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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A83501	Reasons against the independant government of particular congregations: as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in this kingdome. Together with an answer to such reasons as are commonly alledged for such a toleration. Presented in all humility to the Honourable House of Commons, now assembled in Parliament. By Tho. Edvvards, minister of the Gospel.	Edwards, Thomas, 1599-1647.; England and Wales. Parliament.	1641 (1641)	Wing E233; Thomason E167_16; ESTC R21753	47,020	78

faith and consciences So Calvin on these two verses 10. 12. speakes thus But let them heare whoever give occasion of troubles to the Churches who loosen the unity of the Faith who breake peace and if they have any right understanding let them tremble at this for God doth pronounce by the mouth of Paul that no Authors of such offences shall be unpunished They teare and rend the Church about Circumcision I would have them to be cut off neither can this be condemned of cruelty as if it were against Charity for if we compare the Church with one man or a few how farre doth that outwaigh for it is cruell mercy which preferres one man or a few before the Church c. Now the Toleration desired to set up Churches independant and separated from the Churches in the Kingdome it is in it selfe a schisme a rent and a troubling disturbing of the Church so it will prove more and more and cannot be avoided according to their principles and practices hitherto a daily schisme and rent in this Church and an infinite disturbance both to the outward peace and to the faith and consciences of the people in this Kingdome The Church of England will be as much troubled by it as ever was the Church of Galatia which will appeare more fully in the following Reasons And therefore there ought to be no Toleration every one in their place ought to be against it the Magistrates Ministers and People The permitting and suffering of evill with the giving of any countenance to it when men have power to hinder it is to be partakers of their sinne 1 Tim. 5. 22. the second Epistle of John the 11. verse Qui non prohibet quando protest jubet Hee that doth not forbid when he hath power commands And let me aske the Independant Ministers a question or two Is it fitting that well meaning Christians should be suffered to goe and make Churches and then proceed to chuse whom they will for Ministers as some Taylor Felt-maker Button-maker men ignorant and low in parts by whom they shall be led into sinne and errors and to forsake the publicke assemblies where they may enjoy worthy and pretious Pastors after Gods owne heart who would feed them with knowledge and understanding If once there be a Toleration of Churches it will be thus but if they be hindered of all meetings this would be prevented So heresies also may take and spread in those separated assemblies before they can be knowne to the Magistrates and Ministers of other Churches Do not your hearts bleed within you to see and heare of this for the present in severall places and to thinke what will be hereafter O mine doth and thus if once there were a Toleration how many weake Brethren would perish for whom Christ dyed Reason II. THe toleration desired will not helpe to heale the Schismes and tents of this Church which is one speciall thing ought to be looked unto in this present reformation of the Church but will much foment and encrease it For whilst some congregations and they accounted of note both for ministers and people will not submit to the reformation and government setled by Law this will breed in the peoples mindes many thoughts Ex natura rei that this Church and government is not ordered according to the Word of God but is unlawfull else why should such men most eminent for gifts and graces as many people account them refuse to conforme to it and this will prove as great and as continued a division betweene the ministers and people of the Churches established by Law and the Churches tolerated as ever was betweene Conformists and Non-conformists about Ceremonies nay greater because these are of different Churches Congregations whereas Conformists and non-conformists held communion together in one Church though contending about these matters and that this will certainly be may be easily beleeved and foreseene upon these grounds 1. Because many of the people who yet be not in this Church way for their practise are yet much possessed with these principles of the Independant way as the onely way of God and are much looking towards it 2. The mindes of multitudes of the professors in England and especially in this City are upon all occasions very apt to fall to any way in Doctrine or Discipline that is not commonly received by the Church as accounting some singular perfection to be in that which is new and held but by a few 3. Though the Ministers of the Congregations tolerated would promise not to preach of these points in publicke nor in private to speake of them which yet they will not be tyed unto yet their people many of them both men and women are so strangely bold pragmaticall and so highly conceited of their way as the Kingdome of Christ and the onely way of Christ that what out of those principles and what by vertue of their relations in friendship kindred c. there would be continuall drawing of many and many falling to them 4. The prime principles of this Church way as namely independancie liberty power of government and rule to be in the people are mighty pleasing to flesh and blood people generally chiefely meane persons and such who have beene kept under affecting Independancie Liberty Power and Rule 5. The grant of a toleration will be made use of by them for the strengthning of their way to be the truth and will be interpreted in this sense that they had such grounds and reasons as the ablest Ministers in the Kingdome could not answer and therefore were content they should have a toleration else if they could have satisfied them what needed a toleration onely though they could not answer their Reasons and had nothing to say yet they would not come to them and this will be spoken of by their followers that we would not bee convinced though we could say nothing against it all which will as a meanes to encrease their side occasion continuall strifes divisions heart-burnings both of Ministers against Ministers and people against people so that in stead of Union and peace in the Kingdome and Church we shall have notwithstanding all reformation a greater division and rent succeede than ever before Reason III. THis toleration will not onely breede Divisions and Schismes disturbing the peace and quiet of Churches and Townes by setting them who are of different families and in more remote relations one against another but it will undoubtedly cause much disturbance discontent and divisions in the same families even betweene the nearest relations of husbands and wives Fathers and children brothers and sisters Masters and Servants The husband being of one Church the wife of another the father of one the childe of another the master of the Church established by Law the servant of the tolerated one brother of one Church and another brother of another and so all Oeconomicall relations and duties will be much disturbed when as they of one house

and the 1. yeere of Elizabeth cap. 1. where it will be found that all Jurisdiction Superiority Spirituall and Ecclesiasticall as by any Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall power or authority hath beene or may lawfully be exercised for the visitation of the Ecclesiasticall state and persons and for reformation order and correction of the same and of all manner of Errours Heresies Schismes abuses offences c. shall for ever by authority of this present Parliament be united and annexed to the Imperiall Crowne of this Realme As also that no orders nor constitutions may be enacted in the Church without the Kings assent and hence the oath of Supremacie was appointed by Law for every Ecclesiasticall person to take hence I aske the Independant men seeing they give that immediate Ecclesiasticall power to their particular Churches which the Papists doe to the Pope whether they will take the oath of Supremacie or doe acknowledge in their prayers that title of the King Defendor of the Faith c. Secondly they hold that things lawfull in themselves as for instance set formes of Prayer acknowledged by them to be lawfull yet being enjoyned by Authority are now unlawfull so that though a Forme of Prayer be lawfull yet being imposed for order uniformity that alters the case a strange paradox that things lawfull in themselves tending to Order and Peace should become unlawfull when commanded 3 They affirme that Christian Princes Magistrates who are defenders of the Faith have no more to doe in and about the Church then Heathen Princes Some of them deny also and question that received axiome that the Magistrate is custos utriusque tabulae Saying of those Kings of Judah and Israel who medled in the Church with reformation and establishment of Religion that they did it not as Kings but as types of Christ so that I leave it to better judgement whether it be safe for a Kingdome to tolerate such Churches who maintaine and vent upon all occasions such kinde of principles and as the principles so the people for a great part of them be dangerous and insufferable heady refractory proud bitter scornefull despisers of Authority who though but a few comparatively and the Lawes standing have attempted not to suffer the publicke prayers to be prayed but what with singing what with clapping on of Hats in times of prayer what with reviling and threatning of Ministers have laboured to hinder their use Now if they dare attempt such practises and things being but a few the Lawes being point blanke against them and the Lawes establishing the other what will they not doe when they shall be multiplyed and tolerated if they come once to a great head we may feare they will not tolerate the Churches and Government established by Law but what insolencies and mischiefes will follow upon their toleration not onely in Ecclesiasticall government but in Civill I leave such who are experienced men in matters of Government to fore-see and Judge of but hereafter too late to remedie but I desire rather to pray against a toleration than to Prophecy of the wofull effects of it Reason VIII THese independant men where they have power as in new England will not give a toleration for any other Ecclesiasticall Government or Churches but in their owne way they would not suffer men of other opinions in doctrine and government to live within the bounds of their patent though at the furthest bounds but have banished them They were sent to from England by some godly Ministers their brethren men otherwise approved by them as being against Ceremonies who being in danger of leaving the Land sent to know if they might have liberty according to their Consciences to goe in a Church way something differing from theirs and not in this Independant Popular Government to which question you may reade the answer they could not grant any other forme of government but one seeing there is but one way of Church government layd downe in the Word and that unchangeable and therefore they cannot yeeld to it So others of them will nottolerate or admit into fellowship the godliest Christians unlesse they will enter into Covenant professe their faith submit to their Church Orders though they would be of their Church so that these men who now would faine have a toleration in this great Kingdome will not allow any in a remote Plantation nor in one of their small particular Congregations for feare of disturbing the peace of their Church and yet would have a toleration in this Kingdome never caring to disturbe the peace and good of the three Kingdomes which would be much hazarded by it but thus partiall men are and you may observe it t is ordinary for men when they are not in place nor have no power in Church or Common-wealth and hold also Doctrines and principles contrary to what is held and established then to plead for tolerations when as the same parsons comming to be in place and to have power wil not tolerate others to set up any way different from theirs And I beleeve those present men who here are endeavouring a toleration for their Churches had they the power in their hands to settle a Government we should have no Government tolerated nor Church but the Independant way and for this see The Protestation Protested what he thinkes of our Church and of what ever Government shall be established Reason IX AToleration may be demaunded upon the same grounds for all the rigid Brownists of the Kingdom and for all the Anabaptists Familists and other Sectaries who professe t is conscience in them and in some respects upon better grounds it may be moved by them as being perswaded we are no true Church then for these Semi-Separatists nay whether may not the Papists petition to and hope to have a toleration of Religion seeing it is Conscience in many of them as well as you and if once an exemption be given from the Religion established by Law to one sort why may not others thinke to have the same priviledge and therefore if ever the dore of Tolerations should be but a little opened there would be great crouding by al sorts to enter in at it Reason X. THe granting a Toleration of this Independant way whose first fundamental principle is that two or three Saints where ever or by what meanes soever they doe arise separating themselves from the world into the fellowship of the Gospell are a Church truely gathered and that they only have an immediate and independant power from Christ their immediate head to gather and combine themselvs without expecting warrant from any Governours whatsoever upon earth to make a Church doth make way for any thing for Libertinism or for any opinion in the world that so all who fall into any Doctrine or any who like not their owne Ministers and Church Government either because they restraine them from sinne or keepe them to Gods Ordinances they may goe three or foure