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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56468	A conference about the next succession to the crown of England divided into two parts : the first containeth the discourse of a civil lawyer, how and in what manner propinquity of bloud is to be preferred : the second containeth the speech of a temporal lawyer about the particular titles of all such as do, or may, pretend (within England or without) to the next succession : whereunto is also added a new and perfect arbor and genealogy of the descents of all the kings and princes of England, from the Conquest to the present day, whereby each mans pretence is made more plain ... / published by R. Doleman.	Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.; Allen, William, 1532-1594.; Englefield, Francis, Sir, d. 1596?	1681 (1681)	Wing P568; ESTC R36629	283,893	409

People and by help principally of Henry Newborow Earl of Warwick that dealt with the Nobility for him and Maurice Bishop of London with the Clergy for that Anselm Archbishop of Canterbury was in banishment Besides this also it did greatly help his cause that his elder Brother Robert to whom the Crown by right appertained was absent again this second time in the War of Jerusalem and so lost thereby his Kingdom as before Henry having no other Title in the World unto it but by Election and Admission of the People which yet he so defended afterwards against his said Brother Robert that came to claim it by the Sword and God did so prosper him therein as he to●k his said elder Brother Prisoner and so kept him for many Years until he dyed in Prison most pitifully But this King Henry dying left a Daughter behind him named Mawde or Mathilde which being married first to the Emperour Henry the V. he dyed without issue and then was she married again the second time to Geffry Plantagenet Earl of Anjow in France to whom she bare a Son named Henry his Grandfather caused to be declared for Heir Apparent to the Crown in his Days but yet after his decease for that Stephen Earl of Bollogne born of Adela Daughter to William the Conquerour was thought by the State of England to be more fit to Govern and to defend the Land for that he was at Mans age then was Prince Henry a Child of Maude his Mother he was admitted and Henry put back and this chiefly at the perswasion of Henry Bishop of Winchester Brother to the said Stephen as also by the Solicitation of the Abbot of Glassenbury and others who thought belike they might do the same with good Conscience for the good of the Realm though the event proved not so well for that it drew all England into Factions and Divisions for avoiding and ending whereof the States some Years after in a Parliament at Wal●ingford made an agreement that Stephen should be Lawful King during his Life only and that Henry and his Off-spring should succeed him and that Prince William King Stephen's Son should be deprived of his Succession to the Crown and made only Earl of Norfolk thus did the State dispose of the Crown at that time which was in the Year of Christ 1153. To this Henry succeeded by Order his Eldest son then living named Richard and sirnamed Cordelyon for his Valor but after him again the Succession was broken For that John King Henry's youngest Son to wit younger Brother to Richard whom his Father the King had left so unprovided as in jest he was called by the French Jean sens terre as if you would say S r John Lacke Land This man I say was after the death of his Brother Admitted and Crowned by the States of England and Arthur Duke of Britain Son and Heir to Geffery that was elder brother to John was against the ordinary course of Succession excluded And albeit this Arthur did seek to remedy the matter by War yet it seemed that God did more defend this Election of the Commonwealth than the right Title of Arthur by Succession for that Arthur was overcome and taken by King John though he had the King of France on his side and he dyed pitifully in prison or rather as most Authors do hold he was put to death by King John his Uncles own hands in the Castle of Roan thereby to make his Title of Succession more clear which yet could not be for that as well Stow in his Chronicle as also Matthew of Westminster and others before him do write that Geffrey besides this Son left two Daughters also by the Lady Constance his Wife Countess and Heir of Britaine which by the Law of England should have succeeded before John but of this small account seemed to be made at that day Some years after when the Barons and States of England misliked utterly the Government and proceeding of this King John they rejected him again and chose Luys the Prince of France to be their King and did swear Fealty to him in London as before hath been said and they deprived also the young Prince Henry his Son that was at that time but eight years old but upon the death of his Father King John that shortly after insued they recalled again that sentence and admitted this Henry to the Crown by the name of King Henry the III. and disanulled the Oath and Allegiance made unto Luys Prince of France and so King Henry Reigned for the space of 53. years afterwards the longest Reign as I think that any before or after him hath had in England Moreover you may know that from this King Henry the third do take their first beginning the two branches of York and Lancaster which after fell to so great contention about the Crown Into which if we would enter we should see plainly as before hath been noted that the best of all their titles after the deposition of King Richard the second depended on this authority of the Commonwealth for that as the People were affected and the greater part prevailed so were their titles either allowed confirmed altered or disanulled by Parliaments and yet may not we well affirm but that either part when they were in possession and confirmed therein by these Parliaments were lawful Kings and that God concurred with them as with true Princes for Government of their People For if we should deny this point as before hath been noted great inconveniencis would follow and we should shake the States of most Princes in the World at this day as by examples which alreay I have alledged in part may appear And with this also I mean to conclude and end this discourse in like manner affirming that as on the one side propinquity of Bloud is a great preheminence towards the attaining of any Crown so yet doth it not ever bind the Commonwealth to yield thereunto if weightier Reasons should urge them to the contrary neither is the Commonwealth bound always to shut her Eyes and to admit at hap-hazard or of necessity every one that is next by Succession of Bloud as Belloy falsly and fondly affirmeth but rather she is bound to consider well and maturely the Person that is to enter Whether he be like to perform his duty and charge committed unto him or no for that otherwise to admit him that is an enemy or unfit is but to destroy the Common-wealth and him together This is my opinion and this seemeth to me to be conform to all Reason Law Religion Piety Wisdom and Policy and to the use and custom of all well governed Common-wealths in the World Neither do I mean hereby to prejudice any Princes pretence or Succession to any Crown or Dignity in the World but rather do hold that he ought to enjoy his Preheminence but yet so that he be not prejudiciae thereby to the whole

body which is ever to be respected more then any one Person whatsoever Belloy or other of his opinion do say to the contrary Thus said the Civilian and being called upon and drawn to a new matter by the question that ensueth he made his last discourse and conclusion of the whole matter in manner following CHAP. IX What are the principal points which a Common-wealth ought to respect in admitting or excluding of any Prince that pretendeth to succeed wherein it is handled largely also of the diversity of Religion and other such Cases AFter the Civilian had alledged all these examples of Succession altered or rejected by publick Authority of Commonwealths and of the allowance and approbation and good success which for the most part God seems to have given unto the same one of the Company brake forth and said That this point appeared so evident unto him as no doubt in the World could be made thereof I mean Whether this thing in it self be lawful or no To alter sometimes the course of Succession seeing that all Commonwealths of Christendom had done it so often only he said that it remained somewhat doubtful unto him whether the causes alledged in these mutations and changes before-mentioned were always sufficient or no For that sometimes they seemed to him but weak and slender as when for example the Vncle was preferred before the Nephews for that he was a Man and the other Children which cause and reason hath oftentimes been alledged in the former examples both of Spain France and England As also when the younger or Bastard Brother is admitted and the elder and Legitimate Excluded for that the one is a Warrier and the other not and other such like causes are yielded said he in the Exclusions before-rehearsed which yet seems not sometimes weighty enough for so great an Affair To this answered the Civilian That according to their Law both Civil and Canon which thing also he affirmed to be founded on great reason it is a matter most certain that he who is Judge and ought to give the sentence in the thing it self is also to judge of the cause for thereof is he called Judge And if he have authority in the one good reason he should also have power to discern the other so as if we grant according to the form and proofs That the Realm or Commonwealth hath power to admit or put back the Prince or pretender to the Crown Then must we also confess that the same Commonwealth hath Authority to judge of the lawfulness of the cause and considering further that it is in their own affair and in a matter that hath his whole beginning continuance and substance from them alone I mean from the Commonwealth for that no Man is King or Prince by institution of nature as before hath been declared but every King and Kings Son hath his dignity and preheminence above other men but authority only of the Commonwealth Who can affirm the contrary said the Civilian But that God doth allow for a just and sufficient cause in this behalf the only will and judgment of the weal publick it self supposing always as in reason we may that a whole Realm will never agree by orderly way of judgment for of this only I mean and not of any particular Faction of private men against their Heir Apparent to Exclude or put back the next Heir in Bloud and Succession without a reasonable cause in their sight and consure And seeing that they only are to be Judges of this case as now I have said we are to presume that what they determine is just and lawful for the time and if at one time they should determine one thing and the contrary at another as they did often in England during the contention between York and Lancaster and on other like occasions what can a private Man judge otherwise but that they had different reasons and motions to lead them at different times and they being properly Lords and Owners of the whole business committed unto them It is enough for every particular man to subject himself to that which his Common-wealth doth in this behalf and to obey simply without any further inquisition except he should see that open injustice were done therein or God manifestly offended and the Realm indangered Open injustice I call said he when not the true Commonwealth but some Faction of wicked Man should offer to determin this matter without lawful authority of the Realm committed to them and I call manifest offence of God and danger of the Realm when such a Man is preferred to the Crown as is evident that he will do what lyeth in him to the prejudice of them both I mean both of Gods glory and the publick Wealth as for example if a Turk or Moor as before I have said or some other notorious wicked Man or Tyrant should be offered by Succession or otherwise to govern among Christians in which cases every man no doubt is bound to resist what he can for that the very end and intent for which all Government was first ordained is herein manifestly impugned Thus the Civilian discoursed and the whole Company seemed to like very well thereof for that they said his opinion appeared both prudent and pious and by this occasion it came also presently in question What were the true causes and principal points which ought to be chiefly regarded as well by the Commonwealth as by every particular Man in this great action of furthering or hindering any Prince towards a Crown And they said unto the Civilian that if he would discuss in like manner this point unto them it would be a very apt and good conclusion to all his former Speeches and Discourses which having been of the authority that well publicks have over Princes Titles this other of the causes and considerations that ought to lead them for use and exercise of the same authority would fall very fit and necessary for the up-shot of all Hereunto the Civilian answered that he well saw the fitness and importance of the matter and therefore that he was content to speak a word or two more thereof Notwithstanding that much had been said already therein to wit in all those points which had been disputed about the end of Government and why it was appointed which end said he seing it is as largely hath been proved before to defend preserve and benefit the Commonwealth here hence that is from this consideration of the Wel-publick are to be deduced all other considerations of most importance for discerning a good or evil Prince For that whosoever is most likely to defend preserve and benefit most his Realm and subjects he is most to be allowed and desired as most conform to the end for which Government was ordained And on the contrary side he that is least like to do this deserveth least to be preferred and here quoth he you see doth enter also that consideration mentioned

our Witness at the Last Day to condemn or deliver us as before I have said he must needs sin grievously or damnably as the Apostle here saith who committeth any thing against his own Conscience though otherwise the thing were not only indifferent but very good also in it self for that of the doers part there wanteth no malice or will to sin seeing he doth that which he apprehendeth to be naught though in it self it be not And now to apply all this to our purpose for England and for the matter we have in hand I affirm and hold that for any man to give his help consent or assistance towards the making of a King whom he judgeth or believeth to be faulty in Religion and consequently would advance either no Religion or the wrong if he were in Authority is a most grievous and damnable sin to him that doth it of what side soever the Truth be or how good or bad soever the Party be that is preferred For if S. Paul have pronounced so absolutely and plainly in the place before alledged that even in eating of a piece of Meat it is damnable for a man to discern and yet eat what may we think will it be in so great and important a matter as the making of a King is for a man to dissemble or do against his own Conscience and Judgment that is to say to discern and judge that he is an Infidel or Heretick or wicked man or Atheist or erroneous in Religion and yet to further his Advancement and Government over Christians where he shall be able to pervert infinite and to pull down all Honour and Service due unto God and whether he do this evil afterwards or no yet shall I be guilty of all this for that knowing and perswading my self that he is like or in disposition to do it yet for fear flattery carelesness kindred emulation against others vain pretence of Title lack of Zeal to God's Cause or for other the like passions or temporal respects I do favour further or sooth him in his pretences or do not resist him when it lieth in my power by all which I do justly make my self guilty of all the evils hurts miseries and calamities both temporal and spiritual which afterwards by his evil Government do or may ensue for that I knowing him to be such a one did notwithstanding assist his Promotion And thus much now for matter of Conscience but if we consider Reason of State also and worldly Policy it cannot be but great folly and oversight for a man of what Religion soever he be to promote to a Kingdom in which himself must live one of a contrary Religion to himself for let the Bargains and Agreements be what they will and fair promises and vain hopes never so great yet seeing the Prince once made and settled must needs proceed according to the Principles of his own Religion it followeth also that he must come quickly to break with the other Party though before he loved him never so well which yet perhaps is very hard if not impossible for two of different Religions to love sincerely but if it were so yet so many jealousies suspicions accusations calumniations and other aversions must needs light upon the Party that is of different Religion from the State and Prince under whom he liveth as not only he cannot be capable of such Preferments Honours Charges Governments and the like which men may deserve and desire in their Commonwealths but also he shall be in continual danger and subject to a thousand molestations and injuries which are incident to the condition and state of him that is not currant with the course of his Prince and Realm in matters of Religion and so before he be aware he becometh to be accounted an enemy or backward man which to remedy he must either dissemble deeply and against his own Conscience make shew to favour and set forward that which in his heart he doth detest which is the greatest Calamity and Misery of all other though yet many times not sufficient to deliver him from Suspicion or else to avoid this everlasting perdition he must break withal the temporal Commodities of this Life and leave the Benefits which his Countrey and Realm might yield him and this is the ordinary end of all such men how soft and sweet soever the beginnings be And therefore to conclude at length all this tedious Speech wherewith I fear me I have wearied you against my will seeing there be so great Inconveniences and Dangers both Temporal and Eternal and in respect both of God and man Body and Soul as hath been declared to advance a Prince of contrary Religion to the Crown and considering that in England there is so great diversity of Religions as the World knoweth between these Parties and Factions that have to pretend or admit the next Prince after her Majesty that now is calling to mind also the great Liberty Scope and Authority which the Commonwealth hath in admitting or rejecting the Pretenders upon Considerations be their Right of Succession never so plain or clear as before hath been shewed and laying finally before our eyes the manifold and different Acts of Christian Realms before mentioned in this Affair all these things I say being laid together you may see whether I had reason at the beginning to think and affirm that it was a doubtful Case who should be our next Prince after the Queens Majesty that now sitteth at the Stern and if beyond all this that I have said our Friend the common Lawyer here present shall prove also as at the first entrance he promised that among such as do or may pretend of the Blood Royal at this day their true Succession and next propinquity by Birth is also uncertain and disputable then is the matter made thereby much more ambiguous and God only knoweth who shall prevail and to him only is the matter to be commended as far as I see and with this I make an end thanking you most heartily for your patience and craving pardon for that I have been too long or for any other fault that in this Speech I have committed The End of the First PART THE PREFACE OF THE Second Part. THe Civilian had no sooner ended his Discourse but all the Company being most desirous to hear what the Temporal Lawyer had prepared to say about the several Titles of the present Pretenders to the Crown of England began with one accord to request him earnestly for the performance of his promised Speech in that behalf who shewing himself neither unwilling nor unready for the same told them that he was content to yield to their desires but yet with one condition which was that he would take in hand this matter with the same asseveration and protestation with the Civilian in some occasions had used before him and it liked him well to wit that having to speak in this Discourse of many Princes Peers

not of the House of Lancaster The King of Scots forrain born The controversie about forrain birth How strangers may inherit Reasons why the statute toucheth not one case The Crown not holden by allegiance 5. Reason King Henrys Testament against the King of Scots Answers to the King's Testament The King of Scots excluded by the statute of association Joyning of England and Scotland together Polyd. lib 17. in vit Edw. l. Inconveniences of bringing Strangers into England A Consideration of Importance Polyd. Hist Ang. l. 8. 9. Example of Spain Garibay l. 29. c. 42. An. Dom. 1207. Example out of Portugal Garibay l. 34. c. 38. An. Dom. 1383. S●ow pa. 4. 54 59 90 76. Of ●he 〈◊〉 of Scotland Of the title of Lady Arabella An English Woman Against Arabella Not of the House of Lancaster The Testament of King Henry The countess of Darby nearer by a degree Illegitim●tion by ●●s●ardy The Testimony of the L. William Howard Other reasons of 〈◊〉 against Arab●l● 〈…〉 Polyd. l. 12. Garibay l. 12. c. 42. ● The Issue of Charles Brandon Issue of Lady Frances Stow an 7. Edon 6. The Issue of the Lady Katharine The Issue of Lady Eleanor Allegations of the Houses of Darby and Hartford the one against the other Charles Brandon had a Wife alive First Bastardy against the Issue of Hartford Stow in vit Edward An. 1553. 2 Bastardy 3 Bastardy The fourth Bastardy common to both Families of Suffolk The Answer of t●ose of Hartford to the foresaid Bastardies Of the marriage between the Earl of Hartford and the Lady Katharine Gray How the second Son of the Earl of Hartford may be legitimate Allegations of the House of Darby Why the Earl of Huntington●● House is 〈◊〉 to be of the House of Claren●e Issue of t●● House of Cl●rence Issue of ●i● Geffrey Poole The interest and pretence of the Earl of Huntington Objections against the Earl ●f Huntingt●n Restitution may be in bl●●d without restitution of dignity The Pretence of the Pooles against Huntington Objections of Religion The House of Britany The course of Inheritance in the Crown of France First pretence of the Infanta to England Polyd. in vit Guil. Ru●● Second pretence of the Infanta of Spain Pretence to Aquitain Polyd in vit Johan Garib in vit Alfons Pretences to England by Lady Blanch. Stow in vit Johannis Garib l. 12 c. 38. Pretence by Arthur Duke of Britany Belfor l 3. c. 71. Hist. Fran. Election of Lewis VIII to be King of England Po●yd l. 5. Hist. Angl. Hollings Stow in vit Johannis Belfor l. 2. c. 67. Girrard l. 5. Histor. Baudin an 891. chron France Pretence by Descent from Henry III. Admission by Composition Objections against the Infanta's pretence The Princes of Portugal are of the House of Lancaster The Issue of Lady Philippa Qu. of Portugal Issue of ●●hn of Gaunt 〈…〉 ●ee the Ar●●● 〈◊〉 ●he 〈…〉 Book The point of difficulty Issue of Catharine Swinford The principal question Answer Dutchy of Lancaster The Crown An example of Edward the sixth and of the Prince of Spain 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 of Portugal The Dukedom of Lancaster The Legiti●●●ion ●f C●th●rin Swinf●rds Chil●●●● no● lawf●l Stow in vit Ri●har 2. Garibay h●st Portugal l. 35. cap. 4. Note this example ●tow in vit Henrici 2. John of Gauntes Marriage with Catherine Swinford helpeth not the L●gitima●ion The Question between Lady Philippa and John of Somerset The Question between the Nephews 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 Portugal The proper Interest of King Henry the 4th cannot descend to King Henry the 7th Who are the Princes of Portugal and how they pretend ●o England The Issue of King Emmanuel of Portugal Issue of K. John the 3. of Portugal K. Lewis Father of Don Antonio K. Henry Cardinal The pretence of the Qunen Mother of France to Portugal Five Pretenders of the Crown of Portugal The contention about the Succession of Portugal Attorneys sent to Portugal A Sentence of Ill●●●imation against Don Antonio Writers of this Controversy The Causes why Don Antonio was pronounced Illegitimate Don Antonio his pretence to England Three principal pretenders of Portugal Pretences of the Duke of Parma For the Dutchess of Bragansa Representation excluded A Reply for ●he Du●e o● Pa●ma King Philip 's pretence to Portugal Divers allegations for King Philip. Hieron Frak● Jo. P●et Vipe● anus The case of pretence of the House of Portugal to England An objection with the answer Objections against the Pretenders of Portugal Answers Note this By what Title King Henry VII did enter About foreign power in England About Foreign Government The occasion of the next chapter about Foreign Government Reasons against foreign Government Polit. Arist. Demosthenis Philippicae in Aeschines Attempts to deliver Realms from strangers Quint. Curt. l. 5 6. de gest Alex. Vespere Sicilianae an 1265. Leand. in descript Siciliae Polyd. l. 8. Hollings in vit Camiti The rage of the French against the English The conclusion against Strangers Authority of Scripture against strangers Deut. 15. The answer in defence of foreign Government The effect of Governments to be considered and not the Governours An Example Little importeth the Subject of what Country his Governour is so he is good 1 Reg. 12. Not the Country but the good Government importeth Note these examples Who are properly Strangers Divers manners of being under Strangers To be undder strangers by Conquest How Conquerours do proceed towards ●he Conquered Polydor Virg. l. 8. Hist. Angliae Clemensy of the Romans Lib. 1. Macchab. ●ap 8. Strangers most favoured in wise Governments Gascoynes Britons Candians States o● Italy The condition of the Irish under the English Of the States of Flanders Girard du Ha●lan l. 18. an 1381. Prosperity of Flanders under the House of Austria In Gui●ciard nella descrittione delli pasi bassi The Authority of the Flomings at home The Indulgence mi●d ●o offenders 〈◊〉 ●landers The Spaniard punisheth less in Italy than nearer home V●ceroyes do give account of their Government Much slaughter of Nobility in England Execution of Nobility by Henry the eight Under King Edward and Queen Mary States governed happily by foreign Princes Old afflictions of Naples and Millain Whether a great or little Prince be better Pedro Mexio en vit de Antonio Pi●● The felicity of the Roman Government The second way of being under a foreign Prince A foreign Prince without Forces not prejudicial Note this utility of a foreign King The manner of foreign Prince more commodious for the present A third way of being under foreign Government 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 G●ve●●ent Incon●●●ence● of t●●s Government Strange Governo●●● desired in some Realm The Answer to objections against foreign Government Answer the Grecian Philosophers and Orators Demosthenes The troublsome state of the Grecian Cities Arist. l. 2. ●olit c. 1.2 ●●●wer to 〈◊〉 objection out of Deuteronomy Deut. 15. Secondary Lines Ambiguity of Prevailing Two Grounds of probability of speeding Three Religions in England The great Importance of Religion in this Action The next Change like to be difficult and why The consideration of the Protestant Party The Clergy The Council and Nobility Persons designed or favoured by the Protestant Party Foreign Friends of the Protestants Of the Party Puritan Persons affected by the Puritans External Friends Lutheran● The Puritan at home Those of the Roman Religion T●e R●man Party gr●at and w●y 1 Reg ●2 〈…〉 Friends and Allies abroad Considerations of 〈◊〉 Pretender in particular The King of Scotland Arabella The Lord Beacham and the Earl of Darby Alliance of the Earl of Darby A●●ance of the Seymers Alliance ●● the Stanleys A●l●ance of the old Countess of Darby The States of the Lord Beacham and the Earl of Darby 〈…〉 Lords The Earl of Huntington 〈◊〉 of the 〈…〉 ●unting●●● The Power of London Polydor. 24 Holingshed in vita Henrici VI. The Houses of Britain and Portugal Infanta of Spain Duke of Parma The Duke of Bragansa Power of foreign Pretenders The first Conjecture that there will be War and why Sup. c. 4. A consideration to be marked The second conjecture no main Battel probable The third Conjecture who is likest to prevail For the Infanta of Spain For the Earl of Hartfod's second Son Sup. c. 6. For the Children of the Countess of Darby Garibay l. a 5. c. 36 Polydor in rit Steph.