turne ye are to gredie man remember that qui cupit totum perdit totum But let vs sée your sixe demaundes whether they be reasonable and to be graunted yea or no. There are therefore say you many thinges to be considered first that Christ lefte one to rule his vvhole Churche in his steade from time to time vnto the ende of the vvorlde Is this your first request to be considered and graunted M. Stapleton now surely a reasonable demaund to be considered vpon And woorthie to haue that Salomon graunted to Adonias for asking of Abisaâ—…g to wife Wise king Salomon saw he might aswell haue asked the crowne from his head yea his head from his shoulders and who so vnwise that seeth not ye might aswell aske the whole controuersie to be graunted you and graunt ye this what néede ye propounde your other principles following How be it let vs sée what they be also Secondly we muste consider ye say that this one vvas S. Peter the Apostle and novv are the Bishops of Rome his successours Out of doubt ye had on some great considering câ—…ppe M. Stapleton when you considered that the Bishop should haue considered this He was much to blame he considered it not but M. Stapl. and ye were as wise as God might haue made you ye would haue better coÌ„sidered with your selfe than to thinke others haue so litle consideration as to graunt ye this your false and foolishe principle Thirdly say you that albeit the Bishop of Rome had no such vniuersall gouernment ouer the vvhole yet that he is and euer vvas the Patriarche of Englande and of the vvhole VVest Church and so hath as much to do here as any other Patriarche in his Patriarchshippe It is a signe M. Stap â–ª ye shrewdly doubte the former twains woulde neuer be graunted that so soone would be content to become a Patriarche of a piece from a Pope of the whole which though it sheweth lesse haughtinesse in you that would play small game rather than sit out yet perchance your Pope is of Alexanders spirite to whome Darius hauing offred halfe his dominions if I were Alexander ê™ Parmenio I would take it so would I ê™ Alexander if I were Parmenio And so perchance your Pope will say to you if I were Master Stapleton I would be content at least to be a Patriarche and perchance a worse rowme woulde serue But beyng the Bishop of Rome he will say Aut Papa aut nihil And therefore least ye get his curse before ye aske our consent the surest way were to know how he will like of this your limitation and when he shal be content then propose it to vs to consider thereon But I see ye like not greatly to stande hereon for fourthly say you Then all vvere it that he had nothing to intermedle vvith vs nor as Pope nor as Patriarche yet can not this supremacie of a ciuill Prince be iustified VVhereof he is not capable especially a vvoman but it must remayne in some spirituall man. Your must is very mustie M. Stapl. and smelleth of the pumpe of Romes ship Your Sequence is as badde the B. of Rome neyther as Pope nor as Patriarche is supreme gouernour in Ecclesiasticall causes in England Ergo No ciuill Prince man or woman is capable of it Againe There must be one spirituall man that must haue an vniuersall gouernment ouer the whole Churche Ergo â–ª A ciuill Prince may haue no particuler gouernement in his particuler Churche The antecedents in déede are true of bothe For neither hath the Pope as Pope or Patriarche or any otherwise any supreme gouernement ouer Englande as you presuppose he had none and yet the Prince both may haue and hath some supreme gouernement ouer vs For in déede all supreme gouernement suche as the Pope vsurped she neither hath nor may haue nor requireth nor belongs to any creature but is due to Christ alone He is that spirituall man that your other antecedent speaketh of if ye meane him it is true if you meane any other it is but your false presupposall though the consequentes whereon we stande followeth neither way neither doe ye laboure once to proue them But is here all things we muste consider no say you for fiftly Besides this the Catholikes say that as there vvas neuer any such president heretofore in the catholike Church so at this present there is no suche excepte in Englande neither among the Lutherans the Suinglians the Suenkfeldians or Anabaptists or any other secte that at this day raygneth or rageth in the vvorlde None of these I say agnyse their ciuill Prince as supreme gouernour in al causes spirituall and temporall Let goe these raging termes of sectes M. Sta. to their common places and I pray ye tell vs once agayne who sayth thus Who euen the Catholikes say so But whome meane you by the Catholiks The Papists Then gentle M. Stap. haue me commended to those your Papisticall Catholikes that ye say say so and aske them agayne if all be Gospell that they do say or no. Tushe man will M Stap. replie will ye not beléeue the Catholikes Why then sixtly and Laste of all I saye and M. Feck vvill also say that euen M. Horne him selfe in this his aunsvvere retreateth so farre back from his assertion of supreme gouernement in all causes spirituall and temporall vvhiche is the state and keye of the vvhole question that he plucketh from the Prince the chiefe and principall matters and causes ecclesiasticall as vve shall hereafter playnely shevve by his ovvne vvordes This geare goeth harde indéede The B. is nowe driuen to asore straight But syr might a man be so bolde to aske your mastership what are you and M. Feck are ye not Catholikes that when ye haue saide the catholikes say so ye come rushing in say Last of all I say and M. Feck vvill also say you make vs doubte least ye be no Catholikes and withall to suspect when ye cal your selfe and your client M. Feck to witnesse some partialitie in your sayings least the sole will holde with the shoe and that as two false witnesses came in agaynst our sauiour Christ with I say so and he vvill say so also so woulde you compact togither to slander the B. herein with I say so and M. Feck vvil say so also But by both your leaues may I be so bolde as to set your I say so and his I say so also asyde and desire ye to proue your so saying Why say you doubt ye of that we shall here after plainly shevve it by hys owne vvordes These are but vvords M. Stap. and ioly promises if ye can shevve it so playnly why shevve ye it not playnly here where ye say it so playnly or else haue shevved at the least where the B. doth thus which till ye shall playnely shewe this your â–ª bolde and playne saying may be suspected for a playne lye But M. Stap. shaking of the further
you say for the which I referre me to all autentike and auncient recordes as well of Englande as of other nations Ye say well herein master Stapleton and we take your offer And fiâ—…st let vs sée for other Nations Did Iames euen the first Bishop of Hierusalem acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome Was he confirmed by the same Sea when as yet the same Sea was not to be acknowledged or be confirmed by If as you say the B. can be no prelate of the Gaâ—…ter being no prelate at all how could that Sea be acknowledged that was not at all Moreouer do ye thinke that Timothie Bishoppe of Ephesus or Titus of Crâ—…ta and all other Bishoppes of Asia or Grece that Sainte Paule made acknowledged the supremacie of the Sea of Rome or were confirmed by the same when Sainte Paule that ordeyned them sayeth he receyued his authoritie of no man And when he came to Rome he neyther came to haue his Bishops confirmed of the Sea of Rome nor he founde anye Sea there nor sought Peter for the saide purpose else where nor thought himselfe any whitte inferiour to him much lesse thought he of any suche supremacie eyther of his Sea or him Nowe if the first and originall of all those Bishoprikes Eastwarde neyther acknovvledged anye supremacie of that Sea nor were confirmed by the same What plea can you make of theyr succession If they swarued from theyr predecessours and first founders your selfe confesse it is no good succession but a newe sewte and race And if it be good and lawfull succession that the Bishops of the East Churches succeded by then neyther acknowledged they anye supremacie of the Sea of Rome nor were confirmed by the same euen which not onelye the true autentyke and auncient recordes doe testifie howe they agréed although in sayth yet nothing lyke in disciplines rytes and orders to whiche the Romaine Sea doth sweare all those Bishoppes that are confyrmed by it and acknowledge obedience therevnto But also euen to this daye thoughe one or two Bishoppes nowe and then of late time for verye necessitie and hope of reliefe haue runne to the Sea of Rome yet by theyr ordinarie and customable succession euen from the Apostles times so long as they continued Christian neuer acknowledged they the supremacie of the Sea of Rome nor were confirmed by the same The like recordes for the Churches southward remaine not only of their beginnings from the other Apostles not from the Sea of Rome but also of their continuance howe they woulde not admitte anye supremacie of the same Sea ouer them and what contention they had thereabout As for their confirmations that they had them not from the sea of Rome but euen from the Emperour yea the Bishop of Rome himselfe and other from their princes the practise when we come thereto shall shewe And as east warde and southwarde so may we like wise reason of the Church westward where S. Paule after he had bene two yeare at Rome by the space of tenne yeares trauelled in Italie Spaine and Fraunce as witnesse Eusebius Epiphanius Ierome Euthalius Diaconus Nicephorus Beda Platina yea Frier Perionius that wrote the other daye de vitâ—…s Apostolorum that in Langue doâ—… he made a Bishoppe at Narbona who trauelled after with him in Spaine And if in all that space as it is most likely he made other Bishops shall we suppose they were not full Bishops till they had their Bulles from the Sea of Rome And if the first B. did not so your reason of succession fayleth So that your maior is false concerning other Nations Now let vs briefly sée howe it likewise fayles for England And as you say Namely in the foresayde Sea of VVinchester that from the first grafting and planting of the fayth in England there was not no not one in that Sea that did not acknowledge the supremacie of the Sea of Rome and was not confirmed by the same vntill the late time of master Poynet who otherwise also was but an vsurper the true Bishop then liuing by no lawful or ecclesiasticall order remoued or depriued The lawfull order and sufficient causes of B. Gardeners depriuation is extant and sette out in the booke of Monumentes Howe true a Bishop as ye call him he was if the acknowledging of obedience to the Sea of Rome bée an argument of a true Bishop his booke de vera obedientia of true obedience doth declare and almost all the time of his bishopriche he neuer acknowledged the supremacie to apperteine to the Sea of Rome but to the prince as the Bishop now doth there néede no recordes for the matter And as for olde recordes since the first grafting and planting of the faythe in Englande whiche is farre longer than eyther from your Apostle monke Augustine or from Birinus Bishop of Winchester the recordes do testifie howe the Christians whome your Augustine and his mates founde in thys Realme neyther kept the ceremonyes and rytes of the Romaine Churche nor admitted the Legantine authoritie of your sayde Apostle which argueth that theyr Bishoppes acknowledged not as you saye the supremacie of the Sea of Rome nor were confirmed by the same euen from Lucius till almost King Arthures tyme when the Heathen Sarons so preuayled in the west parts that euen in Winchester in King Arthures reigne Cerdicius erected a Temple of Heathen Idolles falsely called yet to this daye the Temple of Dagon as the olde recordes doe mention And therefore your maior is false for Englande also Now M. St. séeing the falsenesse of this argument of succession to be such that he dare not abide the triall of his recordes he flyeth from it and graunteth at the length the B. vocation to be good and sownd Yet hath he a stronger reason to disable him which is this No heretike ought to be admitted to a Byshops roome or if he be he forthwith ought to be remoued But for that yee are yoked or as ye pretende maryed ye are no doubt an Heretike Ergo were your vocation good and sounde yet haue you disabled your selfe to occupie that roome and eyther ought not to be admitted or forthwith ought ye to be remoued I aunswere the maior iâ—… true and if it were as truely executed none should better féele it than the popish prelates who confesse them selues not only for other Seas but euen for their hed and mother sea of Rome that diuers hereâ—…ikes haue bene B. thereof Who being so admitted I demaunde with Piers PlowmaÌ„ of you M. St. by this your maior who shall hang the Bell about the rattons necke who shall remoue an heretike Bishop of Rome I thinke it will belong or euer he remoue him selfe The minor of this argument is of the diuels sophisâ—…rie so S. Paule calleth it doctrinam daemoniorum and sayth let a B. be the husbande of one wife and so was Saint Peter who ye say was your first Bishoppe of Rome And yet neither was Saint
conclusion to make the sequele more dreadfull that after diuerse reconciliations with the Romaine Sea they fell into the Turkish captiuitie Why may it not as well be noted thereon that they neuer came into this extreme flanery of the Turke but their Empire continued aboue 1000. yeares till after those their reconciliatioâ—… made with the Pope then within 14. yeares they fell in the Turks captiuitie But of this more hereafter From the Gréek and â—…ast Church he procéedeth to the Affricanes making the like argument on them But to answere him briefly To reason thus from the vnitie of the Romaine Sea in fayth then to the obedience of the Romaine Sea in the supremacie nowe euery scholer will some say is a very good non seqâ—…tur The like common fallace à non causâ—… vt causâ—… he maketh of Hungarie and Lifelande fallen into the handes of the Turkes and Moscouites Bicause sayth he they forsooke the Pope and fell to Luther But if this argument be good demaunde of him how 〈◊〉 the â—…hodes Belgradum Buda and other cities and parts in Austria which likewise the Turk hath gotten be cleane forgetten here of him and not reckened vp in this number was it bicause they acknowledged none more than the Rhodians the Popes supremacie and yet fell into the Turkishe captiuitie so well as the other At the length he 〈◊〉 home to Englande and when he should here make the full conclusion of all these lamentable sequeles of reâ—…olt from the Romaine Sea in other Countreyes that the lyke shoulde lyghte on vs séeyng that his argumente contrarie to hys long and wycked hope doeth fayle in the conclusion least eyther hée shoulde shewe the follie of hys impertinent argumentes or vtter the vnnaturall malice that for his Pope and popishe religion he hath fostred long in his cankred breast agaynst his naturall prince and Countrey he turneth the Catte into the Panne not by concluding hys argument on the lyke issue to Englande but rawly and generally knitteth vp the matter thus But vvhat vvas the issue all the vvorlde knovveth and Englande the more pitie greeuously feeleth To this M. Stap I answere Thanks be giuen to God no suche isâ—…ue as you would conclude of other Countreys from errors and the Turke to vs It is you that abhorring the Gospell more than Turkerie feele this gréefe ye speake of for that your sequele holdeth no better in Englande Englande neither feareth the Turkes nor these your byous threates and would to God no parte of Christendome euen of those that you accounte moste Popishe catholike were no more subiecte to the inuasion and daunger of the Turkishe barbarous and Saraâ—…ins irruptions and tyrannie than Englande is and yet if God shoulde punishe any parte of Christendome by them though he vse by his secret Iustice their furie as a rodde to scourge their offences yet will not we nor may iustly make suche tragicall sequeles reasons to argue pro or contra on Religion as here you doe by these peoples to conclude agaynst vs But prayses be to God you can conclude nothing Englande euer since that through the Quéenes most excellent maiestie it hath enioyed the libertie of Gods moste holy worde hath maâ—…ger all your spites reioyced withall bothe tranquillitie wealth peace fréedome and aboue all things the fauour of God in Christ euen for that it hath escaped the spirituall bondage of your Pope farre worse than the bodily captinitie of the Turke God continue his mercy to vs and make vs thankfull for it Nowe since ye can not fasten any such sequele as ye wishe on Englande ye gather petite quarels and like a poâ—…her seeke corners to finde out some inconueniences not worthy answere And yet bicause ye resume them often times after and make muche ado about them as reading the Byble and other bookâ—…s suppressing Abbeys marriage of Priests oirginitie vovves no Church Byshops but Parliament Byshops the sacrament of the altare c. they are answered where ye handle them at large and not here whereye snatch at them Onely this your grosse lie I will note here about king Henries lawes Bicause ye cite it not that I remember any more Ye say that after his death and in the minoritie of his sonne king Edvvarde all the lavves that he had made touching matters of religion sauing against the supremacie vvere repelled and abolished What a manifest and impudent lie is this King Henrie besides the supremacie made lawes for the abolishing of shrines and pilgrimages of pulling downe Images of depressing popish sectaries Monks Friers Numies Heremits Anachores c. Were these lawes repelled and abolished after his death in the minoritie of king Edwarde Shewe it or else wipe your lippes for a foule lie hath beslabbered them Master Stap. All these former arguments and these extrauagant discourses consist on a wrong principle All this haue I spoken sayeth he to shevve it is most true that I haue sayde that there vvill neuer be redresse of error and heresie or any stay vvhere men are once gone from the vnitie of the Sea Apostolike vvhich is the vvell spring and fountaine of all vnitie in the Catholike fayth This false principle if we denie it him then all his arguments of absurdities and euents theron are not worth a rush But had he put in but one letter more and for vnitie had sayd vanitie it had bene a most true principle nor we woulde or coulde haue euer denyed the same The last reason of his Preface to leaue a pricke of discredite agaynst the Protestants in the readers minde is of our discorde and inconstancie in this question the assumption whereof being in déede nothing but slaunders of the prince the Realme and diuerse Godly learned men is partly sette out in his common place of slaunders and partlye shall be further particulerly aunswered as they come to hande in the booke where he discourseth on them Thus much for the pithe of all his argumentes conteyned in hys Preface to the Reader to winne hys minde to hys cause before hande and alienate it from ours but the wyse Reader wyll first reade or euer he giue his iudgement The answere to M. St. Counterblast on the Bishops Preface The first Deuision IN his answere to the B. Preface whereas the Bishop in the first Deuision for so M. Stapleton termeth euery seuerall portion that he answereth vnto sheweth the necessarie reasons that moued him to answere Master Feckenhams booke and the couert meaning of master Feckenham in secretly scatering his booke abroade that therein he shewed a further meaning than he durst plainely vtter and that the intent of the booke as might iustly be gathered was to engraft in the mindes of the subiects a misliking of the Q. maiestie as though she vsurped a power and authoritie in ecclesiasticall matters whereto she had no right to slaunder the whole realme as though it were estraunged and directly agaynst the Catholike Church tenouncing and refusing to haue communion therewith
Legates of the sea of Rome as the chiefe principall sea of Christendome Ergo We now in all our disputations of causes Ecclestastical especially concerning the supremacie should acknowledge the Pope by his Legates to be president thereof This argument followeth not M. Stapl. reasoning from that tune to this from their requiring to our submission from Aphrike to England from presence to presidence from certaine questions to all questions from matters of saithe to these in hande which your selfe say are nons From the chiefe and principall sea then to the vniuersall supremacie that the Pope claymeth now in all which pointes there is no sequele and therefore your argument is starke naught nor all your vayne excuses will hide their frowarde disobedience or strengthen the weaknesse of their naughtie cause in the saide disputation But let vs now saith M. St. returne to M. Horne for these matters were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 M. Stapleton looked quite besides his marke The third Diuision THe third Diuision sheweth the cause and occasion why M. Feck deliuered this his treatise to the Bishop not as he pretendeth to be resolued at the Bishops handes for he had sayd before that the matter it selfe was grounded here pointyng to his brest that shall neuer go out But beyng charged of the B. herefore that he had neither conscience nor constancie M. Feckenham shewed and deliuered this his treatise to the B. to shew what he had suffred for the same and how it was grounded and setled in him long before Which argueth first his falshood in pretending to haue offred the booke before to the B. as scruples by him to be resolued in And also his furder falshood in setting forth of his owne bald resolutions to his scruples vnder the B. name To the former parte M. Stapleton replieth it is an vnlikely tale and referreth it to his score of vntruthes Where it is answered vnto The later parte for the resolutions he leaueth it to a place more apropriate where the matter shal be more conueniently and more fully discused And this is all that he saith for the cléering of M. Feckenhams false title The fourth Diuision MAster Feckenham in the beginning of his treatise propounding one chiefe purpose and entente as he saithe of this Othe to be for a more sauegarde to be had of the Queenes royall person and her highnesse most quiet and prosperous raigne Offreth to sweare thus muche that her Highnesse is the onely supreme gouernour of this Realme and of all other her Highnesse dominions and Countries according as the expresse woordes are in the beginning of the sayde Othe And offreth yet furder to sweare That her Highnesse hath vnder God the souerainetie and rule ouer all manner of persons borne within these her Highnes realmes of what estate either Ecclesiasticall or Temporall soeuer they be To this the B. of Winchester answereth that this beyng one chiefe entent of the Othe as is graunted whosoeuer denieth the chiefe parte of the Othe what soeuer in wordes he pretende in his deedes denieth withall the chiefe entent therof But M. Feckenham doth thus Ergo How soeuer by woordes he would seeme to tender her Maiesties safetie his deedes declare his meanyng to be cleane contrarie The Minor that M. Feck denieth the principall parte of the Othe he proueth thus The principallest parte of the Othe is the Q. Highnes supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall so well as Temporall but about this M. Feck dalieth with dominions and persons denieth the causes which is the matter it selfe wherein the gouernance doth consist Ergo He denieth the chiefest parte of the Othe The Maior that the gouernance in Ecclesiasticall causes is the chiefest thing that the Othe doth purporte is euident The Minor as it appereth by this nice daliance of M. Feck so the B. furder proueth it by this his treatise by his deepe sighes grones desiring a change and ascribing to the Pope this principall parte of the Othe M. St. to counterblast these the B. arguments bloweth apace with bothe his chéekes With the one breathing out dispitefully all riffe raffâ—… that he coulde gleane togither to deface as he thought the protestantes with disobedience With the other he laboreth to qualifie the disobedience of the Papists namely of M. Feckenham But before these two partes wherein the most of his replie consisteth he prefixeth yet one page declaring first that this parcell of the Othe is no parte of the Princes royall power and wherefore the Papists refuse the same First saith he There haue bene many kings in this realme before our time that haue raigned vertuously quietly prosperously most honorably and most victoriously which neuer dreamed of this kinde of supremacie and yet men of such knowledge that they could soone espie wherein their authoritie was empayred and were of such courage and stoutnesse that they would not suffer at the Popes handes or at any other any thing done derogatorie to their Royall power This argument standeth vpon the opinioÌ„ of Princes heretofore and is framed thus What soeuer the noble and prosperous Kinges to fore tooke to be so or tooke not to be so the same was and is so or was not and is not so But many noble and prosperous Kings heretofore tooke this kinde of supremacie to be no parte of their royall power Ergo It was not nor is any parte thereof The Maior which God wote is very fonde and weake he would furnishe and strengthen with their wisedome and stoutnesse if it had bâ—…ne iniuriouâ—… to their authoritie they were so wise they could soone espie it were so stoute they would not suffer it But who seeth not that they could not very soone espie it in that palpable darknesse of poperie and that worldly politike wisedome is no good proofe of soone espying the spirituall wisdome of God and his worde and of their dutie in setting forth thereof This knowledge was not so clerely espied then as thanks be to God now it is being pulled froÌ„ vnder the bushell wherewith it was couered and the Angel of darknesse being stripped out of that shape of the Angell of light that when he was cladde withall be bleared many wise Princes eyes And though many of them were coragious stoute yea espied to what belonged vnto them attempted also to get it yet who seeth not that the Popes tirannie ouermatched them And yet suche Princes were there many wise stoute and vertuouse that dreamed not as you say but well saw this their authoritie and tooke it on them and withstood the Popes vsurpation Which improueth your Maior that ye would séeme to cary away so cléere And withall ouerturneth your argument by the like Some Princes thought it was no parte of their royall power Ergo it was not Some Princes thought it was parte of their royall power Ergo it was Neyther of these argumentes ye sée doth holde for still the matter is where it was who thought so or who
the sonnes of strangers shall build vp thy walles Kings shall serue thee And to this he addeth the other sentence in the same Chap. And the sonnes of them that afflicted thee shall come to thee humbly and shall bowe themselues euen to the plantes of thy feete eueÌ„ all they that dispised thee and call thee the citie of the Lorde Sion of the holy Israell Had you set the sentence downe thus farre you had marred al Maister Saunders â–ª For then you had bewrayed your wresting of this vnto the Bishops And had you set downe all the chapter you had shewed suche inconueniences in vnderstanding this glory of the Church and seruice of Princes in the literall sense and after a worldly fashion that you must néedes haue confessed all these things to haue other spirituall meanings Which the Iewes not marking in these and such like prophecies of the kingdome of the Messias and the glory of Sion but taking the same in the bare sense of the words as you doe were so sotted on a worldly glory kingdome that they quite dispised the pouertie of Christ and to this day dispise it looking for a Messias that as they sansie shall raigne in al worldly pompe and subdue all kingdomes and people to him and therefore they scrape vp money so fast to helpe him And so you Papists in these prophecies of the kingdom of Christ and the glory of his Church haue as grosse vnderstanding as the Iewes and dispising the simplicitie of the Gospell nor beholdyng the spirituall ornamentes of the spouse of Christ thinke the worship of God lyeth in suche outwarde glory And hearing of obedience seruice of Kings to Christ and to his Church thinke it consistes in this that Kings muste sweare to you to renounce their kingdomes and holde them of the Pope and be obedient to him and he his Prelats must florishe in all worldly pompe and ryches Is not this the Iewes error vp and downe howbeit in oppressing of Kings you are worse than the Iewes and in seâ—…ing 〈◊〉 honor here verie CerinthiaÌ„s and shall neuer haue it else where excepte you forsake your errors Your third sentence Luk. 10. he that dispiseth you dispiseth me as it maketh nothing for you being nothing suche as those were whoÌ„ Christ did sende so being vnderstood of those that are in deede sent of Christe is nothing to this purpose We graunt that no godly ministers ought to be dispised And if they be Christ their sender is dispised But as they ought not in their calling to be dispised of the Prince so no more ought the Prince to be dispised of them much lesse to be troden vnder their féete and their kingdomes to be taken from them as your Popes haue vsed them and you woulde haue theÌ„ here be spoiled Wherby it appéereth that you are not such as Christ doth sende but are of Sathans sending to bréede contempts seditioÌ„s treasons against Princes to maintain your pride and carnall pleasures of whome Saint Iude did prophecie that defiling your fleshe you despise authoritie râ—…yle on the Maiestie of your Soueraignes Your fourth sentence Mat. 16. of Christ saying to Peter Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke will I build my Churche and the gates of hell shall not preuaile againste it is altogether besides the matter It is your chiefe place wrested for your Popes vsurpatioÌ„ but I sée not how it is brought in here against the Princes authoritie except you will make a kings estate to be the gates of hell But as the Princes estate is the ordinaunce of God so I rather thinke the attempte to depose the Prince to be if not the gates of hell â–ª yet one of the readiest wayes to hell as we haue example of Core Dathan and Abiron that went not by the gate nor by the posterne but were swallowed vp and toombled in quicke to hell And although the rebellious Papists go not downe that wayes yet shall they be sure to come to hell and I thinke rebellion be one of the broadest gates that hell hath for Papists on a plompe to enter Nowe that M. Samders hath as he thinketh with thesâ—… texts confirmed the Bishops refusall of Baptising the king he will admitte the Bishop will Baptise him and see what inconuenience shall ensue For saith he if the Bishop will baptise him whom he heareth by name saying that he will not submit his Diademe to Christ or that is all one he not will make his kingdom subiect to the ministers of Christ euen in the cause of faith where is that obedience of faith which the Apostles were sent to procure in all nations is it meete that he which denounceth that he will not want his empire for no fault at all should notwithstanding be armed with the name of a Christian and with the sacramentes of Christ to lay the greater ambushments against his Church for who doubteth that there is greater daunger of the domesticall than of the foraigne enemie Surely M. Saunders I am of your opinioÌ„ in this last senteÌ„ce Out of doubt there is greater dauÌ„ger of the domesticall than of the foraigne enimie We sée the apparaÌ„t experience in your Pope that is so much the more perilous enimie to the ChristiaÌ„ faith as he preteÌ„deth to be the Uicar of Christ the seruant of the seruaÌ„ts of God a father of fathers in Christes Church for so his name Papa signifieth is in dede a robber of Christs glory a hider of Christs Gospell a setter vp of his owne decrees a spoyler of all kings and kingdomes a begniler of the people vnder a shew of holinesse an Angel of darknesse shyning like an Angell of light a rauening wolfe in a shéepes clothing a child of perdition himself and pretending to saue other from perdition the man of sin calling himself a god There is greater dauÌ„ger of such a puppet of the deuill thus disguised like a God than is of the heathen thaÌ„ is of the Iewes than is of Mahomet than is of the greate Turke than is of the Deuill hymselfe And the like greater daunger is of all dissemblyng Papistes in the Courtes and Realmes of protestant Princes than is of open Papists apparant enemies I beseech God they may be loked vnto remoued froÌ„ such places that there may be lesse danger of theÌ„ As for this Prince and Byshop that M. Saunders maketh his presupposals vpon there is farre greater daunger to the Church of God in this Byshop than in this Prince For first the Prince not of compulsion but of his owne voluntarie not of crafte or malice or any other sinister affection but of good hearte and méere deuotion for so king Lucius and Clodoueus did commeth to the Byshop to be baptized and humbly offereth to acknowledge the faithe of Christe What danger is here towarde the Church of Christ by this good Princes offer or not rather gret benefite to the Church
of Christe to haue so mightie a Realme as Englande or Fraunce to become Christian by this offer why is not this offer taken for sooth the B. refuseth it Is not here a great iniurie offered to Christs Church by this B but whie doth the B. thus bycause the Prince will not promise obedience to the Prelates and to renounce his kingdome if he swarue from his obedience to them Is this a sufficient cause for want of obedience to the Prieste to defeate Chryste of his obedience Nay say you he made an exception that he vvoulde not submit his Diademe to Christ. By your leaue M. Saunders there you say not true Loke on your own presupposall once again yea on the words you made the Prince to speake whiche althoughe they were of your owne deuising for you neuer I suppose heard or read of Prince desirous to be baptized that spake on that fashion you do but tell the Princes tale to your aduantage yet finde you no such wordes in the wordes that you speake for him yea he speaketh the contrarie in offering to acknowledge the faith of Christ. But say you he would not submit his Diademe make his kingdome subiecte in the cause of faithe to the Ministers of Christ and that is all one vvyth denying to submit his Diademe to Christ. Yea Master Sanders were it admitted ye were ministers of Christ is Christ you al one the submissioÌ„ to Christ to his ministers al one Backare M. Saâ—… there is a great difference And yet Chryst requireth no submission of Diademes or subiection of kingdoms in such sort vnto him that he wold haue kings resigne them vp to him and he woulde take them no he neuer vsed that practise He might haue had such kingdomes if he had list but he refused them as your selfe before haue confessed Althoughe your Pope will haue kings resigne their kingdomes vnto him and he will take them and ruffle in greater pompe than any king vseth to doe Whiche argueth playnely that he is not Christes minister And therefore the king hardyly may refuse his vnlawfull demaunde that he woulde in the name of Christ extort as Christes officer which his master Christe both refused himselfe and forbad in his ministers And therefore the Prince dothe Chryste no iniurie bycause he will not bring his kingdome thrall to a false Prieste pretending to be Christes Minister béeing indéede the Minister of the tempter that offereth worldly kingdomes But say you hee muste make his kingdome subiecte to them in the cause of faith As though the cause of faith were hindered if the King made not his kingdome subiecte to the Priestes where as this were the reddiest way bothe to destroye the kingdome and the faith No Master Saunders the faithe of Chryste was neuer more sincere than when the Ministers of Chryst were obedient subiectes to their kings And the cause of faythe was neuer more weakened and corrupted than sithe Priestes haue wrong themselues out of their kings subiections and that the Popes haue made the Kings sweare obedience vnto them But Maister Saunders whines at this crying out vvhere is the obedience of faith that Christ sent his Apostles to procure in all the vvorlde You do well Master Saunders to aske vvhere it is for surely it is not with you nor in all your Popishe kingdome except here and there lurking and dare not shewe hir head for feare your Popishe Inquisitors woulde gette hir by the polle The obedience of fayth was frée when Priests were subiectes and since Priestes became Princes they haue taken hir captiue and exiled hir and done all that they coulde to haue killed hir But she is escaped your hands and requicouereth that libertie that the Apostles procured in all nations for hir And she doth so much the better bicause she rereth not worldly subiection of Princes but letteth Princes kéepe the estate of their kingdomes and requireth not onely obedience to hir in a more spirituall submission Whiche the more Princes yelde vnto hir they bring not their kindomes into more slauerie but into more libertie renowne and honour So that I truste shortely they will bring the Pope and his proude Prelates to their olde obedience againe Whie saye you this is to arme Princes agaynste the Church Nay Master Saunders it is rather to strengthen the Church to let Princes haue that armor that is due vnto them What say you to lette them doe vvhat they vvill and for nothing they shall doe to saye they vvill not leaue their Empire No bodie Master Saunders giueth Princes authoritie to do what they will. The authoritie that is giuen them is onely to doe good Their vvill must not be what they will but what Lawe vvill It is not with them as it is wyth your Pope Sic volo sic Iubeo stet pro ratione voluntas Thus I vvill and thus I commaunde my vvyll shall stande in steade of reason The Law is not wyth them in scrinio pectoris in the cofer of the brest as your Pope sayth it is in his I graunt there are Princes that doe thus but that is not their dutie Neither do Princes make a profession as you say that for nothing they will giue ouer their authoritie nor it is required of them nor presupposed But their duetie in their officâ—… is required and it is presupposed they will continue therein Which if they do not but breake promise shall the subiectes depose them or the Byshops depriue them by whiche rule they may quickly set vpon the Prince for any enormitie in ciuil matters too for he promised to minister iustice to al meÌ„ but he promised to none to giue vp his crowne if he did not Yea though he had made them some suche expresse promise also and brake it yet coulde no Byshop nor any other priuate person attempte to depose him for the breach thereof but commit the vengeance to god But this Prince that here is presupposed offereth inough vnto the Bishop which if he refuse not the Prince but the Byshop endamageth the Church of Christ. Nowe Master Saunders presupposing in this supposall that he hath clearely euicted the case where the Byshop by expresse wordes maketh this condition with the king he will pursue his victorie that he thinketh he hath gotten and proue that the king hath promised and is bounde euen as muche where the Byshoppe at his baptisme saithe no suche wordes vnto him But if so be saith he all men vvill confesse that no Byshop can giue baptisme vvithout great sinne to that king vvhom he seeth so proude then truely although the Byshop by negligence or forgetfulnesse shall say nothing hereof vnto the king notvvithstanding suche is the obedience that the king himselfe giueth vnto the Gospell of Christe vvhen he maketh himselfe a member of him and desireth of him to be saued that vvill hee nill hee this promise is contained in that facte that he shall minister vnto Christ and to the