and_o who_o see_v not_o how_o all_o orderly_a dispensation_n of_o god_n ordinance_n and_o the_o whole_a order_n of_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o gospel_n will_v be_v overturn_v by_o this_o assertion_n we_o very_o believe_v this_o author_n be_v far_o from_o admit_v these_o thing_n but_o the_o position_n itself_o will_v unavoidable_o enforce_v the_o same_o neither_o can_v we_o impute_v this_o assertion_n to_o any_o inconsiderateness_n through_o heat_n of_o disputation_n for_o if_o any_o shall_v maintain_v the_o personal_a covenant_n of_o people_n with_o god_n to_o be_v sufficient_a to_o constitute_v visible_a church_n and_o not_o admit_v a_o necessity_n of_o a_o more_o public_a or_o general_a covenant_n explicit_a or_o implicit_a whereby_o a_o company_n of_o christianâ—…_n be_v make_v one_o people_n join_v in_o one_o congregation_n to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o holy_a ordinance_n and_o walk_v together_o in_o his_o wayâ—…_n they_o must_v of_o necessity_n acknowledge_v every_o society_n in_o covenant_n with_o god_n to_o be_v a_o church_n as_o here_o be_v say_v and_o therefore_o admit_v all_o form_n of_o church_n and_o all_o family_n etc._n etc._n to_o be_v church_n and_o so_o bring_v in_o the_o confution_n object_v which_o we_o desire_v may_v well_o be_v consider_v all_o your_o argument_n stand_v upon_o that_o ground_n of_o personal_a covenant_n with_o god_n which_o be_v too_o weak_a to_o bear_v up_o that_o conclusion_n to_o make_v all_o such_o visible_a church_n to_o who_o the_o seal_v belong_v as_o the_o absurd_a consequence_n thereof_o show_v these_o reason_n and_o the_o scripture_n in_o the_o margin_n some_o of_o they_o will_v prove_v they_o fit_a matter_n for_o visible_a church_n and_o that_o they_o have_v a_o remote_a right_n unto_o the_o seal_n of_o that_o covenant_n which_o we_o grant_v but_o they_o will_v not_o prove_v every_o society_n of_o such_o to_o be_v true_a church_n have_v immediate_a right_n to_o have_v the_o seal_v dispense_v unto_o they_o reply_n five_o if_o it_o be_v graâ—…ted_v that_o the_o seal_n be_v the_o prerogative_n of_o particular_a visible_a church_n know_v and_o approve_a christian_n among_o we_o be_v member_n of_o such_o church_n and_o so_o to_o be_v esteem_v among_o you_o etc._n etc._n and_o every_o visible_a believer_n profess_v the_o pure_a entire_a faith_n admit_v to_o the_o right_n and_o lawful_a participation_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v a_o visible_a member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n if_o he_o have_v neither_o renounce_v the_o society_n nor_o deserve_v just_o to_o be_v cast_v out_o by_o excommunication_n or_o church_n censure_n etc._n etc._n and_o if_o know_v and_o approve_a christian_n member_n of_o our_o church_n come_v to_o new-england_n shall_v desire_v to_o have_v their_o child_n baptize_v or_o themselves_o admit_v to_o the_o lords-supper_n before_o they_o be_v set_v member_n among_o you_o we_o desire_v to_o know_v upon_o what_o ground_n from_o god_n you_o can_v deny_v they_o if_o you_o acknowledge_v our_o church_n ministry_n and_o sacrament_n to_o be_v true_a as_o you_o profess_v and_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v know_v and_o approve_v orderly_o recommend_v unto_o you_o answ_n we_o grant_v all_o this_o here_o express_v for_o the_o substance_n however_o some_o reason_n speak_v unto_o before_o intermix_v we_o pass_v over_o and_o to_o your_o question_n we_o frame_v a_o ready_a answer_n from_o your_o own_o word_n for_o first_o you_o grant_v that_o if_o such_o member_n have_v renounce_v that_o society_n wherein_o they_o do_v partake_v of_o the_o seal_n they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v repute_v member_n of_o it_o and_o this_o be_v general_o the_o case_n of_o all_o approve_a christian_n among_o we_o who_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o renounce_v the_o church_n that_o bear_v they_o and_o give_v they_o suck_v as_o no_o true_a church_n yet_o see_v they_o be_v grow_v so_o corrupt_a many_o way_n as_o they_o can_v neither_o enjoy_v some_o needful_a ordinance_n nor_o partake_v in_o those_o they_o have_v without_o sin_n they_o have_v therefore_o renounce_v and_o forsake_v all_o further_a communion_n with_o they_o and_o membership_n in_o they_o and_o so_o by_o your_o own_o grant_n neither_o themselves_o nor_o the_o church_n here_o can_v take_v they_o as_o member_n of_o your_o church_n to_o receive_v they_o under_o that_o respect_n second_o if_o any_o yet_o have_v not_o so_o far_o renounce_v those_o church_n they_o belong_v unto_o yet_o they_o be_v not_o orderly_o recommend_v unto_o we_o which_o also_o you_o grant_v aught_o to_o be_v and_o indeed_o otherwise_o we_o may_v oft_o receive_v person_n just_o excommunicate_a or_o such_o as_o be_v no_o member_n of_o church_n any_o where_o or_o otherwise_o under_o great_a offence_n as_o frequent_a example_n among_o ourselves_o do_v sheâ—…e_v though_o the_o church_n may_v think_v well_o of_o such_o as_o offer_v themselves_o what_o else_o follow_v in_o this_o paragraph_n be_v the_o same_o in_o substance_n and_o much_o of_o it_o in_o word_n also_o that_o we_o have_v answer_v before_o and_o therefore_o we_o pass_v it_o over_o and_o that_o of_o the_o jewish_a church_n we_o shall_v speak_v to_o after_o as_o for_o that_o you_o desire_v leave_v to_o set_v down_o and_o we_o to_o examine_v what_o may_v be_v object_v against_o that_o we_o affirm_v that_o the_o distinct_a church_n name_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v congregationall_a society_n we_o shall_v consider_v as_o follow_v reply_v the_o number_n of_o believer_n be_v so_o great_a in_o some_o city_n that_o they_o can_v not_o convenient_o meet_v in_o one_o place_n as_o one_o assembly_n to_o worship_n god_n according_a to_o his_o will_n and_o for_o their_o edify_n as_o in_o samaria_n jerusalem_n antioch_n ephesus_n answ_n although_o we_o expect_v not_o objection_n in_o this_o case_n against_o the_o currant_n tenent_n of_o our_o godly_a reformer_n baine_n parker_n etc._n etc._n with_o who_o we_o join_v and_o we_o may_v refer_v you_o to_o they_o for_o answer_v to_o this_o beat_a objection_n of_o the_o prelate_n yet_o we_o be_v not_o unwilling_a to_o examine_v what_o be_v say_v in_o this_o digression_n the_o argument_n stand_v thus_o if_o the_o number_n of_o believer_n be_v so_o great_a in_o some_o city_n as_o can_v not_o meet_v in_o one_o assembly_n to_o edification_n then_o there_o be_v some_o other_o form_n of_o a_o church_n beside_o congregationall_a but_o so_o it_o be_v in_o samaria_n etc._n etc._n answ_n
attain_v with_o toleration_n of_o what_o can_v be_v the_o reformation_n thereof_o with_o the_o liberty_n of_o god_n true_a worship_n therein_o if_o indeed_o that_o can_v be_v obtain_v but_o man_n contradict_v and_o blaspheme_v they_o as_o paul_n separate_v the_o disciple_n so_o we_o see_v no_o other_o remedy_n the_o faithful_a have_v in_o such_o a_o case_n the_o second_o stumble_v block_n may_v be_v our_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n about_o church-government_n when_o we_o give_v discipline_n as_o well_o as_o other_o ordinance_n to_o particular_a church_n not_o subject_v they_o to_o any_o government_n out_o of_o themselves_o but_o only_o to_o take_v the_o brotherly_a counsel_n and_o help_v one_o of_o another_o but_o how_o this_o shall_v hinder_v a_o general_a reformation_n we_o see_v not_o for_o if_o every_o church_n so_o reform_v themselves_o as_o be_v aforesaid_a and_o have_v such_o officer_n over_o they_o as_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n require_v 1_o tim._n 3._o tit._n 2._o we_o need_v not_o fear_v to_o betrust_v the_o church_n have_v such_o officer_n with_o that_o power_n which_o we_o conceive_v christ_n have_v give_v to_o the_o same_o other_o church_n watch_v over_o they_o counsel_v and_o admonish_v they_o in_o the_o lord_n but_o if_o there_o be_v not_o such_o a_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n nor_o such_o guide_v set_v over_o they_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n in_o a_o presbytery_n of_o such_o pastor_n as_o may_v not_o be_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n may_v as_o much_o abuse_v they_o as_o a_o particular_a church_n may_v do_v and_o it_o may_v be_v to_o the_o hurt_n of_o many_o who_o will_v use_v they_o better_o in_o their_o own_o congregation_n than_o they_o can_v in_o a_o classis_fw-la be_v over-voted_n there_o and_o we_o can_v conceive_v but_o both_o the_o care_n of_o reform_v the_o matter_n of_o a_o church_n and_o the_o recall_v of_o the_o power_n of_o government_n to_o the_o church_n tend_v much_o to_o further_o this_o work_n of_o reformation_n no_o way_n to_o hinder_v the_o same_o and_o if_o we_o may_v obtain_v that_o of_o our_o dear_a brethren_n which_o we_o humble_o crave_v viz._n that_o our_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n may_v be_v take_v candid_o according_a to_o our_o plain_a meaning_n and_o declaration_n and_o not_o represent_v unto_o the_o world_n under_o such_o shape_n and_o form_n as_o make_v it_o seem_v rigid_a all_o one_o with_o the_o most_o rigid_a separatist_n donatist_n arminian_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n we_o shall_v hope_v that_o we_o shall_v go_v for_o lover_n and_o friend_n to_o a_o godly_a and_o general_a reformation_n not_o for_o disturber_n of_o the_o same_o but_o the_o contrary_a deal_n we_o meet_v with_o too_o too_o oft_o through_o the_o mistake_v of_o brethren_n this_o learned_a author_n mr._n ball_n though_o in_o the_o epistle_n he_o desire_v we_o to_o rest_v assure_v that_o although_o he_o have_v conceive_v such_o thought_n of_o we_o as_o lean_v to_o separation_n yet_o he_o will_v glad_o receive_v every_o syllable_n from_o we_o that_o shall_v dislodge_v such_o thought_n yet_o against_o our_o plain_a profession_n sometime_o he_o will_v needs_o fasten_v the_o opinion_n of_o separation_n upon_o we_o and_o very_o frequent_o set_v mr._n robinson_n in_o a_o parallel_n with_o our_o opinion_n as_o if_o we_o general_o go_v that_o way_n in_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v well_o know_v to_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o many_o of_o our_o godly_a and_o best_a reformer_n the_o learned_a may_v plain_o see_v how_o easy_a it_o have_v be_v for_o we_o and_o upon_o better_a ground_n to_o have_v fill_v our_o margin_n with_o quotation_n out_o of_o papist_n and_o prelate_n as_o parallel_v with_o many_o passage_n of_o this_o reply_n but_o we_o have_v purposely_o abstain_v from_o so_o do_v that_o we_o may_v not_o cast_v any_o blur_v or_o provoke_v the_o spirit_n of_o brethren_n and_o see_v we_o be_v enforce_v to_o wipe_v off_o such_o aspersion_n we_o humble_o desire_v our_o belove_a brethren_n who_o learned_a labour_n we_o honour_v to_o bear_v with_o we_o if_o we_o light_o touch_v this_o sore_a for_o we_o confess_v it_o bring_v blush_v into_o our_o face_n and_o sadness_n to_o our_o heart_n to_o read_v so_o often_o such_o harsh_a imputation_n cast_v upon_o we_o which_o we_o can_v conceive_v but_o fall_v from_o such_o pen_n they_o breed_v a_o strange_a loathe_n of_o we_o in_o the_o stomach_n of_o many_o that_o read_v book_n without_o serious_a examination_n thereof_o first_o how_o oft_o do_v we_o meet_v with_o that_o imputation_n that_o we_o make_v none_o member_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n but_o such_o as_o be_v real_o saint_n and_o believer_n contrary_a to_o our_o frequent_a profession_n that_o visible_a saint_n that_o be_v such_o in_o judgement_n of_o charity_n be_v fit_a matter_n of_o the_o church_n second_o that_o we_o make_v a_o vocal_a church_n oath_n or_o covenant_n the_o essential_a form_n of_o a_o church_n when_o as_o we_o frequent_o acknowledge_v that_o this_o covenant_n which_o constitute_v a_o church_n be_v either_o implicit_a or_o explicit_a and_o that_o congregation_n in_o england_n be_v true_o church_n have_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n and_o it_o be_v far_o from_o our_o practice_n to_o use_v any_o oath_n in_o our_o covenant_n and_o strange_a to_o we_o to_o read_v so_o many_o page_n against_o our_o church_n oath_n and_o swear_v to_o a_o covenant_n to_o make_v our_o course_n horrid_a and_o too_o too_o rigorous_a three_o that_o we_o set_v up_o a_o popular_a government_n make_v the_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n no_o more_o but_o moderator_n etc._n etc._n and_o that_o minister_n recâ—…ive_v their_o power_n from_o the_o people_n be_v their_o servant_n and_o administer_v in_o their_o name_n as_o mr._n ball_n and_o other_o object_n when_o we_o oft_o profess_v the_o contrary_a that_o all_o authoâ—…ity_n proper_o so_o call_v be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o elder_n and_o the_o liberty_n of_o the_o people_n be_v to_o be_v carry_v in_o a_o way_n of_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o they_o in_o the_o lord_n neither_o do_v it_o follow_v from_o any_o doctrine_n of_o we_o no_o more_o then_o from_o the_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n by_o the_o presbytery_n that_o they_o be_v their_o servant_n etc._n etc._n four_o that_o if_o a_o congregation_n reject_v a_o pastor_n for_o no_o fault_n they_o take_v both_o nomen_fw-la &_o esse_fw-la the_o name_n and_o nature_n of_o a_o pastor_n from_o he_o for_o this_o the_o reader_n be_v refer_v to_o our_o answer_n of_o the_o twenty_o five_o question_n of_o the_o thirty_o two_o question_n send_v unto_o we_o where_o nothing_o at_o all_o be_v say_v but_o reference_n be_v make_v to_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o nine_o question_n among_o which_o the_o seven_o be_v of_o this_o very_a point_n our_o answer_n be_v quite_o contrary_a to_o what_o be_v impute_v to_o we_o our_o word_n be_v these_o concern_v the_o minister_n himself_o thus_o depose_v etc._n etc._n we_o conceive_v though_o he_o be_v by_o they_o deprive_v of_o the_o execution_n of_o his_o ministry_n among_o they_o yet_o until_o he_o accept_v of_o a_o call_n to_o another_o people_n he_o still_o remain_v a_o minister_n of_o christ_n in_o who_o account_n he_o have_v true_a right_n of_o administration_n among_o the_o people_n now_o if_o he_o remain_v a_o minister_n of_o christ_n and_o have_v true_a right_a to_o administer_v let_v any_o judge_n whether_o we_o take_v away_o nomen_fw-la or_o esse_fw-la or_o that_o we_o make_v church_n censure_n work_v ex_fw-la opere_fw-la operato_fw-la cleave_v errante_fw-la as_o be_v also_o impute_v to_o we_o many_o such_o mistake_v we_o find_v but_o let_v these_o suffice_v to_o inform_v the_o reader_n how_o wary_a he_o have_v need_n be_v in_o receive_v such_o report_n against_o brethren_n and_o this_o charity_n we_o have_v cause_v the_o more_o earnest_o to_o crave_v of_o all_o that_o they_o will_v reserve_v one_o ear_n to_o hear_v what_o their_o poor_a outcast_a brethren_n can_v say_v for_o themselves_o because_o we_o be_v place_v at_o such_o a_o distance_n and_o disadvantage_n that_o ofttimes_o it_o be_v not_o possible_a for_o we_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o such_o objection_n and_o return_v a_o answer_n under_o a_o year_n or_o almost_o two_o year_n whereby_o satan_n have_v a_o marvelous_a advantage_n to_o work_v strange_a thought_n and_o distasteful_a affection_n towards_o we_o and_o fasten_v they_o so_o deep_o that_o hardly_o they_o will_v be_v take_v off_o again_o but_o thus_o it_o fall_v out_o too_o too_o frequent_o that_o when_o brethren_n otherwise_o dear_a to_o each_o other_o differ_v in_o their_o judgement_n and_o break_v out_o to_o open_a contention_n about_o the_o same_o they_o be_v very_o apt_a to_o make_v the_o opinion_n of_o the_o contrary_a party_n as_o unpleasing_a and_o absurd_a to_o the_o judgement_n of_o other_o as_o may_v be_v whence_o
the_o church_n in_o neglect_v they_o to_o go_v immediate_o to_o the_o classis_fw-la and_o yet_o some_o of_o our_o brethren_n at_o the_o request_n of_o tender_a conscience_n may_v declare_v their_o judgement_n when_o no_o rule_n call_v they_o to_o write_v to_o their_o pastor_n which_o perhaps_o be_v bitter_a persecutor_n or_o if_o better_o yet_o such_o as_o they_o have_v no_o knowledge_n of_o and_o if_o any_o by_o such_o write_n do_v abstain_v from_o the_o sacrament_n for_o such_o corruption_n as_o their_o conscience_n will_v be_v defile_v with_o no_o hindrance_n from_o we_o be_v in_o the_o way_n but_o that_o you_o may_v call_v they_o to_o account_v before_o the_o church_n and_o convince_v and_o censure_v they_o if_o there_o be_v just_a cause_n which_o be_v the_o objection_n against_o mr._n p._n in_o fly_v present_o to_o the_o classis_fw-la chap._n iii_o 2_o position_n that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o join_v in_o prayer_n or_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n where_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n be_v use_v or_o as_o we_o conceive_v your_o meaning_n to_o be_v in_o this_o as_o in_o the_o former_a etc._n etc._n viz._n where_o and_o when_o that_o stint_a liturgy_n be_v use_v reply_n if_o we_o mistake_v not_o your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n both_o you_o have_v bear_v witness_n against_o both_o that_o you_o call_v the_o rigid_a separation_n and_o this_o more_o moderate_a also_o and_o we_o humble_o wish_v that_o the_o moderate_a do_v not_o degenerate_a into_o the_o rigid_a ere_o long_o it_o be_v very_o strange_a if_o they_o take_v not_o great_a encouragement_n upon_o your_o ground_n answ_n if_o you_o will_v needs_o account_v not_o join_v in_o that_o stint_v impose_v liturgy_n to_o be_v a_o moderate_a separation_n we_o must_v confess_v we_o have_v witness_v against_o such_o separation_n yea_o not_o only_o conform_v to_o that_o corrupt_a worship_n but_o also_o to_o divers_a of_o the_o ceremony_n thereof_o some_o of_o we_o with_o shame_n before_o the_o lord_n may_v confess_v it_o but_o we_o desire_v that_o may_v be_v no_o prejudice_n to_o the_o truth_n since_o discover_v to_o we_o but_o we_o have_v ever_o conceive_v that_o the_o separation_n witness_v against_o both_o by_o yourselves_o and_o we_o have_v be_v such_o as_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o no_o true_a church_n the_o ministry_n as_o no_o true_a ministry_n their_o separation_n from_o corruption_n in_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n their_o endeavour_n to_o enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n in_o purity_n if_o we_o be_v not_o mistake_v your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n with_o we_o have_v always_o approve_v and_o the_o question_n now_o in_o hand_n be_v not_o about_o a_o new_a kind_n of_o separation_n more_o moderate_a from_o the_o church_n and_o ministry_n of_o england_n but_o whether_o the_o liturgy_n of_o england_n be_v not_o indeed_o one_o of_o those_o corruption_n in_o worship_n which_o you_o and_o we_o have_v need_n reject_v as_o well_o as_o the_o ceremony_n and_o no_o long_o conform_v to_o the_o same_o and_o we_o hearty_o wish_v that_o the_o grow_a endeavour_n of_o the_o godly_a after_o more_o purity_n of_o worship_n and_o to_o be_v purge_v from_o all_o the_o pollution_n of_o the_o man_n of_o sin_n be_v not_o too_o rash_o brand_v with_o the_o odium_fw-la of_o separation_n and_o breach_n of_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n as_o for_o degenerate_v into_o the_o rigid_a separation_n we_o think_v you_o need_v not_o fear_v it_o upon_o our_o principle_n no_o more_o then_o upon_o the_o common_a ground_n of_o nonconformist_n and_o you_o know_v what_o they_o infer_v upon_o those_o principle_n now_o just_o it_o concern_v you_o to_o consider_v as_o well_o as_o 〈◊〉_d but_o as_o it_o be_v true_o observe_v in_o england_n it_o be_v the_o justification_n and_o press_v of_o ceremony_n and_o other_o corruption_n that_o drive_v many_o to_o separation_n not_o the_o endeavour_n of_o further_a reformation_n so_o you_o may_v fear_v the_o too_o too_o much_o conformity_n of_o minister_n to_o humane_a imposition_n and_o justification_n of_o the_o liturgy_n etc._n etc._n have_v and_o will_v more_o dangerous_o alienate_v godly_a mind_n from_o your_o church_n and_o ministry_n and_o so_o drive_v to_o separation_n then_o all_o the_o principle_n and_o progress_n of_o the_o godly_a in_o way_n of_o reformation_n and_o we_o shall_v refer_v it_o to_o the_o judicious_a and_o common_a experience_n whether_o the_o discovery_n of_o the_o corrupt_a worship_n in_o the_o liturgy_n or_o contrary_a conformity_n to_o it_o be_v the_o great_a block_n of_o offence_n and_o strengthen_v the_o hand_n of_o the_o separatist_n most_o which_o yet_o you_o after_o object_n unto_o we_o we_o suppose_v the_o worthy_n of_o this_o renown_a parliament_n together_o with_o those_o of_o the_o reverend_a assembly_n will_v not_o so_o soon_o have_v remove_v the_o whole_a frame_n and_o fabric_n of_o this_o book_n nor_o whole_o stop_v up_o this_o pit_n if_o build_v of_o battlement_n about_o it_o and_o keep_v watchman_n near_o it_o to_o bid_v passenger_n take_v heed_n have_v be_v the_o ready_a way_n to_o cure_v separation_n nor_o do_v we_o think_v that_o this_o reverend_a man_n of_o god_n will_v have_v be_v in_o more_o jealousy_n and_o fear_n of_o we_o if_o he_o have_v consider_v how_o tender_o we_o return_v our_o answer_n to_o the_o question_n then_o of_o those_o faithful_a witness_n in_o scotland_n who_o separate_v their_o life_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o death_n rather_o than_o communicate_v in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o book_n and_o yet_o we_o think_v they_o deserve_v a_o better_a place_n then_o to_o be_v rank_v so_o near_o to_o the_o rigid_a separation_n notwithstanding_o for_o ourselves_o we_o be_v hearty_o thankful_a for_o what_o he_o humble_o wish_v and_o for_o his_o jealousy_n over_o we_o so_o far_o as_o it_o be_v godly_a but_o so_o far_o as_o such_o wish_n cast_v a_o cloud_n of_o evil_a suspicion_n over_o we_o in_o the_o heart_n of_o other_o as_o if_o we_o be_v go_v fast_a than_o we_o know_v where_o to_o stay_v we_o wish_v humble_o such_o word_n have_v be_v spare_v till_o some_o other_o time_n concern_v this_o distinction_n a_o letter_n of_o this_o subject_n be_v cite_v print_v without_o the_o author_n knowledge_n that_o put_v a_o difference_n indeed_o between_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o separatist_n proper_a to_o they_o qua_fw-la tale_n and_o other_o reason_n use_v by_o himself_o common_a to_o other_o studious_a of_o reformation_n to_o which_o we_o answer_v 1_o that_o letter_n acknowledge_v no_o such_o distinction_n of_o separation_n rigid_a and_o moderate_a only_o if_o you_o will_v a_o separation_n from_o church_n and_o separation_n from_o the_o sin_n and_o corruption_n of_o church_n which_o latter_a be_v all_o we_o profess_v 2_o those_o reason_n which_o the_o letter_n ascribe_v to_o they_o qua_fw-la tâ—…les_fw-la will_v we_o suppose_v be_v find_v in_o their_o book_n thus_o far_o that_o the_o prayer_n preach_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n be_v unlawful_a because_o offer_v in_o a_o false_a church_n by_o a_o false_a ministry_n for_o the_o subject_n of_o antichrist_n kingdom_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o separatist_n in_o the_o world_n because_o none_o it_o be_v say_v none_o plead_v against_o the_o book_n of_o commonâ—…prayer_n as_o unlawful_a because_o offer_v up_o in_o a_o false_a church_n be_v strange_a to_o we_o that_o this_o learned_a author_n shall_v not_o read_v or_o observe_v the_o same_o exceed_v frequent_o in_o the_o separatist_n write_n take_v but_o a_o taste_n in_o the_o first_o page_n of_o mr._n smith_n against_o bernard_n in_o his_o parallel_n censure_n and_o observation_n his_o word_n pag._n 9_o be_v these_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o a_o erroneous_a constitution_n of_o a_o church_n be_v a_o real_a idol_n and_o the_o prayer_n they_o offer_v with_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o wicked_a come_v from_o that_o false_a constitution_n be_v taint_v with_o the_o idolatry_n of_o that_o constitution_n and_o pag._n 10._o it_o be_v idolatry_n to_o offer_v up_o service_n to_o god_n in_o a_o church_n of_o a_o false_a constitution_n and_o pag._n 13._o tell_v i_o mr._n bernard_n can_v there_o be_v a_o true_a ministry_n true_a baptism_n true_a faith_n true_a prayer_n true_a preach_v and_o administer_a the_o supper_n true_a excommunication_n in_o a_o church_n which_o be_v false_o constitute_v do_v the_o lord_n accept_v the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o church_n constitute_v by_o jeroboam_n so_o page_n 14._o a_o church_n false_o constitute_v be_v not_o accept_v of_o god_n neither_o be_v their_o action_n ecclesiastical_a as_o prayer_n preach_v etc._n etc._n acceptable_a in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n and_o again_o a_o false_a ministry_n worship_n government_n may_v be_v in_o a_o true_a church_n through_o ignorance_n and_o the_o like_a but_o a_o true_a ministry_n worship_n government_n can_v possible_o be_v in_o a_o
exposition_n of_o this_o text_n we_o have_v not_o observe_v one_o substantial_a ground_n or_o approve_a author_n to_o be_v allege_v dr._n ames_n show_v the_o necessity_n of_o christian_n join_v themselves_o to_o some_o peculiar_a church_n give_v this_o reason_n quoniam_fw-la alius_fw-la fieri_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la quin_fw-la conturbentur_fw-la signa_fw-la illa_fw-la quibus_fw-la fideles_fw-la ab_fw-la infidelibus_fw-la discerni_fw-la possunt_fw-la 1_o cor._n 5.12_o but_o herein_o dr._n ames_n manifest_o show_v that_o by_o they_o without_o heathen_n and_o unbeliever_n must_v be_v understand_v and_o not_o believer_n though_o of_o no_o settle_a society_n for_o the_o time_n for_o thus_o we_o conceive_v he_o argue_v the_o sign_n whereby_o the_o faithful_a be_v to_o be_v discern_v from_o unbeliever_n must_v not_o be_v confound_v but_o unless_o christian_n make_v themselves_o actual_a member_n of_o a_o church_n the_o sign_n whereby_o the_o faithful_a be_v discern_v from_o unbeliever_n will_v be_v obscure_v and_o darken_v and_o if_o this_o be_v his_o reason_n how_o can_v that_o text_n be_v allege_v unless_o by_o man_n without_o infidel_n be_v understand_v answ_n first_o that_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o allege_v it_o in_o that_o sense_n and_o respect_v declare_v may_v appear_v by_o our_o answer_n to_o your_o objection_n second_o that_o we_o have_v one_o approve_a author_n so_o allege_v it_o viz._n doctor_n ames_n shall_v appear_v in_o clear_n his_o meaning_n from_o your_o objection_n 1._o grant_v that_o by_o man_n without_o according_a to_o doctor_n ames_n his_o reason_n infidel_n be_v understand_v by_o the_o apostle_n yet_o how_o shall_v the_o sign_n discern_v believer_n from_o unbeliever_n be_v confound_v by_o such_o as_o join_v not_o to_o some_o particular_a church_n if_o those_o believer_n do_v not_o in_o some_o respect_n stand_v without_o among_o unbeliever_n and_o the_o consequence_n be_v so_o plain_a that_o the_o own_o syllogism_n whereinto_o you_o cast_v his_o argument_n will_v have_v conclude_v so_o much_o if_o it_o have_v be_v suffer_v to_o speak_v out_o in_o the_o conclusion_n for_o in_o stead_n of_o say_v except_o such_o join_v to_o some_o church_n the_o sign_n will_v be_v darken_v and_o obscure_v the_o reason_n right_o conclude_v will_v have_v say_v fieri_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la it_o can_v be_v but_o the_o sign_n will_v be_v confound_v and_o therefore_o in_o his_o judgement_n it_o be_v unavoidablâ—…_n that_o such_o mix_v themselves_o with_o unbeliever_n that_o be_v without_o indeed_o proper_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n reply_n again_o doctor_n ames_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 17._o speak_v of_o infant_n to_o be_v receive_v say_v it_o be_v require_v first_o that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n by_o outward_a profession_n etc._n etc._n answ_n what_o you_o allege_v here_o out_o of_o doctor_n ames_n we_o confess_v show_v that_o he_o be_v very_o large_a in_o his_o charity_n about_o the_o baptise_v of_o infant_n extend_v the_o same_o to_o the_o child_n of_o a_o papist_n etc._n etc._n but_o it_o may_v seem_v by_o some_o passage_n that_o he_o understand_v by_o profession_n of_o faith_n such_o as_o live_v in_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o look_n at_o the_o child_n of_o a_o papist_n as_o one_o of_o a_o visible_a church_n for_o substance_n though_o so_o exceed_o corrupt_a but_o all_o this_o do_v not_o disprove_v that_o he_o understand_v 1_o cor._n 5.12_o otherwise_o then_o have_v be_v say_v what_o you_o allege_v out_o of_o his_o second_o manuduction_n concern_v the_o church_n of_o england_n we_o consent_v unto_o neither_o do_v we_o deny_v seal_n to_o any_o if_o they_o demand_v they_o as_o member_n of_o any_o true_a church_n in_o england_n and_o in_o a_o orderly_a way_n chap._n x._o consid_n 5._o reply_n to_o the_o first_o consideration_n if_o it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o divine_a institution_n to_o admit_v of_o approve_a christian_n lawful_o baptize_v walk_v in_o the_o faith_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a 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call_v but_o acknowledge_v church_n defective_a in_o matter_n of_o order_n as_o be_v say_v in_o the_o answer_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v a_o apparent_a wrong_n to_o we_o and_o to_o the_o reader_n so_o oft_o to_o put_v in_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v not_o in_o the_o controversy_n second_o if_o it_o be_v unlawful_a by_o divine_a institution_n may_v not_o evil_a consequence_n be_v add_v and_o if_o both_o hold_n be_v not_o our_o reason_n the_o more_o strong_a what_o need_v then_o such_o a_o reply_n three_o we_o have_v oft_o grant_v a_o remote_a right_n but_o next_o and_o immediate_a we_o still_o deny_v and_o we_o conceive_v no_o other_o order_n of_o god_n in_o his_o church_n to_o prevent_v such_o evil_n then_o by_o join_v to_o the_o institute_v church_n of_o christ_n reply_n seal_n may_v be_v profane_v when_o the_o dispenser_n can_v help_v it_o but_o here_o be_v no_o fear_n or_o danger_n of_o such_o consequence_n necessary_a to_o follow_v for_o we_o speak_v not_o of_o all_o sort_n at_o 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professor_n may_v prove_v here_o yet_o second_o if_o you_o add_v such_o as_o retain_v their_o membership_n in_o your_o church_n be_v recommend_v unto_o we_o by_o your_o church_n or_o by_o know_a godly_a minister_n we_o can_v then_o according_a to_o order_n receive_v they_o and_o avoid_v the_o confusion_n and_o inconvenience_n we_o object_v three_o if_o also_o it_o be_v take_v into_o the_o description_n know_v and_o sufficient_o approve_v of_o ourselves_o than_o the_o door_n be_v open_a to_o they_o to_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o though_o they_o can_v settle_v in_o the_o place_n of_o their_o present_a abode_n and_o this_o way_n of_o order_n will_v prevent_v the_o inconvenience_n but_o if_o we_o come_v to_o put_v a_o difference_n any_o other_o way_n we_o can_v avoid_v it_o but_o great_a offence_n will_v be_v give_v to_o many_o and_o the_o inconvenience_n object_v in_o some_o degree_n at_o least_o will_v follow_v here_o with_o we_o and_o 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consideration_n and_o to_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n who_o only_o can_v incline_v the_o heart_n of_o man_n to_o attend_v to_o any_o thing_n of_o god_n set_v before_o they_o though_o we_o be_v the_o mean_a and_o weak_a of_o many_o to_o take_v upon_o we_o thus_o to_o speak_v to_o our_o dear_a countryman_n yet_o through_o the_o grace_n of_o christ_n who_o put_v we_o into_o the_o ministry_n we_o have_v bestow_v a_o great_a part_n of_o our_o labour_n in_o these_o part_n neither_o we_o hope_v altogether_o in_o vain_a which_o make_v we_o somewhat_o the_o more_o engage_v and_o encourage_v to_o write_v as_o we_o do_v and_o now_o have_v thus_o far_o in_o this_o epistle_n and_o in_o the_o book_n follow_v testify_v our_o love_n to_o the_o truth_n and_o desire_n of_o the_o peace_n unity_n reformation_n and_o prosperity_n of_o our_o belove_a england_n and_o the_o church_n of_o god_n therein_o we_o commend_v both_o to_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o reader_n and_o all_o to_o the_o grace_n and_o blessing_n of_o christ_n jesus_n and_o rest_n from_o new-england_n novemb_n 28._o 1645._o tho._n allin_n tho._n shepard_n advertisement_n to_o the_o reader_n to_o the_o epistle_n of_o the_o author_n of_o this_o reply_n we_o say_v nothing_o because_o it_o savour_v for_o the_o most_o part_n of_o love_n and_o desire_v of_o unity_n which_o we_o thankful_o acknowledge_v only_o we_o can_v but_o take_v notice_n of_o two_o passage_n 1_o a_o complaint_n make_v against_o some_o stand_a affect_a new-england_n ward_n who_o have_v carry_v it_o so_o as_o if_o a_o chief_a part_n of_o holiness_n consist_v in_o separation_n and_o that_o therefore_o some_o have_v separate_v from_o all_o private_a and_o public_a communion_n there_o other_o from_o all_o public_a but_o not_o from_o private_a other_o from_o the_o sacrament_n only_o allow_v public_a communion_n otherwise_o to_o which_o we_o answer_v that_o as_o the_o church_n fall_v by_o degree_n into_o universal_a pollution_n by_o the_o apostasy_n foretell_v to_o be_v under_o the_o man_n of_o sin_n so_o by_o degree_n it_o recover_v it_o out_o of_o it_o again_o if_o therefore_o separation_n reach_v no_o far_o than_o separation_n from_o sin_n and_o such_o sin_n of_o church_n wherein_o ourselves_o in_o join_v with_o they_o must_v be_v involve_v we_o suppose_v such_o separation_n all_o due_a respect_n and_o love_v reserve_v and_o profess_v to_o the_o church_n themselves_o can_v just_o be_v account_v unwarrantable_a and_o it_o be_v the_o profession_n of_o the_o author_n in_o his_o epistle_n to_o plead_v for_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n no_o far_o than_o they_o hold_v communion_n with_o christ_n if_o any_o transgress_v these_o bound_n either_o in_o respect_n of_o private_a or_o public_a communion_n in_o england_n we_o must_v profess_v open_o that_o if_o any_o mourn_n for_o it_o we_o be_v or_o will_v be_v companion_n with_o they_o in_o that_o grief_n who_o heart_n bleed_v not_o to_o see_v god_n flock_n scatter_v and_o needless_a rent_n make_v that_o scarce_o truth_n or_o error_n can_v now_o adays_o be_v receive_v but_o it_o be_v maintain_v in_o a_o way_n of_o schism_n direct_o contrary_a to_o the_o gather_n and_o unite_n spirit_n of_o jesus_n christ_n a_o wide_a conscience_n call_v evil_a good_a and_o therefore_o can_v communicate_v with_o any_o evil_n a_o strait_a conscience_n call_v good_a evil_a as_o gerson_n observe_v and_o therefore_o can_v ready_o separate_v even_o from_o that_o which_o be_v good_a when_o rash_a and_o sudden_a man_n be_v grow_v master_n of_o their_o conscience_n it_o trouble_v not_o they_o from_o who_o they_o divide_v nor_o whither_o they_o run_v in_o separate_a way_n when_o weak_a yet_o godly_a man_n be_v under_o the_o tenderness_n yet_o much_o darkness_n of_o conscience_n be_v very_o timorous_a of_o way_n that_o be_v evil_a grow_v many_o time_n shy_a at_o least_o in_o simplicity_n be_v lead_v from_o way_n that_o afterward_o be_v find_v to_o be_v lawful_a and_o good_a it_o be_v the_o usual_a misery_n of_o english_a spirit_n either_o to_o spin_v the_o spider_n web_n and_o swallow_v down_o all_o corruption_n in_o church_n or_o so_o to_o break_v down_o the_o gap_n in_o forsake_v corruption_n utter_o to_o abandon_v the_o church_n themselves_o the_o wine_n of_o causeless_a separation_n have_v a_o spirit_n in_o it_o if_o god_n gracious_o prevent_v not_o that_o hurry_v man_n headlong_o to_o strange_a distance_n that_o in_o separate_n from_o public_a they_o separate_v from_o private_a in_o separate_v from_o corrupt_a church_n as_o no_o church_n they_o separate_v from_o the_o pure_a even_o those_o of_o their_o own_o in_o separate_v from_o pollution_n of_o god_n ordinance_n at_o last_o they_o fall_v to_o the_o storm_a of_o some_o if_o not_o to_o the_o utter_a renounce_n of_o all_o the_o ordinance_n themselves_o we_o mourn_v we_o say_v for_o such_o evil_n and_o can_v with_o bend_a knee_n desire_v our_o dear_a countryman_n to_o consider_v whether_o this_o be_v the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n jesus_n that_o so_o carry_v they_o to_o reject_v they_o who_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v not_o yet_o whole_o forsake_v and_o not_o rather_o with_o one_o heart_n and_o with_o bowel_n of_o compassion_n if_o any_o liberty_n can_v be_v procure_v to_o study_v how_o to_o heal_v the_o bleed_a breach_n and_o manifold_a evil_n of_o sick_a and_o sinful_a england_n that_o in_o their_o own_o recovery_n from_o pollution_n the_o whole_a may_v arise_v and_o share_v alike_o with_o they_o therein_o tolerate_v with_o all_o long-suffering_a many_o thing_n amiss_o &_o mourn_v daily_o after_o the_o lord_n till_o such_o time_n come_v wherein_o he_o will_v give_v his_o people_n his_o ordinance_n not_o only_o in_o purity_n but_o also_o in_o power_n when_o the_o lord_n shall_v be_v one_o and_o his_o name_n one_o zach._n 14.9_o over_o all_o the_o earth_n as_o for_o ourselves_o we_o look_v not_o upon_o our_o departure_n to_o these_o part_n to_o be_v a_o separation_n rigid_o take_v but_o a_o lawful_a secession_n or_o a_o heavenly_a translation_n from_o corrupt_a to_o more_o pure_a church_n by_o the_o hand_n of_o our_o god_n and_o how_o far_o we_o allow_v of_o separation_n the_o ensue_a treatise_n will_v declare_v 2_o the_o second_o be_v that_o we_o dissent_v one_o from_o another_o as_o much_o as_o other_o from_o we_o and_o perhaps_o the_o lesser_a part_n of_o we_o answ_n we_o confess_v we_o know_v but_o little_a and_o that_o but_o in_o part_n and_o therefore_o if_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o in_o some_o thing_n we_o do_v not_o dissent_v we_o shall_v not_o speak_v the_o truth_n nor_o say_v that_o we_o be_v sinful_a man_n yet_o this_o we_o must_v speak_v to_o his_o praise_n who_o we_o be_v and_o who_o we_o serve_v with_o our_o spirit_n in_o the_o gospel_n of_o his_o son_n that_o although_o satan_n have_v be_v oft_o busy_a to_o make_v breach_n among_o we_o yet_o the_o minister_n of_o christ_n have_v be_v hitherto_o general_o if_o not_o all_o of_o one_o heart_n and_o mind_n in_o the_o main_a and_o principal_a thing_n of_o his_o kingdom_n among_o we_o and_o which_o be_v observe_v by_o many_o where_o ever_o difference_n be_v sow_v yet_o the_o minister_n never_o disagree_v and_o that_o although_o some_o difference_n have_v and_o do_v arise_v before_o their_o convening_n together_o yet_o they_o never_o yet_o meet_v but_o grace_n have_v over-wrestled_n corruption_n peace_n trouble_n and_o truth_n error_n and_o so_o have_v most_o sweet_o accord_v in_o one_o the_o thought_n of_o which_o christ-like_a peaceablenesse_n of_o spirit_n and_o love_n as_o it_o oft_o sweeten_v many_o other_o sorrow_n so_o we_o desire_v to_o be_v spare_v herein_o and_o that_o this_o our_o crown_n may_v not_o be_v take_v from_o we_o by_o such_o passage_n suggest_v great_a difference_n as_o these_o be_v now_o for_o the_o reply_n itself_o we_o desire_v the_o reader_n to_o consider_v that_o we_o have_v neither_o time_n nor_o book_n reaâ—…y_v at_o hand_n to_o consider_v some_o of_o the_o quotation_n make_v in_o 〈◊〉_d argent_a and_o therefore_o be_v such_o testimony_n 〈◊〉_d cast_v not_o the_o balance_n one_o way_n or_o another_o we_o have_v pass_v most_o of_o they_o by_o with_o silence_n it_o have_v also_o be_v easy_a for_o we_o to_o have_v analyse_v more_o orderly_o the_o word_n of_o the_o reply_n then_o as_o they_o be_v set_v down_o but_o because_o we_o will_v not_o do_v the_o least_o wrong_a we_o have_v set_v they_o down_o as_o we_o find_v they_o in_o the_o book_n not_o every_o passage_n for_o that_o be_v needless_a but_o those_o thing_n wherein_o there_o seem_v to_o be_v any_o observable_a matter_n of_o dispute_n between_o we_o nor_o be_v we_o conscious_a of_o do_v the_o author_n the_o least_o wrong_n in_o set_v down_o his_o own_o word_n as_o hereafter_o you_o find_v they_o we_o confess_v that_o in_o sundry_a of_o our_o
that_o of_o ananias_n and_o saphira_n where_o god_n have_v not_o bind_v they_o to_o debar_v approve_a christian_n from_o the_o seal_n because_o they_o can_v promise_v as_o settle_a member_n to_o abide_v in_o the_o society_n and_o yet_o charge_v they_o as_o man_n that_o against_o light_n refuse_v subjection_n to_o the_o gospel_n this_o be_v that_o which_o we_o can_v approve_v which_o yet_o we_o suspect_v will_v follow_v from_o your_o judgement_n and_o desire_v to_o be_v resolve_v in_o your_o practice_n answ_n here_o be_v a_o great_a heap_n of_o heavy_a crimination_n gather_v together_o and_o cast_v upon_o we_o upon_o very_o weak_a ground_n upon_o mistake_n suspicion_n and_o we_o fear_v too_o much_o credulity_n give_v to_o some_o clamorous_a person_n return_v to_o england_n and_o too_o little_a credit_n give_v to_o our_o true_a relation_n and_o faithful_a profession_n most_o of_o these_o have_v be_v clear_v in_o the_o former_a passage_n where_o we_o meet_v with_o they_o and_o we_o marvel_v how_o they_o come_v in_o so_o twist_v together_o here_o again_o we_o shall_v here_o only_o clear_v ourselves_o of_o the_o first_o and_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o their_o proper_a place_n to_o see_v our_o answer_n to_o the_o other_o here_o it_o be_v impute_v unto_o we_o that_o we_o have_v devise_v a_o rite_n to_o preserve_v the_o unity_n and_o prevent_v the_o dissolution_n of_o the_o body_n which_o we_o conceive_v be_v intend_v of_o this_o promise_n of_o not_o removal_n without_o leave_n which_o promise_n be_v not_o require_v of_o we_o nor_o make_v in_o our_o church_n covenant_n as_o we_o have_v say_v and_o the_o ground_n of_o this_o imputation_n be_v also_o a_o mere_a mistake_n arise_v from_o the_o confound_a of_o a_o second_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n against_o our_o first_o reason_n with_o the_o second_o reason_n of_o our_o practice_n which_o be_v distinct_a and_o have_v a_o different_a scope_n for_o whereas_o some_o may_v object_v that_o this_o reason_n from_o the_o covenant_n hold_v with_o such_o as_o grant_v such_o a_o covenant_n lawful_a the_o answer_n say_v that_o some_o indeed_o question_v the_o necessity_n of_o it_o but_o we_o hope_v you_o do_v not_o question_v the_o lawfulness_n and_o thereupon_o the_o answer_n first_o give_v reason_n and_o proof_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o it_o and_o second_o for_o the_o necessity_n which_o be_v take_v from_o the_o nature_n of_o all_o society_n incorporate_v which_o by_o a_o fundamental_a rule_n do_v require_v of_o all_o that_o enter_v into_o they_o and_o partake_v of_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o to_o conform_v to_o all_o such_o lawful_a rite_n and_o order_n as_o be_v expedient_a for_o the_o well_o be_v of_o that_o society_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o will_v be_v injurious_a to_o he_o to_o offer_v and_o confusion_n in_o they_o to_o accept_v and_o from_o hence_o it_o easy_o follow_v that_o a_o church_n be_v a_o body_n of_o a_o people_n enjoy_v privilege_n together_o it_o be_v necessary_a fundamental_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v join_v in_o some_o promise_n or_o covenant_n which_o covenant_n though_o in_o civil_a society_n it_o may_v consist_v in_o rite_n and_o order_n devise_v by_o themselves_o for_o their_o good_a yet_o in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n this_o covenant_n be_v no_o other_o but_o to_o perform_v the_o duty_n require_v in_o the_o gospel_n towards_o god_n and_o one_o another_o without_o any_o rite_n or_o order_n devise_v by_o themselves_o as_o we_o profess_v in_o set_v forth_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o this_o be_v the_o true_a scope_n of_o those_o word_n let_v any_o judge_n what_o ground_n be_v give_v by_o we_o of_o such_o a_o imputation_n of_o devise_v rite_n etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v the_o second_o reason_n in_o the_o answer_n give_v any_o ground_n of_o this_o imputation_n for_o though_o it_o dispute_v from_o the_o necessary_a ruin_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o church_n if_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o any_o member_n when_o whither_o and_o wherefore_o he_o please_v to_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n without_o consent_n yet_o there_o be_v not_o one_o syllable_n that_o give_v a_o hint_n of_o any_o rite_n custom_n or_o order_n devise_v by_o we_o to_o prevent_v the_o same_o but_o for_o the_o avoid_n thereof_o we_o still_o whole_o and_o only_o bind_v ourselves_o to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n to_o direct_v order_n and_o reform_v all_o action_n of_o this_o nature_n and_o to_o show_v unto_o man_n whether_o they_o may_v lawful_o remove_v or_o not_o remove_v not_o require_v any_o express_a promise_n to_o the_o contrary_a in_o this_o particular_a no_o more_o than_o in_o other_o and_o thus_o we_o hope_v we_o have_v resolve_v you_o of_o our_o practice_n as_o you_o desire_v to_o conclude_v this_o passage_n give_v we_o leave_v without_o offence_n to_o say_v thus_o much_o although_o through_o the_o grace_n of_o christ_n we_o desire_v humble_o to_o submit_v to_o this_o part_n of_o our_o trial_n even_o to_o go_v through_o evil_a report_n as_o well_o as_o good_a yea_o all_o the_o reproach_n and_o cruel_a mock_n of_o the_o world_n know_v that_o we_o have_v deserve_v much_o more_o from_o the_o hand_n of_o that_o god_n without_o who_o providence_n a_o tongue_n can_v not_o move_v against_o we_o yet_o we_o can_v but_o account_n be_v one_o of_o our_o poor_a affliction_n to_o suffer_v in_o this_o kind_n from_o the_o pen_n or_o tongue_n of_o our_o dear_o belove_a brethren_n for_o who_o we_o daily_o pray_v and_o to_o who_o we_o hope_v we_o shall_v never_o be_v provoke_v to_o return_v any_o other_o language_n then_o savour_v of_o love_n and_o respect_n but_o we_o must_v confess_v we_o meet_v with_o so_o many_o sore_a crimination_n oft_o upon_o mere_a mistake_n cast_v not_o only_o upon_o ourselves_o but_o the_o truth_n and_o way_n of_o god_n which_o we_o profess_v and_o that_o both_o by_o this_o learned_a author_n and_o some_o other_o that_o we_o can_v be_v so_o senseless_a of_o the_o dishonour_n be_v reflect_v upon_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n herein_o as_o whole_o to_o be_v silent_a and_o groan_n out_o the_o grief_n of_o our_o spirit_n to_o he_o that_o know_v our_o heart_n wherefore_o we_o humble_o beseech_v all_o our_o godly_a brethren_n to_o bear_v with_o we_o a_o little_a if_o after_o all_o the_o harsh_a passage_n of_o this_o reply_n such_o a_o heap_n of_o accusation_n as_o be_v here_o throw_v upon_o we_o move_v we_o to_o present_v to_o the_o reader_n a_o short_a view_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v unjust_o and_o unground_o cast_v upon_o we_o and_o which_o we_o can_v but_o think_v have_v draw_v a_o black_a cloud_n over_o the_o glory_n of_o the_o holy_a discipline_n of_o christ_n which_o he_o have_v here_o set_v up_o among_o we_o to_o omit_v the_o general_a frame_n of_o this_o reply_n in_o present_v our_o opinion_n and_o way_n to_o the_o people_n as_o if_o we_o concur_v general_o with_o those_o of_o the_o rigid_a separation_n and_o differ_v almost_o in_o every_o thing_n from_o such_o godly_a brethren_n as_o have_v breathe_v after_o purity_n of_o ordinance_n and_o reformation_n to_o omit_v also_o the_o frequent_a insert_v of_o such_o term_n unto_o our_o question_n and_o argument_n contrary_a to_o the_o true_a state_n thereof_o which_o render_v every_o thing_n harsh_a and_o full_a of_o rigidness_n to_o the_o ear_n of_o the_o reader_n as_o have_v be_v observe_v by_o we_o and_o omit_v also_o divers_a other_o supposition_n and_o objection_n we_o shall_v only_o desire_v those_o who_o have_v take_v up_o evil_a thought_n concern_v these_o church_n and_o the_o way_n of_o christ_n we_o walk_v in_o from_o this_o reply_n to_o note_v these_o particular_a imputation_n in_o this_o short_a chapter_n and_o upon_o what_o ground_n they_o be_v build_v as_o page_n 79._o that_o we_o hinder_v man_n from_o entrance_n into_o church_n society_n because_o they_o can_v promise_v continuance_n in_o the_o place_n and_o run_v upon_o this_o strain_n he_o say_v be_v it_o ever_o hear_v of_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n from_o the_o begin_n thereof_o unto_o this_o day_n that_o any_o such_o thing_n be_v propound_v unto_o and_o require_v of_o member_n to_o be_v admit_v into_o church_n fellowship_n here_o be_v a_o loud_a outcry_n and_o who_o will_v not_o think_v but_o that_o we_o usual_o propound_v and_o require_v such_o a_o thing_n in_o our_o admission_n which_o yet_o be_v nothing_o so_o but_o what_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o all_o this_o look_v a_o little_a before_o and_o he_o say_v if_o such_o a_o promise_n be_v require_v again_o ibidem_fw-la say_v he_o we_o think_v the_o church_n be_v overrigid_a in_o exact_v such_o a_o condition_n of_o the_o member_n and_o the_o member_n go_v beyond_o their_o measure_n as_o busy_a body_n and_o what_o be_v the_o ground_n it_o follow_v if_o they_o arrogate_v
peter_n declare_v what_o a_o one_o shall_v be_v take_v etc._n etc._n acts._n 6._o deacon_n be_v choose_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n but_o in_o this_o election_n the_o people_n do_v first_o choose_v when_o most_o common_o the_o apostle_n instruct_v the_o people_n and_o go_v before_o they_o in_o the_o election_n and_o they_o consent_v act._n 14.23_o the_o apostle_n by_o consent_n choose_v etc._n etc._n this_o restriction_n of_o the_o people_n power_n to_o a_o after_o consent_n at_o least_o ordinary_o will_v not_o hold_v if_o the_o evident_a light_n of_o act_n 6._o can_v not_o be_v deny_v and_o the_o other_o place_n be_v more_o obscure_a why_o shall_v not_o that_o place_n with_o its_o light_n clear_v the_o rest_n but_o that_o in_o act._n 1._o be_v as_o evident_a peter_n prove_v the_o need_n of_o such_o a_o choice_n to_o be_v make_v show_v it_o must_v be_v one_o that_o have_v so_o long_o converse_v with_o christ_n to_o witness_v such_o thing_n and_o further_o he_o do_v not_o lead_v they_o there_o may_v be_v twenty_o such_o but_o they_o choose_v two_o as_o a_o preparative_n act_n to_o apostleship_n verse_n 23._o and_o who_o be_v they_o but_o such_o as_o they_o speak_v unto_o viz._n the_o disciple_n verse_n 15._o who_o he_o call_v man_n and_o brethren_n verse_n 16._o so_o act._n 14.23_o lift_v up_o of_o hand_n be_v the_o sign_n of_o election_n not_o of_o a_o after_o consent_n last_o by_o this_o doctrine_n how_o shall_v the_o church_n come_v by_o officer_n when_o she_o have_v none_o to_o go_v before_o she_o in_o choose_v for_o she_o must_v she_o loose_v her_o right_n or_o take_v who_o other_o will_v choose_v for_o she_o and_o impose_v upon_o she_o reply_n in_o the_o primitive_a time_n after_o the_o apostle_n one_o church_n may_v elect_v a_o pastor_n for_o another_o etc._n etc._n answ_n 1_o if_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n one_o church_n shall_v propound_v and_o advise_v another_o to_o choose_v such_o leave_v they_o free_a to_o take_v or_o refuse_v this_o be_v lawful_a in_o case_n but_o otherwise_o it_o be_v a_o plain_a usurpation_n and_o we_o must_v leave_v scripture_n rule_v and_o pattern_n to_o justify_v it_o 2_o we_o grant_v in_o a_o safe_a sense_n there_o may_v be_v communis_fw-la electio_fw-la whereby_o a_o fit_a man_n be_v propound_v by_o church_n or_o minister_n to_o be_v choose_v by_o another_o people_n and_o thus_o the_o philadelphian_o may_v elect_v a_o fit_a pastor_n for_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n as_o ignatius_n exhot_n with_o sundry_a like_o instance_n in_o the_o first_o time_n after_o the_o apostle_n and_o this_o we_o deny_v not_o may_v lawful_o be_v now_o but_o this_o be_v nothing_o to_o that_o electio_fw-la singularis_fw-la whereby_o a_o people_n choose_v one_o to_o be_v their_o minister_n of_o which_o we_o speak_v for_o it_o be_v evident_a from_o the_o testimony_n of_o cyprian_a oft_o allege_v that_o it_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o people_n to_o choose_v worthy_a minister_n and_o reject_v the_o unworthy_a and_o ambrose_n think_v that_o he_o be_v worthy_o think_v to_o be_v elect_v divinâ—…_n judicio_fw-la who_o all_o the_o people_n desire_n ambros_n lib._n 10._o ep._n 82._o it_o be_v very_o true_a that_o as_o the_o time_n grow_v worse_a the_o election_n be_v oft_o disturb_v sometime_o by_o the_o clergy_n choose_v without_o the_o people_n of_o which_o athanasius_n complain_v sometime_o by_o the_o people_n carry_v it_o tumultuous_o sometime_o the_o emperor_n interpose_v but_o this_o and_o like_a corruption_n can_v forfeit_v the_o liberty_n of_o the_o church_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v it_o and_o therefore_o he_o that_o be_v no_o great_a friend_n to_o the_o people_n liberty_n yet_o ingenuous_o say_v that_o although_o the_o people_n be_v bellua_fw-la multorum_fw-la capitum_fw-la and_o most_o apt_a to_o be_v tumultuous_a yet_o this_o be_v not_o innâ—…ted_v to_o a_o believe_a people_n qui_fw-la non_fw-la minus_fw-la nunc_fw-la quam_fw-la oliâ—…_n gravis_fw-la esset_fw-la in_o electionibus_fw-la as_o publicae_fw-la utilitatis_fw-la studiosissima_fw-la spalta_n de_fw-fr rep._n eccles_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 3._o reply_n if_o here_o it_o be_v question_v whether_o your_o election_n of_o the_o people_n be_v essential_a to_o the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n we_o answer_v first_o a_o thing_n be_v essential_a two_o way_n either_o as_o absolute_o necessary_a so_o as_o the_o thing_n can_v have_v no_o existence_n without_o it_o or_o necessary_a to_o the_o integrity_n of_o a_o thing_n so_o that_o it_o be_v maim_v â—…i_n about_o it_o again_o the_o people_n be_v either_o few_o in_o number_n and_o simple_a unable_a to_o judge_v of_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o a_o minister_n or_o they_o be_v more_o in_o number_n increase_v in_o wisdom_n sound_a in_o faith_n and_o able_a to_o discern_v of_o thing_n that_o differ_v in_o the_o first_o sense_n the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n be_v not_o necessary_a or_o essential_a in_o the_o second_o his_o call_z in_o that_o respect_n be_v maim_v answ_n it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o here_o we_o dispute_v of_o the_o outward_a call_n of_o church-officer_n now_o the_o very_a essence_n of_o any_o outward_a call_n do_v lie_v in_o the_o right_n and_o power_n of_o they_o that_o elect_v if_o all_o the_o country_n of_o england_n shall_v elect_v or_o call_v a_o lord_n major_a for_o london_n be_v they_o never_o so_o many_o and_o wise_a it_o be_v a_o mere_a nullity_n and_o why_o because_o the_o right_n of_o election_n be_v not_o in_o they_o but_o if_o the_o citizen_n in_o who_o the_o right_a lie_n do_v elect_v though_o weak_o he_o have_v the_o true_a essence_n of_o the_o call_n if_o other_o elect_v a_o major_a the_o city_n will_v receive_v he_o submit_v to_o he_o and_o so_o give_v their_o consent_n he_o may_v be_v say_v to_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o that_o call_v though_o not_o a_o orderly_a and_o lawful_a election_n and_o so_o maim_v so_o it_o be_v here_o second_o if_o in_o our_o election_n of_o the_o people_n be_v the_o scripture_n way_n of_o election_n the_o proper_a right_n and_o power_n be_v seat_v by_o christ_n in_o the_o church_n unto_o who_o they_o be_v to_o minister_v than_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o the_o very_a essence_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v stand_v in_o their_o election_n or_o at_o least_o in_o their_o after_o consent_n and_o subjection_n to_o his_o ministry_n in_o which_o case_n we_o grant_v though_o the_o call_n be_v maim_v yet_o it_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o a_o true_a call_n but_o if_o the_o people_n will_v not_o receive_v such_o as_o be_v impose_v upon_o they_o he_o have_v no_o call_n at_o all_o but_o usurp_v the_o same_o and_o it_o be_v a_o mere_a nullity_n and_o therefore_o it_o concern_v church_n the_o more_o to_o consider_v what_o they_o do_v in_o receive_v and_o submit_v to_o such_o unworthy_a minister_n as_o be_v oft_o impose_v upon_o they_o but_o if_o the_o right_a and_o power_n of_o elect_a minister_n be_v in_o any_o other_o person_n let_v it_o be_v show_v from_o the_o scripture_n for_o we_o be_v not_o much_o move_v in_o such_o case_n with_o the_o corrupt_a custom_n of_o aftertime_n and_o this_o also_o show_v what_o kind_n of_o call_v such_o man_n have_v that_o be_v ordain_v by_o prelate_n at_o large_a without_o any_o election_n at_o all_o if_o they_o be_v minister_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n than_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v bind_v to_o receive_v they_o and_o submit_v to_o their_o office_n but_o no_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o therefore_o not_o the_o whole_a be_v bind_v to_o submit_v to_o they_o and_o therefore_o indeed_o they_o have_v no_o office_n nor_o calling_n as_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n except_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v they_o be_v evangelist_n apostle_n or_o prophet_n reply_n if_o the_o people_n be_v few_o and_o simple_a they_o stand_v in_o â—â—re_a need_n of_o guidance_n from_o their_o own_o elder_n and_o other_o church_n if_o many_o and_o full_a of_o wisdom_n their_o liberty_n to_o choose_v be_v the_o great_a and_o the_o great_a wrong_v to_o be_v deprive_v of_o it_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o primitive_a church_n show_v this_o for_o many_o age_n sometime_o man_n be_v propound_v to_o the_o church_n to_o be_v choose_v sometime_o the_o chief_a leave_v whole_o to_o they_o answ_n 1_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n what_o light_n or_o derection_n a_o church_n need_v to_o receive_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v lie_v not_o in_o the_o propound_v or_o advise_v of_o any_o to_o elect_v he_o but_o in_o the_o election_n of_o such_o as_o have_v the_o true_a right_n so_o to_o do_v which_o be_v still_o in_o the_o church_n though_o few_o and_o weak_a if_o a_o true_a church_n and_o yet_o you_o produce_v not_o one_o scripture_n example_n of_o any_o officer_n propound_v